Like many people, who begin in obscurity, gain a modicum of recognition for whatever reasons, Ms Pierre seem to have elevated herself to the level of being aGuru of World Opinion when it coes to the racial, social charactistics of theDominican people.
Then there are those who "jump on the bandwagon" in association and to glean a bit of the noteriety for themselves.
International Organizations have this same impetuosity for "hogging the spotlight".
Mountains out of Molehills are the results.

BHD; very interesting....but the question remains billy, Is the DR a savage racist society? Ya slam the person and totally forget the message. Sheesh!

All of the negative comments surrounding Ms Pierre's statements, conceal the real issue, and that is racism as praticed in the DR. I think she is a hero for speaking up and
telling it" like it is"....It needs to be said and said until something is done about the rampant racism existing in that "bit of paradise".

It's sad to see how one person opinion can create such a bad image and dominican who support her view should be a shamed. Last time i checked she faced racist policies in her own country. Where lighter skin rule, maybe she should go back and fight in her own country for equal treatment before she goes around spread untrue statement. They do the samething here in NY.So i don't understand why is it even an issue over there.

The Writer of this editorial is trying to incite hatred between DR and Haitians by taking Sonia Pierre's statement out of context. If you read the statement she did not accused Dominicans of being racist. She is Dominican herself. All she said was that there are savage conditions against one group for the question of color or the origin of the person. This is a true statement. The writer of this ediorial blinded by hate speaks for himself because most people do not view Dominicans as racist.

Today in the Dominican Republic, Blacks are lynched, savagely beaten, shot and even burned alive by mobs of Dominicans; just because of the color of their skin. Blacks are snatched off the streets by Dominican Police & the Dominican Army in broad daylight; tied up, shackled and chained, packed into trucks like animals, denied food and water and dropped at the Dominican border, many times; stripped naked; even the elderly.

Dominican Racism has a long history. In ONE WEEK in 1937, almost 80,000 Blacks were killed by the Dominican Army in order to “cleanse” the country of Black people. Sounding like the Ku Klux Klan the racist Dominican Government pledges to continue the roundups of Blacks despite the condemnation of Amnesty International, the U.N. Human Rights Committee, the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and the Human Rights Watch. They encourage mobs of Dominican Nationalists to act like Klansmen.

In the 1930s, Trujillo became known for his open door policies toward Jewish refugees at a time when they were being turned away from the wealthier countries, and then toward exiles from the Spanish Civil War. These are viewed by historians as public relations ploys and attempts to "whiten" the predominantly mixed-race nation, a policy called blanquismo. The latter consisted of immigration conditions that favored the arrival of white or Caucasian people over the Blacks.

In pursuing blanquismo, Trujillo allegedly ordered Dominican troops to massacre 50,000 dark-skinned Haitian sugar cane workers in 1937, an action that he claimed was a sovereign response to the Haitian government's support of exiled Dominicans working to overthrow him.

The Haitian workers were identified as immigrants, and then murdered by the truckload, if they could not pronounce the letter r in "perejil", the Spanish word for parsley; this, as a clear identification of origin empirically based on the native tongue, for Dominicans speak Spanish and Haitians speak Haitian Creole.

US Poet Laureate Rita Dove wrote of the massacre in her poem, Parsley:

There is a parrot imitating Spring
in the palae, its feathers parsley green.
Out of the swamp the cane appears ...


El General has found his word: perejil.
Who says it, lives. He laughs, teeth appearing
out of the swamp. The cane appears


in our dreams, lashed by wind and streaming.
And we lie down. For every drop of blood
there is a parrot imitating spring.
Out of the swamp the cane appears.

John: 80.000 dead in one week.?i kno u have inflated those figures. International agenices put the figure at between 20-30,000 ( which is horrible enuff) but dont get the story wrong. Trujillo did nt have an open door policy to the Jews. THe Jews paid for those visas quite hansomely. (this at a time when USA was turning away jews from their doorstep) and when they arrived to DR they brought knowledge of trade and industry as is evidenced in the industries left behind in Sousa.

The fundamental problem when it comes to Haitian-Dominican relations is the fact that Dominicans see themselves as non-blacks because of their lighter complexion and want to be seen as different,thus superior,than their neighbors.From what I've heard,a poor Dominican is not better off than a poor Haitian and most people are living in abject poverty on both sides of Hispaniola .Meanwhile,The elites on both sides are having a ball,making millions, talking about the color green as in greenback..

jlb, I apologizes for the misprint. Trujillo allegedly ordered Dominican troops to massacre 50,000 dark-skinned Haitian sugar cane workers in 1937. As for the open door policy, you mean to tell me if the Haitians pay handsomely for their visa they will not be lynch, savagely beaten, shot and even burn alive by mobs of Dominicans; just because of the color of their skin. They will not be snatch off the streets by DR Police & the DR Army in broad daylight; tied up, shackled & chained like animals.

John: YES . I do mean that...if every black person was treated in this way in the DR quite simply there wouldnt be any people left period. 'cuz cousin everyone in the DR got a little black in them; so where do u stop once the killing begins? Its quite a slippery slope.

John you seem to forget that we dominicans were humiliated by the hatians for 22 years. Moreover, they invaded us 11 times in the 19th century. Tried to rob us of our language,our religion, and our education by shutting down the university. We have no responsibility towards haiti or haitians and when they ruled the island what did they do? If you doubt my facts read "The Dominican People a documentary history".

Carlos: Haiti did not invade DR 11 times because DR Identity did not exist until after its independence from Haiti. Even after that, DR annexed itself to Spain. While the Haitians fought and rid the Island of the people that annihilated the Taino Indians and enslaved the Africans on the Island, the Dominicans brought them back. Carlos FYI the Haitians abolished slavery on the entire Island when they ruled the Island and became the first Black Republic. You can't take that away.

John, The dominican republic declared its independence first from spain in 1821, about 8 weeks after haiti invaded, bringing an end to the republic. the 1844 independence declaration was the one that stuck and became permanent. Granted haiti did free the slaves of the spanish side but also committed brutal atrocities, and tried to erase our spanish identies. after 22 years of occupation haitians failed at transforming our identity which in turn fueled the rebellion!

John, so you're saying that the invasion is justified? know this, there were too many diferences between the two colonies, haiti then was much more developed. The spanish governor Jose Nunez de Caceres declared our first independece from spain on November 30, 1821. and called the island Spanish Haiti. How much freer could we have gotten????

Read about the "wonderful" occupation by haiti:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist....nican_Republic#Haitian_occupation

Bravo to John. Dominicans did not exist until AFTER Duarte's revolution. La Trinataria was a white organization, not a black one. "The Dominican Republic, a documentary history was referenced from books all written during the Trujillo regime, so they are tainted. The fact is that Haiti liberated the people of color all over this island. Just Duarte and everyone since him have brainwashed the people to believing otherwise.

John : again ur history is askew. THe spanish did nt re enslave the blacks on Hispanola. They were brought over from Africa AS salves....Blackk human beings not being indigenous to the carribean. Who cares about being first? look forward John,not backwards....whats happening today is what matters.

The Hatfields & the McCoys.Back and forth living in the past while the present and the future passes them by.You people should get over it before you all perish in the mess you are creating over here.White, black, yellow, brown, red. Who cares.Everyone claims they love this country but few are working at making it better.Don't you know that while you're involved in your petty squabbles you are all exploited? It's called divide and conquer. Take a good look around you. Do you like what you see

Carlos: Did people on the Eastern side of the Island wanted freedom or did they just Hated the Haitians because they were Black? The way I see it is that the people on the Eastern part "freed" themselves from the Haitians who were Black then invided the Spaniards who were White back to rule the Eastern part of the Island. You tell me the logic behind the DR independence from Haiti because the Spaniards were worst then the Haitians but Dominicans annexed DR to Spain. Great Revolution!

jlb: I did not say the Spaniards re enslave the Blacks. The Blacks were not slaves in Africa. I said the Spaniards enslaved the Blacks. The Spaniards annihilated the Indians on the Island of Hispaniola then abducted the Kings and Queens from Africa, took them to Hispaniola and then enslaved them. FYI jlb, you can not forget history. Especially the Haitian revolution. A group of people that freed themselves from 3 oppresor (Span.,Brit.,Fr.) and then created the first Black republic.

again john is askew in history.....The French brought over the first slaves not the spanish. and again i say to you ....who cares about whom was first.....look forward not backwards..the only ones to win from our bickering John is those who want to keep us oppressed (economically and socially).

I know very little about Dominican/Hatian relations and nothing about Sonia Pierre. What I and other people have noticed is that dominicans appear to be anti-black, which is strange because upon looking at most dominicans you can pick up on the african features and if the women didn't have black blood, there would be no need to straighten their hair. Trujillo really did a number over there. Dominicans have so much disdain for blacks that in essence they hate themselves.

Would dominicans welcome a large amount of dark skinned blacks from other countries to live in the Dominican Republic permanently if those people were self sufficient (no drain on the economy) or is it just the Haitians they have a problem with?

Ivette, I acclaim your comment and understanding of the problems between Dominicans and Haitians. From an outsider looking in, it looks like Dominicans do not welcome a large amount of dark skin blacks from other countries to live in DR permanently even if those black people were self sufficient. Dominicans are "mixed" between Whites and Blacks. They accept the White part but not the Black part. Like you said Ivette, Trujillo really proselytized the Dominicans.

all these arguments about haiti not invading the dominican republic before its inception as a state because a dom. rep. did not ye exist is moot. are the lives snuffed out during said invasions any less relevant because the people on the spanish side of the island did not refer to themselves as dominicans? as for the seperation of the dom. rep. from the haitian state one has to see said seperation as a reaffirmation of the dominican people's desire to live as a hispanic people. (cont'd)

the fact that elements among the dominican elite orchestrated a return to the spanish fold after seperation from haiti is a clear, if unfortunate, indication of this.Besides, one of the principle reasons for said annexation was because the before mentioned elites sincerely felt at the time that the seemingly perpetual clashes with haitian forces would eventually overwhelm the young dominican state. again, everyone fails to mention the tens of thousands of haitians who legally reside in (cont'd)

dominican territory. one only has to got to the UTESA campus in Santiago to see myriads of young haitian men and women who are students there.most dominicans are interested in curbing ILLEGAL immigration and its consequences. the funny thing is that all these slanderous remarks about the dominican people are coming at precisely a time when the dominican state is attempting to gain international focus for its beleaguered neighbor.

in pursuing negritude, dessalines the butcher murdered practically all the white haitians then still on the island, an act immortalized symbolically on the haitian flag, the haitian flag itself being the french tri-color with the "white" removed.Haiti is basically a state founded on racist principles. Obviously racism in Haiti itself has even deeper roots then that of its neighbor.

J.F.G. Valerio: According to Haitian history Dessaline did not murder "all" the white Haitians. Dessalines was not like the Sapniards who annihilated the Taino Indians off the Island of Hispanola. Dessalines proudly defended and liberated the Island of Hispanola from the people that enslaved, molested, rape, castrated, burned, butchered, lynched,and beheaded the Taino Indians and the Africans.

John, we can rewrite novels, short stories, essays, but we cannot rewrite history. that dessalines was indeed a butcher is thoroughly documented by his contempararies and by historians ever since.did you know that he even murdered scores of blacks in order to intimidate them to work for the french after the establishment of french rule when touissant was overthrown?what a wonderful figure to elevate to the position of father of a nation.as for your contention that the spaniards (cont'd)

eliminated all the tainos this has been proven false by the human genome project and by Dr. Martinez Cruzado who has demonstrated that the taino's genetic legacy is very real and present today in the spanish speaking caribbean.as for raping and burning maybe you might want to look into what dessalines and christophe did when the invaded the spanish part of the island in 1805.your so-called liberators are guilty of the very crimes you're rightfully castigating the spanish and french for.

John: if Haiti isnt a racist society....why was the color white taken out of the Haitian flag?

jlb: The Haitian did not remove the color white out of the Haitian flag out of of hatred or racism. One must understand in a time when the Haitian won their indepence from White domination, it is fair to say they remove the white to symbolize freedom from the French and created their own flag. History has proven that the Haitians hold no ill feelings towards white people. The Haitian people are one of the nicesst people on earth. They even hold no ill feelings towards the Dominicans and DR.

J.F.G Valerio: Trujillo did rewrite history. He proselytized the Dominicans. The problems between the two countries exist today because Trujillo rewrote history. But, no matter how much Trujillo rewrote the DR history, the truth shall be known. I assume as an intelligent person of your background, you are fully aware of the truth.

History of Haiti
The island of Hispaniola, of which Haiti occupies the western third, was originally inhabited by the Taíno Arawak people. Christopher Columbus landed at Môle Saint-Nicolas on December 5, 1492, and claimed the island for Spain. Nineteen days later on Christmas Eve, 1492, the Santa Maria ran aground near the present site of Pen-island Cap-Haitien and Columbus was forced to leave 39 men, founding the settlement of La Navidad .

Ayiti, which means "mountainous land", is a name used by its early inhabitants, the Taino-Arawak people, who also called it Bohio, meaning "rich villages", and Quisqueya, meaning "high land".

The Taínos were a seafaring branch of the South American Arawaks. Taíno means "the good" or "noble" in their language. A system of cacicazgos (chiefdoms) existed, called Marien, Maguana, Higuey, Magua and Xaragua, which could be subdivided. The cacicazgos were based on a system of tribute, consisting of the food grown by the Taíno. Among the cultural signs that they left were cave paintings around the country, which have become touristic and nationalistic symbols of Haiti.

Xaragua is modern day Leogane, a city in the southwest.
One of the earliest leaders to fight off Spanish conquest was Queen Anacaona, a Taino princess from Xaragua who married Chief Caonabo, a Taino king (cacique) from Maguana. The two fought hard against the Europeans; she was captured by the Spanish and executed in front of her people. Other noted Taino leaders from Haiti are Chief Guacanagari, Chief Guama and Chief Hatuey (who later fled to Cuba and helped fight the Spaniards there).

Cacique Henri, another Taino chief, fought victoriously against the Spaniards in the Bahoruco to gain freedom for himself and his people. The town associated with this history is Anse a Pitres, near the south-eastern town of Jacmel. Most of the Taino-Arawak people are extinct, the few survivors having mixed with African slaves and European conquerors.

jlb, you are wrong about the French being the first one to bring slaves to the Island of Hispanola: Enslavement, harsh treatment of the natives, and especially epidemic diseases such as smallpox caused the Taino population to plummet over the next quarter-century. In response, the Spanish began to import African slaves to search for gold on the island. Spanish interest in Hispaniola waned after the 1520s, when vast reserves of gold and silver were discovered in Mexico and South America.

John, trujillo and his policies didn't fall out of the sky.his haitian policy was a coherent articulation of anti-haitianism formulated by the intellectuals of the day in service of the regime but it was hardly new.there was antipathy toward haiti in dominican society well before trujillo. its just that trujillo managed to capitalize on these sentiments for the benefit of his regime's agenda.In any event trujillo is now seen as a monstrous criminial by most dominicans and justly so.(cont'd)

racist ideology played no part in the formation of the dominican state as the case with haiti. In any event trujillo is not the founder of the dominican state and many of his regime's views (and indeed many of the intellectuals that served said regime) have long been discredited.not so with the other historical criminals, plunderers and murderers the island of hispaniola has produced through the years.

John, cacique "henri" is more correctly named Enriquillo and bahoruco has nothing to do with the town of jacmel. Enriquillo's old stomping grounds lie entirely in the dominican southwest and he was not so much a cacique as he was a rebel against spanish rule. the cazigazos had already ceased to exist by enriquillo's time and indeed enriquillo was a thoroughly hispanicized indian.his band was, however, comprised of surviving indians who rebelled under his banner.

Francisco Del Rosario Sánchez founding father of the Dominican Republic taught himself Latin and French. He is mostly remembered as a man of action. In the proceedings that took place just before the proclamation of independence in February 27, 1844, Sánchez was voted by his peers in La Trinitaria as Commander in Arms and Chief of the Government Junta in the nascent republic. This was quite a recognition and testament to his virtues.

He (Francisco Del Rosario Sánchez) was 27 at the time, his social standing was clearly more humble than that of the men around him, and his black complexion struck a dissonant note among a group of mainly European descendants trying to rebel against the black republic of Haiti.

Pedro Santana Familias (1801-1864) was a Dominican soldier and politician born in the border community of Hincha (now in Haiti). He was the first constitutional president of the Dominican Republic. He relentlessly proceeded to arrest and/or force to exile members of La Trinitaria. The very first person that was forced out of the country was Juan Pablo Duarte, founding father of the new Dominican Republic. And he executed María Trinidad Sánchez, sister of Francisco del Rosario Sánchez.

Ulises Heureaux was president of the DR from 10/1/ 1882 to 10/1/1883, from 1/6 to 2/27/1887 and again from 4/30/1889 until his assassination, maintaining power between his terms. Heureaux, popularly known as Lilís, was born in Puerto Plata, the illegitimate son of a Haitian father and a mother from St. Thomas, and spoke French and English, the later with a thick creole accent. Widely distrusted as a foreigner, he was distinguished from most Dominican political leaders by his blackness.

J.F.G. Valerio, I disagree with you. Racist ideologies played a very big part in the formation of the Dominican State. Haiti incorporated the eastern part and proclaimed everyone on the Island Haitians, a Black Nation. Out of the Haitians the Dominican State was born. Dominicans are Negroes that speak spanish according to American people. I see you are from Brooklyn so you know how we here in the U.S feel.

again, (read this to yourself slowly) the dominican state was formed on the desire of the inhabitants of the spanish speaking side of the island to live as a hispanic people.nothing to do with race.it's about culture.nothing was born from the haitian nation.dominicans just reaffimed who they already were before the hatian invasion.the effort to expel the hatians involved all levels of dominican society and that should speak for itself.

As for American perceptions. Been here most of my life and I've never been confused for a black person. it seems that you are not as familiar with the many faces of the dominican people as you're insinuating you are or you are just seeking to perpetuate stereotypes.

J.F.G. Valerio, It is disturbing, and hard to understand why the people on the esatern side of the island desired to live as hispanics when it was the hispanics (Spaniards) that annihilated the Taino indians which Dominicans claimed to be from. On the other hand the people on the western side of the island wanted no desire to live as hispanics due to that reason. They rename the western part "Ayiti" (Haiti), which derived from the Taino indians. They kept the Taino bloodline alive.

John, it's not just that it was our desire to live as hispanics. we are hispanics! that is the reality.haitians do not live as hispanics because haiti was a french colony, not a spanish one so it's not because of any conscious choice that hatians don't "live as hispanics". that i have to point this out to you is disturbing in of itself.

by the way, hispanic is not a race nor is it used to refer specifically to spaniards.it's a cultural label. one must know what a word means before one uses it in a public forum. otherwise, one runs the risk of looking foolish at best.

I'm elated to learn that you know that hispanic is not a race. Knowing this should end the debate of what race are Dominicans and properly characterize Dominicans as belonging to the Black race. "Black" comes in many shades. Being label Black does not make Dominicans any less hispanic. Acceptance of one's true identity makes one a better person. Disclaiming one's true identity makes one an ignorant person.

The problem between Dominican-Haitian relations is the concept of Dominicanism. Duarte chose the name because it was in perfect allignment with his racist ideology. The Dominican Order killed the Jews and Moors in Spain in order to create a White-Catholic run state, which is what Duarte wanted. The very word Dominican is racist and anti-color in its nature. Until we address the Racist root of the word Dominican and the racism that DR's flag stands for, we will continue to miss the issue.

ridiculous. dominican was chosen because it's derivative from santo DOMINGO, not because of some religious order. as i already stated the haitian state was indeed founded on the racist ideology of negritude no matter how much one tries to sugar coat it.and John, no matter how many decrees were passed in haiti during the 19th century to the effect, dominicans are not exclusivley a black people nor are we haitians unless of course decrees made by the hatian government somehow are capable (cont'd

of altering reality. if that's the case,John, i suggest you get the haitian government to pass decress to end all the misery currently being endured by the haitian people.in all these postings it has become evident what is felt by many haitians. one can deduce that they see dr as a detached part of haiti and they are angry and frustrated that dominicans do not see themselves as so. get over it.we're two seperate peoples and will continue to be so.

by the way who here was debating what race dominicans are? if anyone is here trying to assign a race to the dominican people it is everyone that's posting here that's not dominican.that there is a negro element in the dominican population is as clear as day and i challenge anyone to find a statement made by me negating this. with that said that is not solely who we are as a people.we do not live by the one drop rule nor according to hysterical haitian proclamations.dominicans embrace(cont'd)

all the components that make up here gene pool.if we were to embrace the solely african aspect of our culture then we would negate so much of who we are and the same would be true if we only embraces our european or indian roots.we are a combination of many things.on what basis does our african cultural heritage negate all others?the basis for this only exists in the minds of those that wish to classify our people into something more palatable to themsleves for whatever reason.

J.F.G.Valerio, I admire your enthusiasm and pridefulness of being Dominican. As an American, I do not have a problem with Dominicans wanting to be just Dominicans as long they embrace their African lineage. One thing we must agree is that Dominicans and Haitians are not two separate peoples. Both Dominicans and Haitians share the same culture, ex,. eat rice and beans, and dance to meringue. The only difference between Dominicans and Haitians is their language.

John: I think u need to get on a plane and travel to Santo Domingo. Haitians dance Merengue? maybe according to you its the national dance of Haiti?

Valerio,

FYI: Santo Domingo is St. Dominic in English. St. Dominic (or Santo Domingo) was the leader and the founder of the Dominican Order (aka Order of Preachers) in Spain in the 1300's.

Santo Domingo and his Dominican Order were responsible for the genoicde of Hundreds of Thousands of Jews in Spain.

Not Ridiculous; a fact. Look it up.

Sorry Valario, you have been fooled for so long. Dominicanism is Racism and Bigotry. It has been for 700 years.

Jib,

Haitians dance what is called the Meringue, which is danced almost exactly like the Merengue of the eastern side, only slower and you turn to the left instead of the right. Same dance.

Today it is the dance of the Kompas Direct. The national music of Haiti. Same dance. If you speed up Kompas it becomes Merengue. The beat (like Salsa and Cumbia) comes from Africa.

Haitians eat rice and beans with plantanos and some kind of meat also, just like the people of the eastern side.

to Jib (contd)

only the language is different. But then again we are Latinos and we are speaking in English and that doesn't make us any less Latino.

BTW: Haitians are Latinos also, just like Brazilians. French is a Latin language, just like the Castillian language (that you may call Spanish) that is spoken on the eastern side.

Everyone just has bought into the bigotry and ignorance of La Trinataria. We need to break the chains and unite then the island will get somewhere.

Samuel, I see your are Dominican and your views are the total opposite of Valerio and jlb. Dominicans like you and Americans like me are needed in this world to fight cruelty, racism and evil. Best way to fight cruelty and racism is thru education. Best way to fight evil is thru love.

"Duarte chose the name (Dominicans) because it was in perfect allignment with his racist ideology".samuel,i must debunk your idiotic theory once and for all.Duarte did no such thing.Nunez de Caceres refers to the inhabitants of the spanish-speaking side of the islands as DOMINICANS in his declaration of independence againt spain in 1821 when duarte was but a mere child.I suggest serious study on your part before speaking with such certainty on any particular subject.

"One thing we must agree is that Dominicans and Haitians are not two separate peoples. Both Dominicans and Haitians share the same culture, ex,. eat rice and beans, and dance to meringue. The only difference between Dominicans and Haitians is their language."
all you've done is reinforce my earlier statement about haitians seeing dr as a detached part of haiti.

language is the main component of culture and the main uniter of peoples who see themselves as different from their neighbors,john. the czechs and the southern germans are a genetically similiar people with a similiar cuisine and both share central european affinities but tell them they are the same people and see what kind of response you'll receive.your concept of what constitutes a distinct grouping of peoples based on cultural traits needs some serious revision.

LOL!!

Valario,
Nunez de careres was decended from Spaniards. The same Spanish people that raped the land, killed the Tainos and enslaved the Africans. Why should we respect or follow him or Duarte as any leader? They don't speak for me.

The fact is that they both were racists and individuals who as children of invaders to the island have no legitamate claim to the land. They were rightfully expelled from the island and the country that they formed is racist and shoud be disbanded.

Valerio,

Nunez de Caceres didn't refer to the inhabitants as Dominicans. That made up when the Truijllo regime rewrote all of the history books. Even Frank Moya Pons gets all of his indengous "Dominican" information from books that were written btwn 1933 and 1959. Check the bibliography. There is not one book left in the country that has been untouched by Trujillo.

Amazing How a history can be created and taught to school children in 30 years?

And you guys believe this stuff! Silly Ra

Jose, i suggest you read the first dominican declaration of independence. there is a word for word reprint in english (translated from the original spanish by the books editors) of said document in the "Dominican People", published by markus Weiner and edited by Sagas and Inoa.In said docments Nunez de Caceres uses the word "Dominican" several times.what documentation do you have to back up your claim Jose?

you are entitled to your opinions, Samuel ,but the fact remains that your whole theory as to why dominicans are indeed called dominicans is in error.explain to me, then, why the french initially called there colony on the island Saint-Domingue? could it have something to do with the spanish city on hipaniola of the same name in spanish or were the french also trying to invoke a spanish order of murderous, racist zealots when they named their colony thus?

Valerio, you came to the USA when you were 3 years old. You are basically an American. As an American you should be aware that the government of DR and a small elite group of Dominicans rewrote the history of DR. Unless you belong to that small elite group, don't let yourself be fool by those who rewrote history of DR. Since you reside in the USA why don't you get together with your brothers and sisters from the western side of the Island and exchange views. This is America, it is possible

John, what documentation do you have to back up your hypothesis? what credentials do you have to make such a claim?note: i came here at 3 months old and i've mantained contact with my country of birth continuously whether it be through travel or communication.do not fool yourself into thinking that one is any less dominican or loves dr any less because they've spent their formative years here.currently, dr has a president that has at least that in common with me.

one can deduce that not only have some haitians chosen to believe that the bulk of dominican history is a fabrication and that dr is a detached part of haiti(note no one has come on here to debate the second notion. maybe now they will since i've pointed it out).there lies the haitian peoples' anger with the way the dominican state has decided to deal with illegal haitian immigration.they don't see themselves as what they indeed are when they step on dominican soil, as foreigners, and (cont'

(cont'd) they are incensed that the dominican people would treat them as such. it's almost a "how dare they" attitude and to wrap up this attitude with a cloak of righteous indignation they've(and their represantatives) chosen to play the race card in front of the rest of the world.well guess what? haitians are indeed foreigners on dominican soil and there are indeed two distinct states on hispaniola.haitians don't know what it is to hear their grandparents laugh to tres patines on the (cont

radio or stories of how their parents' freinds fell in love to a camilo sesto song nor have they filled stadiums full of fans singing along to ana gabriel songs. these are little nuances particular to the hispanic culture the dominicans share with the reat of the spanish speaking world and that hatians could never relate to.I'm not saying that the haitian nation and its culture is inferior or superior to that of the dominicans. I'm just saying it's two different animals all together and (con

the haitians as a people need to recognize and accept that.

Varerio,

It doesn't matter what Nunez de Carces said or what word he used. It seems to me that you are just emmoured with European culture and its values. Stop sweating them. It doesn't matter if the Freach called their colony St. Dominique or Santo Domingo; its still a colonial name from a foreign group of Europeans who have no claim to the land. The Haitian Liberation of the island expelled European INVADERS, RACISTS & MURDERERS. But you love them, so I know you won't see that.

John,

Valerio's arguements are typical of white americans when they ask for written proof of history, in an attempt to paint a picture of any culture with an oral history as not reliable. Anything black or Indigenous is a "theory" because a white man (or a colored person with a white view of the world) didn't write it. So Nunez de Caceres (who was white) counts, but others don't. God forbid we want to throw statues of Christopher Columbus into the sea. That would be "racism". LOL

I don't need to read the Dominican declaration of Independence. To me (and a lot of other people around the world) its not a legitamate country, no matter what you say. It is a 163 year occupation by the children of European colonial invaders and those who sympathize with them and their white-Catholic values.

FYI: Valerio,

Haitians know all about Cortijo y su Combo, Hector Lavoe, Celia Cruz and know many more merengue songs than you may think they do. As an American, living in NY maybe YOU should go to a Haitian party (SOB's has one every friday) to see for yourself how much Salsa they play, (that is Latin Music). The Copacabana in NY is filled with Haitians when a Salsa band comes to play. They know all about Camilo Sexto too. You show your limited exposure by your comments. U need to get out mo

Samuel, i had plenty of haitian freinds in college (very good people indeed) and even went to a few of their parties(did i mention i'm from brooklyn where there is a huge haitian presence?) and indeed those experiences have only helped reinforce what i already know, that haitian and dominican culture are distinct.never assume anything about someone you do not actually know.

p.s. being an aficionado of hispanic culture and actually being hispanic are two distinct things.

"The Haitian Liberation of the island expelled European INVADERS, RACISTS & MURDERERS" and replaced them with newly liberated slaves who INVADED and MURDERED their neighbors to the east and would eventually settle down to create a RACIST state that today is known as "the Black Republic". i wonder how incensed world reaction would be toward a nation that styles itself "the White Republic".

Valerio, Samuel is right. You need to get out more and congregate with your brothers and sisters from the western side of the Island. You might be surprise to what you might learn from them. Go out and have some fun. You came to the USA at 3 months old which make you an outsider to the Dominican people. You are an American just like me, so go out and have some fun. Stop being naive.

"Valerio's arguements are typical of white americans when they ask for written proof of history, in an attempt to paint a picture of any culture with an oral history as not reliable."
i asked for proof to back the claim that dominican history was distorted. what oral history are you referring to?do haitians have a oral history of the dominican republic that is somehow more reliable then anything that can be authenticated?

"You came to the USA at 3 months old which make you an outsider to the Dominican people."
My, my John. I'm surprised Leonel hasn't made you an ambassador yet seeing as how you speak with such authority on behalf of the dominican people.

i feel if your from any island, whether it be puerto rico, Dominican Republic, or any carribean islands you are part black. The Dominican people who are from the Dominican Republic are spanish but also have some black. Just like me I'm puerto Rican but some where I have black because being from and island, no one is pure, I feel Dominicans are not savages they are a loving culture of people just like us puerto ricans, it's sad to classify all Dominicans for a few bad ones.

Nationalism is such an 17th century concept especally in a post modern world. Rice and beans with platanos is rice and beans with platanos no matter which side of an imagined border they are made on. Valerio you seem very young or at best the child of immigrants. Puerto Ricans learned 40 years ago that just because you visit a place or may have fond memories of it doesn't make you from there. Just because my father was born in Boston doesn't make me a Bostonian. Maybe you will catch up later.

It's interesting. Usually the children of Immigrants feel this nationalist nostalgia based on an ideal of what a place is like in their parents memories. The fact is that if that place was so wonderful, they would have never left. Plenty of places have palm trees, beaches and mountains. Can you eat on a day to day basis, that is the question. The fact is your flag does not feed you. This movie played already 40 years ago with Puerto Ricans and we know how its going to end. Dont be so naive.

..the end of the movie is that you assimilate, marry people who's parents didn't come from where your parents came from and become part of America. It happend to the Irish, the Italians, the Puerto Ricans and the Cubans. It will happen to the Dominicans too. So you can wave your flag all you want but in the end your grandchildren will not be talking about how great the DR is. It's just another place on earth with palm trees.

samuel, you lack logic and you make idiotic statements without knowing about what you speak on. you never bothered to ask me if i've ever lived in dr for a protracted period of time, and indeed i have.as for nationalism it is alive and well with all those that love their country of origin even if it is just a group of palm trees.and indeed, if i am blessed with grandchildren they will share the same love for dr that their grandfather has.

as for puerto ricans. I grew up with many second and third generation puerto ricans and i can assure you that the fact that their families have spent several generations on the continental US has not diminished their love or observance of certain aspects of puerto rican culture.ever heard the saying "no naci en puerto rico. puerto rico nacio en mi"?good thing you're not posting with your family name.i'd be loath to take absolute credit for ignorant comments such as yours myself.

"Nationalism is such an 17th century concept especally in a post modern world."
that's funny coming from someone who's practically filled this post with ridiculous haitian propaganda. i guess nationalism is passe' when it stems from someone else besides yourself.

Spanish "family" names are for the most part slave names. They are not any indication of heritage. There are plenty of black americans who have the names "Jefferson", "Smith" and "Johnson" it doesn't make them come from England. Now I can see why you love the DR so much, you lived there and were educated under their brainwashing system which has not changed since the days of Trujillo.

From Haiti nothing good has ever come, nothing but misery, invasion, and poor people, who in their haydays ruled over the island and mistreated the dominicans. DOMINICAN REPUBLIC bares no responsibility for Haiti or her people. You who support Haiti are too focused on what we dominicans do, Why don't you try to place blame on your people and politicians instead of us. From what i've read, according to John + Samuel, Haiti's misery is because of DR. Its a load of garbage

Carloman from Brooklyn New York, As an American I applaud you for expressing your feelings. I am glad to learn that misery and poor people do not exist in the DR. The drug trade, prostitution, and corruption must have transformed DR into a country of millionaires.

I am not Dominican yet I visit the country every month for business I have observed the tolerance of the Dominican people towards those that come to visit or do business there. I can only express my own experience and that is of a welcoming people that are friendly and open their hearts and houses to strangers. I truly hope that if there is racism against the hatians it will remain with only a few not the societey as a whole.

"The drug trade, prostitution, and corruption must have transformed DR into a country of millionaires."

And yet haitian find it better than living in their own country, right John. By the way you forgot to comment on the other bit of my last statement. about haiti's solution to its problem are not found in the DR. i want to hear your answer, again you are avoiding the real issue!!!!

Carlos Franco, I agree with you that DR is to poor to solve Haiti's problems. The solution to Haiti's problems are the Haitians themselves with some aid from rich countries like the USA, France, Canada, and any other rich countries who want to help the poor people of Haiti. The Haitian people paid the price for being the first country to abolished slavery. It is time for those countries who isolated Haiti help Haiti become the country it should have been.

dominicans share very similar cultures to haitians excluding the fact that one speaks haitian creole and the other spanish. Haitians are predominately black while dominicans are predominately "mulatto" (which means part black). 3.8 million dominicans are of black descent ya'll could look it up. History is history...so wat if haiti invaded the dr a century ago its history. u cant hold haiti accountable now for wat happened in the late 1800s to early 1900s....its ridiculous.

Dominican policy is racist to an extent because if they believe Haitians are a threat to the dr's stability and economy then why would they willingly take in so many of them to work on the cane fields. A DR representative has said himself that Haitians hold up the economy by working the cane fields for low wages and that the DR needed them. So y discriminate them and beat them for stupid reasons. Haiti holds no grudge against the DR so y should the DR. The DR needs to recognize its African

heritage alongside its Spanish heritage and stop hatin on Haiti. Its one island one people.........grow up. Its just by chance that Haiti is more black than the DR but the culture is essentially the same in a different language. If Haiti spoke Spanish or if the DR spoke creole (in which populations of both countries speak) and there was one government it wouldn't be 2 countries but one.

Sorry Mr. Spooky4XL, that formula that you proppose so happily didn't work in the past, when economical and ecological problems where less pressing than today. In light of this fact, do you truly believe that experiment would work today?. By the way, the DR-Haiti case isn't the only one in the world of two nations sharing one island, or have you forgotten the case of Cyprus with it's Greek and Turkish halves?

As for the culture, Mr. Spooky4XL, it is a gross distortion of the truth to say that the culture in both sides of the island is essentially the same. For your information, the majority of the dominican population is of the Catholic faith, while Vodoun it's the main faith of the Haitian population. More thruthful would be to say that we, the dominicans, are more closer culturally to the Cubans or Puerto Ricans than the haitians (because of our common Taino, Hispanic and African origins).

I think that it's time for the haitians to finally stop seeing us dominicans as a "rebel province" , and instead to see us for what we are, a country that has gained it's right to be in the concert of nations.

Hey Spooky here's a history lesson for you. In 1844, after 22 years of occupation haitians still referred to dominicans as spaniards. We were different then, we are different now. so what if haiti invaded us? perhaps if it had been the other way around it would mean something to you. And why exacly does haitians want to be part of dominican republic, what is it that you haitians hope to obtain in our land that you can't fight for it in haiti.

And as for being related, i agree with Enriquillo1982, we are more similiar in language, culture, racial make-up and religion to any country in latin america than haiti.

Haitians are Black and speak bad-french (creole)
Dominicans are Spanish, Black, Tainos, Arab, Catholic and speak the language of Don Quijote with a cibaeño accent! LOL

needless to say "Different"

Also, my friend Carlos Franco, the peculiar accent of the southern provinces (Bani, Azua, Barahona, Pedernales, Elias Piña and San Juan de la Maguana) with their "erres". LOL!!

Dominicans practice voodou just like the Haitians. The majority of the Haitian population is of the catholic faith just like the Dominicans. Haitians are Black and Dominicans are Black. Haitians speak creole, french and spanish and Dominicans speak spanish. Any intelligent person would conclude that Haitians and Dominicans are the same people. The problem is that Dominicans hate their Blackness and on the other hand the Haitians embrace their Blackness. 1 people 2 nations. STOP THE HATE.

You're so wrong Mr. John, because dominican society is, first and foremost, a multicultural society. You'll have to be blind not to see the relatively large amounts of people of Chinese, Spanish, Italian and Arabic descent living in the National District (soon there will be a Chinatown near San Carlos). So, my friend, it's a wrong assumption to presume that dominicans are entirely as you're currently doing.

As for the vodou, you have to take into account that this worship has been brought to this country by the haitian inmigrants. Because the african slaves that were brought by the spanish were fully integrated into the Catholic faith, you only have to look for the Cofradias founded by this people that were granted official sanction by the Pope.

If you doubt my claims of multiculturalism, you only need to visit some sectors in the Distrito Nacional, namely, Los Cacizcagos, Piantini, Naco, Anacaona, Arroyo Hondo, Fernandez, Julieta. Or to visit the following schools: Carol Morgan, St. George, ABC, the Dominico-Americano, Quisqueya, among others. So, my dear friend John "Only the truth shall set us free". Stop buying the haitian propaganda and start seeing things for yourself.

Also, my friend John. How would you explain the the haitian authorities during the occupation (1822-1844) persistence for suppresing the Spanish language and customs in this country? Language, my friend, is the first sign of cultural difference among the people on this island. How would you explain then, dominican people's insistence to be free, going as far as defending the country against repeated attempts at reconquest by the haitians in twelve years of grueling war (1844-1856)?

Finally, my friend John, I have to "enlighten" you on two things, the first one is that only the haitians of the elite speak french, the vast majority of the population (95%) only speaks creole, as for the spanish, only the illegals on our country speak it (because they need to in order to survive, not for the sake of learning it), as for the myth of Catholicism being the religion of Haiti, they are only catholics outwardly, because inwardly they keep all their voudun practices, for them (cont.)

cont... for them, both religions don't excluded each other. In other words, you're only wha you're at heart, and they at heart, are vodoun practicioners.

Dear Enriquillo 1982, you claimed DR is a multicultural society but Dominicans do not accept their African heritage. Even though Dominicans look like people of African descent, they look down on Black people. This is self hatred. The slave treatment of the Haitians due to their darker complexion is one example that proves DR does not accept "Black" people as part of its society. Many African-Americans complain of the poor treatment they received when they traveled to the DR for vacations.

My dear friend John, if there were really a widespread hatred for Black People as you claim, would we dance with the "Guloyas" from San Pedro de Macoris, which are from British West Indian and Haitian descent? Would we look with gratefulness the people of Samaná, which are from African American origin in their majority, people who have enriched our language with their use of XIX century english vocabulary (which in their opinion is better than the english used nowadays)?. cont...

cont...please mr. John, pay a visit to San Pedro de Macoris and ask them (The Guloyas) if they have experienced hatred from the people.

I have been reading some of your earlier posts, John, and I have to say that you have some gross misconceptions about the situation of the haitians in DR. First, (and I'm witness to this), the majority of them come and go as they please at the streets of the National District. In fact, the so called migration raids are minimal if you compare them with the ones that happen everyday on Madrid and Paris (why don't you talk about those!?), even though our migration problems are worse than theirs.

The second thing is, if you're attacking us for our social "blanquismo", why don't you attack the haitian elite's "Black Supremacy" policy? That is, the prohibition for foreigners (specially white people) of having lands and property in Haiti. How can you accuse us of being racists when the haitians style themselves "The Black Republic"? Tell me, it's this not racist enough for you? What would you think about some european nation styling themselves "The White Republic"?

You only have to read their constitution, then, I'm sure you'll understand our misgivings about having a political association of any kind with them. Heck, their current economical, political and social backwardness justify in every sense our stubborn defense of our independence from them.

John: In the US, other black people from the lesser antilles look down on Haitians. Trinidarians, Jamaicans and people from Granada, i have heard them speak in a bad tone and wish not to associate themselves with Haitians and yet you only speak about dominicans... I wont say more because Enriquillo1982, in his last post, said it well enough

John: In the US, other black people from the lesser antilles look down on Haitians. Trinidarians, Jamaicans and people from Granada, i have heard them speak in a bad tone and wish not to associate themselves with Haitians and yet you only speak about dominicans... I wont say more because Enriquillo1982, in his last post, said it well enough

Enriquillo1982, The european nations styling themselves as the "White Republic" happened long time ago, that is call the Holocaust and Slavery.

Carlos Franco: I speak about the Dominicans because Dominicans inflict intensive distress to the Haitians. It is true that other groups might look down on Haitians just like other groups look down on Dominicans, but you don't see those groups that look down on the Haitians raping and burning Haitian children or those groups that look down on the Dominicans raping and burning Dominican children. But, you do see Dominicans raping and burning Haitian and their children.

John: you are right, it does happen, but it is not state sponsored, unless we are talking about Trujillo. Sporadic violence that occur between our two country dates back from colonial times.

Because of the Haitian dog eat dog behavior since theii rebellion (i will not call revolution) they have destroyed the country and have become a nuisance to the world in and the Dominican Republic in particular. Dominicans can not be blamed if at times they get fed up and react with all the haitians being dumped in their country and who are competing for they mere resources that they have.

My friend John, you only have to look at our common history. That way you'll see that we dominicans have ALWAYS been on the defensive against haitian expansionistic policies. We lost the towns of the Artibonite valley that way (Hinche, Las Cahobas, St. Michel de la Atalaye, St. Raphael), so you cannot blame us for reacting like we do. Can you, or anyone else for that matter, prove us that, if they had the power, they (the haitians) would not try to erase us from the face of the earth?

and speaking about distress, John, did you know that the haitians, when they ruled the entire island, tried to outlaw the use of Spanish and Catholicism, and, to add insult to injury, they not only tried to make us pay part of their "Independece Debt" with France, but also outlawed schools and learning centers all over the country (the closing of the Santo Domingo University being and example)? You'll have to excuse us if we have misgivings about granting political rights to that ethnic minorit

Lastly, my friend John, every major war that the dominican people have fought, be the enemy french, haitian, spanish or american, have been to defend every inch of land and the right of our families to speak its native tongue and exercise its religion. The dominicans haven't fought imperial wars attacking other people's homelands (unless you count the brigade that went to Irak, but that's another story). Every inch of land defended represents our inalienable right to freedom, because this (co

cont... our land is the only one on the entire planet where we're not foreigners. If the haitians have renounced to fight for their rights on their own land that's their problem, but they have absolutely no right to demand on my country what they didn't have the guts to fight for on their own country. Why they just can't stop remembering their past glories and finally start to emulate them? I'm sure that the ancient colonist elite was more powerful than the actual elites, so why (cont....)

the reluctance to fight them? Is it not an act of cowardice and betrayal to the memory of their founding fathers and to demand of another country what they're not willing to fight for on their land?

Enriquillo: Dominicans fear of Haitians invading them is pure ignorance & hatred. Haiti is a poor country with no army. But, I respect DR for protecting its borders with Haiti as long it's not done out of hatred. As an American I'm in favor of sending all "illegal" aliens in the USA back to their countries. As an American I'm in favor of securing our border. As an American I'm in favor of "legal" migration to the USA. The USA welcome all people entering the USA legally. There is no hat

John: Enriquillo makes good points, none of which, you seem to acknowledge. Haiti is poor and weak today but when their weren't they used their power to hammer us and in the process humilated us. The present is a continuation of the past and just as african americans, jews, and armenians as well as other, can't get over their past history, why then is it so difficult for you to acknowledge our suspicions of haiti. Is not as if we have not experience it at all and made it all up!

cont... DR borders only one country and so our focus is directed towards that... The border region is were the homeland begins and our history has told us to be on the look out for our ambitious neighbors who place their country and culture above all, by force if they have to. You speak of moving on... Has haity change? How do we know? We on the other hand have no ambitions on haity for we have the power to invade it and yet we don't.

Carlos Franco: I acknowledge your suspicions of Haiti as long its not done out of hatred. Every country has a right to protect it's border and at the same time every human being has a right to be treated fairly and attentively.

I thank you both, John and Carlos Franco for giving me your respectives point of views. You'll have to forgive me if I have somewhat harsh or biting in my answers, but one cannot help but being a little paranoid about homeland self defense on this "preventive war" era. After all, we dominicans have the duty to be vigilant if we don't want to have a repetition of the serbian tragedy, who ended up losing Kosovo because they couldn't stop albanese encroachments on their territory in time. Cont..

Cont... my two greatest fears are: No. 1- having a "serbian tragedy" repeat itself on my own country or worse, no. 2- That if the haitian minority gains too much strenght on the DR, it would end up giving birth to another "comprador elite" which would end up destroying my country the same way they destroyed theirs. You'll have to know that, sadly, the haitian history is a big succesion of coups, civil wars, and other acts of bloodshed that can make even the most valiant of men shudder in horror

Lastly, my friend John, just to show you my "ignorance" about Haiti: Did you know that the majority of the presidents of Haiti since their independence (1804) to the present day have ended up assasinated or exiled, and that only a selected few have ended their mandates (you can count them with your hands fingers). Just to name a few of them, Tancrede Auguste (the grandfather of the celebrated writer Jacques Roumain) and Francoise Duvalier (Papa Doc), and that is because they died on power.

Enriquillo 1982: You should not fear of having an educated elite class of Haitians in the DR. Haitian elite will benefit DR just like the Chinese, Spaniards, Italians and Americans. Just look at the USA. The USA is the number one country in the world because it is a melting pot of many nationalities. And don't forget that the USA has interest in DR's sugar industry, therefore will not let any country invade DR.

Sadly, my friend John, in this case I'm like Saint Thomas: "I will only believe it when I see it". Regrettably, that elite have had as leaders and social arquetypes people like Guy Phillipe and Emanuel "Toto" Constant, which are nothing more than butchers and murderers. In fact, you can ask any of your haitian friends anything about those two, they might tell you a thing or two about them.

JOHN. WE DOMINICAN DON`T WANT THE HATIAN PERIOD.

Enriquillo1982, I interviewed many Haitians in regard to Guy Phillipe and Emanuel Constant. They all agreed that both subjects are butchers and murderers supported and funded by the elite Dominicans to butcher and murder the Haitians. I also interviewed many Dominicans which agreed with the Haitians that the elite Dominicans and its leaders have an agenda to annihilate the Haitians. If that's the case the elite haitians fit perfectly in Dominican society.

Carlos Liriano, I see you are in the USA (New Jersey). Some people in the USA do not want Dominicans to come to the USA but you came anyway. If you don't want the Haitians period. Just return to DR and place yourself at the border to stop the Haitians from entering DR. If more Dominicans stayed in the DR and work the sugar plantation there won't be any room for the Haitians. Problem solved.

The only problem with that reasoning, John, is that, when the time for cilvil unrest and disorders arrives (with the haitians it always does), the only ones which end up paying up the sins of the upper classes are we, the citizens of the middle classes and the poor. The elites only have to pack their things, take a private jet, and be on Florida with you and your "abolitionist" friends laughing at our misery and troubles. And I say "abolitionist" because from what I've seen, you've been (cont

(cont...) busy pointing out the sins of the dominican elite (not that they're innocent, mind you), while you olimpically ignore the role that the haitian elites are playing on this disaster. The haitan elites are the ones who are selling their kinsmen to the dominican elites, but these people, apparently, don't deserve your notice. May I ask you, what's the reason for that? what you, americans need to understand is that you can't analyze this problem by simply reducing it to be a racial pro

and that, in this tragedy, there is more than one party culprit of the problem. From my point of view, this tragedy will only be solved when the international community and the haitian ruling classes finally realize that they can't let this problem be only for the Dominican Republic to solve, that their irresponsibility will only accelerate the arrival of more boat people to the Florida straits or to the Mona Channel, only that, if that dreaded hour arrives the boatpeople would be of both(cont.

of both haitian and dominican extraction.

Tell me, John. What do you believe will be the answer of your coast guard to that avalanche of people from both sides? Will they use them as target practice? As food for the sharks? or will they ram their boats as the coast guards from Bahamas did with 200 haitian boat people this year?

Enriquillo1982, The focus is on the Dominican elites because the Dominican elites are the ones spreading this racist ideology against the Haitians within DR and also assisting the Haitian elites to destabilize Haiti to keep the poor Haitians poorer and uneducated. The Haitian elites are responsible for Haiti's demised, but without the aide from the Dominican elites their (Haitian elites) agenda to keep the poor haitians poorer and uneducated would have failed.

Enriquillo1982, The international communities are doing their best to aide the poor Haitians out of their plight. But, the stuborness of both the Haitian elites and Dominican elites to cooperate with the international communities is driving Haiti further into abject poverty. The Dominican elites have to stop destabilizing Haiti and the Haitian elites have to let the poor Haitians evolve and only then Haiti will change. A prosperous Haiti is better for everyone.

Enriquillo1982, The U.S coast guards treat all illegals trying to enter the USA with dignity. The cost guards process all illegals and safely return all illegals to their country. The U.S coast guards provide the illegals with food, clothing and money before returning them to their country. As for the Bahamian coast guards there's no proof that they rammed the boat carrying 200 illegal Haitians.

Oh, please John, forgive me if I sound "offensive" to your country, but you're talking abut the country were eugenics (the "science" that establish that the success of human beings is based on how near the "white, anglo-saxon and protestant" model they are) was born. You're talking about the country of the civilian frontier minutemen (Even we, dominicans, having a migrational problem more worse than yours haven't gotten that far). Of the one of the imperial preventive wars, etc. cont...

(cont...) maybe if we'd been talking about Canada, your words would have, infinitely, more weight. But we're talking about a country that, with all its power and might, still haven't relocated or helped at all the victims of hurricane Katrina, because the majority of those victims are African Americans, and lastly, of a country were its native people are condemned to be enclosed on "reservations", a decent word to use on glorified concentration camps.

Enriquillo1982, Today we Americans are leaving in a new America where every American is afforded an opportunity to better himself or herself regardles of race, color, sex, or nationality. Every person that enters the USA legally is also provided that same opportunity and the means to become an American citizen. The USA is the #1 and best country in the world. As far as DR, Dominicans are leaving in the past where race, color, sex, or nationality is still a problem.

America is really No. 1 country in the world. Have you been outside of this country? Now don't get me wrong, I love this country but it isn't unpatriotic to say that other states such as France, England, Germany, Japan, The Netherlands, and others have a better life quality for its citizens....

John: Go to New Orleans, and perhaps you'll feel right at home. Step out 15 minutes away from the city and the whites there will look at you with desire to lynch you, if you're not white. By america you can't just describe New York or the big cities, so spare me the "in america everyone is equal..." NOT EVERYWHERE JOHN, very few places in fact... Also i have been to Europe, America is far behind those countries in education, healthcare for its citizens ect. can you say that cont

Carlos Franco: Yes, America is the number one country in the world. Everyone no matter which countries they are from would rather live in the USA. Born in the USA and proud to be an American. There's no place like the USA. Caucasians , African Americans, and Hispanics live side by side. America is a nation of caring and loving people. God bless America.

John: You're right, America is a great country. However, West European countries have a better pention system for it aging citizens. Better education for its youngs, Universal healthcare among other things.... America has a higher per capital than these countries but yet they have it better. How so? watch c-span and look at English democracy, Blair got hammered by its goverment and people, who's hammering bush, There are no limits to his powers. Not exacly "checks + balance" isn't it.

America needs a goverment that isn't influenced by big corporations, oil, tabacco, ect... We need a need a new foreign policy and we need to go back to the days prior to world war II, when america wasn't an internationalist country and wasn't involving its young people in wars so far from home. Alaska has plenty of oil, we don't need to kill iraqis for their oil. Don't get me wrong John, I am a patriot, and i proudly served in the Army.

Carlos: As an American I acclaim your services in our army. God bless you and all the men and women serving in our armed forces. Our foreign policy is great. Fight the wars away from home and spread democracy. We are the world's number one super power therefore gives us right to police the world.

John: Democracy comes as a result of victory, not defeat. American export of democracy has never worked out. President Wilson tried it and because the elements that make democracy work were absent, its export failed miserably, bringing Hitler and Mussolini to power. DR has also received American Export of democracy. True democracy was born 52 after, when balaguer (american supported) was defeated playing by his own rules and not by the American military.

After World War I, Europeans (eastern) were subject to imposed democracy and they rejected it. After the defeat of communism, democracy had is grounds to stand upon. Poland, Hungary, and a few others are great example of the failure of imposed democracy.

Well John, if you want more information about the failings of the american health system, you only need to see Michael Moore's new documentary "Sicko". For me, it's such a pity having to tell this to you, when you're supposed to be acquainted with the realities of YOUR country. Carlos, is right, the coverage for accidents in the european healt systems is WAY better than the american one. I even heard about the case about an american woman who had to go Canada to have (cont...)

(cont) to have a surgery done to her, because the american health system was asking her to pay US$60,000.00 for the operation.

You'll have to excuse me if I ask you this, John, but I'm curious: Are you a neoconservative republican? because only from them (and on one or two democrats out of their minds) I have heard the imperialist discourse that you're supporting. Also, I recommend you to search for the United Nations, World Bank and IMF statistics about international welfare, you'll be surprised to find that the U.S. isn't the no. 1 in the welfare of its citizens, last I heard the no. 1's in recent years (cont)

(cont..) have been the Netherlands, Switzerland and the Scandinavian states (Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland). And before you say something about those institutions being anti-American, I have to remind you that those international institutions receive their main financial backing from the U.S. government. Have a nice day.

Welcome back Enriquillo1982. Your views of America not being #1 is wrong. Thanks for caring about my day.

Well John, suit yourself. It's not my fault that you're still wanting to maintain what in my opinion is a very narrow minded view about reality.

Enriquillo1982, Reality is that everyone wants to come to America. Why? The answer is because America provides everyone the means to achieve a decent way of life. Don't blame America If any American or non-American fail to achieve the American dream. America stands alone as the #1 country on earth. We Americans earned the right to be #1 and the right to police the world. This view is supported by both republicans and democrats. God bless America.

The Greatest power on earth was The Roman Empire, and she too fell. In truth every country at some point has the opportunity to act with impunity, but those that make it right? Our decisions to police the world my dear John, is based on self interest rather than whats actually best for the people concerned. Alot of people dying in this world today, Angola, Haiti and other and because we don't have any interest there, we (America) don't intervene.

We are not policing Iraq John, we're robbing them in broad daylight. Would it be ok if Canadians or mexican would invade america to steal her resources... How would you feel them? Indee, God Bless America!!!

My American brother Carlos Franco, There are no countries on earth that would dare attempt to invade America. And if any countries try to invade they will pay a hefty price. Our country under the leadership of president Bush is heading in the right direction. Invasion by Mexico is very unlikely because Mexico can not even feed its people. Canadians would rather the U.S annex Canada. As for people dying in other countries, what that has to do with the U.S. People dying is part of life.

John: The world has not stopped spinning. What was Germany to the Romans?... Barbarians, what is Germany today... EUROPE'S RICHEST COUNTRY. The fact that mexico is poor today doesn't mean they'll be poor in the next 100 years. Mexico is poor because of curruption not because they lack resources. If curruption were to stop, mexico would become a world power. I don't know much about canada but i know a big part of it (quebec) would rather be independent or french than be an American state.

John, what Carlos Franco is trying to ask you is how would you feel, as an american, if the two aforementioned countries (Canada and Mexico) had the power to invade your country and suddenly commit the deed. What he's trying to tell you is that, for once, to put yourself on the mind frame of an Iraki of and Afghan, or are you so dim-witted that you can't feel a thing called empathy for the people who are currently suffering the consequences of the wild ambition of your imperial country?

Also, John, you have to understand that in the history of humanity, empires are destined to come and go. Who in their time would have tought that the british empire would be dismantled, or that the invincible military might of the napoleonic armies could be defied? and yet this two empires came to be defeated. Surely you must know by now that your haitian friends can't cease in their boasting about how their ancestors defeated the then invincible napoleonic army in their war for independence?

Enriquillo1982: Name calling will not get your point across. As a Dominican maybe you can see yourself in the mind frame of an Iraqi or Afghan. As an American I can not see myself in the mind frame of terrorists.

How bad do you want it? and what are you willing to do and sacrifice to bring pain to those that have caused you such misery. Moving on, is not an option after you have sustained such losses. What would you do, i wonder? You are arrogant and so are the people who rule this country, such mentality is the source of all human grief and what will cause the demise of this country. we should forget the arabs and let them live as they've always lived, IT'S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS!!!!

The Japanese started using Kamakase attacks after 1943 when the tide of war turned against them. Its an act of desperation and one can not blame these people, who's family have been killed and lives destroyed, to want vengance at any cost, even at the expense of their own lives. John, if you had a family and they were killed by a missile fired from a (i.e) canadian warship , all of them, your wife, and childrens, wouldn't you want revenge? cont....

I misjudged you John. I thought I was talking to an Educated intelligent person. Not all Iraqis and Afghans are terrorist!!! They are people like us, who care for their children and want to live their lives in peace. and since am sure you're not aware off, the west attack them first, they are just responding in the ways they can. If arabs had the tanks and the airforce that the we posseses they wouldn't be blowing themselves up, they would be fighting on the battle fields. cont....

Carlos Franco, listen to yourself trying to sound sympathetic. You are the one that wanted to repatriate all the Haitians in DR back to Haiti and then built a wall to keep them out. I guess you rather accompany yourself with people that are willing to blow themselves away than poor people that are trying to improve their lives. If their is ignorance by anyone, it is you; not by me , not by my country or my leaders.

The difference, John is that the US is and imperial superpower, the DR is not, in the US case, the building of a wall is a show of imperial arrogance, when in the DR case is a measure of self-defense. Your country vastly outvast the DR in wealth, so you may as well allow yourself to ignore your migrational problems, the DR can't allow itself that kind of luxury. US culture is powerful enough to include the mexican inmigrants in your "melting pot", the DR culture is not strong enough to (cont...

(cont...) withstand the onslaught of aprox. 10,000,000 more inhabitants with all their dreadful cultural vices (voudun, economical habits detrimental to the environment, the use of an idiom impairs tehcnolgical learning ). John, it's a crime to compare a 9,500,000km2 economical juggernaut with 48,442km2 Third World country which is barely surviving its own Third World problems and which have the risk of dissapearing as a distinct national entity if the current migrational problems persist.

Just for your benefit, John, I'll give you an historical reccount of the facts: In 1924, after the US marines left the DR, the frontier zone was left demilitarized, which some haitian peasants took as a chance to migrate and occupy dominican lands, which at that time were more fertile because the haitian ones were starting to suffer the effects of a century of economic mismanagement. In least than 13 years, that is, until the massacre of 1937, the haitian population in the frontier zone (cont.)

(cont...) grew so much that they changed the economical currency of the zone (the haitian gourde substituted the peso as the trade coin over there), the religious habits (voudun was the chief religion) and language (creole). If Trujillo haven't asserted military control of the zone (even though he could have used another methods, for instance, mass deportations like Batista did in Cuba in 1934), the Dominican Republic wouldn't exist today, because the conditions that made (cont..)

also, let me give you a lesson in politics, the same people that give your social security, medical benefits, and all that little crap you think americans are the only ones getting, these politicians order the deaths of others outside of this country, since they are protected while still the USA and not harming americans themselves. P.S. ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!!!

Your president is a criminal, and because citizens who backed them, such as yourself, I sometimes wonder, if at all, they are not so wrong at attacking civilians, since that is where their strenght lies. unfortunately, the civilians that get killed are the ones that don't support bush.

so i say again, i doubt your intelligence, you certanly had me fooled, The USA, invaded another country half way around the world, for oil, but most ignorant americans such as yourself, still thinK that if was for your protection. perhaps if you were on the ground in iraq or been the family of one of the soldiers killed, perhaps then you would be more inclinded to see things for what they are!!!

(cont...) Haiti's current poverty and devastation would have reproduced themselves on dominican soil. Have Trujillo let things take its natural course, the moneyed and middle class people of the country (people who have the know-how neccesary to build a country) would have fled from the country, fearing suffering from the effects of the dictatorship of the anarchy that characterize the haitian populace just like the french suffered it during the revolution which destroyed that colony. (cont...

John: Once again you avoided the question i asked, and completely turned it around. But i will none the lest answer your reply. I don't advocate the invation of haiti in spite of all the hardships that we suffer from being attached to that country and we have many, none of which, you care to see from our perspective. You said, "look at you trying to sound sympathetic" Look at your self, trying to support an idiot like bush. Who is in fact killing people by the thousands, for "America's safety"

In short, John, the countries are like the people, a thing which for a country is a blessing, for others is a curse and a poison of the worst kind. Saludos.

Enriquillo1982, Here you go again with your Haitian rhetoric, talking about invasion. What invasion? DR and it's leaders tried to justify the massacre of the Haitians by claiming "INVASION". DR was not at war with Haiti, therefore you can not justify the massacre. What DR and its leaders did was comit a crime against humanity. DR and it's leaders murdered innocent human beings because of their color, religion and language. You tell me whose the CRIMINAL and FASCIST.

Haitians don't respect themselves John. People say that Trujillo was bad but i rather have Trujillo than "Papa Doc." He at least advance his country while the latter only exploited it...

Haiti's misery stems from Haitians or at least 99% of it

Look who's talking, your government did the same thing with the mexicans and native americans in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, California and Nevada, by the hundreds of thousands, just to steal about 4,000,000 km2 of territory. Do you want me to keep telling you whose crimes are the worst, John?

Dominicans don't respect themselves either, Carlos Franco. To engage a whole country in corruption and drug trafficking is not respectful at all. Trujillo and Pappa Doc are from the same tribe (KKK). Neither of them deserved to have been born. Haiti's misery stems from years of embargo, Dominican Republic intrusion, and the international communities refusal to accept Haiti as the first country of people of color to freed themselves and abolished slavery.That refusal resulted in isolation of H

"Dominican republic intrusion" "involve a whole country in drug trafficking" seriously john where do you get your facts from. The DR does not intruded on haitian politics, is actually THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Every Country was isolated in the 19th century John. European countries had their own colonies to get sugar from, why buy it from free countries when they can get it cheaper on their own colonies. that Mary Jane you're smoking must be of some quality.

SO WHAT IS RACISM WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAID.NOBADY HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL A NATION TO LOVE SOME PEOPLE THEY DONT WANT.AND IT LOOK THAT IS A WASTED OF TIME ARGUING WITH SOMEBODY LIKE THAT MAN SO CALLED JOHN AND EXPLAIN TO HIM THE REASON DOMINICAN DONT TRUST OR WANT HAITIAN.TELL MODONNA&ANGELINA JOLIE TO GO TO HAITI AND ADOPT THEM ALL.

Carlos Liriano, Many in America do not want you and don't like you but you are here anyway. Why? What are we to do with you. Maybe treat you like you treat the Haitians since you don't think it's racism and deport you to DR. Once you are in DR making a $1 a day, you can put yourself on the border and keep the Haitians out. Please stop screaming. We live in a civilize society.

Carlos Liriano, no one is telling Dominicans to love the Haitians. The suggestion is to respect the Haitians and treat the Haitians the way you like to be treated. Stop lynching, burning and killing the Haitians. This behavior is barbaric.

Carlos Franco, you are so naive. Where do you get your facts from that every counrty was isolated in the 19th century. The isolation of Haiti was about fear. The fear that the blacks from Haiti would march and free other slaves from other slave holding countries. It had nothing to do with getting cheaper merchandise from somewhere else. Haiti did in fact assisted Simon Bolivar in liberating South America.

In Haiti Simon Bolivar gathered a force that landed in Venezuela in 1816, and took Angostra (now Ciudad Bolivar). He also became dictator there.

Bolivar marched into New Granada in 1819. He defeated the Spaniards in Boyar in 1819, liberating the territory of Colombia. He then returned to Angostura and led the congress that organized the original republic of Colombia (now Ecuador, Colombia, Panama, and Venezuela). Bolivar became its first president on December 17, 1819.

Bolivar crushed the Spanish army at Carabobo in Venezuela on June 24, 1821. Next, he marched into Educador and added that territory to the new Colombian republic. After a meeting in 1822 with another great liberator, Bolivar became dictator of Peru. His army won a victory over the Spaniards at Auacucho in 1824, which needed Spanish power in South America. Upper Peru became a separate state, named Bolivia in Bolivar's honor, in 1825.

The constitution, which Simon Bolivar drew up for Bolivia, is one of his most important political pronouncements.

The proof of the outright infamy of your accusations, John, is: 1- The existence of and haitian student population of 12,000 people in our universities and 2- The attention that our hospitals care to give to hatian pregnant women, even though everybody knows about how destitute of means our hopsitals (specially the public ones) are. Tell me, John, in what slavocracy have you heard that the slaves have freedom of movement, of receiving education and medical atttention? (cont..)

I know that these facts will be too much for you to swallow John (specially knowing as we do how a thoroughly have you swallowed the anti-dominican propaganda of those accursed NGO's that are striving to achieve our dissolution as a nation), but the facts are the facts. Finally, you must know that first, the bateyes model was created by the american sugar industries that came with the first amercian occupation of the territory, and second, that those same industries are the ones (cont...)

(cont....) who maintain that same model today, specially the New York and Florida based Fanjul family. So if you have any grievances from your haitian friends, please direct them to that family (I think their company is called Flo-Sun). So, would you stop sullying my country with your groundless accusations, please?

There's a difference between getting help from someone and agreeing with his ideas, John. I'm not denying that Haiti's help would be crucial for Bolivar's project, in fact, it was that very help that prompted Bolivar to free the slaves on every state he liberated. But he did that, John, out of political necessity, because Bolivar wanted to avoid a repetition of Haiti's devastating social war in venezuelan soil AT ALL COST. (cont...)

In fact, every major Bolivarian biography of the time states clearly Bolivar's fears on that account. A fact that accounts for that is that the spaniards used the african slaves captained by Boves to strike fear on the hearts of the native landlords. Another fact, that accounts for Bolivar's insincere friendship for Haiti is the fact that HE DIDN'T INVITE Haiti to the first panamerican congress, and instead invited England. ENGLAND, for God's sake, an European empire. Did you get the picture

In short, Bolivar only liberated the slaves only out of political expediency, to stop the Spaniards from ever using them as a weapon again.

to the United States just as DR and Cuba and some countries in central america. never once have i heard you put the blame for haiti's misery on haitians... with you is always somebody elses fault... GROW UP.... Haitians are not the only ones facing discrimination in this world

History lesson John: Globalization is actually a new thing. Agroexport started in the in the late 19th century and early 20th century mainly after WWI, thats when countries such as those in Latin America and other free states including haiti started to become exporting nation, "sugar" mainly. There were few countries that traded in the 19th century (unlike today) and they were mainly european "british + French". You keep talking of haitian isolation... why.... haiti had sugar quota exports...

Dear Carlos Franco,

Americans can use the same responses to you. We owe the Dominican people nothing and if some are here illegally we should be able to treat them the same way Hatians are treated in the Dominican Republic.

Dear Dginki

You americans ARE using the same responses. In fact, you are ven harsher than us dominicans when it comes to inmmigration policy (your inmigrant population represents only a 10% of the population, while on the DR is 20%). Please, spare us your condescending tone, because if anyone have been ruthless to the haitian people it has been you, americans. You and your friend John can't deny this, because it's seem daily on your different treatment to Cuban boat people (cont...)

(cont..) while you avoid granting the same rights of the cubans to the haitians, which, compared to the cubans, they are in a more dire situation. In fact, the main reason of your occupation of Haiti in the year 1994, was to stop the flow of haitian boat people, not caring if democracy was really restored or not. If there are some people which can teach us a thing about antihatianism and racism, they are precisely you americans, mr. Dginki. Have you forgotten Jim Crow laws and the Confederacy?

Enriquillo 1982, please note that the America you talked about is in the pass. The America today is the new America where we Americans teach and preach love. On the other hand DR is the same old DR where Dominicans teach and preach hate. The hate is so strong in DR that Dominicans, rape, burn and hang the Haitians. Americans do not treat the Haitians like dominicans do. Americans are dedicated in assisting the Haitians to get out of poverty and rebuild Haiti.

Excuse me if I don't swallow that nonsense, John, but reality tells another tale. First of all, the percentage of inmigrants on each country speak volumes by itself (US: 10% against DR: 20%). Second, the U.S. laws discriminates between cuban boatpeople and the haitian ones (the cubans only need to step on american soil to be granted citizenship, while the haitians are sent back to their country, without mercy). Third, you should be thanking us dominicans for giving haven to those (cont...)

(cont...) to those illegals (sharing with them our scarce resources in employment, health and education). If we weren't, you'll be receiving an avalanche of them on Puerto Rican and Floridan shores. So, as I told your friend Dginki, spare us your insulting condescencion and credulity, because the U.S. have more to teach about racism to the D.R. than the other way around. As for the scant and meager help that your USAID is giving them, it pales in comparison with the DR help mentioned above.

Well Said Enriquillo1982... John + new friend Dginki please go to new orleans and you'll probably feel right at home amongs many blackmen. Step 15 minutes by car away from the city of New Orleans, and please don't stop to greet the locals, I enjoy our discussions very much... Also when i was in South Carolina... The newspapers in those town showed a lots of white patriot marching with their confederate flags. cont...

Enriquillo1982, what are you talking about? DR does not provide any aid to the Haitians. In fact it is the other way around. Cheap Haitian labor stimulated the DR economy and lifted DR out of poverty. You should be thanking the Haitians for DR's success. AS for illegals, we also send Dominican boat people back to DR without mercy. We do not discriminate.

The aid, my little disinformed friend John, comes in the form of providing them with a haven for them to escape to when they decide to abandon their country. That cheap labor, John, is only enriching the dominican upper classes, we from the medium and lower classes, do not partake on their benefits in any way. On the contrary, that cheap labor contributes to impoverish us by decreasing the value of our already miserable wages. (Cont...)

(cont...) as for your discrimination, I will patiently repeat my question: haven't you heard about the "dry foot, wet foot" law that automatically grants citizenship to any cuban that sets foot on american soil while the haitian/dominican is sent back whence he/she came? if not then I really suggest you to study your own laws for that matter, for it's a shame that I, a foreigner, are currently knowing more about your migrational reality than you, Captain America, do. (cont...)

John: Your statement that "Haitians lifted DR out of Poverty and stimulate our the DR" is pure crap! nevertheless I have questions for you my friend. Why where the Haitians so kind in their aid? Two why would the Haitians built this wealth in our country when they could have built it in theirs? "Dominicans should be thankful to Haiti for our success" What we have we owe to ourselves, to our families in the USA, and sadly to Trujillo and Balaguer our two most famous anti-heroes, NOT HAITY JOHN!!!

(cont...) if you have ever study something of economics, John, you should know that the benefits of those upper class employers that are using cheap haitian labor, in no way represents the benefits of us the rest of the nation. And, on the contrary, that cheap labor contributes to gradually impoverish the country, by the pressure that their dead weight represent on public services (housing, transportation, health, education, etc.). Which are in an already fragile position, (cont...)

(cont..) and which that cheap labor would stretch to the breaking point. The aid, Captain American John, that the DR is giving Haiti, is that, with our lack of control of the migrational problem, we are lifting a social time bomb from the haitian elite's backs and placing it on our own, a social time bomb that their ineptitute if the chief responsible for creating in the first place. Lastly, I'll ask you this: Will you keep maintaining that you americans don't discriminate in the cuban's fav

Enriquillo1982, stop being foolish. Everyone knows that DR does not provide a haven for the Haitians in the DR. Dominicans like you believe that DR is providing aid to the Haitians but in reality DR is providing a Hell Hole for the Haitians. DR practices modern day slavery with the Haitians. The living condition that DR provide to the Haitians in the batayes is not even suitable for dogs. No access to education or medical health care, no rights to citizenship, and economically exploited.

Enriquillo1982, DR continuously failed to address the issue of blacks, of Haitians in the Batayes, and at the Frontera. As DR closed its eyes one of the most brutal crimes in History, the 1937 massacre of thousands of Haitians and black Dominicans in the DR. Today the situation in the DR is totally ignored. There is blatant and a great deal of racism against blacks. Blacks are at the bottom of the economic and social echelon. Thus turning Haitian cane workers into permanent slaves.

Enriquillo1982, America's foreign policy towards Cuba is the way it is for one reason. To get rid of of Fidel Castro whom is persecuting its citizens under the communist regime. America's foreign policy do not discriminate against foreigners. Any foreigner that can prove that he or she is being persecuted will not be sent back.

Carlos Franco my little Trujillo, I don't think that the Haitians in DR have a choice since they are being use as slaves to stimulate DR's economy. And I bet you if the Haitians in DR were provided with an education instead of being treated like slaves they would go back to Haiti and build Haiti. Provide a person with an education is the best thing you can do for that person. In America, Education is provided to everyone regardless of their status.

Correction: What I wanted to say was: a social time bomb that their ineptitute IS the chief responsible for creating in the first place. Query: Will you keep denying America's favoritism with the cuban boatpeople, when the "dry foot, wet foot" law clearly states their benefits IF they do so much as set the soles of their feet on American soil, while the haitian ones are, firstly, put on quarantine, then sent to their country without the benefit of an appeal?

Duvalier was wrong. He could have walked in to Dominican Republic. occupy them, slaughter them and retake the Country but instead he listened to the Americans who told him NO. That was a big mistake. Even recently Prosper Avril wanted to march in to Santo Domingo. This is our land, we free it from slavery, from the European and soon we will reoccupy this land again
Yo se lo juro

John: Why should dominicans shoulder the responsibility of educating haitians, when most dominicans kids don't have that type of education that you're demanding for your people... ONCE AGAIN you're freeing haitians of their responsibility and passing them on to others...

better Trujillo than Papa Doc!

Haitians cross willingly from the border to and from; we don't seek haitians, we deport them! Haitians in DR are a negative on the economy not a plus.... If haitians were to stop crossing into our country our sugar industry will be in chaos which will then force the (AMERICAN) sugar companies to raise the salaries to stimulate dominicans to join that industry, creating employment, providing revenues for the government, and thus minimize the economic burden that the country carries!

You make it seem so simple. Dude, if haitian labor workers leave the DR the production would be put into an utter stop. Raise the salary for dominican workers you'll just have more lazy dominicans having more money to buy cervezas and spend on cell phones, hair salon, and Polo t-shirts trying to emulate the dominican elite. The profit the DR government gains is ten times more than the burden of poor haitians. So back to square one lets pay the poor haitian worker less with faster production

Education is the key to uplift any country out of misery and poverty whether it's natives or foreignors. Dominicans have flooded Puerto Rico and the mainland to acquire these services and you want to deny el Haitiano..Por qué? You can't have ur johnny cake and eat it too.

JOHN. SO WHY HAITIAN KEEP COMING TO DR.

John: As mr. Alberto Suarez said, if the DR is a hell hole for haitians,why they keep coming? As for being foolish, you're the one which are showing blatant proofs of being one, because you're swallowing every lie that the pro illegal NGO's wants you to believe. Haven't you heard about the restavecs? The restavecs, John, are haitian children of the poor families that these are force to sell to the elite classes. Once in the hands of the elites, these children suffer a kind of slavery that (c

(cont...) those "restavec" children, mr. gullible John, suffer a kind of slavery (beatings, hunger, rape, etc) that would make the situation in our bateyes to seem mild by comparison. Why don't you make a little tour to your beloved Haiti to see for yourself the hell hole that you're defending so fanatically? Your comrades can't point finger at us about slavery when they have it so under their own noses. If you're doubting my words, just look "restavec" on the net and see for yourself.

Lastly, for your information, John, the haitian sugar workers (and the ones who come for construction, etc.) PAY for the chance of being brought to the DR. In what slave system have you heard that the victims PAY for the chance of being slaved!?!?. Just for this sole fact you should consider the folly of your being so gullible to the propaganda of those acursed NGO's.

Honestly, I'm beginning to tire of having to force well known facts about Haiti into your thick skull, John. I really doubt that you'll change your gullible views, not even if the haitians dismal reality ON THEIR OWN COUNTRY hits you in the face. If you really want to enlighten your views about that country, see wkipedia, is the most impartial database on the net so far (unless you're on the class of fools which accuse them of being anti american, a foolish accusation to be honest).

HATIANO JABAO: If Dominicans want to spent their money on cerveza thats their business! are you familiar with the term
"FREE MARKET ECONOMY" and yes it will force American companies to raise salaries simply because i don't see a sharp reduction in coffee or tea consumption in the world let alone the US

Carlos Franco, you are absolutely correct. Nothing wrong with drinking a cerveza at the colmao dancing bachata all day long but don't blame el pobre haitiano for SOME dominicans lack of work ethics. La misma cosa siempre.Oye hermano la' cojsa' son dura. Ven acá, ¿que fue con el trabajo que tenías? Bueno,yo e'taba enfermo por 1 mes. Pero yo te ví con tu querida en colmao bailando un bachata bien pegao mientras tu esposa no tiene na' a dar lo' niño' a comel. Si si tienes razón..pero ya tu

continued... Bueno es q' ello' no quieren pagarme bien. No soy haitiano. Ellos esta invadiendo ete pais. Mi abuelo era un gerente de una gran empresa extranjera. Quizas ello' no saben quien so yo. Oye, mi hermana me llamó desde PR. Yo quiero tomar una yola pa'lla. Ella eta viviendo bien. Santo Domingo e un infierno y la unica solucion e salirme de ete pais. Si si..yo tambien me voy a salir de ete pais.Voy pa Neuva Yol a trabajar con mi hermano. El e jefe de una companía de taxis.

Scenarios above are the true cause of why dominican elites prefer hiring haitians to do the work. They are doing work dominicans don't want to do because of el primo etc etc taling them tales that the grass is greener on the other side in PR and Nueva Yol. Unfortunately, the haitians doing menial jobs situation slightly ameliorates but constantly face humiliation and fear of repatriation simplemente por su nacionalidad. Meanwhile, the foreign investors pockets are getting fatter n fatter...

For your information, mr. Haitiano Jabao, not all of us are lazy drunkards and swindlers as you like so much to portrait. It's the avarice of the elites in employing haitian inmigrants what forces the dominican worker to migrate, not the other way around as you're currently portraying. The increase in the numbers of haitian inmigrants is really a recent thing, which makes the economic growth of 8% that the DR experienced in the XX century ENTIRELY our accomplishment (cont...)

(cont...) Also, the economical sectors which made that economical growth possible in the last leg of the XX century were free trade zones, finances, comunications, tourism and remittances. NEITHER of which employs haitian cheap labor heavily as it does the construction and the declining sugar industries. If you're thinking that the DR economic welfare relies on the well being of the construction sector and the sugar industry, then mr. Haitiano Jabao, you're sadly mistaken. (cont...)

(cont...) so you'll have to excuse me, mr. Haitiano Jabao, if I take your dellusions of grandeur with a grain of salt. You can't blame the dominicans which migrate for their attitude if that's their only way of escaping that situation created by the elites. You haitians are exactly in the same situation or worse, because your elites are ten times more voracious and cruel than our own elites are, the only thing different is that, until now, our elites have had better management skills, (cont..

(cont....) while the haitian elites management skills, if they have any, shine by their absence. I'm not saying that they're incapable of making fortunes (the ones which runs the Barbancourt rum have showed astounding ability), it's just that they lack the commitment for the advancement of their country that you'll find in the Leon Jimenez family, just to name a dominican example of able business management coupled with a sense of duty to the country. And that, my friend, is the key for succ

(cont...) the key for success.

Enriquillo, You still don't get it. Y aren't u opposed of illegal arabs,chinese,now russians that are in the DR. Undocumented haitians in the DR have been very profitable for the dominican elites. Haitian immigrants (braceros) were contracted by foriegn investors long long time ago and the dominican/haitian gov't were in cahoots. El campesino dominicano no longer wants to do these rigorous work rather migrate to la ciuda' or Puelto Rjico & US. Unfortunately, DR's economy is better than

Arabs, russians and Chinese bring technologies and are well educated, their presence is a plus to our economy and people unlike haitians which are poor in culture and education and have not contributed to our advancement in no way... if am wrong please name examples and dying to hear them!!!

continued..Haiti which has caused many haitians looking for work in the DR. We need to respect these undocumented haitians rights and not discriminate against dominicans of haitian descent. As in the case of a young dominican engineer denied a copy of his birth certificate because his origin. Come to find out his parents were legal residents and thru litigation he finally was given what is rightfully his under the dominican Law. Que verguenza from you immigrants in the USA having the audacity

continued..to deny undocument haitians children in the DR access to school which many undocument dominicans in PR/USA have benefited from. The hypocrasy is mind boggling when many of you were probably illegal at one time and have several family members in that same boat waiting for USA to pass an amnesty to legalise their status. Shame shame shame..Y not learn creole the second unofficial language of DR to help your haitians brothers improve their life. Dominicans & haitians need to help each

cont..other for the betterment of the whole island we share. You over glamourising the economic success of the DR which isn't helping the mass isn't going to stop the majority of dominicans misery and wanting to leave the country.Both countries are far beyond what is expected for them to get out of the tercer mundista state of mind. I have lived in 3 continents,on both sides of the island & can decipher the difference. Your rhetoric for browny points isn't going to put food in Yudy's boca 2

FYI, the dominicans that I know are hard working people and obey the law and they too realize the discrimination haitianos face just because of their background. Undocumented haitians have been an intricate player in helping DR's economy. You can't expect 5 generation haitian descendants dominicans to pack up and cross the border. We need to help these people and dominicans overcome the misery. Dominicans own many businesses in Haiti and we need more to come and c that we accept our bros...

Carlos Franco your stereotypes are not going to get u anywhere. What has the dominican population has done for Puerto Rico & USA who are a majority illiterate and barely finish primary school. B4 you generalise lets not forget the reality of dominicans struggling to fight against disequality. Your antihaitianismo will not change anything. It is obvious you don't like haitians. My question is why? And don't give me that history blah blah bla..The asian immigranst going to DR are not..

cont. educated and no nothing about technology..Pero they have something more worthy..la piel blanca or casi. Instead of terrorizing el pobre haitiano buscando una mejor vida why not chase the pedophiles and delincuentes with that special skin colour. No..as long as the kid sale con la piel blanca y ojos claro..then they've made the family proud. Pero el prieto that works hard doesn't cut..Dios Mio que verguenza...shame shame shame..

No matter what you say, or think, mr. El Haitiano Jabao, it doesn't change the fact that the DR have the sovereign RIGHT to decide which people it'll allow to become its citizens and which ones it'll not allow. No matter how much you sugarcoat it, those illegals are the exclusive responsibility of your elites, those elites which have exploited and abused you for 203 years without you lifting a finger to change that. Why would I need to learn a dialect which is spoken only by haitians? (cont..

(cont..) I consider that learning English has been more than enough in my case, even though I'll may consider learning chinese, because, according to many economists and analysts, the People's Republic of China may be the next economical superpower in the next twenty years, IF it keeps its current path. The joy of capitalism and free markets is that only the best are due to suceed, and that event may depend only if the successful superpower have the will to keep innovating and improving itself

The language creole will be essential for dominicans in the near future and is spoken not only in haiti. you consider creole a dialect then dominican spanish is considered a dialect or ebonics spanish. Ur false forward thinking & antihaitianismo will lead you no where. Of course learning english have been enough even a miracle, wouldn't u say? Haitians rights need to be respected in the DR. Now lets be civilised and work on bring both of our people out of misery..

We can't start if you don't have control over what happens over your own territory and people first, mr. el Haitiano Jabao, or are you implying that the DR have to carry the weight of both countries? How can you expect others to respect you, when you're not showing signs of EARNING it?

Haiti is the second country to purchase dominicans goods. Besides, with the new bilateral meetings and cultural exchange programs which will bring positve dialogue between the two countries. There are many dominican business owners in haiti around 15 thousands we haitians welcome with open arms and many illegal dominicans residing in haiti. You need to ask ur ambassadeur in haiti to dismantle your xenophobia towards ur brothers and c the greatness of each other..

Yes the haitian gov't must take responsibility but let's not forget dominicans our co-conspirators in the last and all the coup d'etat in Haiti. The rebels were trained on dominican soil and came across a quote on quote secure border with machine guns and vehicles. Did the dominican government know this and if yes, Y didn't they notify the haitian gov't? USA/Canada/France wanted to oust Aristide because he dared ask for the money Haiti was force to pay france. As usual DR is used as their

Do you consider 15,000 dominicans to be many, mr. el Haitiano Jabao?

cont.. playground to dismantle a democratically elected president. Now the influx of poor haitians move east which is phase two of their plan. Now with Cesfront..phase three will be going to take place.. Ur worst nightmare will manifest itself in another 5 to 10yrs and we won't have no input in their plan. In the name of globalization.

HAITIANO JABAO: You are too naive in the ways of this world. Do you know why History is important... "It defines our present and our future" Haitians were savages when they were in power in the island and committed many crimes that went unpunished so forgive me for hurting your sensibilities and clearly say that i don't trust that huge presence of haitians in my country cuz haitian dream of invading DR and restored their empire is not over....

HAITIANO JABAO: do you know what the war in the balkans countries were all about? Ethnic-Serbians living in neighboring countries were annexed over night by Serbia (the Country). it would be as if, Haiti would claim all territories in which haitians live in DR and rise up and murder us in our own country. why am i thinking this way... well history as taugh me that Haitians laid claims to our country in fact they called it an empire...

Haitiano Jabao: to be an empire your need certain qualifications. one of course would be to control another nation state by means of force. Other aspects of empires is that they are formed of people of different cultures, language and religion... sounds familiar? doesn't end there... Haiti declared itself an empire with us as their subjects.... And still you can't see why i distrust Haitians. (If it happened once it will happen again)

And speaking of the "dialects", mr. Haitiano Jabao, for your information, when a mexican and a dominican talk to each other, they understand themselves almost perfectly, the same can't be said in the case of your nationals with the rest of the phrancophone world. For a person from Guadeloupe or Martinique to understand an haitian, they have to actually learn haitian creole, and if and haitian wants to understand them, he/she have to learn the french that is used on those islands.

Enriquillo stick to ur rhetoric of antihaitianismo and not about things u no nothing about. BTW, Guadeloupe/Martinique speak creole as well their own version. N all haitians the speak only creole can communicate with them. Ur pseudo intellectual-izm and NAZIonalismo is coming out. Keep typing:) I can see a Sosa dominican telling an indigenous mejicano that they are brothers with same blood lineage..LOL..Oye compay, soy taino d pura sepa mire mi cara.n the mejicano says oye bembón dejame en paz

continued..yo no tengo nada q ver con un macaco sin verguenza. I remember a cibaeña asking an ecuadorian for casava in spanish and the ecuatoriano was like "yo hablo español y no te entiendo". A haitian me had to tell the dominican where to find it. People stop wasting time despising us..Love Paz..

Oh look who's talking about racism, it's mr. I-am-from-the-elite-El-Haitiano-Jabao. FYI, we are something that is totally foreign on haitian soil, that is, we're a multicultural society, oh something that, by the way, seems to be totally unacceptable for you, (maybe that's the root of all your resentment against dominicans). What you're happily calling Nazionalism is nothing that national self-preservation. (cont...)

(cont..) tell me, mr. Affranchi-Jabao. What would prevent the haitians from imposing their views on the DR if they get to have the advantage of numbers, advantage that would allow them to decide who's elected and who's not if they get to have citizenship rights maintaining at the same time their negative to abandon or at least relax, their cultural practices? Wouldn't that put the DR in the same road to disaster that have plagued Haiti for more than 203 years of history?

And talking about racism, mr. Affranchi-Jabao, would you tell us about your class practices in the marriage department? It's not precisely a well-kept secret that your class only likes to marry between themselves or better yet, marry foreigners (usually french or american) which makes you culprit of hipocrisy, because, from one side, you preach understanding of your opressed brethen, and from the other you show the fear of being "tainted" by them. Care to explain us that curious dualism? :(

Enriquillo, I dont resent dominicans and have lived in the DR. Ur diatribe about being tainted demonstrates ur racist and Nazionalismo. Y not oppose the chinese and arab immigrants. Aren't u afraid of them imposing islam etc etc..I guess as long theyre aren't dark like majority of haitians then they are accepted as dominicans. Shame shame my brother. May God bless u.

mr. Jabao, I wasn't the one to allude to the term "tainted", it was one of your own historians, Jean Price-Mars, who first mentioned it in his critique to your class. I'm only mentioning his own words.

And before you ask, Price-Mars mentioned it in his celebrated book "La Republique d'Haiti et la Republique Dominicaine" (1953). Another author that mentioned that dualism was James Leyburn in his book "The Haitian Nation". Would you still deny the evidence of your class exclusivism in the light of this evidence?

Most arabs in DR are of syrian lebanese christian background... and even if they were't they only constitude a minority and i for one don't see a threat in Islam. I've dated muslim women and they are as a culture very friendly and family oriented people. Chinese too, and my understanding is that they have only 40,000 people in DR, not enough to threaten us, being that china is far far away. Failed again Haitiano Jabao but please don't give up....

I don't feel the need to bash the arabs or chinese, mr. Haitiano-Jabao, for many reasons, among them: 1- As mr. Carlos Franco said, their numbers are not enough to harm national stability, 2- They're, for the most part, wealthy, hard-working and easy-going citizens, and 3- They're not harming the country's international image by stupid and out-of-proportion denunciations. (cont...)

(cont...) and before you blame us of being licking the boots of europeans, if the DR were as european lover as you so happily portray, don't you think that that "love" would have been enough for the DR to refrain from DEMANDING from its authorities the expulsion of Union Fenosa, a spanish electricity company, from the country?

Carlos Franco & Enriquillo, why can't u guys just come out n say that the reason u oppose haitians in the DR whether legal or not is because they are in majority dark skin blacksn u r light negros like the majority of dominicans. I would respect u more than ranting about nada. I am still waiting for you guys to write in spanish so I can correct ur grammar. Im sure the USA's taxpayers was wasted teaching you how to write in ur mother tongue. Shame on u guys the hypocrasy is Unbelievable..

(cont..) de lo cual no te culpo, ya que realmente ustedes tienen poco o nada que decir en su favor, si quieres una muestra de lo que digo, solamente tienes que visitar las noticias o los foros del site de Clave Digital para que veas una muestra. De lo único que eres culapable es de poca originalidad en tus argumentos, siempre denunciando ser victima de nazionalismo, fascismo y demás hierbas aromáticas de la que ustedes y sus partidarios tienen que agarrarse cuando se ven arrinconados. (cont..)

Para tu información, sr. Jabao, la regla "de una gota de sangre" que se aplica en Estados Unidos, la cual dice que si alguien caucásico tiene un hijo/a con alguien de otra etnia, éste hijo/a pertenecerá a la etnia inferior, no tiene aplicación en la RD, por más que a ustedes les duela, además de que los últimos avances de la genética han demostrado la estupidez de esta regla. Que pena, sr. jabao, que pena, parece ser que te gusta jugar con las reglas de tus "enemigos" del KKK americano.

(cont..) pero no te culpo, ya que ese es el error que cometen usualmente los extranjeros a la hora de hacer tratos o analizar la realidad dominicana, el de querer analizarla con las reglas sociológicas y económicas aplicadas en sociedades extranjeras y que no explican para nada su realidad. (cont...)

(cont..) ¿Sabía sr. jabao, que la abolición de la esclavitud en la RD de la que ustedes tanto se ufanan no fue mas que un acto superfluo, ya que en primer lugar la población esclavizada eran solamente 3,000 personas, un 3.7% de una población de 80,000, y que, por la realidad económica del sistema hatero ésta se encontraba en franca decadencia? los propios números, sr. jabao, se encargan de fulminar sus infundios pasados y presentes contra nosotros. Que pase un feliz día, sr. jabao.

Mira quien habla de ser hipocrita... El que ama a los negro pero odia a los Arabes y Chinos!!! U and I are the same thing Haitiano Jabao... why then is it so hard for you to understand my position????

Enquillo, escribiste mucho pero no estás diciendo nada. Te felicito, escribes el castellano/español suficiente bien. Se nota que aprendiste en los EEUU gastando los recursos de los americanos. ¿Por qué estás contra los haitianos en RD? No somos una raza inferior ni uds. una superior. Tengo orgullo de la sangre africana que la mayoría de uds quieren olvidar. No hay nada malo en ser NEGRO los blancos son una pequeña minoría en RD. Basta ya con tus diatribas sobre tus hermanos haitianos.

cont. Además, el gobierno de la RD está aprovechando la mano de obra barata sin importar los derechos humanos de los haitianos. Dime la verdad, ¿estás opuesto de la inmigración ilegal o los haitianos? no seas cobarde!! Me pregrunto, ¿ ese fulano nunca ha hablado sobre los ilegales europeos,americanos, arabes,asiáticos? ¿Por qué?.Hmm..tiene que mejorar la raza. Que Dios te bendiga hermano. Pase un buen fin de semena.. Na pale lundi prochain.

Carlos Franco, wow I got one sentence out of you and u still made an error. Te boy jabla' en tu dialecto.Ya tu sabe'. Q' lo que Ai? Mire, brode yo no odio lo' arabe ni los chinito'. Ju puttin words in my boca compay. Pero why ju be hatin on my people. Donde 'ta tu abuela..ella todabía spik creole. haitianos y dominicanos son broders compay. Now go make jour family proud and get a degree and make them proud. Ju very looky to b livin in Nuevo Yol. Po'tate vien. Dio' le Vendiga.

FYI mr. Haitiano Jabao, I was born in dominican soil and I haven't lived outside my fatherland (I have only stayed only a couple of monts in the US and Puerto Rico), and yes I'm only opposed to haitian inmigration because it's the one which is felt more heavily in my country, in all aspects, be it the resources that the DR has to spend on your pregnant women or the forced low in the salaries that the abundance of "willing slaves" have created on my country. (cont...)

(cont..), and besides, all the other foreign groups combined don't make the huge numbers that the inmigration of your nationals have on my country (descendants included). If there's two thing that you can't accuse me of, mr. Jabao, is of cowardice nor of spending a single penny of the US taxpayers, and in fact, I could just blame you of ingratitute, because the DR is spending huge sums attending your nationals needs, only to be payed back by gross ingratitute from your part (cont..)

(cont..) How can you expect us dominicans to consider you as brothers when you pay us back by the blackest ingratitude (no pun intended)? In fact, your campaign of gross distortions may have grave unintended side effects, namely, to cause the national incomes by tourism to slacken, that way, no only the dominicans would suffer, but your nationals would bear the full brunt of the crisis, not only by losing jobs, but by being victims of popular persecution, (cont..)

(cont..) because people would blame them, justly or not, of being the chief culprits of the dire situation that the country would face, and believe me, you just don't want to bear witness to what my countrymen are capable of when they're angry, their acts would make the parisians of the French Revolution to be seen like kindergarten kids by comparison. (cont...)

(cont..) From my point of view, if your nationals have faced injustice on my country, they've only been isolated acts on the part of disgruntled people or bureaucratic annoyances by the part of inefficient employees of the State, but these acts are not different from what we lawful dominican nationals have to face everyday. Btw, I would use your same tactic on you, why do you keep denying your class hipocrisy against your own kin? (cont..)

Haitiano Jabao: Where is the error? let me ask you. By learning Spanish better than most Dominicans you think you've come closer to being one of us? I speak English better than some white people I've met, still doesn't make me an American!! and by the way I do have a degree and am working on my second one. What about you, do you have a degree? the Love the Haitians but hate Arabs degree.... You are right about one thing, we are the same. Your love for the Arabs is my love for the Haitians!!!!

Btw I see that you're guilty of making generalizations too, mr. Jabao, why do you happily asume that every dominican has to have an haitian relative or ancestor? FYI mr. jabao, being the DR a multirracial society makes having an homogeneous ancestry impossible, your attempt to "africanize" dominicans being therefore laughable, or didn't you know that inside the same aforementioned african continent exists to this day national, tribal and cultural rivalries that have often ended on bloodshed?

btw mr jabao, if you're still obstinate in your denial of your class hipocrisy, feel free to visit the following pages to see for yourself:
1- http://www.letraslibres.com/index.php?art=11127
2- http://www.radio36.com.uy/mensaje/2004/12/m_241204.htm
3- http://nuevomundo.revues.org/docu....0-%20Elites%20mulatas%20haitianas

Have a really, really nice weekend, "mon ami".

Lastly, as a parting speech mr. Jabao (as I see that no matter what I'd tell you, it will fall on deaf ears) let me tell you something: el que escriba en inglés tan adecuadamente no significa que haya vivído en los EE.UU., ¿O acaso insinúas que en mi pais uno no puede educarse adecuadamente? Yo nací, me he educado y vivído mi vida en la RD y pertenezco a una minoría que todavía cree en su país, y que esta dispuesta a quedarse en él y luchar por un mejor futuro para el mismo. (cont..)

(cont..) y antes de que me salgas con la acusación ligera e irresponsable de tildarme de hipócrita por supuestamente querer que mis compatriotas emigren a EE.UU. y al mismo tiempo negándole la misma prerrogativa a tus compatriotas, dejame decirte mi hijo que yo soy el primero que quiere que la diápora dominicana vuelva a su tierra, ya que así estarán obligados a organizarse y combatir por sus derechos en su propia tierra. (cont..)

(cont...) Si algo tienen de verdadero los documentales de los sacerdotes Ruquoy y Hartley, sr, jabao, es que la responsabilidad de la actual tragedia migratoria recae en las élites de ambos lados de la isla, lo único que a diferencia de lo que esos sacerdotes malignos quieren, léase que reconozcamos como nacionales a esos inmigrantes y les cubrámos todas las necesidades que ni siquiera nuestros propios ciudadanos tienen cubiertas, (cont...)

(cont..) yo opino que la solución tienen que pasar por desbartarles el negocio a ustedes de vender, como en los tiempos de la colonia, a sus hermanos a los barones azucareros, con barcos negreros y todo, y ésto (lo de los barcos) no me lo he inventado yo, sino tus queridos sacerdotes campeones de los ilegales, en fin, ha sido un placer tenerte como contrincante, sr. jabao, ya que a diferencia de John, tus argumentos parten de patriotismo y lealtad de clase y no de ignorancia y credulidad (cont.)

(cont..) y no de ignorancia y credulidad, como es su caso, en fin sr. Jabao, sayonara y hasta otra ocasión.

Señor Enriquillo, your dislike for haitians stems of your own insecurities. Africanizing everything dominican isn't my objective and personally I can care less how dominicans tend to identify themselves but once off that cushion pillow (DR) reality will hit u in the face when others see what the majority of u are. Haiti also have other ethnic groups syrians, chinese,polish etc etc but it still doesn't undermine the obvious in our culture,food,music.

As I said whites are a minority in the DR. Ur skewed views of haitians is what most dominicans seem to keep the stereotypes flowing. The fact of the matter is haitians are an intricate source for dominican elites to make more profits. Instead of spewing hatred why not find solutions to improve the plight of dominicans and haitians at the bottom of the totem pole but u are to busy feeding ur ego. Señor, bilateral agreements and exchange programs are what we need among both countries to improve

continued..our perceptions of each other. I don't know if it dawned on u but we share the same island and can't live without looking at each other face to face. I hope ur hatred and stereotypes cease for know one knows what the future hold. it may be me today and you tomorrow. God bless u..and may ur lavish lifestyle is spread thru Los Minas, Capotillo sto dgo northeast..

CF, Im sorry that you feel intimitated by the Jabao. It isn't ur fault what class u were born in. As I said be lucky ur family gave u an opportunity to live in Neuba Yol. For it is the american tax payers money which have given u this chance. Im glad to hear u have a diploma but use it for good rather than spitting hate. As me being one of u because I speak spanish better than u makes u fustrated. Just know that u have ur place in society n I have mine.Limpia botas should no theres.

Haitiano Jabao: You still haven't corrected the "mistakes" I supposedly made in my writings.... Until then you have no argument... in fact you just keep proving yourself wrong!!!

As an American I propose a solution to the Haitian/Dominican dilemma. America will build a wall on the DR's border to keep the Haitians out. At the same time America will deport all Dominicans back to DR to work the sugar plantations and also build a wall around DR to keep dominicans from coming to the U.S and Peurto Rico.

I agree wholeheartedly with your plan John, because as I told you earlier,it would force the dominican diaspora to fight for their rights on their own land or to die trying. Also, would you care to do the same with Cubans? Oh, I forgot, you'll encounter trouble on that side, because, they're enjoying enormous political power on your Congress, so much so that they were the deciding factor in the first of George W. Bush electoral victories. See the dangers of allowing inmigrants to run things?

welcome back john... i missed you... Here's something i can live with. Haiti must enforce the laws in its country regarding the border area. DR can in turn allow season workers to come into the country. They work, pay taxes and return to their families with cash in their pockets. Sounds good to me though it i realize it won't be that simple to implement since Haiti's chaotic situation, it may be years before the gov. can assume control and legitimacy of the country and people

Enriquillo, why are you chastising your compatriots. Many dominican diaspora have risked their lives whether yola or other means to give their families an opportunity which DR would have never in a million yrs provided to them nor their offsprings. For centuries these people have been invisible in what goes on and would be persecuted if they dared challenged the elites. U make it seem so easy as if they will be accepted into la SOCIEDAD. continued..

As if they would be welcomed on the red carpet. Please don't mess with the sentimientos of dominicanos trabajando en el exterior. The audacity of you mentioning cubans political clout in the USA as a warning of want immigrants can do to country is amusing. Better hope cubans aren't reading ur diatribes or they might run the DR as many cubans descendants in the DR have been into politics...all good right unless its those mendingo cubans that might side with los haitianos.stop spewing porquer

(cont..) Also, mr. Jabao, I'm aware that the elites of my country would not receive the diaspora with open arms, but that's not a valid excuse to prevent them for enjoying the rights that they have as lawful dominican citizens. FYI, every little conquest that the dominican worker had won, has costed him/her a lot blood and sacrifice, but it has been a price that he/she had gladly payed, something that would not have happened had he/she opted for your solution of simply fleeing from the country

(cont..) also, mr. jabao, you don't have to warn me about the possibility of that alliance, because that accursed alliance is already a reality, or, haven't you heard about the documentary of Amy Serrano "The Sugar Babies"? If that piece of garbage is not an alliance between your class and them in the common goal of destroying the DR's international image, then I don't know what it is.

John,u should let ur country man Haitiano Jabao carry the discussion.While I may not agree with some of his statements, at least he presents his thoughts in a manner that doesn’t make me doubt his ability to carry on a proper conversation or come up with a proper solution.Your statements read like a Haitian propaganda ,and they lack cohesion and independent thought.It seems like you do all your reading from Wikipedia. Comparing the migration policies of the D.R and U.S it like comparing (cont)

an accord to the space shuttle.U,don’t understand the economic force that Dominicans are becoming in the U.S not only the Services sector( taxies, bodegas calling cards and I can go on and on)but professionals on wall street,doctors, athletes.Second generation Dominicans are among educated among Hispanics in the U.S( look it up but not on wikipedia).
While you can bring up drugs in the Heights I can compare that with the first generation of Italians that migrated to the U.S in the 20’s.

Italian Americans are now an important economic bloc and have been accepted despite stereotypes and traditions of their forefathers. I will not get into intellectual economy because ur just going to ignore it and counter with the race card .So ill just be as direct as possible; to many Haitians not enough resources to care for them. With Haiti’s ecological problems maybe they should go to the China model and limit birth to one per couple.

When Haitian’s become a more diversified workforce then they’ll be treated as such,(this is not counting the thousands of Haitian professionals that get treated with respect because they possess the amount of education and the know how that makes them valuable they don’t get discriminated.)till then Haitians without education will treated just like Dominicans with out education.John, have u ever been to the D.R, if u haven’t go by Anacaona Ave and ask the Haitian Foreman that makes 45000 a Cont

Month if he wants to go Haiti.Then go to San Pedro and ask the of west Indian decent if they are treated badly then u can go to Samana where the families are mainly of African American decent and ask them is they treated badly(they control the local government and are becoming wealthy because of the tourism boom in that region).As for ur solution unless ur John Kerry, or Hillary Clinton( which I doubt, they are very pro- Dominican)u lack the power or the know how to put forth Cont....

forth solutions even if they acerbic or facetious in nature. Lastly, Dominicans cant be held responsible for Haiti, or for big American Corporations smuggling them in to cut sugar.

F. Aquino, I agree that the DR's gov't isn't responsible for haitians that's haiti's task. I agree the ONG and other advocates have been putting alot of pressure on the DR but are they lying? No. My concern is about how marginalise dominicans & haitians are treated on hispaniola and the number 1 scapegoat blaming every short coming DR govt on haitian migration. Look at the tactic Balaguer used against Gomez..calling him haitian while balaguer himself is puerto rican descent pero el es bl

DR is a great country and I would be lying to say that all haitians are treated bad. My personal experience have been excellent since I lived there for a while. To say all dominicans are racist towards haitians would be an injustice. But when JCE is denying dominicans of haitian descent or any black dark skin dominican with no haiitan lineage documents thats discrimination/antihaitianismo. The elites in the DR love hard workers that wont miss days after days and many crooked ones

cont. know the vulnerablity of haitians and exploit them. My stands is for all not just one group. DR's govt have a right to expel illegals out but it should be done across the board not just one group besides what about the dark skin dominicans de pura sepa that are caught up in the propaganda just because they "appear" to be haitians. I recall crossing the border recently and the guardia barely looked at me and waved me to go . According to him a jabao can nver be haitian. continued

i think a solution to this is to first have a form of dialogue where both nations sit down and have exchange programs so we can learn the truth and dispell the propaganda amongst both nation. Believe we have alot of negative stereotypes about dominicans too.:) Instead of letting foreignors throw fuel in the fire, why can't we solve our own problems. LF has been doing a great job.best president in my opinion of the DR and haiti's government need to take some notes in certain aspects.

no more history lessons both have done good and bad which really some of it we were just caught up in international affairs and had no say in anything. Tenemos q' construir un puente de amor,amistad, y paz pa' los dos pueblos. basta con las porquer%@s. Haitian identity & dominican identity should not conflict each other n order for us to feel proud of who we r. Pro-haitian doesn't mean anti-domincian y vice versa. We are one bird with two wings both need to flap 2gether in order us to fly hi

Wow, I actually agree with you isn't that weird.

F. Aquino..it isn't wierd if you are a person that can balance your check book. The science to solving our problems is getting to know each other and above all respect each other.we don't have to agree on everything but we should agree in the advancement of both nations respectively. It's silly for dominicans to say look at our economy it's better than yours. Trade among the people have been going on for centuries formal & informal

One doesn't have to feel superior for the other to succeed, we both can. I encourage more dominicans to open up business in haiti. Dominican Hair Salons are booming in Haiti. You know we mostly have pelo malo so its a gold mine:) Hope that wasn't taken as racist..too bad. So many opportunities for dominicans. only if you knew how many dominicans making alot of money in haiti. We need to start having more interactions. Learn from each other end stop letting foreignors dictate us.

You are right mr. Jabao. In addition, both countries need to neutralize the power that the parties which thrive on division hold on the public media. I don't know how the situation is on Haiti, but on the DR everything is done for electoral purposes. For example, the so called Cessfront or Cuerpo Especializado de Seguridad Fronteriza, which in my humble opinion is nothing more than an electoral bluff to keep the nationalist appeased and also as escapegoat to not adress the real issues.

Frank Aquino from Florida, I'm not holding DR responsible for Haiti's mess. All I did was proposed a solution to help DR manage it's border with Haiti. I strongly believe that a country has a right to deport all illegal aliens. This is why the U.S take a strong stand in deporting all illegal aliens back to their country. We do not discriminate. Italians, Mexicans, Dominicans, Haitians, ect., if you are here in the U.S illegally we will deport you. Stay warm under that Florida sun Mr. Aqui

Haiti is too unstable to for investments... The government there doesn't even control the country... The people respect thugs because their swords are close than those of the government. and politicians hold no legitimacy, only small Dominican businesses can profit (like hair salon or street vendor) out of Haiti's anarchy. I strongly advice against it. It may be a while before Haiti can guarantee investment security.

CF, what are you talking about? Are there any evolved dominicans stating their opinions here, Im tired of reading from people that have no clue of haiti except for negative stereotypes. If haiti isn't governing herself, I hope you don't think DR is not being stringed by foreignors. I have given the people in your realm away to invest in haiti. Now other big investment can be expanded since they already exist which I will refrain from saying since u barely understand basic preliminary

cont..invest. CF, how well do you know ur government and it's affairs with haiti that bring in millions(US) and form those little social clubs that you aren't allowed to enter? This isn't about walking around Flatbush Ave with ur bandera to proving your duminicanness. What do you know about haiti? Get down and know the real haiti and I gaurantee your stereotypes will end and you will stop making senseless comments.

CF, by the way majority of dominicans are of rural backgrounds and have made a great living with their small businesses. I assume you and Mr. Trump are discussing big deals on Norstand Ave. Get real guys. More interchangeable programs from both groups need to take place something simple as how meringue(kompas) and merengue are influenced by each other. Im talking about the real music of the past not this junk today that ramble about cows and cabaña encounters. I would be a start

Those "merengues sin letras" that you mention, mr. Jabao, are just a symptom of how political, economical and social problems are treated today in the DR: with much noise and little, if not any, meaning at all. Worse of all, the political class, instead of looking for solutions to those problems, pass the time pointing fingers at each other or staging mediatic shows to distract the public. :-(

Manuel L buenos días.these merengue without content indeed reflect on its society even kompas has been infiltrated by this. Down load or view youtube Skah Shah and Tropicana to see the great kompas legends although you won't understand the words. your body will fall in a trance to the "clave" and remind you of ol merengues and a tad of bachata. I would love to hear ur comments on it. Embrace things we have in common and acknowledge our differences for a better Hispaniola amongst both of us.

Buenas tardes, Jabao Ayisien. I was listening right now an old song by Skah Shah (Van Libete) from 1988, and you're right!!! it's good plain ol' bachata like it was done in times past. I could not help but feeling a little bit nostalgic while listening to it, lol. :-)

Im glad u enjoyed the classic music which doesn't exist anymore. Dominican & Haitians better learn to corporate with each other since it would only enrich our unique culture respectively. Listen to Johnny Ventura's song "Map Bobiné" a big hit where he testifies having a great time in una fiesta haitiana. N if a duminican dares call the King of merengue a haitian they're doing there country a disservice. Love & Peace is the only way to heal our demented past which will lead us to a mejor futu

it is funny how the says that dominicans are savage racists. didn't he meant white folks? whites from every country are racist no matter if u are dominican, puerto rican, colombian, etc etc. the editor havent seen the news about a young ecuadorian in a subway got hit and kicked by a spaniard for no reason? the police arrested him, but he was freed,. Of course he is freed!, he is white! how disturbing!

Jabaoe Ayisien, There will never be peace and love between Dominicans and Haitians. Dominicans and Haitians are like dogs and cats. They just don't get along. So stop preaching about uniting the two people.

My family were once very poor, they used to be farmers. Am not Ashame to say that. What you must understand is, that no matter how right you may be, I still don't accept you, as Dominican.

DR and Haiti are not the same, we never have and never will. I don't hate Haitians, but they are undermining Dominican workers, and that i cannot accept.

Ayisien (whatever that mean) call it ignorance, i just don't care to know that!!

Ayisien, you've lived in Haiti, DR, and the US, i won't even assume you have any status in any society!!!

LONG LIVE CESFRONT!!!!

My family has "humilde" background which is to say we were poor and decent. Never ashame of that...

Listen to john, Ayisien

John, I am disappointed in such a pessimistic comment. Can u explain why do u feel that haitians & dominicans can't have love for each other. Two banana republics that need each other in order to really be competitive in the globalized world. If France & Germany have good relations when the latter almost alienated the first and u mean to tell me a bunch of negros and half breeds and whites from both side have that much anomosity towards each other. Maybe the poor does but not the well off

Like Merengue or Like Bachata, is Not Merengue or Bachata. Since Haitians travel so freely, (NOT NO MORE CUZ OF "CESFRONT") i wouldn't be surprise that Haitians have been influenced by our music!!!

"Jabao Haitiano In Wonderland"

Maybe John is seeing things for what they are...
You're a dreamer... In a "Realist's" world

Like the French say "the more things change, the more they stay the same."

CF, know ur place my friend tu eres un dominicano afuera del pais pero en sto dgo eres un campesino sin educación. Un tiguere que quiere todo sin el sacrificio. What u consider fun is sitting playing dominos @ a colmao tomando cervezas. E'cuchando perico ripao.. It would take u 6 generations to learn proper etiquette and mannerism to b part of gente de la socieda'. Progessive haitians & dominicans will want to live in harmony and the rest can build there own state in capotillo.

Again wrong. Soy capitaleño, my parents are from el cibao and its beautiful there (am sure you know since you have crossed the border and pass by el Cibao) I have a degree and working on my second one. I like rock en español and i hate perico ripiao...My family in dr are property and business owners, here too. and am white too... WRONG ,WRONG, AND WRONG AGAIN...


Sorry to disappoint you. Too bad cesfront came about after the millenium!!!!

CF, I apologise for getting personal. Lets stay focus on the subject. Haitians & Dominicans need to overcome there little complex. In the big pond neither of us can compete globally and even considered. Liking rock n spanish doesn't make you eloquent nor being "white". Again thank the lord ur parents gave you an opportunity that ur country didn't provide u. With all of those accomplisment and u still won't get in their private clubs.

Are you a member of any private clubs? You know being a member, isn't my goal in life so maybe you should stop assuming what it is that i like. You have accused me of a number of things, non of which you haven't been proven correctly... talking to you has been a waste of my time.

CF, u remind me of a co-worker(dominican) that went to the DR the same time I went. He has the same background as u and doing good in the USA thanks to the opportunities. He thought him being dominican and I haitian would give him special treatment. Wrong, dude was refused into a mall because of attire. And every place we went respected dominicans that I know gave me great hospitality and asked me about the dom-york. His speech pattern is typical campesino although educated US.

Jabao Haitiano, don't be disappointed. Reality is what it is. DR is run by people like Carlos Franco who have no love for the Haitian people. As long as those type of people are in power there will never be peace and love between Dominicans and Haitians. The Haitians need to focus on education, rebuilding the Army, Navy, and Airforce. By doing so it will create jobs and enable Haiti to move forward. HT does not need DR to move forward. HT should bring back all of it's citizens from DR.

John, as a proud haitian that I am and as much I want the best for Haiti. I would like the DR to move forward as well. People like CF are not even considered as part of dominican society. He's a diaspora that came to the USA for the same reason haitians go to the DR. Now going to DR for economic opportunity is a dead end. Dominican Rep has a high percentage of unemployment and high illiterate group of people. Living there I have met educated dominicans who I still consider great friends

Although there are many dominicans who despise haitians, you will find many that are welcoming to haitians. We can't judge each dominican with the same brush and vice versa. I feel sorry for CF because his hostile behavior towards haitians has to do with his own insecurities and false since of dumbinicism. Believe it or not there are haitians & dominicans who get along well and socialize in the same class. This is not a cry for acceptance since I am secure in my identity n don't need to ba

cont. When u know better there is no need to quarrel with a dillusional dominican that comes from eating plaintain and salami once a day and doesn't have a grasp of how his own society functions or malfunctions. If we haitians have to be the bigger brother and end this hatred then I will initiate it. Dominicans & Haitians need to get along for the betterment of one island that we wish we didn't share. Blame La France and Spain for that.

Am not talking to you anymore Haitiano Jabao; But talking to you has made me appreciate John more. He's more in touch with today's world (reality) than you are. I also like his plan for rebuilding Haiti's armed forces which will bring security into the country and peace. In order to ensure order, the government needs to have a monopoly on violence. After security is restored, education and the reforestation of the country are the second highest priority!!!

CF, I don't deliberately want to offend u at all but I am giving the reality of the bigger pond that you can't swim in. It's not even about you but the sad state of so many dominicans in the diaspora scrubbing tiolets demanding rights on foreign soil and pro expelling haitians out of DR. Tell me wants wrong with that picture? There is no difference between ur experience and a poor haitian in the DR except that USA has free resources that has given u a chance.

U admire John all of a sudden. I guess he's ur safety net while I see u as want u r n ur society. Ur solutions are jus that air because u have no idea of the dilemma in Haiti for that matter DR. Y hasn't the blue hats (UN) resolve the security issue in Haiti with all that man power? C'mon hasn't it occurred to u some so called friends of Haiti our wolves in sheep clothing? Creating more hostile attitude between 2 oppress people isn't helping Haiti nor DR. Ur behavior & John is part of the

JB, I see myself as a a friend to the Haitian people. I only propose solutions that can and will aide Haiti and the Haitian people move forward. Any educated person knows the power that a united Haiti poses and Haiti's contributions to the world. Do not place me in the same class as "CF".

whats my class John???

He would tell you, my friend Carlos, that you, like me and aproximately 85% of the dominican population, are fascist, racist, nazist, knights of the KKK, and all other names ending with "ist" that they have invented to attack us, not knowing that our only worry is not wanting this beautiful country of ours to end up being a wasteland like the west side currently is, a side that was once called "the pearl of the Antilles", but that now is a mini-Sahara in the middle of the Caribbean.

Welcome back Enriquillo1982. We can always count on you to spice things up.

Hey john go to you tube and look for the "new aparthied" (its a three part series, conducted by a Pakistani journalist" . and see how black south africans treat other blacks from zimbawe, angola and other places and then look at me and enriquillo1982... you'll find that your african brothers are of the same opinion as we are

What's going on here. The dried up brain cells can't muster up anymore diatribes. You guys aren't african descendant remember, rather indios descendants of the colonizers and indigenous people. The reality is a can careless if dominican/Haitians like each other but we have to respect inorder to co-exist in peace. Haiti is a major clientof dominican products & neither one can't afford to break economical ties rather should make it a priority to inform both about each other.

John have u notice out of no where ti enriquillo want's to push some buttons and cause a comotion. This character isn't content unless both nations are at each others throat. Ti enriquillo, FYI, reporters of both nations are uniting to inform both nations about issues & rid of the negative stereotypes. Haitian & Dominicans working together for a positive cause rather then type diatribes. Mezanmi, gadé yon kozé!!

CF, I watched that three part series of the new aparthied in South Africa. It is a shame that the South Africans are of the same opinion as you and enriquillo1982. I understand that borders must be protected but treating other human beings like animals is degrading.

The bottom line from the "New Apartheid" at least from my understanding was that this issue Is not about race, because they are all black, it rather about economics and the undermining of the newly freed black south african workers!

CF, you are right. Race was not the issue, but treating other human beings like animals regardless of who is doing it (Black or White) should not be tolerated. Any country has a right to protect its borders but no country has a right to dehumanize other human beings. We fought against the holocaust and slavery for a reason. Every human being regardless of color, nationality, sex, and religion should be treated with respect. We are all God's Children.

I agree with you... but human society is not there yet, perhaps globalization and integration will one day put an end to it.

In the mean time, can you see what it is i advocate for? it isn't about race it is about economics!!!

Carlos let's put race to the side because in my opinion outside of hispaniola a wake up call is bound to happen and not ALL dominicans are racist just as their are racist haitians.(Oh my gosh). Globalisation is the main reason why dominicans & haitians need to work together economically & socially so we can compete with other countries in the region and afar. There is no question that DR has the right to control its borders but without hurting the people that are just trying to get by.

Dominincans have to respect human rights. Just a few days ago an dominican guard killed a haitian migrate at the massacre river 4 refusing 2 get extorted after paying the personal toll passage fee. What is the point of CESFRONT if they are violating the rights of innocent people and just taking over the trade. Haiti is now creating her own CESFRONT 2 prevent illicit trade which will only cause dominicans & haitians at the frontier to pay a double passage toll & both groups abusing their gente

LOL.... when is it going to end............

"FA", It's going to end when you start respecting your brothers and sisters from the western side of the Island. By the way it must be great to be commenting from Florida instead of DR. It must be great to be granted the rights to be a US citizen and the rights to work. It must be great to be able send your kids to our US schools and Hospitals. God Bless America and the American people.

Dominicans take to the sea to illegally enter Puerto Rico. Mexicans illegally cross the border into the USA. Haitins illegally cross the border into DR. "When is it going to end", asked Frank Aquino.

This must be the most "popular" article on the whole site. The amount of posts and counterposts is just staggering all by itself. It's like watching a ping-pong game.

I just watched the media event that you mentioned, mr. Jabao, the ironic thing of it being that, in their conclussions, the reporters mention that the most common theme on both countries media is the inmigration/human rights debate, precisely the theme that shines for its absence in all Haiti/DR governmental talks. While at the same time, the themes that are present on governmental talks (education, cultural exchanges, trade, etc.) are the ones absent in the media. What a distressing circle.

John's comment "It's going to end when you start respecting your brothers and sisters from the western side of the Island."

Before we can begin to respect Haitians the political elite needs to learn to respect our own poor people and take care of their necessities FIRST

Haitians John are not my brothers and sister

there isn't enough for two of us in one poor country...call me anything you want

CF, most Dominicans would consider you an elite. You are sitting in front of your laptop in your house in Brooklyn, New York making six figures. If you want to help poor Dominicans. Focus you resources in dismantling the narcotic networks in DR and to put and end to government corruption. Stop using the Haitians as a scapegoat to cover the real problems facing the Dominicans.

There should be cooperation in DR with Haiti in many areas some are as follows.

1. Reforestation - environmental, rivers, pollution etc...
2. Border Security: drugs, illegal immigrants, weapons
3. Trade

But i don't see cooperation as unification.... and until Haiti can establish legitimacy (control of the country) i don't see these things happening soon... believe or not guys i really do want Haiti to be a prosperous nation. it would cure so many ills for them and us

John, I was referring to the length of the discussion,you choose instead to make idiotic remarks towards me and my family; normally I would not stoop down to your level, but since you addressed me directly, I have an obligation to set u strait.
1- I’m a US citizen and my mother was born in NY so it doesn’t matter where I was born.
2- I’m a proud veteran of armed services of the U.S(my family has a rich history of service not only in U.S but in D.R as well; as a matter of fact one of my uncles was one of the first Dominican Émigrés to graduate from West point) so I don’t’ have to thankful for anything, because it’s because of me, and my family’s sacrifice, that certain people can take their freedoms for granted.
3- What I pay in taxes in year would cover my kids health and school needs ten fold; so be thankful there’s people like me to get shafted, for there to be enough capital for other peoples needs.

John, I was referring to the length of the discussion,you choose instead to make idiotic remarks towards me and my family; normally I would not stoop down to your level, but since you addressed me directly, I have an obligation to set u strait.
1- I’m a US citizen and my mother was born in NY so it doesn’t matter where I was born.
2- I’m a proud veteran of armed services of the U.S(my family has a rich history of service not only in U.S but in D.R as well; as a matter of fact one of my uncles was one of the first Dominican Émigrés to graduate from West point) so I don’t’ have to thankful for anything, because it’s because of me, and my family’s sacrifice, that certain people can take their freedoms for granted.
3- What I pay in taxes in year would cover my kids health and school needs ten fold; so be thankful there’s people like me to get shafted, for there to be enough capital for other peoples needs.

Now through organizations like the Clinton Global initiative, I have helped both Haiti and the Dr ,there are plans in the works for real change.(This is from the artist formerly know as Frank Aquino)

Racism has historic roots and will always be present. In the modern era of the advanced human race, we hold remorse for acts of the past where we didn't even participate and don't understand for the most part.

John: I understand that our current situation is our fault. While haiti is a burden for poor dominicans they are not at fault for wanting to immigrate where they can make a living. I blame my government for allowing it. I wish that i could influence my government into right action but unfortunatelly, am at a loss in such a task the same way as you are in getting haitians out of curruption and political instability. What DR needs is a revolution, no single party present (PLD or PRD, PRSC) can dig us out of this cycle of curruption. What DR needs is a new Juan Bosch and so does haiti!

CF, yes, DR needs a new Juan Bosch.

I compliment DOMINICANTODAY for this improve website.

Read good articles - http://www.49thparallel.bham.ac.uk/back/issue1/emigres.htm
http://www.binghamton.edu/fbc/dupuy.pdf
http://robbinsbecher.com/Samana.html
http://www.markdanner.com/articles/print/91

?:

please dont disrespect our national heroes duarte is the founder and father of the dominican republic and it's people regardless of there race.

WTF? is this stupid shit?

dont get mad the truth hurts!

Juan Pablo Duarte y Diez his own words - Mientras no se escarmiente a los traidores como se debe, los buenos dominicanos seran siempre victima de sus maquinaciones.

Litsen in Haiti Toussaint Louverture and Jean Jacques Dessalines, Henri Christophe massacred all the white french colonist all 30,000, so please stop playing the role of the st. bernard you guys are racist!!!!!

this thread is filled with foolish anti-dominican sentiment so i had to post facts in a very fierce and forward distasteful manner!!!!!

Arcatype, you are demented.

Sure im demented?

who do you haitians and dominicans want to win over this issue, hatred or peace?

John & Jabao-You both have written so much crap and distorted the facts to support your thesis that it is pathetic. Let me tell you one thing Afro-buddies, you are foolish idealists, suffer from both historical and geografical naivete and are confusing culture with race. You should leave your afro-centrist mentality at home, because once you leave the states, and I hate to disappoint you, but most black people from other countries will neither identify with your US American racial militant ideology nor understand where you are coming from or know what you are talking about.

Just because two people have common racial ancestry does not mean there will be affinity and is not a quarantee for camaraderie among those who share certain characteristic whether racial or otherwise. Africa is hugh, a big continent and very diverse, not all negroid but rather has a multitude of ethnicities, nationalities with their own particular cultures, incalculable number of different languages and dialect

To your surprise and dismay, it is a common everyday occurence, your black African brothers and sisters kill each other in tribal conflicts. But most remarkable is the wide spread intra-tribal warfare typical of most communal societies, capable of escalation to all-out wars of annihilation between their very own kind. There has always been very serious conflicts among ethnic communities, within black Africans which has resulted in massacres. One example among many and most significant is the Rwandan Genocide of 1994 in which mass killing of hundreds of thousands of Rwanda's Tutsis and Hutu political moderates by Hutus under the Hutu Power ideology. Ethnic and inter-ethnic war-torn Africa is hopeless, has gone on for centuries and suffers from what is believed to be chronic conflict fatigue. Looks like black-on-black violence has not change much since the jungle days of slavery up to our present day contemporary urban society.

John your well informed ignorance is quite evident. You need to travel to both Haiti and the DR to understand the differences between culture and race. But don't expect to meet your long lost African relatives separated from each other as a consequence of the slave trade. Put your text books away, just read them only to prepare for your semester exams so you can pass . What you lack is real true to life pragmatic thought, which you definitely and no doubt are deficient.