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Some Haitinas wait in Anse a Pitre by day, to cross to Pedernales by night.

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Pedernales, Dominican Republic. - They arrive in “herds” under the shadow of the moon, and some die of thirst and hunger in their quest to reach Dominican soil, crossing the Bahoruco Range, residents say. “We come here live, because things there are very hard. Here we find work, eat´ and take back to the family there,” said Luis Sensili, who together with a companion left Haiti on foot and without breakfast toward the Dominican border.

He narrated of how he arrives in this country easily, because it only takes him 10 hours on foot and never encounters problems coming or going, so he does it frequently and with the same freedom as if he were in his own country.

“What we have is a peaceful migration of Haitians,” warned the province’s senator Dionis Sanchez, who said Pedernales has dozens of communities in which more than 80% of its people are of Haitian nationality, because the Dominicans have emigrated to the cities. He cited Los Arroyos, Mencía, Aguas Negras, Las Mercedes, La Manigua, Los Altagracianos, Los Cayucos, Sitio Nuevo, El Quemao, Zumbú, Los Mogotes and La Seiba.

“What’s happened is that the Dominicans have left their houses in search of better horizons, and the Haitians have occupied them behind the same treasure.” the lawmaker said.

Mencía, in the heart of the Bahoruco range, was a prosperous community with farm production until the last decade, but now barely a few Dominicans live there.

Sanchez stressed that even there the houses built during the presidency of Joaquin Balaguer are inhabited totality by Haitians, who occupied them after ding them abandoned.

The mayor Adalgisa Matos said there are cases of people who’ve sold their houses for just RD$5,000 to the Haitians. “In the provincial capital there are barrios where only Haitians live.”

Jorgilio Segura affirmed that the migration towards Dominican territory is unstoppable, and described the flow as a mighty river. “In the mountains of Pedernales is bodies of Haitians who die are frequently found, possibly from hunger, fatigue and thirst. “Those people are desperate and our authorities have their arms crossed. The Haitians have taken us from our towns. They already have the houses that were ours and the farming properties also.”

SOURCE: listin.dom.do

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COMMENTS
117 comment(s)
Written by: EnricoRizzo This user is banned, 28 Sep 2009 8:39 AM
From: Puerto Rico, Oso Blanco Rio Piedras
The turd has been thrown in the Abanico ----Run for cover ----it will not be distributed evenly
Written by: zak325, 28 Sep 2009 9:05 AM
From: United States
Again where are the Dominican border police/soldiers ? The DR has the second largest army in the Carribean (after Cuba) I relize that most of the Haitains coming east are desperate, but I also see the need for controled borders, for all nations.
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 28 Sep 2009 9:05 AM
From: Dominican Republic
This was a disaster waiting to happen. What are the authorities going to do about it is my question.
Written by: xwill7, 28 Sep 2009 9:38 AM
From: United States, Chicago
zac,
since there are not many tourist in that area the police/soldiers are in the other towns where they can stop people and ask for propina. We really need to control who comes in and out of the country
Written by: VeronicaDR, 28 Sep 2009 9:41 AM
From: United States
Until the corruption stops the border is a free for all for anyone willing to try their luck and if caught can simply try again or pay a small fee. This is another example of how corruption hurts us dearly and needs to be dealt with properly.
Written by: Lopez31, 28 Sep 2009 10:03 AM
From: United States
Great! when one of these women gives birth is the child Dominican? No wonder I was told the other day I was not dominican because I'm white. LOL. Kudos to the goverment for the awsome job they are doing at the border.
Written by: WalterPolo, 28 Sep 2009 10:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Puerto Plata
The good generals will get new SUV's.
Written by: guillermone, 28 Sep 2009 11:08 AM
From: United States
How lamentable, it hurts so much to see the indifference, an apathetic attitude of authorities. I just don't understand, what is it that they are waiting for? It has been a subtle and gradual but continued process of unification for Hispañiola. The invasion did not appear overnight it grew over time and we did not realize what was going on or feel worthwhile to object. Yet all mechanisms have been put in place to allow for this fusion to happen. When the time comes to finally take action it will be too late. The Haitians have taken over right in front of our eyes and will hide, shield themselves behind a claim to human rights and there will be nothing we can do peacefully to stop it. The DR people will have two choices, either succumb to Haitian invasion and allow the passive extinction of our culture or we will have have to take arms and experience bloodshed, widespread slaughter, the destruction of human life on both sides of the border. Let us not reach the point of no return
Written by: xwill7, 28 Sep 2009 11:15 AM
From: United States, Chicago
border wall is needed to control the flow
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 28 Sep 2009 11:16 AM
From: Dominican Republic
I am 100% for a Border wall.
Written by: StanEarl, 28 Sep 2009 11:54 AM
From: United States
I am all for Border Control, but what you folks seem not to understand is, any Hatian migration to DR make business sense. It's the same situation in the U.S the politician will pretend they are against it but about 40% of the Hispanic in the country are illegal specially from South America. But we will never really send them back because who will work the odd jobs? for there are a great help to this country... Most of the town are rich in agriculture and if the Dominican are not gonna work the land in persuit of better life in the bg cities, well the Haitian will move in and work it. Remember, The sugar industry is one of the main engine behind DR economy, therefore, sending the Haitians back again won't make good business sense. I am sure if the government want they can easily roud up all the illegals and send them back. But who's gonna work on the sugar plantations. Surely not the Dominicans..
Written by: xwill7, 28 Sep 2009 12:25 PM
From: United States, Chicago
stan,
Yes, in the farms it does help to have cheaper labor, but they need control who comes in and out Hatian, Colombian, what ever. The next guy that walks over the border can be a killer, rapist, wanted in another country for crimes, or big time crook. The border wall is needed and a visa for work or visit should be issued when trying to come in. Just like other countries do. Also, US citizens have to pay $10 USD for a tourist visa. People coming over the border should also have to pay some sort of fee to come in. No money, don't come
Written by: Ricardolito, 28 Sep 2009 12:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, la Romana
What we need is a prosperous Haiti where the population do not starve to death and can live their life with some dignity ..I think they would all prefer to live in their home country rather than come to the DR where they are looked at as sub human ..Far better to have two prosperous countries where a border fence becomes unnecessary
Written by: guillermone, 28 Sep 2009 12:38 PM
From: United States
Stan-"But who's gonna work on the sugar plantations. Surely not the Dominicans."

Its called mechanization, instead of a cheap Haitian labor force, which is what is holding back the modernization and advancement of the sugar cane industry. Brazil has done it and is working quite well for them, why can't we do the same in the DR? It appears as though it is a matter of being penny wise and pound foolish by the Dominican sugar barrons.
Written by: StanEarl, 28 Sep 2009 12:40 PM
From: United States
xwill7 you are right. I think that something that both gov should put in place. because, the last time I went to Haiti I saw a lot of Dr folks roaming the street with Haitian selling and exchanging products which was very interesting because it shows you that both place are valuable for each other. And establishing that sort of tax will bring enough revenues to both part. But lets hope the found goes into good use. Brother corruption is on both side of the Island I spend equal time on both side. You guys need to press your Gov on that issue. Remember, a prosper Haiti means an even more prosper DR
Written by: zak325, 28 Sep 2009 12:54 PM
From: United States
A wall or fence can be climbed or breached, ,people made it through the Berlin wall since it was put up, and that's with the brutal East German guards. This does not happen on the North and South Korean border, where a demiliterized zone (no man's land) , where, except for authorized border crossing areas, all other attempted crossings are deemed criminal and hostile and appropriate action can be taken. This will work best if approved my governments on both sides of the border.
Written by: xwill7, 28 Sep 2009 12:59 PM
From: United States, Chicago
even if Haiti was at the same economic level as DR, tight border control is still needed to control the criminals crossing over to the other side. DR is spending all of this money on drug control to fight the shipments that are air droped, but the border is open and stuff can enter the country without notice. Why lock you front door when your back door is wide open
Written by: vacanos, 28 Sep 2009 1:04 PM
From: United States
Over the last century only two Dominican head of state had been triumphant in dealing with our Haitian problem. Trujillo and Balaguer and they both had been accused of racist by our own lefties politicians who are now working overtime to help the Haitian encircle us. Go figure! If this what Duarte, Duverge, Mella, Sanchez, Santana ect fought for it? Is a lefty lawyer like Leonel or any other of our lefty’s pacifist the answer for our Haitian problem? I doubt it. The way I see it eventually the same way Hell is taking over Haiti hell will come to take our country too. Unless we get an uncompromised leader who will draw the line and tell everybody not to step over it. In 1934 the Haitians currency was the money most people used for transaction from Villa Gonzalez all the way to Dajabon. Trujillo went to the Frontera saw with his own eyes what was going on, briefed by the people living there and acted upon it. They will go until we let them go.
Written by: CaptRob, 28 Sep 2009 5:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Wow, If I was to say this about the Illegal Immigration into the U.S. I would be called a RACIST. How is this any different ? I do agree in strong laws. However, I have also seen how much the Haitians
have brought to this country. Who does all the hard labor here ? Who works in the fields ? Builds the buildings ? It is not about wage it is about quality of construction. I have had over the last 12 years both Dominicans and Haitians work for me. All I can say is most of the Haitians I know speak at least 4 languages. Plus I have never had to have them come back to re-do a job. Call me LUCKY.
Written by: vacanos, 28 Sep 2009 7:19 PM
From: United States
wow this is what I'm talking about. All the illegal immigrant regardless of where they from albania, russia, mexico or dominican need to be send to jail and then be deported. Dude get it thru your head the haitian brought nothing more than backward manner, poor hygiene, take job away from Dominicans, lowering the amount of money pay for a job, ECT. Speak 4 language? lol Maybe they are too busy learning new language instead of taking care of their own country. And if you think they are more capable why don't you go do business in Haiti? The dominican Republic had been a stable country with the biggest economy in central and caribean nation because we DOMINICANS invest in our country and take care of our country. RE-DO A JOB? hahaha
Written by: StanEarl, 28 Sep 2009 7:32 PM
From: United States
Vacanos, when you say backward manner what does that mean, please explain?..and taking jobs from Dominican, how is that, because last time i checked I believed the jobs were given to them, so don't blame the Haitian there are not at fault. Instead blame the people who hired them. Regardless of how you see it, if it wasn't the Haitian it would of been someone other national. I respect what's been hapening in DR, I truly respect it but let be honest Brother DR didn't come up oni it's own. And it's sad to say that alot of your peole can't even enjoy the light and the glitter of the Island
Written by: CaptRob, 28 Sep 2009 7:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Uh, you want to get your facts right. Dominicans don't want to work. They won't even take care of the children they have. PAPI CHULO. The only money here is what is sent back form America. Like 4 billion dollars per year. You cannot fire someone here even if you catch them stealing from you on camera. You have to pay them off. Show up late for work, take a two hour lunch break, etc. PLEASE.
Written by: vacanos, 28 Sep 2009 8:03 PM
From: United States
cont

Oh really? Did you know Dominicans used to do what the Haitians doing now back in the 80's early 90"s? Dominicans will not work as slaves the way the Haitians doing it now and I don't blame them. You want to offer a Dominican to go put cement for you for 100 pesos a day? lol
You are right though about these corps. Giving them jobs that is why we need to elect someone in line with Balaguer. These lefty keep getting elected are nothing but the sickness. Built a muro, control the border and not allow even a mosquito to cross the border. Big fines and jail time for guard taking bribes. Let's the job of guarding the frontier a hardship job to the armed
Written by: vacanos, 28 Sep 2009 8:03 PM
From: United States
stanearl
backward manner? I got you this from answer.com

(Directed or facing toward the back or rear.
Done or arranged in a manner or order that is opposite to previous occurrence or normal use.
Unwilling to act; reluctant; shy.
Behind others in progress or development: The technology was backward, but the system worked.)

Written by: vacanos, 28 Sep 2009 8:12 PM
From: United States
caprob
"Uh, you want to get your facts right. Dominicans don't want to work. They won't even take care of the children they have. PAPI CHULOThe only money here is what is sent back form America. Like 4 billion dollars per year. You cannot fire someone here even if you catch them stealing from you on camera. You have to pay them off. Show up late for work, take a two hour lunch break, etc. PLEASE."


I'm good or what? taking you guys true agenda out. attaboy I knew it I hit you in the heart and you came back limping. lol

Written by: Micaela, 28 Sep 2009 8:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dominicans don't realize the magnitude of the Haitian problems. In few years, the international community, the same that wants Haitians as far from their countries as possible, but fund in DR, not in Haiti, organizations to defend their rights, would declare them a national minority and try to force us to accept it or if we awake on time, it may turn into a Cosovo situation.

By the way, Ricardolito, if to solve this problem we have to wait for a prosperous Haiti, we may not have a country. Looking the present situation, how long do you think it would take? 200 years more? Would there still be a RD?
Written by: Micaela, 28 Sep 2009 8:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic
CaptRob. What else, but hard labor and unwanted, poorly paid jobs you want them to do here? Medical, financial, administrative, military, government? Do you remember that this country is DR, not Haiti? By telling us about the quality of their work, I gather that you employ them in Haiti, that is in Haiti that you hire those multi language speaker laborers. Could not be any other way, of course, you would not dare to take advantage of poor illegal immigrants to pay them less than the Dominican work law say, on the contrary, you pay both, Dominicans and Haitians the same wages. You are not just another Negro exploiter, who make your fortune out of illegal, cheap labor, aren't you?
Written by: CarlosFranco, 29 Sep 2009 1:13 AM
From: United States, Brooklyn

...."As if it were his own country".... huh



Written by: oupala07, 29 Sep 2009 3:26 AM
From: Canada
Hey guys! Get up! Open the doors and the windows, and close the gas, because it keeps you from noticing what is happening in the world. There was a time I'd have sung the same innocent and irrelevant rethoric you're voicing now, but I finally understood that the one world government has been set in motion. Small countries like ours and even larger ones have nothing to say about the politics that have already been dictated.

National borders, armies and local policiy are becoming more and more irrelevant : you do what the world deciders have decided, and if their decision is to unite the island, do you think you and I can do shit about it? I am not please to see what is happening to your country and I'd rather see my peasants stay home instead of going to flock into a foreign one where they are hardly tolerated, but there is an old saying that states : "Nobody can hear or listen to reason when his/her bowels are screaming", and now, those peasants' s stomach are screaming.
Written by: oupala07, 29 Sep 2009 3:37 AM
From: Canada
talks about erecting wall, army patrolling border, bloody clashes are childish speech. No country can dare to launch a genocidal man hunt on foreigners on their soil, most of all, if those foreigners are closely related to its population like Haitians are to the Dominicans. You do that and your risk losing, not only your sovereignty, but a lot of prestige and economic gain you have managed to gather lately.
You must find a way to absorb those people and turn them into your own nationals the same whay Belgium and Germany have managed to absorb a big chunk of their nothern Dutch population into fully integrated Belgian and German citizens.
Stop the non sense rethoric and face the reality, for if your government had the desire to prevent that peaceful invasion, you know fully well that it has the capability of doing so. So, if it hasn't done that, just ask it why, or better, try to understand what is happening.
We are not the masters of our destiny anymore folks. It's game over!
Written by: BASTA, 29 Sep 2009 6:39 AM
From: Dominican Republic, = Ghetto-SPM-Barrio Blanco
I was not dominican because I'm white. TRUE , NO SUCH THING
Written by: pelaut, 29 Sep 2009 8:23 AM
From: United States
Just wait. If they don't control it, or at least silence it, Obama will do a Clinton and tell the world that the DR must 'take care of' Haiti with foreign aid. No one else wants the problem, and after all, as Clinton said, they're the same people on the same island, and DR is rich.
Written by: CaptRob, 29 Sep 2009 11:19 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I employ only my Dominican Chofer. In the 25 years has worked for me has never made one attempt to learn to speak English. I pay him the salary he asks for plus give him and his family full medical. Just gave him my old inversor plus 4 one year old battys. too.

As to the Hatians I hire I also pay them what they ask for. The plumber, electrician etc. The difference is when they say they will be here at 8 am. They are here. I do not have to wait all day and, them not show up. Or show up only with some stupid excuse why they can't do the job.
Written by: Lautaro, 29 Sep 2009 4:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
pelaut said: "Just wait. If they don't control it, or at least silence it, Obama will do a Clinton and tell the world that the DR must 'take care of' Haiti with foreign aid. No one else wants the problem, and after all, as Clinton said, they're the same people on the same island, and DR is rich."

How can we be the same people if we don't even speak the same damned language, eh genius? And no, the DR IS NOT A RICH COUNTRY, it's another third (or perhaps fourth) world country with pressing problems of its own, ones that if not solved and/or controlled, will put it well on its way into becoming a failed state. Step out of the all inclusives and look the reality gripping the country for once instead of spewing nonsensical BS left and right.
Written by: MIRABUENO, 29 Sep 2009 4:42 PM
From: United States, The Lake of Fire
i can't believe clinton made such a comment. what a jackass
Written by: Micaela, 29 Sep 2009 7:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
So CapRob you pay your Haitian employees the salary they ask for? Did they ask for the same salary the Dominicans do? No wonder they are so good and timely. Anyway I imagine that your business should be permanently protected by the police, to prevent the mob to obstruct your operation, because when Haitians, that usually don’t take not for an answer, find out about the opportunity to earn, no only what they deserve for they work hard, but what they ask for it, the flow should be really, really hard to stop.

On the other hand, have you ever think of establishing an operation in Haiti? Just think about it; if all Haitians workers are like the one in DR, you would be undoubtedly successful in no time, and success is money. So why waste opportunity and money in DR with Haiti so close and full of promise?
Written by: CaptRob, 29 Sep 2009 8:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I pay the Dominicans what they ask for too. But, they never show up or call. There is no customer service here. I have had a protest with OneMax since April. Not once has, anybody come to my house. But if I don't pay me bill on time they cut my service. I could care less you does my work as long as they are far and, honest. I assure i pay more than my fair share of taxes in this country. Plus my taxes in the states too. Plus donate to many charities along the way. Would just love to be a fly on the wall around you.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 12:07 AM
From: Canada
"How can we be the same people if we don't even speak the same damned language, eh genius?"

My friend Lautaro,

I am pretty sure that this sentence/question has escaped you inadvertently? Well, never mind though, but let me ask you some good ones. Do the Belgian walloons and Flemish people speak the same language? Do the Quebecers and the other Canadians speak the same language? Do the TexMex (Mexican Texans) speak the same language as their other american counterpart? According to waht I know, in their own country their are all Belgians, Canadians and Americans.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 12:07 AM
From: Canada
"How can we be the same people if we don't even speak the same damned language, eh genius?"

My friend Lautaro,

I am pretty sure that this sentence/question has escaped you inadvertently? Well, never mind though, but let me ask you some good ones. Do the Belgian walloons and Flemish people speak the same language? Do the Quebecers and the other Canadians speak the same language? Do the TexMex (Mexican Texans) speak the same language as their other american counterpart? According to waht I know, in their own country their are all Belgians, Canadians and Americans.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 12:12 AM
From: Canada
I feel really sorry for you guys for the way you are looking down at us now. The problem is, and I am ready to bet my life on it, in a few decades, most of you, when you'll be mellowed by age and, most of all, when you'll see Haiti rises from its ashes, you'll be keen to have us as brothers, and embrace our culture, the same way you have embrace the merengue.
And you'll still be lucky for not having to face a spiteful nation, for it would have been good for your country health.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 6:33 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I'm sorry to disagree with you on this point, oupala, but a similar ethnicity (on this case, the common african ancestry shared by dominicans and haitians) is no guarantee of brotherhood. I'm sick and tired of these stupid gringos making use of this "you're all the same bloody people" BS line in order to wash their hands of any responsibility about the tragedies that have befell your country. And please, don't come with the flemish/belgian and quebecer/canadian example, cuz' last time I saw, the quebecers wanted to separate themselves from the rest of Canada, and the votation for that option was defeated by only a small margin. And in the belgian/flemish example, there are still tensions because the latter still have some hopes in rejoining their dutch brothers up north, just like some albanians from Kosovo want to rejoin with the albanian motherland. In sum, racial similarities amount to nothing when these are confronted with language/cultural barriers
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 7:01 AM
From: Canada
My friend Lautaro

Normally I should have rested my case, because you're right. In fact, as a French speaking person, I did actively campaign and votee for the secession of Quebec from Canada (I was an active member of the Parti Quebecois). It is the absolute truth that the marriage between the Walloon and the Flemish, the English Canadians and the Quebecers, the Kurds and the various nations among which Great Brtain has spread them, the Karen and the Burmese, the Dominicans and the Haitians will never be harmonious and loveful.

However, I can bet you a punched penny against a thousand dollars that if another nation would attack either Canada, Belgium, and Turkey to name only those three, all the bad blood between their two feuding main ethnic groups will vaporized like magic. It happened during the Canado/American war of 1812 where the French Canadians helped their English speaking counterpart defeat the Yankees.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 7:17 AM
From: Canada
It happened in the first and second World War (1914/1918) and (1938/1945) when the Belgian Army, even if it was for a brief period of time, fought against the German invaders. You must understand that there are some populations that have learned to coexist without bloody clashes, and have always presented a unified front against any outsider when their common interest are at stake, in spite being kept apart by ancestral discontent. The Afhgans, the pakistani, and some African tribes constitute an eloquent proof.

So, even if language, culture and ancestral distrust are walls erected between them, some ethnic groups will always find a common ground that will allow them to coexist more of less peacefully. Actually, in Canada, the Separatist movement has been defeated and the parti Quebecois has lost its clout even among the genuine French population. In Belgium though, the resentment between is still deep between Walloon and Flemish, but the central government, contrarily to
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 7:26 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I know, oupala. I'm not disgusted by the idea of coming together to address a common menace head on whenever the island's fate hangs in the balance, what I'm disgusted at is that the gringos and other europeans tend to play the separatist/union cards only when it suits them to do so, and not when the populations of the countries in question ask for any of the options. On the DR/Haiti case, the gringos like to play the union card because they want to (conveniently) dump Haiti's socioeconomic problems on anyone else's lap, problems that were caused, in the first place, by their insane support to the socioeconomic elite outfit governing that country ever since Dessalines was assassinated on a coup in 1806, without mentioning the fact that the country have been bankrupted by the gunboat and blood money policies imposed by their private banking institutions in Wall Street.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 7:38 AM
From: Canada
yours, which seems to enjoy the feud between our two people (hasn't it encouraged it? Hasn't one of them destroyed 32 000 of us in your homeland?), is working hard to have its two groups of feuding citizens to meet half way, like the Americans use to say in order to find a compromise. But you the Dominicans, you are not looking for compromise, but for blood and hatred even if you refuse to admit it
And that's why I won't blame a person like Captrob who, incidentally is a white. Why you do you have to get on his case if what he said is the absolute truth? Besides, he is living what he is saying every day.
No my friend, you are a bright, articulate and reasonable person, however, I can detect in your speech, even if it is somewhat faintly, the same Haitianophoby that fueled most Dominican heart.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 7:44 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
What is CaptRob's case? That we dominicans refuse to enslave ourselves to the same miserable wages that your countrymen like to work for? The fact that he is what we would call in spanish "un negrero miserable"? I'm sorry if you detect "haitianophoby" in my speech, oupala, but I'm just saying things as I see them, that is, that my country IS NOT A RICH COUNTRY, and that it can't give itself the luxury of providing for the outcasts of another society, specially when it has the duty and the need to provide for the needs of its own social outcasts FIRST. You can't expect us to take charge of your problems when we have plenty of our own to solve, and if you see haitianophoby in that, then I'm sorry, but I won't change my views one bit to satisfy the politically correct needs of some foreigners, specially when these last ones won't shed a tear in the case of our demise as a nation if we ever commit the insanity of taking more problems than the ones we already have.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 7:48 AM
From: Canada
If we were that different culturally, what don't you give us back your national rythm the merengue. Have you forgotten that it is us Haitians who gave it to you. And what about other cultural customs in your black population which my friend Frank has grafecefully introduced me to? Why don't you discard them and create your own?
In fact, and once again, you will refuse to admit by fear of being labelled a racist, that if we were white of clear skin, or even fair haired like most Guynase and Trinidadians of Indus origin, you'd be quick and happy to have us as immigrants, but we are ugly, negroes, dirty and poor so, you don't want any part of us.
The proof is haven't you accepted without any problem all of our mulatto or fairs skin ones among us with no problem? Don't say no, because I have a lot of them as friends and they told me what is happening over there.
My friend there is big difference between the real truth and the one we want to self accept as such.
Think about it.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 7:49 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
What negreros like CaptRob care first and foremost is for their pocket, and I'm deeply sorry if you can't see this. In fact, your not seeing this have the unpleasant effect of making you appear as an hypocrite, since you're taking the side of a dog-eat-dog capitalist, a group that haven't been too kind for your country, if we're to take the evidence at face value.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 7:55 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
oupala said: "In fact, and once again, you will refuse to admit by fear of being labelled a racist, if we were white of clear skin, or even fair haired like most Guynase and Trinidadians of Indus origin, you'd be quick and happy to have us as immigrants, but we are ugly, negroes, dirty and poor so, you don't want any part of us.
The proof is haven't you accepted without any problem all of our mulatto or fairs skin ones among us with no problem? Don't say no, because I have a lot of them as friends and they told me what is happening over there."

The problems between DR/Haiti are more than racial/cultural ones, and you know it. The truth is, if Haiti were to have a similar economic level than the DR, then the problems would not be that bad. In fact, for the first 30 years of the XXth century both countries were on the same economic level, and people crossed from one side to the other with relative ease. (cont...)
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 7:59 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont...) The problems started when both countries were unable to agree to a final, definitve borderline, cuz' the DR wanted the original lines of the Treaty of Aranjuez of 1777 (which put the Central Plateau on dominican jurisdiction) while the haitians wanted more land. The real price of the massacre of 1937 would not be the miserable pennies that Trujillo was forced to give to the haitian president Stenio Vincent to save face, but the fact that all those people killed allowed your country to make their de facto possession of the Central Plateau an official, de jure one.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 8:02 AM
From: Canada
That's where resides your impaired judgement my friend Lautaro. On the contrary, I must be very grateful to Mr Captrob for the well needed jobs he is giving to my people. In fact, I am a fierce anti american, but my anti americanism is not vectored toward the American people : they are one of the Greatest nations the world has ever known. They have managed to accomplish in only 200 years what it took the Roman Empire to do in 1000 ones.
I am against the politics of their Government. In fact, it is the only people who will always dare to oppose publicly their government when they know that the latter is wrong, the vietnam war is a living prof.
That is why, when their government wants them to abide by its doubtful politics, either it use the press to brainwash them or a combination of Press and false flag operation. It happened in the Chilean, Spanish (explosion of battleship) First (sinking of the Lusithania) and Second (Pearl Harbour), Vietnam (Tonkin Gulf incident), Afghanistan
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 8:04 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Then don't be pointing accusatory fingers of "slavery" at us, since you seem happy and content with the miserable wages that negreros like CaptRob are giving to your people. Is it impaired judgement that I want for your people to get more decent wages to stop the national salaries from being lowered more than they already are?
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 8:12 AM
From: Canada
(destruction of the World Trade Center), Second Gulf War (Weapons of Mass Destruction). I can't nurse any grudge against the common American citizen, for I spent seven and a half year touring their country in a delivery truck. I met all types and facets of their character and personality, and what I will never forget are their resilient when facing hardship, their hard working, their generosity, their self assurance which sometimes is close to egocmania, and most of all their patriotism.
Over all they're not saint, and I am not ready to give them the paradise without God, but they are free spirited enough to tell you what they think in your face whether you like it or not, And if I tell you that the most civilized and best person I have ever met in my life is a blond and blue eyed American, what will you think?
No, if I'd have to choose betwee the american people and the Dominican one, I'd choose the first, and the reasons are obvious, like it or not captrop is a living proof.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 8:18 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Then we'll have to agree to disagree, cuz' the only feeling that I will ever be capable of having for slavedrivers and profits-at-all-costs seekers like him is everlasting and unrelenting contempt. They're part of the problem and not of the solution, it's as simple as that.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 8:23 AM
From: Canada
My friend Lautaro, let's end it up here. I have gotten myself rid of that absolute negativism which made us in the Carribean to never acknowledge the truth when it hurts. You can remember my posts on this forum, and they are proof that when I am wrong, I don't wait for others to display my errors in my facr, because I will always be the first to acknowledge it. And in the event they catch my errors before I can even see them, I always sincerily and humbly apologize. It is a quality that is lacking among my people and all latin rooted ones.
Before I state comments on a subject, I try to understand it first then, I place it in its context. That is the reason why I am alway right in the money. And to go back to our friend Captrob, I feel furious on his behalf that his government has plundered his country economy to finance some "folie de grandeur" project that have left him and his family with a debt of 80 000 dollars and counting. That's where my anti american is vectored, and not
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 8:28 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The truth that I'm trying to convey to you is that the dominican people are not working not because of the pitiful excuse that the negrero CaptRob is trying to convey in order to justify his conscience (that is, the lame "dominicans are lazy" line) but the fact that they will never work at the salaries that haitians are willing to, because of the fact that these haitian salaries are pitifully low when compared with the remittances that they receive from foreign countries (the US, Spain, etc.). Once you take the remittances out of the equation, dominicans will be willing to work for ANY salary that the slavedrivers throw at them. If you're unwilling to acknowledge this economic truth, then it's not my fault.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 8:29 AM
From: Canada
toward his people and himself. In fact, my continental solidarity will always push me by their side in any war, even if I will tell them they are wrong if they are. And actually, his government has done more evil than good to my country and people, and he knows that, but what can he do? Besides, the fact to supply well needed jobs to my people is good enough for me, because it shows that the american individual doesn't necessarily embrace his government policy while most of you the Dominicans do with regard to your government.
It was a pleasure to have had this little chat with you, but I have to get off the bus, because I have a book to finish, and I am late on it.
have an excellent day my friend, and I hope that the eastern sunrise will help you see through the fog of your resentment toward us Haitians.
Written by: StanEarl, 30 Sep 2009 8:54 AM
From: United States
Good morning. However, both of u made valid points. But I want to hear. "solution" there is enough blame to go around. Both side are getting played. Remember things pass for what they seem, not for what they are. Because it is not enough to be right if ur actions look false and ill.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 10:52 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The solution, dear Stan, is in the enforcing of the existing migration and labor laws on the part of the dominican authorities at the local level, and a serious effort on the part of the intl. community to really reconstruct Haiti from scratch once and for all. Regrettably, both solutions imply ending the business of many bigwigs and slave drivers like the one we have on this comments thread. Only when the sh*t finally hits the fan, that is, when the haitians start to demand running the show on this part of the island too on account of their numbers (trust me, there are have been some articles written on this account on their media outfit, espacinsular.org by one Felipe Fortines) will be the moment when you'll see some real action taken to address the issue over here, and by then it might be too late for the dominican state/nation as we know it today.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Sep 2009 11:05 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
edited.
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 30 Sep 2009 4:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Listen I am tired of hearing we are the crap that we are the same people. Call it what you want to call it. The French and Italians are both white but each has its own sovereign country. I am not here to discuss whether DR and Haiti people are the same ethnic groups or not. I know what my people are and that is all that matters but Haitians need to be in Haiti and Dominicans in Dominican Republic! If one or the other wants to cross over then they have to go through each countries immigration laws point blank. Haitians could be black, white, chinese, Mulatto whatever you want them to be and we are what we are but each one respecting the others laws. I am 100% towards massive deportation of all ilegal aliens and pro the building of a wall along the Dominican side of the border!
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 10:03 PM
From: Canada
SORRY FOR THE MESS GUYS THIS PARAGRAPH NUMBER ONE

I guess you also 100% agree for the Porto Ricans and the Americans to deport massively all the Dominicans illegal living on their soil, and you’ll also agree with them to put their navy under full alert in order to forbid the poor Dominicans to invade their country. I have no problem whatsoever for you to deport every single Haitian back to Haiti, even those with Dominican blood; I also don't mind if you decide to erect your wall along the border. Then, who will work in your agricultural and your construction industry, you?
If I were you, I'd start having serious concern about those random power outages (black
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 10:03 PM
From: Canada
out) because it is a sure sign that you have economic problem. The United States of America, with which your economy is closely linked, are not importing much these days. They even forecast that their economy will crash this coming October. So, what you gonna do when the world financial system crashes on you, and your economy stops growing and start shrinking like the US one? When that will happen, I'll be here to ask you whether you still want to deport massively my people from your country and to erect that wall of yours, and I won't be interested in hearing you saying No! Because it will a low class lack of gut and personality.

You people are living inside a mirror bubble which is warping the outside reality. If you knew what is about to fall on our head, you’d pee in your pants. The world economy will never recover from the financial disaster provoked by the United States government irresponsibility and the greed of its politicians who have all been bought by the
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 10:10 PM
From: Canada
International bankers who forced them to throw their population into economic slavery. Do you know how much money each American family owes so far to the Great lenders of the Federal Reserve which is a private institution? Well, the last time I checked, the counter stopped at 78048$ for each one of them, and it stopped at 10.2 trillions dollars for the US government debt. Why the counter stopped? Because it run out of digit: the gentleman that set it into motion never thought in his wildest dream to be the witness of such massive deficit and financial disaster. He plans to restart it and to make it count the quadrillions. While I am talking to you now, the US debt can be well over 11 trillions dollars with the compound interests. And remember, the richer you are the harder you’ll feel the pinch of budget and GDP contraction.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 10:13 PM
From: Canada
THIS ONE IS A DOUBLE OF THE FIRST AND IT SHOULD BE HERE

I guess you also 100% agree for the Porto Ricans and the Americans to deport massively all the Dominicans illegal living on their soil, and you’ll also agree with them to put their navy under full alert in order to forbid the poor Dominicans to invade their country. I have no problem whatsoever for you to deport every single Haitian back to Haiti, even those with Dominican blood; I also don't mind if you decide to erect your wall along the border. Then, who will work in your agricultural and your construction industry, you?
If I were you, I'd start having serious concern about those random power outages (black
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 10:15 PM
From: Canada
THIS ONE IS A DOUBLE OF THE SECOND

out) because it is a sure sign that you have economic problem. The United States of America, with which your economy is closely linked, are not importing much these days. They even forecast that their economy will crash this coming October. So, what you gonna do when the world financial system crashes on you, and your economy stops growing and start shrinking like the US one? When that will happen, I'll be here to ask you whether you still want to deport massively my people from your country and to erect that wall of yours, and I won't be interested in hearing you saying No! Because it will a low class lack of gut and personality.

You people are living inside a mirror bubble which is warping the outside reality. If you knew what is about to fall on our head, you’d pee in your pants. The world economy will never recover from the financial disaster provoked by the United States government irresponsibility and the greed
Written by: Micaela, 30 Sep 2009 10:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic
If you don’t believe that CaptRob's is "un negrero miserable" let him tell you that he is sponsoring his Haitian employees, (that any employer can do) so they can have their papers and be on their way to legalize their and their family migratory status in DR. Sure he will tell you that he registered them and all are covered by health insurance and our social security system for employees.

But if I know anything, like the others who exploit the cheap Haitian labor, blatantly violating the work laws of my country, to make themselves rich, he has not even think about it and use the labor and let them fend for themselves, including immigration raids. People like him, refusing to pay Dominicans fair wages, employing instead cheap labor, is responsible for the massive immigration of Haitians to DR and are the only ones profiting from it.
Written by: Micaela, 30 Sep 2009 10:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic
oupala07 don't feel sorry for us. We are not looking down at you; we are looking up at our survival and for someone else to take the burden we are now carrying alone. Don't be hasty betting you life, because looking carefully it doesn't look like nor you, neither we, would be alive by the time Haiti rises from its ashes. And what make you think that when it happens we would be sunk? The problem with your next analysis is that if somebody is attacked, would be DR to forcefully accept Haitians as national minority of a situation like Kosovo and for obvious reason, Haitians would not fight for or with us. And wake up, there are not common interests at stake here. The interests of Dominicans in regain their jobs, schools, hospitals and even corners to beg is not the interest of Haitians occupying those positions. Remember, we are not one nation separated or spreader in the same territory, we are two people with their own separated territories, w
Written by: Micaela, 30 Sep 2009 10:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic
You are so out of the mark. All Central American countries have the same racial mix, language, religion and culture but everyone is a sovereign country, of course with immigration laws. You simple don’t collect your things and family in Honduras and move to Mexico, as Haitians do to DR, it doesn't happen. That Mexicans don't want to cultivate the land is not excuse for farmers from other countries to move there and do it as if that were a 'free for the taking land'. It would be called invasion, abuse, violation and called for the hardest punishment as an example for the others. It is the same for South America, where except for Brazil, they all have the same roots. Are they joined in any way or consider themselves the same people?

Regarding the "ugly, negroes, dirty and poor", tell me why other Caribbean countries don't want them neither, why they are not embraced as brothers when they reach their beaches? Are they racist too? No, racismshas nothing to do, is bein
Written by: Micaela, 30 Sep 2009 10:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic
being poor, illiterate, maybe sick and unskilled and over all, way to many. Did you know that France make an official complaint to the DR government because 1000 Haitians had reached France illegally from DR and that was for them a huge number?

oupala as Dominicans say: you are singing and crying. "the problems between DR/Haiti are more than racial/cultural" but at the same times recalled that "for the first 30 years of the XXth century when both countries were on the same economic level, people crossed from one side to the other with relative ease" How could that be if the problems are racial/cultural? You yourself proved, when Haitians did not come to stay, because they were hungry and life in Haiti unbearable, when they didn't compete with the poorest Dominicans for job, lowering the salaries, taking seat at school, beds at hospitals and corners to beg, there was not problem at all. They crossed unmolested. As you can see the problem is of a different kind, is sheer numbers.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 10:51 PM
From: Canada
BEFORE LAST PARAGRAPH. Jesus it's not easy post a long text on your forum guys. ONCE AGAIN SORRY FOR THE MESS. I'LL TRY TO BE MORE PROFESSIONAL NEXT TIME.

You are not even aware that you’re being robbed every single day. If you were spending your time about knowing what is happening instead of filling your head with crap left and right, you’d have noticed that according to deflation rules, the cost of living should have been falling well below the level of 2008 due to the fact that when the amount of money and credit available has shrunk, prices should be falling. Now, take a look around you tomorrow morning when you go to town and tell me if prices have fallen.

Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 10:51 PM
From: Canada
LAST PARAGHRAPH

Innocents like you always get on my nerves, but knowledge has helped me become wise enough to see through your little manipulated mind. So, my friend erect your wall and let’s see what will happen if a few months. And remember that I have saved your speech and your name in order to get back to you, because I am one of those Haitians who never forget. By the way, do you know how much each Dominican family owes to the Big Bankers? Simple, divide your population by four (the number of people in a normal nuclear family, and then divide the result by the amount of debt. Don’t pee in your pants when you find out how much your family owes.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 11:12 PM
From: Canada
Micaela,

Don't try to lecture me because I don't think you are academically advanced enough to teach me anything. I did my classes in politics by being during several years an active member of one of the largest political party in Canada (the Party Quebecois of the province of Quebec). I was a recruiter and an activist and I was pushing hard for the Quebec independence. I understand perfectly the politicians and the Press double language. For instance, take a look at the title of your article : "Haitian "herds" invade Dominican Southwest. Even though I know that the word herd refer to a group of people with common bond, meanwhile, it also means : "a number of animals of one kind kept together under human control", And your writer even give a hint of what he means by herds with regard to Haitians. And you'll start screaming and yelling later that we misunderstand what your idiot mean by herd. I kow how to use double talk too, don't worry. I won't ever forgive you that.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 11:24 PM
From: Canada
In other times, I would have let you hear an earful, but I have mellowed over time in front of human stupidity and silliness. And I am repeating to you today what the Taliban fighters have said to the Yankees: "You have the watch, we have the time." So, enjoy your arrogance all you can today because I know what's gonna happen tommorow.

And believe me, if I was the president of my country today, I'd start repatriating my fellow citizens from your country, and when every single one of them would have been back home, I'd shut down the damn' border and start importing or growing everything I need to feed them. I'd see if you'd be that arrogant with us.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 11:31 PM
From: Canada
You people think so small and are so egomaniac that I wonder if you really are not aware what has happened to you and what will happen pretty soon. Anyway, you'll find out soon enough.
When the money well will run dry for every major economic power except China, Russia and Brazil I'll still be here to find out to whom you're going to turn to pan handle.

When those power outages will be more and more frequent and that your industrial output will start shrinking, and that you will not be able to repair those crumbling infrastructure, your tourist industry will collapse due to "no more visitors", and your government will be unable to pay its debt or forced, like in my country to deviate the money it should normally take to take care of its people and give it to the world financial institutions like the world bank and the Imf. Then you'll be welcome in our nightmare, because that's what we've been suffering for more than a decade now.
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 11:48 PM
From: Canada
You're still so ignorant about Haiti and its people that you can't even comprehend that in the beginning of the 20th century we had some statemen who launched us on the development path right alongside of other proeminent countries. Try to Google name Like Cincinntus Leconte and you'll find out what Haiti looked like in the beginning of the 20th century. Where were you when we were the first country in the world to project a movie by the Lumière Brothers? Where were you the Dominicans when our aviators were taking part in transcontinental rallies? Where were you when we had the telephone before some major European countries? How many people from your country have sunk with the Titanic? At least we Haitians were part of that historical tragedy because we had one. Where were you when our tramways were running in downtown Port-au-Prince? where were you when we had more than 3 000 kilometers of railroad lines and trains crisscrossing our country?
Written by: oupala07, 30 Sep 2009 11:57 PM
From: Canada
And finally where the hell were you the Dominicans when our heads of State were dropping spanning bridges accross our rivers?

If you put in your mind that just because our country has been destroyed by the Yankees and the French with your interested help and that now you think you can trash us and piss on us thinking what you are seeing now is the real Haiti, I guess you are in deep delusion, because you can mark my words today, one day you will have to apologize for your miscalculation. I have always had a certain brotherly feeling toward you the people from the East, but when I see premedited and welll calculated insults like this one, I wipe my butt with every single remnant of emotion I had for you. And as far as I am concerned, your country can burn, I won't give a rat for that.
You can do whatever you want with those idiots individuals with no charecter and personality that keep flocking to your side. As far as I am concerned, you may hacked them and burn them, I won't care,
Written by: oupala07, 1 Oct 2009 12:01 AM
From: Canada
because if they were fitted with a character like mine, they would have starved to death in their homeland rather than going to yours and get humiliated. Never mind though we ain't going nowhere from our side of the island, and we still have plenty time to talk about the same subject. I do only hope for you that the politician who will be in power in those time won't be another Aristide, because you know that he will remember you very well.
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 1 Oct 2009 1:20 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Answering your first question oupaula yes I am for Puerto Rico and the United States deporting their ilegal aliens if those are their laws. My family and I lived in the USA for 24 years and we were quit aware that we had to bound by their laws and regulations. If Haitians do not want to get deported then they need to get their legal situation stabilzed otherwise all ilegal aliens are to be deported! In the USA they deport ilegal aliens all the time and they have all the right to do because it is their country not ours. In Dominican Republic we have the right to deport ilegal aliens because it is our country not anyone elses!
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 1 Oct 2009 1:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic
With regards to the agricultural industry the government needs to implement as I have said many times before a quota system where they give the immigrants a work permit for the time that the work they are doing needs. After it expires they must return to their country and immigration should be held responsible to follow through with this. If I am not mistaken this is what the director of immigration and National Police agreed on implementing throughout the country to try and minimize the number of ilegal Haitian Immigrants in our country.
Written by: Micaela, 1 Oct 2009 8:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
That was the beginning of the 20th century, this is the 21th and and even you know that past glories don't feed Haitians bellies, or provide shelters, clean water, basic services or health care. Do you know where are now the Greeks? Does their glorious past put them into the first 20 countries of today's world? It doesn't matter where were we, the important matter is where are you now, when it matters. You would do yourselves a favor stopping the litany of the past Haitians glories and focus on the dire present and the way to overcome it.

I understand that as far as you are concerned, my country can burn, that is finally being honest, but have you give a thought about what will happen with the Haitians here and the ones in your country depending on them? Would you care if my country burn and your people then have to turn to cannibalism?
Written by: Micaela, 1 Oct 2009 8:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
lol. You are safe, feed, have clean water, shelter, health care, services, a job, but you talk about a character like yours, of starving to death in you homeland rather than coming here to get humiliated. That is exactly the situation, they and their families are starving and somebody like you that have not gone without food for one day talk about character. Why don't you go back to Haiti and put your money where your mouth is. Go, learn what is to live there, without water, basis services, safety; share their fate and then you will know if you still want my country to burn or like them, would be grateful for the opportunity to escape that hell.
Written by: guillermone, 2 Oct 2009 11:49 AM
From: United States
Look folks the Haitian invasion is nothing new. Haitian attempts to take over the DR has been on the agenda since before Haiti became a nation. Previous military interventions against the DR have not worked and all been failures. The new strategy and tactic now is a non-military take over of the DR. It is clear, more and more of their force is gaining ground each and every day. We have close to 2 million unarmed soldiers infiltrating to take control of every single segment of Dominican society. That is what is happening and pretty boy leftist Leonel is an accomplice. Never in the history of the DR did we ever have such an immense number of invaders on our side of the island regardless of whether it was military or otherwise.

Folks please let us not forget what Dessalines forces did to our Dominican people. It was 1806 in the town Moca and other parts of Cibao, Haitians killed and decapitated thousands of innocent women and children in an attempt to errase and destroy our culture
Written by: Pepe32, 2 Oct 2009 2:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
It's not worth arguing with Haitians ,they may be barefoot ,ignorant and destitute and still believe they are great!

Haitian ego's are exponentially greater than their minds to the point that even sinking in the Titanic is thought of as a great accomplishment !

Este foro esta contaminado de Piti's ,!!hay que fumigarlo!!
Written by: StanEarl, 3 Oct 2009 4:57 PM
From: United States
All the disrespect, the big ego, I am beter than you attitude will not accomplish anything so why even getting into it. Guillermone regardless of what happened or who said what, it doesn't matter. Because if we are concerning ourselves with what happened in the past, we will never move forward. We need to deal with the situation at hand. Why not work fixing or help fix what's happening now. Our past make us who we are and we have to find a common ground to solve our differences. Like it or not we still have some connection through our African ancestry. No matter where we go (Black or light Skin) we are still "inferior" compare to them. If we holding on to the past insult and injury we will never reach our goal. And would of still be fighting wars. Think about it. ( England Vs new America Vs Mexico Vs the Native American Vs France Vs Spain vs African in Haiti Vs etc)
Written by: misshaiti, 4 Oct 2009 12:50 PM
From: United States, Orlando,Florida
how are haitians taking over the dominican republic. We have our own place on the other side of the island. They would've been able to live there if the president wasn't just sitting on his butt. A nd guillermone person they could've handled it peacefully. If they wanted to try. intsead of killing each other. but still haitians are getting really ignorent dont go somewhere you're not wanted I have learned just lik a thousand ppl dont want me on this site cause im not dominican.
Written by: guillermone, 5 Oct 2009 11:11 AM
From: United States
To StanEarl-THE PAST IS A GOOD INDICATOR OF FUTURE PERFORMANCE.

What is to your estimation a good way to solve the Haitian invasion?
To work out what? What solution to you propose? What is there to work out?
Written by: HONEST, 7 Oct 2009 3:34 PM
From: Netherlands Antilles
Here is the solution to this problem..Haitians should move to this side of the island, Dominican should move to puerto rico, puerto rican should move to the USA, and so on(lol just kidding!)
Written by: Atabey, 8 Oct 2009 9:19 PM
From: United States
Guys we need to be clear and present to the world a common, decent and respectful front. The problems of Haiti need to be resolved fundamentally by the Haitians. Since most people do not know the historical records and are thus ignorant of the numerous invasions on the part of Haiti to unify the island of La Espanola, we need to present a fact sheet to dismiss the nay sayers.

The first thing I tell any person who has opinions on the Dominican-Haitian Problem is to refer them to Moya Pons National History of the Dominican Republic. And tell them to underline the number of Haitian invasions into Dominican territory. After reading the text, they can begin to understand the current predicament. I don't hate Haitians and I don't want Dominicans having to answer for the national shame that has develop in that unfortunate part of the island. The French and the US government need to set-up a multi-decade developmental plan with thousands of teachers and professionals to help Haiti.
Written by: guillermone, 9 Oct 2009 11:59 AM
From: United States
Well said Atabey-I agree 100%-Dominicans in general do not hate the Haitians people, yet we are getting a bad rap for the right to defend our national sovereignty. We don't want the massive influx of impoverished Haitians, invading our territory, yet we are kind enough to allow their entrance and provide them with jobs, but most significant has been the millions of dollars spent for free education and medical care regardless. We take urgently needed resources away from our native population to provide for the needs of undocumented aliens which do not contribute tax revenues to the state. However, the international community fails to take note Haitians are a drain and recognize of our efforts to help Haiti, instead uses xenophobia as the motive to make us look bad. The world needs to know and become familiar with our constititution and understand the historical ramifications which for centuries has required us to remain defensive against foreign invaders whether Haitian or otherwise.
Written by: zak325, 9 Oct 2009 11:59 AM
From: United States
Haiti was not always a basket case nation, but when it was stable, it was led by dictators. Perhaps democratic rule isn't for everyone. Look at what happened in the former Yugoslavia when Josef Broz Tito died, or what took place when the President of Rawanda was killed in 1994. Russia was a fairly shakey nation just after the collapse of the Soviet Union in1990. Maybe Haiti needs the strong hand of a leader who sees the benefit of a stable nation. at laest in the time of the Duvaliers the thievery was concentrated. Perhaps they coud have ruled the nation better, been a little more equitable with the nations wealth. a stable Haiti would drasticly cut down on the numbers of people fleeing to the DR, where times are tough enough for Dominicans.
Written by: Pepe32, 10 Oct 2009 12:29 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Democracy needs a very educated and stable population ,ignorant populations are very susceptible to populist trends which change like the wind and the most important part of progress in a personal or national sense is STABILITY.

Unstable people change their minds radically all the time and this means that democracy in such an unstable population is not conducive to progress thats why I have proposed that Haiti be made a UN protectorate for 50 to 100 years with mandatory education and an international governor be appointed to run the Haitian state ,self rule would be gradually be phased in after all the old blood has passed on .

Backwards ideas like vudun and pseudo languages would also be phased out by teaching either English ,Spanish or French to the school children.

Tourism would be developed and the nation would be re-forested.

Haiti could become truly independent instead of a pride worthy of the emperor with no clothes!
Written by: Atabey, 11 Oct 2009 2:29 AM
From: United States
French political scientist Aymeric Chauprade said that the Dominican Republic would not be able to implement a development strategy to improve the lot of millions of its poor citizens as long as it continues to tolerate uncontrolled Haitian migration. He added that issues surrounding this problem are also generating negative publicity in the European Union. He said that, "all policies that try to get the poorest class into the middle class are going to be affected by this migration, and President Fernandez understands this perfectly."
Accompanied by Rosanna Pons, the Coordinator of Geopolitical Studies at the Global Democracy and Development Foundation (Funglode), Chauprade, a critic of United States foreign policy and a defender of the move towards the left currently under way in Latin America, said that the solution to the Haitian problem is not in the hands of the Dominican Republic or the United States, or even France.
He said that "the problem in Haiti is one of identity... an
Written by: Atabey, 11 Oct 2009 2:29 AM
From: United States
Guys, I copied the news below and offer it as proof that when we Dominicans state that Haiti's problems have to be solved by Haitians, not Dominicans, the basis for our reasoning stems from knowing fully well the overwhelming negative odds if the DR should engage in allowing the problems of Haiti to undermine the future stability and modernization of the DR. Help Haiti where and when possible; a stable and free Haiti with a growing economy IS GOOD FOR THE DR.

"French political scientist Aymeric Chauprade said that the Dominican Republic would not be able to implement a development strategy to improve the lot of millions of its poor citizens as long as it continues to tolerate uncontrolled Haitian migration. He added that issues surrounding this problem are also generating negative publicity in the European Union. He said that, "all policies that try to get the poorest class into the middle class are going to be affected by this migration, and President Fernandez understands this p
Written by: Atabey, 11 Oct 2009 2:33 AM
From: United States
Read the last line. It says it all.

French political scientist Aymeric Chauprade said that the Dominican Republic would not be able to implement a development strategy to improve the lot of millions of its poor citizens as long as it continues to tolerate uncontrolled Haitian migration. He added that issues surrounding this problem are also generating negative publicity in the European Union. He said that, "all policies that try to get the poorest class into the middle class are going to be affected by this migration, and President Fernandez understands this perfectly."
Chauprade, a critic of United States foreign policy and a defender of the move towards the left currently under way in Latin America, said that the solution to the Haitian problem is not in the hands of the Dominican Republic or the United States, or even France.
He said that "the problem in Haiti is one of identity... and they won't find their political stability until they find their identity."
Written by: misshaiti, 11 Oct 2009 2:09 PM
From: United States, Orlando,Florida
Everyone already knows haiti has to solve it's own problems. I f they would just let his dumb lazy president leave we would be okay with aristid. the ppl actually ate with them it was way better. until mr preval came and did nothing. Wait how long does a president stay president in Haiti cause preval has 2 leave. At least we are the 1st carribean well afro carribean island with freedom. But the poorest island in the carribean. Damn u loser president bush!!!!!!
Written by: Pepe32, 11 Oct 2009 2:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Sorry,misshaiti but you were never free ,you got rid of the French and began a wholesale massacre on your side and then marched to the east with your racial cleansing hordes.

You then went from one dictator (King and even emperor) to another and now are under UN "supervision" besides freedom implies economic freedom and if you depend on the rest of the world to support you ,you are not free .Haiti acts like a juvenile that wants to be free but still expects the parents to support them.

Unfortunately Haiti is not ready to be independent because of the cultural backwardness and only a long term concerted effort can correct that.
Written by: misshaiti, 11 Oct 2009 5:23 PM
From: United States, Orlando,Florida
excuse mii. I am free okay. I wasn't even born in Haiti. But dont bii all strate up rude talking about oh we never had freedom. yes we do. The only reason haiti is so broke down is because there isn't any working together plus the presidentt does nothing to try to fix that while thousands of ppl are starving down there eating mud cookies those only get them sick. We won that stupid war with those french ppl fare and square I'm not going to let some random person break me down. And there aint nothing wrong with our culture. And what the hell is racial cleansing hordes. I aint racist. And if we were never free who was taking care of us other than god? And what king or emperor or whatever you're saying. I know Anacaona was the queen of haiti she was taino. And she got hung when she was 29. I dont know nothing about haiti having an emporer. Woo I talk alot okay pce!
Written by: Micaela, 11 Oct 2009 9:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic
misshaiti, Haitians won the war, but paid millions to France "as indemnification and to avoid been invaded again". Your great liberator, the Father of Haiti Dessalines was precisely the first Emperor and after him came Henry, who constructed his own palace, known today as the Citadelle. He talked about racial cleansing hordes, because they killed all the whites in Haiti and the only survivors were the ones who accepted being called 'negro' They even make then say words difficult for non black, so they were sure who they were killing, when the victims were only mulatos. And the cause of Haiti problems is not today president, but the same ones for 200 years. The 5% rich black and mulato elite that own 90% of the resources and have never care for the Haitian people, plus of course the Haitians themselves, that instead of stand up and fight them, prefer to leave the country and look for a better life someplace else. That's not mystery, but history, read it and learn.
Written by: Pepe32, 11 Oct 2009 9:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Misshaiti you have been taught the fake "glorious" history of Haiti ,the French army was defeated by the mighty mosquito not the unorganized and untrained haitian hordes (Malaria)

If that were not true ,why did the Haitians pay the French the enormous indemnity instead of just beating them again ? Victors don't normally pay ,but such logic is lost on people who want to believe fairy tales of greatness.

Also ,the only time Haiti was successful was when the French ruled it ,as a matter of fact it was very rich but that richness was reliant on the most inhuman treatment of slaves known on this hemisphere so it is nothing to be proud of .

Written by: Pepe32, 11 Oct 2009 9:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haitians would do well to have a large dose of humility and roll up their sleeves to fix their country because nobody else will do it for you so instead of coming into Dominican forums to tell us fairy tales ,construct a real working nation with true freedom because though your forefathers kicked out the white French you never shook off the bonds of slavery because having a King,Emperor (how ridiculous!) or a dictator means you are not free!!


BTW ,another fantasy...when Anacaona was around none of the present day Haitians were around because the whole island was Spanish and the present day Haitians were brought on slave ships by the French much later so though the Natives used the name Haiti ,that Haiti and the modern day Haiti have nothing in common.

When Anacaona was around,most of today's Haitians were somewhere in West Africa and did not even know they would soon be "emigrating" to this part of the world.
Written by: misshaiti, 12 Oct 2009 12:40 AM
From: United States, Orlando,Florida
Oh well I did read the history of haiti and fell asleep in the middle.I'm pretty sure thats why I didnt know about emporer ppl's. Thats why I aint never like those stupid french ppl. BTW haitian slaves are from africa but the haitian slaves actually came from spain and then those slaves came from africa thats why some ppl call haitians afro latin. But thnx 4 the info. Ooh if I went out in public start arguining and saying that I would look STUPID! Okay thank u btw.
Written by: Micaela, 12 Oct 2009 8:46 AM
From: Dominican Republic
No, the French have nothing to do with Dessalines declarng himself Emperor, they were not in Haiti at the time. And you are worng, Spain have nothing to do with the slaves exploited in the west of the island, of course all came fron Africa, but the ones the latter became Haitians were broght by the French, that is why your people is the only one that don't speak Spanish, but creole. Maybe the afro latin has to do with Frech being a latin language, like Spanish and Italian, but not because is related to Spain.

Written by: misshaiti, 12 Oct 2009 1:14 PM
From: United States, Orlando,Florida
BTW im only 12 so dont be mean please.
Written by: misshaiti, 12 Oct 2009 1:14 PM
From: United States, Orlando,Florida
no im not wrong. Go to google put in haiti'shistory. Yes of course we're f african decendant. Every1 knows that. But yeh christopher columbus got the haitian slaves from spain this im not wrong on. Yeah haitians are from everywhere like arab haitians I dont even know what that is. But the first black slaves in Haiti where originally from spain. and they were from africa obviously. I've checked this way 2 many times to be wrong. I know what I'm saying here. BTW Dessaline declared himself emporer?
Written by: Pepe32, 14 Oct 2009 3:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
misshaiti you don´t understand ,the current reality known as Haiti started with the French Buccaneers on the western side of the island ,until then the only people on the island were the Tainos (natives) ,the Spaniards and a small amount of African slaves. The French eventually gained control of the western part of the island in what is today known as Haiti .They proceeded to import massive amounts of slaves (the ¨haitians¨of today) but until that moment your parents ancestors weren´t even in this part of the world yet SANTO DOMINGO was already a city with a Cathedral ,Streets and a Fortress .

So Anacaona was Haitian or Quisqueyana if you apply the original NATIVE nomenclature but the "MODERN" state of Haiti has NOTHING to do with the native entity except for geography because Haiti is closer to West Africa than to any other place in the world culturally and you have nothing to do with the Tainos.
Written by: misshaiti, 14 Oct 2009 4:57 PM
From: United States, Orlando,Florida
I know that I've had thousands of ppl's tell me that mostly haitian. My mom always tells me that. And my teachers. There weren't even haitians at that time they ainteven exist yet. We was somewere in africa, and so on. Yeh I have a question again I was listening to katdeluna and she said something about a bachata yeh what is that?
Written by: StanEarl, 14 Oct 2009 9:16 PM
From: United States
PePe what do u mean by a small amount of slave ?
what year are you talking about?.

African slaves were on the Islands since the early 1500, the natives population was shrinking rapidely about 20000 or less so they, therefore they had to bring the (Help). The French were just continuing the Spaniards business model.
Written by: StanEarl, 14 Oct 2009 9:23 PM
From: United States
MICAELA The first slave that came to the Island were bought by Spaniards 1525 mama
Written by: Atabey, 14 Oct 2009 9:48 PM
From: United States
StanEarl, Read your history again. Yes, the Spaniards did bring the first Africans to the New World, as well as gun powder, cannons, pigs, re-introduced the horse, etc. The Spaniards were not very good businessmen and the discovery of vast mineral wealth in Sliver and gold helped undo the Spanish economy by making their manufactures expensive relative to other European competitors. The French were far better businessmen than the Spainards and the vastly superior economic system they set-up in Haiti differed greatly from the cattle rising-Hateros-in the Spanish side of the island of Hispanola. Historical records attest to a great difference in the population sizes of French or Haiti and the Spanish or Santo Domingo(La Isabela). Yes, the Spanish side had slaves. One of the interesting racial developments in Santo Domingo was the gradual intermixing that over time created the first true Caribbean or American type: the part native, part white and part African individual.
Written by: Atabey, 14 Oct 2009 9:54 PM
From: United States
Part 2.

The Haitian invasions(11), the migration of many whites to Puerto Rico, Cuba and Venezuela, have given us more African tinge and strength. To sum up then, there was a vast difference between the way the French organized their repressive colonies, more efficient and more exploitive were the outcomes.
Written by: Pepe32, 14 Oct 2009 10:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Small numbers of slaves were brought by Spain ( Sorry different business model..) and those African slaves are incorporated into the current DOMINICAN bloodlines but Haiti did not even exist nor was it even thought of in the sense we know Haiti today.

Small numbers mean in proportion to what the French did only because the Spanish model (not as productive ) did not require as many slaves while the French would import an extremely large population of slaves that in the short run and with plenty of brutality gave them an immense return on their investments but that eventually laid the seeds for their own demise because the ratio of slaves to Frenchman was so high and the condition were much worse than the already bad conditions of most slaves elsewhere .

Dominican Republic did not have have the same conditions and independence was not the same blood frenzy that occurred in Haiti so the Dominican Republic was born with all its social classes mostly intact making it far easier than H
Written by: Pepe32, 14 Oct 2009 10:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti
Written by: StanEarl, 15 Oct 2009 1:05 PM
From: United States
Pepe thank u for the explanation...and Atabey read what Micaela said and you will undestand why I made that comment. Futhermore, I wasn't denying any truth. History is History written by a human who's to say whatever we learn are actually accurate or somewhere in between someone didnt twist the truth to benefit one group not the others. We just have to find it ourselves and make our own conclusion
Written by: HONEST, 20 Oct 2009 12:45 PM
From: Netherlands Antilles
I am glad to see many people knowledgeable about haitian and dominican history all I know is that my father is of african descendant and my mother is from british descendant and I was wondering why the african people who live on this side of the island were able to mix with the white island while most haitians preserve their african ancestry....All I know is that I've got the best of both worlds...lol
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 20 Oct 2009 2:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
HONEST,

Because #1 we had less African importation than Haiti did and second of all the Spanish allowed intermarriage between the whites and blacks while the French did not.
Written by: HONEST, 21 Oct 2009 11:42 AM
From: Netherlands Antilles
ah po' ta bien!
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