Written by: josean, 15 Apr 2008 7:52 AM
From: United States
A more positive headline:
Dominican Economy gets a boost as Haitians come to the border to buy scarce commodities!
You see it is all in the spin of the language!
From: United Kingdom
"there is much of everything," due to president Leonel Fernandez’s vision. Que Lambon!
From: United States
Josean: "DREAMS and DREAMS"...........................
Your opinions are so "Mentally challenged" and "Disabled"
From: United States
Rubirosa: Are you on this board to exclusively to negate every comment that is posted by Josean. I read the paper everyday and barely comment however, I notice that every time Josean makes a comment you refute him. I dont personally know Josean but it is getting quite annoying. Is there a reason for this? I don't think his comment was "Mentally Challenged". Do you know Josean personally and know he is Haitian or disabled? and what if he was Haitian. I think that this is an educational forum and everyone should be treated equally. As a Dominican I like to read others perspective, especially if they live or have strong ties to the Dominican Republic.
From: United States
Regarding BenCardozo, 15 Apr 2008 11:57 AM:
I think you are very correct. This is a forum to respectfully and intelligently discuss real current issues. If no meeting of the mind can be achieved then at the minimum a means to educate ourselves a little more. Unfortunately many of us allow our civility and intellect to be hijacked by our strong passionate opposition to certain topics or issues. That’s why on occasion it is good to be reminded to breath take a break and have a perspective about the real issues and what’s at the core. Thank you very much for mentioning this.
From: United States
Bencardonazo and ladronazo: Good point for both of you since you too belong to the same group that is living in denial and since You too are not "DOMINICANS", you have not right to "Disrespect
our country.
It's funny How You guys get in touch with each other to publish your opinions and then try to tarnish everybody else against Your haitian agenda.
From: United States
why don't you guys report it as SPAM.
From: United States
"Dominican Economy gets a boost as Haitians come to the border to buy scarce commodities!"
josean: How is one border town lifting the economy of the nation?... Remember that dominicans are already adjusting to the new lower prices just the same as they have adjusted to the 2am no beer rule.
Written by: josean, 15 Apr 2008 4:50 PM
From: United States
CarlosFranco
My point was not related to the economics of the issue.
Rather with the sensationalist nature of the THE HEADLINE, which although I am sure was not the intent of DT, it could lend itself to the Haitian phobes and racists concluding they are coming to invade us. Especially this part "spurs border crossing after Dominican abundance."
Remember there are people who think that if a Haitian breaths near the border, they are conspiring to suck up all of the oxygen from the Dominican Republic.
From: United States
DT is very liberal. Just look at the articles posted by its editors; very pro-dominican and not anti-haitian
Written by: antonioj, 16 Apr 2008 3:47 PM
From: Canada, Oakville
"JRRubirosa,
Bencardonazo and ladronazo: Good point for both of you since you too belong to the same group that is living in denial and since You too are not "DOMINICANS", you have not right to "Disrespect
our country.
"
Ms Rubirosa you can do better than that, I totally agree with both gentleman above. You can have your opinion, which I respectfully disagree with, nevertheless that does not stop you from being reasonable, your commentary was petty and childish. Interestingly enough anyone who do not share your narrow minded opinion are not Dominican or uneducated?? I got news for you there are alot of well educated Dominicans.
These poor folks are figthing to survive , and put food at their table yet they have an agenda !!. Can
you perhaps educate the forum, and explain to us what is the Haitian agenda ? Dont worry I will wait ....
From: United States
AntonioJ: the agenda of abusing our country by posting lies on all these forums regarding Your own personal objectives and which people like you want us to live in denial.
Remember few months ago when "Sonia Pierre" staged her "Campaign" to discredit
Dominican Republic.
This is the agenda of your "Smart" people, That's what You always brag about it, speaking more languages than us, that We copy from your culture, that We abuse You and discriminate You
and We should let your people do as They please coming to our land.
You got Your answer...............
Written by: antonioj, 16 Apr 2008 4:24 PM
From: Canada, Oakville
QUOTE
" JRRubirosa, 16 Apr 2008 3:55 PM
the agenda of abusing our country by posting lies on all these forums regarding Your own personal objectives and which people like you want us to live in denial.
Remember few months ago when "Sonia Pierre" staged her "Campaign" to discredit
Dominican Republic."
UNQUOTE
You live in Lala Land Ms Rubi , and again your posting depict flagrant misunderstanding of facts and fictions, which can only be attributed to your delusionary mind couple with arrogance, and ignorance, this is indeed extremely revealing for someone living in the USA , take heed!
From: United States
Antonioj: So Sonia Pierre discrediting our country???
I'm lying this time right???
Waiting for Your answer, how come your people see what is convenient for Your own good.
What about Sonia Pierre getting people from other countries to get to DR and abuse the freedom that She had to gain notorierity and international awards on detriment of our "motherland"
Written by: antonioj, 16 Apr 2008 8:05 PM
From: Canada, Oakville
Quote
JRRubirosa, 16 Apr 2008 5:34 PM
Antonioj: So Sonia Pierre discrediting our country??? I'm lying this time right???
Unquote
Any set agenda have a leader, any idea who can it be ? (lol) frankly you are very incoherent , rumbling and difficult to follow. I promised do to my best to understand you.
You a are total contrast to Mr Lautaro, I wish there are more of him on both side of the island, please learn from the best (dime y como esta tu vida carinosa).
Good luck,
From: United States
Antonioj: simple question is what do You think about Sonia Pierre international defamation against Dominican Republic????
Specially lying to the UN team so She could gain international recognition..............
Your people enjoy to play smart to Your own benefit and turn a blind eye to reality right on Your face.
Like somebody already said to me not to follow Your non sense opinions since You are very
sensitive people and don't have the guts to take "Criticism" to develop in a "Professional"
manner.
Regardless what I said to You, Your people and Your civilization Will never get the point to see
things in a "Real Perspective" manner and time.
Good luck with the UN "Blue Helmets" in Your country and don't know how They can have patience to be there dealing with the BS going on forever.
From: United States
It is incredible how ignorance really transcends all borders.
In my earlier entry on 15 Apr 2008 12:47 PM I clearly indicated my agreement with regards to this site being an education forum. My comments did not make any mention or reference to support or condemn points of views towards Haitians. Nonetheless there are many who read but don't have the cognitive skills and ability to comprehend and interpret the words written.
Now, to answer the ill remarks which could only be attributed to lack of knowledge i.e ignorance and possibly lack of maturity, in its purest form. I will state the following:...
From: United States
I am Dominican Born. I have had family in politics holding positions from the lowest to the highest attainable in the Republic. My family is from a diverse background both economically and racially. Of this I am very proud. At a very young age I was afforded the opportunity to live in the U.S. and benefit from the freedoms of this country as well as from the freedoms of my own native country. I am a patriot of two nations, but my roots do yearn to return to their native soil. This yearn is what has brought me here, here to this site. Initially, I had high expectations to find a culmination of diverse intellectual exchange. I thought it was an opportunity to engage in many real substantive and benefiting discussions about the current state of My country, Dominican Republic......
From: United States
....I thought it was a place to discuss, how and why it has arrived at its current state, and how "we" as an intelligent people are going to get out of this mess. Disconcerting reality, I have found though there are many here, who do have the capacity and desire to exchange meaningful dialogue and ideas, there does exist a marginal but relevant and very distasteful minority that does not have the aptitude or ability to engage in such constructive dialogue as expected. As usual, it will be the ones who could benefit the most from this site, that will inevitably loose the most. It is really hoped for the future of this site that the abusive and dyspeptic language used, could be eliminated if not curtailed. I seriously think, we should be using this site as a tool to enrich ourselves, broaden our perception and understanding of as many things "Dominican" and not, as means to entertain our malicious compunction.
Written by: antonioj, 17 Apr 2008 12:19 PM
From: Canada, Oakville
"
Written by: JRRubirosa, 17 Apr 2008 12:33 AM
From: United States
Antonioj: simple question is what do You think about Sonia Pierre international defamation against Dominican Republic????
"
Rubi, I am not very familiar with the all story, from my point of view there have been some manipulation from the aid agency to portray DR in a negative way. Alot of spin there, Sonia was born and raised in DR from Haitian families.
From: United States
Antonioj: thanks for Your reply..
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
THE MODERN, YET SILENT EXTERNAL DOMINATION OF HAITI:
“The Current Colonization From Abroad”
By Wilgeens Rosenberg
The external domination of Haiti's resources and political processes mostly by U.S. interests is so deep and pervasive that no autonomy remains in the Country. It has become way too common of the Haitian people to place blame on the Haitian Government which by all means and understandably have not been stern nor firm in engaging into more pro-active efforts to properly represent the impoverished Nation.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Within Haiti, it seems as though the people have ceased to be inspired and lack brevity to truly confront the Country's real problems as they have done or as it had happened before when Haiti was once ruled by the fierceness of the Duvalierist regime when artists, writers, philosophers and local politicians used to engage in motivated movements to advocate for change and were willing to pay the price for Country. To think back then it was way less democratically feasible to may have happened or taken place; but nonetheless those movements did prevail and brought an end to the dictatorship ruling of the Country.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Haiti now has no arms ban over it which has long been lifted. Now, why the preparation and training for a new Haitian Armed Forces is not underway is beyond anyone's guess. The regular Haitian Armed Forces (FAdH) - Army, Navy, and Air Force - have been demobilized but still exist on paper unless they are constitutionally abolished. Thus, even if such effort to reinstate the Haitian Army were to or would have been started by having the UN foreign troops that are present in the Country right now to assist Haiti in attending to such goal, this would have brought so much prospect of change into the Country. However and unsurprisingly enough, the Haitian Government has expressed no intent concerning that possibility.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Perhaps certain accords were made between the U.S and the Dominican Republic fearing that an armed and yet an economically challenged Haiti would be crucially very threatening toward their Sovereignty which explains why the sudden support in arms by the United States to the Dominican Republic in bolstering their military capability.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Haiti's need to inspire ideals of nationhood, solidarity and civic duty; to include the social, economical as well as the political improvement to uplift Haiti's redemptive mission in the world from constant chronic instability and vulnerability to outside or foreign interventions relies on the Country's military integrity in defense of respect and total national sovereignty. Simply because, if anything, these words should still mean something to Haiti and its people: "En me renversant, on a abattu que le trunc de l'arbre de la liberte des Noirs; il repousesra par les racines parce qu'elles sont profondes et nombreuses" - Toussaint Louverture.
So, as history repeats itself in recapturing or seeing newly modern invasions or occupations that exploit with systematically corrupt and handicap policies that keep defeating other nations' paths to self sufficiency and aim to incapacitate furthermore oppressed people; then so shall the innate right of the people of Haiti to become united
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
(Sorry, most got cut off).
So, as history repeats itself in recapturing or seeing newly modern invasions or occupations that exploit with systematically corrupt and handicap policies that keep defeating other nations' paths to self sufficiency and aim to incapacitate furthermore oppressed people; then so shall the innate right of the people of Haiti to become united in the name of nation as a nation in reliving Haiti's true meaning to the National devise of “L'Union Fait La Force.”
Written by: antonioj, 18 Apr 2008 7:28 AM
From: Canada, Oakville
HispanolanoYoSoy, 18 Apr 2008 3:26 AM
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Mr HispanolanoYoSoy, you right on !! you hit the nail right on the head, amazing commentary
good read, thank you for bringing your prospective to the forum.
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 9:20 AM
From: Dominican Republic
More than the formation of an army, what the haitian people needs the most is for the gov. to bring the corrupt former military authorities to justice. That's the only way that the wounds made by political factions afflicting that nation will finally begin to heal, and it would also serve as a deterrent against any new putschist adventures or any other potential felonies to the soldiers of the new army yet to form.
From: Dominican Republic
Haitians think they are so important, that the world can not go around without them.
The Dominican Republic would have been a better nation without that problematic country next to us. Constant conficts, massive deforestation, ETC, ETC, .... that's Haiti, who needs that?
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 11:21 AM
From: Dominican Republic
You'll excuse me mr. Diaz, but you must be really barking mad if you are blaming them of being the cause of our own failings. As things are standing, they're suffering a lot for the mistakes of their leadership and the ones made willingly or unwillingly by foreign factors, so it's unjust to blame the population for their plight when, for the most part, they haven't been given the chance to have a say over their own country's affairs.
From: Dominican Republic
That's the thing with Haitians, they always blaming others. Haitians are always playing "the victim", and looking outside for somebody else to blame. If is not the French, is the Americans, or the Dominicans, or the UN, but never the Haitians. Haitians are "Saints" that have never done anything wrong. More than 200 years of the same thing. It is time for the Haitians to start seeing themselves reflected backwards on a mirror.
Written by: arcatype 
, 18 Apr 2008 2:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I agree with you 100% Carlos Diaz
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Nevertheless to give your comment a more positive spin, yes indeed, Haitian have always play victim given the fact they are either use to and are allways being victimize bu constant resentful nations that are set out to create made up differences between two same people inahbited the very same Island. Blaming others has always been human nature generally for evey humans known to Earth.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
If you can see as evidence, the Haitian people tend to primarilly blame the lack of effort of their own Governments for their plight before anything else. However, foreign interventions play a major role to the stoppage of progress for the Country along with other neighboring Nations which use Haiti's current condition to either isolate or discriminate against them given their constant crisis and unrests in the Country.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
While you have claimed that "Haitians have always been blaming others and play victims". Meanwhile, is it not somewhat cowardice on the Dominican Republic's part to to be exploiting Haiti's current condition status and claim that they are to blame for the lack of their own progression or of the entire Island when DR has not been pro-active itself at trying to improve on the long thorn relationship with Haiti. Whether it will take the Haitian or the Dominican Republic to be the bigger person to act on this... Who whill step up to the plate to ease or defuse this long drawn out tension between the two Nations to start co-existing and assisting each other overcome and prosper for the greater cause of a future and better Hispanola/ Hispaniola?
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
When you, a person or in this argument a nation wants to play big brother or claim supremacy, believe it or not, more is expected of you to live up to that claim. Which means, if you are so good, better or perfect why have you, this person or Nation not engaging into respecting more basic human rights and advocate for it unless if your deep inner alterior intent and motive is to supresse, discriminate and to do harms? Would a Dominican or someone of any other nationality like it if his/her child was to born in the U.S and for that child not to have an American Birth Certificate, illigal, in transiton or not this immigrant may be or have been? Of course not. Well that is happening in DR. Are Dominicans not asking for improvements on basic Human Rights in America? Of course they are. You get my drift. So where can a blame be placed on DR one may ask... tsk tsk tsk?
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Let us for one second say, you know what: The Dominican Republic has done nothing wrong and that they should not be blamed for anything at all in retrospect of anything regarding Haiti. Fine. Then tell me why recently a Presidential Latin-American Summit took place right next door to Haiti in DR that Haiti as Afro-Latinos or a Latin-American Country was not invited in light of the well known Chicken Avian crisis, the Border and Human right issues and tensions thatexist between the two neighboring Countries? Why has the Dominican Republic not taken advantage or profit from this occasion to tackle and address the issues at hands meanwhile pretentiously was playing moderator to the recent Venezuelan-Columbian issue? Explain that my friends.
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 4:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Well, mr. Hispano, Haiti WAS invited to attend, but only the ex-prime minister Alexis did come, because Preval was feeling slightly ill at the time (that was the official excuse given for his not attending). About not taking the opportunity for tackling the island's issues, I believe this was due to the utter urgency of the Venezuelan-Colombian-Ecuatorian situation. You have to understand that we're talking about a conflict that could have made the entire South American Continent to blow up, very literally, so I doubt Insulza and the others would have devoted their time attending our petty quarrels when there was a more urgent matter to negotiate at hand.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Tell me something. When your parents or relatives, your employer or just even someone lacks faith and trsut in you in terms of responsibility what do you do? Yes, you step up to the plate and prove yourself that you are responsible am I correct? So since DR is using their recent growth in economy as to state that they are now better than Haiti. So let us for one second say okay, granted. Then let us see they start putting their effort where their supposedly alleged postition is. I do not see any actual native Dominicans Civil Rights movements, foundations or Activists come forward and advocate for peace and common respects for Haitians rights living in DR and if there are please give me their information if anyone knows of any at all. Sonia Pierre who is this Haitian-Dominican activist is the most hated person in DR simply because she stands for the rights of Haitians or Dominican Haitians in DR. Tell me why that is so.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
LAUTARO: Really, so Haiti's Prime Minister did attend? Do you have documents of that? Information indeed I did not have nor know. Please, can you furnish me with some kind of evidence of that. If indeed Haiti was there, then my bad and you are right; if there are more bigger issues at hands, then yes by all means they should be priority. Thank you, Lautaro!!! Can you give me so me kind of proof of that, that Haiti was there. A picture, a letter or a document of so me kind or is that simply just assumable speculations on your part?
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 4:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Well, I can name you activists like Dagoberto Tejeda, the singer Roldan Marmol and others, but I know this wouldn't satisfy your curiosity. The only thing that I can tell you for sure is that there is not only one answer for this issue. The only thing that I can say is that Sonia Pierre's apparent lack of popularity among the population may be due to the fact that: a) due to the ignorance pervading a big part of the population, it has been really easy for the elites to associate their interest with the national ones, a thing done daily by their overwhelming influence on the media of the country., b) the fact that Sonia receives funds from the USAID and other agencies of the US gov hasn't helped matters either. You'll be surprised to hear this, but, notwithstanding our love of baseball and other american cultural expressions, there is still a current of anti-US sentiment that runs strongly on the population, due to the fact that a lot of people in country lost a relative during (cont..)
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 4:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 4:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
(cont...) well, continuing with Sonia Pierre's issue. b) There's still a current of anti-US feeling on the population, due to US support to the country's reactionary forces during the 1965 civil war and Balaguer's mini-dictatorship afterwards. On those two periods, a lot of people lost a relative or two during the anti-communist raids made by the governmental forces with CIA backing. So it's easy for the media to capitalize that feeling into hatred against any perceived "come-cheque" of the US embassy, which is (apparently) Mrs. Pierre's case.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
MR Lautaro, I am all about proof and if you submit some kind of proof to me I will always appreciate it and it is my obligationto further research that proof, you feel me... But by far you hae provento be to most worthy to engage into any kind of deabte about the two Nations and dear friend is where lies my respect for you. Do not for one think I am a bitter person. If I were to be bitter it would be in light of seeing the deterioation of the situation of both Countries and as a someone who shares the blood of both people it can be quite devastating, you understand? Some Haitians think I am trying tobe Dominican and some Dominicans think I am flattering them thus believe I am denying bieng Haitians. So I ask them what if I were to show embrace more my Jewish side or ancestry what would their stances be on that, you know lol. Amigo, it is hard. Es tan dificil- Zacharia Fererra.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Lautaro, ahora a donde vives? I may need your further help and assistance. Would being part of my soon to be organizations a possibility?
H.A.J - Hispanolanos Ahora Juntos: It is a movement and revolution for peace.
Then D.H.A - Dominicans & Haitians Alliance.
Also H.P.C: 2020 - Haiti Project Code: 2020
Featuring H.P.C: 2020 - Hispanola Projecto Codigo: 2020
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 5:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Don't worry about it, mr. Hispano. Actually, it is a good thing your insistence in being shown proofs of anything, because there are a lot of people on this kind of activity that loves to impose their views without some kind of challenge, and that, my friend, is absolutely detrimental to democracy.
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 5:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I have a question for you: Do you, by chance, know about a blogger over here with the name Perception? I'm asking this because he has taken the liberty of posting some of your verses on more than one article over the site.
From: Dominican Republic
Bla..bla.. bla.. bla.. that's all Haitians do.
Written by: arcatype , 19 Apr 2008 1:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Carlos Diaz you got my vote!
Written by: rom1804, 19 Apr 2008 2:36 PM
From: Zimbabwe
What about H.D.R The Haitian Dominican Republic I would like that better. Yeah Lets call it H-D-R
Written by: arcatype , 19 Apr 2008 5:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: antonioj, 19 Apr 2008 9:23 PM
From: Canada, Oakville
"
CarlosDiaz, 18 Apr 2008 1:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic
That's the thing with Haitians, they always blaming others. Haitians are always playing "the victim", and looking outside for somebody else to blame. If is not the French, is the Americans, or the Dominicans, or the UN, but never the Haitians. Haitians are "Saints" that have never done anything wrong. More than 200 years of the same thing. It is time for the Haitians to start seeing themselves reflected backwards on a mirror.
"
Some real hard truth in there Carlos, but it's little bit more complicated than that, I would disagree with your second comment, it's uncall for and does not add anything....worth debating
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
LAUTARO: Did you mean to ask me this question?
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 5:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I have a question for you: Do you, by chance, know about a blogger over here with the name Perception? I'm asking this because he has taken the liberty of posting some of your verses on more than one article over the site.
Written by: antonioj, 20 Apr 2008 9:02 AM
From: Canada, Oakville
contd (2)
After the ouster of Jean-Claude Duvalier in 1986, a series of US-sponsored military juntas implemented neoliberal policies, slashing tariffs, and allowing cheap imports from the US and the Dominican Republic to flood the Haitian market. Trade liberalisation meant that food imports undercut local farmers, who were denied subsidies, or the means to invest in their production, killing the Haitian food industry, and driving the farme
Written by: antonioj, 20 Apr 2008 9:02 AM
From: Canada, Oakville
main (1)
Let me just post something interesting, Mr Lautaro do you have any comments ?
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080420/focus/focus2.html Having long lived in isolation, Haiti had always cultivated a very high level of self-sufficiency, especially when it came to food production. Haiti was once self-sufficient in staples like rice and sugar, and the peasants had their indigenous black pigs, which were literally their piggy bank. US-backed dictators like the Duvaliers allowed US interests to initiate the deforestation of Haiti, and to destroy the local pig industry.
Written by: arcatype , 20 Apr 2008 1:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic
antonioj There you go again blame the U.S. for the ill's of Haiti, sir like i said and i will say it again! the U.S. is not to blame for the problems in Haiti. It is self inflicted by the mulatto elites that have monopolized the economy of Haiti for their own benefit. The U.S. and other developed countries have given 100's if not billions of dollars in aid to Haiti, only to see that aid money end up in the pockets of corrupt officials. Now let me ask you why would the U.S. want to destroy haiti's economy, haiti cannot compete at any level with the U.S. economy. Haiti does not bear any bountiful resource, haiti has no strategic importance the U.S. has Guantanamo in Cuba they have military bases in Puerto Rico the cold war is no longer a problem, so those military sites are not as important as they were in the past. So tell me why the U.S. would castigate Haiti so harshly?
Written by: Lautaro, 20 Apr 2008 1:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic
If you think that the US is innocent of having part of the blame in Haiti´s current plight, then you´re being incredibly delusional, mr. arcatype. The reason that the US have for punishing Haiti is the same one that it has for punishing the rest of the countries of Latin America: to have captive markets for their products and colonies to exploit from which it can extort the necessary funds to sustain their excessive consumption. Plus, on Haiti's case there exist another underlying motive: to punish the only successful slave rebellion in the history of humanity for their having defied the abusive capitalist order denying it of one of the richest colonies in the history of the humanity, an example that could not be left unpunished. Before western imperialism would be defied on Argeria, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan (with the Soviets), and now with Iraq, there was the haitian example. That's reason enough for them to punish Haiti all the more harshly. (cont....)
Written by: Lautaro, 20 Apr 2008 1:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
(cont...) If you must know, the only reason preventing the haitian elites being unceremoniously kicked out of the country by the populace is that they're counting with the support of the US Army's South Command (and now the UN's Blue Helmets). Tell me, mr. arcatype, is that not reason enough for you to see them with other eyes?
Written by: arcatype , 20 Apr 2008 3:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Lautaro In the western hemisphere theirs only one country that is fully developed apart from Canada, that's the U.S. The perception of many is that U.S. foreign policy strictly is used as an instrument to hurt the economic growth of other nation's as time passes by that perception is becominig more of a lie then true Sure the U.S. has intervene in the affairs of less developed countries, and have used military might to supress political factions that are creating havoc in different nations, but deeply study these situations and understand that when things occur usually the U.S. is involved as a mediator not as one to create more problems. The U.S. is the only country with a sizeable and sophisticated military, that's why they get involved in such actions that require control of large scale violence. If you dont know? the U.S. is the largest trading partner in the western hemisphere for all countries south of it's border, so U.S. involvement is something basic to understand.
Written by: arcatype , 20 Apr 2008 3:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Cont., As far as the elites in Haiti, they are not being protected by the U.N. or the U.S. military. The common citizen is being protected by them, turmoil only spreads within the common people not within the very small elite that is the brain behind a country that can move forward or become more impoverished. The U.N. and U.S. authorities could only count on those that have means, in a country where goverment and it's military have exploited it's majority black population with the help of the elites trust dwindles ever more.
Written by: antonioj, 20 Apr 2008 3:38 PM
From: Canada, Oakville
Mr arcatype I used to think just like you. I took the time to read, and research instead what the press and TV was feeding me, then I had a change of heart, I realized the US goverment have created alot of humanity crisis around the world due some of their policies.
I was not blaming the US, I wanted to point out an interesting article. From my point of view mainly Haitians politicians and Haitians should bear most of the blame for their present states
but one can not deny the effect of external forces such as: (imf world bank, NGO ect..)
Mr arctype you are very eloquent, here's a quick crash course in Haitian contemporary history, it's a sweet and short good read .
Enjoy.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-4502611.htmlMr Lautaro , again I could not have phrase it any better, on behalf of the forum thank you for keeping us illuminated.
Written by: arcatype , 20 Apr 2008 3:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic
antonioj I will read the article that you posted, but trust me i dont believe everything that i watch in television or litsen on the radio, the problem is theirs pro's and con's in all situations. And to have a leftist view or a view towards the right, and just never sway is something that should worry most people's perception of what is reality!
Written by: rom1804, 20 Apr 2008 4:41 PM
From: Zimbabwe
You can kill them, you can starve them but you will never tarnish a Haitians pride.
We are poor YES but at least we are free. Sorry can't say the same for DR. you are still Spain's little b@#$es.
Written by: arcatype , 20 Apr 2008 5:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
rom1804 your a waste of time, long live Spain!!!!! and long live la Republica Dominicana and it's racial trinity of Indigenous, Spanish, African ancestries!!!!!
Written by: arcatype , 20 Apr 2008 9:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: arcatype , 20 Apr 2008 9:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
BAD LINK IGNORE ~corbetre/haiti/misctopic/leftover/whypoor.htm
Written by: antonioj, 20 Apr 2008 10:58 PM
From: Canada, Oakville
"
arcatype, 20 Apr 2008 5:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
rom1804 your a waste of time, long live Spain!!!!! and long live la Republica Dominicana and it's racial trinity of Indigenous, Spanish, African ancestries!!!!!
"
Excellent Mr aractype for acknowledging the African ancestries
Que viva Haiti and the Dominican in peace and Harmony with each other, However most educated Dominicans and myslef will not share your quote here " long live spain " I think you are being mistaken, sound like patronizing to me.
Written by: , 21 Apr 2008 8:04 AM
From:
See that's the big difference between Haitians and Dominicans You will never hear or see a Haitian type or say Vive La you know what NEVER... That's why I still can't trust Dominicans because they are still fond of their former masters....Oh yeah now you are going to tell me that the DRs were never slaves only the Haitians right....Even the natives were slaves how did you people managed not being enslaved again/?????? Remind me.
From: United Kingdom
blah blah blah
Written by: arcatype , 21 Apr 2008 1:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Mr.? Not all of what are today Dominican's are the descendant's of slaves unlike Haiti, the spaniards were in the island 200 years before the french. Many dominicans have spanish ancestry, just like they have Indigenous, Spanish, African. Dominicans in their majority are a mix of these three groups, again que viva Spain y la Republica Dominicana. Too bad haitians can say the same about France, you slaughtered all of them including some of the mulatto's. And again Mr.? you dont need to trust us, you need to trust your own goverment in Haiti!!!!! Thank You.....
Written by: antonioj, 21 Apr 2008 4:26 PM
From: Canada, Oakville
arcatype,
I agree partially with your argument, however I think it's simply wrong and patronizing to your former master, I am Haitian with Cuban heritage, I am very familiar with the spanish culture
you will not hear cuba, mexico, venezuela ect ..calling spain the mother land or long live spain, for that matter.
Perhaps depending in what context , this is a ill conceive notion and does not make any sense, dig a little bit more
Written by: rom1804, 21 Apr 2008 4:53 PM
From: Zimbabwe
Mr.? Not all of what are today Dominican's are the descendant's of slaves unlike Haiti, the spaniards were in the island 200 years before the french.Many dominicans have spanish ancestry, just like they have Indigenous Spanish, African. Dominicans in their majority are a mix of these three groups, again que viva Spain y la Republica Dominicana. Too bad haitians can say the same about France, you slaughtered all of them including some of the mulatto's"
Oh yeah and during those 200 years the Spaniards were just living like Happy Gilmores in perfect harmony with the natives there were no slavery involve at all on Hispaniola yeah sure. Oh no no Dominicans are not descendant of slaves you guys have always been up there with the rest of the white world, Even today all Dominicans are treated with the utmost respect and dignity throughout the whole world because thats the way it has always been and always will be RIGHT?
GTFOH.
Written by: rom1804, 21 Apr 2008 5:04 PM
From: Zimbabwe
Oh by the way since most Dominicans are full blooded Spaniards isn't the Dominican Republic part of the European Union? I mean Martinique, Guadeloupe and the rest of the French colonies are part of the Union I don't see why the motherland (SPAIN) hasn't sponsored you guys since Spain does care a lot for its people you know the full blooded Spaniard-Dominicans. or Spaniard of the West Indies whatever you people call yourselves these days.
Written by: arcatype , 21 Apr 2008 5:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic
rom1804 And the slaves in Haiti they are innocent little babies? They killed all the french people including children The elderly and woman. LONG LIVE SPAIN AND THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC!!!!!
Written by: arcatype , 21 Apr 2008 5:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic
i wonder why haiti is not part of that union?????
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Because even still those European estate or territories like Martinique, Guadeloupe are dependent estates that have not yet the balls to claim independence because they have gotten too complacent to the European provision and modern day colonization or domination. Which is why they look up to and embrace with admiration the African culture that exist in Haiti and other black cultured Caribbean nations and even then, they will never praise glory to France deep inside truly. And tha, can be sure of.
Written by: arcatype , 21 Apr 2008 6:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Good for you, i dont care about guadaloupe or martinique? The Dominican Republic is a multi-racial country where im from the Cibao region theirs plenty of white dominicans, most could trace their roots to Spain also the Canary Islands. We are not just a nation of blacks, we are very diverse ethnically and racially so when i say long live Spain that shouldont be a problem just like someone could say long live anything!!!!! you people are full of crap. You haitians have a huge racial problem in Haiti between the ruling mulatto class and the majority poor black masses that's why Haiti is so poor. First look at yourself then talk s**t!!!!!
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Perhaps let m show you my posts from another forum. "I am sorry if i have to keep mentioning that I am both Dominican and Haitian, but I only say this to rebuke Rubirosa's so called "Cousin with Cuba and Venezuela" statement. The Dominicans only like to flatter those they think can give them a hand out. and call them cousins base on profitable superficial and materialistic reasons only. If I recall, it was not until Hugo Chavez decided to give oil to most of the Latin Countries including Haiti that the Dominicans started to embrace him as the one prominent Latin Leader who does not bow to U.S. pressures as most other Latin-American Countries should learn from him instead of allowing foreign forces incapacitate their national sovereignty by externally dominate them by having them being so dependent.
Written by: rom1804, 21 Apr 2008 6:29 PM
From: Zimbabwe
Haiti can be part of that Union if it wanted to arcatype but you see my friend Haitians are like the old Spartan warriors we too have a little problem with kneeling to foreigners or anyone else to that matter. You know the old saying "Better to Rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven"
Don't think for one second because the UN is currently in our country that we are defeated its the other way around baby they can stay in Haiti for 1000 years they will never own us that's why they are trying to do that's the reason why they keep coming back. Its not because we can't govern ourselves it more like we don't want to play by their rules. Sorry can't say the same about DR they have you people in the palm of their hands.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
The Dominicans are flattering Puerto Ricans much like they do to Spain who themselves discriminate against them when they go to Puerto Rico or Espana. For those of you who have not been to PR or Spain will not know what I am talking about, but for those of you who have like I have you will know how bad Dominicans are being treated in Spain, PR, and Canada by some other Latin-Americans who see DR as true hypocrites. I say this with no direct offense to DR. One of the reasons why some of those other latin countries feel that way is because they know that DR will do anything much like a spanish conquerer would to get ahead with no humanity and self respect. Go to Dr and see how Dominicans treat white tourists versus how they treat black tourists. Two sets of different treatments.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Let us give credit to Brazil, Venezuela and Columbia who have accepted their African ancestry more so than any Portuguese or Spanish influences even when they are the ones with way less African traits and are more true indigenous natives, yet embrace their latin one just as well and much because they comprehend and respect the African connection that was made long ago to their culture. Which is why in Brazil they do not call a black brazilians negro/negra, but much rather "Moreno/Morena which is where the word originated and how they respect and glorify the Morenos/Morenas then other place like DR, PR start using it just so they can prove to the world that they are not racist or discriminate such a paradigm contradiction.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
It is something that has become psychologically embedded in Dominicans how they suck up to the white skin color to furthermore degrade their African ancestry which is why they tend to adopt and glorify the ways of brutal Euro Spania. You know what Rubi, keep your Spain, Dominican pride all you want since you have a right to do so and to continue to suck up to somebody because their skin complexions seem similar to what yours is like in the (Oye Mi Canto) song video... Much like some (Not all) of the racist Latin Communities claim Brazilian to be latinos under the same premises they have denied Haitians to be Afro-Latinos which are parallel contradictions. Hell latinos have been willing to try to claim Cape Verde Africans latinos if Cape Verde did not stand firm and reject their invitations , even though Cape Verde can be considered latinos if the same premises exist for Brazil and indeed yes Haiti.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Unlike DR given and living with the known fact that they share an Island with Haiti are the only ones who have not done much to reconcile with their inner Africanism or peace with Haiti as though that is the part they wish they never were or had any type of associations with. They would throw it away today any day if they could their African ancestral blood, and so they have tried
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Lwhf0ZuAE Not to say Haiti did not possibly ruled DR with an Iron fist when they ruled the whole Island; however, Haiti's ruling was never as barbaric and their occupying Dr was to deter any possible European invasion to come and enslave the Island period. Toussaint played the Europeans at their own hypocrisy and games
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
That is the thing, we as Dominicans can hide the atrocity and still sucking up to Spain and PR because in part and thanks to U.S. America and other European Countries bothPR and Spain are economically stable because they are what... In spain's case dependent of Europe and oh yeah in PR's case territory. One group of which that likes to have their cakes and eat it, too. Not knowing where to truly stand. PR will never be independent and will never have a sense of original identity because they sell themselves already no matter how much and over zealously they pretend to show pride. So why DR and Haiti can not feel lucky and appreciative of what we both have in common or not in common that we have something that PR and other US or great Britain territories will never have. Which is we are both free and being looked at by White people and European descents foreigners as a threat thus dividing us is their hope.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Oh, not entirely true because u think what's alleged to be anti-dominican sentiment in PR u think is actually anti-black huh... I wish Haitians can say or have that very same as excuses hidden behind the fact of Dominican racism and discrimination being committed towards them in DR.
Anti-Black, anti-Dominicans, so darn regardless. Point is, It goes to show and prove that for the very same basic reasons why Dominicans (Not all, mostly Rubirosa lol) are prejudice towards Haitians are the very same reasons another may be towards them. Gee, why would one's so called "cousins" be discriminative towards another "cousin"? Indeed PR is the only people to have much of any true Taino blood in them simply because most of the survived escaped Tainos had flown and took refuge there. As far s for Dominicans claiming much of any Taino blood has over exageratingly blown out of proportion and is quite a romanticized idealism to still further distant themselves from their African Ancestry.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Germany have later came to accept and recognized that they have committed the unthinkably genocide holocaust towards the jews, my father's descendants and have long apologize for it and paid great retribution and reparation to the now State of Israel and Poland. Germany is now the leading partners in promoting and advocating for Human Rights that the major Red Cross Headquarters are in Europe, principally Germany. Dominicans shoud know since most of the Human Rights Activist that are in DR today are from Europe and are generally Germans. So when has Spain, France and Portugal ever apologized for their atrocities towards the black race, much less, when has DR ever stepped forward to account for the genocide campaign of El Hefe Rafel Trujillo against the Haitian claiming their black blood and skin was a disease to the Dominican white prosperous intent he had for DR why he had even killed most of the Mereno Dominicans?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Lwhf0ZuAEFrom: United States, Smyrna, GA
Look, sucking up or flattering any white Europeans, the very Spain Dominicans worship so much and DR can slide their tongues up their "you know what" t all they want. Regardless if you are Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Dominican, Haitians or from anywhere where the African blood runs such as even Latin-America and Caribbean, a white man looks at you all, us all and sees only a colored men. So who are we Dominicans fooling?
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
I am not denying the new findings or old of genetic science that can trace back what one is or not. Good for Science and knowledge purpose to know. However, they can find that the entire world is African or white for all or most of us care. It is of no justified reasons to hide behind the pretext and falsehood of race division that a white man created for you to talk down, discriminate or belittled another man of color much less to say somebody as close to us Dominicans and Haiti. So what are Dominicans more close to of being, you mean to tell me Spain?
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Go ahead and capitalize on Haiti's misfortune today to say that they have been damned, but see that Spain itself is the poorest in the all well known Europe today and I suppose they too have been damned as well to serve as solace and consolation to all men of color who have been terrorized by those Europeans bastards for gold and their own imperialism gain, oh you bunch of people.
Call or say Haiti lack literacy all you wan, but there is a major difference with being a spineless ****** over simply not have a high rate of literacy in a Country. You great grandparents and mine may have not finish school many could say, but does that mean they were less educated when it came to basic human knowledge to function in their society?
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Go ahead my Dominicans, be Spain all you all want to, but also accept the traits of barbarisms and negativism as well that comes along with wanting to be Spain. Go ahead and confuse yourself or deny that you are worshiping a so called Euro-Spain who have annihilated almost an entire race which is the Taino race that you are also claiming to be today and took much pride of being than your African roots.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
many may ask: What's your problem HispanolanoYoSoy?
My problem is not that I came on here on this site to spill verbal diatribes against Dominicans. I am both part Dominican, Haitian and Jewish you fool. My problem is how most of you on here Dominicans have sat back and not report a guy like Rubirosa and others for their incendiary offensive remarks that are obviously divisive, racist and condescending down to core and nature of what is extremist anti-semitism sentiments and beliefs. I went even further to say or show that if Dominicans wants to claim to be so righteous into believing they are better humans than Haitians, why I do not see a epidemic chain reaction of Dominican Human Right activists advocating for the basic human rights owed to Haitians living in DR, much less try to even say assist Haiti in its crisis that it is now facing.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Which do you think would prove more humane and righteous to future generations of Dominicans and Haitians or much to the world that you have humanity; praising glory to Spain and racial divisiveness, or help your neighbor as biblically advised by Jesus? Look at Venezuela who does not even share the same Island with Haiti has been helping the Country in doing so much more than they should or expected of them as well as they have always recognize Haiti more as the one to have helped them in their struggles to ever become free of Euro-Spana enslavements. I am not religious, but it baffles me when I hear Dominicans claim to be very good devout Christians. Where is the Christianity in that, in down talking, exploiting your neighbor's misfortunes and conditions to prove or distant yourself from being connected to them more so than can be imagined No matter what, both nations drink water from the very same Riviere De L'Artibonite/ Rio Del Artibonito.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
My insulting my people which of whom I am both as well. So we both agree that insulting one another does not bring us any closer to peace. In fact you found my measly " you *** bunch of people" quite offensive nonetheless because indeed it may be viewed to be derogatory to many. Now, imagine how a Haitian would feel reading all kinds of racist, condescending remakes made by many Dominicans who come on here to talk down to Haitians and their conditions. I have followed your posts and I know you can be a better individual to mediate this room accordingly. So I am the all clown fool when yet you have not included Rubirosa in that realm of being the baffoon that he is for his often posted ignorance. Ahh I see the bias already. Just as state Jemesouviens as he/she stated how doubtful any Dominicans would say what they say to Haitians faces.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
I would rather much be to you an all-entertaining Clown and spread the words of empowering reconciliation and peace for a prosperous self-sufficient HISPANIOLA than to be part of the ones showing the differences that divides and deny themselves, us, as descendants of Africa. You see and much less understand the difference between me and you dear friend?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Lwhf0ZuAEFrom: United States, Smyrna, GA
All disgruntled disputes asides, let me ask you all some questions. If you as a Dominican take that $25 ferry boat ride that often leaves Punta Cana to PR and have a baby in PR, would your baby be denied a Puerto Rican US birth certificate? No. And when a Puerto Rican comes to DR and have a baby, does his or her baby gets denied a Dominican Birth certificate? Of course not.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
By the way, I go to Sosua and Puerto Plata often which is where my mother and grandmother are born and from my father's families own businesses in DR as well as Haiti which thankfully is helping the economy over there greatly believe it or not. Go ask around for the ROSENBERG. Also, yes, I do talk like that the way I do to those Dominicans who are racists towards Haitians or Haitians to Dominicans. So how are you open minded when you will not address Rubirosa's comments? Ha hahhh, I own a PC lol, not a laptop to pardon your ignorance lol. What you call your people are my people as well and who most of our people offends are still my people. I doubt you can say the same. What I can say is that you I have also accepted some of your posts and references with interest and studied them without bias and partial prejudice which is why I told you several times where my blend of true color stands. You have got to do a way better job at coming down on me while ignoring Rubirosa is all. Entiende?
Written by: arcatype , 21 Apr 2008 6:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Litsen mr.hispanolamo I could care less about what you think, the reality is this the Dominican Republic is a multi-racial country. is not like Haiti where 98% of the population is pure west african, so write all the B.S. that you want about dominicans denying their origins, dominicans dont deny their origin's. If we were so similar? today we be speaking about one country, not two thank god for that!!!!! Read this article about racism in haitian society from colonial times to the present.
http://www.binghamton.edu/fbc/dupuy.pdfFrom: United States, Smyrna, GA
So, why it is justified and does it happen so when a Haitian supposedly "In transition" (as Dominicans like to put it). A Haitian who has for many years resided in DR have a baby in DR, why is that baby then get denied Dominican birth rights? Now DR, due to pressure wants to introduce a Pink kind of certificate which in turns would still be discriminatory to Haitians because there is not a place in DR a Haitian would show that pink document to that will not automatically know that this baby is descendant of Haitians even when that baby was born in DR after years of his or her parents have lived in DR. One of the other ways to still be able to identifyingly be prejudice towards Haitians no matter what. Has Haiti ever denied a Dominican who has a baby in Haiti the Haitian birth certificates? No. Dominicans, show me my true color again; or better yet, show me yours Dominicans.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
95 % you self editing maniac. 95%. Get the fact right. And even if it was 98 %, the better because Haitians are not the ones denying people rights to native land birth citizenry to an innocent baby born onto a land when Dominicans do not reject the Birth cirtificate given their babies being born overseas if they trult have been living to their so call claim of the Articulos de nos constitucion hoy en la Republica Dominicana.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Yes indeed, the very same divisive racial tensions which both Haitians and Dominicans need to fix within each of their respective estates. Sin duda y exactemente!!! So when giving website for people to see the Haitian exposed racism, also give them one that shows the exposition of DR's as well and allow the people to do the compare and contrast instead of you imposing your bias, partial and prejudicial two cents into it.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
At least Haitians can bare the strength to come or go to Dominican blogs and read the condescending statements being posted by many racista Dominicans (Not all). But how often than most Haitians can Dominicans claim they have done the same? Maybe most Dominicans will say that I am more Haitian than I am Dominican, or maybe it is because without denial I am more humane and comprehensible to accept my African ancestry as a person of color than most Dominicans ever would. If you go to this website
http://www.PrevalHaiti.com many will see that I am more stern and firm to Haitians in empowering and encouraging them to become self-sufficient and as much as I have advocate greatly reconciliation and peace between both nations. You will find my posts under HispanolanoYoSoy or Wilgeens Rosenberg. Digame, mas de los Espana glorificar dias y cuentos que nos Dominicanos admirar tanto. Quiero saber the contradiction why do Dominican singers like Zacharia sings tanto about las Morenitas Buenas?
Written by: arcatype , 21 Apr 2008 7:05 PM
From: Dominican Republic
rom1804 The reason Haiti is in bad shape has nothing to do with its past, it's an ineffective goverment ruled by corrupt officials in cohoots with mulatto elites and a few foreign born businessmen that love enslaving the majority black population of haitians. So you could thank all the leftist organizations in the web and in print for feeding you false propaganda and you believing all the hype! keep on believing?
Written by: arcatype , 21 Apr 2008 7:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I wish i can put the link but it comes out incomplete, but if you have yahoo as your search engine write on the search pane why haiti is so poor. Read the first entry the article is written by a haitian.
Written by: arcatype , 22 Apr 2008 1:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic
good night!
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
One wishes such amount of attention can be directed a little bit more pro-actively with neighboring Latin-American Countries in our own Hemisphere. As evidently the US has spent by far way more money in Middle East affairs in one week than we do in our surrounding Latin-American Countries combined in many years. Leave alone our very own continent, the United States of America where gas is at an all time highest and continuing to go up. Let us not forget our very own home front of America, where much is needed to fix the economy as gas price is skyrocketing. Let us not forget Africa where much dire help is needed as well on so many fronts such as HIV/AIDS and so forth.
Written by: arcatype , 22 Apr 2008 2:59 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Litsen exhale through your nose and then release your breath through your mouth check this out when you get a chance <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="
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Dominican Economy gets a boost as Haitians come to the border to buy scarce commodities!
You see it is all in the spin of the language!
Your opinions are so "Mentally challenged" and "Disabled"
I think you are very correct. This is a forum to respectfully and intelligently discuss real current issues. If no meeting of the mind can be achieved then at the minimum a means to educate ourselves a little more. Unfortunately many of us allow our civility and intellect to be hijacked by our strong passionate opposition to certain topics or issues. That’s why on occasion it is good to be reminded to breath take a break and have a perspective about the real issues and what’s at the core. Thank you very much for mentioning this.
our country.
It's funny How You guys get in touch with each other to publish your opinions and then try to tarnish everybody else against Your haitian agenda.
josean: How is one border town lifting the economy of the nation?... Remember that dominicans are already adjusting to the new lower prices just the same as they have adjusted to the 2am no beer rule.
My point was not related to the economics of the issue.
Rather with the sensationalist nature of the THE HEADLINE, which although I am sure was not the intent of DT, it could lend itself to the Haitian phobes and racists concluding they are coming to invade us. Especially this part "spurs border crossing after Dominican abundance."
Remember there are people who think that if a Haitian breaths near the border, they are conspiring to suck up all of the oxygen from the Dominican Republic.
Bencardonazo and ladronazo: Good point for both of you since you too belong to the same group that is living in denial and since You too are not "DOMINICANS", you have not right to "Disrespect
our country.
"
Ms Rubirosa you can do better than that, I totally agree with both gentleman above. You can have your opinion, which I respectfully disagree with, nevertheless that does not stop you from being reasonable, your commentary was petty and childish. Interestingly enough anyone who do not share your narrow minded opinion are not Dominican or uneducated?? I got news for you there are alot of well educated Dominicans.
These poor folks are figthing to survive , and put food at their table yet they have an agenda !!. Can
you perhaps educate the forum, and explain to us what is the Haitian agenda ? Dont worry I will wait ....
Remember few months ago when "Sonia Pierre" staged her "Campaign" to discredit
Dominican Republic.
This is the agenda of your "Smart" people, That's what You always brag about it, speaking more languages than us, that We copy from your culture, that We abuse You and discriminate You
and We should let your people do as They please coming to our land.
You got Your answer...............
" JRRubirosa, 16 Apr 2008 3:55 PM
the agenda of abusing our country by posting lies on all these forums regarding Your own personal objectives and which people like you want us to live in denial.
Remember few months ago when "Sonia Pierre" staged her "Campaign" to discredit
Dominican Republic."
UNQUOTE
You live in Lala Land Ms Rubi , and again your posting depict flagrant misunderstanding of facts and fictions, which can only be attributed to your delusionary mind couple with arrogance, and ignorance, this is indeed extremely revealing for someone living in the USA , take heed!
I'm lying this time right???
Waiting for Your answer, how come your people see what is convenient for Your own good.
What about Sonia Pierre getting people from other countries to get to DR and abuse the freedom that She had to gain notorierity and international awards on detriment of our "motherland"
JRRubirosa, 16 Apr 2008 5:34 PM
Antonioj: So Sonia Pierre discrediting our country??? I'm lying this time right???
Unquote
Any set agenda have a leader, any idea who can it be ? (lol) frankly you are very incoherent , rumbling and difficult to follow. I promised do to my best to understand you.
You a are total contrast to Mr Lautaro, I wish there are more of him on both side of the island, please learn from the best (dime y como esta tu vida carinosa).
Good luck,
Specially lying to the UN team so She could gain international recognition..............
Your people enjoy to play smart to Your own benefit and turn a blind eye to reality right on Your face.
Like somebody already said to me not to follow Your non sense opinions since You are very
sensitive people and don't have the guts to take "Criticism" to develop in a "Professional"
manner.
Regardless what I said to You, Your people and Your civilization Will never get the point to see
things in a "Real Perspective" manner and time.
Good luck with the UN "Blue Helmets" in Your country and don't know how They can have patience to be there dealing with the BS going on forever.
In my earlier entry on 15 Apr 2008 12:47 PM I clearly indicated my agreement with regards to this site being an education forum. My comments did not make any mention or reference to support or condemn points of views towards Haitians. Nonetheless there are many who read but don't have the cognitive skills and ability to comprehend and interpret the words written.
Now, to answer the ill remarks which could only be attributed to lack of knowledge i.e ignorance and possibly lack of maturity, in its purest form. I will state the following:...
Written by: JRRubirosa, 17 Apr 2008 12:33 AM
From: United States
Antonioj: simple question is what do You think about Sonia Pierre international defamation against Dominican Republic????
"
Rubi, I am not very familiar with the all story, from my point of view there have been some manipulation from the aid agency to portray DR in a negative way. Alot of spin there, Sonia was born and raised in DR from Haitian families.
“The Current Colonization From Abroad”
By Wilgeens Rosenberg
The external domination of Haiti's resources and political processes mostly by U.S. interests is so deep and pervasive that no autonomy remains in the Country. It has become way too common of the Haitian people to place blame on the Haitian Government which by all means and understandably have not been stern nor firm in engaging into more pro-active efforts to properly represent the impoverished Nation.
Haiti now has no arms ban over it which has long been lifted. Now, why the preparation and training for a new Haitian Armed Forces is not underway is beyond anyone's guess. The regular Haitian Armed Forces (FAdH) - Army, Navy, and Air Force - have been demobilized but still exist on paper unless they are constitutionally abolished. Thus, even if such effort to reinstate the Haitian Army were to or would have been started by having the UN foreign troops that are present in the Country right now to assist Haiti in attending to such goal, this would have brought so much prospect of change into the Country. However and unsurprisingly enough, the Haitian Government has expressed no intent concerning that possibility.
Haiti's need to inspire ideals of nationhood, solidarity and civic duty; to include the social, economical as well as the political improvement to uplift Haiti's redemptive mission in the world from constant chronic instability and vulnerability to outside or foreign interventions relies on the Country's military integrity in defense of respect and total national sovereignty. Simply because, if anything, these words should still mean something to Haiti and its people: "En me renversant, on a abattu que le trunc de l'arbre de la liberte des Noirs; il repousesra par les racines parce qu'elles sont profondes et nombreuses" - Toussaint Louverture.
So, as history repeats itself in recapturing or seeing newly modern invasions or occupations that exploit with systematically corrupt and handicap policies that keep defeating other nations' paths to self sufficiency and aim to incapacitate furthermore oppressed people; then so shall the innate right of the people of Haiti to become united
(Sorry, most got cut off).
So, as history repeats itself in recapturing or seeing newly modern invasions or occupations that exploit with systematically corrupt and handicap policies that keep defeating other nations' paths to self sufficiency and aim to incapacitate furthermore oppressed people; then so shall the innate right of the people of Haiti to become united in the name of nation as a nation in reliving Haiti's true meaning to the National devise of “L'Union Fait La Force.”
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Mr HispanolanoYoSoy, you right on !! you hit the nail right on the head, amazing commentary
good read, thank you for bringing your prospective to the forum.
The Dominican Republic would have been a better nation without that problematic country next to us. Constant conficts, massive deforestation, ETC, ETC, .... that's Haiti, who needs that?
H.A.J - Hispanolanos Ahora Juntos: It is a movement and revolution for peace.
Then D.H.A - Dominicans & Haitians Alliance.
Also H.P.C: 2020 - Haiti Project Code: 2020
Featuring H.P.C: 2020 - Hispanola Projecto Codigo: 2020
CarlosDiaz, 18 Apr 2008 1:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic
That's the thing with Haitians, they always blaming others. Haitians are always playing "the victim", and looking outside for somebody else to blame. If is not the French, is the Americans, or the Dominicans, or the UN, but never the Haitians. Haitians are "Saints" that have never done anything wrong. More than 200 years of the same thing. It is time for the Haitians to start seeing themselves reflected backwards on a mirror.
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Some real hard truth in there Carlos, but it's little bit more complicated than that, I would disagree with your second comment, it's uncall for and does not add anything....worth debating
Written by: Lautaro, 18 Apr 2008 5:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I have a question for you: Do you, by chance, know about a blogger over here with the name Perception? I'm asking this because he has taken the liberty of posting some of your verses on more than one article over the site.
After the ouster of Jean-Claude Duvalier in 1986, a series of US-sponsored military juntas implemented neoliberal policies, slashing tariffs, and allowing cheap imports from the US and the Dominican Republic to flood the Haitian market. Trade liberalisation meant that food imports undercut local farmers, who were denied subsidies, or the means to invest in their production, killing the Haitian food industry, and driving the farme
Let me just post something interesting, Mr Lautaro do you have any comments ?
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080420/focus/focus2.html
Having long lived in isolation, Haiti had always cultivated a very high level of self-sufficiency, especially when it came to food production. Haiti was once self-sufficient in staples like rice and sugar, and the peasants had their indigenous black pigs, which were literally their piggy bank. US-backed dictators like the Duvaliers allowed US interests to initiate the deforestation of Haiti, and to destroy the local pig industry.
I was not blaming the US, I wanted to point out an interesting article. From my point of view mainly Haitians politicians and Haitians should bear most of the blame for their present states
but one can not deny the effect of external forces such as: (imf world bank, NGO ect..)
Mr arctype you are very eloquent, here's a quick crash course in Haitian contemporary history, it's a sweet and short good read .
Enjoy.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-4502611.html
Mr Lautaro , again I could not have phrase it any better, on behalf of the forum thank you for keeping us illuminated.
We are poor YES but at least we are free. Sorry can't say the same for DR. you are still Spain's little b@#$es.
arcatype, 20 Apr 2008 5:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
rom1804 your a waste of time, long live Spain!!!!! and long live la Republica Dominicana and it's racial trinity of Indigenous, Spanish, African ancestries!!!!!
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Excellent Mr aractype for acknowledging the African ancestries
Que viva Haiti and the Dominican in peace and Harmony with each other, However most educated Dominicans and myslef will not share your quote here " long live spain " I think you are being mistaken, sound like patronizing to me.
I agree partially with your argument, however I think it's simply wrong and patronizing to your former master, I am Haitian with Cuban heritage, I am very familiar with the spanish culture
you will not hear cuba, mexico, venezuela ect ..calling spain the mother land or long live spain, for that matter.
Perhaps depending in what context , this is a ill conceive notion and does not make any sense, dig a little bit more
Oh yeah and during those 200 years the Spaniards were just living like Happy Gilmores in perfect harmony with the natives there were no slavery involve at all on Hispaniola yeah sure. Oh no no Dominicans are not descendant of slaves you guys have always been up there with the rest of the white world, Even today all Dominicans are treated with the utmost respect and dignity throughout the whole world because thats the way it has always been and always will be RIGHT?
GTFOH.
Don't think for one second because the UN is currently in our country that we are defeated its the other way around baby they can stay in Haiti for 1000 years they will never own us that's why they are trying to do that's the reason why they keep coming back. Its not because we can't govern ourselves it more like we don't want to play by their rules. Sorry can't say the same about DR they have you people in the palm of their hands.
Anti-Black, anti-Dominicans, so darn regardless. Point is, It goes to show and prove that for the very same basic reasons why Dominicans (Not all, mostly Rubirosa lol) are prejudice towards Haitians are the very same reasons another may be towards them. Gee, why would one's so called "cousins" be discriminative towards another "cousin"? Indeed PR is the only people to have much of any true Taino blood in them simply because most of the survived escaped Tainos had flown and took refuge there. As far s for Dominicans claiming much of any Taino blood has over exageratingly blown out of proportion and is quite a romanticized idealism to still further distant themselves from their African Ancestry.
Call or say Haiti lack literacy all you wan, but there is a major difference with being a spineless ****** over simply not have a high rate of literacy in a Country. You great grandparents and mine may have not finish school many could say, but does that mean they were less educated when it came to basic human knowledge to function in their society?
My problem is not that I came on here on this site to spill verbal diatribes against Dominicans. I am both part Dominican, Haitian and Jewish you fool. My problem is how most of you on here Dominicans have sat back and not report a guy like Rubirosa and others for their incendiary offensive remarks that are obviously divisive, racist and condescending down to core and nature of what is extremist anti-semitism sentiments and beliefs. I went even further to say or show that if Dominicans wants to claim to be so righteous into believing they are better humans than Haitians, why I do not see a epidemic chain reaction of Dominican Human Right activists advocating for the basic human rights owed to Haitians living in DR, much less try to even say assist Haiti in its crisis that it is now facing.
One wishes such amount of attention can be directed a little bit more pro-actively with neighboring Latin-American Countries in our own Hemisphere. As evidently the US has spent by far way more money in Middle East affairs in one week than we do in our surrounding Latin-American Countries combined in many years. Leave alone our very own continent, the United States of America where gas is at an all time highest and continuing to go up. Let us not forget our very own home front of America, where much is needed to fix the economy as gas price is skyrocketing. Let us not forget Africa where much dire help is needed as well on so many fronts such as HIV/AIDS and so forth.