that is disingenuous on the part of the Haitians .....No one that is no one has as much of a stake in Haiti and its well being as the DR......To act as if the DR is meddling in their affairs is hooey....the International community instead of criticizing the DR should help the Haitians help themselves to resolve this issue and feed and clothe this unfortunate country and at least help rebuild it to the economic level it was at before they destroyed it with misguided politics

gouletcolonial,

"disingenous" this is a big word even for you are you sure you understand the meaning of it.

you for example would use the less decorous "liar" Jimi....because you can spell it correctly

I beleive you should call it nationalistic pride.

Dominicans would feel the same way if another country asked for aid for the DR.

I'm glad he did ask. Because if he didn't then they would probably say the Dominicans did nothing to help.

I will not call it disingenuous on the part of Haitians; I like Lionel approaches overall, this one was simply a little lip singing on his part, when DR a developing country face with their own problem, NOT even a donor country.

Haitians have all the rights objecting a country asking for help on their behalf, just like DR should.

I understand where the Haitians are coming from but at the same time its nice to see that Fernandez is concerned about the plight of our people. He earned a few points with me.

Disrespectful and undiplomatic, however smart and blunt. This is the way I would characterize this. Haiti is in need and has made it known in its own words to the world. Haitians have taken the streets to protest and the government has lost the battle. The Haitian governments have always requested a cancellation of the debt in order to help Haiti feed its own people. The FAO meeting in Rome came about because of protests initiated by Haiti, Egypt and other countries. It is disengenuous from DR to pretend to speak in the name of Haiti iin order to attract attention to their intent.

Disengenuous? What would they gain for asking for help for their neighbor?

Haiti will always go backwards as a failed nation, narrow minded peeple with a 18tn century mentality.

"
Written by: jtava, 16 Jun 2008 11:46 AM
From: United States
Disengenuous? What would they gain for asking for help for their neighbor?
"


Your question sum it up. You are either naïve, or an idiot if you can not understand the politic behind Lionel comment. This is a perfect PR and can not hurt, but help him nationally.

1. Appear to care about Haitians; this should not cost him a penny (some Haitians may agree)
2. Show to Dominicans that, he’s trying to address some of the Haitians issue.

So you are saying that he cannot be genuinely concerned about the well being of Haiti? Could the problem be that radicalists like you only look for the negative in everything. What does what Haitians think of him matter? So he is not addressing Hatian issues? Aren't the Hatian issues Deforestation and Political corruption? Maybe he should be an ahole and say. We have our own problems. Hatians Smatians right? Would that have been better? Or would you rather he say nothing at all. Duh. I know that APPEARING to have some sort of heart and showing concern to your neighbor would help him politically. So what. Maybe he is actually concerned and figures that him speaking would do Haiti good since noone listens to the corrupt poloticians that run that country................But that's just what I think.

Personally, I don't question Fernandez Reyna's motives; Rather, I'm puzzled by the response from the Haitian officials who protested the neighboring country's President request for international aid. The Haitian economy is in shambles, without any hope of ever rising out of its dephts. How can any self respecting, conscious person living in Haiti not see the ramifications of its dire poverty, when it also affects the other part of the island???
The massive ill-eagle infiltrations of thousands of destitute 'cousins' looking for a better living in D.R. has traditionally aggravated the neighbor's economy. When there were huge "Zafras", Haitian brazeros would be a bargain for owners of the Ingenios Azucareros; But, when droves of hungry people make a mad dash for the border without hope of employment, the situation is not the same. It's a new day. The D.R. has enough problems on its own without the massive invasion of poor, hungry, destitute people. Remember the "2" occupations???

Yeah that too Arsenio.

people think that the government will always be the solution! , NO!! the people, ALL!! ( Hatians) are the ones that need to take there part on fixing there destroyed country.. lazy people...

"Written by: jtava, 16 Jun 2008 12:47 PM
From: United States"

You are simply missing the point, your failed intellect, and your lack of sophistication is clearly evident. I was only answering your question, however I am puzzled that you are calling me a radical.

What nobody says or dare to look at is the fact that much of the blame for Haiti's current situation lies in the set of economic liberalization measures that the Clinton admin. forced Aristide to implement as a condition for restoring him into power, measures that would lead Haiti from being almost self sufficient in agricultural staples (specially rice) to being an economy wholly dependent of agricultural importations in order to feed its population. Very much like the structural adjustment measures that the DR had to implement in order to get in the good graces of the "Washington Consensus", and which ended up very much dismantling part of the agricultural sector of the DR, for example, the production of staples like maize simply disappeared, because the sudden opening of the DR would expose them to the subsidized competition from developed countries, and considering the unprotected state of a large part of the agricultural sector on Latin America, you can imagine the results.

that's amazing coming from someone who lives in a resort that was most likely built by Haitians.

"that is disingenuous on the part of the Haitians"

gouletcolonial... I thought you'd be happy that haiti is taking matters into their own hands.

Oh OK. I see that it makes you feel better to attempt to diminish people. That's fine. I will let you be happy with that. I didn't miss the point. I know it looks good for him to be a humanitarian to his neighbor country. But when granzepon says "It is disengenuous from DR to pretend to speak in the name of Haiti iin order to attract attention to their intent. " He doesn't say Leonel but DR. As if Dominicans as a whole have some sort of hidden agenda. I'm sure he didn't speak in the name of Haiti. But as a concerned neighbor. Besides, if Haiti doesn't get help it would affect DR. There would be more people coming over. That would affect us.

I said radicalist because I can tell by the way you answered that you think someone is out to get you all the time. That's why you speak the way you do. That's why you attempt to belittle others.

The Haitian Progressive Parliamentary Confederation (CPP), is much of the problem that face that country, those are the guys that have all the power, and dine and drink while the majority of the population have to leave the country in order to get a decent education and basic health care. Right- on Leonel keep the pressure on the industrial world to help that fragile democracy and the hell with those vividores.

If there is an independent country who will help monitor the aid then that makes it harder for Haiti Gov officials to steal the proceeds. Is this the first time Haiti would get aid? No, of course not! Then where is the fruit of all the past aid on an cumulative basis? In the pockets of officials. Where is the former President of Haiti? Where are his bank accounts located? Now, you are getting the scenario.

This country is actually worse than the RD and its seems the RD corrupt system is headed full-steam ahead in the direction of the Haitian model. Wow! Que Vida!

juan_de_eeuu@hotmail.com

Haiti it responsible for it's own future, It's like the same story over and over THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS that haiti is a poor country. And it's just a brick alway from total starvation.......But at the same time every country is tired of the hearing the same misery of these bunch of LAZY PEOPLE.

?HAITIANS DO YOU WANT TO EAT??????????? WELL GET YOUR LAZY ASS TO WORK!!!!!!

Leonel, please dont waste your time trying to help these people.......... They deserve to be in the position their in.

Written by: DONOTFLYAMERICANAIRLINESDR, 17 Jun 2008 12:03 AM
From: United States

Let’s follow the same logic, let's the president of Haiti or Venezuela have a speech and ask the international community for debt relief for DR.

I think DR will see it as help as well, I would imagine you believe in the summer gas tax holiday

Antonio not a good simile since the DR is not yet .....a basket case under martial law with its only economy being the black market and the majority of the population verging on starvation while being Marauded by lawless gangs of armed thugs......not a good comparison sorry

"Written by: gouletcolonial, 17 Jun 2008 7:41 AM
From: Canada"
response to your comment above

How much weight does it really add? It’s pure politics when DR is not even a G8 nation and will not be at the table. I think the evident assistance DR should be credited with is probably the amount of Haitian migrants they have accepted, however begging in our name can not be realistically seen as help, quite the contrary can be seen as offensive.

he was begging in the interests of the DR....... its interests are unfortunately tied to Haiti and its interests

"gouletcolonial, 17 Jun 2008 9:26 AM
From: Canada
he was begging in the interests of the DR....... its interests are unfortunately tied to Haiti and its interests"

Excellent point, I failed to see that angle

at sometime in the future I would hope that the word unfortunately can be eliminated and changed to fortunately.....the best of intentions for both countries

Hungry and Proud !
Did I miss anything ???

How do you help people that dont want to help themselves, and let alone get angry at those that try. I just wonder what the rest of the world will say, when our government just gets fed up with haiti and just blocks the border out from anyone going in and out. I wonder what garbage people will say then..."Oh the racism has gone to far" " Oh this is an outrage!" . I say the outrage is people invading our nation at night, and of course the corrupt officals on both sides of the island that are making it happen. But like the americans say "Whatever"... let the haitians cry about everything and we just continue on with our lives. Amazing how two nations on the same island end up today on two different sides of the road.

I hope permanant victimization has not become part of the Haitain mentality, where you don't even try to improve the national situation because outside forces will stop you. I fail to see how keeping Haiti poor helps the "big countries". A prosporous Haiti can only be a good market for export as well as a source of low cost labor (not as it currently is though). I don't think the U.S. is punishing Haiti for daring to kill the idea of "white supremacy" though it had , for most of the 19th century. The right kind of aid, that which would help Haiti become self sufficent in agriculture, a modern health care system, a comprehensive literacy / education and lastly but most important, assistance (from the UN) in good governance. The saying "give a man a fish, he'll eat for one day", "teach a man to fish, he'll never go hungry" is still true.

BUT Zak325 "give a man a fish, he'll eat for one day", "teach a man to fish, he'll never go hungry" is true. but for teaching that man how o fish if the conditions are okay I will teach you how to fish but when you come back to shore with a boat full of fish I will take 99.9% of the fish and I will leave you with only one. Why should the man wants to do all that work if at the end of all that he will only get 1 fish. Haiti is producing a lot more than what its said by the media or the economic gurus. Like Rice they come with their NGO's they use our good lands to cultivate they harvest our crops ship nearly all of it overseas, wrap them in nice little sacks and they sell us that same product to us at a much higher rate. and they do that to most countries but Haiti has been refusing to work in those conditions for years. that's one of the reason were are always villainfy because we refuse to play the game. and I'm sure some one will delete this post soon after because .....Oh yeah I

Room1804:

So who Do You want to blame on Your latest comment???

I'm not looking to blame no one I'm just saying. It's all good baby Haiti will keep fighting we've been doing it for more than 200 years now and we will continue to fight until we get to do things our way. They can throw at us as many bony fish as they want we will take it but don't expect us to be your lap dog for it because we Haitians know better. You know what they say " Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven.

DR a humanitarian to its neighbor, yeah right... So is that why their denial of Immigrants grandchildren who are born in DR are denied their Dominican Rights? Is that why their constant discriminative attacks on Haitians prosper so well in DR?

It is clearly that begging for Haiti is in interest of DR. How do you demand Aid for a Country you have not even tried to established better political ties and diplomacy with in terms of foreign policies and human rights and constantly allowing your citizens to bash, lash and hate the people of that neighboring Country?

DR's policies has always aimed at denigrating Haiti and its people, so now all of a sudden they have Haiti's interest at hand. Yeah okay, sure. Is this why there has been no improvement of those supposedly "In Transition Haitians" who have had their Children and Grand Children denied Birth Certificates and Rights to the point why a Baseball talented Haitian-Dominican boy was denied his own record so that he had the chance to go play in some US Baseball league in the United States who offered him $350, 000 in a pre-agreement contract?

Negmawon:

Welcome MR creole, homework for You regarding the supposedly Haitian-dominican,

Read both constitutions (Dominican and Haitian) and find out why He didn't get it already.

Then please "Shut up" If You don't know what You are talking about or You are playing to be "forrest gump"

"That is disingenuous on the part of the Haitians... No one that is no one has as much of a stake in Haiti and its well being as the DR... To act as if the DR is meddling in their affairs is hooey....the International community instead of criticizing the DR should help the Haitians help themselves to resolve this issue and feed and clothe this unfortunate country and at least help rebuild it to the economic level it was at before they destroyed it with misguided politics"

Yeah sure, DR has a steak in Haiti alright; that you are not lying because they have for a long time getting money on behalf of the entire Island when they used the word "Hispanola" until it was later discovered that Haiti was not getting any contribution from all those former Aid. Oh sure, Haiti is a Latin Country only when it benefits Latin Country like DR yet continue on denying Haitians as Latino or Afro-Latino Country that it is. Sure, great hypocritical paradox huh?

Yeah sure right... No reason you or DR could possibly have to ever constitute this act of discriminative act as justifiable or right in denying a kid his dream.

Especially if you are not allowing this kid's dream to be realized in your own Country he was born in. Anything else short of letting this kid go to have a good chance to provide for his family in the future still does not cut it. In fact DR should have be glad and welcome this kid to leave since repatriation of Haitians is what they are preaching. So all of a sudden, this kid is not allowed to leave DR to go to a better Country? Sure, go ahead if this allow you to sleep at night.

I know about both Constitutions of both Countries and I am of both Dominican and Haitian blood, but hey you want them in or yo want them out. Well, this kid was getting out, but who kept him in? The only intent DR has for this kid is intentional discriminative malice and envious that it was not a small Dominican who got this deal.

lol I give Negmawon another 15 days and he will be censored just like most Haitians are on this site. Nothing that Rubi and Francisco type ever get deleted no matter how far they pushed the envelope but as soon as a Haitian starts returning the favor by calling names suddenly his posts starts getting deleted. and when I create a blog where we can discuss our issues without censorship most Dominicans don't show up. Why don't you come to my blog and face the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Real Men and Women only if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

http://thehaitiandominicanrepublic.blogspot.com/

JRRubirosa,

That's funny!!! LOL LOL LOL

Great advice for mr. creole.

Had it been the remarks of those they suspect to be Haitians or someone else's remarks that did not seem to be the least in favor and accordance with DR or Dominicans those members and their posts, comments and remarks get either banned or deleted. This site needs to stop allowing those insult comments about Haitians... So who those rules really were meant for on this site if it is not being enforced equally for everybody? Hmm, the word Haitians came to mind. This site is promoting, fueling as well as feeding the negativism in sentiments as well as this site is as much part of the problem of the Island and not the solution.

Hey I thought I was the only one from the Z's man. Welcome to Zimbabwe "Easy"

Z man whats happening with your soulmate Roberto Mugabe ...he really has democracy happening over there

The one thing I don't understand is, What are are these "Haitian-Centric" (edited) views coming from? This is supposed to be Domincan Today; Not "Haitians in your Face". Can you say Ferrocarril?
I check the different stories and their comments, they are all 'chock full' of Haitians (pseudo-dominicans) huffing and puffing about this that or the other. Where do these people think they are in a Haitian Forum? Not for nothing, I like Haitian people, and have had many, many such friends. But, frankly I don't see where they get off, giving opinions about things that really don't apply to them.
When it comes to International help for Haiti; It's an occupied nation, mainly because of the mayhem and chaos that dominates that nation. They need desperate help. But, don't come to 'us' with your hard luck story, and an atitude! Please don't bring that mumbo-jumbo here, mon nege! Cousin Mauvais! There's a nice "Hatien Aujordhui" Forum somewhere pour vous. Why can't we all get along!

I am so impressed and in agreement with your reply above... That is exactly it. I do not know why others have not seen it your way like this before... Sure oh sure, you are radically right. There is not a slight sense of prejudice in anything you had to say because everything you said were politely appropriate and concisely respectful that it has to remain uncontestedly to be "the" truth that we bow to your cleverness and wisdom we lack to comprehend. We are grateful for your supposedly constructive criticisms and we applaud you so. We are not worthy of your graceful explanations oh great ones!!!

If the politicians that represent Haiti don't speak out on behalf of their own people, then I see nothing wrong with another nation doing so. I'm sure if you ask most Haitians if they would welcome international aid; they'd be very receptive to the idea since their own government fails to provide for them. For those who criticize the DR's defense of its own sovereignity; I'd like to hear what ideas you have to offer to help the beleguered neighbor to the west. Once again, it is not the DR's responsibility to take care of Haiti. It is an international problem and should be resolved by the international community. If they don't want the DR to ask for help on their behalf then they should keep all their citizens inside their own territory and feed them so they don't have to go beg across the border. They go to France to protest about the DR's "so called" poor treatment of Haitians but they don't hold France accountable for their problems - the root of where it all started.