Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 11:41 AM
From: Iran, Zähedän
Although I agree that immigration laws should be enforced, I am however disturbed by the persistent racists overtones this particular issue seems to have. Imagine if the countries where Dominican settle (often times illegally), mirrored the Laws and views of the Dominican Republic? Millions of Dominican-Yorks would be deported, harassed and otherwise treated as one step above cattle...
From: Dominican Republic
Damn, this guy is really angry
From: Canada
What a load of racist vitriol. The "hoteliers" would gladly hire them to build their hotels then complain once they have the property completed. Haitians wouldn't go there to begin with if Dominicans themselves would do the construction. Of course, that's beneath them and only suited for a Haitian. Catch22!
From: United States
watch this thread receive 5000 postings!!!!
Written by: Jander, 27 Aug 2008 11:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Nothing racist here just the plain truth, sometimes the truth isn't pretty.
It is an eyesore and the same as in California with the illegal homeless Mexicans
But they need to control this and create decent living conditions for the workers.
They say they can't control them after they get off work, well thats to be expected they have no where to go. Put up an area with latrines showers and shelter away from the main tourist area's.
No one wants to deal with this social problem when they are on vacation..
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Current goverment is a bunch of people without stamina, will, credibility or "Cojones" to do things by the book.
We can't allow this massive "People tsunami" to destroy the image and business in Punta Cana just to please ONG"S and everybody else.
Seems to be that the FFAA will have to act sooner than later before the "Balcanization" occur.
"Where is the president?????
Written by: ny4life, 27 Aug 2008 12:12 PM
From: United States, New York, NY
Nothing racist here just the plain truth, sometimes the truth isn't pretty.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 12:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic
This is what im talking about, these people are practically invading the Dominican Republic. We need massive deportations, 2 million haitians and counting. We need a wall now! and we need to militarize the border or we wont have a country left. Look at the hell hole that Haiti is today no tree's no infrastructure that's coming to us. These people are natural born D*E*S*T*R*O*Y*E*R*S.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
In Punta Cana there’s another concept because there’s a vision of what they to be done and they do it. But not here," Veloz said, and asks” What has the government given to Punta Cana? Nothing. What Punta Cana has done, it has done alone, we are a sort of orphan, orphans of living parents, because the government is the pappy, and does nothing.".........this guy is absolutely right Rainieri and Co. delivered a dream with no government or very little assistance.....They have no power outages
Written by: BASTA, 27 Aug 2008 12:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs
And where are the Dominicans? 176th Street.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 1:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic
And where are the haitians? in Flatbush, Brooklyn.
From: Haiti
The tone of this article is giving the impression that haitians are sitting around loitering. Where are the dominicans? The fact is haitians have literally built Punta Cana Bavaro area. Another mans garbage is another mans treasure. They pay rent, buy food, and generate money in that region. Instead of distorting the facts this guy should say we have used them for cheap labour and no want them out because they are economically growing. Immigration should be regulated but the dominican elite have benefited from this and will only do things during elections. Where the natives. Oh they are at Miches waiting for the next yola to Puerto Rico and off th 176 and Broadway to do the same thing undocumented haitians are doing in there native land. Hustle and Bustle.. Why aren't dominicans taking these jobs? Where are they? If they decide to deport haitians on the east watch DR's tourist take a nose dive straight to the drug dropping fields..
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Aug 2008 1:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Let's make a bet, dread and Jabao. How many posts do you think this article will get at the end of the day?
From: United States
i said 5000 before it was all beaten to death. surely, by midnight, i would say 50 or so.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Aug 2008 1:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Well, I find that wager to be reasonable, dread, although it might be less, considering that Rubi's counterpart, rom1804, has been officially banned from the site. Maybe 40 at midnight.
From: United States, Brooklyn
Am beginning to believe that DR will become soon an extension of Haiti!!! The facts speak for themselves... and our government does nothing.... They don't care...
God forgive me but if DR becomes Haitianized to the point of no return.... I will forget DR and never return!
From: United States
yes, rom was good for maybe 15 or so, all by himself. but, we are moving along smoothly so far. 40 is realistic
From: Haiti
Lautaro I bet you that it going to be the Record breaker on DT. This topic will veer to 1844, boyer,trujillo, sin numero de cosas.. Debemos responder en español tu sabes la mayoría no puede expresarse bien en este idioma. Este arti-culo es interesante. Este señor debe plantear propuestas para desviar el flujo de haitianos indocumentados hacia otras áreas en este caso Punta Cana/Bavaro. Este articulo me muestra que los haitianos son gente pujante que hacen los trabajos que los "algunos" dominicanos no quieren hacer. ¿Donde está los nativos? Definitivamente hay un dilema migratorio pero el gobierno no quiere resolverlo y 60 % de los dominicanos quieren irse del pais
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 2:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic
As long as Haiti remains idle and illiterate the problem will never end, the international community has lost trust in haiti's goverment. Then again i ask myself what goverment? D.R. is at the brunt of the storm, Leonel is a weak president period. Militarize the border and coastline, massive deportations, create laws making it a crime if you attempt a second time in crossing the border. Money can be allocated for this endeavor, the thing is are people wiling to enforce the law?
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Jabao-Haitian:
So the 1,000,000 Dollar $$$$ question is why if Dominicas are illiterate, stupid and lazy as you express in your latest comments , your country and your people are the ones living in the 18 century??
You try to be educated, decent and diplomatic sometimes but at the end like somebody call you, your true colors show, We don't need your cheap rhetoric and teachings when in reality the Haitian people are the mediocre no us.
From: Haiti
Arkatype what law? The dominican elite is interested in building towers for foreign investors aka drug traffickers and metros for dom-yorks like you to think that the country is developed mean while education lacks and the eletricity problem seems to be getting worse. Why not send back the illegals from you neigbhorhood and the rest of the world and have them work in the tourist zone after all they should have acquired the foreign language, NOT and you can be the maestro in charge of the construction with a yankee cap and timbaland boots playing bachata & regueton. Why not come back here and do something then talk gibberish from the tight apartment on 180st and Dyckman...and get your flag off the window that's a fire hazard.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Aug 2008 2:20 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Jejejej, te entiendo, Jabao. Es la misma lloradera y gritadera de siempre (making a mocking face): the haitians are coming, the haitians are coming!!, LOL. Si ellos no quieren que los haitianos vengan y los "invadan" ¿Para qué diablos están de graciosos ofreciendoles empleo tan alegremente? Sheesh, que pendejos están estos tipos.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 2:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
JR RUBIROSA Ignore that toilet bowl full of caca, everything that guy post is coming from the dream state he finds himself in.
From: Haiti
Rubi mi pana full..no te entiendo..somos en la RD..donde nojotro ablamo epanyol..deja esa bayna..showing off yur ingles..diablo..and you call me an intellectual. Seriously though how come you can't muster three sentences in spanish..thank god at least public schools in Nueva Yol has taught you english..are you giving back to the USA or still collecting and working under the table at the bodega..don't let uncle sam found out..Rubi where have you been though..did you find the missing perico...I say this thread is going to hit 100..all them are out..
From: United States
i see where we are progressing smoothly toward the record...picking up steam nicely.
From: United States
and don't forget, we are still to hear from carbelk. can i change my prediction?
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Aug 2008 2:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Nope. You have reminded us of the missing piece in the flag waving puzzle. Also, don't forget about the pearls of wisdom emanating from His Imperial Majesty, anthonyC.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
JH:
Me fascina tu vocabulario barato de chopas de barrio y gente barata como tu gente que solo sabe llevar enfermedades, salvajismo y creencias de brujeria barata.
No quiero discutir estupideces contigo pues gracias a Dios nunca he tenido que vivir en barrios marginados como mencionas tu con tu idioma negril de Haitiano barato como son la mayoria de uds, para muestra solo hay que verlos alla que se defecan y orinan donde quiera como pequenos animalitos salvajes.
Sigue engrandeciendote con tus creencia infantiles de que conoces a la aristocracia de alla cuando tu eres un simple y chopo Haitiano como la mayoria que tenemos alla.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 2:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic
JR RUBIROSA This penny less scrub always talks about the "Dominican Elites!" Dude "usted es un baboso" The wannabe dominicano, make belief spokes men of the "Dominican Elites!" guy you are a joke!
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
JH:
You truly believe that I live in Washington heights?, "dude" you are very biased, dumb and nearsighted when in comes to knowledge about Dominicans in NY.
We are not like Haitians that only think about eating, defecating and thinking like predators from the 18 century.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Arcatype:
Be careful that they have their little puppy "Made in Haiti" next to them, I call him Mr. Wikipedia because he is always posting stuff to be a forrest gump.
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo, Mao Valverde & Miami
There is not a racial connotation about this article, what is really racial is the inevitable back and forward between racist Dominicans and Dominicans wannabes.
What both nations really need is to TRUJILLO and PAPA DOC to comeback from the dead as a 2headed monster and take over the island.
From: United States, New York City
"you guys are a disgrace to humanity"
No. YOU and that other clown with all these racist diatribes are a disgrace to humanity in general and to the Dominican people in particular. Da asco y verguenze leer semejante cosa. Acaso ustedes no se dan cuenta pero nuestro pueblo NO ES UN PUEBLO DE BLANCOS. I have money that says I'm whiter then most of the posters who constantly post crap on here (and no I do not consider myself white) yet I don't feed into this nonsense. Get over yourselves and see your people for what they are and if you can't accept it fine. Deny us. I'd rather that then some of you opening your mouths and as a result giving all Dominicans a bad name with your shear stupidity.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Cibaeno75:
Good for you buddy but I don't need to be forced to side with your comments, if you truly believe so then move to Haiti and help your own people over there.
In the meantime i honor the memory of Duarte, Sanchez y Mella not Boyer and Louvertore.
From: United States
Mr Lautaro, my prediction was 40 posts by midnight. would you object strenuously if i added a zero to that?
From: Haiti
JR pero que fue manito...quien te e'cribió ete post. Mas respeto ombe. Diablo, te pasastes de la raya. Perdon tu eres rico de clase media y sabe leer y escribir. Manito tiene un complejo de inferioridad. No voy a discutir con un grosero como tu. Por favor digame que opinas sobre el tema? Que soluciones tienes sobre la inmigracion haitiana? Por que las empresas prefieren contratar obreros haitianos? Donde estan los dominicanos? Esos son preguntas ni el gobierno dominicano quiere confrontar. La mente es la que tiene la respuesta. Gracias de antemano
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 3:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I want the D.R. to not be infected by the cancer that permeates Haiti, if that's to hard for the brainless to understand. "THEN TOO BAD!!!!!"
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Aug 2008 3:05 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Not anymore, dread. All hell have broken loose. I didn't take into account the event of Rubi and Ark making a team-up.
From: Haiti
Dread..no back track this post is going off the richter scale by 7 tonight. I got the 40th post..do i get a prize..dread?
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Aug 2008 3:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
From: United States, New York City
"I want the D.R. to not be infected by the cancer that permeates Haiti, if that's to hard for the brainless to understand. "THEN TOO BAD!!!!!" "
Instead of constantly insulting the haitian people why don't you insult the clowns who are employing them? Why don't you start a campaign to vilify those that facilitate work for illegals? You won't do such a thing because it does not encompass your anti-haitian ideology very neatly. This article plainly states as to WHY there are haitians in the zone in question; because there is employment for them there. The ones doing the hiring, those are the culprits that should recieve the ire of those who are bothered by Haitian immigration (and believe me that includes me). It's the same with balaguer. All his life anti-haitian rhetoric but during his presidency there was no shortage of them to cut cane. He did nothing to stop there ever increasing numbers back then. This problem didn't come out of nowhere. He was as full of crap as you guys are.
From: United States, New York City
I posted that for them Lautaro. One of them actually said it stemmed from a Haitian site and as such was moot! This is what we're dealing with.
From: United States
no you don't Jabao. Mr Lautaro will not allow me to change my prediction, but, if you make the 400th post, i will consider some type of award. at the rate we are going, i have to think fast what this prize should be..carbelk isn't even here yet.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 3:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Lautaro are you that dumb! Do you think that the people spoken about in that list are Haitians of 100% African ancestry. Those were the white french slave masters that escaped Haiti, when the slaves were slaughtering the white population. "Remember the massacres" DIABLO QUE BRUTO ES ESTE TIGUERITO!". Let me school you "Jose Maria Imbert Dupresse "COMANDANTE SUPREMO DE LA BATALLA DE SANTIAGO DE 1844" nacio en la ciudad de Fudlon al nor-oeste de la Republica de Francia en el 1801; hijo de Simon Imbert y de Maria Ana Dupresse vino muy joven a America fijando residencia en Cuba despues paso a Puerto Principe de Haiti escapando las masacres en Haiti. Luego vino al lado nuestro fijando residencia en Moca, Trabajo como corregidor (Alcalde). En Moca establecio hogar casandose con la mocana Maria Francisca Del Monte. Siendo corregidor se enrolo al movimiento independentista, y al darse el grito de independencia en "EL CONDE". Cont.,
Written by: talia, 27 Aug 2008 3:48 PM
From: United States
Can we be cool for about 5 seconds here please. The way I see it is Haitians in Punta Cana who are doing business should be obligated to have some kind of taxation or give money to the authority where they are doing business. And I'm sure there is such a thing in DR. Its the Dominican govts. choice and responsibility to ask for portion of the selling. At least for the sake of someone's health he talks of testing and treatment for malaria and fumigation. On some cases I agree with Veloz's objections and he has to foster and care for this sector of tourism that has helped to booster of the economy- its his responsibility along with Prez. L. who I hope doesn't contine to sleep on this.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 3:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Continuation, Dirigio a toda la comarca una proclama despertando los sentimientos patrioticos de los dominicanos." BATALLAS DE MARZO1844, Por Joaquin Priego. Lautaro school the braindead.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
arcatype:
Thanks a lot for your invaluable input against the know everything group.
Very clear and articulate comments "Mocano", I'm 50% too.....LOL
Written by: talia, 27 Aug 2008 3:51 PM
From: United States
I'm posting this again, ayiyi:
Can we be cool for about 10 seconds here please. The way I see it is Haitians in Punta Cana who are doing business should be obligated to have some kind of taxation or give money to the authority where they are doing business. And I'm sure there is such a thing in DR. Its the Dominican govts. choice and responsibility to ask for portion of the selling. At least for the sake of someone's health he talks of testing and treatment for malaria and fumigation. On some cases I agree with Veloz's objections and he has to foster and care for this sector of tourism that has helped to booster the economy- its his responsibility along with Prez. L. who I hope doesn't contine to sleep on this.
From: Haiti
Dread, we are on.. It's ashame that embeciles from the states don't have left their country for the same reasons as these hard working people that was dealt a bad hand. These guys are boring and predictable..They are only fueled by spewing hatred towards my compatriots. I am still waiting for a solution from these idiots. Rubi is just a retard that has complex issues while the other is just a cobarde distorting history. All have something in common, they believe that they are descendants of spaniards fighting to keep the bad haitians from DR. Why not confront your governement? I forgot you wont dare step out of line. Have you guys ever been to Punta Cana/ Bavaro area? Cibaeno, you white boy stop denying it..lol...the chosen one..jajjaj..ok seriously i would like to blame my government for forcing these people to migrate looking for work when they can provide them jobs in haiti. Just a heads up..Santiago will so boom in haitain laborers..in near future..
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 3:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Im from Santiago we are neighbors my brother!
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
arcatype:
I'm 50 % Santiago, 50% Moca but I was borned and raised in Santiago....
Santiaguero de pura cepa...................................
From: Haiti
JR mi pana full. I am waiting 4 you to lay down positive criticism regarding this topic. I guess your spanish writer went out for lunch. Arkatype you are a cobarde with little brain cells..So the whites in haiti aren't haitian..lol..only the blacks..then if that's the case majority of the whites in DR are really dominicans but foreignors that are just passing by in the DR. You know what's going to happen to you..you babies are going to come out with pelo malo and round noses and full lips.....better marry a non dominican..lol. Again if you want beef go to a haitian neighbourhood and start talking your diatribes. tough guy online..if something would break out I can see you running..wait u dont even live on the island but a immigrant in the USA..I hope McCain wins so you can get a one way ticket down here and work side by side with your beloved haitainos..
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
JH:
Once again your brain is attached to your A.. on your comments, who told you that i belong to the group that you mentioned regarding Mccain winning as a president.
Regarding Arcatype comments He is just trying to educate your inferior haitian mentality that believes in superiority of 18 century slaves behavior.
From: Haiti
Ok both of your guys are campesinos who moved to santiago in some marginalise neighbourhood and won a ticket to Nueva Yol..want a biscuit...Rubi mi pana full. I am still waiting for a rebuttal en espanol..sobre el tema..I guess you wasn't picked to go to school..how did you get to the usa? Cousins passport or you came from Puerto Rico..yola taker..Dread it better be good..lol..
From: Haiti
You think McCain is going to differentiate you from an illegal..it's going to be a sweep..any funny looking negro with fair skin and big nose that speak with an accent is off to Krome to do some push ups and off to Las Americas..I bet you you'll be crying to go back to the USA and claiming you have your papers..Tan domincano eres..tu eres mi pana full. you are classic here.......
Written by: talia, 27 Aug 2008 4:18 PM
From: United States
I'm posting this yet again, ayiyi:
Can we be cool for about 15 seconds here please. The way I see it is Haitians in Punta Cana who are doing business should be obligated to have some kind of taxation or give money to the authority where they are doing business. And I'm sure there is such a thing in DR. Its the Dominican govts. choice and responsibility to ask for portion of the selling. At least for the sake of someone's health he talks of testing and treatment for malaria and fumigation. On some cases I agree with Veloz's objections and he has to foster and care for this sector of tourism that has helped to booster the economy- its his responsibility along with Prez. L. who I hope doesn't contine to sleep on this.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Aug 2008 4:20 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Seguramente la muela que él usa, Jabao, es la de engañar a todas esas chopas de barrio diciendo: "Mis hijas, yo soy de Santiago, descendiente de don Porfirio..." y demás porquerías por el estilo. LOL
En cuanto a ti, Arka, por si no lo sabias, Antonio Duvergé SI tenía sangre africana en sus venas, ya que sus padres eran gente de color (gens de couleur), una clase diferente en sí misma (por lo cual eran despreciados por tus queridos "grand blancs"). Así que, mi pana, el que necesita ir a la escuela y dejar de leer paquitos eres tú. What a jack*ss.
PS: For your (and Rubi's) dismay, if it weren't for Duvergé's military prowess, the DR would have never survived past 1844. ¿Tienen algo más que decir?
Written by: talia, 27 Aug 2008 4:23 PM
From: United States
Looks like I'm just going to keep bumping:
Can we be cool for about 15 seconds here please. The way I see it is Haitians in Punta Cana who are doing business should be obligated to have some kind of taxation or give money to the authority where they are doing business. And I'm sure there is such a thing in DR. Its the Dominican govts. choice and responsibility to ask for portion of the selling. At least for the sake of someone's health he talks of testing and treatment for malaria and fumigation. On some cases I agree with Veloz's objections and he has to foster and care for this sector of tourism that has helped to booster the economy- its his responsibility along with Prez. L. who I hope doesn't contine to sleep on this.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 4:33 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Lautaro, And i wonder why a mulatto Antonio Duverge from Haitian ancestry will not fight along his fellow countrymen! Can someone say "RACISM." The majority blacks were fighting the small elite's or mullato's making chowder out of their behinds in Haiti. That's why Charles Riviere-Herard got rid of Jean Pierre Boyer he was becoming complacent with the small mulatto elite's in Haiti and ignoring the majority of his soldiers that were 100% black africans making them live in misery. O.K. Pro-Haiti-Man.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 4:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Lautaro, You mean if it was not for Juan Pablo Duarte that moved mountains and all obstacles to separate us from that alien nation of self destruction, and gave all his money to make sure that you have shade in the sun and a decent meal you ingrate!
Written by: Jander, 27 Aug 2008 4:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I don't agree with this part it is a contradiction.
The Haitians also generate a dynamic economic movement among themselves but the areas where those workers live are overcrowded, which also concerns hoteliers as to the effects as a tourism attraction. "They don’t leave one peso here. They send money to their families or spend on prostitutes and rum. You will you never see a Haitian in a formal business, in a restaurant, or anything like that."
That Hooker and Rum money contributes to the economy...sort of..
Loitering is looked down upon anywhere in the world so if you have a goup of people with no means and are panhandling or harassing the tourists and driving away business you have to do somthng.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Lautaro: where you get your history facts from?? Haitian books i guess, why don't you take off your mask of portraying yourself as Dominican when you are haitian.
JH: why you keep missing the target over and over buddy, for 200th time let me clarify something with you, I'm sorry to let let you down but will emphasize to your discomfort that I don't belong to that class, came legally to the USA and i don't need to worry about being deported, last but not least since I came to this great country never lived in Washington heights and my life is perfectly comfortable in all aspects.
On your side guess things are not going well, maybe You go and pay on those internet centers and waist your little money letting out your envy against dominicans, maybe take public transportation to go to do construction and from time to time cross the border illegaly to see your family.
We don't play in the same league and I don't belong to your ghetto class...
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
arcatype:
Lautaro is 100 % Haitian and never has the guts to admit it because he is very shameful of his origins.
Written by: Johnnyc, 27 Aug 2008 4:54 PM
From: United States
Lets review: 2008 Builders hire Haitians as constructions workers...... Builders pay off Gov't agents to look the other way..... 1908 Sugar Cane Growers Hire Haitians.... Sugar Cane Growers pay Gov't agents to look the other way........
Can anyone name a single Government Agency that is doing it's job? Can anyone name a President that had a Government that actually that had Govenment Agencies that did their job?
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 5:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Im starting to believe that too. It reminds me of someone else called Dreadlocks that claims to be a "WORLD CITIZEN?" whatever that is, and most likely is haitian or haitian american.
From: United States
The govt really needs to build a wall along the border before this problem gets further out of control. Something must be done!
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 6:02 PM
From: Canada, home safe
" arkatype, 27 Aug 2008 5:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Im starting to believe that too. It reminds me of someone else called Dreadlocks that claims to be a "WORLD CITIZEN?" whatever that is, and most likely is haitian or haitian american.
"
I am checking in !! Very entertaining “tu papa esta aqui Rubi asi ta te kieta y k te calles", Lautaro I will be going to Yucatan this Saturday, I promise to post some pictures.
Jabao are you saying that Rubi can not write proper English ? well I was hoping his Spanish was better, any who I have seen some improvement lately.
Every progressive Dominicans that do not agree with your gibberish are Haitians, you guys are the lowest human living cells.
(scum = (Greenwave=Akartype=Onde vert=Carbkl99=Rubi))
From: United States
Not trying to be pessimistic, but what is the purpose of the wall when the government will let the haitians in anyways. A wall is only doing its job if its properly implemented. Like i said, DR has the money to build a wall. Has the capability of getting rid of all the haitians, the problem that arises, is that they don't want to do that. All this bashing and stating things will not help the situation, unless the dominican government take the initiative or sees it to their best interest. At the end of the day, its about the Benjamins. Who cares what dominican citizens say, who cares what haitians say, its about what the dollar say. Please don't bark up my tree, but that's the way the world works. My mom always told me that money talks, i guess you guys should have a fight with the money coming into DR.
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 6:17 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
We (because I'm Dominican as well) should get off our high horses. The Dominican Republic is a coup d’état away from being a failed State (i.e Somalia, Haiti, etc.). If we could look beyond our peasant-leaning views we would realize that for all intent and purpose Haiti and the Dominican Republic are in the same boat. Their problems are "our" problem; Haiti's people are "our" people.
We are intrinsically linked economically, historically and culturally. The issue at hand in Punta Cana is not about illegal "Piti" squatters threatening to obliterate the illusion of the Dominican Republic being a forward-looking tourist destination (and it is an illusion, let me tell you); but of socially outcast human beings trying to survive with dignity in a hostile environment.
Too bad that we (Dominicans) are so intellectually challenged as to be incapable of understanding this clear fact. Too bad we have not shed the peasant mentality that has kept us on the fringe of 21st century...Shame on US!!!
From: United States
arkatype, if you took the time to examine the thread, you will notice that i stayed away from making any editorial comments regarding this subject. the reason is simple; it brings out the worst in types such as yourself, who are one dimensional, and rampaging idiots. i have never seen you post in any thread if it does not have a haitian component. this leads me to conclude, quite safely i might add, that you are marginally literate, and supremely ignorant. maybe if you get an education, and enable yourself to discuss matters other than those with racial components, we can have a discussion. until that eventuates, i will do my level best to avoid you. as a wise man once said " never argue with a fool, because, from a distance, nobody can tell the difference". (paraphrase)
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 6:20 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
We (because I'm Dominican as well) should get off our high horses. The Dominican Republic is a coup d’état away from being a failed State (i.e Somalia, Haiti, etc.). If we could look beyond our peasant-leaning views we would realize that for all intent and purpose Haiti and the Dominican Republic are in the same boat. Their problems are "our" problem; Haiti's people are "our" people.
We are intrinsically linked economically, historically and culturally. The issue at hand in Punta Cana is not about illegal "Piti" squatters threatening to obliterate the illusion of the Dominican Republic being a forward-looking tourist destination (and it is an illusion, let me tell you); but of socially outcast human beings trying to survive with dignity in a hostile environment.
Too bad that we (Dominicans) are so intellectually challenged as to be incapable of understanding this clear fact. Too bad we have not shed the peasant mentality that has kept us on the fringe of 21st century...Shame on US!!!
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 6:37 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Written by: jacirez, 27 Aug 2008 6:20 PM
From: Canada, Northern Alberta, Canada
"
Amazing this is the last place one earth I expect a Dominican to be living... hmm Northern Alberta, not sure oil resonate in my mind.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Antonioj:
Really??? We are scum because We care about our country, then what is left for Haitians like you that want to destroy the existence of our constitution and legacy from the 3 founding fathers.
It's easy for Haitians like you to point the finger to our sovereign country and downplay your massive and big poverty, diseases and backwardness export.
Main issue is that this group of business people are concerned about your people destroying, defecating and peeing all over their property since i seem myself your monkey behavior.
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 6:40 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
I live near the largest oil deposit in the world(the Athabasca Formation)...Bigger than Saudi Arabia (and the Orinoco Tar Formation in Venezuela)...To my knowledge, I am the only Dominican in this area :-)
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 6:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti and Dominican Republic the same? What logic do you have! We are a Coup d'etat away? no we are not! Your analogy is ignorant to the highest degree Haiti has a carbon copy somewhere in Africa not the D.R.! Haiti has had 33 Coup d'etats the most in the world. Unless im wrong!
From: United States
the only other place on the internet wherein one can expect to find such reprehensible, loathsome, racist commentary, is on some dedicated white supremacist , nazi, skinhead , Aryan website. congrats, Rubi, Arkatype, Carbelk, et al, for having elevated yourselves into that rarefied pantheon of racist goons that we would expect to see in some backwater in mississippi, not hailing from the Dominican Republic. the irony of it all is that the inbreds from mississippi are saying the same things about you that you say about the Haitians. you see, guys, you only think you are white: the rednecks know you are not!
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dreadlocks:
Racism and defending our country are 2 separate issues.............
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 6:52 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
jacirez, 27 Aug 2008 6:40 PM
From: Canada, Northern Alberta, Canada
I live near the largest oil deposit in the world(the Athabasca Formation)...Bigger than Saudi Arabia (and the Orinoco Tar Formation in Venezuela)...To my knowledge, I am the only Dominican in this area :-)
"
I heard Kids working at Macdonald are getting paid $20 an hour. I guess you will be retiring easily after 5 years. I am confident there must be some mexicano there as well. I am from Toronto Canada before the housing boom in year 2003, I was close to move to Calgary, well nice talking to you neighbor.
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 6:55 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
(this is me speaking slowly, so you can understand me),
The Coup d'etat away analogy refers to the fragility of our so-called democracy. Despite the fact that the Juan Bosch's government of 1963 was the last democratically elected government to be overthrown, we must agree that the quality of our democratic institutions since are fragile to say the least.
Under these circumstances it only takes a Coup d'etat or a similar civil trauma to throw the country into chaos. Add to this the social, racial and economic problems bubbling under the surface; and you have a recipe for a failed state. Remember Yugoslavia after the death of Marshall Tito? Ivory Coast after Félix Houphouët-Boigny?
Can you honestly say that our Dominican Democratic Institutions (Legislative, Executive, Judicial) have matured to the level of 21st century democracies?
Can you honestly say that our racial, social and economic traditions are in par with Duarte, Sanchez y Mella dreams and aspirations? Can yo
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 6:58 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
JRRubirosa, 27 Aug 2008 6:48 PM
From: United States
Dreadlocks:
Racism and defending our country are 2 separate issues.............
"
Rubi, can I congratulate you?, I want to emphasize that, since I was critical of your writing, keep it up.
Written by: Jander, 27 Aug 2008 7:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The DR isn't anywhere near a "Failed State"" It just isn't moving forward fast enough and corruption and laziness are the main reasons. At least they have the sense to not let the main industry (or soon to be) destryed by an immigration problem.
They have to take control , but they need the outside labor to meet the demand.
Like the article says they have the furniture and the buses for the immigration department but haven't used them. So hopefully when tourists decide to go elsewhere becuase they hae a had a bad experience or or a friend said don't go there it sucks. They will wake up.. No one wants Malaria!
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
And Haiti is not a racist country? read a book!
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:02 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
Antonio,
Every nationality is represented here. If you are ever up this way, look me up...
Written by: Jander, 27 Aug 2008 7:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dread you got that right , And what box does a Domincan check on a form that asks?
Caucasian
African-American
Hispanic
Asian
Dominican ?
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:11 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
I will try again, ssssssslowly:
At this point in our history (2008, in case you didn't know), the concept of nationality is almost irrelevant. For the countries sharing the island of Hispaniola this is more so. You know the tenet of the Chaos Theory: If a butterfly flaps its wings in Beijing, it rains in New York? Well, this is the world we live in. Knowing this, Haiti's problems are Dominican Republic's problems, and vice versa.
..and the issue of race, well that's just stupid. In today's world, you rise and fall by the content of your character; not by the color of your skin.
I agree there is a problem in Punta Cana; but it has nothing to do with race or nationality; but everything to do with economic opportunities.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Jacirez your comparison is still idiotic, Haiti is not even a country it has not matured to the level of any nation in Latin America. Haiti was established in1804 and had it's first democratically voted in president in 1991 Jean Bertrand Aristide and they still lack any organization, you got the U.N. keeping the peace there. So please dont draw the same conclusion with D.R. you are seriously confused in this issue or you just love ignoring the facts!
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:16 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
I REPEAT:
Can you honestly say that our Dominican Democratic Institutions (Legislative, Executive, Judicial) have matured to the level of 21st century democracies?
Can you honestly say that our racial, social and economic traditions are in par with Duarte, Sanchez y Mella dreams and aspirations? Can you?
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Antonioj:
thanks Mr. PHD with your uplifting comments, once again separate issues like race and business so you and your people can grow up.
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Im not going to answer your question because obviously you lack basic intelligence, you are comparing Haiti a failed state with a democracy Dominican Republic. Go ahead enjoy yourself!
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:24 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
JRRubirosa,
There is no such thing as a "racial" issue. It is ALL economics.
--The Nazi Holocaust was underpinned by the great economic depression of 1929 and Germany's war reparations
---The Genocide of Rwanda was preceded by the worst harvest in Rawanda/Burundi history
--The recent anti-immigration rants of the U.S Conservative media coincides with the lowest downturn in U.S GDP since the early eighties
I live in what is arguably the city with the highest per-capita in North America; you would be surprised at how well we all get along :-)
Written by: Jander, 27 Aug 2008 7:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I tell you there's a Domini-Nada , that is confused and out of touch.
This island has to deal with illiteracy , corruption and crime that would make a "First World" leader throw his hands up in the air and run a way.It holds it's own despite all it's problems.
Tourism is the DR's oil and they need to protect it..
Haiti has been dealt a bad hand and the culture and language seperate the two nations not the color. .
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 7:35 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Written by: jacirez, 27 Aug 2008 7:16 PM
From: Canada, Northern Alberta
arkatype,
"
I take it that you are new in the forum, Iet me save you some of your precious time, there have been very bright articulate Dominicans that I have tried to educate, or have a logical conversation with Arka to no avail. Arka suffer from extreme self hate , have a twisted understanding of history, and most of all he's delusional all the time.
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:37 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
The following is not intended as "bragging"--however I feel it necessary to put all my previous comments in context:
I hold a degree in Computer Sciences; One In Engineering and one in Business (with a minor in History). oh, I almost forgot: I have an IQ of 187. My area of expertise is Computer Security (Firewalls, VPNs and Encryption), and Fire Protection Engineering. Basic intelligence in my field is a requirement...
I would be delighted to have an intelligent argument with you (or anyone), so long as you do not question my Heritage and my Intelligence.
Thank you.
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 7:39 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Written by: JRRubirosa, 27 Aug 2008 7:18 PM
From: United States
Antonioj:
thanks Mr. PHD with your uplifting comments, once again separate issues like race and business so you and your people can grow up.
"
Not a problem cuz, although i do not agree with you all the time, however I will take you over Arkatype any time jejeje
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Jacirez and anyone interested read this link from 1804 - 1990 Haiti never had a legit president. All of them have been "Emperors for Life" or "Governors for Life" by force.
http://www.haiti.org/president_of_haiti.htm Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:52 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
For the love of god, man. Give it a rest, will ya?!!!
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 7:54 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Lol.... take notice Arka, you will be pulverized
Written by: jacirez, 27 Aug 2008 7:37 PM
From: Canada, Northern Alberta
arkatype,
The following is not intended as "bragging"--however I feel it necessary to put all my previous comments in context:
I hold a degree in Computer Sciences; One In Engineering and one in Business (with a minor in History). oh, I almost forgot: I have an IQ of 187. My area of expertise is Computer Security (Firewalls, VPNs and Encryption), and Fire Protection Engineering. Basic intelligence in my field is a requirement...
I would be delighted to have an intelligent argument with you (or anyone), so long as you do not question my Heritage and my Intelligence
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
"THE TRUTH HURTS" Im sorry to make your stomach churn, im ready to vomit too. Im going to pull an old Encyclopedia that i have stashed in one of my closets then im going to proceed and look for Haiti. And im going to vomit all over the haitian map! PEACE?
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 7:59 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
antonioj,
LMAO!!!
Just my subtle way of saying to arkatype : Dude, Shut the f*%$ off!!!
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 8:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
"THE TRUTH HURTS" Basket Case!!!!!
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 8:06 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Written by: arkatype, 27 Aug 2008 7:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
"THE TRUTH HURTS" Im sorry to make your stomach churn, im ready to vomit too. Im going to pull an old Encyclopedia that i have stashed in one of my closets then im going to proceed and look for Haiti. And im going to vomit all over the haitian map! PEACE?
"
Very childish Arka, you are a typical cyberbully and a corward when confronted choose to run instead...
Here's a an Haitian saying anyone can translate this ? "dent pourri gin force su banane mu"
Written by: Jander, 27 Aug 2008 8:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Hmmm :
The Smartest Woman In The World?
The highest recorded IQ Score for a living female goes to Marilyn Vos Savant. She has an IQ Score of 186. Marilyn Vos Savant is a national columnist and author. Her syndicated column is called Ask Marilyn. She is an executive at Jarvik Heart, Inc.
http://www.kids-iq-tests.com/famous-people.htmlWritten by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 8:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Running from who? "YOU" you freaking derelict.
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 8:14 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
I do not consider you a Bully. On the contrary, I welcome your views/rants; for it reaffirms my own superiority and cements the un-likelihood of your intellectual ascendancy. If it wasn't for people like you, people like me would have no one to lead or reign over.
I, unlike the rest of the forum, thank you. You make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 8:19 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
Jander,
Aside for being notoriously unreliable as a barometer of intelligence, there isn't a single, standardized IQ test. That said, Dr. Stephen Hopkins has a recorded IQ of 200.
The IQ test used at my Alma mater, placed an unusual emphasis on mathematics (having a background in Computer Sciences/Encryption) gave all my class an advantage. Coincidently, I scored the average for my class. IQ score means nothing (that was an inside joke)...
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 8:32 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
greenwave,
Did you forget to take your meds again?!
Dude, remember: Take the blue ones in the morning, the red ones before bed....
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 8:32 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Written by: arkatype, 27 Aug 2008 8:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Running from who? "YOU" you freaking derelict.
"
You are running away from Jacirez, indeed that only confirm your inability to have an intelligent conversation.
(chicken , turkey)
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 8:34 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Written by: greenwave, 27 Aug 2008 8:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Get the illegal immigrants out of DR NOW! It is time to execute and/or poison these rats! GET THE HELL OUT!....
"
Arkatype just morphed into Greenwave the loco, he does that all the time.... you are such a weirdo
Written by: Jander, 27 Aug 2008 8:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Thats alright you are a very articulate young man and I am sure my IQ is lower then anyones, but I have drive and determination .
If you are the same person ? who worked on this created the bridgeware (IPSEC, Webmin, Kernel Module, etc then you maybe at .01% level
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 8:39 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Jacirez man enough respect .... you rule ... anyone want a piece of J....... all the cyberbullies are gone.
Jacirez the bully exterminator... hasta la vista baby
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 8:44 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
Jander,
Yes, that was me (this is me blushing)...
Written by: arkatype 
, 27 Aug 2008 8:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Antonioj you see GREENWAVE is another person!
From: Dominican Republic, Boycott Dominican Tourism
Written by: SpinDoctor, 27 Aug 2008 11:48 AM
From: Canada
What a load of racist vitriol. The "hoteliers" would gladly hire them to build their hotels then complain once they have the property completed. Haitians wouldn't go there to begin with if Dominicans themselves would do the construction. Of course, that's beneath them and only suited for a Haitian. Catch22!
very true, soo many Dominicans asking for work and when they have work presented they don't want to do it.... they don't even sell stuff to the Haitians..... where is Leo in all this,
From: Dominican Republic, Boycott Dominican Tourism
"Veloz said the hotel industry recognizes the benefits of the Haitian workforce, including the fact that many speak English, French and Spanish. "Of course, in partly it’s our fault."
you should build in Haiti then
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Chillaxin201:
Believe or not I agree with You 100 % regarding Dominicans in this issue but please remember too that Haitians have not right to invade us with a hidden agenda.
Written by: jacirez 
, 27 Aug 2008 9:08 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
May I ask
Does anyone have A SOLUTION to this problem...? If so, let's hear it....
a) I propose to build low income houses to the eligible workers already in place
b) in conjunction with the Hoteliers enforce current immigration laws
c) as a look-ahead measure, create enforce a competitive guest-workers program specifically tailored to the Tourism industry
d) Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
Just my $0.02
Written by: antonioj, 27 Aug 2008 9:29 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Hey Jacirez are you familiar with the auto pact here in Canada, can something similar be implemented in the island. Can the Haitian gov insist a portion of the goods sold in Haiti from DR to have some kind of Haitian content or to have some kind office in Haiti.
I like your option below
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
f)More free trade zone at the border town, Haitian will not have to venture uninvited to find job at other DR cities
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Jacyrez:
In perspective might be OK your proposition but remember that Haitian goverment is quite lazy and irresponsible in many terms, there is always something going on when issues arise in Dominican Republic and they deport haitians with legitimate right then you have all this animosity from mediocre ONG'S and Haiti to enforce made up information so Dominican Rep look foolish, racist and biased.
I see US, european countries and Canada exercising the same right that they want to take away from Dominican Republic, also if Haitians are so brave why no to push the US to apply the same inmigration policy as they do with the Cubans once they step on Florida and get political asylum on the spot.
Is always easy to point fingers at Dominican Republic all the time when Haitian goverment is to blame for not providing enough jobs, education and welfare system for its citizens, instead They push their people to cross the border and put the blame on Dominican Republic which is unfair.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Also remember that We are not a first world country like US, Canada or europe so at the end same conditions that You asking for Haitians might be an illusion when Dominicans themselves live in poverty, strugle on a daily basis and have to bust their backs to achieve anything.
You asking for the hoteliers to build houses for your people when in real life I do know most of the Dominicans that work in Punta Cana and strugle to meet ends and You asking for so many concesions "In a way".
History is already written so there is also the case that We need to be respected since sometimes your people try to push the wrong buttons when living in Dominican Republic and want to touch sensitive issues that eventually stir up people's feelings.
From: United States
JRRubirosa opines that the Haitian government is "lazy and irresponsible sometimes". i end my post there!
Written by: Jander, 28 Aug 2008 12:11 AM
From: Dominican Republic
if the statistics are true then they say 80% of the contruction labor is done by Hatians.
This may be a bad example but I am searching for some common ground here.
The surgar cane industry sets up 'Bateys" for the workers. I know they are deplorable but at least it allows these folks a community they can call home..
The government can subsidize the building materials and the Haitians could build it.
Is this to far fetched or a simple solution.
It can be supervised and controlled .
What I see at every construction site is the workers live on site until it is finished then they are kicked out and move on to the next job if they are lucky.
But they don't get running water or electricity until those services are hooked up.
That pisses me off the way they are treated after busting their asses all day in the hot sun and they have to take a shower with a garden hose if they are lucky enough to have water.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
to jac whatever from edmonchuk you choco jerk stay over hear with your horse puckey you probably are a fat choco jerk....dont be coming into my yard and talking your insufferable NDP junk.....Who cares you went to Canada because you could not get a green card you loser....freeze your testicles in the frozen socialist north and god save the queen.......One more thing Harper is going to win again and roll back all that commie stuff that Prince Pierre started............A bigoted peasant! ??????
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
maybe this thread will go to 200 ...... I find these racial food fights disconcerting since I am neither Haitian or Dominican and consider meddling to be outside agitation just like when the Black Congressional Caucus put in their 2 cents to further their agenda.....Outsiders who kibitz on this theme without knowing how it feels to walk in the shoes of those actually involved including cultural ,historical,linguistic and sovereign issues are adding to this problem on both sides of the coin
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
My original post at the beginning of the food fight said people gravitate to Punta Cana because it is an economic success with very little help from any of the present or previous governments ...free enterprise at work .....the realized dream of some very creative people.......In Punta Cana there’s another concept because there’s a vision of what needs to be done and they do it.," Veloz said, and asks” What has the government given to Punta Cana? Nothing. What Punta Cana has done, it has done alone, we are a sort of orphan, orphans of living parents, because the government is the pappy, and does nothing.".........this guy is absolutely right Rainieri and Co. delivered a dream with no government or very little government assistance.....They have no power outages.!....P.S. Bavaro is another story
From: United States
jacirez,
nothing generates more comments than haitian-dominican issues. while highly-minded folks like u , cibaeno, lautaro etc.. are doing your best to bring the discussions on an intellectual level, try to understand and propose solutions to a real dilemma, folks who can't get over with their own frustations, adopt for a detour: the hatred of the haitians. why ? hilarious isn'it. because of things that have occured centuries before. childish and simplistic minds! do they have any notion of history ? the best way to deal with ignoramuses is to ignore them. they are not contributing to anything at all.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
annakarina my critique of jac off or whatever he calls himself has nothing to do with this thread ....it involves his intrusion and a comment he made on another thread about the fat thief who has been appointed to take over the lottery....I always exclude myself from the Haitan/Dominican food fight as should all white outsiders and Afronazis
From: United States
i do not remember whether i am a white outsider or an Afronazi, but i was at pains to stay far from this bloodbath. all i did was to try and predict how many postings it would get by midnight. shows how much i know! i predicted 40, and it got 121. nice going, boys. goulet, does this mean you will not be asking me for any more racehorse tips in the future?
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
dread since you started demonstrating you have a sense of humor you have tip toed into my heart no matter what you say
From: United States
well, i am glad i have, no matter what you say. the feeling is mutual GC, because you are a decent man. misguided, yes, but decent.
From: United States, New York City
"misguided, yes, but decent"
I'll second that.:)
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Aug 2008 10:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Maybe his eccentricity is what makes him so endearing.
From: United States
yes, he is like your looney uncle who puts the lampshade on his head at every party you throw!
From: Haiti
I get a kick at of GC's post as well. Dread one of your post you dropped a jewel that I decided to take heed to. Lautaro, Cibaeno75 and others what are solutions to the undocmented haitians. What this guy doesn't mention is the haitians working in the tourist industry have there residency. This article contradicts itself so many times. It's like he is confused..I don't want them here but they work hard and have an economic strong hold in this region and they are qualified for the jobs when dealing with foreignors. Where are the dominicans? Dominicans want out of DR and Haitians want out of Haiti.. Geez alot of post..I say it will go to 350 by tonight.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Aug 2008 11:30 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
My two cents:
This troublesome issue could be resolved by two measures: 1- That, for once, the dominican state ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS (sorry for the shouting, but I can't help but being mightily annoyed with these oligarchic whiners). The laws are there (clearly stating that the workforce on the DR must be 80% native and 20%, the only thing needed is for the people that get's into power every four years to stop acting as if the state is their personal fief. As for these hoteliers, what can I say? they can't have it both ways, they have to decide which comes first, their pockets or the personal nuances and whims of the tourists (we all know what the answer to that will be), and 2- It's necessary for our business classes to understand that there are many business opportunities at the other side of the border, so it's in their best interest (and the interest of all parties) to put aside personal prejudices and start thinking about what business ventures could be started on Haiti (cont)
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Aug 2008 11:35 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont...) in order to create more sources of employment over there. If this is done, you can be sure as hell that the flow between both sides of the island will start to look more balanced, instead of it being all one sided (the haitians putting the labour, us selling our products and getting almost all the cash from the binational trade, plus, the lion's share of the profits that our consortiums make by not paying the haitian labourers the real value of their work). In short, dominican businessmen should start emulating the book of their haitian counterparts and invest islandwide, instead of foolishly limiting themselves to this side of the fence. Haiti's socioeconomic conditions may be far from ideal by Third World standards, but it's certainly not the war torn battlefield that the media (specially the CNN's and FOX) is portraying all the time.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Aug 2008 11:47 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
As for the haitians on the East, I'm with Jander's solution on this one, that is, that the state (or the touristic consortiums) build some residential complex in order for these people to live more decently. If the state and the consortiums are so happy providing jobs for them they should also be willing to pay the bill, don't you think?
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 11:50 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Lautaro el haitiano has spoken!
From: United States, New York City
"Lautaro el haitiano has spoken!"
What an intelligent, well though out response. How Lautaro will come back from that one is beyond me.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Aug 2008 12:20 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Cibaeño, have you heard the saying: "El mal comío no piensa"? Well, apparently ass-a-type has proven the vailidity of that saying. :-)
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 12:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic
For all you haitian appeasers i hope that Dominican Republic becomes flooded with haitians so like that you know what hell really is like!. It will happen one day, and the exodus will happen as usual. All the people that have made the country progress in there majority will leave, or live in gated communities. While all the haitian lovers will be getting stabbed in the back by these foreign invaders, that only know one thing and that's destroying themselves. You ingrates you wont have a tree for shade, you wont have food to eat, you wont have a roof over your head. The economy is going to crumble and all you traitors will receive what you deserve10 fold. SIGAN HAY BALSA DE MACA GRANOS TRAIDORES DE LA PATRIA!!!!!
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 12:49 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
Tell me, do you agree that other countries (i.e U.S.A, Spain, the Netherlands, etc.) and territories (i.e. Puerto Rico, St. Marteen, British Virgin Islands, etc) should mirror Dominican Republic's Immigration laws when dealing with undocumented workers from the Dominican Republic?
If the answers is no then; wouldn't that mean that our (Dominican's) laws may need a dose of humanity?
I believe we (Dominicans) should start an honest dialogue on the subject of comprehensive immigration--knowing that the rest of the world is watching.
Please understand that as long as there is economic disparity between Haiti and the D.R; undocumented Haitians will come to the D.R (just like we go to Puerto Rico, the U.S, etc.). The issue here is how do we manage this reality: Do we accommodate them here (in the D.R), or do we help them create more jobs at home (in Haiti).
Anything less is just rhetorical flourish.
From: United States, New York City
What an intellectually inspired foresight into the future of the Dominican state. Someone should put all that this gentleman writes on clay tablets for future generations to know that he called it first and so that others may marvel at his wisdom.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 12:50 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Hello everyone,
I am a new member!!!
All the posts are very interesting. Have any of you done something to try to resolve this issue???
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
AzuaNYC:
Solution will be to stop the illegal flow of Haitians entering the country to prevent another Yugoslavia event, most likely will be a "Balcanization" even the current Pro-Haitian presi
dent said few years ago.
European countries and the US are enforcing their inmigration laws and want to police
Dominican Republic when They are already aplying massive deportations.
Issue here is not race, Dominicans hating Haitians, blacks or else ; main issue is that
We already had issues (1822-1844) , our founding fathers shed blood and flesh fighting
this people and there is a bunch of leftie people playing Robin Hood and commies.
Why Haitians don't complain to the United States of America when they step in Florida and
get deported while Cubans do the same and get political asylum on the spot.
Also if there is 2 constitutions (Dominican & Haitian) that state clear who is a citizen and
stablish clear citizenship rights why Haitians want to force a constitution
From: United States
Arkatype, one day I hope the haitians will prove you wrong. I believe in immigration laws, and understand the fact of being patriotic. But when your opinions deals with bashiing other people, that is plain disrespectful. I am not going to be talia or some others who will try to say the right things to appease ur kind. I don't believe that DR as a first world country that should carry the burden of haiti and its mistakes. Yet, I do not feel that dominicans like yourself should go around disrespecting a whole nation because of some haitians that crossed the border. Like i said before if you are soo concerned about DR's sovereignty and the presence of haitians, please round up all dominicans and boycott all things that are made by haitians. Then you go to the government and demand that all haitians be repatriated back to their country. Then the govt will ask you one question......
From: United States
And the question will be who are you and who do you represent? Then you will say the Patria, and the governement will gladly tell you that the Patria is MONEY. Haitians are not the root problem of all the problems in DR. I believe money, greed, and the ambitions of the Wealthy. Do not blame Lautaro, Cibaeno75, and other people you call haitian lovers. Blame the governement, Trujillo killed many haitians and gave many jobs to harvest sugar cane soon after. Balaguer hated haitians, and still allowed more of them to get jobs despite deportations. The list goes on, as much as haitians are hated, it is your government that is allowing them to have jobs and giving them a reason to cross the border. Don't give them a reason, and they will stop crossing the border. Anyways, hate is a waste of an emotion. Haiti isn't hell, and the haitians can't be blamed for everything. Start looking at the root of the problem.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
(Cont)
violation to accomodate their needs and daily life requests, recently We had cases of Baseball
players borned and raised in Dominican Rep that were complaining about not being able to
get Dominican papers to sign their contracts with the MLB.
Why their parents didnt' do things by the book going to the Haitian embassy in Sto. Dgo and
declaring their children according to both countries laws and orderly civilized.
Instead We see people all over whining, complaining and making false statements against Dominican Republic that everything was based on race, being black, haitian or poor, plain and simple "The law is the law" and must be followed and respected.
Also Haitians want to demand conditions for them that not even average Dominicans have, yes indeed haitians suffer a lot but Dominicans too.
I seem many incidents of extremely poor Dominicans living in extremely inhumane conditions and who they complain about it, "NOBODY" they take with bravery and try to meet
From: United States, New York City
"Issue here is not race, Dominicans hating Haitians, blacks or else "
Really? Because in this very thread I can point out posts by you yourself that have undeniable racist and xenophobic overtones. Don't hide behind some feigned righteous indignation when it comes to this problem. You are a racist plain and simple.
"...gente barata como tu gente que solo sabe llevar enfermedades, salvajismo y creencias de brujeria barata."
"...con tu idioma negril de Haitiano barato como son la mayoria de uds, para muestra solo hay que verlos alla que se defecan y orinan donde quiera como pequenos animalitos salvajes."
" ...tu eres un simple y chopo Haitiano como la mayoria que tenemos alla."
And this is not about race and hate for you? Yeah right. Give us all a break. Your words are in front of us all so stop your nonsense. Usted esta lleno de odio. It's more than evident.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
(Cont)
Ends fighting, working, studying, etc. Also I get pissed when i see in the US, France and Canada all this negative, unprofesional campaigns staged by Haitians and their socialist, communist lovers pounding the morale, pride and Dominican foundation, at the end what Haitians expect from people like me other that feel repulsive and negative feelings against them seeing first hand
their low life backstabbing when every foreigner that goes to the island sees that they don't live in slavery conditions or get forced to do anything against their will.
Solution in the long term will be for the Haitian goverment to improve conditions for the haitian people and hopefully one day they could have a better life and expatriate themselves from Domincian Republic once they get plenty of jobs, good welfare system and hopefully a proactive goverment.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Cibaeno75:
If this is your plain and sincere opinion why don't you join Father Regino Martinez and do some humanitarian work on the border showing your true colors instead of acusing our constitution.
Whaever I said it's true because I witnessed myself in diferent locations, If you don't like criticism
too bad and I don't care.
Sad part is that you once invite me to see your profile in a menacing way, I will not do that; i leave this kind of match to low life people, also i'm always doubting about your profile and never believe that you are dominican at all, most likely you are like lautaro "Somebody hidden behind a wall" and if you really are Dominican like you said then you are a "TRAITOR"
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 1:23 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
JRRubirosa,
I talk from experience. There is a strong current of racism in the D.R. That is a fact. Remember Jose Fransisco Pena Gomez? This fella was arguably the smartest leader the D.R has ever produced (think the Dominican Barack Obama); yet time and time again the color of his skin (and supposed Haitian heritage) was used to torpedo his political aspirations.
The solution in the long term will be for the Haitian and Dominican governments to improve conditions for both the Haitian and Dominican people. The D.R does not exists in a vacuum; nor does Haiti. We (Dominicans and Haitians) are in this together.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
JAcirez:
so what about 1822-1844, don't tell me that Dominicans will be so dumb, stupid and mentally challenged to forget this history experience.
From: United States, New York City
"Sad part is that you once invite me to see your profile in a menacing way, I will not do that; i leave this kind of match to low life people, also i'm always doubting about your profile and never believe that you are dominican at all, most likely you are like lautaro "Somebody hidden behind a wall" and you really are Dominican like you say you are a "TRAITOR""
Should I cry now or later?
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Cibaeno75:
you don't have to cry but to stay in the "Haitian resistance" and fight for their rights or maybe I should say "Your rights too".
From: United States, New York City
"you don't have to cry but to stay in the "Haitian resistance" and fight for their rights or maybe I should say "Your rights too"."
Wow. Now I've been cornered intellectually. Oh, how will ever come back from this one.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 1:39 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
JRRubirosa,
Thanks for your point of view. I want to know if there is something tangible being done to resolve this problem. You know like an organization to pressure the government and the international community to take action. Can the Dominican Diaspora assist?
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 1:39 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
JRRubirosa,
Did you know that the conflict between Jews and Muslims came about because they couldn't agree to which sons of Abraham (Ismael or Issac) God intended to give the promised land to?
Or the Conflict between Sunnis and Shiite Muslims is because they could not agree which is the true representative of the prophet Mohamed on Earth: The Imams (Shiites) or the Learned Scholars (Sunnis) ?
So this hatred for Haitians can it be grounded on events 186 years ago? In 2008 Haiti is hardly in a position to mount and invasion; and to tell you the truth, Reunifying the Island doesn't sound like a bad idea (Haiti has billions of Dollars worth of unexploited resources and pristine coastline. Imagine the hotels we could build over there)...
From: United States, New York City
"Reunifying the Island doesn't sound like a bad idea "
NEVER!
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 1:43 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
I don't mind the reunification idea, as long as I can move my entire family and extended family out of the island and sell all my property.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
JAcyrez:
You are talking about 2 separates issue here, Palestinian and jews are not the same as Dominicans and Haitians, you are twisting the meaning right here.
Cibaeno: why don't you take off your mask and get honest with your nationality, Do You think
that people could be mentally challenged to misunderstand your subliminal and cheap rhetoric.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
jacyrez:
We have never invaded Haiti and just want to be left alone, is this wrong or bad???
2 different countries, 2 different languages, 2 different cultures and 2 different civilizations
so why trying to push the issue or force anything unwanted.
Cibaeno75: truly believe that father regino needs you really bad in the border so you can start distorting information against Dominican Republic supporting ONG'S and helping your own kind so support the "Haitian resistance"
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:02 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
JRRubirosa,
I am talking about cause and affect, and historical grudges that when view under the lenses of objectivity seem ridiculous at best.
Before I came to Canada I worked in the tourism industry (In Punta Cana, La Romana, Puerto Plata & Sosua). There were (and I am sure are) hundreds (even thousands) or illegal European immigrants living in there areas, owning business and otherwise part of the community. In all my years living and working there, not once did I hear anyone complain about their presence.
I think it was because of two reasons
1) They were "blancos", fair skinned. You know how we all dream of being white (some of us are capable of tracing our "Spanish" ancestry through hundreds of years).
2) They had money. They lived in big houses, drove big cars (or motorcycles) and walked around like they owned the place.
The same way Israel guarantees the "Right of Return" to anyone who can prove their "Jewishness" , while denying this very right to Palestinians displaced
From: United States, New York City
"Cibaeno: why don't you take off your mask and get honest with your nationality, Do You think
that people could be mentally challenged to misunderstand your subliminal and cheap rhetoric."
I concede. I can't play mental chess with you. Your mental capacity is like a moon eclipsing my paltry intellect. Someone mentioned an IQ in the 180s. They shouldn't even try to come on here and tout their intellect when we have towers of thought such as yourself on this site. Oh great Rubirosa, continue blessing us with these pearls of wisdom that flow like honey from your keyboard. Enlighten us wise sage.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:06 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
JRRubirosa,
2 different countries(How?), 2 different languages(How? most people in the D.R understand and speak creole/French. Myself included), 2 different cultures(Ha!) and 2 different civilizations (Are you kidding me? What civilization? The Tainos, The Europeans, The African Slaves?)
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 2:07 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Where is the Haitian Resistance (HR) headquaters and how does one sign up??? What is the HR mission?
Is the Dominican and Haitian agenda really that different? Most Dominicans want to maintain their sovereignty and Haitians want their country to be stable so they can live there (Haiti) happily. Everyone is entitled to live with dignity etc...(please insert human rights rhetoric) (please correct me if I am wrong) So wouldn't the solution be that we should all work to uplift Haiti and then the Haitian exiles will go back home, then it will be a win-win situation. Am I being over simplistic and naive???
From: Haiti
Rubi..what's good in the hood. Listen why not ask why the DR government isn't doing anything. punta cana/bavaro is ways from the border. Listen the fact is in the tourist zones haitians construct all of the area and also professional haitians due to their language skills work in the resorts. Where are dominicans? Too buys trying to catch a yola to puerto rico and get into USA. Dude no one wants them to forget 1844 but we are living in a different time. Regarding on re-unifying the island would be a disaster..it will never work..it's like dumb and dumber ties the knot.. What needs to be done is invest in haiti and move the influx of illegals back to Haiti where they can find a reasonable job.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Reunifying the Island doesn't sound like a bad idea (Haiti has billions of Dollars worth of unexploited resources and pristine coastline. Imagine the hotels we could build over there).........You are lucky your wife had jungle fever and took you back to the land of hockey pucks jacirez.....you talk about putting on a phony pose
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
So anonymous you are implying that the 2 million or so haitians in the Dominican Republic all work in "Bateys." Your analysis is wrong, haitians are not being kidnapped from Haiti to work here that's pure bull. Most if not all cross illegaly into the Dominican Republic side for work because Haiti lacks jobs at all levels, the agriculture sector is none existent because of massive erosion and lack of machinery to cultivate the land and water is scarce for irrigation. Haiti's economy and infrastructure is the least developed in the hemisphere, you lack all the basic needs for survival the food that haitians consume the majority is given freely by industrialized nations. Hospitals are under funded schools are too few to meet the demand of the ever growng haitian population, so you have a high per capita illiterate rate. Cont.,
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:11 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
AzuaNYC,
What I would like is to move you all beyond the concept of nationality. We are and will continue to be intertwined (in practical, tangible ways). This is even more so in a place like the island of Hispaniola. We have to start understating that the problem on Haiti are the problems in the D.R. That solving Haiti's problem equates to solving the D.R's problem.
Written by: USADR, 28 Aug 2008 2:13 PM
From: United States
Why are some posters making this sometype of 'racial' issue?
It is a common theme in many countries that having a large influx of illegal immigration will create
the same or worse reaction from its citizens or government.
The ugly truth of the matter is that it is definitely a problem, especially in a tourist area that would not want any type eyesores.
Similar events happened here in the USA in regular towns that had an influx of illegal Mexican immigration whereupon there would be huge crowds of men standing around waiting for contractors to pick them for jobs and/or take up loitering. These towns then started to striclty enforce laws that prevented these types of gatherings.
And as one can gather from that article, the tourist industry themselves are partly to blame.
These things have nothing to do with racism or anti-haitianismo. DR has an illegal immigration problem period.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:13 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
gouletcolonial,
I did not have to marry to come to Canada. I was a permanent resident before I got here (a side effect of having a 180 IQ. Doors just open) :-)
Written by: USADR, 28 Aug 2008 2:14 PM
From: United States
Written by: JabaoHaitian, 28 Aug 2008 2:08 PM
From: Haiti
Rubi..what's good in the hood. Listen why not ask why the DR government isn't doing anything. punta cana/bavaro is ways from the border. Listen the fact is in the tourist zones haitians construct all of the area and also professional haitians due to their language skills work in the resorts. Where are dominicans? Too buys trying to catch a yola to puerto rico and get into USA. Dude no one wants them to forget 1844 but we are living in a different time. Regarding on re-unifying the island would be a disaster..it will never work..it's like dumb and dumber ties the knot.. What needs to be done is invest in haiti and move the influx of illegals back to Haiti where they can find a reasonable job.
^
Agree.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:16 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
USADR,
WRONG! The D.R has an economic problem. Under these circumstances ethnics and racial tensions are just a convenient excuse. We have millions of immigrants in Canada--yet, we do not have an Immigrant problem (Our economy is booming, you see)...
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:20 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
USADR,
You're looking at political reunification. I am thinking of ECONOMIC integration: Cross-border free zones, bilateral economic policies. Creating a Markets in Haiti for Dominican goods and services, and vice versa. Once this is accomplished, political unification is an automatic outcome
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Continuation, Haiti practically is runned by foreign N.G.O's. Tens of thousands of haitian women cross the border illegaly to have there children in the Dominican Republic because Haiti lacks hospitals and proper facilities to give birth to there off springs. You combine the dominican population needs with haitians and you have a time bomb, dominican's and the dominican state are not at fault of Haiti's dyre impoverished situation. Haiti's tyrannical governance is the root of the problem is self inflicted, and your problems need to end in your side of the border not inside the Dominican Republic.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:28 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
My point is assigning blame is useless at this point. We should concentrate on SOLUTIONS!
We all seem to agree the best course of action is to try and rehabilitate Haiti's economy and its ability to provide basic services to its citizens....
I would suggest we (Dominicans) take a lead role in this. We could encourage the kind of changes that are needed in Haiti; rather than hurling racial epithets; we should concentrate in solving the problem....
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 2:37 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
arkatype,
I am really glad to see that you are so passionate about this issue. What are you doing personally to resolve this issue?
This does not have anything to do with race. Why do people keep bringing this up? The race issue is a weapon of mass distraction to invalidate the Dominicans point of view etc. This has to do with money and the financial, social and other burdens on the Domincan Republic.
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Jacirez, The dominican goverment could only answer to it's citizens, and many problems exist domestically for the D.R. to afford help to another country. Haiti needs to develope itself as a democracy first, when you have armed gangs affiliated with different political parties terrorizing there respective constituents you are creating an endless cycle of political turmoil. The U.N. forces are there to maintain civility in a country that's been scarred by dictators that look out for themselves and those close under them. If this archaic mentality remains present in the conscious of those that seek power, then things will never change.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
no immigrant problem in Canada .....obviously you have never been to Jane and Finch in Toronto after sundown unarmed
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Aug 2008 2:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
"a country that's been scarred by dictators that look out for themselves and those close under them"
Are the dominican elites any different, ark?
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 2:48 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Aug 2008 2:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
"a country that's been scarred by dictators that look out for themselves and those close under them"
Are the dominican elites any different, ark?
I say:
Is any government any different?
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:48 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
Based in large part to the problems you yourself alluded to, Haiti is incapable of fixing its own problem. Knowing that the poorest and least advantaged of their population will continue to cross over into the D.R makes it "OUR" problem; so be better solve it--which brings me back to my earlier ideas. I propose to
a)build low income houses to the eligible workers already in place
b) in conjunction with the Hoteliers enforce current immigration laws
c) as a look-ahead measure, create enforce a competitive guest-workers program specifically tailored to the Tourism industry
d) Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 2:50 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
gouletcolonial,
IT IS NOT AN IMMIGRANT PROBLEM. IT IS AN ECONOMIC PROBLEM...Ontario is now one of the Have-not provinces....
Guns, violence and sudo-civil unrest are symptoms of an economic problem. Ontario (Toronto) is not different.
Crime was not a serious problem in T.O in the 90s. Why?...
From: United States
Reunifying the island is not going to happen. For some odd reason, i can only see civil war if that was to happen. And more misery and poverty due to lack of investments.
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Lautaro, Dominican elites overthrow each other? You got to stop drawing conclusions between a country that has experienced democracy to one that never tasted some civil degree of democracy. Unfortunately im going back in resorting to history to answer your question. Haiti became a nation in 1804 in 1991 it had it's first democratically elected president Jean Bertrand Aristide, from Haiti's inception they've had a succession of "Emperors for Life" or "Governors for Life" which practically means they were "Dictatorships." Haiti has had 33 Coup d'etats, which 22 of them occurred between 1843-1915 the year of the first U.S. invasion and occupation of Haiti that lasted for 34 years, now has the Dominican Republic ever faced anywhere near the same fate that Haiti has the answer is no! So drawing a comparison is truly an oxymoron.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:05 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
Once again. Sssssslowy:
Based in large part to the problems you yourself alluded to, Haiti is incapable of fixing its own problem. Knowing that the poorest and least advantaged of their population will continue to cross over into the D.R makes it "OUR" problem; so be better solve it--which brings me back to my earlier ideas. I propose to
a)build low income houses to the eligible workers already in place
b) in conjunction with the Hoteliers enforce current immigration laws
c) as a look-ahead measure, create enforce a competitive guest-workers program specifically tailored to the Tourism industry
d) Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 3:09 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
jacirez,
a) What should be done with the illegal Haitians?
b) What should be done with the Haitians born in the Dominican Republic?
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:11 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
AzuaNYC,
That's the easy part:
What should be done with the illegal Haitians? Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible.
What should be done with the Haitians born in the Dominican Republic? a Dominican is defined as someone born in the Dominican Republic. There is no such thing as a Haitians born in the Dominican Republic. Since the law states that they are not citizens; then the law needs to be changed.
From: United States, New York City
a) What should be done with the illegal Haitians?
Deport them.
b) What should be done with the Haitians born in the Dominican Republic?
The law states that they are not citizens. The law needs to be changed.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 3:15 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
jacirez,
a) How do we determine who is eligible for citizenship from the 2 million illegal Haitian immigrants?
b) Will the illegal immigrants be penalized for living and working in the Dominican Republic without authorization?
c) Who will pay for all this reform?
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Having an increasing amount of illegals entering the Domincan Republic is not the solution, the problems need to be fixed in the source country Haiti. Haitians need to mature and end the tyrannical tradition of governance which have practically destroyed there country. Education, security and investment from foreigners that place interest, in capacitating haitians in their own personal growth and knowledge to create independence to it's populace is the short answer. It's easier said then done, but progress takes time and patience.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:27 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
AzuaNYC,
These are the fine points of a comprehensive Immigration policy. I do not claim to have all the answers. But I vehemently believe the first step is to move beyond blame and towards solutions.
How do we determine who is eligible for citizenship from the 2 million illegal Haitian immigrants? A good departing point would be to group these immigrants into income, education , skills and length of time in the country categories; then determine what are the D.R requirements and what is the limit (number of applicants), over time that the country can absorb.
Will the illegal immigrants be penalized for living and working in the Dominican Republic without authorization? I do not care either way--so long as the penalty is affordable. What you want is to bring people into the law; not create an underground immigrant community.
Who will pay for all this reform? What costs? They are already here. They are already putting strain on the services the government provides.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:30 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
(cont.)
This comprehensive Immigration policy has to be coupled with creating the economic conditions in Haiti to stem the flow of more immigrants into the D.R. As I said before, it is possible to create these conditions in Haiti in a manner that is economically beneficial to both the D.R and Haiti.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 3:31 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
jacirez,
Very interesting. How do you think that living in Canada has shaped your policy and/or views on the Haitian immigration issue? Do you think that if you lived in Dominican Republic your views and/or policy would remain the same?
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:35 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
AzuaNYC,
I am sure you will not believe this; but these have always been my views. I am by definition an idealist...and a grounded pragmatist...
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC, The question of race only arises within the historical context, which was a reality in the past. Slavery existed that means that blacks and whites were not equal within societies frame work, but what you got to remember is that every country had a different experience regarding slavery. Not all slave masters treated their slaves the same way. That's where the confusion and anomosities boils over between dominicans and haitians alike.
Written by: JEM237, 28 Aug 2008 3:45 PM
From: United States, Newark, NJ
Jacirez,
You keep mentioning that Haiti's problems, are also our problems since what is happening on their side of the island ends up affecting us, and to a certain extent, I agree. However, it is not our responsibility to solve their economic woes. I dont think that starting a "guest-worker" program is the answer. All that will do is encourage more illegal immigration from Haiti because in a place like DR, where pretty much all laws are poorly enforced, a program such as this will be abused; they will come in as "guest-workers" and end up staying, I guarantee you. Look at the example of the U.S., who has guest-worker programs but still has millions of illegal immigrants. Besides, like AzuaNYC mentioned, who is going to pay for such a program? The government? Charging Dominican citizens taxes? Yeah, sure, ok! I'm not saying this to offend the Haitians that come on here, but I definitely think that there should be much more involvement from the Haitian communities living abroad(cont)
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:46 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
Try this for size: I am a so-called "Dominicano Prieto". I am as sensitive to the history of dark-skinned Dominicans as I am to the African-American in North America--yet, I am not personally offended by slavery. I am not offended because it understand its context. Slavery did not happen because European believed dark-skinned people were inferior (that was just a very convenient excuse).
The real reason was that they (the tribes of West and Central Africa) represented a cheap resource (human, but a resource nevertheless) with which to perpetuate/secure the European Colonial Powers' position of power.
To me it was just a case of a powerful population securing a resource deemed strategic to their need. Not much different what we do with oil today and fresh water in the next few decades.
Of course, moral universalism makes it all wrong today...But Moral Relativism hold these truths to be self-evident...
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Jacirez good observation, i hope you agree with my last input. In understanding the treatment of slaves in different places within the historical content. Also most importantly slavery was not good for any reason's.
Written by: JEM237, 28 Aug 2008 3:54 PM
From: United States, Newark, NJ
(cont)You don't see countries and territories where there are illegal Dominicans( US, Europe, Puerto Rico), taking DR as their "responsibility." Don't forget that we are still considered a sub-developed country, like many others have said DR has much poverty and ecomomic woes of their own to then have another countries poverty and economic woes bestowed upon them. In either case, what should be done is to have heavy fines enforced on all the businesses that hire illegal Haitians as opposed to hiring a Dominican citizen just so they won't have to pay them what they deserve to be paid. I hear many people come here and say that Haitians do the jobs that Dominicans won't do, and I dont agree with that. A poor Dominican that has a family to feed and is hungry will take a job. It's just more convenient to make it seem otherwise.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 3:55 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
arkatype,
Can you please expound on your slavery commentary?
I was suggesting that the illegal Haitian immigration issue in the Dominican Republic is not a race issue because I believe that if it were two million Chinese, Native Americans, whatever with the same social-economic status as the Haitians coming to the Dominincan Republic have, Dominicans would have the same reaction.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 3:59 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
arkatype,
Slavery and or oppression of any kind is morally wrong within the 21st century context. As a 21st century pragmatist I am bound to voice my opposition to it.
Historical slavery (those of the 15th-19th centuries) was morally acceptable within these specific time context (because the moral convention of the time made it so). It would be impossible to give a truly objective opinion of these times from the perspective of the 21st century.
From: United States
you think so, Azua? let us reduce it to manageable levels, for economy of argument. do you think a small village in the DR would react equally if 100 illegal haitians moved in, as opposed to 100 illegal europeans?
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:03 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
dreadlocks,
Do you think a small village in the DR would react equally if 100 illegal Haitians moved in, as opposed to 100 illegal Europeans?
Of course not. Simply because it is understood that the 100 illegal Europeans will bring money and prosperity with them. Same as if 100 African-American NBA players move to the same village. It is ECONOMICS; not RACE.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 4:04 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Dreadlocks,
Absolutely, unequivocaly yes, I do believe it. If both the Haitians and the Europeans had the same social-economic status.
From: United States
i beg to differ, Jacirez. to say it was morally acceptable in the days in which it was practised is not necessarily true. it found self serving acceptance within groups who benefitted from it, but even back then, it was not acceptable to the mores of the time. had it been, there would have been no abolitionist imperatives.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:10 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
dreadlocks,
In philosophy moral relativism is the position that moral or ethical propositions do not reflect objective and/or universal moral truths, but instead make claims relative to social, cultural, historical or personal circumstances. Moral relativists hold that no universal standard exists by which to assess an ethical proposition's truth; moral subjectivism is thus the opposite of moral absolutism.
I am a moral relativist.
"it was not acceptable to the mores of the time. had it been, there would have been no abolitionist imperatives...."
Not true. It was to the powerful majority. Only when there was a shift in thinking in the powerful majority did it become socially unacceptable. Friedrich Nietzsche said once: Every elevation of type man have hereto been the work of aristocratic society and that will always be...True ten, true today (see the fall of apartheid in the mid 1990s)...
From: United States
again, Jacirez, i disagree with your choice of verb. you say :it is understood that illegal europeans will bring money and prosperity. the word should be "assumed". and it is assumed because of the racial dynamic. it is argumentatively disingenuous to insert '100 NBA players" , as opposed to 100 african americans of unknown wherewithal. if you were to examine whom the residents would choose between 100 europeans and 100 african americans, i am sure that the answer would favor the euros. there is no evidence that euros and north americans are bringing the prosperity to which you allude. they might be setting up businesses which generate jobs, but , by and large, the good jobs stay within their communities. you certainly do not believe that they are giving plum jobs to locals, do you?
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:17 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
dreadlocks,
Hatred of Haitians is a very powerful and convenient tool used by the powerful majority of our country to justify their access to a relatively cheap resource. No natural born Dominican is willing to work in the sugar cane field. It is convenient to stick a label of inferiority to Haitians if we are to justify their working and living in abject squalor. No rational student of history would think Haitians as inferior (They created the first Democracy in the new world); but their economic position makes them easy target of economic slavery. We needed a moral justification for it, ergo Haitians are "inferior" to us Dominicans.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:19 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
dreadlocks,
You are right. I should have used "assumed"...
From: United States
there did not have to have been a shift in moral position for abolition movements to develop. largely, economic imperatives had an effect on shifting the landscape. in the usa, for example, there existed the dichotomy between the agrarian south and the industrialised north. the powers that were in the north advocated abolition, because it would allow for a pool of labor to work in the factories of the north, because industry in those times was still extremely labor intensive.
From: United States
Jacirez, i could not agree with you more on that observation. it seems to be the common justification for all oppression, exploitation, and victimisation; they are inferior.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:22 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
dreadlocks,
Only when there was a shift in thinking motivated by economic realities; not some kind of universal moral conviction...
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC, To simplify in the island of Hispaniola in the colonial period the former spanish side of the island, did not have such a large population of slaves. In the time when the eastern side of the island was being re-colonized in the 18th century. While the former french side had an extremely large slave population due to the french's greed and Napoleonic expansionist empire and ambition to dominate Europe. The eastern side's economy was based heavily in farming and cattle ranching which meant less slaves were needed for the work at hand. The western side had a more diversified economy, and became France most important colony because of mass production. Haiti became to the french it's major source for coffee, sugar, spices, molasses and other products for export. The treatment by the spanish slave owners was not harsh and to gain your freedom was more easily attainable in the eastern side of the island. While on the french side the treatment was extremely harsh. Cont.,
From: United States
but thinking based on economic reasons is pragmatism, not morality.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:30 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
dreadlocks,
...Yet, our morality is guided my pragmatic, tangible reality.
For example, you, me (and most people) would consider eating the flesh of another human being morally wrong...yet; given the right "tangible realities", you, me and most people would no just that...
Again, this is moral relativism; not moral absolutism as we would like to think...
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Continuation, Many slaves escaped or died while laboring for long hours. Attaining freedom was harder in the french side, in most instances it was done through marriage. The french were using Haiti for the purpose of making large profits. The spanish in turn wanted to gain more land or territorial rights within the new world. That's why if you notice all of Mexico most of Central America and the larger Caribbean Islands and the largest territorial land space in South America today speak a common language spanish.
From: United States
yes, Jacirez, i understand. but, my understanding of morality is that it is based in an unshifting value system. the fact that , in order to stave off death, i might eat human flesh, does not mean that my moral objection has shifted. i might eat it solely to survive, but still consider it to be morally objectionable. you of course will conter with the observation that if i found it morally objectionable, i would die rather than do it. unfortunately for that argument, the human instict is more complex than the writings of socrates can explain. survival is fundamental, and fundamentals trump all other considerations, every time.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 4:40 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
arkatype,
and...therefore....what?
You are going to cite your sources at the end...right?
From: United States
Arkatype: So anonymous you are implying that the 2 million or so haitians in the Dominican Republic all work in "Bateys." Your analysis is wrong, haitians are not being kidnapped from Haiti to work here that's pure bull.
Once more you are wrong and twisting other people's words. I said that the government isn't doing anything about this problem. They are looking the other way, DR government is not stopping the immigration problem. This is a problem that is being tolerated. there can be 2 million haitians in DR, the government is part of the blame. Haiti doesn't have that many jobs, you are correct, but those haitians that do decide to migrate sure don't have the government stopping them. Like i said, stop blaming the haitians, just blame the governments corruption. Like the guy said in the contradicting article, they are not wanted but wanted. Refrain from blaming the haitians solely. Ur government does not care about what u care about, soo live with it.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:46 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
dreadlocks,
I am sorry; but if you go against a pre-conceived notion of morality; that means your moral position has shifted...
You say survival is fundamental, and fundamentals trump all other considerations, every time. Of course; but what you fail to mention is that our morality is influenced by our sense of survival--why do you think that most of what be consider moral is "good' for us; and what we consider immoral is "bad" for us.
Your understanding of morality is that it is based in an un-shifting value system...well, not even the bible, the Koran, The Torah (or any other ancient text) can claim as such. How can you...
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC Do you have any idea how many slaves were brought to Haiti in comparison to Dominican Republic in colonial times within the period that the island had a population boom in the beginning of the 19th century?
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC Do you have any idea how many slaves were brought to Haiti in comparison to Dominican Republic in colonial times within the period that the island had a population boom in the beginning of the 19th century?
From: United States
Ladranoso said it best Arcatype, it is maybe time for a revolution. Talking about haitians won't solve your problem, nor ur hatred. It will make you an even more wicked person to individuals who haven't personally harmed or do anything bad to you. I am not a scholar nor a politician, but I know to solve a problem you must ACT and find the root of the problem. The root of the problem is in DRs governement, which looks the other way and Haitian governement, which isn't doing enough to provide jobs for its people. But having your heart filled with hate towards another country, is plain ludicrous. Not to mention, i dont' want to have nasty changes with u, just stating my opinion. 2 million haitians, 1844, and whatever isn't the problem, the root of the problem is in BOTH governments. If the haitian constitution permits, diaspora haitians may someday change the government. DR government allows the diaspora to voice their opinions, so go and become a politician and help ur Patria
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 4:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti topped about 500,000 slaves, the Dominican Republic about 40,000 slaves. Big difference!!!!!
From: United States
Jabao,Lautaro, Dreadlocks, I think this will be the record for amount of posts. Im going for 400+. What do you guys think the max will be.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 4:54 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
arkatype,
No tell me. And please be concise when you correlate it's relevance to todays times. Particuraly, how the mistreatment of Blacks in Haiti during slavery affects Dominican Republic in Modern times. Thanks. P.S. And of course, don't forget to cite your sources.
From: United States
you see, Jacirez, this is why i do not get into full blown discussions of philosophy, because they become circular and indeterminate. there is no real answer, as in mathematics. the fact that people view the same issues from different standpoints has always made me skeptical of philosophy as a pure discipline. morality is not necessarily influenced by a sense of survival, otherwise the wealthy would not steal. unless, of course, in their notion of morality, stealing is good!
From: United States
anonymous, the way things are going, 400 seems to be child's play. the usual suspects are just warming up. maybe 400 by midnight.
Written by: talia, 28 Aug 2008 5:00 PM
From: United States
200+ comments- yeah, some kind of record must've broke! Tell like it is peeps!!!!!
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 5:02 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
dreadlocks,
You say morality is not necessarily influenced by a sense of survival, otherwise the wealthy would not steal. unless, of course, in their notion of morality, stealing is good!
I say it is. I also say the wealthy steal (or otherwise perpetuate their position of power) because in their morality (being relative and all) it is good=moral...
Last word: Read On the Genealogy of Morality by Friedrich Nietzsche...
From: United States
thanks for the heads up , Jacirez, but i find reading philosophy a little ponderous. i will stick to easier stuff. when i want to strain my brain, i will revert to the black art of econometrics. thanks, anyway. and, yes, folks. i guess i called it right at the beginning. this will set new records for opinions wise and silly!
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 5:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC You would need a shrink for your last question directed at me, and i simply think that you are running in circles to no avail. As i stated earlier the past and current immigration problem stemming out of Haiti has to do with the tyrannical style of governance that has permeated haiti since it's inception, Haiti is the only country in the hemisphere that has never had a real period of economic progress and normal democratic led institutions.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 5:18 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Written by: arkatype, 28 Aug 2008 3:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC, The question of race only arises within the historical context, which was a reality in the past. Slavery existed that means that blacks and whites were not equal within societies frame work, but what you got to remember is that every country had a different experience regarding slavery. Not all slave masters treated their slaves the same way. That's where the confusion and anomosities boils over between dominicans and haitians alike.
This is what I needed you to expound on. I am not sure I understand what you are driving at? "That's where the confusion and anomosities boils over between dominicans and haitians alike. " huh???
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 5:22 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
Ok, so after 235+ comments can we agree that this is the best we have come up so far as a possible solution to the illegal Immigrant sprawl at Punta Cana:
a)Build low income houses to the eligible workers already in place
b) In conjunction with the Hoteliers enforce current immigration laws
c) As a look-ahead measure, create enforce a competitive guest-workers program specifically tailored to the Tourism industry
d) Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 5:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC Read my other past post's on this thread regarding slavery! The answer is there.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Jacyrez:
My points of view,
a) building houses for Haitians in Punta Cana wouldn't make any sense at all since I know
many Dominicans there are struggling to meet ends and they are living from check to check, so
we would be discriminating our own people to acomodate Haitians "No way".
b) Sounds legally right and civilized.
c) I'm not sure about this, and remember that by law 80% of the work must be done by 100%
Dominicans.
d) Very sensitive point since both constitution state clear who is citizen and who not, so why bother
to accomodate a specific etnic group just to silent international community.
e) will be good as long as the ineffective, corrupted, ineficient and mediocre goverment in Haiti is willing to do something since most likely they always want to presure the Dominican goverment to take care of their issues and business.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 5:34 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
arkatype,
Are you saying that the anomosities between Dominicans and Haitians impart stem from:
a) there being more Black slaves in Haiti than the Dominican Republic?
b) and that these Black slaves were treated far worse in Haiti than in the Domininican Republic? Like the house negro versus the plantation negro?
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 5:35 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
JRRubirosa,
It does not need be perfect. Just good enough to move us from blaming to action...
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 5:44 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
yumnuk3,
Um, so tell us how you really feel. Your being too evasive.
Written by: jacirez 
, 28 Aug 2008 5:51 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
yumnuk3,
....and please use complete sentences. :-)
Written by: yumnuk3, 28 Aug 2008 6:40 PM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
the wealthy want population control. they want total annihilation of all poor and middle glass. and they will get it god help us.
Written by: arkatype 
, 28 Aug 2008 7:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC You are killing me of laughter! Slave vs. House Negro? WTF.....!
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Yumnuk3:
Business has nothing to do with any other twisting issues that you might have in mind, capitalism is great and therefore creates jobs and oportunities.
From: United States
jacirez, dreadlocks,
i begin to relish the discussions on the site. keep them elevated. immerse yourselves and the intelligent readers in philosophy, logic, dialectic; socrates ,plato, aristotle, kant, hegel, engels, marx etc... maybe, we will force the not so intelligent to get an education. it is the only way to help them think positively.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Annakarina:
At the same time motivating the Haitian resistance against Dominican Republic................
Stay positive sister, way to go.................
Written by: yumnuk3, 28 Aug 2008 9:11 PM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
JRRubirosa I believe in the free market. and I love democracy. and i would move the capital back to the middle class and the poor.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 10:09 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Written by: arkatype, 28 Aug 2008 7:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC You are killing me of laughter! Slave vs. House Negro? WTF.....!
You found me out.! I am just here for your entertainment.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 28 Aug 2008 10:17 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Written by: yumnuk3, 28 Aug 2008 6:40 PM
From: United States
the wealthy want population control. they want total annihilation of all poor and middle glass. and they will get it god help us.
a) Don't the wealthy already have population control?
b) After the wealthy annihilate the poor and the midddle class who is going to do their dirty work for them? Robots? Aliens?
c) Why don't the elite just leave Earth and start a new civilization on Mars? Do any of you have the elite's contact information so I can ask them?
d) Maybe God is helping...the wealthy?
e) Is God a Haitian woman?
Written by: Jander, 28 Aug 2008 10:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Boy has this turned into the biggest bunch of BS I have seen in a long time.
I think some ringers were brought in so DT can tout itself as a legitimate news source.
The ones with all these great ideas and superior education should be here teaching your brother and sisters rather then arguing moot points.
A couple months ago I posted that the street corners here in the Naco-Piantini district were full of Haitian kids begging on the street corners. Soon after , immigration conducted a sweep of the area and for about two months they were gone. Well guess what they are back! I just had a 6 year old trying to wash my windows. These kids are between 6 and 10 years old 10:00 PM alone on the streets
All of you with your fancy words, perfect grammer and text book solutions tell us how do you fix this problem.
You know how you fix it? you roll up your sleeves oropen your wallets .
Bunch of hipocrites and talking heads get your asses down here and help.
.
Written by: , 29 Aug 2008 2:53 AM
From:
"
Written by: arkatype, 28 Aug 2008 4:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti topped about 500,000 slaves, the Dominican Republic about 40,000 slaves. Big difference!!!!!
"
arkatype=greenwave you keep repeating that same message on every thread, can you perhaps clarify or expand your point ?
Written by: antonioj, 29 Aug 2008 2:56 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Written by: arkatype, 28 Aug 2008 4:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti topped about 500,000 slaves, the Dominican Republic about 40,000 slaves. Big difference!!!!!
"
Arkatype would you care to expand on your comment above and the message you want to convey I am always confuse each time you use that quote, what is your point ?
From: United Kingdom
I think this Article will break the record(400+ from another dubious Haitian article). What gets me is; how people can post the same things over and over again.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
they are going to keep doing it till they get it right
From: United States
want to know why, Frank the Tank? because some of them do not have the intellectual assets to discuss anything else. they sit at the pc waiting to see the word Haiti, so they can pounce. same guys all the time, with the same, tired old crap. how many times can you express your distaste for haitians, and in how many ways? guys, get a life. go back to school, if you ever did before. read some other books besides those on the history of hispaniola. it is not too late to seek a rounded education.
From: Haiti
I my gosh this is the record break of DT..Dreadlock I want my prize..We are going in circles and the regular folks are tired of repeating themselves. Arkatype you have this romanticise that the spaniards cared about off breds africans & spanish/french a splash of taino=dominicans. Regardless of the obvious immigration problem in the DR, people like you will always go back to history and focus on the low points to come to a conclusion. This issue is beyond race but obviously reading these comments one knows that it plays a big part. Others have spoken about the high points when relationship between the two countries were good. The fact of the matter is the dominican elites are making so much profit that they dont care to enforce the immigration laws on the books. In the east haitians have become a strong economic power and now this hotelier after getting his project done wants them out. How many times did he contradict himself?
From: Haiti
The haitian diaspora in the states are working hard and participate in haitian affairs unfortunately the corrupt government and foreign interest dont want to change the current situation. If this irresponsible behavior continues, I can say that more haitians will migrate to the DR and more dominicans will migrate to Puerto Rico and then USA. The dominican government has become so dependent on haitian cheap labour that honestly they can't afford to deport all of them. As I said if tourism the bread of the DR wants to continue,illegal haitians will always have a job. Investors need to open these tourist resorts in Haiti and watch them go back home and watch a flux of dominicans also move west in search of jobs but in the dominican state of mind..they want to gfet to Nueva Yol. As long as the dr government can drive by in their jeeps looking high above the domincians fanatics immigrants themselves in the usa will have to just deal with it or topple their government and we know cont.
From: Haiti
dominican in the diaspora know their place in society in DR. Arkatype why not talk to Victor Cassanova and other parties to do something. I am sure they would take one look at you and have you escorted out. What would dominicans of your type would do if haitians weren't there to uplift your low self esteem?
From: United States
Jabao, you do not get your prize till we hit 400. but, i have a better idea for a thread, which will hit 10,000 posts. i am going to start a non-specific thread, with just the word HAITI. nothing else. one word. then watch guys tee off!!!
From: Haiti
Dread, I am LMAO..and my word is INVASION. 20k post minimum...
Written by: jacirez 
, 29 Aug 2008 12:08 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
Fellow readers,
This is the new hot story: Once powerful Dominican party flounders between fusion, oblivion
Check it out on the front page...
Written by: arkatype 
, 29 Aug 2008 12:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Antonioj can you read? do you lack reading comprehension? are you retarded? are you a drunkard? Lastly are you a derelict, if you can't understand a simple sentence then you deserve to live in your own planet.
From: United States
well then Jabao, let us combine INVASION with HAITI, and we should top 30,000!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
how is the record coming call me when you hit 300
Written by: USADR, 29 Aug 2008 12:27 PM
From: United States
JACIREZ,
1) If you don't think Dominican Republic has a problem with illegal Haitian immigration than I don't you have an all around grasp of the situation.
2) You seem to have an idealistic view of Canada and its immigration, but a better analogy would be the USA and the current problems it has had with their illegal immigration.
I've seen public hospitals shut down due to the sheer amount of uninsured illegal's giving birth.
Written by: arkatype 
, 29 Aug 2008 12:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The haitian diaspora is living in some runned down ghetto in flatbush brooklyn, they can't do nothing because the haitian goverment is corrupt. "So what's new" And ofcourse they are making money out of dirt poor hatians " everybody does since slavery." And now haitians are following suite they are taking yolas to Puerto Rico also. What Haiti needs is investors, "Who's going to invest in a place practically runned by illiterate starving negro savages." Then like that all the haitians will go back to Haiti? "and do what they know how to do best destroy everything in sight" LOL!!!!!
From: United States
arkatype, you are such a moron it is painful to even respond to you. have you ever heard of Rockland County? take a ride up there, if they will let you in without calling 911. you will see that there are areas up there such as New City, which are teeming with Haitians. by the way, houses up there probably start at half a million per.
From: Haiti
Arkatype, you are a clown and belong in the bin. You can't utter nothing out of your mouth without degrading Haitians. I know you are obsessed with us and have nothing to offer. You are doing more damage to the image of dominican in the diaspora. Foreignors reading this see how demented some spigger that got a chance to live in teh greatest country in the world can be so naive. I refuse to go down that route degrading a whole nation because it the end alot of innocent people will be offended. Wow are teh worse filth I've ever encountered. I pranskter with a false sense of pride. Stay in the Hieghts.
Written by: JEM237, 29 Aug 2008 12:56 PM
From: United States, Newark, NJ
"1) If you don't think Dominican Republic has a problem with illegal Haitian immigration than I don't you have an all around grasp of the situation.
2) You seem to have an idealistic view of Canada and its immigration, but a better analogy would be the USA and the current problems it has had with their illegal immigration.
I've seen public hospitals shut down due to the sheer amount of uninsured illegal's giving birth. "
Thanks for saying this USADR, I posted something in response to Jacirez similar to this in this thread but it looks like most didn't read it. Creating a path toward legalization will only increase more Illegal immigration from Haiti. If the govt in DR did their job right they would fine all these companies in DR that would rather hire an illegal Haitian vs. a Dominican so that they wont have to pay them what they deserve. I hear people come here and say that Haitians are doing the jobs that Dominicans won't do. The truth is, a hungry Dominican that has a family
Written by: AzuaNYC, 29 Aug 2008 12:57 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Dear arkatype,
I respect you for being so passionate about the illegal immigration problem and I respect your opinions. I understand that this affects you deeply more than most of us because you live in the Dominican Republic, you see everyday how illegal immigration affects the island in a positive and negative manner. However, can you please refrain from using denegrating language to describe other human beings. Thanks so much, I know you understand and will comply.
Yesteday, you gave a brief history of race relations in Haiti and the Domininican Republic for the benefit of us all. Thank you. However, I am not retarded and I like FranktheTank did not grasp your point.
Written by: JEM237, 29 Aug 2008 12:58 PM
From: United States, Newark, NJ
(cont) to feed will take on a job that supposedly only a Haitian would do. Same goes for the those that claim the same thing about the illegals in the U.S. that do the jobs that "Americans" wouldn't do, the truth is that if when money is tight, you have two options: You either take whatever job you can get for the time being, or you resort to selling drugs or other illicit activities. Not all people will choose to go down the illicit path. Jacirez, DR is not in economic shape to take on another countries problems. Do you see other countries with Dominican populations both legal and illegal, coming to solve DR's economic problems? No. I think rather than only making these claims here to Dominicans, you propose your ideas to the Haitian diaspora in the U.S. ( who has many well-to-do Haitians) and who in my opinion don't do enough for their country, no offense to any Haitians but that's how I see it, if I'm wrong then please correct me.
From: United States
AzuaNYC, i take it that you assume he has a point.
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Aug 2008 1:04 PM
From: United States, NYC
Arkatype: All Dominicans in NYC live in middle to upper-income neighborhoods huh?
I'm willing to bet that a large portion of the Haitian diaspora is better educated and lives better than you.
I hope to god that your life does not hang in the hands of a Haitian doctor one day.
Do you know how many young Haitans come in contact with Dominicans everyday. Reading your rants can cuase some serious HATRED in people.
I hope it never comes to bite you in the a*s one day.
But, then I guess that is the beauty of anonimity.
From: United States
"a large portion ", kmnupe? how about "most"?
Written by: arkatype 
, 29 Aug 2008 1:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dreadlocks Have you heard of Suffolk County, Long Island? There are dominicans that live there. Have you heard of Bronxdale in Westchester County? There are dominicans that live there too, and in many other nice suburban area's. So stop thinking in your limited mind that dominican's live in the same place, it just show's your anti-dominican rhetoric towards everything dominican. Spew your rants on a haitian forum you pathetic beast. And to Toilet Bowl A.K.A. JabaoHaitian well let's just say that you are full of yourself.
Written by: JEM237, 29 Aug 2008 1:13 PM
From: United States, Newark, NJ
Knmupe, you are right there are many educated and well to do Haitians in U.S and elsewhere in the world. But don't make the assumptions that you are making about Dominicans in the U.S.; Dominicans actually have the highest percentage of college grads out of all Hispanic groups, and let me tell you that the chances of running into a Dominican doctor in the U.S. are just as good as running into a Haitian one. In the tri-state area you will find many Dominicans in prominent positions in good companies. And anyone that comes onto here to read these rants and develop hatred as a result is purely ignorant. No one should lump everyone from a particular country under the same umbrella. Dreadlocks, im surprised to see that you have such limited views regarding the DR community in the U.S., that's the way I see it in you agreeing with what Knmupe said. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Aug 2008 1:16 PM
From: United States, NYC
JEM237: You're right that Dominicans should get jobs for decent wages but, undocumented immigrants doing jobs that locals won't do IS not a myth in any Country.
There's a sizeable portion of Dominicans in DR that won't do jobs fit for an Haitiano. It's just the way it is.
From: United States
arkatype, you are such a fool that, if you had a brain, you would be dangerous. it was you, my imbecilic neanderthal, who asserted that the haitian diaspora all lived in brooklyn. i was just bringing it to your limited attention that they also live in upscalse areas. and suufolk county is not " a nice suburban area". it is a county which has both good and bad areas. brentwood is no prize; huntington and places like port jefferson are different. i do not think you qualify to give me a demography lesson on new york! what i have forgotten about the United States, you will never live long enough to learn!
From: United States, New York City
"Dominicans actually have the highest percentage of college grads out of all Hispanic groups"
I know that we make up the largest single group currently enrolled in the CUNY system but I'm going to have to kindly ask you to show me proof of the statement I just quoted from you. Last I checked the cubans had the highest overall rate of college grads among hispanics here in the states.
From: United States
JEM, would you care to point out one instance in which i displayed a limited view of dominicans in the usa? i am surprised you would say that, because, especially in this thread, i have sought to stay away from the food fight. refresh me on this, please.
From: United States, New York City
"There's a sizeable portion of Dominicans in DR that won't do jobs fit for an Haitiano."
You're mistaken. What I've seen is that a sizeable portion of Dominicans in DR won't do any jobs for the SAME wages typically payed to haitian illegals.
Written by: arkatype 
, 29 Aug 2008 1:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dreadlock's or "Citizen of the World?" or happily ashamed to be haitian!!!!! I will decimate you in geography i will turn you into a mud cookie then piss on you for laughs.
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Aug 2008 1:32 PM
From: United States, NYC
JEM237: My sister , with all due respect, you misread my post.
A genius alluded to the fact that diaspora Haitians live in the ghetto. I made no comparison to Haitian and Dominican communities.
That post was directed at an insecure individual who may be lacking in the very eyes of the people he chooses to disrespect.
I went tocollege with many Dominicans(friends, acquaintances), dated dominican ladies, have Dominican cousins and in-laws in Santo-Domingo.
You'll never hear me make blanket derogatory remarks about the Dominican community and any group of people for that matter.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 29 Aug 2008 1:36 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Saludos arkatype,
How would you solve the CURRENT illegal immigration problem in the Dominican Republic? Can you please tell me what you would ideally want the Dominican Republic's immigration policy to look like?
From: United States
you are hilarious, arkatype. happy in ignorance, but entertaining, nonetheless. you never fail to prove the theory that stupidity is unbounded. and JEM, i have taken sufficient time to read and understand the dominican condition in the usa, that i think i have a working grasp. the most elementary fact is that second generation dominicans are excelling in academic achievements, as opposed to the first generation. in 2000, only 17% of dominicans in the usa had a professional job. in 8 yeras, this has changed exponentially. also, per capita incomes range from state to state. dominicans had the highest per capita income of all hispanic groups in florida (yes, i said florida), but the lowest in rhode island. as of last year, because of the extreme discrepancy between the earnings of the poorest dominicans, and those of the professionals, dominicans were second from the bottom in the immigrant groups in terms of per capita income, with colombia at the bottom. that is going to change rapidly
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Aug 2008 1:47 PM
From: United States, NYC
CIBAENO: I can agree with you about the wages.
I was mainly replying to Jem regarding individuals that will never do certain jobs for certain wages because it is beneath them.
Agricultural work in the countryside of DR is not a favorite of some Dominicans. They would rather go to Santiago and Santo-Domingo for better opportunities.
By the way , I read that you went to my friend's restaurant KOMBIT. You missed the owner's(Pascale, Marise's sister) 40th B-day party 2 weeks ago.
From: United States, New York City
"By the way , I read that you went to my friend's restaurant KOMBIT. You missed the owner's(Pascale, Marise's sister) 40th B-day party 2 weeks ago."
Funny you should mention that. My wife was telling me just the other day that she wanted to return.
Written by: arkatype 
, 29 Aug 2008 1:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC, I will deport all of them back to there desert jungle, and build a double wall measuring 50 feet tall running all along the border with look out towers on every mile with cameras, in the middle of these two walls which extend by only 20 feet i will fill it up with alligators from the everglades Florida, and feed them raw meat so when a slick slightly retarded haitian tries to cross over Yes!!!!! he's eaten alive. And ofcourse I will put a military fleet of ships and fast boats near the coastal area's around the border region in the south and north and that would be my plan if i was in office.
From: United States
JEM, i re-read the thread and i see where you could have been confused by what i was trying to say. i believe it has to do with the post regarding "most of them". i simply meant that most haitians are smarter than arkatype.
Written by: JEM237, 29 Aug 2008 1:57 PM
From: United States, Newark, NJ
Cibaeño75:
I had originally gotten this information regarding Dominican college student rates over the news (surprisingly it was from the 6:30 news on Univision) and I never forgot it because it made me very happy to hear. However, I came across the same or similar statements throughout the years. I found this one document that pretty much says what I said and here's the link:
http://faculty.tc.columbia.edu/upload/flr9/Dominicans-2000.doc I am pretty sure the percentage is now much higher actually. It doesn't specifically include Cubans but I think it speaks volume if our percentages are still much higher than the Mexican American and Puerto-Rican American whom have a much bigger population compared to Dominican Americans.
And I'll be more specific next time; I should have said Dominican Americans and not Dominicans, I guess.
Dreadlocks and Knumpe, I retract what I said before about any of you. My apologies, I misunderstood, glad you clarified. :-D
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Arcatype:
Whatch your back with the Haitian resistance group..........................They are pissed and hate Dominicans to death.
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Aug 2008 2:04 PM
From: United States, NYC
JEM237: I also would like to give my opinion on your statement "Anyone that comes here to read these posts and develop HATRED as a result is ignorant"
The spoken word is never HARMLESS. On print, over the airwaves or microphone. It can move people to great heights or destruction.
PEACE.
Written by: arkatype 
, 29 Aug 2008 2:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
JR RUBIROSA, And like brainless apes, they are quick to change their rhetoric when answering to a female!
From: United States
no apologies necessary, JEM. that article from columbia/edu is very enlightening. everyone should take a look at it. by the way, i figured it out, at long last. arkatype is actually a Haitian saboteur. he is trying to discredit dominicans, by portraying them as cro magnon nitwits. he feels that if he posts his tripe, readers will wax quizzical about the intelligence level of dominicans. so, arkatype, now that i have exposed your scheme, do you think you can find it within yourself to make one intelligent remark?
Written by: jacirez 
, 29 Aug 2008 2:13 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
USADR,
The problems in the U.S have more to do with a weak economy, declining productivity, high unemployment and a failed fiscal policy.
My view of Canada is not idealized, on the contrary, I've lived all over North America, including the U.S and I can tell you the issue today in the U.S is more economic than ethnic...
Remember the 90s? I do not recall the issue of immigration being an election topic. Correct me if I'm wrong and I will stand corrected.
Written by: AzuaNYC, 29 Aug 2008 2:14 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Arcatype:
Very interesting ideas indeed. You don't have to be in office to do something about the illegal immigration in Dominican Republic. Why don't you take action. May I suggest that you send your proposal to the president as a first step to change.
Palacio Nacional
Av. México esq. Dr. Delgado
Santo Domingo, República Dominicana
Tel.: (809) 695-8000
www.presidencia.gov.do
"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country." U.S. President John F. Kennedy made the speech during inaugural ceremonies on January 20, 1961.
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Aug 2008 2:17 PM
From: United States, NYC
CIBAENO: E-mail me. They have events occassionally Phamous1@yahoo.com
I believe that with education, fresh ideas and partnership, Haitians and Dominicans can start anew.
At least, those willing.
Written by: jacirez 
, 29 Aug 2008 2:20 PM
From: Iran, Zähedän
USADR,
As an addendum to my previous comments, consider Dubai (The largest of the Emirates in the U.A.E), the expatriate community makes up the majority of the Emirate residents; yet, we do not see the local Emirati taking to the street in protest of the clear invasion. Why is that? Can it be because with a population of 2.262 million it has a $46 Billion economy?
Written by: AzuaNYC, 29 Aug 2008 2:28 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Jander,
You said:
"All of you with your fancy words, perfect grammer and text book solutions tell us how do you fix this problem.
You know how you fix it? you roll up your sleeves oropen your wallets .
Bunch of hipocrites and talking heads get your asses down here and help."
I agree with you, the Dominican diaspora has to take an active role in the Dominican Republic's economic, social, etc. progress. I am starting a non-profit organization in the Dominican Republic. Can you assist me? What have you done so far?
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
AzuaNYC:
Post your adress and information and let's see maybe few people can agree with your proposal and go the extra mile.
From: United States
i was hoping to be number 300; Rubi beat me to it.
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Aug 2008 2:40 PM
From: United States, NYC
ARKATYPE: Man, you're a genius.
Seriously, you made me laugh.
Unfortunately, the border guards will shoot the alligators, make shoes and belts out of them and sell them to the Haitians for a good price.
CESFRONT can use a guy like you. You can get by with 10k-18K pesos a month, right?
Written by: arkatype 
, 29 Aug 2008 3:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Kmnupe, Dont worry about dominicans, worry about haitians starving to death in your self made desert paradise!
Written by: AzuaNYC, 29 Aug 2008 3:04 PM
From: United States, Washington Heights, NYC
Written by: JRRubirosa, 29 Aug 2008 2:33 PM
From: United States
"AzuaNYC:
Post your adress and information and let's see maybe few people can agree with your proposal and go the extra mile."
I don't have a website yet. Do you want me to forward you my business plan? Is that what you are asking for? My project is not Haitian related! Are you still interested in seeing my proposal? My project is geared to helping Dominican women and girls. I am really troubled by the prostitution situation. I am working on a program to build self-esteem, integrity, dignity and all that other good stuff. Part of the program will be based on fostering education and the love of reading and learning. I want girls to learn skills, have a chess club, knitting club, softball team etc. It is in the premilinary stages. I have sent books for the reading project but I am looking for a location. Do you have any ideas? So do you want to help me???
Written by: JEM237, 29 Aug 2008 3:24 PM
From: United States, Newark, NJ
Kmnupe, you said:
"The spoken word is never HARMLESS. On print, over the airwaves or microphone. It can move people to great heights or destruction."
I agree with you, words can be very painful and harmful, however developing hatred for an entire group of people based on few peoples rants is ignorant and does not justify developing hatred.
You said:
"Undocumented immigrants doing jobs that locals won't do IS not a myth in any Country."
It is a myth to say that locals won't do these jobs because it is plain and simply not true. Like cibaeño75 said, just like Dominicans won't do the jobs illegal Haitians do for the same wages that illegal Haitians do, neither will U.S. citizens or legal U.S. residents do the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing for the same wages that these poor people are being paid. No, U.S. citizen or legal resident will not work long hours in a pizzeria for just $2.00 an hour. You'd have to pay them at least minimum wage. This is really what it's about.
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Aug 2008 3:41 PM
From: United States, NYC
ARKATYPE: You fake tiguere. Starving people anywhere in our world is of concern to me.
If people's misfortunes fill you with glee and make you warm and fuzzy inside, hey enjoy the rest of your miserable life.
I will not be addressing you anymore.
Like I said before CESFRONT is hiring. Make your country proud and at the same time, you get to kick some Haitian as*s.
You'd be the envy of all your lackey friends.
I've been reading on this site for a while now and out of respect (as a visitor), I'll refrain from petty squabbles.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
AzuaNYC:
Sounds good to me and would suggest You to design the program and with some good contacts you can get in touch with companies in DR that might have in their budget some money allocation that might take in consideration the kind of program that you are planning to start up.
Is hard but with the right planning, timing and contacts could be a good blueprint for other positive projects, I'm more inclined to the enviroment and in the near future would love to start my own project too.
Written by: arkatype 
, 29 Aug 2008 4:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Kmnupe, Do you really think i care about your opinion! Again care for the starving haitians in Haiti, that's your country "right"!
Written by: yumnuk3, 29 Aug 2008 8:36 PM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
ARKATYPE: did you eat paint chips as a kid ?
From: United States
Arkatype,
Not all haitians live in flatbush, contrary to popular belief. I have this lovely website for you. It shows where most haitians live, you can also gather statistics on Dominicans. Please look at where most Haitians live. contrary to popular belief most haitians don't live in flatbush. They are all over the tristate. Take a particular look at NJ and see how many haitians living in suburban neighborhoods. Take a look between where haitians and dominicans live, come back and let me know who live in more suburban neighborhoods. Stop trying to pick fights with haitians, try to find a solution to the problem. Bashing haitians isn't going to help the current situation. You are lucky enough that you can go back to DR and possible make some moves in the politics. Haitian Americans are not that fortunate, soo instead of making such biased statements, take a look and see what you can do for your country.
From: United States
yumnuk3, he still eats paint chips as an adult, if indeed he is one.
From: Dominican Republic
Only if Rom1804 wasn't banned from this site he would have shut arkatype and Rubi down a long time ago he would say something along those lines and I quote " arkatype you Sir are an idiot"
Then he would have turned to Rubi and said " Rubi like it or not The Haitians will take over DR one way or another and we won't even use an Army to do it, not a single shot will be fired"
P.S. Yes more Haitians do live in the Suburb than Dominicans.
Written by: santiago, 3 Sep 2008 4:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
to JRRUBIROSA
Don't get it................ why are u and others fighting over nonesense.....why????????????? Haitians/ Dominicans....same shit. The difference is that one side is going backwards do to the lack of efforts by their government. The other going forward do to their unity. One side speak french and creole, and the other side speak a broken spanish.
Haitians go to the Dominican Republic for a better life.............Dominicans go to Haiti for a better live.... what's the problem. Not all the Haitians here are as bad as you portrait them....... Most of them are hard working people. Don't know too much about Haitians, but I did go to school long enough to know that the WORLD OWES them their FREEDOM. If it wasn't for them we would have still been SLAVES TODAY. The world has a problem with most Haians because they practice witchcraft/ voodoo whatever you wanna call it, some if not most of them have no class or education level.
How many Dominicans do witchcraf/ voodoo????
Written by: arkatype 
, 3 Sep 2008 11:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
??????????????/???????????????????????????????????????
Written by: Pepe32, 6 Sep 2008 5:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
First fault is with the Dominican government that allows it
Second fault is with the the Dominican Businessmen that allow and encourage it to avoid paying decent wages to DOMINICANS!
Third fault to the Haitian government that passively encourages the ILLEGAL immigration to relieve itself of the burden of being a failed state that can't stand on it's own.
Now that the blame has been laid it does not change the fact that the Haitians present a social,political and demographic danger to the Dominican Republic and that as some have posted the strongest pressure should be put on the government and Businesses that employ Haitians to the detriment of Dominicans.
Written by: Pepe32, 6 Sep 2008 5:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Only the rich and powerful benefit from the cheap labour of Haitians but the majority of the nation is only brought backwards while our already fragile institutions are overburdened by a massive influx of extremely backwards individuals.
The border needs to be shut.mass deportations begun and then we can determine as a SOVEREIGN NATION who WE decide should come according to the needs of the labour market .
The politicians need to fell the heat and Dominicans need to pressure businesses to employ Dominicans and not illegals who will work for anything!!
Unfortunately I believe nothing will happen until we have massive bloodshed and by then it too late.
Pepe
From: United States
carbelk99; stop using your merchandise ; you are killing your profits!
Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Sep 2008 7:43 PM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
dreadlocks, Glue Sniffing and Pills
From: United States
It is inevitable and hard not to talk about Haiti without the racial issue coming out. It is obvious, Haiti is an impoverished black country, a fact that can not be denied. However, it is one thing to be black, but to blame problems because you belong to a particular race is something else. However, I can see how difficult it would be not to discuss such a controversial subject without convoluting race with other issues and not sounding racist. This is repeatedly seen in most of the comments made, some very blunt and explicit while others are subtle and implicit. Personally, I don't mind Haitian immigration every country needs it and benefits from an imported labor force, but it must be done legally. What we have now is total caos. In order for it to work, it must be done in an organized manner, so that everyone would benefit. Even Trujillo with his hatred of Haitians, was their largest employer and it breifly worked for him.
From: United States
We must strictly regulate and enforce immigration laws and Haitians must respect our sovereignty. If we continue to allow illegal Haitian immigration as it is today, in the long run it will hurt us, destroy our culture and country. The 2mil illegal Haitians + their offsprings already represent aproximately 25% of the Dom. population. No country in the World has such an disproportionate number of immigrants coming just from one particular country, not even the US. Haiti has begun to fall and they will take us down with them if we allow it to happen. No one fully understands or has realized the severity of this situation and what affect it will have on the DR. It is an emergency, a red alert, the Haitian invasion is a passive terrorist attack on Dominican territory. Authorities must take drastic measures until a solution is found. Gandhi was able to defeat the British with passive resistance and the Haitians are doing the same and the DR is not even a fraction of a British world power.
From: United States
I have heard people comment about why Dominicans complain about the Haitians, when there are plenty of illegal Dominicans in PR and in the US. Well the key word is plenty, not disproportionate. Yes there are Dominicans all over the world, but we represent just a small fraction of immigrants in other countries and we don't immigrate to another poor country. We are well distributed and live in many countries. We don't just go one place just to give birth. With Puerto Rico we have a very similar culture and can assimilate quite well. Plus PR is wealthy compared to the DR and they like us more then they hate us. Dominicans return to their native country after many years, Haitians do not. They have no country to return to and many remain impoverish. And Dominicans and Haitians are not the same thing, eventhough we live on the same island. We are both two very different cultures, but at the rate we are going it would not surprise me that eventually we will be the next Spanish Haiti.
Written by: juliony, 3 Oct 2008 9:34 AM
From: United States, New YOrk
Que los deporten.. thats the solution.. it is time to clean up the DR. too many illegals immigrant
in such small island.
It is an eyesore and the same as in California with the illegal homeless Mexicans
But they need to control this and create decent living conditions for the workers.
They say they can't control them after they get off work, well thats to be expected they have no where to go. Put up an area with latrines showers and shelter away from the main tourist area's.
No one wants to deal with this social problem when they are on vacation..
We can't allow this massive "People tsunami" to destroy the image and business in Punta Cana just to please ONG"S and everybody else.
Seems to be that the FFAA will have to act sooner than later before the "Balcanization" occur.
"Where is the president?????
God forgive me but if DR becomes Haitianized to the point of no return.... I will forget DR and never return!
So the 1,000,000 Dollar $$$$ question is why if Dominicas are illiterate, stupid and lazy as you express in your latest comments , your country and your people are the ones living in the 18 century??
You try to be educated, decent and diplomatic sometimes but at the end like somebody call you, your true colors show, We don't need your cheap rhetoric and teachings when in reality the Haitian people are the mediocre no us.
Me fascina tu vocabulario barato de chopas de barrio y gente barata como tu gente que solo sabe llevar enfermedades, salvajismo y creencias de brujeria barata.
No quiero discutir estupideces contigo pues gracias a Dios nunca he tenido que vivir en barrios marginados como mencionas tu con tu idioma negril de Haitiano barato como son la mayoria de uds, para muestra solo hay que verlos alla que se defecan y orinan donde quiera como pequenos animalitos salvajes.
Sigue engrandeciendote con tus creencia infantiles de que conoces a la aristocracia de alla cuando tu eres un simple y chopo Haitiano como la mayoria que tenemos alla.
You truly believe that I live in Washington heights?, "dude" you are very biased, dumb and nearsighted when in comes to knowledge about Dominicans in NY.
We are not like Haitians that only think about eating, defecating and thinking like predators from the 18 century.
Be careful that they have their little puppy "Made in Haiti" next to them, I call him Mr. Wikipedia because he is always posting stuff to be a forrest gump.
What both nations really need is to TRUJILLO and PAPA DOC to comeback from the dead as a 2headed monster and take over the island.
No. YOU and that other clown with all these racist diatribes are a disgrace to humanity in general and to the Dominican people in particular. Da asco y verguenze leer semejante cosa. Acaso ustedes no se dan cuenta pero nuestro pueblo NO ES UN PUEBLO DE BLANCOS. I have money that says I'm whiter then most of the posters who constantly post crap on here (and no I do not consider myself white) yet I don't feed into this nonsense. Get over yourselves and see your people for what they are and if you can't accept it fine. Deny us. I'd rather that then some of you opening your mouths and as a result giving all Dominicans a bad name with your shear stupidity.
Good for you buddy but I don't need to be forced to side with your comments, if you truly believe so then move to Haiti and help your own people over there.
In the meantime i honor the memory of Duarte, Sanchez y Mella not Boyer and Louvertore.
This page is dedicated specially to both of you: http://www.idg.org.do/capsulas/diciembre2005/diciembre200510.htm
Enjoy, ;-)
Instead of constantly insulting the haitian people why don't you insult the clowns who are employing them? Why don't you start a campaign to vilify those that facilitate work for illegals? You won't do such a thing because it does not encompass your anti-haitian ideology very neatly. This article plainly states as to WHY there are haitians in the zone in question; because there is employment for them there. The ones doing the hiring, those are the culprits that should recieve the ire of those who are bothered by Haitian immigration (and believe me that includes me). It's the same with balaguer. All his life anti-haitian rhetoric but during his presidency there was no shortage of them to cut cane. He did nothing to stop there ever increasing numbers back then. This problem didn't come out of nowhere. He was as full of crap as you guys are.
Thanks a lot for your invaluable input against the know everything group.
Very clear and articulate comments "Mocano", I'm 50% too.....LOL
Can we be cool for about 10 seconds here please. The way I see it is Haitians in Punta Cana who are doing business should be obligated to have some kind of taxation or give money to the authority where they are doing business. And I'm sure there is such a thing in DR. Its the Dominican govts. choice and responsibility to ask for portion of the selling. At least for the sake of someone's health he talks of testing and treatment for malaria and fumigation. On some cases I agree with Veloz's objections and he has to foster and care for this sector of tourism that has helped to booster the economy- its his responsibility along with Prez. L. who I hope doesn't contine to sleep on this.
I'm 50 % Santiago, 50% Moca but I was borned and raised in Santiago....
Santiaguero de pura cepa...................................
Once again your brain is attached to your A.. on your comments, who told you that i belong to the group that you mentioned regarding Mccain winning as a president.
Regarding Arcatype comments He is just trying to educate your inferior haitian mentality that believes in superiority of 18 century slaves behavior.
Can we be cool for about 15 seconds here please. The way I see it is Haitians in Punta Cana who are doing business should be obligated to have some kind of taxation or give money to the authority where they are doing business. And I'm sure there is such a thing in DR. Its the Dominican govts. choice and responsibility to ask for portion of the selling. At least for the sake of someone's health he talks of testing and treatment for malaria and fumigation. On some cases I agree with Veloz's objections and he has to foster and care for this sector of tourism that has helped to booster the economy- its his responsibility along with Prez. L. who I hope doesn't contine to sleep on this.
En cuanto a ti, Arka, por si no lo sabias, Antonio Duvergé SI tenía sangre africana en sus venas, ya que sus padres eran gente de color (gens de couleur), una clase diferente en sí misma (por lo cual eran despreciados por tus queridos "grand blancs"). Así que, mi pana, el que necesita ir a la escuela y dejar de leer paquitos eres tú. What a jack*ss.
PS: For your (and Rubi's) dismay, if it weren't for Duvergé's military prowess, the DR would have never survived past 1844. ¿Tienen algo más que decir?
Can we be cool for about 15 seconds here please. The way I see it is Haitians in Punta Cana who are doing business should be obligated to have some kind of taxation or give money to the authority where they are doing business. And I'm sure there is such a thing in DR. Its the Dominican govts. choice and responsibility to ask for portion of the selling. At least for the sake of someone's health he talks of testing and treatment for malaria and fumigation. On some cases I agree with Veloz's objections and he has to foster and care for this sector of tourism that has helped to booster the economy- its his responsibility along with Prez. L. who I hope doesn't contine to sleep on this.
The Haitians also generate a dynamic economic movement among themselves but the areas where those workers live are overcrowded, which also concerns hoteliers as to the effects as a tourism attraction. "They don’t leave one peso here. They send money to their families or spend on prostitutes and rum. You will you never see a Haitian in a formal business, in a restaurant, or anything like that."
That Hooker and Rum money contributes to the economy...sort of..
Loitering is looked down upon anywhere in the world so if you have a goup of people with no means and are panhandling or harassing the tourists and driving away business you have to do somthng.
JH: why you keep missing the target over and over buddy, for 200th time let me clarify something with you, I'm sorry to let let you down but will emphasize to your discomfort that I don't belong to that class, came legally to the USA and i don't need to worry about being deported, last but not least since I came to this great country never lived in Washington heights and my life is perfectly comfortable in all aspects.
On your side guess things are not going well, maybe You go and pay on those internet centers and waist your little money letting out your envy against dominicans, maybe take public transportation to go to do construction and from time to time cross the border illegaly to see your family.
We don't play in the same league and I don't belong to your ghetto class...
Lautaro is 100 % Haitian and never has the guts to admit it because he is very shameful of his origins.
Can anyone name a single Government Agency that is doing it's job? Can anyone name a President that had a Government that actually that had Govenment Agencies that did their job?
From: Dominican Republic
Im starting to believe that too. It reminds me of someone else called Dreadlocks that claims to be a "WORLD CITIZEN?" whatever that is, and most likely is haitian or haitian american.
"
I am checking in !! Very entertaining “tu papa esta aqui Rubi asi ta te kieta y k te calles", Lautaro I will be going to Yucatan this Saturday, I promise to post some pictures.
Jabao are you saying that Rubi can not write proper English ? well I was hoping his Spanish was better, any who I have seen some improvement lately.
Every progressive Dominicans that do not agree with your gibberish are Haitians, you guys are the lowest human living cells.
(scum = (Greenwave=Akartype=Onde vert=Carbkl99=Rubi))
We are intrinsically linked economically, historically and culturally. The issue at hand in Punta Cana is not about illegal "Piti" squatters threatening to obliterate the illusion of the Dominican Republic being a forward-looking tourist destination (and it is an illusion, let me tell you); but of socially outcast human beings trying to survive with dignity in a hostile environment.
Too bad that we (Dominicans) are so intellectually challenged as to be incapable of understanding this clear fact. Too bad we have not shed the peasant mentality that has kept us on the fringe of 21st century...Shame on US!!!
We are intrinsically linked economically, historically and culturally. The issue at hand in Punta Cana is not about illegal "Piti" squatters threatening to obliterate the illusion of the Dominican Republic being a forward-looking tourist destination (and it is an illusion, let me tell you); but of socially outcast human beings trying to survive with dignity in a hostile environment.
Too bad that we (Dominicans) are so intellectually challenged as to be incapable of understanding this clear fact. Too bad we have not shed the peasant mentality that has kept us on the fringe of 21st century...Shame on US!!!
Written by: jacirez, 27 Aug 2008 6:20 PM
From: Canada, Northern Alberta, Canada
"
Amazing this is the last place one earth I expect a Dominican to be living... hmm Northern Alberta, not sure oil resonate in my mind.
Really??? We are scum because We care about our country, then what is left for Haitians like you that want to destroy the existence of our constitution and legacy from the 3 founding fathers.
It's easy for Haitians like you to point the finger to our sovereign country and downplay your massive and big poverty, diseases and backwardness export.
Main issue is that this group of business people are concerned about your people destroying, defecating and peeing all over their property since i seem myself your monkey behavior.
Racism and defending our country are 2 separate issues.............
jacirez, 27 Aug 2008 6:40 PM
From: Canada, Northern Alberta, Canada
I live near the largest oil deposit in the world(the Athabasca Formation)...Bigger than Saudi Arabia (and the Orinoco Tar Formation in Venezuela)...To my knowledge, I am the only Dominican in this area :-)
"
I heard Kids working at Macdonald are getting paid $20 an hour. I guess you will be retiring easily after 5 years. I am confident there must be some mexicano there as well. I am from Toronto Canada before the housing boom in year 2003, I was close to move to Calgary, well nice talking to you neighbor.
(this is me speaking slowly, so you can understand me),
The Coup d'etat away analogy refers to the fragility of our so-called democracy. Despite the fact that the Juan Bosch's government of 1963 was the last democratically elected government to be overthrown, we must agree that the quality of our democratic institutions since are fragile to say the least.
Under these circumstances it only takes a Coup d'etat or a similar civil trauma to throw the country into chaos. Add to this the social, racial and economic problems bubbling under the surface; and you have a recipe for a failed state. Remember Yugoslavia after the death of Marshall Tito? Ivory Coast after Félix Houphouët-Boigny?
Can you honestly say that our Dominican Democratic Institutions (Legislative, Executive, Judicial) have matured to the level of 21st century democracies?
Can you honestly say that our racial, social and economic traditions are in par with Duarte, Sanchez y Mella dreams and aspirations? Can yo
JRRubirosa, 27 Aug 2008 6:48 PM
From: United States
Dreadlocks:
Racism and defending our country are 2 separate issues.............
"
Rubi, can I congratulate you?, I want to emphasize that, since I was critical of your writing, keep it up.
They have to take control , but they need the outside labor to meet the demand.
Like the article says they have the furniture and the buses for the immigration department but haven't used them. So hopefully when tourists decide to go elsewhere becuase they hae a had a bad experience or or a friend said don't go there it sucks. They will wake up.. No one wants Malaria!
Every nationality is represented here. If you are ever up this way, look me up...
Caucasian
African-American
Hispanic
Asian
Dominican ?
I will try again, ssssssslowly:
At this point in our history (2008, in case you didn't know), the concept of nationality is almost irrelevant. For the countries sharing the island of Hispaniola this is more so. You know the tenet of the Chaos Theory: If a butterfly flaps its wings in Beijing, it rains in New York? Well, this is the world we live in. Knowing this, Haiti's problems are Dominican Republic's problems, and vice versa.
..and the issue of race, well that's just stupid. In today's world, you rise and fall by the content of your character; not by the color of your skin.
I agree there is a problem in Punta Cana; but it has nothing to do with race or nationality; but everything to do with economic opportunities.
I REPEAT:
Can you honestly say that our Dominican Democratic Institutions (Legislative, Executive, Judicial) have matured to the level of 21st century democracies?
Can you honestly say that our racial, social and economic traditions are in par with Duarte, Sanchez y Mella dreams and aspirations? Can you?
thanks Mr. PHD with your uplifting comments, once again separate issues like race and business so you and your people can grow up.
There is no such thing as a "racial" issue. It is ALL economics.
--The Nazi Holocaust was underpinned by the great economic depression of 1929 and Germany's war reparations
---The Genocide of Rwanda was preceded by the worst harvest in Rawanda/Burundi history
--The recent anti-immigration rants of the U.S Conservative media coincides with the lowest downturn in U.S GDP since the early eighties
I live in what is arguably the city with the highest per-capita in North America; you would be surprised at how well we all get along :-)
This island has to deal with illiteracy , corruption and crime that would make a "First World" leader throw his hands up in the air and run a way.It holds it's own despite all it's problems.
Tourism is the DR's oil and they need to protect it..
Haiti has been dealt a bad hand and the culture and language seperate the two nations not the color. .
Written by: jacirez, 27 Aug 2008 7:16 PM
From: Canada, Northern Alberta
arkatype,
"
I take it that you are new in the forum, Iet me save you some of your precious time, there have been very bright articulate Dominicans that I have tried to educate, or have a logical conversation with Arka to no avail. Arka suffer from extreme self hate , have a twisted understanding of history, and most of all he's delusional all the time.
The following is not intended as "bragging"--however I feel it necessary to put all my previous comments in context:
I hold a degree in Computer Sciences; One In Engineering and one in Business (with a minor in History). oh, I almost forgot: I have an IQ of 187. My area of expertise is Computer Security (Firewalls, VPNs and Encryption), and Fire Protection Engineering. Basic intelligence in my field is a requirement...
I would be delighted to have an intelligent argument with you (or anyone), so long as you do not question my Heritage and my Intelligence.
Thank you.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 27 Aug 2008 7:18 PM
From: United States
Antonioj:
thanks Mr. PHD with your uplifting comments, once again separate issues like race and business so you and your people can grow up.
"
Not a problem cuz, although i do not agree with you all the time, however I will take you over Arkatype any time jejeje
For the love of god, man. Give it a rest, will ya?!!!
Written by: jacirez, 27 Aug 2008 7:37 PM
From: Canada, Northern Alberta
arkatype,
The following is not intended as "bragging"--however I feel it necessary to put all my previous comments in context:
I hold a degree in Computer Sciences; One In Engineering and one in Business (with a minor in History). oh, I almost forgot: I have an IQ of 187. My area of expertise is Computer Security (Firewalls, VPNs and Encryption), and Fire Protection Engineering. Basic intelligence in my field is a requirement...
I would be delighted to have an intelligent argument with you (or anyone), so long as you do not question my Heritage and my Intelligence
LMAO!!!
Just my subtle way of saying to arkatype : Dude, Shut the f*%$ off!!!
Written by: arkatype, 27 Aug 2008 7:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
"THE TRUTH HURTS" Im sorry to make your stomach churn, im ready to vomit too. Im going to pull an old Encyclopedia that i have stashed in one of my closets then im going to proceed and look for Haiti. And im going to vomit all over the haitian map! PEACE?
"
Very childish Arka, you are a typical cyberbully and a corward when confronted choose to run instead...
Here's a an Haitian saying anyone can translate this ? "dent pourri gin force su banane mu"
The Smartest Woman In The World?
The highest recorded IQ Score for a living female goes to Marilyn Vos Savant. She has an IQ Score of 186. Marilyn Vos Savant is a national columnist and author. Her syndicated column is called Ask Marilyn. She is an executive at Jarvik Heart, Inc.
http://www.kids-iq-tests.com/famous-people.html
I do not consider you a Bully. On the contrary, I welcome your views/rants; for it reaffirms my own superiority and cements the un-likelihood of your intellectual ascendancy. If it wasn't for people like you, people like me would have no one to lead or reign over.
I, unlike the rest of the forum, thank you. You make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Aside for being notoriously unreliable as a barometer of intelligence, there isn't a single, standardized IQ test. That said, Dr. Stephen Hopkins has a recorded IQ of 200.
The IQ test used at my Alma mater, placed an unusual emphasis on mathematics (having a background in Computer Sciences/Encryption) gave all my class an advantage. Coincidently, I scored the average for my class. IQ score means nothing (that was an inside joke)...
Did you forget to take your meds again?!
Dude, remember: Take the blue ones in the morning, the red ones before bed....
Written by: arkatype, 27 Aug 2008 8:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Running from who? "YOU" you freaking derelict.
"
You are running away from Jacirez, indeed that only confirm your inability to have an intelligent conversation.
(chicken , turkey)
Written by: greenwave, 27 Aug 2008 8:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Get the illegal immigrants out of DR NOW! It is time to execute and/or poison these rats! GET THE HELL OUT!....
"
Arkatype just morphed into Greenwave the loco, he does that all the time.... you are such a weirdo
If you are the same person ? who worked on this created the bridgeware (IPSEC, Webmin, Kernel Module, etc then you maybe at .01% level
Jacirez the bully exterminator... hasta la vista baby
Yes, that was me (this is me blushing)...
From: Canada
What a load of racist vitriol. The "hoteliers" would gladly hire them to build their hotels then complain once they have the property completed. Haitians wouldn't go there to begin with if Dominicans themselves would do the construction. Of course, that's beneath them and only suited for a Haitian. Catch22!
very true, soo many Dominicans asking for work and when they have work presented they don't want to do it.... they don't even sell stuff to the Haitians..... where is Leo in all this,
you should build in Haiti then
Believe or not I agree with You 100 % regarding Dominicans in this issue but please remember too that Haitians have not right to invade us with a hidden agenda.
Does anyone have A SOLUTION to this problem...? If so, let's hear it....
a) I propose to build low income houses to the eligible workers already in place
b) in conjunction with the Hoteliers enforce current immigration laws
c) as a look-ahead measure, create enforce a competitive guest-workers program specifically tailored to the Tourism industry
d) Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
Just my $0.02
I like your option below
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
f)More free trade zone at the border town, Haitian will not have to venture uninvited to find job at other DR cities
In perspective might be OK your proposition but remember that Haitian goverment is quite lazy and irresponsible in many terms, there is always something going on when issues arise in Dominican Republic and they deport haitians with legitimate right then you have all this animosity from mediocre ONG'S and Haiti to enforce made up information so Dominican Rep look foolish, racist and biased.
I see US, european countries and Canada exercising the same right that they want to take away from Dominican Republic, also if Haitians are so brave why no to push the US to apply the same inmigration policy as they do with the Cubans once they step on Florida and get political asylum on the spot.
Is always easy to point fingers at Dominican Republic all the time when Haitian goverment is to blame for not providing enough jobs, education and welfare system for its citizens, instead They push their people to cross the border and put the blame on Dominican Republic which is unfair.
You asking for the hoteliers to build houses for your people when in real life I do know most of the Dominicans that work in Punta Cana and strugle to meet ends and You asking for so many concesions "In a way".
History is already written so there is also the case that We need to be respected since sometimes your people try to push the wrong buttons when living in Dominican Republic and want to touch sensitive issues that eventually stir up people's feelings.
This may be a bad example but I am searching for some common ground here.
The surgar cane industry sets up 'Bateys" for the workers. I know they are deplorable but at least it allows these folks a community they can call home..
The government can subsidize the building materials and the Haitians could build it.
Is this to far fetched or a simple solution.
It can be supervised and controlled .
What I see at every construction site is the workers live on site until it is finished then they are kicked out and move on to the next job if they are lucky.
But they don't get running water or electricity until those services are hooked up.
That pisses me off the way they are treated after busting their asses all day in the hot sun and they have to take a shower with a garden hose if they are lucky enough to have water.
nothing generates more comments than haitian-dominican issues. while highly-minded folks like u , cibaeno, lautaro etc.. are doing your best to bring the discussions on an intellectual level, try to understand and propose solutions to a real dilemma, folks who can't get over with their own frustations, adopt for a detour: the hatred of the haitians. why ? hilarious isn'it. because of things that have occured centuries before. childish and simplistic minds! do they have any notion of history ? the best way to deal with ignoramuses is to ignore them. they are not contributing to anything at all.
I'll second that.:)
This troublesome issue could be resolved by two measures: 1- That, for once, the dominican state ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS (sorry for the shouting, but I can't help but being mightily annoyed with these oligarchic whiners). The laws are there (clearly stating that the workforce on the DR must be 80% native and 20%, the only thing needed is for the people that get's into power every four years to stop acting as if the state is their personal fief. As for these hoteliers, what can I say? they can't have it both ways, they have to decide which comes first, their pockets or the personal nuances and whims of the tourists (we all know what the answer to that will be), and 2- It's necessary for our business classes to understand that there are many business opportunities at the other side of the border, so it's in their best interest (and the interest of all parties) to put aside personal prejudices and start thinking about what business ventures could be started on Haiti (cont)
What an intelligent, well though out response. How Lautaro will come back from that one is beyond me.
Tell me, do you agree that other countries (i.e U.S.A, Spain, the Netherlands, etc.) and territories (i.e. Puerto Rico, St. Marteen, British Virgin Islands, etc) should mirror Dominican Republic's Immigration laws when dealing with undocumented workers from the Dominican Republic?
If the answers is no then; wouldn't that mean that our (Dominican's) laws may need a dose of humanity?
I believe we (Dominicans) should start an honest dialogue on the subject of comprehensive immigration--knowing that the rest of the world is watching.
Please understand that as long as there is economic disparity between Haiti and the D.R; undocumented Haitians will come to the D.R (just like we go to Puerto Rico, the U.S, etc.). The issue here is how do we manage this reality: Do we accommodate them here (in the D.R), or do we help them create more jobs at home (in Haiti).
Anything less is just rhetorical flourish.
I am a new member!!!
All the posts are very interesting. Have any of you done something to try to resolve this issue???
Solution will be to stop the illegal flow of Haitians entering the country to prevent another Yugoslavia event, most likely will be a "Balcanization" even the current Pro-Haitian presi
dent said few years ago.
European countries and the US are enforcing their inmigration laws and want to police
Dominican Republic when They are already aplying massive deportations.
Issue here is not race, Dominicans hating Haitians, blacks or else ; main issue is that
We already had issues (1822-1844) , our founding fathers shed blood and flesh fighting
this people and there is a bunch of leftie people playing Robin Hood and commies.
Why Haitians don't complain to the United States of America when they step in Florida and
get deported while Cubans do the same and get political asylum on the spot.
Also if there is 2 constitutions (Dominican & Haitian) that state clear who is a citizen and
stablish clear citizenship rights why Haitians want to force a constitution
violation to accomodate their needs and daily life requests, recently We had cases of Baseball
players borned and raised in Dominican Rep that were complaining about not being able to
get Dominican papers to sign their contracts with the MLB.
Why their parents didnt' do things by the book going to the Haitian embassy in Sto. Dgo and
declaring their children according to both countries laws and orderly civilized.
Instead We see people all over whining, complaining and making false statements against Dominican Republic that everything was based on race, being black, haitian or poor, plain and simple "The law is the law" and must be followed and respected.
Also Haitians want to demand conditions for them that not even average Dominicans have, yes indeed haitians suffer a lot but Dominicans too.
I seem many incidents of extremely poor Dominicans living in extremely inhumane conditions and who they complain about it, "NOBODY" they take with bravery and try to meet
Really? Because in this very thread I can point out posts by you yourself that have undeniable racist and xenophobic overtones. Don't hide behind some feigned righteous indignation when it comes to this problem. You are a racist plain and simple.
"...gente barata como tu gente que solo sabe llevar enfermedades, salvajismo y creencias de brujeria barata."
"...con tu idioma negril de Haitiano barato como son la mayoria de uds, para muestra solo hay que verlos alla que se defecan y orinan donde quiera como pequenos animalitos salvajes."
" ...tu eres un simple y chopo Haitiano como la mayoria que tenemos alla."
And this is not about race and hate for you? Yeah right. Give us all a break. Your words are in front of us all so stop your nonsense. Usted esta lleno de odio. It's more than evident.
Ends fighting, working, studying, etc. Also I get pissed when i see in the US, France and Canada all this negative, unprofesional campaigns staged by Haitians and their socialist, communist lovers pounding the morale, pride and Dominican foundation, at the end what Haitians expect from people like me other that feel repulsive and negative feelings against them seeing first hand
their low life backstabbing when every foreigner that goes to the island sees that they don't live in slavery conditions or get forced to do anything against their will.
Solution in the long term will be for the Haitian goverment to improve conditions for the haitian people and hopefully one day they could have a better life and expatriate themselves from Domincian Republic once they get plenty of jobs, good welfare system and hopefully a proactive goverment.
If this is your plain and sincere opinion why don't you join Father Regino Martinez and do some humanitarian work on the border showing your true colors instead of acusing our constitution.
Whaever I said it's true because I witnessed myself in diferent locations, If you don't like criticism
too bad and I don't care.
Sad part is that you once invite me to see your profile in a menacing way, I will not do that; i leave this kind of match to low life people, also i'm always doubting about your profile and never believe that you are dominican at all, most likely you are like lautaro "Somebody hidden behind a wall" and if you really are Dominican like you said then you are a "TRAITOR"
I talk from experience. There is a strong current of racism in the D.R. That is a fact. Remember Jose Fransisco Pena Gomez? This fella was arguably the smartest leader the D.R has ever produced (think the Dominican Barack Obama); yet time and time again the color of his skin (and supposed Haitian heritage) was used to torpedo his political aspirations.
The solution in the long term will be for the Haitian and Dominican governments to improve conditions for both the Haitian and Dominican people. The D.R does not exists in a vacuum; nor does Haiti. We (Dominicans and Haitians) are in this together.
so what about 1822-1844, don't tell me that Dominicans will be so dumb, stupid and mentally challenged to forget this history experience.
Should I cry now or later?
you don't have to cry but to stay in the "Haitian resistance" and fight for their rights or maybe I should say "Your rights too".
Wow. Now I've been cornered intellectually. Oh, how will ever come back from this one.
Thanks for your point of view. I want to know if there is something tangible being done to resolve this problem. You know like an organization to pressure the government and the international community to take action. Can the Dominican Diaspora assist?
Did you know that the conflict between Jews and Muslims came about because they couldn't agree to which sons of Abraham (Ismael or Issac) God intended to give the promised land to?
Or the Conflict between Sunnis and Shiite Muslims is because they could not agree which is the true representative of the prophet Mohamed on Earth: The Imams (Shiites) or the Learned Scholars (Sunnis) ?
So this hatred for Haitians can it be grounded on events 186 years ago? In 2008 Haiti is hardly in a position to mount and invasion; and to tell you the truth, Reunifying the Island doesn't sound like a bad idea (Haiti has billions of Dollars worth of unexploited resources and pristine coastline. Imagine the hotels we could build over there)...
NEVER!
You are talking about 2 separates issue here, Palestinian and jews are not the same as Dominicans and Haitians, you are twisting the meaning right here.
Cibaeno: why don't you take off your mask and get honest with your nationality, Do You think
that people could be mentally challenged to misunderstand your subliminal and cheap rhetoric.
We have never invaded Haiti and just want to be left alone, is this wrong or bad???
2 different countries, 2 different languages, 2 different cultures and 2 different civilizations
so why trying to push the issue or force anything unwanted.
Cibaeno75: truly believe that father regino needs you really bad in the border so you can start distorting information against Dominican Republic supporting ONG'S and helping your own kind so support the "Haitian resistance"
I am talking about cause and affect, and historical grudges that when view under the lenses of objectivity seem ridiculous at best.
Before I came to Canada I worked in the tourism industry (In Punta Cana, La Romana, Puerto Plata & Sosua). There were (and I am sure are) hundreds (even thousands) or illegal European immigrants living in there areas, owning business and otherwise part of the community. In all my years living and working there, not once did I hear anyone complain about their presence.
I think it was because of two reasons
1) They were "blancos", fair skinned. You know how we all dream of being white (some of us are capable of tracing our "Spanish" ancestry through hundreds of years).
2) They had money. They lived in big houses, drove big cars (or motorcycles) and walked around like they owned the place.
The same way Israel guarantees the "Right of Return" to anyone who can prove their "Jewishness" , while denying this very right to Palestinians displaced
that people could be mentally challenged to misunderstand your subliminal and cheap rhetoric."
I concede. I can't play mental chess with you. Your mental capacity is like a moon eclipsing my paltry intellect. Someone mentioned an IQ in the 180s. They shouldn't even try to come on here and tout their intellect when we have towers of thought such as yourself on this site. Oh great Rubirosa, continue blessing us with these pearls of wisdom that flow like honey from your keyboard. Enlighten us wise sage.
2 different countries(How?), 2 different languages(How? most people in the D.R understand and speak creole/French. Myself included), 2 different cultures(Ha!) and 2 different civilizations (Are you kidding me? What civilization? The Tainos, The Europeans, The African Slaves?)
Is the Dominican and Haitian agenda really that different? Most Dominicans want to maintain their sovereignty and Haitians want their country to be stable so they can live there (Haiti) happily. Everyone is entitled to live with dignity etc...(please insert human rights rhetoric) (please correct me if I am wrong) So wouldn't the solution be that we should all work to uplift Haiti and then the Haitian exiles will go back home, then it will be a win-win situation. Am I being over simplistic and naive???
What I would like is to move you all beyond the concept of nationality. We are and will continue to be intertwined (in practical, tangible ways). This is even more so in a place like the island of Hispaniola. We have to start understating that the problem on Haiti are the problems in the D.R. That solving Haiti's problem equates to solving the D.R's problem.
It is a common theme in many countries that having a large influx of illegal immigration will create
the same or worse reaction from its citizens or government.
The ugly truth of the matter is that it is definitely a problem, especially in a tourist area that would not want any type eyesores.
Similar events happened here in the USA in regular towns that had an influx of illegal Mexican immigration whereupon there would be huge crowds of men standing around waiting for contractors to pick them for jobs and/or take up loitering. These towns then started to striclty enforce laws that prevented these types of gatherings.
And as one can gather from that article, the tourist industry themselves are partly to blame.
These things have nothing to do with racism or anti-haitianismo. DR has an illegal immigration problem period.
I did not have to marry to come to Canada. I was a permanent resident before I got here (a side effect of having a 180 IQ. Doors just open) :-)
From: Haiti
Rubi..what's good in the hood. Listen why not ask why the DR government isn't doing anything. punta cana/bavaro is ways from the border. Listen the fact is in the tourist zones haitians construct all of the area and also professional haitians due to their language skills work in the resorts. Where are dominicans? Too buys trying to catch a yola to puerto rico and get into USA. Dude no one wants them to forget 1844 but we are living in a different time. Regarding on re-unifying the island would be a disaster..it will never work..it's like dumb and dumber ties the knot.. What needs to be done is invest in haiti and move the influx of illegals back to Haiti where they can find a reasonable job.
^
Agree.
WRONG! The D.R has an economic problem. Under these circumstances ethnics and racial tensions are just a convenient excuse. We have millions of immigrants in Canada--yet, we do not have an Immigrant problem (Our economy is booming, you see)...
You're looking at political reunification. I am thinking of ECONOMIC integration: Cross-border free zones, bilateral economic policies. Creating a Markets in Haiti for Dominican goods and services, and vice versa. Once this is accomplished, political unification is an automatic outcome
My point is assigning blame is useless at this point. We should concentrate on SOLUTIONS!
We all seem to agree the best course of action is to try and rehabilitate Haiti's economy and its ability to provide basic services to its citizens....
I would suggest we (Dominicans) take a lead role in this. We could encourage the kind of changes that are needed in Haiti; rather than hurling racial epithets; we should concentrate in solving the problem....
I am really glad to see that you are so passionate about this issue. What are you doing personally to resolve this issue?
This does not have anything to do with race. Why do people keep bringing this up? The race issue is a weapon of mass distraction to invalidate the Dominicans point of view etc. This has to do with money and the financial, social and other burdens on the Domincan Republic.
Are the dominican elites any different, ark?
From: Dominican Republic
"a country that's been scarred by dictators that look out for themselves and those close under them"
Are the dominican elites any different, ark?
I say:
Is any government any different?
Based in large part to the problems you yourself alluded to, Haiti is incapable of fixing its own problem. Knowing that the poorest and least advantaged of their population will continue to cross over into the D.R makes it "OUR" problem; so be better solve it--which brings me back to my earlier ideas. I propose to
a)build low income houses to the eligible workers already in place
b) in conjunction with the Hoteliers enforce current immigration laws
c) as a look-ahead measure, create enforce a competitive guest-workers program specifically tailored to the Tourism industry
d) Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
IT IS NOT AN IMMIGRANT PROBLEM. IT IS AN ECONOMIC PROBLEM...Ontario is now one of the Have-not provinces....
Guns, violence and sudo-civil unrest are symptoms of an economic problem. Ontario (Toronto) is not different.
Crime was not a serious problem in T.O in the 90s. Why?...
Once again. Sssssslowy:
Based in large part to the problems you yourself alluded to, Haiti is incapable of fixing its own problem. Knowing that the poorest and least advantaged of their population will continue to cross over into the D.R makes it "OUR" problem; so be better solve it--which brings me back to my earlier ideas. I propose to
a)build low income houses to the eligible workers already in place
b) in conjunction with the Hoteliers enforce current immigration laws
c) as a look-ahead measure, create enforce a competitive guest-workers program specifically tailored to the Tourism industry
d) Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
a) What should be done with the illegal Haitians?
b) What should be done with the Haitians born in the Dominican Republic?
That's the easy part:
What should be done with the illegal Haitians? Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible.
What should be done with the Haitians born in the Dominican Republic? a Dominican is defined as someone born in the Dominican Republic. There is no such thing as a Haitians born in the Dominican Republic. Since the law states that they are not citizens; then the law needs to be changed.
Deport them.
b) What should be done with the Haitians born in the Dominican Republic?
The law states that they are not citizens. The law needs to be changed.
a) How do we determine who is eligible for citizenship from the 2 million illegal Haitian immigrants?
b) Will the illegal immigrants be penalized for living and working in the Dominican Republic without authorization?
c) Who will pay for all this reform?
These are the fine points of a comprehensive Immigration policy. I do not claim to have all the answers. But I vehemently believe the first step is to move beyond blame and towards solutions.
How do we determine who is eligible for citizenship from the 2 million illegal Haitian immigrants? A good departing point would be to group these immigrants into income, education , skills and length of time in the country categories; then determine what are the D.R requirements and what is the limit (number of applicants), over time that the country can absorb.
Will the illegal immigrants be penalized for living and working in the Dominican Republic without authorization? I do not care either way--so long as the penalty is affordable. What you want is to bring people into the law; not create an underground immigrant community.
Who will pay for all this reform? What costs? They are already here. They are already putting strain on the services the government provides.
This comprehensive Immigration policy has to be coupled with creating the economic conditions in Haiti to stem the flow of more immigrants into the D.R. As I said before, it is possible to create these conditions in Haiti in a manner that is economically beneficial to both the D.R and Haiti.
Very interesting. How do you think that living in Canada has shaped your policy and/or views on the Haitian immigration issue? Do you think that if you lived in Dominican Republic your views and/or policy would remain the same?
I am sure you will not believe this; but these have always been my views. I am by definition an idealist...and a grounded pragmatist...
You keep mentioning that Haiti's problems, are also our problems since what is happening on their side of the island ends up affecting us, and to a certain extent, I agree. However, it is not our responsibility to solve their economic woes. I dont think that starting a "guest-worker" program is the answer. All that will do is encourage more illegal immigration from Haiti because in a place like DR, where pretty much all laws are poorly enforced, a program such as this will be abused; they will come in as "guest-workers" and end up staying, I guarantee you. Look at the example of the U.S., who has guest-worker programs but still has millions of illegal immigrants. Besides, like AzuaNYC mentioned, who is going to pay for such a program? The government? Charging Dominican citizens taxes? Yeah, sure, ok! I'm not saying this to offend the Haitians that come on here, but I definitely think that there should be much more involvement from the Haitian communities living abroad(cont)
Try this for size: I am a so-called "Dominicano Prieto". I am as sensitive to the history of dark-skinned Dominicans as I am to the African-American in North America--yet, I am not personally offended by slavery. I am not offended because it understand its context. Slavery did not happen because European believed dark-skinned people were inferior (that was just a very convenient excuse).
The real reason was that they (the tribes of West and Central Africa) represented a cheap resource (human, but a resource nevertheless) with which to perpetuate/secure the European Colonial Powers' position of power.
To me it was just a case of a powerful population securing a resource deemed strategic to their need. Not much different what we do with oil today and fresh water in the next few decades.
Of course, moral universalism makes it all wrong today...But Moral Relativism hold these truths to be self-evident...
Can you please expound on your slavery commentary?
I was suggesting that the illegal Haitian immigration issue in the Dominican Republic is not a race issue because I believe that if it were two million Chinese, Native Americans, whatever with the same social-economic status as the Haitians coming to the Dominincan Republic have, Dominicans would have the same reaction.
Slavery and or oppression of any kind is morally wrong within the 21st century context. As a 21st century pragmatist I am bound to voice my opposition to it.
Historical slavery (those of the 15th-19th centuries) was morally acceptable within these specific time context (because the moral convention of the time made it so). It would be impossible to give a truly objective opinion of these times from the perspective of the 21st century.
Do you think a small village in the DR would react equally if 100 illegal Haitians moved in, as opposed to 100 illegal Europeans?
Of course not. Simply because it is understood that the 100 illegal Europeans will bring money and prosperity with them. Same as if 100 African-American NBA players move to the same village. It is ECONOMICS; not RACE.
Absolutely, unequivocaly yes, I do believe it. If both the Haitians and the Europeans had the same social-economic status.
In philosophy moral relativism is the position that moral or ethical propositions do not reflect objective and/or universal moral truths, but instead make claims relative to social, cultural, historical or personal circumstances. Moral relativists hold that no universal standard exists by which to assess an ethical proposition's truth; moral subjectivism is thus the opposite of moral absolutism.
I am a moral relativist.
"it was not acceptable to the mores of the time. had it been, there would have been no abolitionist imperatives...."
Not true. It was to the powerful majority. Only when there was a shift in thinking in the powerful majority did it become socially unacceptable. Friedrich Nietzsche said once: Every elevation of type man have hereto been the work of aristocratic society and that will always be...True ten, true today (see the fall of apartheid in the mid 1990s)...
Hatred of Haitians is a very powerful and convenient tool used by the powerful majority of our country to justify their access to a relatively cheap resource. No natural born Dominican is willing to work in the sugar cane field. It is convenient to stick a label of inferiority to Haitians if we are to justify their working and living in abject squalor. No rational student of history would think Haitians as inferior (They created the first Democracy in the new world); but their economic position makes them easy target of economic slavery. We needed a moral justification for it, ergo Haitians are "inferior" to us Dominicans.
You are right. I should have used "assumed"...
Only when there was a shift in thinking motivated by economic realities; not some kind of universal moral conviction...
...Yet, our morality is guided my pragmatic, tangible reality.
For example, you, me (and most people) would consider eating the flesh of another human being morally wrong...yet; given the right "tangible realities", you, me and most people would no just that...
Again, this is moral relativism; not moral absolutism as we would like to think...
and...therefore....what?
You are going to cite your sources at the end...right?
Once more you are wrong and twisting other people's words. I said that the government isn't doing anything about this problem. They are looking the other way, DR government is not stopping the immigration problem. This is a problem that is being tolerated. there can be 2 million haitians in DR, the government is part of the blame. Haiti doesn't have that many jobs, you are correct, but those haitians that do decide to migrate sure don't have the government stopping them. Like i said, stop blaming the haitians, just blame the governments corruption. Like the guy said in the contradicting article, they are not wanted but wanted. Refrain from blaming the haitians solely. Ur government does not care about what u care about, soo live with it.
I am sorry; but if you go against a pre-conceived notion of morality; that means your moral position has shifted...
You say survival is fundamental, and fundamentals trump all other considerations, every time. Of course; but what you fail to mention is that our morality is influenced by our sense of survival--why do you think that most of what be consider moral is "good' for us; and what we consider immoral is "bad" for us.
Your understanding of morality is that it is based in an un-shifting value system...well, not even the bible, the Koran, The Torah (or any other ancient text) can claim as such. How can you...
No tell me. And please be concise when you correlate it's relevance to todays times. Particuraly, how the mistreatment of Blacks in Haiti during slavery affects Dominican Republic in Modern times. Thanks. P.S. And of course, don't forget to cite your sources.
You say morality is not necessarily influenced by a sense of survival, otherwise the wealthy would not steal. unless, of course, in their notion of morality, stealing is good!
I say it is. I also say the wealthy steal (or otherwise perpetuate their position of power) because in their morality (being relative and all) it is good=moral...
Last word: Read On the Genealogy of Morality by Friedrich Nietzsche...
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC, The question of race only arises within the historical context, which was a reality in the past. Slavery existed that means that blacks and whites were not equal within societies frame work, but what you got to remember is that every country had a different experience regarding slavery. Not all slave masters treated their slaves the same way. That's where the confusion and anomosities boils over between dominicans and haitians alike.
This is what I needed you to expound on. I am not sure I understand what you are driving at? "That's where the confusion and anomosities boils over between dominicans and haitians alike. " huh???
a)Build low income houses to the eligible workers already in place
b) In conjunction with the Hoteliers enforce current immigration laws
c) As a look-ahead measure, create enforce a competitive guest-workers program specifically tailored to the Tourism industry
d) Provide a path to citizenship to those eligible
e) Work with the government of Haiti to create jobs in Haiti, so as to give an incentive for workers to stay home
My points of view,
a) building houses for Haitians in Punta Cana wouldn't make any sense at all since I know
many Dominicans there are struggling to meet ends and they are living from check to check, so
we would be discriminating our own people to acomodate Haitians "No way".
b) Sounds legally right and civilized.
c) I'm not sure about this, and remember that by law 80% of the work must be done by 100%
Dominicans.
d) Very sensitive point since both constitution state clear who is citizen and who not, so why bother
to accomodate a specific etnic group just to silent international community.
e) will be good as long as the ineffective, corrupted, ineficient and mediocre goverment in Haiti is willing to do something since most likely they always want to presure the Dominican goverment to take care of their issues and business.
Are you saying that the anomosities between Dominicans and Haitians impart stem from:
a) there being more Black slaves in Haiti than the Dominican Republic?
b) and that these Black slaves were treated far worse in Haiti than in the Domininican Republic? Like the house negro versus the plantation negro?
It does not need be perfect. Just good enough to move us from blaming to action...
Um, so tell us how you really feel. Your being too evasive.
....and please use complete sentences. :-)
Business has nothing to do with any other twisting issues that you might have in mind, capitalism is great and therefore creates jobs and oportunities.
i begin to relish the discussions on the site. keep them elevated. immerse yourselves and the intelligent readers in philosophy, logic, dialectic; socrates ,plato, aristotle, kant, hegel, engels, marx etc... maybe, we will force the not so intelligent to get an education. it is the only way to help them think positively.
At the same time motivating the Haitian resistance against Dominican Republic................
Stay positive sister, way to go.................
From: Dominican Republic
AzuaNYC You are killing me of laughter! Slave vs. House Negro? WTF.....!
You found me out.! I am just here for your entertainment.
From: United States
the wealthy want population control. they want total annihilation of all poor and middle glass. and they will get it god help us.
a) Don't the wealthy already have population control?
b) After the wealthy annihilate the poor and the midddle class who is going to do their dirty work for them? Robots? Aliens?
c) Why don't the elite just leave Earth and start a new civilization on Mars? Do any of you have the elite's contact information so I can ask them?
d) Maybe God is helping...the wealthy?
e) Is God a Haitian woman?
I think some ringers were brought in so DT can tout itself as a legitimate news source.
The ones with all these great ideas and superior education should be here teaching your brother and sisters rather then arguing moot points.
A couple months ago I posted that the street corners here in the Naco-Piantini district were full of Haitian kids begging on the street corners. Soon after , immigration conducted a sweep of the area and for about two months they were gone. Well guess what they are back! I just had a 6 year old trying to wash my windows. These kids are between 6 and 10 years old 10:00 PM alone on the streets
All of you with your fancy words, perfect grammer and text book solutions tell us how do you fix this problem.
You know how you fix it? you roll up your sleeves oropen your wallets .
Bunch of hipocrites and talking heads get your asses down here and help.
.
Written by: arkatype, 28 Aug 2008 4:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti topped about 500,000 slaves, the Dominican Republic about 40,000 slaves. Big difference!!!!!
"
arkatype=greenwave you keep repeating that same message on every thread, can you perhaps clarify or expand your point ?
Written by: arkatype, 28 Aug 2008 4:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti topped about 500,000 slaves, the Dominican Republic about 40,000 slaves. Big difference!!!!!
"
Arkatype would you care to expand on your comment above and the message you want to convey I am always confuse each time you use that quote, what is your point ?
This is the new hot story: Once powerful Dominican party flounders between fusion, oblivion
Check it out on the front page...
1) If you don't think Dominican Republic has a problem with illegal Haitian immigration than I don't you have an all around grasp of the situation.
2) You seem to have an idealistic view of Canada and its immigration, but a better analogy would be the USA and the current problems it has had with their illegal immigration.
I've seen public hospitals shut down due to the sheer amount of uninsured illegal's giving birth.
2) You seem to have an idealistic view of Canada and its immigration, but a better analogy would be the USA and the current problems it has had with their illegal immigration.
I've seen public hospitals shut down due to the sheer amount of uninsured illegal's giving birth. "
Thanks for saying this USADR, I posted something in response to Jacirez similar to this in this thread but it looks like most didn't read it. Creating a path toward legalization will only increase more Illegal immigration from Haiti. If the govt in DR did their job right they would fine all these companies in DR that would rather hire an illegal Haitian vs. a Dominican so that they wont have to pay them what they deserve. I hear people come here and say that Haitians are doing the jobs that Dominicans won't do. The truth is, a hungry Dominican that has a family
I respect you for being so passionate about the illegal immigration problem and I respect your opinions. I understand that this affects you deeply more than most of us because you live in the Dominican Republic, you see everyday how illegal immigration affects the island in a positive and negative manner. However, can you please refrain from using denegrating language to describe other human beings. Thanks so much, I know you understand and will comply.
Yesteday, you gave a brief history of race relations in Haiti and the Domininican Republic for the benefit of us all. Thank you. However, I am not retarded and I like FranktheTank did not grasp your point.
I'm willing to bet that a large portion of the Haitian diaspora is better educated and lives better than you.
I hope to god that your life does not hang in the hands of a Haitian doctor one day.
Do you know how many young Haitans come in contact with Dominicans everyday. Reading your rants can cuase some serious HATRED in people.
I hope it never comes to bite you in the a*s one day.
But, then I guess that is the beauty of anonimity.
There's a sizeable portion of Dominicans in DR that won't do jobs fit for an Haitiano. It's just the way it is.
I know that we make up the largest single group currently enrolled in the CUNY system but I'm going to have to kindly ask you to show me proof of the statement I just quoted from you. Last I checked the cubans had the highest overall rate of college grads among hispanics here in the states.
You're mistaken. What I've seen is that a sizeable portion of Dominicans in DR won't do any jobs for the SAME wages typically payed to haitian illegals.
A genius alluded to the fact that diaspora Haitians live in the ghetto. I made no comparison to Haitian and Dominican communities.
That post was directed at an insecure individual who may be lacking in the very eyes of the people he chooses to disrespect.
I went tocollege with many Dominicans(friends, acquaintances), dated dominican ladies, have Dominican cousins and in-laws in Santo-Domingo.
You'll never hear me make blanket derogatory remarks about the Dominican community and any group of people for that matter.
How would you solve the CURRENT illegal immigration problem in the Dominican Republic? Can you please tell me what you would ideally want the Dominican Republic's immigration policy to look like?
I was mainly replying to Jem regarding individuals that will never do certain jobs for certain wages because it is beneath them.
Agricultural work in the countryside of DR is not a favorite of some Dominicans. They would rather go to Santiago and Santo-Domingo for better opportunities.
By the way , I read that you went to my friend's restaurant KOMBIT. You missed the owner's(Pascale, Marise's sister) 40th B-day party 2 weeks ago.
Funny you should mention that. My wife was telling me just the other day that she wanted to return.
I had originally gotten this information regarding Dominican college student rates over the news (surprisingly it was from the 6:30 news on Univision) and I never forgot it because it made me very happy to hear. However, I came across the same or similar statements throughout the years. I found this one document that pretty much says what I said and here's the link: http://faculty.tc.columbia.edu/upload/flr9/Dominicans-2000.doc
I am pretty sure the percentage is now much higher actually. It doesn't specifically include Cubans but I think it speaks volume if our percentages are still much higher than the Mexican American and Puerto-Rican American whom have a much bigger population compared to Dominican Americans.
And I'll be more specific next time; I should have said Dominican Americans and not Dominicans, I guess.
Dreadlocks and Knumpe, I retract what I said before about any of you. My apologies, I misunderstood, glad you clarified. :-D
Whatch your back with the Haitian resistance group..........................They are pissed and hate Dominicans to death.
The spoken word is never HARMLESS. On print, over the airwaves or microphone. It can move people to great heights or destruction.
PEACE.
The problems in the U.S have more to do with a weak economy, declining productivity, high unemployment and a failed fiscal policy.
My view of Canada is not idealized, on the contrary, I've lived all over North America, including the U.S and I can tell you the issue today in the U.S is more economic than ethnic...
Remember the 90s? I do not recall the issue of immigration being an election topic. Correct me if I'm wrong and I will stand corrected.
Very interesting ideas indeed. You don't have to be in office to do something about the illegal immigration in Dominican Republic. Why don't you take action. May I suggest that you send your proposal to the president as a first step to change.
Palacio Nacional
Av. México esq. Dr. Delgado
Santo Domingo, República Dominicana
Tel.: (809) 695-8000
www.presidencia.gov.do
"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country." U.S. President John F. Kennedy made the speech during inaugural ceremonies on January 20, 1961.
I believe that with education, fresh ideas and partnership, Haitians and Dominicans can start anew.
At least, those willing.
As an addendum to my previous comments, consider Dubai (The largest of the Emirates in the U.A.E), the expatriate community makes up the majority of the Emirate residents; yet, we do not see the local Emirati taking to the street in protest of the clear invasion. Why is that? Can it be because with a population of 2.262 million it has a $46 Billion economy?
You said:
"All of you with your fancy words, perfect grammer and text book solutions tell us how do you fix this problem.
You know how you fix it? you roll up your sleeves oropen your wallets .
Bunch of hipocrites and talking heads get your asses down here and help."
I agree with you, the Dominican diaspora has to take an active role in the Dominican Republic's economic, social, etc. progress. I am starting a non-profit organization in the Dominican Republic. Can you assist me? What have you done so far?
Post your adress and information and let's see maybe few people can agree with your proposal and go the extra mile.
Seriously, you made me laugh.
Unfortunately, the border guards will shoot the alligators, make shoes and belts out of them and sell them to the Haitians for a good price.
CESFRONT can use a guy like you. You can get by with 10k-18K pesos a month, right?
From: United States
"AzuaNYC:
Post your adress and information and let's see maybe few people can agree with your proposal and go the extra mile."
I don't have a website yet. Do you want me to forward you my business plan? Is that what you are asking for? My project is not Haitian related! Are you still interested in seeing my proposal? My project is geared to helping Dominican women and girls. I am really troubled by the prostitution situation. I am working on a program to build self-esteem, integrity, dignity and all that other good stuff. Part of the program will be based on fostering education and the love of reading and learning. I want girls to learn skills, have a chess club, knitting club, softball team etc. It is in the premilinary stages. I have sent books for the reading project but I am looking for a location. Do you have any ideas? So do you want to help me???
"The spoken word is never HARMLESS. On print, over the airwaves or microphone. It can move people to great heights or destruction."
I agree with you, words can be very painful and harmful, however developing hatred for an entire group of people based on few peoples rants is ignorant and does not justify developing hatred.
You said:
"Undocumented immigrants doing jobs that locals won't do IS not a myth in any Country."
It is a myth to say that locals won't do these jobs because it is plain and simply not true. Like cibaeño75 said, just like Dominicans won't do the jobs illegal Haitians do for the same wages that illegal Haitians do, neither will U.S. citizens or legal U.S. residents do the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing for the same wages that these poor people are being paid. No, U.S. citizen or legal resident will not work long hours in a pizzeria for just $2.00 an hour. You'd have to pay them at least minimum wage. This is really what it's about.
If people's misfortunes fill you with glee and make you warm and fuzzy inside, hey enjoy the rest of your miserable life.
I will not be addressing you anymore.
Like I said before CESFRONT is hiring. Make your country proud and at the same time, you get to kick some Haitian as*s.
You'd be the envy of all your lackey friends.
I've been reading on this site for a while now and out of respect (as a visitor), I'll refrain from petty squabbles.
Sounds good to me and would suggest You to design the program and with some good contacts you can get in touch with companies in DR that might have in their budget some money allocation that might take in consideration the kind of program that you are planning to start up.
Is hard but with the right planning, timing and contacts could be a good blueprint for other positive projects, I'm more inclined to the enviroment and in the near future would love to start my own project too.
Not all haitians live in flatbush, contrary to popular belief. I have this lovely website for you. It shows where most haitians live, you can also gather statistics on Dominicans. Please look at where most Haitians live. contrary to popular belief most haitians don't live in flatbush. They are all over the tristate. Take a particular look at NJ and see how many haitians living in suburban neighborhoods. Take a look between where haitians and dominicans live, come back and let me know who live in more suburban neighborhoods. Stop trying to pick fights with haitians, try to find a solution to the problem. Bashing haitians isn't going to help the current situation. You are lucky enough that you can go back to DR and possible make some moves in the politics. Haitian Americans are not that fortunate, soo instead of making such biased statements, take a look and see what you can do for your country.
Then he would have turned to Rubi and said " Rubi like it or not The Haitians will take over DR one way or another and we won't even use an Army to do it, not a single shot will be fired"
P.S. Yes more Haitians do live in the Suburb than Dominicans.
Don't get it................ why are u and others fighting over nonesense.....why????????????? Haitians/ Dominicans....same shit. The difference is that one side is going backwards do to the lack of efforts by their government. The other going forward do to their unity. One side speak french and creole, and the other side speak a broken spanish.
Haitians go to the Dominican Republic for a better life.............Dominicans go to Haiti for a better live.... what's the problem. Not all the Haitians here are as bad as you portrait them....... Most of them are hard working people. Don't know too much about Haitians, but I did go to school long enough to know that the WORLD OWES them their FREEDOM. If it wasn't for them we would have still been SLAVES TODAY. The world has a problem with most Haians because they practice witchcraft/ voodoo whatever you wanna call it, some if not most of them have no class or education level.
How many Dominicans do witchcraf/ voodoo????
Second fault is with the the Dominican Businessmen that allow and encourage it to avoid paying decent wages to DOMINICANS!
Third fault to the Haitian government that passively encourages the ILLEGAL immigration to relieve itself of the burden of being a failed state that can't stand on it's own.
Now that the blame has been laid it does not change the fact that the Haitians present a social,political and demographic danger to the Dominican Republic and that as some have posted the strongest pressure should be put on the government and Businesses that employ Haitians to the detriment of Dominicans.
The border needs to be shut.mass deportations begun and then we can determine as a SOVEREIGN NATION who WE decide should come according to the needs of the labour market .
The politicians need to fell the heat and Dominicans need to pressure businesses to employ Dominicans and not illegals who will work for anything!!
Unfortunately I believe nothing will happen until we have massive bloodshed and by then it too late.
Pepe
in such small island.