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New York.– The United Nations peacekeeping mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH) is providing $250,000 to fund two construction projects in the Central Plateau region of Haiti, one of the poorest regions in the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere.

Some 2,500 people will be put to work over a period of six months on the construction of two roads as part of public works projects in Haiti.

The International Organization for Migration (IOM) is charged with overseeing the project in Marmont, which is estimated to cost some $157,000 and employ around 1,800 people as a dirt road linking the town to a road leading to the nation’s capital, Port-au-Prince, is rehabilitated.

The second project, costing a little less than $100,000, involves paving road in the city of Hinche, close to the border with the Dominican Republic and about 30 miles from Marmont.

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COMMENTS
181 comment(s)
Written by: gouletcolonial This user is banned, 30 Nov 2008 11:58 AM
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
missing some zeros or fuzzy math or real real cheap labour
Written by: dreadlocks, 30 Nov 2008 12:48 PM
From: United States
you noticed that too, GC. seems like 100 dollars for six months of work. talk about slave labor.
Written by: OndeVert This user is banned, 30 Nov 2008 4:19 PM
From: United States
Why do you think labor is so cheap in Haiti? Do they have the skills to do something higher? In addition, roads why not build freaking schools? To transport what? To improve emergency respond to accidents or to facilitate the transport of contrabands or drugs? Are there Haitian companies complaining of lack of infrastructure? Or this is to quench the sense of guilt that Port Pigs forgot about Cape Haitian, Hinche, Caobe, Malpasse, Anse Pistre, and Oanaminthe?
Written by: generoso, 30 Nov 2008 5:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
Ondevert
Complaining, complaining, complaining.
What are you doing to help the situation in Haiti other than complaining?
Or sending insults to persons you know nothing about?
Or receiving timely voo doo greetings from gro bacas?
We are trying to help Haiti get out of their predicament here, why don't you start by giving swimming lessons or small boat building. That would help!
Written by: DominicanChic, 30 Nov 2008 6:32 PM
From: United States, New York
Overseeing public works projects and putting people to work is still better than just throwing money at their corrupt government. Hope all goes well and they finally begin to realize that throwing people to DR is never going to get them anywhere.
Written by: etiennc, 30 Nov 2008 8:34 PM
From: United States
Ondevert(e) What keeps a country going is the easy transport of goods and you need roads,bridges.
A country is like the human body ,the roads are the veins and the arteries ,the bridges are the skeleton.
We also need more (m-o-r-e)good airports.
We have schools in Haiti , we have educated people in Haiti but we do not have too many peole with trades.
Unfortunately those who go to school and get a degree , they have learned so many useless profession s and they go into POLTICALLERIE The steal,blackmail in order to survive.

Pale move franse e pi mache vole ,mache bay kouba. fe komplot,bay koudeta.lonje la men devan nasyon zini

INFRASTRUCTURE MY BOY :ROADS ,BRIDGES, AIRPORTS, HEAVY EQUIPMENTS TO CULTIVATE THE SOIL THAT HAS BEEN DEPLETED of all its NECESSARY NUTRIENTS BECAUSE OF POLYCULTURE.
No insults please.No chest pumping no vain rethoric.

We are here to educate,reeducate.Make good use of our pragmatism.


Generoso ,we have a new student !
Good luck !!!
Written by: generoso, 30 Nov 2008 8:55 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
translate please for us that pa comprend
"Pale move franse e pi mache vole ,mache bay kouba. fe komplot,bay koudeta.lonje la men devan nasyon zini"

Written by: etiennc, 30 Nov 2008 10:31 PM
From: United States
Generoso,
I will gladly give you the equivalent in English
" Speaking broken French, stealing,blackmailing people,plotting coups,and begging in front of the offices of the United nations"
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 1 Dec 2008 3:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Can you people post your opinions in english or spanish please. Not everyone speaks that foreign patois, please keep the language within the civilized norm. Haiti needs all the help it gets.
Written by: haitian1804, 1 Dec 2008 4:02 PM
From: Haiti
Hello guys...welcome to the new ones, things are not easy here. So be ready !!! I think this project may help the country a lot first by getting them busy a good way so less time to think about leaving the country illegaly. And i m going to bring some light also about the 2 500 persons that is going to work for 6 months I think it's a contract of 1 month by team, 2 500 / 6..understand??? "please keep the language within the civilized norm" from arkatype. You're uneducated and the fact that you don t understand a language is not an excuse to use this form of talk, you better watch yourself boy. Generoso swimming will also help dominicans so that they will have choice between cannibalism and get wet. what it s wrong with ondevert etiennc... i think you ve learn enough from me now to corrrect this little r*****t if he is getting on your nerves....much respect....
Written by: DominicanChic, 1 Dec 2008 10:43 PM
From: United States, New York
Not understanding another language does not classify anyone as uneducated. This site is in english and this is Dominican Today - DR's language is Spanish. So I second arkatype's request to keep comments in either english or spanish.
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 12:36 AM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"
Written by: DominicanChic, 1 Dec 2008 10:43 PM
From: United States
Not understanding another language does not classify anyone as uneducated. This site is in english and this is Dominican Today - DR's language is Spanish. So I second arkatype's request to keep comments in either english or spanish.
"
I totally disagree, what will happen to my freedom of expression, how are you going to monitor this ?, are you going to hire a language police ?, do not fall into that ridiculous trap, Arkatype and Ondevert should never be taken seriously these 2 imbeciles are worthless this is another veiled attempt to be little anything Haitian. I spoke all three languages fluently, if I want to bring my point across, I will use the right language otherwise I will write in French or Creole and be ignored.
Written by: etiennc, 2 Dec 2008 1:00 AM
From: United States
Thank you for wastimg my time , I did not learn anything new tonight,
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 1:17 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Haitian1804 you bettter change that date, nothing progressive happened after the massacres. From that year on, the only thing that you brought to the island were two things misery and poverty. Remember you're freedom came with a price tag. And more importantly haitians are still in bondage, worse your enslaving each other. So like i say, please don't embaress yourself. Remember this is Dominican Today. let me also remind you Español is the common language and english is equally as important, the information provided in this website is in english so respect the majority mr. haitian and others that feel the same way.
Written by: etiennc, 2 Dec 2008 12:15 PM
From: United States

If I remember well .the topic was "UN funds public works projects in Haiti"
How did we manage to talk about "2 imbeciles" in our comments.
I am not blaming anyone ( there is enough blame to pass around)
I wish you will start posting open ended comments that encourage smart responses.You do not invite any debate,dialogue or discussions with close ended comments like you have the monopoly of reason and truth.
Haiti and the Dominican Republic share the same island.It is like two wings of a bird,if one wing is broken the bird can not fly.
Dominicans can raise Haiti from its boot straps or Haiti will bring the Dominican Republic down.
This is the sad historic reality of these two countries.
Even when Trullijo after a night a heavy drinking ordered the massacre of some Haitians ,he was "told" to spare others
My point is are we going to make sense of this historical nonsence "the Haitian Dominican dilemma "
We should be more creative,let's look for solutions not dissolutions
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 12:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
I back you 100%. You have always been a source of reason and compromise.
Your "better half" anyway. LOL.
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 12:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Entienne the dominican state don't need to raise Haiti, Haiti needs to get it's act together. The traditional modus operandi in Haiti is based on corruption and incompetence. You're expression is the typical norm for a haitian poster you feel that everyone is to blame, for the miserable state that Haiti finds itself in. And others must suffer the consequences because haitians are hurting, well guess what i dont give a f**k about you or your country. Solve your problems in you're country or move to the Bahamas, oh i forgot they dont even want you there, and you all look alike!!!!! LOL.
Written by: dreadlocks, 2 Dec 2008 1:10 PM
From: United States
modus operandi is based on corruption and incompetence.....everyone else is to blame.....miserable state...hmmmmm .now where have i heard this before?
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 1:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
arkatype
This is were you are wrong. It is to the DR's interest to help the Haitians get their shit together as much as the Haitians. So they won't have to come here uninvited.
The DR benefits with good commerce from Haiti and Haitians are an important source of income
and could even be a better business partner if their economy would get better.
There is a lot of good Haitian investment in the DR, just go to any university and you will find many upper class Haitians going to school and buying property in DR.
Do not blind yourself to that fact because of your hate for Haitians or blacks.
I am a fervent patriot and loyal to the DR and would be the first one in the front line in case of an armed conflict with Haiti, but you can't blind yourself to the hard facts that are evident.
Haiti needs the DR and we need Haitian labor through controlled immigration. Period.
Written by: dreadlocks, 2 Dec 2008 1:20 PM
From: United States
it's the old bromide, generoso; a rising tide floats all boats. a booming haitian economy is an advantage to the DR. it is simple international economics. lower unemployment means lower rates of illegal immigration. haitians do not come here as tourists; they have seen tropical islands before. also, dominican products find a market with very uncomplicated logistics. (theoretically, at least).what could be better?
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 1:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
dread
a hot plate of jon jon with pork chuletas and sweet maduros, (a Dominican-Haitian dish) and a cold Presidente. LOL.
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 2:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Generoso are you serious! dont make me laugh!!!!! So what theirs haitians enlisted in universities in D.R. Arent plenty of dominican's enlisted in universities and colleges in the U.S. Your equation is senseless at best. Haitian illegal immigration equals a low paid work force, which effects the domestic work force. It also equals low purchasing power and more goverment spenditures in health care services like CarlosFranco explained on the forum section. It also represents more spending in all sectors like energy more water usage more housing issues, and environmental degradation which in Haiti is a major problem already. In the short term the problem is bad in the long term it will get worse unless they enforce the immigration laws to the tooth. CONTINUED.....
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 2:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
arkatype
Because of time limitations I did not enumerate all the Haitian investments in DR but they encompass homes and apartments, joint ventures in free zone enterprises, agricultural export businesses (flowers, and food staples), construction, hotels, tourism and many others.
I realize the stress in our already lacking medical facilities, housing, and I agree with you there, but I was pointing out the fact that it is to our benefit for Haiti to recover and prosper economically and stabilize politically, and that in turn will benefit us.
My good buddy has a finca that I sometimes visit and he is rabidly anti-Haitian, but as a matter of fact he employs over a dozen Haitians...and I asked him why he doesn't hire Dominicans if he dislikes Haitians so much and he replied because he can't get Dominicans to do the work the Haitians do, they are all in the town
playing dominoes and living off the money that is sent to them by their relatives abroad.
It's no bull just fact.
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 2:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti's economy is bankrupt is the least developed in the hemisphere! D.R. does not import anything from Haiti, Haiti's economy is informal. The trade in the border is more of a one way street, dominican products like food are sold in the border, and most of those products are given freely believe it or not, so no we don't benefit from haiti's economy like you've been led to believe. Haiti's economy link http://www.heritage.org/index/country.cfm?id=Haiti
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 2:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
arkatype
Precisely, that is exactly my point. This is why if you speak for example with Carlos Morales the Minister of Foreign Affairs and a true patriot he will explain to you that it is for our economic benefit
for Haiti's economy to rise and prosper. Haiti is an important importer of Dominican goods and I am not talking about miniscule border trade. I am talking container loads being shipped to Haiti in a daily basis,
check the government official export figures, the real ones are about 50% higher than reported.
The point is and I am all for to better control and supervision of Haitian immigration, that for Haiti to prosper and stabilize economically and politically will also benefit us and slow illegal immigration as well as a by product.
Do you think that any Haitian wants to be in DR better than in their own country? No they don't, they would much rather be home with their families and people that speak creole.
They come because they are hungry and desperate to work.
Written by: etiennc01, 2 Dec 2008 2:54 PM
From: United States
Arkatype,I do understand your frustation and your rage.
This is why we have people like me and Generoso to tell you that rage and frustration can cloud your best judgement.
I said before "although Trujillo was drunk when he ordered the massacre of SOME Haitians he was "TOLD" to spare some" .Here the word is "SOME"
Spare those working on some plantations
I am sorry that you have not taken any classes in ECONOMICS to understand the dynamics behind the Haitians migration to DR
This is not a game of hazard,this phenomenon is well orchestrated
Sometimes Haitians are welcome.Sometimes some of them are not welcome. Sometimes some of them need to returm home.Sometimes some them can stay for a while.In some places they can live as long they want
You are impotent in these decisions making , all you can do is getting irritated and insulting
If you were to become a politician and benefit from the behind the scene sweet deals, you will play the game.Money talks bull shit works
Written by: etiennc01, 2 Dec 2008 3:04 PM
From: United States
Atkatype,
I hope that your children will be able to be more objective and they will find a permanent solution to this problem.
Because, you are well set in your prejudices,fear, and your incapacity to be a game player.
People like you they becone fanatics the develop apersonality disorder, they become violent and one day I am afraid they will go on a rampage and start shooting at Haitians and Hatians look alike Dominicans.
They will even kill Dominican espouses of Haitians.
Calm down a bit,the dynamics of this phenomenon is beyond your grasp and understanding.
LET ME KNOW IF I CAN FUTHER HELP YOU to help control you rage
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 3:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Generoso you are missing the point, this immigration pattern is very negative to D.R. We are becoming haitianized. Ask yourself the question, why dont haitians built there country back, why do we have to deal with the massive poverty from Haiti that's not our responsibility. We are one country dealing with our own domestic problems. We dont have to conform to there way of existence, this is a dangerous precedent in the long term. The next thing we know we will have a haitian president then what you think will happen? look at Haiti that's your answer. We need a change in the goverment that will make immigration their main problem to solve, before we do anything to move forward as a country. Read this article from HOY http://www.hoy.com.do/negocios/20....haitianaEn-la-economia-dominicana
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 3:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc01
whta's with the 01 anyway are you the same guy?
Just a comment, do not discredit anyones opinion assuming that they did not take classes in economics. You are just inviting a harsh answer and rightfully so.
I had a partner once with a degree in economics and he was the dumbest bastard alive and he is dead broke now.
Written by: etiennc01, 2 Dec 2008 3:09 PM
From: United States
Haitian 1804 please not today.
We have a different agenda. You do not change people by insultig them.On the contrary , the become stubborn in their outdated and irrational convictions.
Arkatype .s comments are guided by fear and his(her) incapacity to participate in the decisions making of his(her) country.
Written by: etiennc01, 2 Dec 2008 3:14 PM
From: United States
Generoso I was a litlle bit iritated with Arkatype.
So I challenged him to understand the dynamics of this sad migration that noone really want .
Nothing happens by accident but by design
We must not fight over the symptoms of the problem but see if we can have any impact on the decisions that create the problem in the first place.
But I bet you when those who critize the problem can make a living in entertaining the problems they become supporters ans apologists
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 3:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
arkatype
I agree with you 100% but you are not hearing me or are blocking me out. We don't have to deal with Haiti's problem if we choose not to, but if we want a swift solution we must. Why? because Haiti's problems are our problems because of our porous border and the reliance in Haitian labor force.
There is no quick solution. If we deport all illegal Haitians back, do you realize what would happen to the construction industry? and agriculture?
And BTW we did have a Haitian president Ulises Hereaux (Lilis) son of a Haitian father from Senegal and a woman from St. Thomas. And we almost did have a direct Haitian descent president (Peña Gomez) who influenced Dominican politics in the major party the PRD.
Written by: dreadlocks, 2 Dec 2008 3:20 PM
From: United States
i am fully aware of the economic and social problems occasioned by illegal immigration. it is something which has to be curtailed in all countries. yet, i am a liitle purturbed by this angry chant on the part of some posters to summarily kick all haitians out. i am forced to wonder what the reaction would be if some Senator in the US congress attempted to push through a bill to "kick all Dominicans out" of the USA.
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 3:20 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"Written by: arkatype, 2 Dec 2008 2:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti's economy is bankrupt is the least developed in the hemisphere! D.R. does not import anything from Haiti that's viable to it's economy, Haiti's economy is informal. The trade in the border is more of a one way street, dominican products like food are sold in the border, and most of those products are given freely believe it or not, so no we don't benefit from haiti's economy like you've been led to believe. Haiti's economy link http://www.heritage.org/index/country.cfm?id=Haiti
"
Arkatype your ignorance bliss, do you understand your own link ?or understand the market economy Haiti is among the freest market in the world NOT to confuse with product are given free....
stop yourself hatred short of being a total clown.
Written by: etiennc01, 2 Dec 2008 3:20 PM
From: United States
Arkatype I challenge you to light a candle instead of cursing the darkness.
The pessimist says :The haitian migration is a problem
Th optimist says : No the Haitian migration is not a problem
The ralist says:How do we fix the problem
LET'S ALL BE REALIST HOW DO WE SOLVE THE PROBLEM without the insults,the F word,the curses ????????????????????//
Written by: etiennc01, 2 Dec 2008 3:21 PM
From: United States
Generoso lets talk to the people who encourage Haitians to migrate and getting rich in this process We know who they are
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 3:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Generoso and what positive thing did Ulisses Hereaux do! or Jean Pierre Boyer do, make people leave there land. It's crazy my mother dont even want to come and vIsit D.R. no more, because she hates the fact that theres too many haitians in the country. As a people we have to educate and mobilize people so they can work the lands and do the jobs that are being filled by illegal haitians. Or else we wont have a country to live in, and we will have to conform to there terrible standard in the "long term." We still have an opportunity to change the scheme of things, if goverment is actively participating to change the direction our country is going through. If not people are going to take matters in their own hands.
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 3:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
arkatype
True. so what do you suggest that the solution will be to BOTH Haiti and DR to live peacefully?
To start an ethnic cleansing war with Haiti? Most Dominicans are mixed breed so were are not
pure Aryan stock either.
We have to be more tolerant of the problem, but I agree that uncontrolled Haitian immigration has to be stopped.
I will will answer etiennc, yes I know who they are and I will give you a hint.....Do they have a uniform?
Written by: dreadlocks, 2 Dec 2008 3:36 PM
From: United States
arkatype, i am sure your mother would be quite unperturbed if some american national opined that he does not want to enter her neighborhood, because there are too many Dominicans there.
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 3:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
dread
touche!
I really have go but lets continue later, it is a fascinating topic and all you guys are brilliant!
except antonioj...of course.LOL (just kidding)
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 3:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Antonioj you need your college refund back, you dont understand what youre reading!
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 3:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Generoso the answer to the problem is massive deportations and sealing the border. If the agriculture sector needs the cheap labor then do it in a controlled matter, all other sectors do the same, but make sure that 70% of the labor force is dominican with a better pay scale then that of haitians, that will deter some illegal immigration. As for Haiti they need to change their way of governance, which is prone to violence and utter corruption at all levels. Nobody will invest in a country with political instability and a culture of violence and retrogressiveness and that's the truth.
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 4:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
arkatype
Well that's your point of view and it has to be studied I guess, it could very well be the solution.
But I really think it is too drastic and it will shock and shatter the economy if done hastily. That is why the US doesn't send all the illegal Mexicans back to Mexico, because who will work in the restaurants, construction, agri-business and the fast food joints?
But you make some valid points, let me do some research and I will get back to you and maybe open a forum topic.
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 4:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Generoso here's another source on the export and import reference regarding Haiti. This information is older then the information on the index link that i posted first but it gives you an idea, of what i've stated. http://www.elmasacre.com/?modulo=....&seccion=82&articulo=2914
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 5:07 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"
Arkatype
It's crazy my mother dont even want to come and vIsit D.R. no more, because she hates the fact that theres too many haitians in the country. As a people we have to educate and mobilize people so they can work the lands and do the jobs that are being filled by illegal haitians
"
May be you should and your mother ignorant arse move from the USA too, this over the top stupid, blatantly dishonest , immature and dumb that is very typical of Araktype the clown.
Written by: etiennc, 2 Dec 2008 5:22 PM
From: United States
He who thinks that after 200 years of intermating ,intermarrying that you can get up one day and expect every dark skin person you meet on the street no be able to say perejil, you are mistakien.
It is sad to hear inteligent people lacking all sense of humanity ,blinded by their nostalgy , fear , intolerance and prejudices spit the most absurd and outdated comments.

What disturbs me is the flattery of some who claim to be racist show and when the meet a black person in a position of power They roll over like dogs, they shove each other aside so they can kiss the person's a__
If Michelle Omaba were to visit the Dominican Republic you will see these so called racists pushing each other in order to serve her.
Racist weakness !
Which Haitian does't your mother like:the one that owns businesses and mansions,the rich one or the one that cuts sugar cane?
Specify!

Your mother lives in the Bronx and in Brooklyn and Haitian sacre her?
Won't your mother dream of meeting Obama
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 5:30 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Quote from I posted in feb 25 2008

Your understanding of macro and micro economic is limited, thus difficult for you to graps simple economic equations. Now, if you can figure out the five point below how do they relate to free trade, then you may understand why the eeuu prefer to deal with one island.

1. Market size 2. custom 2.duplication 3.expertise 4. cost 5. labor
Haiti is important economic market for DR

Excerpt from article Dominican today

In such a case, according to Homero Figueroa of Diario Libre, then Haiti would be the nation's second largest trading partner. The latest report issued by the Center for Exports and Investment (CEI-DR) shows that Dominican exports have passed the US$1.5 billion mark for the first time, a significant improvement http://www.dr1.com/trade/articles/262/1/Haiti...
cont1..
Written by: etiennc, 2 Dec 2008 5:32 PM
From: United States
Arkatype being a racist is one thing but beind delusional is aonother.
I know that you try to keep the debate going by posting ingorant comments.
This the narcistic aspect of all racist caharacter.
They enjoy inflicting pain to another person.
This post is my last about this subject , I trust that Generoso. Antonioj, Dreadlocks, Haitian1804 will just ignore you and let you suffocate in the misery of this hell that your intolerance, your prejudice ,your fear have created
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 5:38 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
cont2
FAI president Ignacio Méndez agreed, saying Dominican Republic had an obligation to sign an agreement with Haiti before any other nation due to the nature of their commerce.
"unquote
Mr Lautaro have eloquently predicted free market will come one day in his previous commentary in this forum, you fail to understand that economic advantages have outweight nationalistic ideology, look around DR Microsoft , AT&T, Mcdonald, Hilton, share holders care about the bottom line and have no affiliations. As it stand right now free trade will only benefit DR, H have a big trade deficit to DR advantage, 2009 is way too early.

Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 5:38 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
cont3
Excerpt from Trade theory and practice By Steven Suranovic

The higher price received for each country's comparative advantage good would lead each country to specialize in that good. To accomplish this, labor would have to move from the comparative disadvantaged industry into the comparative advantage industry. This means that one industry goes out of business in each country. However, because the model assumes full employment and costless mobility of labor, all of these workers are immediately gainfully employed in the other industry

From the site of international trade theory and policy
http://internationalecon.com/Trade/Tch40/T40-...
"Pablo Piantini, president of Anje, said each country would have to come to the NEGOTIATING table, DEFEND their products, and define appropriate PARAMETERS for the phasing out of tariffs. He added, “An agreement with [Haiti] would be BETTER than with the European Union, even with its additional 25 countries.”
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 6:23 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Au contraire Mr Etienne I do not believe Mr Arkatype is a racist, he suffer from low self esteem couple with a lack of education, and overwhelmed with hopelessness, identity confusion, and self-protective withdrawal.

Dominicans are among my best friends... so pandejo like arkatype may want to stop the clowning around, I will be first to admint, that I do have prejudices, however we should learn to control our impulses and be good citizen.
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 6:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Generoso read these articles if you wish. TRATADO DE COMERCIO CON ESTADOS UNIDOS Y LA CRISIS HAITIANA. http://www.usemb.gov.do/nprensa/20040319.htm
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 6:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
ECONOMIA HAITIANA: UN CASO PERDIDO. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/business/newsid_3523000/3523057.stm
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 6:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
ARRESTAN HAITIANOS EN LA FRONTERA CON CEDULAS DOMINICANAS. http://www.diariolibre.com/noticias_det.php?id=27693
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 7:05 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
http://dr1.com/trade/articles/262....-trading-partner-maybe/Page1.html

The Dominican Republic exports US$147 million in goods to Haiti, and this trade has grown by 18.8% in 2006. This makes Haiti the DR's third largest trading partner. However, these figures do not take into account the more informal trade that takes place across the border, a sum that many say at least duplicates the official figures. In such a case, according to Homero Figueroa of Diario Libre, then Haiti would be the nation's second largest trading partner. The latest report issued by the Center for Exports and Investment (CEI-DR) shows that Dominican exports have passed the US$1.5 billion mark for the first time, a significant improvement over 2006. According to the report, the main items shipped to Haiti were construction materials such as cement and re-bar, and foodstuffs such as eggs and flour. Another important item was corrugated cardboard boxes - US$4.21 million's worth.

Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 7:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Are you mentally handicap Antonioj, exports are only profiting dominican business interests. The question is Haiti "WHAT DOES HAITI EXPORT'S TO THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC" zero nada. The Dominican Republic's benefit from it's exports to Haiti is insignificant minimal.
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 7:28 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
El Mayimbe, a dominican posting in an Haitian forum that I do admire although I do not subscribe to all his point of view.
(for those that are interested, you can be harsh and still be respectful of others)

http://www.haitixchange.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/1331/

Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 7:45 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"Written by: arkatype, 2 Dec 2008 7:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Are you mentally handicap Antonioj, exports are only profiting dominican business interests. The question is Haiti "WHAT DOES HAITI EXPORT'S TO THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC" zero nada. The Dominican Republic's benefit from it's exports to Haiti is insignificant minimal.
"
Take your time to read, you have contradicted yourself so much that is not funny, may be Generoso can take you out of " cette maudite galère "
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 8:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I haven't contradicted my self, your claim is that Dominican Republic benefits from a so called trade with Haiti? their's no such thing. Haiti doesn't export anything to the Dominican Republic where Haiti can draw any wealth from. Instead D.R. exports products to Haiti, you are not gaining anything from that. Dominican businesses are profiting minimally from those exports. The question you can seem to answer is what does Haiti exports to the Dominican Republic?????
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 8:30 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
let me quote yourself arkatype

Written by: arkatype, 2 Dec 2008 2:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti's economy is bankrupt is the least developed in the hemisphere! D.R. does not import anything from Haiti that's viable to it's economy, Haiti's economy is informal. The trade in the border is more of a one way street, dominican products like food are sold in the border, and MOST OF THOSE PRODUCTS ARE GIVEN FREELY BELIEVE OR NOT, SO WE DON'T BENEFIT FROM HAITI ECONOMY like you've been led to believe. Haiti's economy link http://www.heritage.org/index/country.cfm?id=Haiti

THE MORE I READ, THE MORE YOU SOUND LIKE ONDE VERT
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 8:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I wonder why you Antonioj and other haitians dont talk about fixing Haiti. I wonder why????? You're hipocrisy and blaming others is your vice, to justify haiti's standing as a corrupt and extremely racist society.
Written by: antonioj, 2 Dec 2008 8:53 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"
Written by: arkatype, 2 Dec 2008 8:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I wonder why you Antonioj and other haitians dont talk about fixing Haiti. I wonder why????? You're hipocrisy and blaming others is your vice, to justify haiti's standing as a corrupt and extremely racist society.
"
Could be one little area I would agree with you Ark

1. Will start reducing the population is the most pressing to 5 millions
2. Vast reforestation project (food for work)
3. Iles a vache and latortue as a tourist destination (style lambadee)
4. Get rid of all these racist law in the constitution
5. Encourage settlement of foreigner or diaspora to increase the middle class

Written by: etiennc, 2 Dec 2008 9:48 PM
From: United States
People who blinded with hatred and racial prejudices,who are melancolic, depressed,delusional,paranoid, nostalgic,who should don a white robe and a white hood and invade the bateys in the cover of the night to attack and scare away Haitians are unfortunately sharing this medium "Dominican Today "with pragmatist,intelligent,objective persons such as Generoso,Lautaro,Etienne,Antonioj
At the end we are unable to introduce them to the civilized and new world
It seems these jurassic monstrosities with their underdevelopped and preprogramed brains are not even aware the soon two beautiful black children and a strong first black lady will live in the US White House.Soon a half black man with a funny name "Barack" will the most powerful man in the world.
Wake up! America with a story of brutal slavery and racial discrimintion have matured.
This is Dominican Today !Hear?
We should control this extermination reflex herited from Christopher Columbus.
" Save The Taino Indians "
Written by: generoso, 2 Dec 2008 10:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
we don't have the KKK here, what you describe are the priests that go to the bateys at night looking to convert the voo doo worshippers.LOL.
antonioj
And how do you intend to "reduce the population to 5 million" extermination camps?
BTW There is a project in the Haitian parliament by foreign investors that are into philanthropic causes to make Tortuga island a free zone with big hospitals and modern medical health centers and spas with tourist hotels, airport, shopping centers.
Awaiting approval, will you tell the legislators to get off their asses and do something good for their country for once without wanting something in return?
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 10:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Etiennnc said and i quote " Save The Taino Indians " Dont ever talk about the taino's you're people have been the worst stewards of the land you have inherited. Haiti is totally deforested, for you to claim "TAINO" contradicts everything that they stood for. In the veins of the dominican people still runs the blood of the taino people. I think your mistaking who were first in the island and who came second and who came third last. You need to read a book for real.
Written by: etiennc, 2 Dec 2008 10:29 PM
From: United States
The regular Domincans and Haitians go about their business and sharing what ever they have.Every once in a while tensions flare up between them and some unfortunate souls get killed. Every once in a while some unscrupulous politicians instigate a tension betweem them.
But when the dust settles down they resolve their conflicts and resign themselves to their fate.
The regular Dominican is very protective of the Haitians.If you happen to live in your narrow minded world we will not be able to observe this.
I will not surprised to see those who now are attacking Haitians once the Haitians leave .they will go after the poor Dominicans.
Because these paranoids need some groups to blame ,some groups to hate for their shortcomings and their miserable life.
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 2 Dec 2008 10:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Listen fool someone else with your empty rhetoric you're not gaining any symphaty from me or anyone with a conscious. Do something for your country and stop begging for things that don't belong to you, you're a pathetic human being like most of your fellow countrymen that think and act the same as you, dont you have no shame i guess not!!!!!
Written by: DominicanChic, 2 Dec 2008 11:58 PM
From: United States, New York
antonioj - my response many comments later: Your freedom of expression will not be endangered because the language here is limited to English and Spanish. My point is that you wouldn't send the New York Times an op-ed in Spanish unless Latin America were the subject and even then you would provide them with a translation. DT is an english site and DR's language is Spanish, so postings should be limited to those two languages. And in case you're wondering, no I would never go through the trouble of hiring a language police so there's no enforcement, just a suggestion.
Written by: DominicanChic, 3 Dec 2008 12:12 AM
From: United States, New York
Since posters are on the subject of Haitian immigration I would like to offer my analysis (I consider myself to have a PhD in deciphering political BS, and was one of the few people that never bought Bush's argument for the war in Iraq back in 2003 or the current $700 billion bailout, both of which have ended up being a fraud).

1) There is no "need" for Haitian immigrants in DR. Whoever makes this argument is talking nonsense. There is a DESIRE for Haitian immigrants in DR because of the previously stated reasons that they are cheaper labor and as immigrants put up with abuses from employers that no Dominican worker would put up with. The average worker in DR does not make enough money for people to be rejecting decent paying jobs left and right - but the problem is that there are no decent paying jobs, and part of the reason is the easy accessibility that employers have to illegal and cheap labor from the neighboring country.
Written by: DominicanChic, 3 Dec 2008 12:23 AM
From: United States, New York
cont'd
Eventually the job Haitian immigrants came to do ceases to exist (like many sugar plantations that are now closed) and what happens then?
There comes a point where immigration ceases to benefit the mainstream and eventually develops an economy of it's own, with people segregating themselves into their enclaves and continuing their ancestors traditions rather than assimilating. Anyone that lives in an ethnic neighborhood in NYC can attest to this phenomenon - it happens in all countries and Haitian immigrants in DR will not be the exception. The problem - DR 's elite, the ones that today are bringing them in will NEVER look out for them in the future, and many generations later the country will simply have an additional 20-25% poor black people stuck in ghettos at the bottom of the social ladder. We must ask ourselves if this is the future we want for the Dominican Republic..
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 12:29 AM
From: United States
Arkatype you got a load of your chest and then what ??
You will wake up the next day facing a world that you can not control.
Hatred caused by fear and paranoia can not be shed.
At least we will provide you with an audience that will read you and stay silent.
But ,that may also irritate you if I don t follow up
You let me know what works better for you.I know you are upset
Sleep well !
By the way I hold a master degree in Psychology.I am a social worker I work with socially challenged teenagers and their parents.
I provide them with tools and resources to control with the demons that are damaging their relationships.
i am not a good Samaritan I am a social scientist. I do not ask "what" "where" it happens. I ask Why and How it happens so we can fix it.
I also work as a " mediator " with couples who are contemplating dissolving their marriage.
I provide them with strategies,tactics to repair their relationship.
I work with "various" ethnic groups." I am an" EDUCATEUR"
Written by: DominicanChic, 3 Dec 2008 12:32 AM
From: United States, New York
cont'd

2) A lot of the work Haitian immigrants do at least in agriculture is easily replaceable with machines. Granted, the average agricultor doesn't have the capacity to mechanize but any big business that is interested in investing in the industry can buy machinery and lease it out as needed. I have no doubt it would be a profitable business.
Regarding construction and tourism, if when these industries were flourishing Dominicans would have been getting paid fair wages, most families would have some savings to get them through the current economic crisis. Instead what has been dominating the headlines - yolas disappearing in the Mona Passage and between Florida. Regardless of one's opinion of Haitian immigration we must admit that this trend cannot continue. If Dominican land is being used for tourism, Dominicans should reap the benefits from that industry.
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 12:39 AM
From: United States
"Various ethnic groups"
I also work with members of the elite of many carribean countries who happen to leave their contries to settele in Florida.
I am fluent in French,Spanish,English and Haitian Creole.
That makes a citizen of the world.
My mother is Dominican and my father Haitian. Now you have sensed the reason I chose to work with you and help you shed your fear of the future.
You will be ok , You will be Ok
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 12:41 AM
From: United States
Dominican chic I do agree with you.but why don't your politicians hear and share your concerns.
Is there a dyanmic to this immigration phenomenon that you are not aware of ?
Written by: DominicanChic, 3 Dec 2008 12:44 AM
From: United States, New York
Lastly, I do not believe in anti-haitianismo, but there is a serious problem with the mentality of many pro-Haitian individuals and organizations. They always talk about unity and human rights, but never talk about the source of the problem which is poverty in Haiti. If we were discussing Dominican immigration to the US for example, it would be ludicrous for us not to address poverty, corruption, and income inequality in DR. A problem cannot be fixed until the fact that it exists is accepted. The problems that Haitian immigrants face in DR or any part of the world for that matter will never be solved until Haitians do a profound self-evaluation.
Written by: DominicanChic, 3 Dec 2008 12:50 AM
From: United States, New York
Politicians do hear and share my concerns but illegal immigration is big business and there are undoubtedly those that benefit from it. Unfortunately we Dominicans suffer from not even attempting to resolve a problem until it gets out of control, which means that there won't be any immigration control or border closure until Haitians in DR do the equivalent of the "million man march" to the Palacio Nacional.
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 1:23 AM
From: United States
Dominicanchic, you know what really concerns me is the violence that some posters are preaching.I can understand their frustration , their rage with the Haitian migration problem but those who are really affected by it do not display type of vicious attack we have read lately in this forum.
Two people who have been intermating and intermarying for years have strong bonds that may not be aparent for one who is barricading himself or herself in his or her elite enclave.
Which Haitian we really want to get rid of ?
Those who cut sugar cane
Those who belong to the Haitian elite and choose to have a second home in the Dominican rapublic
Those who have been living for years and have infiltrated all the corridors of the Dominican Life:They are doctors,policemen,soldiers.lawyers ect
The sons, daughters,and espouses of Haitians or Dominicans
Some people blinded by their fear,caprice massage the
idea that we have to resort to machete and the word "perejil" is not feasible now.
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 3 Dec 2008 1:58 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Etiennc just because your mother married a haitian it dont mean, that the whole country somehow is mixed with haitians. You are truly delusional in you're exaggerated view, i could tell that not one single person in my family is marrried to a haitian. Also i have relatives that work in different professions and are wealthy in Dominican Republic and they have no interaction with any so called rich haitians? The problem with haitian immigration has to do with demographics, linguistic and cultural differences, and overwhelming poverty coming from Haiti. If you add more poverty to a country that has also many people impoverished, you are creating a time bomb that will soon explode. Instead of encouraging migration to another country, the goverment? in Haiti should try to find solutions to uplift themselves from the gutter they find themselves in. Like DominicanChic said the future for haitians in D.R. is marginalization and everlasting discrimination. Continued.....
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 3 Dec 2008 2:05 AM
From: Dominican Republic
So you're people are better off trying to build up Haiti's economy. Also as a nation the politics of corruption and blatant racism from the very small mulatto elite, against the majority black population must cease to exist in Haiti for things to really move forward.
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 2:30 AM
From: United States
Arkatype you have defined a problem that may have existed long before you and I were even born.
Because of my mixed background and because I have chosen to make The Dominican Republic my second home and because a woman I love more that everything happens to an AUTHENTIC Dominican and because I have relatives who are bith Haitians and Dominicans I am called to mediate. I live with regular Dominicans and Haitians who have already resolved their conflict.
I do understand your passion but sometimes your hash rethoric is scary.
I am called to do what no one has ever done stop this vortex and deciding which Haitian should stay and which Haitian should go.
Are there any forces that have already decided which Haitian is wanted which one is not.
You and I may be powerless to decide?
Like I keep revisiting our history:although Trujillo was drunk HE KNEW WHICH HAITIANs WERE NEEDED and not to be harmed and which Haitians shoud be exterminated.That was an order that he had recieved.
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 3 Dec 2008 2:43 AM
From: Dominican Republic
"HE KNEW WHICH HAITIANs WERE NEEDED and not be harmed and which haitians should be exterminated." What the hell are you talking about? any haitian on sight, on dominican soil will get a bullet on his head. As long as they could not pronounce correctly the word "PEREJIL." That's why they called it the parsley massacres.
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 6:43 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
DominicanChic
Brilliant, just brilliant! Congratulations, I will quote your deep prophetic vision.
Arkatype
Your concerns are just, but your deliverance is too drastic and crude. You must learn to deliver your point with kid gloves and not be so acid. That way you will not be so misunderstood, as you make some solid and very valid points.
etiennc
As a mixed Dominican-Haitian with an obviously developed culture and education, stop in your projection quest and psychological analysis on people and stick to arguing the ideas not the persons or their motives.
I have one additional comment to DominicanChic
No country needs foreign immigration but it enriches them if done selectively. The US has benefited from the creme de la creme foreign immigration in their "melting pot" of a country.
You want to get a US residency, get a hold of a million dollars and apply as a businessmen and you will see how quick it happens. Are you an MD or a IT scientist? The same.
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 6:57 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
So good controlled immigration is not bad for the countries.
Desperate and illegal immigration like the Haitians invading the DR to come and beg here and use our already stressed hospitals and public clinics to give birth is harmful to the economy and provokes resentment and hate.
Haitians that enter illegally and come to rob and steal cattle from our farmers and bring contraband illegal goods such as drugs and weapons are not welcomed either.
Groups of Haitian scavengers that come with equipment with the sole purpose of cutting trees to make charcoal to import and sell both in DR and Haiti should be fined and deported.
Agricultural mechanization can not be adopted with simplistic ideas and quick fixes, most farmers do not have the means and capital to invest and Cuba tried it for sugar cane cutting and it was a disaster and it ruined the sugar cane crop.
DominicanChic reasoning gives food for thought and contributes to the debate in a positive way.
Let's keep it up.
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 7:10 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
For all of you I will reproduce el mayimbe's comments:
Will Haiti EVER have the testicular fortitude to help its people. Haitians continue to discriminate against the poor, abuse the poor, mistreat the poor, and EXPORT the poor to the U.S., Canada, the Carribbean islands, and ESPECIALLY the neighboring Dominican Republic. Haiti, instead of trying to find a solution for the poor by providing JOBS, social programs, and education, has instead turned the blind eye to the overwhelmingly POOR majority of its citizens. It's sad, frustrating, and sickening that Haitians could be so cruel to one another. Haitian authorities prefer for there people to die, starve, and leave rather than help them live a productive and healthy life. They are not held accountable for their actions and want the world to solve there problems by taking in there MAJORITY poor and unskilled citizens.

Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 7:11 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
Con't
To the hated Dominican Republic is were most Haitians illegally migrate to look for better copportunities. Yes, the DR is richer, fertile, and more stable than Haiti but it's not a first world country. It's a country in a development phase. A country that is starting to provide opportunities for its citizens, a country with a vision for the future, a country that is progressing, and modernizing at a great rate. A poor country that is fighting for its people and its future. DR and Haiti are night and day, in terms of living standards, opportunities, etc. I'm not painting DR as a utopian society or as a first world nation but compare to Haiti it sure is developed, stable, and rich.

With the terrible conditions in Haiti that includes a UN occupation, high corruption, low employment, starvation, desertification, a powerless dispora, discrimination for the poor, outdated and over-protective laws that limit foreign investments, I ask, What is Haiti doing to fix itself?
Written by: Lautaro, 3 Dec 2008 7:12 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
It bothers me a lot the fact that nobody has touched Haiti's first and foremost problem, that is, the urgent need that the country have of getting its food security back. As some of you may well know, on the past century up to the 1980's, Haiti was self-reliant on the production of rice and beans, until the blasted gringos got into their heads the idea of dismantling the tariffs protecting haitian agriculture, that was the moment when Haiti became, as Antonioj have put it, "the freest economy in the world", that is, an economy that would be utterly unprotected against international competition, and this would come in the form of rice imported from the US, which is so absurdidly costly that it's almost a luxury for the common haitian citizen. In my point of view, the only way in which Haiti could be put back on its two feet would be to slam the door into the faces of the US and european agrarian lobbies, which are among the culprits of the present drama in the first place.
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 7:12 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
Con't
Once you are committed to pick your COUNTRY up, people will work with you to develop, modernize, beautify, and rise Haiti to promenience. It starts with you Haitians. You have the ability to improve your country. It starts with you and ONLY you, HAITIANS.
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 7:29 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
lautaro
I agree that Haiti needs to get their "food security back" but by playing the blame game and looking outside for excuses makes Haitians irresponsible for their present predicament, puts them in the old path of blaming everybody else for their mishaps.
Haiti needs money, donations and investments, not "slamming the door" to potentially donor countries that could lift Haiti out of their predicament. Also Haiti needs to stop exporting their poor and dispatching them to other countries, mainly the DR.
In a country that has been devastated by their own leaders and politicians, most recently the worst 10 years of the populist and mega corrupt Kingdom of Aristide, Haitian intellectuals and elite have to bypass their fervent nationalism and look inward instead of outwards to start a process that will
bring closure and wealth to their country.
Also hate, blaming others and dispensing curses like what you see here as a sample just brings Haitians more of the same, its called karma.
Written by: Lautaro, 3 Dec 2008 7:34 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
The question is: How to get that food security back while the countries dominating the food market (the US, EU and Japan), continue in their refusal to level down their protective tariffs while asking undeveloped countries like ours to do the thing that they stubbornly refuse to do?
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 7:45 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
lautaro
Here you go again playing the blame game.
Here are some ideas.
Have agricultural investment cooperatives with an ATTRACTIVE AND GUARANTEED rate of interest return and establish joint ventures in government lands backed by the Haiti central bank for the Haitian diaspora and foreign investors to come in in a secured environment where their investment will be guarded and protected against loss or confiscation.
But for his you can not have 0 security and a rate of graft and corruption with public officials of 70% like in Haiti or 40% like in DR and expect foreign capital to come in to swim in a shark infested pool.
Most countries protect and subsidize their agricultural production as a national security measure more so for such an important and traditional food staple like rice.
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 7:59 AM
From: United States
All I can say before withdrawing my participating in this dabate is to suggest that the leaders of both countries ought taking note of the bitterness and resentement toward Haitians that are being manifested here in this forum.
It is also clear how this resentement may be mechanically interpreted as Arkatype has clearly and strongly suggested"Any Haitian on sight...a bullet in the head"
If historical determinism is true:When the same problems arise.the same people are in power,the same methods are utilized to solve the problems "
Collateral damages ? What collateral damages?
I will be posting comments when a different topic is being presented to me.
I am a citizen of the world and I have outgrown certain negative passions .i have also became less chemerical.
When we change the way we see a problem , the problem changes
When we change the way we see a person , the person changes
Bye everyone ! Generoso see you in another debate where you could challenge , test my ideas.
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 8:12 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
Withdrawing from the debate just shows that you have taken this personally and have been offended
by the comments.
Arkatype meant by the comment "any Haitian on sight a bullet in the head" was that was the order during the 1937 massacre given by Trujillo, not his personal thoughts or beliefs.
do not misunderstand him.
Do not run away now because you feel uncomfortable, but stay and participate, your input and
feedback is an important contribution.
Written by: Lautaro, 3 Dec 2008 8:59 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
For the moment let's cross our fingers and pray for this project to be successful. If it does, then it'll be an indication that the IOM should be the organization to which the reconstruction funds should be directed, even though I don't see how this would escape the monopolizing attention of the haitian gov., specially considering its legendary hunger for funds. The most common problem in both states is that the government is a leviathan always attempting to micromanage even the most insignificant details of the lives of its citizens.
Written by: haitian1804, 3 Dec 2008 3:35 PM
From: Haiti
at first I wanted to ignore arkatype, it s not all the dogs' bark that needs attention. I always "fight poverty not the people in poverty" . Arkatype who's claiming a racist forget that Haitian is not a race, and forget also that there s many illegal dominicans on the haitian soil that we let do their nasty things freely here. this is what happened when they give to any one the right to speak, who s to blame? what are Dominicans to think they have the rights to talk this way about Haitians?did you forget evrything?....very hilarious.maybe i m going to invite spome haitian friends to this website. for real it's so funny,.that a Dominican woman don t wanna go back to her country because of to many haitians....lol. come on guys bring this little boy down for me and make him remember he s nothing than a "blanc mannan" , and if he keeps posting trash i ll make him my main focus, and he ll be so sorry..
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 3:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
haitian1804
go back to your voo doo dolls macacke.
We don't want you here, you can't spell you moron.
AYIBOBO!
Written by: haitian1804, 3 Dec 2008 3:54 PM
From: Haiti
and of the Bob marley concerts at Zimbabwe he said" I read in the Bible that God created human imitating his own image, but there s nowhere in the Bible that says that God is White,Black,Asian,Indian, Sparniard...(Haitian or Dominicans). so whenever I see one of you i see the image of God, no matter your nationality, race, color or social rank. 200 years ago Haiti raise agianst the ones who beleived that we are not all equals and treated the black race as mule 50 years ago the afro-american raise against the segregation in the US. a month ago Barack OBAMA is the president of the USA, becomes the most powerful human on earth. but you know what is never change is that there some human that will always thinks like the cave men. arkatype is still behind of the 4000 years of the human race evolution, what a pity. I realy don t have time to waste with him..the word racist didn't even suppose to be in the dictionnary no more.
Written by: haitian1804, 3 Dec 2008 4:01 PM
From: Haiti
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 3:38 PM
From: United States
haitian1804
go back to your voo doo dolls macacke.
We don't want you here, you can't spell you moron.
AYIBOBO!
"it s stronger than you Generoso...can t you see that even you is screaming "AYIBOBO"...hilarious."
Written by: haitian1804, 3 Dec 2008 4:13 PM
From: Haiti
Written by: haitian1804, 22 Nov 2008 11:19 AM
From: Haiti
"Fight Poverty not People in poverty" this s what most of you should know, the one who is dreaming of being a General...General of s***t, Genoroso(homeless), specially. anytime you failed of doing it right ,God put a guy name; Haitian1804, to kick your ass and teach you good manners, and teach you that it s always about the man that stand next to you....
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 7:04 PM
From: United States
Hola
El papi chulo quiere decir algo
La Republica Dominicana es ese raro y colorado tapiz de influecias :Haitiana Espanola,Francesa,Africana,India tejido por una rica historia.
Las interacionioes de tanta culturas diferentes de ese paraiso cocmopolita te deslumbraran "
El entremezclar de esas diferentes groupos etnicos ha creado a las mujeres mas hermosas del mundo.
Gracias a Dios que yo me he conseguido UNA de esas mujeres
Make love not war Life is too short

I love COMIDA CRIOLLA , it is a delicious melding of Spanish,imported African slaves,and indigenous Taino cuisines such as :
Sancocho
Modongo
Bandera
Asopao de Pollo con aguacate
Arroz con Grandules y chivo criollo
OH MAMA MIA
I am saliving !

Written by: dreadlocks, 3 Dec 2008 7:06 PM
From: United States
100 posts already. do i hear 200? going once. going twice.......
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 7:10 PM
From: United States
Save the Sancocho
Save the Brugal ( Brutal)
Save the Presidente

Save mis Morenas ,mi Negras ,and mis Mulatas

E"palante vamonos !
Generoso did I spell it right ????
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 7:12 PM
From: United States
Dread, all aboard ,e'palante vamonos -Our goal 200 posts !
Written by: antonioj, 3 Dec 2008 7:34 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 6:43 AM
From: United States
DominicanChic
Brilliant, just brilliant! Congratulations, I will quote your deep prophetic vision.
Arkatype
Your concerns are just, but your deliverance is too drastic and crude. You must learn to deliver your point with kid gloves and not be so acid. That way you will not be so misunderstood, as you make some solid and very valid points.
"
No doubt I concur, Dominican chic very good argument here.
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 8:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
you sure did mon ami, BTW 1804 is back with the usual spitting venom in his syphilitic brain imaging
in is deficient mind that he has some kind of power.
BTW what are you drinking tonight? Sound real happy LOL.
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 8:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
haitian1804
you half wit shoeless fabricator of foul odors and stenches.
I will teach you and your kind a lesson, just wait until tomorrow......
The white light will come down on you voo doo worshippers with great force.
Just wait and see...you WILL believe.
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 8:37 PM
From: United States
Dominicanchic,I read your posts,your grammar.your syntax,your delivery so chic,so perfect.
I admire your intellect, You articulate your arguments so clearly and so strongly.You have tested and challenged my stronger ideas and you have persuaded me.

My only concern is : CHIC has a bad connotation, I know you mean sophisticated ,elegant but I am still uneasy with the word.It is too close to "CHICA"
FYI Jupiter and Mars were very close this Monday,It is a rare event
Generoso que te pasa, Cat got your tongue?
Or you have misplaced your bottle of MAMAJUANA ?
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 8:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
Trash must go in the garbage.
Written by: generoso, 3 Dec 2008 8:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
you drank the whole bottle there is nothing left!
Written by: etiennc, 3 Dec 2008 9:22 PM
From: United States
Arkatype,last Monday a rare event occured in the sky:Mars and Jupiter got closer although they revolve in different orbits.
This event happens every December (around 365 days) during Christmas( By the way are a Christian? I was raised in the catholic church,Want to see pictures of my first Holy Communion?
Well send me your e-mail.
You see I am this man that you do not want to shake his hand and sit down with him and eat a hot Sancocho or an Arroz con habiyuela negro y chivo a la criolla,
I want to sit in front of your house and share a few shots of Brugal (I call it Brutal) listening to merengue tipico and Omega( Duro)Smile!
Now since you have accepted the Bachata( it is no longer the music of poor people) we could listen to Anthony Santos y Aventura.
What about the music "Gaga "??
I almost forget los reyes de los menrenguitos Johnny Ventura y Sergio Vargas.
Arkatype, I am nice to you, Please no chest pumping,no vain rethoric,no muscles flexing, no Insults.
Amistad
Written by: haitian1804, 4 Dec 2008 2:21 PM
From: Haiti
I was trying to being nice for a while and close my eyes to all the vain comments you r posting. some of you are so much full of hate you don't even talk about the subject that's going to help both of us,with more jobs here,less hardworker Haitian won t leave our home country to go work in DR.One last thing that i want y all to think about is that a good percentage of Haitians at DR is working with dignity and courage.But I ve seen that all the Dominicans working here (except the Estrella guys)are doing what Haitian don t wanna po in spite of the misery,maybe if DR had a plan to their daughters my street wouldn't have too much hookers,the rate of HIV would have been lower here.and maybe Haitiians would have think differently of Dominicans.we Haitian maybe poor in money but we are rich in education,dignity,courage,history,kindess,intelligence,determination and good reputation we worked to make this world better and all the countries know that( except some ignorant),what is priceless...
Written by: haitian1804, 4 Dec 2008 2:40 PM
From: Haiti
Written by: generoso, 29 Nov 2008 10:08 AM
From: United States
We have been invaded for long by a species of aliens similar to a locust plague that cuts and burns all the trees, poisons the environment with deadly CO2 gases making illegal charcoal, pollutes the scenery
by throwing garbage with no sense of hygiene, crowds our already lacking hospital facilities, hounds
automobile drivers at corners and intersections, and on top of all that is spiteful and full of anger and
is not grateful for the compassion he is shown and bites the hand that feeds them.
Those aliens invading us are called: ILLEGAL HAITIANS.""""
I always knew you was an ignorant Genoroso and it s not even your fault it's your badluck for having the Dominican blood running on your vein, what a pity. You can hate us as much as you want but you ll never be able to change the 22 years of occupation. we help you build your country. But maybe now the next generation will be tired of your hypocrit handshake.
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 2:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
haitian1804
How was the sugar cane field today, merde?
Always talking about Haitian ancient history and blaming others for your failed country.
Stay out of the sun mackake its toasting the few brain cells you have left saloprie.
Merci to you for resurrecting my post, it is still current fact, kaka.
You have a miserable remaining rest of your sad day. Unguet!
PS I noticed that todays comments have less typos than usual, and less swearing, what a shame,
what happened you got your daughter to write and correct your spelling for you? You locust plague you.
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 3:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
haitian1804 or boss?
You finally made me laugh today, congratulations! LOL LOL LOL. Good, good.
Glad the sugar cane field was OK, we Dominicans aim to please you Haitian sugar cane cutters.
Next time bring a bigger hat to keep the sun away.
Written by: haitian1804, 4 Dec 2008 3:56 PM
From: Haiti
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/domrep.htm , and this..what now ?less big mouth?
Written by: haitian1804, 4 Dec 2008 4:30 PM
From: Haiti
http://www.prevalhaiti.com/messages.php/8655 ,is that the so wealthy country you guys are making show off for....what a pity.
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 5:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
hatian1804 boss,
So what that our gorgeous and sexy disadvantaged women want to supplement their income and incur in the oldest profession in the world to support themselves and their families?
Are you then jealous because Haitian versus Dominican women are not in high demand as prostitutes because of the
obvious discrimination against blacks and the AIDS fear for a disease that's rampant in Haiti?
Who gives you the right to take the moral high ground in your posture of always making the futile and weak effort of being superior to Dominicans? That is racism my macacke noir!
And your videos about poverty what do they prove? The status of your Haitians that come here?
You should not make an issue and make fun off, people's poverty in any country, not in my country not in yours, not anywhere. Poverty is no matter to make fun off others. You should be ashamed of yourself for bragging about Dominican poverty, but again you have no shame.
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 5:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
ok?
Written by: etiennc, 4 Dec 2008 5:19 PM
From: United States
I feel dirty and I do need to take a shower now
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 5:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
sa va?
your friend my "boss" is talking his usual kaka and making a fool of himself for the delight of all the other readers that laugh at his stupidity. He is like the class clown, but he has no class.LOL.
I need to take a shower too, it stinks in here.
Written by: antonioj, 4 Dec 2008 5:54 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
etienn, do not forget the neg bossale et macacke sale, do I need to take a shower too ? jajaja
Written by: gouletcolonial This user is banned, 4 Dec 2008 6:05 PM
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
tonyj getting frosty up there in TO got your shovel all ready for the big one .....invigorating is it not....only six more months till spring
Written by: etiennc, 4 Dec 2008 6:44 PM
From: United States
Generoso, I suffer from insults fatigue. My shrink Rxed me Prozac
Hey ,what is the equivalent in English for the phrase "SABOR A MI"
Read the song:
Tanto tiempo disfrutamos de este amor
nuestras almas se acercaron tanto asi
que no guardo tu sabor
pero tu llevas tambien
SABOR A MI
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 7:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
antonioj
Ki neg bosale se sá?
etiennc
I like that song too, its and old one.
I don't take pills, I just take Absolut vodka for my pains, insults I don't take seriously. Only weak
persons resort to them out of fear and desperation.
The denominatives in creole that I sent 1804 are not really insults, they are descriptions.LOL.
Written by: etiennc, 4 Dec 2008 7:10 PM
From: United States
Generoso,the girl friend of Preval, Elizabeth Debrosse Delatour bought a vacation house in Florida ( Village of Coral Gables )for $ 900.000
Aristide's minister of finance bought a house in Atlanta for 4 milion dollars
The question was: what caused Haitians to illegaly immigrate to other countries ?
The answer is : Los Ladrones
The other question was :if you care so much about your country men why don 't you stand up and fight the ladrones that are depleting the public treasury
The answer is : Instinct of survival,besides I am a patriot not a nationalist ,I care about the land but not about the people who inhabit it , I am also coward ,It is safer to post rubbish on Dominican Today than risking my life attacking the ladrones in my country, I may wake up one with my cut penis in my mouth.
In Psychology we call this behavior " Displaced Aggression"
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 7:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
Se vre oui.
"I may wake up one with my cut penis in my mouth". LOL I can't stop laughing from that one.LOL.
I met once Monsieur Prosper in Miami who was the ex-chief of police of Haiti and was told by eyewitness that his collection of Renaissance art was one of the most important in the world!
That's all paid for by the poor Haitians, can you believe that?
What about Michelle who took all of Baby Doc's money? That's another one. I remember that she told Baby Doc once. "If you don't have the pants to do what you have to, I will lend you mine for you to put them on!" Ko Mamao!
Anyway je tien ki partir, mois petit femme ale avec le mamao li, yo voy a bailar esta noche!
Written by: dreadlocks, 4 Dec 2008 7:26 PM
From: United States
DominicanChic, i am glad you said it; if dominican land is used for tourism, dominicans must reap the benefits also. i seem to have inspired the wrath of certain posters on this board, not the least of which is a cretin who goes by the nom de guerre TFISKE, by advocating that position. i admire the sanity and clarity of your positions, as outlined above. the enclave mentality, and reality, is always a feature of immigrant life in a new country. there will always be ghettoes, because that is where newcomers derive their support systems, and comforts of home, if you can call it that. the danger, as you put it correctly, is massive unemployment in ghetto populations, because it spawns unmanageable crime. it is difficult for law enforcement to develop intelligence on criminals when the community has a seige mentality, and there is a severe language barrier.
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 7:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
dread
128 postings and going strong! You said 200 postings, that would be a new record I speculate!
Written by: dreadlocks, 4 Dec 2008 7:50 PM
From: United States
we are on a roll, brother. you want 200 posts, put the word "Haiti" in the header.
Written by: etiennc, 4 Dec 2008 10:33 PM
From: United States
There I go again,in the Christmas' spirit doing my usual excercise in futility.
This forum should have been used to reach common ground for common good ,but instead it is used to harden and radicalize extreme positions.
It is sad to see articulate and intelligent people retreating in the small enclaves to only stick out their necks every once in a while to demoize and terrorize someone.


I think therefore I am.I am seems to suggest that I can control my natural impulses that is to exterminate the competitors when the food supply gets scarce.
But in severe food shortage people can not afford the luxury to think,to intellectualize.
to live togheter and share,
What is it to share!!!!
That's my food(country),mine not yours
This is not about hate or about racism or bigotry,it is about food supply.
People migrate to a locality where food is abundant but when the food becomes scarce you need to return to you original locality,migrate to a new locality or be exterminated.
con't
Written by: etiennc, 4 Dec 2008 10:41 PM
From: United States
I hear a commotion on the street ,get out to inquire.
A man complains that his friend asks him to leave his house because there is not enough food to share.
The man yells curses at his friend calling him all kind of nasty names.
I suggest to this man :Why don 't you go home,just go home
The friend points a gun at him and asks him again to leave his house.
I beg the man :he will shoot you if you do leave his house,he does not have enough food to share with you..
What part of " I do not enough food to share with you" that you do not understand ?
Haitian1804 DO YOU UNDERSTAND ? stop being stubborn !
Written by: DominicanChic, 4 Dec 2008 10:51 PM
From: United States, New York
Thanks for all the compliments guys :-)
I must admit following your posts just kills me but sometimes I do feel compelled to get back to the subject at hand. To all the pro-Haitian posters, there is no hate, all we ask is that you stop playing the blame game with DR and help your own people.
And my dear etiennc, yes you somehow do seem to be delusional: "La Republica Dominicana es ese raro y colorado tapiz de influecias :Haitiana Espanola,Francesa,Africana,India tejido por una rica historia."
Perhaps you would like to elaborate as to what influence we have from Haiti since neither I nor any Dominican I know, know of any (and I don't mean we all eat platanos, that applies to everyone in the Caribbean). Lastly, just a kind reminder that our ancestors were on that entire island HUNDREDS of years before the French started their slave empire and there even was such a thing as a Haitian. So if anything, Haiti might have Dominican influences not the other way around.
Written by: etiennc, 4 Dec 2008 11:13 PM
From: United States
DominicanCHIC ,this is the observation of many of my American friends who have visited the island on my reommendation.You know ,I am a product of a beautiful Dominican woman and a handome Haitian father.
I am a little bit of a idealist, No !How do you call me again ? oh I remember " Delusionnal"
What appears to be a pile of rocks to someone may appear to be a cathedral to someone else
Perspective,Vantage point,Predisposition.Visualization,Autosuggestion,Idealism.
When you change the way you see something it changes. TRY IT
Pst ! Just wishful thinking of a criollo.
Written by: etiennc, 4 Dec 2008 11:16 PM
From: United States
One plus one equals three (3) in synegism social.
When one culture absorbes another culture a third culture is born.
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 11:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
"I am a product of a beautiful Dominican woman and a handome Haitian father."
You are flattering yourself now etiennc you have to be more modest...please.
You got any more Brugal left? Or you drank it all?
What happen to the skunk 1804?
I think like a stray dog that has been beaten too many times he ran with his tail between his legs
howling, please no more, please no more!
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 11:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
DominicanChic
You can't be blinded to the fact that foreign occupations do leave their mark in a civilization even though the Haitians lasted 3 years short of a generation which is 25 years.
So undoubtedly there is an influence wether you want to admit it or not, also we have been exposed
through many years of cross marriages, immigration and commerce with Haiti. There is Haitian influence in our food, music, language. For example the name Dajabón comes from a particular fish that used to be caught in the Massacre river called Dajao and when tasted by the Haitians it was labeled "Dajao Bon" ( fish is good) and that's where the name comes from. Same with many Haitian or creole words in our Dominican Spanish like conbite, fukú, guan gua, papa boco and dozens of others.
Written by: DominicanChic, 4 Dec 2008 11:42 PM
From: United States, New York
etiennc, if that's the observation of some of your American friends, then you should probably have clarified to them that they were observing and interacting with Haitians or people who were at least part Haitian (rather than disguising them as Dominicans). Still waiting on the list of influences.
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 11:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
DominicanChic
Another example let's take merengue.
merengue to the Haitian mereng. Although they differ in important ways, the Dominican Republic and Haiti share many cultural characteristics. Like merengue in the Dominican Republic, mereng (in Haitiean Creole, méringue in French) is a national symbol in Haiti. according to Jean Fouchard, mereng evolved from the fusion of slave musics such as the chica and calenda with ballroom forms related to the French contredanse Mereng's name, he says, derives from the mouringue music of the Bara, a Bantu people of Madagascar. That few Malagasies came to the Americas renders this etymology dubious, but it is significant because it foregrounds what Fouchard, and most Haitians, consider the essentially African-derived nature of their music and national identity. Dominican merengue, Jean Fouchard suggests, developed directly from Haitian mereng.
Written by: DominicanChic, 4 Dec 2008 11:51 PM
From: United States, New York
Sorry generoso but I've never heard of any of those words,perhaps my family is too attached to its Hispanic roots. I read somewhere that Dajabon was one of those towns that retained their indigenous names like Cotui, Boya, and a few others in DR. Under normal circumstances an invasion that lasted 22 years does leave its influences and no doubt there were intermarriages. But when the invader tends to have an inferiority complex (think people like Trujillo) and there is a general rejection of the invading party (think of today's attitudes towards Haitian immigrants), the impact of these influences can be grossly overstated. Also, 25 years is really nothing in historical terms. How many of us know Dominican immigrants that have been in the US for 25-30 years and still don't speak english?
Written by: generoso, 4 Dec 2008 11:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
DominicanChic
Our famous Pulitzer prize winning author Junot Diaz uses those words in his book and goes to painstaking explanations and whole paragraphs on some words like : Fukú - Translation-curse of bad luck.
Written by: etiennc, 5 Dec 2008 12:05 AM
From: United States
DominicanCHIC ,I had used my words carefully " A TAPISTRY OF DIFFERENT INFLUENCES"
A mosaic.
I am not talking about "ADHESION OF THE INFLUENCES" I am talking about their COHESION. Their coexisence
I came, I saw, I understood.
If you place togheter different blocks of different materials to build a wall,even if you not use mortar to bond them , you just place them one on top of the other one you are going to have wall.
Might be a weak wall that can be broken with the push of a finger
Sorry to to use this methaphor, I hope it will help to clafy my point.
Generoso ,I have my brugal in a bottle with some rootsand leaves amaking a concoction for you know what I can't repeat (Dominican Chick is reading our posts ,need to be careful)
Written by: DominicanChic, 5 Dec 2008 12:05 AM
From: United States, New York
generoso, a few rebuttal points:
1) Every country considers its most popular music of the time to be a national symbol. Merengue was forced on Dominicans as a national symbol by Trujillo, and today is quickly being phased out by bachata and musica tipica (or perico ripiao). So this may be a similarity today but not a historical one that is guaranteed to last throughout generations.
2) You act as if DR had no direct African influence, many Dominicans (white and black) are familiar with African music.
3) Jean Fouchard needs to have a word with Joseito Mateo, since he said in an interview that he was one of the pioneers of taking merengue to Haiti and other parts of the Caribbean.
4) Jean Fouchard sounds very Frenchy to me, no doubt he's probably biased so pay careful attention to the source.
Lastly you seem to have contradicted yourself when you started out by saying "though they differ in important ways"
Written by: etiennc, 5 Dec 2008 12:10 AM
From: United States
Generoso please do not attract the attention of the prince of darkness.(He should remain nameles)
This is a quiet night tonight.
Written by: DominicanChic, 5 Dec 2008 12:13 AM
From: United States, New York
I'll check out Junot's book, but at a first glance this sounds to me like a bad translation of f*** you, like yeyo being a bad translation of "yellow" when refering to the yellow fever, or mangu being a bad translation of "man good" during the american occupation, and gringo being a bad translation of "green go"
Written by: etiennc, 5 Dec 2008 12:14 AM
From: United States
DominicanChic ,I am glad that the language and the music of the regular people is being accepted now.
It is marketable now just. Bachata has similar history with the Blues and Jazz
Written by: generoso, 5 Dec 2008 12:16 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
Joseito Mateo, the "king of merengue", concurs; he pointed out that racial amalgamation naturally produces syncretic music: "Dominican whites and blacks had their own musics, just as in the United States the blacks have their own music. But gradually, what is called a fusion of the two races came about, the blacks and the whites. And so, a música mestiza was formes, that is, a mixed music. The white contributes his part, and the black contributes his drums".
For most dominicans, then, to discuss merengue's origin is to discuss Dominican national and racial identity. Eurocentric thinkers emphasize merengue's European elements, Afrocentric scholars emhasize its African elements, and those who celebrate racial amalgamation point to its syncretic nature. Yet while they may disagree on the nature of Dominicanness, all come together on one point: merengue expresses Dominican identity.
Written by: generoso, 5 Dec 2008 12:21 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
some more;
Dominicans are often disinclined to admit African and Haitian influences on their culture. As ethnomusicologist Martha Davis points out, many Dominican scholars "have, at the least, ignored African influence in Santo Domingo. At the worst, they have bent over backwards to convince themselves and their readers of the one hundred percent Hispanic content of their culture. This is not an uncommon Latin American reaction to the inferiority complex produced by centuries of Spanish colonial domination". According to merengue innovator Luis Alberti, for example, merengue "has nothing to do with black or African rhythms. The Dominican proclivity to deny connections with Africa is related to anti-haitian sentiment, and relationships between the national musics of Haiti and the Dominican Republic have often been ignored or downplayed in Dominican merengue scholarship.

Written by: etiennc, 5 Dec 2008 12:23 AM
From: United States
Generoso The merengue was introduced to Haiti.It competed with the Contredans an extension of the Carabinier that the Jean Jacques Dessalines used to love to dance.
You pull the flap of your jacket ( the redingote) and you dance by jumping on one foot
Later A musician named Nemours Jean Batiste chose to play a slower version of Merengue and called the new music COMPAS DIRECT Compas from the Spanish Rythm
Now the new musicians have introduced elements of jazz blues,gospel into it.
They dance it like the Bachata . You hold the woman tight while movando la centura
Written by: generoso, 5 Dec 2008 12:27 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
DominicanChic
There is no contradiction to my statement, you have to read the whole paragraph:
"Although they differ in important ways, the Dominican Republic and Haiti share many cultural characteristics"
Anyway it was a pleasure, I am sorry that I have to go beddie bye. We shall continue later. Good night!


Written by: generoso, 5 Dec 2008 12:31 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
I am real tired, had a long day. Dominicans and Haitians should just have dance and music contests and exchanges like in the past and dance our troubles away. We are both fun loving, music loving nations. I believe we can heal and nurse our differences through music. Let's dance!
Written by: etiennc, 5 Dec 2008 1:00 AM
From: United States
Generoso when you get up today , we also need to concur on the participation of the chinese to the Dominican tapestry of mosaic if you prefer
DominicanChic ,you could have at least said Good night.You just left us hanging and expecting you rebuttals or your agreements.
Written by: dreadlocks, 5 Dec 2008 4:49 AM
From: United States
merengue innovator Luis Alberti opines that merengue has nothing to do with africa, or negritude, rhythmically. that is strange for me to hear. i find very little difference in the merengue beat and the calypso from the eastern caribbean. the eastern caribbean guys do not deny african influences, however.
Written by: DominicanChic, 5 Dec 2008 11:24 PM
From: United States, New York
sorry about that etiennc, I'm sure you slept well anyways. There are no more rebuttals since no one has been able to provide me with the laundry list of Haitian influences on our culture (and the few mentioned are up for discussion) - Nighty night!
Written by: etiennc, 6 Dec 2008 2:06 AM
From: United States
DominicanCHIC.
A word has a denotative definition and a connotative definition.
Denotative is the definition exact . historic ,etymologycal of the word.Denotative definition is what the word means to you according to your own experience, your own reference.
I had lived in Manhattan. Isn't Manhattan a mosaic of cultures ???
Dominican ,Haitian,African.African American.PortoRicans and the list goes on and on.
When I say tapistry of influences I had Manhattan in mind.
A tapistry seems to suggest the arrangement of different nuances and colors not related to each other.
Lat time I was in the Santiago I had to decide whetehr I wanted to eat Chinese food,go to Pizza HUT or go to a Dominican restaurant for my Sancocho.I settled down for Mac Donald
I guessed I was presented with a choice of different ethnic influences
I was in Puerto Plata and I attended a Jazz concert luego I dined at an Italian restaurant before heading to club to dance to my Bachata y my merengue(tipico)con't
Written by: etiennc, 6 Dec 2008 2:14 AM
From: United States
con't
Few days later I was invited to dine at a French Restaurant ( it is located on Route 5 as you are heading toward Imbert )
I had delighted my friend with my command of the French language while listening to French music. ( Right IN PUERTO PLATA)
Again I was exposed to a French influence.
I guess that I can chance your ideas but i can not change your convictions because they make you unique ,they make you who you are : DominicanChic.Taking away your conviction is like taking Chic out DominicanChic ( Dominican) and you become a different person.
You may feel confortable being a different person.
GOOD DAY and come back !
Written by: haitian1804, 6 Dec 2008 12:23 PM
From: Haiti
I m just so happy today that i m going to forgive Genoroso the dumb ass. I miss Lautaro on the Forum, he's an historian. did you guys know that the French Nation forced us to pay to recognize our freedom and with the money they build "the staute of Freedom" that they give as gift to the NYC. we had to pay for us and they were gongratulate the USA.Do you know that many DR nice ancient construction have been build under the Haitian occupation,and many cities in DR have been name by the Haitian gvt. do u guys know that the Haitian Army force will be back in mid of 2009 with budget of almost 1billion per year to help rebuild the country and protect the territory. even with all the strugle we suffered while 200 years, we stand still and the day is almost there for us to change direction. So proud of being an HAITIAN.
Written by: haitian1804, 6 Dec 2008 12:31 PM
From: Haiti
Written by: etiennc, 4 Dec 2008 10:41 PM
From: United States
I hear a commotion on the street ,get out to inquire.
A man complains that his friend asks him to leave his house because there is not enough food to share.
The man yells curses at his friend calling him all kind of nasty names.
I suggest to this man :Why don 't you go home,just go home
The friend points a gun at him and asks him again to leave his house.
I beg the man :he will shoot you if you do leave his house,he does not have enough food to share with you..
What part of " I do not enough food to share with you" that you do not understand ?
Haitian1804 DO YOU UNDERSTAND ? stop being stubborn !
""maybe this s what the US gvt gonna do to you etiennc since the financial crisis is getting worst, maybe you ll have to go back to your potatoes field in DR"""lol
Written by: etiennc, 6 Dec 2008 1:21 PM
From: United States
I will sell first my house in Florida then my condo in Cabarte ,Dominican Republic.
Since i have my masters in Psychology I will look for a job as a social worker.
If I deplete all my fund and I can not get a job even in teaching or in translating since I am fluent in English, Spanish, French, Haitian Creole then i will grow potatoes as you said on that small plot that I have in Imbert.RD
And you what will you do if you can not get the visa, Will you board one of these flimsy small boats and end up dead on one of Floriad's beaches.
Or if you survive, will you call to help you with the immigration process?
I have done that do.
Haitian 1804 you still carry on you that stupid voodoo protection.That makakri that you have around you neck?
This is what Generoso told me: you scared that a friend,a neighbour or member of your familiy , may try to harm by putting a hex on you
Oh this is why that you do not eat nor drink from your friends or parents house
What a coward !
Written by: haitian1804, 6 Dec 2008 1:54 PM
From: Haiti
you wrong again my friend,I have a canadian, US, UE,UK visa. i can go anywhere I want i ve worked for that.I stay in my country because i never beleived that i ve to leave my country to live well as you beleived, if you r so smart. why you don t stay in DR and help your people by creating jobs and be an exemple for the next generation.when a young student see me here, he knows that he can succed in his country, that he doesn't have to leave Haiti to be someone. you may have all the things you want anywhere in the world but it s always better to have a small thing in your home country. by da way Racism and can t accept a religious is equal. anyone have the right to worship what he wants,and you have to respect that. I chose to ba a Catholic that is my choice, as you respect it respect the ones who chose voodoo,Islam....and so on...okay little boy
Written by: etiennc, 6 Dec 2008 7:01 PM
From: United States
BAKA1804 oops ! I mean Haitian1804, I have to give credit where credit is due.
You have changed a lot. You are calmer , subdue, and more rational.
Your sentences are more coherent and you do not strumble on words.
Bravo ! you used to be so irritable !
You have not even asked for Genoroso !

Written by: generoso, 7 Dec 2008 10:22 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
I am here etiennc I am here and always "en guarde".
1804 Thank you for your forgiveness, boss, but I only have one question....What was my crime?
Written by: gouletcolonial This user is banned, 7 Dec 2008 10:50 AM
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
1804 has been off the crack ...let us hope he stays ....clean and sober
Written by: antonioj, 7 Dec 2008 3:31 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Dominicanchic I understand border countries tend to have cross cultural influences, DR and Haiti are no exceptions, Let me point out that the Haitian influences have had they foot print all over the carribean.

check this URL

http://dr1.com/forums/dr-debates/....nican-acceptance-chiris-blog.html
Written by: generoso, 7 Dec 2008 3:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
Agla agla agla agla agla agla,
Aleph, Nun, Vau, Resh, Cheth,Qoph, Daleth,Shin
Recabustira, Cabustira, Bustira, Tira, Ra, A.
I conjure you evil spirits to go back and possess the bodies of those that sent you..NOW!!!!
Written by: gouletcolonial This user is banned, 7 Dec 2008 4:00 PM
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
you guys will be sorry now !
Written by: antonioj, 7 Dec 2008 5:28 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"
gouletcolonial, 7 Dec 2008 3:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Zona Colonial Casa Cordon
tonyj returns ice scraper in his mittens
"


I will take your advice GC it did not happen, I am anxious now... I will keep it close.. I have a feeling, that I will soon need it again jajaja
Written by: gouletcolonial This user is banned, 7 Dec 2008 5:39 PM
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
how about those Maple Leafs ....they sux
Written by: antonioj, 7 Dec 2008 6:31 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Here's another link

Language, Culture, and Caribbean Studies - Fall 1 2008
Dominican-Haitian Relations

http://www.studiesabroad.com/prog....ession/ISGF1108/viewCourses/44766

go leaf go go
Written by: gouletcolonial This user is banned, 7 Dec 2008 7:17 PM
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
go back to 1968 and watch the videos
Written by: etiennc, 7 Dec 2008 7:54 PM
From: United States
Haitian1804 I hope that you will fight for the right of the RESTAVEKS.
This is the sad heritage of slavery,for a Haitian to prove that he has money he must have a pack of restaveks.
As a matter of fact he treats the restaveks as aslaves. They are sexually and physically abused.
They are denied all human rights :right for an education and right for healh.Most restaveks are maimed from the regular beatings.
You would rather stay in Haiti so you can have your restaveks
Remember in the 1950's a dark Haitian could not enter certain clubs in Haiti unless he was a doctor or an army officer,They would introduce him by his title first : Please meet DOCTOR so and so,please meet cononel or general so and so
Why poeple with last names such as :Meleus,Fisido, Fizius,Cineus,Lamise.Benisoit,Charitable ect are stiil sterotyped and regarded as campesinos (moune andeho)
Written by: haitian1804, 7 Dec 2008 9:50 PM
From: Haiti
The restaveks as you say etiennc, are not keep illegaly as you may think. i ve seen many comments about the restaveks. do you many of them are happy to be in a house than in the streets. and to find something to eat instead of begging.So if we r complaining about restaveks we have to think a bout a way to keep the children in their family, cause sometime it s their parents that give them to another rich family because they can t take care of them. what we need is free school and meals to the children.
Written by: etiennc, 7 Dec 2008 10:38 PM
From: United States
Haitian1804 i am afraid that you may have a point.
I know a few restaveks who have been brought here to US by the people they used to live with.
They made it .one of them owns a church in New jersey and is making a lot of money
There is also another one who finished high school , graduated college and went to write a book about the life of restaveks
But this is an exeption to the rule
Written by: antonioj, 7 Dec 2008 11:34 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"etiennc
You would rather stay in Haiti so you can have your restaveks
Remember in the 1950's a dark Haitian could not enter certain clubs in Haiti unless he was a doctor or an army officer,They would introduce him by his title first : Please meet DOCTOR so and so,please meet cononel or general so and so
Why poeple with last names such as :Meleus,Fisido, Fizius,Cineus,Lamise.Benisoit,Charitable ect are stiil sterotyped and regarded as campesinos (moune andeho)
"
Please spare me the BS Haitian have nobody else to blame but themselves the great black majority, do you see some common element here Mugabe in a very short time, turn a fertile country into a desert, base on that same principle. The last time Haiti had a mulato president was under Elie Lescot 1945. Let me point out for the recorf Elie and Trujillo were friend I do not think Elie shared his view regarding race.

(www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,934377,00.html)
Written by: etiennc, 8 Dec 2008 10:00 AM
From: United States
Antonioj
You have missed my position.I was the one who brought up the restavek's subject to point out the fact that Haitians are treating Haitians like slaves.
I always feel like they say en Creole "Si anndan pa vann deho pa kab achete"litterally translated : If you mistreat your brother , do not complain when estranfer mistreats him, But we need to be objective I amnot applauding Haitian1804's position, but if he felt that we should have undeligned a few sucess stories regarding the resravek s I beleive we should not refute his argument.
What we try to do in this forum is to educate and re-educate each other.It is better that the insults slinging that has ben going on for too long.
A rational and calmer post is good for this forum and should be welcome You know how abrasive,erractic ,and delusional that some posters can be sometimes
Written by: etiennc, 8 Dec 2008 10:15 AM
From: United States
con't The idea of Elie lescot and Trujillo were friends underligned the worries of many Haitians.
The money that Trujillo was forced to give for the death of the Haitians killed (amounted $ 25 per Haitian killed) ended up in the foreign bank accounts of Elie Lescot. and his pack.
It was a trade that Jean Claude Duvalier continued until he was force out of office:getting a certain amount of money for each bracero sent to cut sugar cane in the Dominican Republic.
I am afraid that you failed to ask yourself the reason behind the meeting of Lescot and Trujuillo who by the way came "armed" to meet Lescot.
We need not only to narrate some historical event, we also need to question he state of mind of the actors of the event.
We should be concerned not only with the Whats, the Whos , the Wheres ,but also with the Whys
We were never told that it was paid blacks who went inside the African jungles to kidnap their brothers to turn them the slaves merchants.
Written by: etiennc, 8 Dec 2008 10:15 AM
From: United States
con't The idea of Elie lescot and Trujillo were friends underligned the worries of many Haitians.
The money that Trujillo was forced to give for the death of the Haitians killed (amounted $ 25 per Haitian killed) ended up in the foreign bank accounts of Elie Lescot. and his pack.
It was a trade that Jean Claude Duvalier continued until he was force out of office:getting a certain amount of money for each bracero sent to cut sugar cane in the Dominican Republic.
I am afraid that you failed to ask yourself the reason behind the meeting of Lescot and Trujuillo who by the way came "armed" to meet Lescot.
We need not only to narrate some historical event, we also need to question he state of mind of the actors of the event.
We should be concerned not only with the Whats, the Whos , the Wheres ,but also with the Whys
We were never told that it was paid blacks who went inside the African jungles to kidnap their brothers to turn them the slaves merchants.
Written by: generoso, 8 Dec 2008 10:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
etiennc
As a psychologist you must understand very well the traumatic Haitian mentality. Just as a Dominican that are fascinated and impressed by "strong men" like Trujillo, Haitians as well have
all their socio-political beliefs and traumas that come from way back.
Why is it that Haitians can not carry on an intelligent dialogue without all the demeaning insults
and mud slinging?
Their anger is just overpowering and drowns any cries for understanding.
Instead of behaving like wild animals with a case of rabies they must control their blind hate and be less of a loose cannon that shoot at everything including their own kind in total chaos like rabid persons that are possessed by evil spirits.
Have you heard he story of Caonabo the Indian chieftain? It is told that after he was chained by the Spaniards and was taken to Spain as a caged animal that was so angry that he bit himself while in captivity and caused his own demise. Had he been eloquent it would have been another story.
Written by: WhySmitty This user is banned, 13 Dec 2008 9:34 PM
From: United States
President-Elect Obama Has just appointed a Haitian-American by the name of Patrick Gaspard as the White house Political Director. FACTS: Haitians (Toussaint Louverture) rescued Dominicans from slavery. The article mentioned that DR spent so much money on Haitian health care. What about what is owed to the Haitians for cheap labor. DR owes the Haitians 100 times more. Write the check and send it to Haitian-American Obama's White House Political Director Patrick Gaspard. The Haitians are strong and proud people. They saved the United States Revolution in 1779 in Savannah, Georgia during the Revolutionary War. Haiti is and will remain forever the FIRST BLACK INDEPENDENT COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. The country that saved the U.S. Revoultion. The country that rescued Dominican Republic from slavery. The country that empowered Simon Bolivar. Let's combine DR and Haiti and call it "HAITI". A lot of Dominicans in NY agree with the idea. Join us. E-mail us at WhyGeorges@gmail.com.
Gracias. Merci
Written by: generoso, 13 Dec 2008 10:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
Lautaro
Don't waste your time with this guy he is a "troll". Instigator just looking for a fight and attention.
Same tired old reasoning about reuniting the island. As a matter of fact he might be a recycled
Dominicanation or haitian1804. They are just Haitian immature college age kids having fun at our expense. They have little culture and 0 knowledge of history, remember that Haiti as been always ruled by the most fierce dictators that have restricted information and freedom of the press.
They just talk about ancient history because that's all that they learnt in school.
BTW they are probably going to school in DR and residing here.
Written by: haitian1804, 13 Dec 2008 11:05 PM
From: Haiti
lolll...Genoroso you might be losing your mind it s not recycling I ve been everywhere recruit Haitians to teach you lessons since I don t have to much time to come doing anymore...good Job whysmitty.
Written by: generoso, 14 Dec 2008 9:11 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
haitian1804
Hey boss, are you rising from your nightly coffin nap?
How is it there in the dark side?
Find any cousins that are also zombies in the Lavalas underground?
BTW I have a question for you:
Did you ever meet or read about Jean Dominique of radio Inter?
Was he killed because he was a mulatto or because of his views? or both?
Written by: arkatype This user is banned, 15 Dec 2008 2:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Generoso that last post! PRICELESS!!!!!
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