From: Santiago, Santiago
Like many people, who begin in obscurity, gain a modicum of recognition for whatever reasons, Ms Pierre seem to have elevated herself to the level of being aGuru of World Opinion when it coes to the racial, social charactistics of theDominican people.
Then there are those who "jump on the bandwagon" in association and to glean a bit of the noteriety for themselves.
International Organizations have this same impetuosity for "hogging the spotlight".
Mountains out of Molehills are the results.
Written by: jeffrey, 26 Apr 2007 9:00 PM
From: nyc
BHD; very interesting....but the question remains billy, Is the DR a savage racist society? Ya slam the person and totally forget the message. Sheesh!
From: Baltimore Maryland
All of the negative comments surrounding Ms Pierre's statements, conceal the real issue, and that is racism as praticed in the DR. I think she is a hero for speaking up and
telling it" like it is"....It needs to be said and said until something is done about the rampant racism existing in that "bit of paradise".
From: Tarrytown NY
It's sad to see how one person opinion can create such a bad image and dominican who support her view should be a shamed. Last time i checked she faced racist policies in her own country. Where lighter skin rule, maybe she should go back and fight in her own country for equal treatment before she goes around spread untrue statement. They do the samething here in NY.So i don't understand why is it even an issue over there.
Written by: John, 27 Apr 2007 10:18 PM
From: NY
The Writer of this editorial is trying to incite hatred between DR and Haitians by taking Sonia Pierre's statement out of context. If you read the statement she did not accused Dominicans of being racist. She is Dominican herself. All she said was that there are savage conditions against one group for the question of color or the origin of the person. This is a true statement. The writer of this ediorial blinded by hate speaks for himself because most people do not view Dominicans as racist.
Written by: John, 29 Apr 2007 12:47 AM
From: NY
Today in the Dominican Republic, Blacks are lynched, savagely beaten, shot and even burned alive by mobs of Dominicans; just because of the color of their skin. Blacks are snatched off the streets by Dominican Police & the Dominican Army in broad daylight; tied up, shackled and chained, packed into trucks like animals, denied food and water and dropped at the Dominican border, many times; stripped naked; even the elderly.
Written by: John, 29 Apr 2007 12:54 AM
From: NY
Dominican Racism has a long history. In ONE WEEK in 1937, almost 80,000 Blacks were killed by the Dominican Army in order to “cleanse” the country of Black people. Sounding like the Ku Klux Klan the racist Dominican Government pledges to continue the roundups of Blacks despite the condemnation of Amnesty International, the U.N. Human Rights Committee, the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and the Human Rights Watch. They encourage mobs of Dominican Nationalists to act like Klansmen.
Written by: John, 29 Apr 2007 1:07 AM
From: NY
In the 1930s, Trujillo became known for his open door policies toward Jewish refugees at a time when they were being turned away from the wealthier countries, and then toward exiles from the Spanish Civil War. These are viewed by historians as public relations ploys and attempts to "whiten" the predominantly mixed-race nation, a policy called blanquismo. The latter consisted of immigration conditions that favored the arrival of white or Caucasian people over the Blacks.
Written by: John, 29 Apr 2007 1:15 AM
From: NY
In pursuing blanquismo, Trujillo allegedly ordered Dominican troops to massacre 50,000 dark-skinned Haitian sugar cane workers in 1937, an action that he claimed was a sovereign response to the Haitian government's support of exiled Dominicans working to overthrow him.
Written by: John, 29 Apr 2007 1:16 AM
From: NY
The Haitian workers were identified as immigrants, and then murdered by the truckload, if they could not pronounce the letter r in "perejil", the Spanish word for parsley; this, as a clear identification of origin empirically based on the native tongue, for Dominicans speak Spanish and Haitians speak Haitian Creole.
Written by: John, 29 Apr 2007 1:19 AM
From: NY
US Poet Laureate Rita Dove wrote of the massacre in her poem, Parsley:
There is a parrot imitating Spring
in the palae, its feathers parsley green.
Out of the swamp the cane appears ...
El General has found his word: perejil.
Who says it, lives. He laughs, teeth appearing
out of the swamp. The cane appears
in our dreams, lashed by wind and streaming.
And we lie down. For every drop of blood
there is a parrot imitating spring.
Out of the swamp the cane appears.
Written by: jlb, 29 Apr 2007 1:08 PM
From: nyc
John: 80.000 dead in one week.?i kno u have inflated those figures. International agenices put the figure at between 20-30,000 ( which is horrible enuff) but dont get the story wrong. Trujillo did nt have an open door policy to the Jews. THe Jews paid for those visas quite hansomely. (this at a time when USA was turning away jews from their doorstep) and when they arrived to DR they brought knowledge of trade and industry as is evidenced in the industries left behind in Sousa.
From: New York
The fundamental problem when it comes to Haitian-Dominican relations is the fact that Dominicans see themselves as non-blacks because of their lighter complexion and want to be seen as different,thus superior,than their neighbors.From what I've heard,a poor Dominican is not better off than a poor Haitian and most people are living in abject poverty on both sides of Hispaniola .Meanwhile,The elites on both sides are having a ball,making millions, talking about the color green as in greenback..
Written by: John, 30 Apr 2007 11:05 PM
From: NY
jlb, I apologizes for the misprint. Trujillo allegedly ordered Dominican troops to massacre 50,000 dark-skinned Haitian sugar cane workers in 1937. As for the open door policy, you mean to tell me if the Haitians pay handsomely for their visa they will not be lynch, savagely beaten, shot and even burn alive by mobs of Dominicans; just because of the color of their skin. They will not be snatch off the streets by DR Police & the DR Army in broad daylight; tied up, shackled & chained like animals.
Written by: jlb, 1 May 2007 8:51 AM
From: nyc
John: YES . I do mean that...if every black person was treated in this way in the DR quite simply there wouldnt be any people left period. 'cuz cousin everyone in the DR got a little black in them; so where do u stop once the killing begins? Its quite a slippery slope.
From: Brooklyn, New York
John you seem to forget that we dominicans were humiliated by the hatians for 22 years. Moreover, they invaded us 11 times in the 19th century. Tried to rob us of our language,our religion, and our education by shutting down the university. We have no responsibility towards haiti or haitians and when they ruled the island what did they do? If you doubt my facts read "The Dominican People a documentary history".
Written by: John, 2 May 2007 11:42 PM
From: NY
Carlos: Haiti did not invade DR 11 times because DR Identity did not exist until after its independence from Haiti. Even after that, DR annexed itself to Spain. While the Haitians fought and rid the Island of the people that annihilated the Taino Indians and enslaved the Africans on the Island, the Dominicans brought them back. Carlos FYI the Haitians abolished slavery on the entire Island when they ruled the Island and became the first Black Republic. You can't take that away.
From: Brooklyn, New York
John, The dominican republic declared its independence first from spain in 1821, about 8 weeks after haiti invaded, bringing an end to the republic. the 1844 independence declaration was the one that stuck and became permanent. Granted haiti did free the slaves of the spanish side but also committed brutal atrocities, and tried to erase our spanish identies. after 22 years of occupation haitians failed at transforming our identity which in turn fueled the rebellion!
From: Brooklyn, New York
John, so you're saying that the invasion is justified? know this, there were too many diferences between the two colonies, haiti then was much more developed. The spanish governor Jose Nunez de Caceres declared our first independece from spain on November 30, 1821. and called the island Spanish Haiti. How much freer could we have gotten????
Read about the "wonderful" occupation by haiti:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist....nican_Republic#Haitian_occupationWritten by: Samuel, 3 May 2007 7:04 PM
From: Florida
Bravo to John. Dominicans did not exist until AFTER Duarte's revolution. La Trinataria was a white organization, not a black one. "The Dominican Republic, a documentary history was referenced from books all written during the Trujillo regime, so they are tainted. The fact is that Haiti liberated the people of color all over this island. Just Duarte and everyone since him have brainwashed the people to believing otherwise.
Written by: jlb, 4 May 2007 10:12 AM
From: nyc
John : again ur history is askew. THe spanish did nt re enslave the blacks on Hispanola. They were brought over from Africa AS salves....Blackk human beings not being indigenous to the carribean. Who cares about being first? look forward John,not backwards....whats happening today is what matters.
Written by: Peter, 5 May 2007 12:33 PM
From: SD
The Hatfields & the McCoys.Back and forth living in the past while the present and the future passes them by.You people should get over it before you all perish in the mess you are creating over here.White, black, yellow, brown, red. Who cares.Everyone claims they love this country but few are working at making it better.Don't you know that while you're involved in your petty squabbles you are all exploited? It's called divide and conquer. Take a good look around you. Do you like what you see
Written by: John, 5 May 2007 5:16 PM
From: NY
Carlos: Did people on the Eastern side of the Island wanted freedom or did they just Hated the Haitians because they were Black? The way I see it is that the people on the Eastern part "freed" themselves from the Haitians who were Black then invided the Spaniards who were White back to rule the Eastern part of the Island. You tell me the logic behind the DR independence from Haiti because the Spaniards were worst then the Haitians but Dominicans annexed DR to Spain. Great Revolution!
Written by: John, 5 May 2007 7:11 PM
From: NY
jlb: I did not say the Spaniards re enslave the Blacks. The Blacks were not slaves in Africa. I said the Spaniards enslaved the Blacks. The Spaniards annihilated the Indians on the Island of Hispaniola then abducted the Kings and Queens from Africa, took them to Hispaniola and then enslaved them. FYI jlb, you can not forget history. Especially the Haitian revolution. A group of people that freed themselves from 3 oppresor (Span.,Brit.,Fr.) and then created the first Black republic.
Written by: jlb, 6 May 2007 10:17 AM
From: nyc
again john is askew in history.....The French brought over the first slaves not the spanish. and again i say to you ....who cares about whom was first.....look forward not backwards..the only ones to win from our bickering John is those who want to keep us oppressed (economically and socially).
Written by: Ivette, 7 May 2007 12:35 PM
From: New York
I know very little about Dominican/Hatian relations and nothing about Sonia Pierre. What I and other people have noticed is that dominicans appear to be anti-black, which is strange because upon looking at most dominicans you can pick up on the african features and if the women didn't have black blood, there would be no need to straighten their hair. Trujillo really did a number over there. Dominicans have so much disdain for blacks that in essence they hate themselves.
Written by: Ivette, 7 May 2007 12:46 PM
From: New York
Would dominicans welcome a large amount of dark skinned blacks from other countries to live in the Dominican Republic permanently if those people were self sufficient (no drain on the economy) or is it just the Haitians they have a problem with?
Written by: John, 7 May 2007 9:45 PM
From: NY
Ivette, I acclaim your comment and understanding of the problems between Dominicans and Haitians. From an outsider looking in, it looks like Dominicans do not welcome a large amount of dark skin blacks from other countries to live in DR permanently even if those black people were self sufficient. Dominicans are "mixed" between Whites and Blacks. They accept the White part but not the Black part. Like you said Ivette, Trujillo really proselytized the Dominicans.
From: Brooklyn
all these arguments about haiti not invading the dominican republic before its inception as a state because a dom. rep. did not ye exist is moot. are the lives snuffed out during said invasions any less relevant because the people on the spanish side of the island did not refer to themselves as dominicans? as for the seperation of the dom. rep. from the haitian state one has to see said seperation as a reaffirmation of the dominican people's desire to live as a hispanic people. (cont'd)
From: Brooklyn
the fact that elements among the dominican elite orchestrated a return to the spanish fold after seperation from haiti is a clear, if unfortunate, indication of this.Besides, one of the principle reasons for said annexation was because the before mentioned elites sincerely felt at the time that the seemingly perpetual clashes with haitian forces would eventually overwhelm the young dominican state. again, everyone fails to mention the tens of thousands of haitians who legally reside in (cont'd)
From: Brooklyn
dominican territory. one only has to got to the UTESA campus in Santiago to see myriads of young haitian men and women who are students there.most dominicans are interested in curbing ILLEGAL immigration and its consequences. the funny thing is that all these slanderous remarks about the dominican people are coming at precisely a time when the dominican state is attempting to gain international focus for its beleaguered neighbor.
From: Brooklyn
in pursuing negritude, dessalines the butcher murdered practically all the white haitians then still on the island, an act immortalized symbolically on the haitian flag, the haitian flag itself being the french tri-color with the "white" removed.Haiti is basically a state founded on racist principles. Obviously racism in Haiti itself has even deeper roots then that of its neighbor.
Written by: John, 9 May 2007 10:51 PM
From: NY
J.F.G. Valerio: According to Haitian history Dessaline did not murder "all" the white Haitians. Dessalines was not like the Sapniards who annihilated the Taino Indians off the Island of Hispanola. Dessalines proudly defended and liberated the Island of Hispanola from the people that enslaved, molested, rape, castrated, burned, butchered, lynched,and beheaded the Taino Indians and the Africans.
From: Brooklyn
John, we can rewrite novels, short stories, essays, but we cannot rewrite history. that dessalines was indeed a butcher is thoroughly documented by his contempararies and by historians ever since.did you know that he even murdered scores of blacks in order to intimidate them to work for the french after the establishment of french rule when touissant was overthrown?what a wonderful figure to elevate to the position of father of a nation.as for your contention that the spaniards (cont'd)
From: Brooklyn
eliminated all the tainos this has been proven false by the human genome project and by Dr. Martinez Cruzado who has demonstrated that the taino's genetic legacy is very real and present today in the spanish speaking caribbean.as for raping and burning maybe you might want to look into what dessalines and christophe did when the invaded the spanish part of the island in 1805.your so-called liberators are guilty of the very crimes you're rightfully castigating the spanish and french for.
Written by: jlb, 10 May 2007 7:53 PM
From: nyc
John: if Haiti isnt a racist society....why was the color white taken out of the Haitian flag?
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 10:11 AM
From: NY
jlb: The Haitian did not remove the color white out of the Haitian flag out of of hatred or racism. One must understand in a time when the Haitian won their indepence from White domination, it is fair to say they remove the white to symbolize freedom from the French and created their own flag. History has proven that the Haitians hold no ill feelings towards white people. The Haitian people are one of the nicesst people on earth. They even hold no ill feelings towards the Dominicans and DR.
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 10:28 AM
From: NY
J.F.G Valerio: Trujillo did rewrite history. He proselytized the Dominicans. The problems between the two countries exist today because Trujillo rewrote history. But, no matter how much Trujillo rewrote the DR history, the truth shall be known. I assume as an intelligent person of your background, you are fully aware of the truth.
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 10:44 AM
From: NY
History of Haiti
The island of Hispaniola, of which Haiti occupies the western third, was originally inhabited by the Taíno Arawak people. Christopher Columbus landed at Môle Saint-Nicolas on December 5, 1492, and claimed the island for Spain. Nineteen days later on Christmas Eve, 1492, the Santa Maria ran aground near the present site of Pen-island Cap-Haitien and Columbus was forced to leave 39 men, founding the settlement of La Navidad .
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 10:45 AM
From: NY
Ayiti, which means "mountainous land", is a name used by its early inhabitants, the Taino-Arawak people, who also called it Bohio, meaning "rich villages", and Quisqueya, meaning "high land".
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 10:47 AM
From: NY
The Taínos were a seafaring branch of the South American Arawaks. Taíno means "the good" or "noble" in their language. A system of cacicazgos (chiefdoms) existed, called Marien, Maguana, Higuey, Magua and Xaragua, which could be subdivided. The cacicazgos were based on a system of tribute, consisting of the food grown by the Taíno. Among the cultural signs that they left were cave paintings around the country, which have become touristic and nationalistic symbols of Haiti.
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 10:49 AM
From: NY
Xaragua is modern day Leogane, a city in the southwest.
One of the earliest leaders to fight off Spanish conquest was Queen Anacaona, a Taino princess from Xaragua who married Chief Caonabo, a Taino king (cacique) from Maguana. The two fought hard against the Europeans; she was captured by the Spanish and executed in front of her people. Other noted Taino leaders from Haiti are Chief Guacanagari, Chief Guama and Chief Hatuey (who later fled to Cuba and helped fight the Spaniards there).
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 10:51 AM
From: NY
Cacique Henri, another Taino chief, fought victoriously against the Spaniards in the Bahoruco to gain freedom for himself and his people. The town associated with this history is Anse a Pitres, near the south-eastern town of Jacmel. Most of the Taino-Arawak people are extinct, the few survivors having mixed with African slaves and European conquerors.
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 11:05 AM
From: NY
jlb, you are wrong about the French being the first one to bring slaves to the Island of Hispanola: Enslavement, harsh treatment of the natives, and especially epidemic diseases such as smallpox caused the Taino population to plummet over the next quarter-century. In response, the Spanish began to import African slaves to search for gold on the island. Spanish interest in Hispaniola waned after the 1520s, when vast reserves of gold and silver were discovered in Mexico and South America.
From: Brooklyn
John, trujillo and his policies didn't fall out of the sky.his haitian policy was a coherent articulation of anti-haitianism formulated by the intellectuals of the day in service of the regime but it was hardly new.there was antipathy toward haiti in dominican society well before trujillo. its just that trujillo managed to capitalize on these sentiments for the benefit of his regime's agenda.In any event trujillo is now seen as a monstrous criminial by most dominicans and justly so.(cont'd)
From: Brooklyn
racist ideology played no part in the formation of the dominican state as the case with haiti. In any event trujillo is not the founder of the dominican state and many of his regime's views (and indeed many of the intellectuals that served said regime) have long been discredited.not so with the other historical criminals, plunderers and murderers the island of hispaniola has produced through the years.
From: Brooklyn
John, cacique "henri" is more correctly named Enriquillo and bahoruco has nothing to do with the town of jacmel. Enriquillo's old stomping grounds lie entirely in the dominican southwest and he was not so much a cacique as he was a rebel against spanish rule. the cazigazos had already ceased to exist by enriquillo's time and indeed enriquillo was a thoroughly hispanicized indian.his band was, however, comprised of surviving indians who rebelled under his banner.
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 11:05 PM
From: NY
Francisco Del Rosario Sánchez founding father of the Dominican Republic taught himself Latin and French. He is mostly remembered as a man of action. In the proceedings that took place just before the proclamation of independence in February 27, 1844, Sánchez was voted by his peers in La Trinitaria as Commander in Arms and Chief of the Government Junta in the nascent republic. This was quite a recognition and testament to his virtues.
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 11:07 PM
From: NY
He (Francisco Del Rosario Sánchez) was 27 at the time, his social standing was clearly more humble than that of the men around him, and his black complexion struck a dissonant note among a group of mainly European descendants trying to rebel against the black republic of Haiti.
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 11:21 PM
From: NY
Pedro Santana Familias (1801-1864) was a Dominican soldier and politician born in the border community of Hincha (now in Haiti). He was the first constitutional president of the Dominican Republic. He relentlessly proceeded to arrest and/or force to exile members of La Trinitaria. The very first person that was forced out of the country was Juan Pablo Duarte, founding father of the new Dominican Republic. And he executed María Trinidad Sánchez, sister of Francisco del Rosario Sánchez.
Written by: John, 11 May 2007 11:38 PM
From: NY
Ulises Heureaux was president of the DR from 10/1/ 1882 to 10/1/1883, from 1/6 to 2/27/1887 and again from 4/30/1889 until his assassination, maintaining power between his terms. Heureaux, popularly known as Lilís, was born in Puerto Plata, the illegitimate son of a Haitian father and a mother from St. Thomas, and spoke French and English, the later with a thick creole accent. Widely distrusted as a foreigner, he was distinguished from most Dominican political leaders by his blackness.
Written by: John, 12 May 2007 12:22 AM
From: NY
J.F.G. Valerio, I disagree with you. Racist ideologies played a very big part in the formation of the Dominican State. Haiti incorporated the eastern part and proclaimed everyone on the Island Haitians, a Black Nation. Out of the Haitians the Dominican State was born. Dominicans are Negroes that speak spanish according to American people. I see you are from Brooklyn so you know how we here in the U.S feel.
From: Brooklyn
again, (read this to yourself slowly) the dominican state was formed on the desire of the inhabitants of the spanish speaking side of the island to live as a hispanic people.nothing to do with race.it's about culture.nothing was born from the haitian nation.dominicans just reaffimed who they already were before the hatian invasion.the effort to expel the hatians involved all levels of dominican society and that should speak for itself.
From: Brooklyn
As for American perceptions. Been here most of my life and I've never been confused for a black person. it seems that you are not as familiar with the many faces of the dominican people as you're insinuating you are or you are just seeking to perpetuate stereotypes.
Written by: John, 14 May 2007 3:27 AM
From: NY
J.F.G. Valerio, It is disturbing, and hard to understand why the people on the esatern side of the island desired to live as hispanics when it was the hispanics (Spaniards) that annihilated the Taino indians which Dominicans claimed to be from. On the other hand the people on the western side of the island wanted no desire to live as hispanics due to that reason. They rename the western part "Ayiti" (Haiti), which derived from the Taino indians. They kept the Taino bloodline alive.
From: Brooklyn
John, it's not just that it was our desire to live as hispanics. we are hispanics! that is the reality.haitians do not live as hispanics because haiti was a french colony, not a spanish one so it's not because of any conscious choice that hatians don't "live as hispanics". that i have to point this out to you is disturbing in of itself.
From: Brooklyn
by the way, hispanic is not a race nor is it used to refer specifically to spaniards.it's a cultural label. one must know what a word means before one uses it in a public forum. otherwise, one runs the risk of looking foolish at best.
Written by: John, 15 May 2007 1:09 AM
From: NY
I'm elated to learn that you know that hispanic is not a race. Knowing this should end the debate of what race are Dominicans and properly characterize Dominicans as belonging to the Black race. "Black" comes in many shades. Being label Black does not make Dominicans any less hispanic. Acceptance of one's true identity makes one a better person. Disclaiming one's true identity makes one an ignorant person.
Written by: Samuel, 15 May 2007 1:31 AM
From: Florida
The problem between Dominican-Haitian relations is the concept of Dominicanism. Duarte chose the name because it was in perfect allignment with his racist ideology. The Dominican Order killed the Jews and Moors in Spain in order to create a White-Catholic run state, which is what Duarte wanted. The very word Dominican is racist and anti-color in its nature. Until we address the Racist root of the word Dominican and the racism that DR's flag stands for, we will continue to miss the issue.
From: Brooklyn
ridiculous. dominican was chosen because it's derivative from santo DOMINGO, not because of some religious order. as i already stated the haitian state was indeed founded on the racist ideology of negritude no matter how much one tries to sugar coat it.and John, no matter how many decrees were passed in haiti during the 19th century to the effect, dominicans are not exclusivley a black people nor are we haitians unless of course decrees made by the hatian government somehow are capable (cont'd
From: Brooklyn
of altering reality. if that's the case,John, i suggest you get the haitian government to pass decress to end all the misery currently being endured by the haitian people.in all these postings it has become evident what is felt by many haitians. one can deduce that they see dr as a detached part of haiti and they are angry and frustrated that dominicans do not see themselves as so. get over it.we're two seperate peoples and will continue to be so.
From: Brooklyn
by the way who here was debating what race dominicans are? if anyone is here trying to assign a race to the dominican people it is everyone that's posting here that's not dominican.that there is a negro element in the dominican population is as clear as day and i challenge anyone to find a statement made by me negating this. with that said that is not solely who we are as a people.we do not live by the one drop rule nor according to hysterical haitian proclamations.dominicans embrace(cont'd)
From: Brooklyn
all the components that make up here gene pool.if we were to embrace the solely african aspect of our culture then we would negate so much of who we are and the same would be true if we only embraces our european or indian roots.we are a combination of many things.on what basis does our african cultural heritage negate all others?the basis for this only exists in the minds of those that wish to classify our people into something more palatable to themsleves for whatever reason.
Written by: John, 16 May 2007 1:33 AM
From: NY
J.F.G.Valerio, I admire your enthusiasm and pridefulness of being Dominican. As an American, I do not have a problem with Dominicans wanting to be just Dominicans as long they embrace their African lineage. One thing we must agree is that Dominicans and Haitians are not two separate peoples. Both Dominicans and Haitians share the same culture, ex,. eat rice and beans, and dance to meringue. The only difference between Dominicans and Haitians is their language.
Written by: jlb, 16 May 2007 9:20 AM
From: nyc
John: I think u need to get on a plane and travel to Santo Domingo. Haitians dance Merengue? maybe according to you its the national dance of Haiti?
Written by: Samuel, 16 May 2007 3:31 PM
From: Florida
Valerio,
FYI: Santo Domingo is St. Dominic in English. St. Dominic (or Santo Domingo) was the leader and the founder of the Dominican Order (aka Order of Preachers) in Spain in the 1300's.
Santo Domingo and his Dominican Order were responsible for the genoicde of Hundreds of Thousands of Jews in Spain.
Not Ridiculous; a fact. Look it up.
Sorry Valario, you have been fooled for so long. Dominicanism is Racism and Bigotry. It has been for 700 years.
Written by: Samuel, 16 May 2007 3:36 PM
From: Florida
Jib,
Haitians dance what is called the Meringue, which is danced almost exactly like the Merengue of the eastern side, only slower and you turn to the left instead of the right. Same dance.
Today it is the dance of the Kompas Direct. The national music of Haiti. Same dance. If you speed up Kompas it becomes Merengue. The beat (like Salsa and Cumbia) comes from Africa.
Haitians eat rice and beans with plantanos and some kind of meat also, just like the people of the eastern side.
Written by: Samuel, 16 May 2007 3:40 PM
From: Florida
to Jib (contd)
only the language is different. But then again we are Latinos and we are speaking in English and that doesn't make us any less Latino.
BTW: Haitians are Latinos also, just like Brazilians. French is a Latin language, just like the Castillian language (that you may call Spanish) that is spoken on the eastern side.
Everyone just has bought into the bigotry and ignorance of La Trinataria. We need to break the chains and unite then the island will get somewhere.
Written by: John, 16 May 2007 10:28 PM
From: NY
Samuel, I see your are Dominican and your views are the total opposite of Valerio and jlb. Dominicans like you and Americans like me are needed in this world to fight cruelty, racism and evil. Best way to fight cruelty and racism is thru education. Best way to fight evil is thru love.
From: Brooklyn
"Duarte chose the name (Dominicans) because it was in perfect allignment with his racist ideology".samuel,i must debunk your idiotic theory once and for all.Duarte did no such thing.Nunez de Caceres refers to the inhabitants of the spanish-speaking side of the islands as DOMINICANS in his declaration of independence againt spain in 1821 when duarte was but a mere child.I suggest serious study on your part before speaking with such certainty on any particular subject.
From: Brooklyn
"One thing we must agree is that Dominicans and Haitians are not two separate peoples. Both Dominicans and Haitians share the same culture, ex,. eat rice and beans, and dance to meringue. The only difference between Dominicans and Haitians is their language."
all you've done is reinforce my earlier statement about haitians seeing dr as a detached part of haiti.
From: Brooklyn
language is the main component of culture and the main uniter of peoples who see themselves as different from their neighbors,john. the czechs and the southern germans are a genetically similiar people with a similiar cuisine and both share central european affinities but tell them they are the same people and see what kind of response you'll receive.your concept of what constitutes a distinct grouping of peoples based on cultural traits needs some serious revision.
Written by: Samuel, 17 May 2007 12:42 PM
From: Florida
LOL!!
Valario,
Nunez de careres was decended from Spaniards. The same Spanish people that raped the land, killed the Tainos and enslaved the Africans. Why should we respect or follow him or Duarte as any leader? They don't speak for me.
The fact is that they both were racists and individuals who as children of invaders to the island have no legitamate claim to the land. They were rightfully expelled from the island and the country that they formed is racist and shoud be disbanded.
Written by: Jose, 17 May 2007 1:01 PM
From: New Jersey
Valerio,
Nunez de Caceres didn't refer to the inhabitants as Dominicans. That made up when the Truijllo regime rewrote all of the history books. Even Frank Moya Pons gets all of his indengous "Dominican" information from books that were written btwn 1933 and 1959. Check the bibliography. There is not one book left in the country that has been untouched by Trujillo.
Amazing How a history can be created and taught to school children in 30 years?
And you guys believe this stuff! Silly Ra
From: Brooklyn
Jose, i suggest you read the first dominican declaration of independence. there is a word for word reprint in english (translated from the original spanish by the books editors) of said document in the "Dominican People", published by markus Weiner and edited by Sagas and Inoa.In said docments Nunez de Caceres uses the word "Dominican" several times.what documentation do you have to back up your claim Jose?
From: Brooklyn
you are entitled to your opinions, Samuel ,but the fact remains that your whole theory as to why dominicans are indeed called dominicans is in error.explain to me, then, why the french initially called there colony on the island Saint-Domingue? could it have something to do with the spanish city on hipaniola of the same name in spanish or were the french also trying to invoke a spanish order of murderous, racist zealots when they named their colony thus?
Written by: John, 18 May 2007 2:17 AM
From: NY
Valerio, you came to the USA when you were 3 years old. You are basically an American. As an American you should be aware that the government of DR and a small elite group of Dominicans rewrote the history of DR. Unless you belong to that small elite group, don't let yourself be fool by those who rewrote history of DR. Since you reside in the USA why don't you get together with your brothers and sisters from the western side of the Island and exchange views. This is America, it is possible
From: Brooklyn
John, what documentation do you have to back up your hypothesis? what credentials do you have to make such a claim?note: i came here at 3 months old and i've mantained contact with my country of birth continuously whether it be through travel or communication.do not fool yourself into thinking that one is any less dominican or loves dr any less because they've spent their formative years here.currently, dr has a president that has at least that in common with me.
From: Brooklyn
one can deduce that not only have some haitians chosen to believe that the bulk of dominican history is a fabrication and that dr is a detached part of haiti(note no one has come on here to debate the second notion. maybe now they will since i've pointed it out).there lies the haitian peoples' anger with the way the dominican state has decided to deal with illegal haitian immigration.they don't see themselves as what they indeed are when they step on dominican soil, as foreigners, and (cont'
From: Brooklyn
(cont'd) they are incensed that the dominican people would treat them as such. it's almost a "how dare they" attitude and to wrap up this attitude with a cloak of righteous indignation they've(and their represantatives) chosen to play the race card in front of the rest of the world.well guess what? haitians are indeed foreigners on dominican soil and there are indeed two distinct states on hispaniola.haitians don't know what it is to hear their grandparents laugh to tres patines on the (cont
From: Brooklyn
radio or stories of how their parents' freinds fell in love to a camilo sesto song nor have they filled stadiums full of fans singing along to ana gabriel songs. these are little nuances particular to the hispanic culture the dominicans share with the reat of the spanish speaking world and that hatians could never relate to.I'm not saying that the haitian nation and its culture is inferior or superior to that of the dominicans. I'm just saying it's two different animals all together and (con
From: Brooklyn
the haitians as a people need to recognize and accept that.
Written by: Samuel, 18 May 2007 2:16 PM
From: Florida
Varerio,
It doesn't matter what Nunez de Carces said or what word he used. It seems to me that you are just emmoured with European culture and its values. Stop sweating them. It doesn't matter if the Freach called their colony St. Dominique or Santo Domingo; its still a colonial name from a foreign group of Europeans who have no claim to the land. The Haitian Liberation of the island expelled European INVADERS, RACISTS & MURDERERS. But you love them, so I know you won't see that.
Written by: Samuel, 18 May 2007 2:22 PM
From: Florida
John,
Valerio's arguements are typical of white americans when they ask for written proof of history, in an attempt to paint a picture of any culture with an oral history as not reliable. Anything black or Indigenous is a "theory" because a white man (or a colored person with a white view of the world) didn't write it. So Nunez de Caceres (who was white) counts, but others don't. God forbid we want to throw statues of Christopher Columbus into the sea. That would be "racism". LOL
Written by: Jose, 18 May 2007 2:25 PM
From: New Jersey
I don't need to read the Dominican declaration of Independence. To me (and a lot of other people around the world) its not a legitamate country, no matter what you say. It is a 163 year occupation by the children of European colonial invaders and those who sympathize with them and their white-Catholic values.
Written by: Samuel, 18 May 2007 6:14 PM
From: Florida
FYI: Valerio,
Haitians know all about Cortijo y su Combo, Hector Lavoe, Celia Cruz and know many more merengue songs than you may think they do. As an American, living in NY maybe YOU should go to a Haitian party (SOB's has one every friday) to see for yourself how much Salsa they play, (that is Latin Music). The Copacabana in NY is filled with Haitians when a Salsa band comes to play. They know all about Camilo Sexto too. You show your limited exposure by your comments. U need to get out mo
From: Brooklyn
Samuel, i had plenty of haitian freinds in college (very good people indeed) and even went to a few of their parties(did i mention i'm from brooklyn where there is a huge haitian presence?) and indeed those experiences have only helped reinforce what i already know, that haitian and dominican culture are distinct.never assume anything about someone you do not actually know.
From: Brooklyn
p.s. being an aficionado of hispanic culture and actually being hispanic are two distinct things.
From: Brooklyn
"The Haitian Liberation of the island expelled European INVADERS, RACISTS & MURDERERS" and replaced them with newly liberated slaves who INVADED and MURDERED their neighbors to the east and would eventually settle down to create a RACIST state that today is known as "the Black Republic". i wonder how incensed world reaction would be toward a nation that styles itself "the White Republic".
Written by: John, 21 May 2007 11:36 AM
From: NY
Valerio, Samuel is right. You need to get out more and congregate with your brothers and sisters from the western side of the Island. You might be surprise to what you might learn from them. Go out and have some fun. You came to the USA at 3 months old which make you an outsider to the Dominican people. You are an American just like me, so go out and have some fun. Stop being naive.
From: Brooklyn
"Valerio's arguements are typical of white americans when they ask for written proof of history, in an attempt to paint a picture of any culture with an oral history as not reliable."
i asked for proof to back the claim that dominican history was distorted. what oral history are you referring to?do haitians have a oral history of the dominican republic that is somehow more reliable then anything that can be authenticated?
From: Brooklyn
"You came to the USA at 3 months old which make you an outsider to the Dominican people."
My, my John. I'm surprised Leonel hasn't made you an ambassador yet seeing as how you speak with such authority on behalf of the dominican people.
Written by: Theresa, 23 May 2007 12:51 PM
From: Brooklyn NY
i feel if your from any island, whether it be puerto rico, Dominican Republic, or any carribean islands you are part black. The Dominican people who are from the Dominican Republic are spanish but also have some black. Just like me I'm puerto Rican but some where I have black because being from and island, no one is pure, I feel Dominicans are not savages they are a loving culture of people just like us puerto ricans, it's sad to classify all Dominicans for a few bad ones.
Written by: Samuel, 23 May 2007 2:18 PM
From: Florida
Nationalism is such an 17th century concept especally in a post modern world. Rice and beans with platanos is rice and beans with platanos no matter which side of an imagined border they are made on. Valerio you seem very young or at best the child of immigrants. Puerto Ricans learned 40 years ago that just because you visit a place or may have fond memories of it doesn't make you from there. Just because my father was born in Boston doesn't make me a Bostonian. Maybe you will catch up later.
Written by: Samuel, 23 May 2007 2:23 PM
From: Florida
It's interesting. Usually the children of Immigrants feel this nationalist nostalgia based on an ideal of what a place is like in their parents memories. The fact is that if that place was so wonderful, they would have never left. Plenty of places have palm trees, beaches and mountains. Can you eat on a day to day basis, that is the question. The fact is your flag does not feed you. This movie played already 40 years ago with Puerto Ricans and we know how its going to end. Dont be so naive.
Written by: Samuel, 23 May 2007 2:29 PM
From: Florida
..the end of the movie is that you assimilate, marry people who's parents didn't come from where your parents came from and become part of America. It happend to the Irish, the Italians, the Puerto Ricans and the Cubans. It will happen to the Dominicans too. So you can wave your flag all you want but in the end your grandchildren will not be talking about how great the DR is. It's just another place on earth with palm trees.
From: Brooklyn
samuel, you lack logic and you make idiotic statements without knowing about what you speak on. you never bothered to ask me if i've ever lived in dr for a protracted period of time, and indeed i have.as for nationalism it is alive and well with all those that love their country of origin even if it is just a group of palm trees.and indeed, if i am blessed with grandchildren they will share the same love for dr that their grandfather has.
From: Brooklyn
as for puerto ricans. I grew up with many second and third generation puerto ricans and i can assure you that the fact that their families have spent several generations on the continental US has not diminished their love or observance of certain aspects of puerto rican culture.ever heard the saying "no naci en puerto rico. puerto rico nacio en mi"?good thing you're not posting with your family name.i'd be loath to take absolute credit for ignorant comments such as yours myself.
From: Brooklyn
"Nationalism is such an 17th century concept especally in a post modern world."
that's funny coming from someone who's practically filled this post with ridiculous haitian propaganda. i guess nationalism is passe' when it stems from someone else besides yourself.
Written by: Samuel, 24 May 2007 1:12 PM
From: Florida
Spanish "family" names are for the most part slave names. They are not any indication of heritage. There are plenty of black americans who have the names "Jefferson", "Smith" and "Johnson" it doesn't make them come from England. Now I can see why you love the DR so much, you lived there and were educated under their brainwashing system which has not changed since the days of Trujillo.
Written by: Carloman, 27 May 2007 12:44 PM
From: Brooklyn, New York
From Haiti nothing good has ever come, nothing but misery, invasion, and poor people, who in their haydays ruled over the island and mistreated the dominicans. DOMINICAN REPUBLIC bares no responsibility for Haiti or her people. You who support Haiti are too focused on what we dominicans do, Why don't you try to place blame on your people and politicians instead of us. From what i've read, according to John + Samuel, Haiti's misery is because of DR. Its a load of garbage
Written by: John, 30 May 2007 12:01 AM
From: NY
Carloman from Brooklyn New York, As an American I applaud you for expressing your feelings. I am glad to learn that misery and poor people do not exist in the DR. The drug trade, prostitution, and corruption must have transformed DR into a country of millionaires.
From: USA
I am not Dominican yet I visit the country every month for business I have observed the tolerance of the Dominican people towards those that come to visit or do business there. I can only express my own experience and that is of a welcoming people that are friendly and open their hearts and houses to strangers. I truly hope that if there is racism against the hatians it will remain with only a few not the societey as a whole.
From: Brooklyn, New York
"The drug trade, prostitution, and corruption must have transformed DR into a country of millionaires."
And yet haitian find it better than living in their own country, right John. By the way you forgot to comment on the other bit of my last statement. about haiti's solution to its problem are not found in the DR. i want to hear your answer, again you are avoiding the real issue!!!!
Written by: John, 5 Jun 2007 12:22 AM
From: NY
Carlos Franco, I agree with you that DR is to poor to solve Haiti's problems. The solution to Haiti's problems are the Haitians themselves with some aid from rich countries like the USA, France, Canada, and any other rich countries who want to help the poor people of Haiti. The Haitian people paid the price for being the first country to abolished slavery. It is time for those countries who isolated Haiti help Haiti become the country it should have been.
From: Brooklyn
dominicans share very similar cultures to haitians excluding the fact that one speaks haitian creole and the other spanish. Haitians are predominately black while dominicans are predominately "mulatto" (which means part black). 3.8 million dominicans are of black descent ya'll could look it up. History is history...so wat if haiti invaded the dr a century ago its history. u cant hold haiti accountable now for wat happened in the late 1800s to early 1900s....its ridiculous.
From: Brooklyn
Dominican policy is racist to an extent because if they believe Haitians are a threat to the dr's stability and economy then why would they willingly take in so many of them to work on the cane fields. A DR representative has said himself that Haitians hold up the economy by working the cane fields for low wages and that the DR needed them. So y discriminate them and beat them for stupid reasons. Haiti holds no grudge against the DR so y should the DR. The DR needs to recognize its African
From: Brooklyn
heritage alongside its Spanish heritage and stop hatin on Haiti. Its one island one people.........grow up. Its just by chance that Haiti is more black than the DR but the culture is essentially the same in a different language. If Haiti spoke Spanish or if the DR spoke creole (in which populations of both countries speak) and there was one government it wouldn't be 2 countries but one.
From: Santo Domingo
Sorry Mr. Spooky4XL, that formula that you proppose so happily didn't work in the past, when economical and ecological problems where less pressing than today. In light of this fact, do you truly believe that experiment would work today?. By the way, the DR-Haiti case isn't the only one in the world of two nations sharing one island, or have you forgotten the case of Cyprus with it's Greek and Turkish halves?
From: Santo Domingo
As for the culture, Mr. Spooky4XL, it is a gross distortion of the truth to say that the culture in both sides of the island is essentially the same. For your information, the majority of the dominican population is of the Catholic faith, while Vodoun it's the main faith of the Haitian population. More thruthful would be to say that we, the dominicans, are more closer culturally to the Cubans or Puerto Ricans than the haitians (because of our common Taino, Hispanic and African origins).
From: Santo Domingo
I think that it's time for the haitians to finally stop seeing us dominicans as a "rebel province" , and instead to see us for what we are, a country that has gained it's right to be in the concert of nations.
From: Brooklyn, New York
Hey Spooky here's a history lesson for you. In 1844, after 22 years of occupation haitians still referred to dominicans as spaniards. We were different then, we are different now. so what if haiti invaded us? perhaps if it had been the other way around it would mean something to you. And why exacly does haitians want to be part of dominican republic, what is it that you haitians hope to obtain in our land that you can't fight for it in haiti.
From: Brooklyn, New York
And as for being related, i agree with Enriquillo1982, we are more similiar in language, culture, racial make-up and religion to any country in latin america than haiti.
Haitians are Black and speak bad-french (creole)
Dominicans are Spanish, Black, Tainos, Arab, Catholic and speak the language of Don Quijote with a cibaeño accent! LOL
needless to say "Different"
From: Santo Domingo
Also, my friend Carlos Franco, the peculiar accent of the southern provinces (Bani, Azua, Barahona, Pedernales, Elias Piña and San Juan de la Maguana) with their "erres". LOL!!
Written by: John, 22 Jun 2007 12:33 AM
From: NY
Dominicans practice voodou just like the Haitians. The majority of the Haitian population is of the catholic faith just like the Dominicans. Haitians are Black and Dominicans are Black. Haitians speak creole, french and spanish and Dominicans speak spanish. Any intelligent person would conclude that Haitians and Dominicans are the same people. The problem is that Dominicans hate their Blackness and on the other hand the Haitians embrace their Blackness. 1 people 2 nations. STOP THE HATE.
From: Santo Domingo
You're so wrong Mr. John, because dominican society is, first and foremost, a multicultural society. You'll have to be blind not to see the relatively large amounts of people of Chinese, Spanish, Italian and Arabic descent living in the National District (soon there will be a Chinatown near San Carlos). So, my friend, it's a wrong assumption to presume that dominicans are entirely as you're currently doing.
From: Santo Domingo
As for the vodou, you have to take into account that this worship has been brought to this country by the haitian inmigrants. Because the african slaves that were brought by the spanish were fully integrated into the Catholic faith, you only have to look for the Cofradias founded by this people that were granted official sanction by the Pope.
From: Santo Domingo
If you doubt my claims of multiculturalism, you only need to visit some sectors in the Distrito Nacional, namely, Los Cacizcagos, Piantini, Naco, Anacaona, Arroyo Hondo, Fernandez, Julieta. Or to visit the following schools: Carol Morgan, St. George, ABC, the Dominico-Americano, Quisqueya, among others. So, my dear friend John "Only the truth shall set us free". Stop buying the haitian propaganda and start seeing things for yourself.
From: Santo Domingo
Also, my friend John. How would you explain the the haitian authorities during the occupation (1822-1844) persistence for suppresing the Spanish language and customs in this country? Language, my friend, is the first sign of cultural difference among the people on this island. How would you explain then, dominican people's insistence to be free, going as far as defending the country against repeated attempts at reconquest by the haitians in twelve years of grueling war (1844-1856)?
From: Santo Domingo
Finally, my friend John, I have to "enlighten" you on two things, the first one is that only the haitians of the elite speak french, the vast majority of the population (95%) only speaks creole, as for the spanish, only the illegals on our country speak it (because they need to in order to survive, not for the sake of learning it), as for the myth of Catholicism being the religion of Haiti, they are only catholics outwardly, because inwardly they keep all their voudun practices, for them (cont.)
From: Santo Domingo
cont... for them, both religions don't excluded each other. In other words, you're only wha you're at heart, and they at heart, are vodoun practicioners.
Written by: John, 27 Jun 2007 11:09 AM
From: NY
Dear Enriquillo 1982, you claimed DR is a multicultural society but Dominicans do not accept their African heritage. Even though Dominicans look like people of African descent, they look down on Black people. This is self hatred. The slave treatment of the Haitians due to their darker complexion is one example that proves DR does not accept "Black" people as part of its society. Many African-Americans complain of the poor treatment they received when they traveled to the DR for vacations.
From: Santo Domingo
My dear friend John, if there were really a widespread hatred for Black People as you claim, would we dance with the "Guloyas" from San Pedro de Macoris, which are from British West Indian and Haitian descent? Would we look with gratefulness the people of Samaná, which are from African American origin in their majority, people who have enriched our language with their use of XIX century english vocabulary (which in their opinion is better than the english used nowadays)?. cont...
From: Santo Domingo
cont...please mr. John, pay a visit to San Pedro de Macoris and ask them (The Guloyas) if they have experienced hatred from the people.
From: Santo Domingo
I have been reading some of your earlier posts, John, and I have to say that you have some gross misconceptions about the situation of the haitians in DR. First, (and I'm witness to this), the majority of them come and go as they please at the streets of the National District. In fact, the so called migration raids are minimal if you compare them with the ones that happen everyday on Madrid and Paris (why don't you talk about those!?), even though our migration problems are worse than theirs.
From: Santo Domingo
The second thing is, if you're attacking us for our social "blanquismo", why don't you attack the haitian elite's "Black Supremacy" policy? That is, the prohibition for foreigners (specially white people) of having lands and property in Haiti. How can you accuse us of being racists when the haitians style themselves "The Black Republic"? Tell me, it's this not racist enough for you? What would you think about some european nation styling themselves "The White Republic"?
From: Santo Domingo
You only have to read their constitution, then, I'm sure you'll understand our misgivings about having a political association of any kind with them. Heck, their current economical, political and social backwardness justify in every sense our stubborn defense of our independence from them.
From: Brooklyn, New York
John: In the US, other black people from the lesser antilles look down on Haitians. Trinidarians, Jamaicans and people from Granada, i have heard them speak in a bad tone and wish not to associate themselves with Haitians and yet you only speak about dominicans... I wont say more because Enriquillo1982, in his last post, said it well enough
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Then there are those who "jump on the bandwagon" in association and to glean a bit of the noteriety for themselves.
International Organizations have this same impetuosity for "hogging the spotlight".
Mountains out of Molehills are the results.
telling it" like it is"....It needs to be said and said until something is done about the rampant racism existing in that "bit of paradise".
There is a parrot imitating Spring
in the palae, its feathers parsley green.
Out of the swamp the cane appears ...
El General has found his word: perejil.
Who says it, lives. He laughs, teeth appearing
out of the swamp. The cane appears
in our dreams, lashed by wind and streaming.
And we lie down. For every drop of blood
there is a parrot imitating spring.
Out of the swamp the cane appears.
Read about the "wonderful" occupation by haiti:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist....nican_Republic#Haitian_occupation
The island of Hispaniola, of which Haiti occupies the western third, was originally inhabited by the Taíno Arawak people. Christopher Columbus landed at Môle Saint-Nicolas on December 5, 1492, and claimed the island for Spain. Nineteen days later on Christmas Eve, 1492, the Santa Maria ran aground near the present site of Pen-island Cap-Haitien and Columbus was forced to leave 39 men, founding the settlement of La Navidad .
One of the earliest leaders to fight off Spanish conquest was Queen Anacaona, a Taino princess from Xaragua who married Chief Caonabo, a Taino king (cacique) from Maguana. The two fought hard against the Europeans; she was captured by the Spanish and executed in front of her people. Other noted Taino leaders from Haiti are Chief Guacanagari, Chief Guama and Chief Hatuey (who later fled to Cuba and helped fight the Spaniards there).
FYI: Santo Domingo is St. Dominic in English. St. Dominic (or Santo Domingo) was the leader and the founder of the Dominican Order (aka Order of Preachers) in Spain in the 1300's.
Santo Domingo and his Dominican Order were responsible for the genoicde of Hundreds of Thousands of Jews in Spain.
Not Ridiculous; a fact. Look it up.
Sorry Valario, you have been fooled for so long. Dominicanism is Racism and Bigotry. It has been for 700 years.
Haitians dance what is called the Meringue, which is danced almost exactly like the Merengue of the eastern side, only slower and you turn to the left instead of the right. Same dance.
Today it is the dance of the Kompas Direct. The national music of Haiti. Same dance. If you speed up Kompas it becomes Merengue. The beat (like Salsa and Cumbia) comes from Africa.
Haitians eat rice and beans with plantanos and some kind of meat also, just like the people of the eastern side.
only the language is different. But then again we are Latinos and we are speaking in English and that doesn't make us any less Latino.
BTW: Haitians are Latinos also, just like Brazilians. French is a Latin language, just like the Castillian language (that you may call Spanish) that is spoken on the eastern side.
Everyone just has bought into the bigotry and ignorance of La Trinataria. We need to break the chains and unite then the island will get somewhere.
all you've done is reinforce my earlier statement about haitians seeing dr as a detached part of haiti.
Valario,
Nunez de careres was decended from Spaniards. The same Spanish people that raped the land, killed the Tainos and enslaved the Africans. Why should we respect or follow him or Duarte as any leader? They don't speak for me.
The fact is that they both were racists and individuals who as children of invaders to the island have no legitamate claim to the land. They were rightfully expelled from the island and the country that they formed is racist and shoud be disbanded.
Nunez de Caceres didn't refer to the inhabitants as Dominicans. That made up when the Truijllo regime rewrote all of the history books. Even Frank Moya Pons gets all of his indengous "Dominican" information from books that were written btwn 1933 and 1959. Check the bibliography. There is not one book left in the country that has been untouched by Trujillo.
Amazing How a history can be created and taught to school children in 30 years?
And you guys believe this stuff! Silly Ra
It doesn't matter what Nunez de Carces said or what word he used. It seems to me that you are just emmoured with European culture and its values. Stop sweating them. It doesn't matter if the Freach called their colony St. Dominique or Santo Domingo; its still a colonial name from a foreign group of Europeans who have no claim to the land. The Haitian Liberation of the island expelled European INVADERS, RACISTS & MURDERERS. But you love them, so I know you won't see that.
Valerio's arguements are typical of white americans when they ask for written proof of history, in an attempt to paint a picture of any culture with an oral history as not reliable. Anything black or Indigenous is a "theory" because a white man (or a colored person with a white view of the world) didn't write it. So Nunez de Caceres (who was white) counts, but others don't. God forbid we want to throw statues of Christopher Columbus into the sea. That would be "racism". LOL
Haitians know all about Cortijo y su Combo, Hector Lavoe, Celia Cruz and know many more merengue songs than you may think they do. As an American, living in NY maybe YOU should go to a Haitian party (SOB's has one every friday) to see for yourself how much Salsa they play, (that is Latin Music). The Copacabana in NY is filled with Haitians when a Salsa band comes to play. They know all about Camilo Sexto too. You show your limited exposure by your comments. U need to get out mo
i asked for proof to back the claim that dominican history was distorted. what oral history are you referring to?do haitians have a oral history of the dominican republic that is somehow more reliable then anything that can be authenticated?
My, my John. I'm surprised Leonel hasn't made you an ambassador yet seeing as how you speak with such authority on behalf of the dominican people.
that's funny coming from someone who's practically filled this post with ridiculous haitian propaganda. i guess nationalism is passe' when it stems from someone else besides yourself.
And yet haitian find it better than living in their own country, right John. By the way you forgot to comment on the other bit of my last statement. about haiti's solution to its problem are not found in the DR. i want to hear your answer, again you are avoiding the real issue!!!!
Haitians are Black and speak bad-french (creole)
Dominicans are Spanish, Black, Tainos, Arab, Catholic and speak the language of Don Quijote with a cibaeño accent! LOL
needless to say "Different"