In a recent report by the network Aljazeera: “Stranded: The stateless Haitians,” the plight of an undetermined number of those nationals in the Dominican Republic is once again shown to the world.
But once again, the objectiveness of the work is hobbled by perhaps unintentional sprinklings of clichés that Dominicans have long been accustomed to. Aljazeera’s term of “systematically” to refer to the Government’s right to refuse issuing citizenship documents to people who don’t qualify, based on its Constitution is an example.
Perhaps what will most stir the Dominican’s rebuke is Aljazeera’s quoting of a local human rights activist, whom again uses the cliché “stateless” to refer to Haitians born here, when the simple fact is that they are simply that…Haitians.
And once again a well thought out, clearly written piece of foreign journalism, instead of helping solve some of the problems between the Hispaniola neighbors, will instead stoke them even further.
jorge.pineda@dominicantoday.com
From: Dominican Republic
Mr Pineda, before you write maybe you need to listen to what these people are saying. A foreigner living in the country since 1957. They have kids and grandkids born on Dominican soil. Anyone born on Dominican soil is Dominican. Read your Constitution - any of the dozens of versions - all say the same. The only reason these people are going through this is because we systematically import this slave labor, and treat them like animals. Thank God we are a Christian nation.
You sir, are a racist.
From: Dominican Republic
Let me further add that I am a son of foreign parents. Mine aren't Haitian though, they're American. I am white, not black. I have never had any trouble gaining my Dominican citizenship and cédula. What a coincidence!
Written by: EDITOR, 19 Jul 2011 4:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic
dkwannabe, As a "triracial" the term racist doesn't fit me. I believe that an in-depth debate is healthy in this issue. But again, the Constitution is clear. That said we do acknowledge that the morass in government agencies, corruption and yes even racism, work against Dominicans of Haitian descent from obtaining documents.
Written by: lovingit, 19 Jul 2011 6:03 PM
From: United States, Delaware
KISKEYAMAN and dkwannabe
First, the Dominican constituation that denies citizenship to children of foreign born parents applies to all nationals whose status in the country is "in transit" not just Haitians. Because of their usual illegal plight, Haitians are the group that gets affected and highlighted the most because there are a large number of them considered "in transit", but the same is true for the Chinese, Colombians, or citizens of any nation that illegally enters the DR or violates their Visa status.
Your parents, dkwannabe, although American, were able to present a legal status on the country, and therefore declare you accordingly, which gives you the right to Dominican citizinship.
Not too far back, Miss Puerto Plata (Ioanna Giouzzepos), a beauty queen, was disqualified from the Miss DR peagant because her nor her Greek parents were able to provide the required paperwork that certified her as a DR citizen (like Cedula). It has nothing to do with Black, White, etc.
From: Dominican Republic
If all these people have been "in transit" for decades they should qualify for citizenship based on continuous physical presence alone, never mind their Dominican born children. I realize that's a whole other can of worms, but hey don't we have 20-30% unemployment here? I'm sure there are lots of construction jobs and sugar industry jobs if the law is upheld.
We can't have it both ways. If we want the cheap labor, we must as a matter of human decency afford these people their basic rights. It is certainly a violation of their human rights to leave this problem unsolved.
From: Dominican Republic
Points taken, and refreshing to get informative ones on the internet for a change!
Someone who has been here since 1957 is hardly "in transit." I realize that legally that might be the case, but it's just wrong. When the laws are so blatantly wrong, they need changing. Otherwise they need to completely uphold the law and deport all of them, period. I mean, we are talking the letter of the law here, right?
continues....
From: Dominican Republic
I split the above as it was too big, but it seems to be reversed.
From: United States, Brooklyn
Another foreign perceptive on matter they don't care nor understand. Aljezeera like all the other countries media failed to cast the blame in Haiti itself and instead blames us Dominicans for their miserable existence
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Mr. Jorge Pineda:
What a fine and professional journalism job !! KUDOS !!!! for You, the haitian purpose is to force
and violate our laws to their convenience, and God forbid that They abtain their goals since it will
be the colapse of our country foundation, I don't think that We are so weak to the extend that We
have to sink the whole island to please international community and our enemies of 200 years "The
Haitians" regardless ! it is not racism !!!! period it is our right to protect our country, one island, 2 countries, 2 languages, different behaviors........
Written by: Atabey, 20 Jul 2011 2:11 PM
From: United States, NYC
Kudos Mr. Pineda. What the pro-Haitian crowd have never attempted to come to terms with is that the main issue in all this resides in Haiti. It is THEIR FAILURE to control THEIR SIDE of the border that has allowed this massive situation to develop. In addition, you have the grave issue of NOT PROVIDING HAITIANS WITH THEIR LEGAL HAITIAN CITIZENSHIP DOCUMENTS! Why is this grave denial of citizenship NOT DISCUSSED? Many Dominicans believe the reason very calculated and illegal: to remove as many people from Haiti as possible; essentially HUMAN POVERTY DUMPING on a Massive scale. If DR were a rich and large nation perhaps she could accommodate the entire Haitian nation. But DR is not rich nor is she large enough to do so.
Until Haiti and her supporters come to terms with their underhanded goal of Human Poverty Dumping, DR should stand strong and tall against their nefarious dealings. And it's about time DR officials started calling this issue: Human Poverty Dumping.
From: Dominican Republic
According to the Dominican Constitution,
http://www.suprema.gov.do/PDF_2/constitucion/Constitucion.pdf"Artículo 18.- Nacionalidad. Son dominicanas y dominicanos:"
"3) Las personas nacidas en territorio nacional, con excepción de los hijos e hijas de
extranjeros miembros de legaciones diplomáticas y consulares, de extranjeros
que se hallen en tránsito o residan ilegalmente en territorio dominicano."
"Article 18.- Nationality. Dominicans are those:"
"3) People born in the national territory, except the sons and daughters of
foreigners that are members of diplomatic and consular missions, foreigners
who are in transit or residing illegally in Dominican territory."
This is the law in Dominican Republic plain and simple.
- Just because an illegal immigrant manages to avoid deportation for 1, 5 or 50 years, it does not entitles he/she citizenship or residency.
- "ignorantia legis neminem excusat" (ignorance of the law excuses no one).
From: United States
Wow jrrubirosa I didn't know we have been enemies for the last 200 years yet my for father help you gain your independence. The funny thing about dr is that you have had so manny independence day not just the 27 feb. Go to washington height yell imigracion and see how fast the street clears out. But their kids are what? American. So take a chill pill and relax
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jul 2011 9:57 AM
From: United States, NYC
"Article 18.- Nationality. Dominicans are those:"
"3) People born in the national territory, except the sons and daughters of
foreigners that are members of diplomatic and consular missions, foreigners
who are in transit or residing illegally in Dominican territory."
From: United States
I read the distorted logic of some posters here and I want to laugh. One thing is to disagree with the law, everyone has a right to disagree, but it is another to demand entitlement to citizenship because, "I have been here a long time and therefore not really "in-transit."
I once met a gentleman, who had been driving without a license 30+ yrs. He was illiterate in his native tongue, could neither read nor write English, never could pass the written exam by DMV. One day it caught up to him. He had an accident and was arrested. After all these years, he had been an excellent, safe drive, never once stopped by the police. Does this entitle him to a license? Well maybe, but that is not what the law states.
The same with squatters who decide to take some piece of private property and make it home. After 50+ yrs they think the land belongs to them. Are they entitled? Definitely not. The same applies to Haitians, an extended stay does not automatically grant rights to anything.
From: United States
Attabey is that law retroactive .after 3 generation what ever country that parent is from do you think. That child is consider citizen of that country.beside we will go were the jobs are. If you wish for me not toto come and do slave labor, the jobs that you are not willing to do fine.give the employers hefty fine .prison .they won't hire me and I will not come and the dominicans in pr you have to leave to because they treat you the way you treat us.
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jul 2011 4:09 PM
From: United States, NYC
That child is subject to the law. If the Dominican State decides to grant that child Dominican Citizenship then s/he becomes a citizen. That's the law. If you cross the border illegally, you and all your descendants are by law illegal. I believe that in Germany, you need to be German, as in having German blood, in order to gain immediate citizenship. And other states have strong statues governing who can become a citizen. If you go to Switzerland and have a child, that child is NOT AUTOMATICALLY a citizen of Switzerland. If the child's parents are Dominican, the child is Dominican under Swiss law.
What many people don't want to acknowledge is that for too long, Haiti has been practicing Human dumping of its overpopulated Nation-State. In a large nation such as the USA, the numbers wouldn't really register much attention, but in a small developing nation such as DR, the numbers are overwhelming.
From: United States
Atabey I am not saying you are wrong .everry country has rules.and we must obey those laws.when I go to dr the cops tell me to move I move I don't argue he is there to uphold the law and I have to obey him. But its the racism that comes out of peoples mouth I think that is hurtful.most people in this forumhas friends or themselves have been ilegal in the states. You see we are fighting among ourselves.and they are laughthing all the way to the bank .we fight they make money.before I started going to dr I use to think of dominican a certain way. Now I see what I used to think was not true my girlfriend said the same thing to she did know any haitian
From: Dominican Republic
@the_haitian, this is what the current constitution states...
"Artículo 18.- Nacionalidad. Son dominicanas y dominicanos:
2) Quienes gocen de la nacionalidad dominicana antes de la entrada en vigencia de esta Constitución;"
"Article 18. - Nationality. Dominicans are those:
2) Those who enjoy the Dominican citizenship before the entry into force of this Constitution; "
The child, in the scenario that you describe, will not be considered Dominican.
From: United States
But what year did the article 18 was voted into the conct... and was it retroactive
From: Dominican Republic
Hi the_haitian,
The latest constitution was voted in 2010. With regards to the article the addresses Nationality (18), the difference between the current constitution (2010) and the previous one (2002), with respect to paragraph 3., was the the addition of the following exception:
"...or residing illegally in Dominican territory."
This amendment is retroactively, unless you can prove your Dominican citizenship before its enactment.
Side note: The Dominican Government tends to promulgate a new constitution whenever an amendment is ratified.
From: Haiti
ARCANGEL
are you agree with the act of your government?
according to me
it `s handling of the Dominican government to escape Their Responsibilities To The People Who Were Born in the Dominican rep.
it `s an shameful to the Dominican rep to act by changing the constitution in the aim to give up the people. and more people speak only spanish and have the culture of the dominican people. the don`t know nothing about haiti. do you think is normal to give up the people because their parents are ilegals?
imagine if your parents are illegals you pay for them, because that `they are illegal? Put yourself two seconds in place of these people, you alllez understand their despair. T's an an hypocrite behaviour all people know that is a act anti haitian. but the people are not haitian. only song of haitian who born in dominican republic. a day those people become a bomb which explode your country of tourist.
i am agree with this article.
Written by: Atabey, 23 Jul 2011 12:50 PM
From: United States, NYC
Human Poverty dumping is wrong. When your side accepts its responsibility for encouraging this modern plague on other states, then the problem can at least be conversed responsibly. Your failure to address this fundamental aspect of the problem is THE main issue preventing this discussion from being initiated.
From: Dominican Republic
@KISKEYAMAN,
The amendment to "jus soli" (Latin: right of the soil) article in the Dominican constitution is not something new or exclusive to DR. Several countries in the world "impose additional requirements for children of foreign parents, such as the parent being a permanent resident." Some of these countries are: UK, France, Rep. of Ireland. In fact, "jus soli" seems to be only practice on about 20% of the countries in the world, the rest uses "Jus sanguinis (Latin: right of blood)" , where citizenship is not determined by the place of birth, but by having at least one parent be a citizen of that nation.
So the question is, do the sons bear the sins of the fathers? By law they can. I believe that many Dominicans understand the levels of poverty and despair that the Haitian people are going thru. We have similar issues too. We've been trying to illegally migrate to US and Puerto Rico for decades ourselves, in order to give our offspring a fighting change for a better life.
From: Haiti
arcangel
arcangel you don't answer to me. are you agree with the dominican law?
in france you have the right of soil. But if you was born in france even if your parents are illegal you become french when you have eighteen years. even rained early if you are applying for French nationality.
but no country make the right of blood. the dr make this law to give up those people who have the dominican culture.
From: Haiti
ARCANGEL1 "So the question is, do the sons bear the sins of the fathers? By law they can. I believe that many Dominicans understand the levels of poverty and despair that the Haitian people are going thru. We have similar issues too. We've been trying to illegally migrate to US and Puerto Rico for decades ourselves, in order to give our offspring a fighting change for a better life. "
From: Haiti
ARCANGEL1 "So the question is, do the sons bear the sins of the fathers? By law they can. I believe that many Dominicans understand the levels of poverty and despair that the Haitian people are going thru. We have similar issues too. We've been trying to illegally migrate to US and Puerto Rico for decades ourselves, in order to give our offspring a fighting change for a better life. "
From: Haiti
ARCANGEL2
what do you mean by the last sentence? the two Caribbean nations who emigrate the most are Dominicans and Haitians. If it was not the Haitian diaspora haiti should no longer exist in my opinion.
Every Haitian who has a family abroad has a hope to receiving money. Again I say to you, the Haitian of diaspora send nearly 2 billion per year haiti? and how the Dominicans sent a year in Dominican Rep?
Unfortunately a lot of those 2 billion, balance the deficit of trade balance with the republic Dominican.
I think it is necessary that we stop giving commercially to the Dominicans, 900 million dollars by year for the products we Haitians can create at home.
From: Haiti
ARCANGEL3
I openly say we need to rebalance the trade balance. And that we'll make it by taxing our businessmen, without vision who prefer the ease of import instead of creating or investing in theirs own country. And taxing the products of dominican republic.
All the money we give you, it is necessary that we stop this and only this way you will see our important to you.
From: Haiti
ARCANGEL3
I openly say we need to rebalance the trade balance. And that we'll make it by taxing our businessmen, without vision who prefer the ease of import instead of creating or investing in theirs own country. And taxing the products of dominican republic.
All the money we give you, it is necessary that we stop this and only this way you will see our important to you.
From: Dominican Republic
@KISKEYAMAN, Yes, I agree with this law. The Dominican government is entitle to create and/or amend the laws that defines Dominican citizenship. Currently, border enforcement, between the two countries, is almost none existent. It is very easy for a Haitian mother to illegally walk into Dominican Rep. and give birth at one of our hospitals. In general, it is very easy for most Haitians to travel illegally into Dominican Rep. The population increase that derives from illegal Haitians, in DR, puts a strain in our limited resources, that we cannot afford.
From: United States
Arcangel how you can you say. It put a strain on the economy.when in reality it is the haitian worker that keeps the dominican economy moving.if it wasn't so you don't think. Theborder would be secure.find out how much of your product is bought in haiti.yhe buyer allways has more power then the one who is selling.the problem with haiti is the boy pulling the cow. If the cow. Knew how strong it was it would never let the. Boy oulled him
From: Haiti
arcangel and the other dominican
please remember the ban on egg `that` we have been imposed to your eggs after the disease has chicken. your peasants and industrialists begging us to buy them. You even take some corners of the border to smuggle your eggs.
now we are your cash cow. it makes me laugh that when the man like atabey said that haiti is poor when we buy your products for almost one billion of dollars . you will cry when we halved that amount and believe me it `s for soon.
From: Haiti
ARCANGEL
I think the solution IS to Give to the people the Nationality Because THEY Have dominican born in your country. The Dominican and the border closed Cdn. you going to see What Country is really dependent.
The Dominican Benefit too much the Lack of vision of our business man.
and our government to invest Who Have dr. if you close the border i am Willing to bet your country Will Have a civil war.
Speaking too close the border and see if it isn `t thanks to Haitians that you have a better standard of living at home.
civil war
From: Dominican Republic
@the_haitian, I agree that many Haitians work in many sectors of the Dominican economy. However, not all Haitians work on the formal sectors of DR economy (agriculture, construction, ect). It is estimated that after the devastating earthquake in Haiti (2010), the population of illegal immigrants in DR swelled from 500K to 1 million (approx.). This population increase, in DR, can not be sustain. I doubt that DR creates 100K jobs annually, let alone the amount needed to sustain both populations combined.
From: Dominican Republic
@the_haitian, Moreover, It can be argue that since, most of the illegal immigrants are basically working on the informal sector of the economy (they are not being taxed) or working on the formal sector, and not being reported (paid under the table) , that this constitutes lost revenues to the Dominican government, which is also unsustainable.
From: United States
Arcangel you have to know after the earthquake. Haitians did move to dr their family rented appartment for them,send money weekly,monthly.wich is a plus to dr economy.
From: Dominican Republic
@the_haitian, I will agree that many did, or still do, however I believe that this was/is more the exception than the rule.
From: Dominican Republic
@KISKEYAMAN, I agree that Haiti is an important market for Dominican goods. I also agree that their is an enormous trade imbalance between the two countries, however how is that related to the issue of border enforcement and illegal immigration? If your argument is that a more prosperous and stable Haiti would make it less appealing for poor Haitians to illegally enter DR, then I totally agree with you. Should the Haitian government tax any imported goods? I don't see why not. This is pretty much the norm in all countries.
From: Haiti
i think the solution is to stop the trade imbalance. can you tell me why your government let and continue to let a lot of illegal haitian come in your country?
Because a lot of foreign invest don t want to work with the dominican people. It`s not me who say that but the people who have the economy of your country. and you know i have other reasons for that. the government dominican are verry corrupt like the government haitian. the tuarist give you a lot of money so why a lot of dominican continuous to go illegaly to usa? meanwhile you past your time to critic the haitian people your government continuous to steal the money that the touarist bring.
You know arcangel the government of dominican rep are very hypocrite, the have the way to stop the illegal but the prefer take a law and let the illegal go to dr for for help the foreign who invest in your country. the day haiti become well all haitian in your country,
the workers will come back in haiti. and there your country will
From: Dominican Republic
@KISKEYAMAN, The Dominican government does not encourage the illegal immigration to DR, it actually wants it to stop. Perhaps, you are referring to the private sector, which for decades have been hiring illegal Haitians immigrants and paying them less than the official minimum wage.
I agree with you that tourism generates a lot of revenue for Dominican Republic, however this is not enough to propels us out of a 14.2% unemployment. The reason why many Dominicans legally and illegally migrate to the USA, and other countries, is because there are no sufficient decent paying jobs around.
Moreover, It is not economically feasible for DR to physically secure and seal 360 km of border.
From: United States
Arcangel you really believe wants to stop illegal haitian to come in. Man wake up and smell the coffe who do you think control your gov. Don't you understand its the same thing in states they blame the mexican for all the problems of the us yet they work hard long hours sometime 14hr for less then minum wage.look if the us. And dr wants to stop illegal just fine the employers hefty fine make it to expensive to hire illegal .problem solve
From: Dominican Republic
@the_haitian, I agree that "fines" are a start to to illegal immigration issue. However, I don't think that they, by itself, would solve the problem. The illegal immigration to DR will persist as long as the economic and social situation of Haiti does not improve.
From: United States
All of you have stated very valid points regarding the causes of the illegal immigration and solutions to change them. Haiti's economy must start producing many of the products imported from DR. This will certainly create more opportunities at home for the migrants and reverse the flow into DR.
This however will not affect the 2nd and 3rd generation of haitians born and raised in DR which is the main point of this article.
I believe for humane reasons as well as practical that the status of these Dominico-Haitians should be addressed. It is unreasonable to expect that these kids raised in Dominican culture and language would willingly move to Haiti even if there were opportunities once they reach adult age. Especially the 3rd generation who I am sure as Kman stated don't even speak Creole. Sending these particular group to Haiti would not be right. Especially in the present state of things. Cont.
From: United States
I would suggest to give the 3rd generation citizenship outright which would permit them to fully participate in all aspects of society including higher learning as well as the ability to further migrate to more prosperous nations. For those born in DR from the Haitian earlier migrants and who are now adults some legal residency combined with Haitian citizenship should be given to them from a cooperating Haitian gov't. This will again allow them better opportunities including the documents to further migrate. For the extra 1.5 million recent (post year 2000) immigrants and their young the present deportation laws should be rigorously applied.
This should be a fair compromise. The Dominican raised haitians would be able to raise their standard of living and the excess massive human dumping would be reversed. This will curtail people like madamoiselle Pierre from further comments and incitement.
From: Haiti
VAGAN
Are you willing to let them become president of dominican republic?
Why you blame this Mlle Pierre, she is a great person you know. She's very courageous!
Written by: marisold, 16 Aug 2011 7:59 AM
From: Canada, Toronto
What a fine and professional journalism job !! KUDOS !!!!
Ok. (1) when i see the 'nations of the first World' and USA granting and admiting dominicans or any other latino, born in their soil from ilegal parents as 'americans' we dominicans we'll do the same. (2) if the dominican goverment would really be interested in stopping ilegal haitian immigrants long time ago they would have built a WALL, yes a chinese type wall, isn't that for 'protection'-- ilegal aliens and security -- as used by USA itself today? so. Dom. Rep must do and support a WALL. it will save millions, avoid problems. Aljazeera is always backing up terrorist so whatever they inform belongs to the trash. They should talk about their Middle East issues, especially the one concerning the arabs not wanting to absorb the 'so called "palestian"--arabs- who want to rob Israel of what belongs to them.
Written by: marisold, 16 Aug 2011 8:09 AM
From: Canada, Toronto
check the news, not kids born of ilegal parents have the same ' birth certificate' can't dominicans do the same? YES WE CAN. it's our nation, we got nohing but ATRASO when DR was occupied by them..... nothing has changed, 60% of them brings that. They are poorer, they are illiterate, they need money , etc their culture is not our culture. They even bring curses, now that they are in our side, even a bigger earthquake is due ! DR should built a chinese type of WALL, at least it
Written by: marisold, 16 Aug 2011 8:09 AM
From: Canada, Toronto
Dominican Republic should built a WALL in the whole fronteir. I don't know why Trujillo didn't? at least it would been there just needing 'repairs' i'm very sure that if now they just start the 'internatinal' community will 'cry out' GUESS WHAT? USA is expanding theirs agaings mexicans because they don't want more of them, why do we like more ilegal haitians? We already have our own problems. I said NO way jose to give domincan citizenship to children born of ilegal haitians, isn't that what USA is doing now?
From: United States
Bonjour Kman
By the way the correct short version of my nomme de guerre is VENGANZA, not Vagan - which sounds like Vago which means lazy. Have you been talking to my wife?
I am not blaming Madamoiselle Pierre for anything other than being a little overzealous in her quest to grant Dominican citizenship to every Haitian born in Dominican territory. If we were to follow her guidelines many pregnant Haitian women would simply cross the border to give birth given the present conditions in Haiti , n'est pas?
Regarding your querry as to the presidency many Dominicans wanted to give the presidency to Jose Francisco Pena Gomez who was only a first generation Dominican of Haitian parents. Why not to a 2nd or 3rd generation? If the child of a Haitian descendent has the aptitude and preparation to lead the nation why shouldn't he be given the opportunity? Too bad Pena Gomez died before his time. Instead of Hippolito in 2000 we could have had his leadership and intellect.
From: Dominican Republic
@marisold,
A wall by itself is not a deterrent, it is merely a speed bump. In USA millions are invested in high tech border security systems, that work in conjunction with the different border fences to deter illegal immigration. Equipment such as ground radar, infrared cameras, towers, CCTV and others are not cheap. I think the reason why we still have porous borders is strictly economical.
From: United States
@ mari sold ???? Anyway trujillo you know mother was haitian let me tell you something since it seems a lot of ppl like to bring his name up was not killing haitian he was killing dominican to annybody that was a darker skin color. C what he did to lighten up the color. Talk to some old dominican they will tell you. Guys have librar y read. I don't want to talk him but in anny country in the world illegal will allways exist as long as the rich want cheap labor politician could talk all they want but you know who control the purse
From: Haiti
marisold
don't be naive or blind. Your government know haiti give them 900 000 000 usd by year.
If he built a wall your country will be down. how much money your country lost, by the fault of the haitian's illegal?
not more than the money he wins by the trade balance with haiti.
From: Haiti
marisold why sold MDR
'They are poorer, they are illiterate, they need money , etc their culture is not our culture. '
DR is rich? a lot of people about your country are illiterate and need money especially very poor. why you critic other the in yourcountry you have the same.
They even bring curses, ' what curves? You speak about curves because we have earTHquake?
JAPON HAVE A LOT OF CURSES THEN? no?
YOU KNOW WHAT Your country is not safe from an earthquake, you and your countrymen forget whe share the same island. And the day where your country will hurt, it will be a great hurt.
never you will built a wall
From: Haiti
venganzaderafael,
By the way the correct short version of my nomme de guerre is VENGANZA, not Vagan - which sounds like Vago which means lazy. Have you been talking to my wife?
AHHAHAHAHA I didn't know vago means lazy. Sorry. But so called me kiskeyaman.
how are you?
She denounce the bad conditions of live of haitians in DR. The denounce the batey, she is a very good woman. she has a lot of courage to denouce those act in a country who have a lot of people who hate haitians.
From: Haiti
venganzaderafael
Regarding your querry as to the presidency many Dominicans wanted to give the presidency to Jose Francisco Pena Gomez who was only a first generation Dominican of Haitian parents. Why not to a 2nd or 3rd generation? If the child of a Haitian descendent has the aptitude and preparation to lead the nation why shouldn't he be given the opportunity?
Jose Francisco Pena Gomez, i don't know all story about this hombré.
But i hear a lot of HAITIAN who tell about him. he was a great leader of DR.
did he win an election of presidency IN DR?
another candidate are steal his victory in the election of presidency?
From: Haiti
are there another candidate that has stole his VICTORY to an Election of presidency?
From: United States
@kiskeyman the story was that he was wining or he won but some brought race in the equation as he was a darker skin dominican(haitian) not to bring a civil war he decide to get out but I am not I will ask my friend father he should know or I will google it
From: Haiti
THE HAITIAN?
Are you sure, the mother of trullo was haitian?
ARE YOU SURE, he kills black dominican? or not black haitians?
You know in our side a lot of haitian told me the cons of trullo kills near 60 000 haitians.
Because he was black and his aims are they dominican look like white and not blacks.
But this idiot of trullo create a great problem in the head of dominicans.
A LOT OF DONT understand or don't recognise their origin african and haitian.
From: United States
Yes kiskeyaman he killed haitian and dominican if you were of darker skin tone he would kill you. To make sure that the country would not come up in uproar he said there were all haitian. After the massacre was about to invade dr but the us step in. And said that dr had to pay haitian familly of those who died. A sum was decide but the amount was never paid.less then 1/4 was actually paid then the politician stole that amount. The haitian that was in the batey was never touch.those who him so much why was he murdered. Why was there big uproar about hi life that his daughter wrote
From: Dominican Republic
@Kiskeyaman
Rafael L. Trujillo was a brutal dictator that ruled Dominican Rep. from 18 May 1942 – 16 August 1952. His regime was directly responsible for, at least, 50,000 people (including 20,000 in the "Parley Massacre"). The motives for his killings were various and were not limited to someone skin color. It did not matter your social status or if you were Dominican, or not, if you were a threat he would dispose of you in the most vicious and sadistic way.
His despicle actions are nothing any freedom loving Dominican would celebrate or advocate.
From: United States
@Arcangel 96 like I said before. Dominicans who are educated tend to have different way of thinking I have to many domicans friends to believe some of the poster are the way all dominicans think. @kiskeyaman. Pina gomez was born of a haitian father and mother in the massacre br trujillo his parent back to haiti and was addopted by a domican family was a mayor of the city of santo domingo in the presidential race he lost but it was a closse call some say the race was stolen
From: United States
I can't. Believe this story was written on july 19 and today is 9/20 and we still on that subject
From: United States
-@marisold any. Children born in the us or canada from ilegal parents are american or canadian.9ntuesday there was big earthquake in the new england area wall you say the us was curse. You have to think,inform before you speak
From: United States
Its funny also that the Haitian constitution grants citizenship to any and all Haitians, no matter where their place of birth, via "Jus Sanguinis" (right of blood)......
These Haitians aren't stateless, they are merely undocumented by choice
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You sir, are a racist.
First, the Dominican constituation that denies citizenship to children of foreign born parents applies to all nationals whose status in the country is "in transit" not just Haitians. Because of their usual illegal plight, Haitians are the group that gets affected and highlighted the most because there are a large number of them considered "in transit", but the same is true for the Chinese, Colombians, or citizens of any nation that illegally enters the DR or violates their Visa status.
Your parents, dkwannabe, although American, were able to present a legal status on the country, and therefore declare you accordingly, which gives you the right to Dominican citizinship.
Not too far back, Miss Puerto Plata (Ioanna Giouzzepos), a beauty queen, was disqualified from the Miss DR peagant because her nor her Greek parents were able to provide the required paperwork that certified her as a DR citizen (like Cedula). It has nothing to do with Black, White, etc.
We can't have it both ways. If we want the cheap labor, we must as a matter of human decency afford these people their basic rights. It is certainly a violation of their human rights to leave this problem unsolved.
Someone who has been here since 1957 is hardly "in transit." I realize that legally that might be the case, but it's just wrong. When the laws are so blatantly wrong, they need changing. Otherwise they need to completely uphold the law and deport all of them, period. I mean, we are talking the letter of the law here, right?
continues....
Another foreign perceptive on matter they don't care nor understand. Aljezeera like all the other countries media failed to cast the blame in Haiti itself and instead blames us Dominicans for their miserable existence
What a fine and professional journalism job !! KUDOS !!!! for You, the haitian purpose is to force
and violate our laws to their convenience, and God forbid that They abtain their goals since it will
be the colapse of our country foundation, I don't think that We are so weak to the extend that We
have to sink the whole island to please international community and our enemies of 200 years "The
Haitians" regardless ! it is not racism !!!! period it is our right to protect our country, one island, 2 countries, 2 languages, different behaviors........
Until Haiti and her supporters come to terms with their underhanded goal of Human Poverty Dumping, DR should stand strong and tall against their nefarious dealings. And it's about time DR officials started calling this issue: Human Poverty Dumping.
http://www.suprema.gov.do/PDF_2/constitucion/Constitucion.pdf
"Artículo 18.- Nacionalidad. Son dominicanas y dominicanos:"
"3) Las personas nacidas en territorio nacional, con excepción de los hijos e hijas de
extranjeros miembros de legaciones diplomáticas y consulares, de extranjeros
que se hallen en tránsito o residan ilegalmente en territorio dominicano."
"Article 18.- Nationality. Dominicans are those:"
"3) People born in the national territory, except the sons and daughters of
foreigners that are members of diplomatic and consular missions, foreigners
who are in transit or residing illegally in Dominican territory."
This is the law in Dominican Republic plain and simple.
- Just because an illegal immigrant manages to avoid deportation for 1, 5 or 50 years, it does not entitles he/she citizenship or residency.
- "ignorantia legis neminem excusat" (ignorance of the law excuses no one).
"3) People born in the national territory, except the sons and daughters of
foreigners that are members of diplomatic and consular missions, foreigners
who are in transit or residing illegally in Dominican territory."
I once met a gentleman, who had been driving without a license 30+ yrs. He was illiterate in his native tongue, could neither read nor write English, never could pass the written exam by DMV. One day it caught up to him. He had an accident and was arrested. After all these years, he had been an excellent, safe drive, never once stopped by the police. Does this entitle him to a license? Well maybe, but that is not what the law states.
The same with squatters who decide to take some piece of private property and make it home. After 50+ yrs they think the land belongs to them. Are they entitled? Definitely not. The same applies to Haitians, an extended stay does not automatically grant rights to anything.
What many people don't want to acknowledge is that for too long, Haiti has been practicing Human dumping of its overpopulated Nation-State. In a large nation such as the USA, the numbers wouldn't really register much attention, but in a small developing nation such as DR, the numbers are overwhelming.
"Artículo 18.- Nacionalidad. Son dominicanas y dominicanos:
2) Quienes gocen de la nacionalidad dominicana antes de la entrada en vigencia de esta Constitución;"
"Article 18. - Nationality. Dominicans are those:
2) Those who enjoy the Dominican citizenship before the entry into force of this Constitution; "
The child, in the scenario that you describe, will not be considered Dominican.
The latest constitution was voted in 2010. With regards to the article the addresses Nationality (18), the difference between the current constitution (2010) and the previous one (2002), with respect to paragraph 3., was the the addition of the following exception:
"...or residing illegally in Dominican territory."
This amendment is retroactively, unless you can prove your Dominican citizenship before its enactment.
Side note: The Dominican Government tends to promulgate a new constitution whenever an amendment is ratified.
are you agree with the act of your government?
according to me
it `s handling of the Dominican government to escape Their Responsibilities To The People Who Were Born in the Dominican rep.
it `s an shameful to the Dominican rep to act by changing the constitution in the aim to give up the people. and more people speak only spanish and have the culture of the dominican people. the don`t know nothing about haiti. do you think is normal to give up the people because their parents are ilegals?
imagine if your parents are illegals you pay for them, because that `they are illegal? Put yourself two seconds in place of these people, you alllez understand their despair. T's an an hypocrite behaviour all people know that is a act anti haitian. but the people are not haitian. only song of haitian who born in dominican republic. a day those people become a bomb which explode your country of tourist.
i am agree with this article.
The amendment to "jus soli" (Latin: right of the soil) article in the Dominican constitution is not something new or exclusive to DR. Several countries in the world "impose additional requirements for children of foreign parents, such as the parent being a permanent resident." Some of these countries are: UK, France, Rep. of Ireland. In fact, "jus soli" seems to be only practice on about 20% of the countries in the world, the rest uses "Jus sanguinis (Latin: right of blood)" , where citizenship is not determined by the place of birth, but by having at least one parent be a citizen of that nation.
So the question is, do the sons bear the sins of the fathers? By law they can. I believe that many Dominicans understand the levels of poverty and despair that the Haitian people are going thru. We have similar issues too. We've been trying to illegally migrate to US and Puerto Rico for decades ourselves, in order to give our offspring a fighting change for a better life.
arcangel you don't answer to me. are you agree with the dominican law?
in france you have the right of soil. But if you was born in france even if your parents are illegal you become french when you have eighteen years. even rained early if you are applying for French nationality.
but no country make the right of blood. the dr make this law to give up those people who have the dominican culture.
what do you mean by the last sentence? the two Caribbean nations who emigrate the most are Dominicans and Haitians. If it was not the Haitian diaspora haiti should no longer exist in my opinion.
Every Haitian who has a family abroad has a hope to receiving money. Again I say to you, the Haitian of diaspora send nearly 2 billion per year haiti? and how the Dominicans sent a year in Dominican Rep?
Unfortunately a lot of those 2 billion, balance the deficit of trade balance with the republic Dominican.
I think it is necessary that we stop giving commercially to the Dominicans, 900 million dollars by year for the products we Haitians can create at home.
I openly say we need to rebalance the trade balance. And that we'll make it by taxing our businessmen, without vision who prefer the ease of import instead of creating or investing in theirs own country. And taxing the products of dominican republic.
All the money we give you, it is necessary that we stop this and only this way you will see our important to you.
I openly say we need to rebalance the trade balance. And that we'll make it by taxing our businessmen, without vision who prefer the ease of import instead of creating or investing in theirs own country. And taxing the products of dominican republic.
All the money we give you, it is necessary that we stop this and only this way you will see our important to you.
please remember the ban on egg `that` we have been imposed to your eggs after the disease has chicken. your peasants and industrialists begging us to buy them. You even take some corners of the border to smuggle your eggs.
now we are your cash cow. it makes me laugh that when the man like atabey said that haiti is poor when we buy your products for almost one billion of dollars . you will cry when we halved that amount and believe me it `s for soon.
I think the solution IS to Give to the people the Nationality Because THEY Have dominican born in your country. The Dominican and the border closed Cdn. you going to see What Country is really dependent.
The Dominican Benefit too much the Lack of vision of our business man.
and our government to invest Who Have dr. if you close the border i am Willing to bet your country Will Have a civil war.
Speaking too close the border and see if it isn `t thanks to Haitians that you have a better standard of living at home.
civil war
Because a lot of foreign invest don t want to work with the dominican people. It`s not me who say that but the people who have the economy of your country. and you know i have other reasons for that. the government dominican are verry corrupt like the government haitian. the tuarist give you a lot of money so why a lot of dominican continuous to go illegaly to usa? meanwhile you past your time to critic the haitian people your government continuous to steal the money that the touarist bring.
You know arcangel the government of dominican rep are very hypocrite, the have the way to stop the illegal but the prefer take a law and let the illegal go to dr for for help the foreign who invest in your country. the day haiti become well all haitian in your country,
the workers will come back in haiti. and there your country will
I agree with you that tourism generates a lot of revenue for Dominican Republic, however this is not enough to propels us out of a 14.2% unemployment. The reason why many Dominicans legally and illegally migrate to the USA, and other countries, is because there are no sufficient decent paying jobs around.
Moreover, It is not economically feasible for DR to physically secure and seal 360 km of border.
This however will not affect the 2nd and 3rd generation of haitians born and raised in DR which is the main point of this article.
I believe for humane reasons as well as practical that the status of these Dominico-Haitians should be addressed. It is unreasonable to expect that these kids raised in Dominican culture and language would willingly move to Haiti even if there were opportunities once they reach adult age. Especially the 3rd generation who I am sure as Kman stated don't even speak Creole. Sending these particular group to Haiti would not be right. Especially in the present state of things. Cont.
This should be a fair compromise. The Dominican raised haitians would be able to raise their standard of living and the excess massive human dumping would be reversed. This will curtail people like madamoiselle Pierre from further comments and incitement.
Are you willing to let them become president of dominican republic?
Why you blame this Mlle Pierre, she is a great person you know. She's very courageous!
Ok. (1) when i see the 'nations of the first World' and USA granting and admiting dominicans or any other latino, born in their soil from ilegal parents as 'americans' we dominicans we'll do the same. (2) if the dominican goverment would really be interested in stopping ilegal haitian immigrants long time ago they would have built a WALL, yes a chinese type wall, isn't that for 'protection'-- ilegal aliens and security -- as used by USA itself today? so. Dom. Rep must do and support a WALL. it will save millions, avoid problems. Aljazeera is always backing up terrorist so whatever they inform belongs to the trash. They should talk about their Middle East issues, especially the one concerning the arabs not wanting to absorb the 'so called "palestian"--arabs- who want to rob Israel of what belongs to them.
By the way the correct short version of my nomme de guerre is VENGANZA, not Vagan - which sounds like Vago which means lazy. Have you been talking to my wife?
I am not blaming Madamoiselle Pierre for anything other than being a little overzealous in her quest to grant Dominican citizenship to every Haitian born in Dominican territory. If we were to follow her guidelines many pregnant Haitian women would simply cross the border to give birth given the present conditions in Haiti , n'est pas?
Regarding your querry as to the presidency many Dominicans wanted to give the presidency to Jose Francisco Pena Gomez who was only a first generation Dominican of Haitian parents. Why not to a 2nd or 3rd generation? If the child of a Haitian descendent has the aptitude and preparation to lead the nation why shouldn't he be given the opportunity? Too bad Pena Gomez died before his time. Instead of Hippolito in 2000 we could have had his leadership and intellect.
A wall by itself is not a deterrent, it is merely a speed bump. In USA millions are invested in high tech border security systems, that work in conjunction with the different border fences to deter illegal immigration. Equipment such as ground radar, infrared cameras, towers, CCTV and others are not cheap. I think the reason why we still have porous borders is strictly economical.
don't be naive or blind. Your government know haiti give them 900 000 000 usd by year.
If he built a wall your country will be down. how much money your country lost, by the fault of the haitian's illegal?
not more than the money he wins by the trade balance with haiti.
'They are poorer, they are illiterate, they need money , etc their culture is not our culture. '
DR is rich? a lot of people about your country are illiterate and need money especially very poor. why you critic other the in yourcountry you have the same.
They even bring curses, ' what curves? You speak about curves because we have earTHquake?
JAPON HAVE A LOT OF CURSES THEN? no?
YOU KNOW WHAT Your country is not safe from an earthquake, you and your countrymen forget whe share the same island. And the day where your country will hurt, it will be a great hurt.
never you will built a wall
By the way the correct short version of my nomme de guerre is VENGANZA, not Vagan - which sounds like Vago which means lazy. Have you been talking to my wife?
AHHAHAHAHA I didn't know vago means lazy. Sorry. But so called me kiskeyaman.
how are you?
She denounce the bad conditions of live of haitians in DR. The denounce the batey, she is a very good woman. she has a lot of courage to denouce those act in a country who have a lot of people who hate haitians.
Regarding your querry as to the presidency many Dominicans wanted to give the presidency to Jose Francisco Pena Gomez who was only a first generation Dominican of Haitian parents. Why not to a 2nd or 3rd generation? If the child of a Haitian descendent has the aptitude and preparation to lead the nation why shouldn't he be given the opportunity?
Jose Francisco Pena Gomez, i don't know all story about this hombré.
But i hear a lot of HAITIAN who tell about him. he was a great leader of DR.
did he win an election of presidency IN DR?
another candidate are steal his victory in the election of presidency?
Are you sure, the mother of trullo was haitian?
ARE YOU SURE, he kills black dominican? or not black haitians?
You know in our side a lot of haitian told me the cons of trullo kills near 60 000 haitians.
Because he was black and his aims are they dominican look like white and not blacks.
But this idiot of trullo create a great problem in the head of dominicans.
A LOT OF DONT understand or don't recognise their origin african and haitian.
Rafael L. Trujillo was a brutal dictator that ruled Dominican Rep. from 18 May 1942 – 16 August 1952. His regime was directly responsible for, at least, 50,000 people (including 20,000 in the "Parley Massacre"). The motives for his killings were various and were not limited to someone skin color. It did not matter your social status or if you were Dominican, or not, if you were a threat he would dispose of you in the most vicious and sadistic way.
His despicle actions are nothing any freedom loving Dominican would celebrate or advocate.
These Haitians aren't stateless, they are merely undocumented by choice