Written by: Atabey, 10 Nov 2011 9:20 AM
From: United States, NYC
Go Josean!!!!! This one is tailored made for you. Let it rip!!!!!
Of course, on this matter all criticism of LF is justified. These results are but a realization of an abysmal state of affairs concerning educational achievement in DR. 4% should be the absolute minimum amount spent in DR given the enormous need and huge deficits in this sector.
Written by: Mart1n, 10 Nov 2011 9:42 AM
From: Dominican Republic, North coast
They need to change the education system. Find the best teachers that money can buy and give them all the facilities they need. then video tape their class and send it to all schools. Get rid of the bad teachers and you will have the best education system for 90% less money The students deserve the best and no the worst.
From: Dominican Republic
As to investment in education, it called it well below the regional average, being "the second country in the region with lowet percentage of the GDP allocated to educative investment."
So who is the lowest? Haiti? Anyone know? Not that it really matters it is still very deplorable and something the international investors should be looking at before coming here....
Written by: raulm, 10 Nov 2011 10:28 AM
From: United States
it not all about the money. yes they need better school, more time,lights, books, teachers with pride but really it called determination and i will to learn. education starts at home. the way things are going now the only thing this kids are going learn is to be slick, steal, rob, sale there body, play dominoes and drink presidente. most people 18 and up can talk a garbage full but can't read or write. the d.r have the worse baseball field i have ever seen and most kids don't have gloves but dominican make up over 40% of the major league baseball, not that's determination. if you gave them all the money in the world, not even the 4% they want will reach the kids anyway. the answer is, start at the top, vote out the crooks, stop having babys you can't takecare of, live with-in your mean, stop giving all the jobs to china, have real pride, stop the greed, get a education and good old common since. the people say they beleive in God but don't do any thing he say or stand for.
From: United States
What can you hope to learn in 4 hours a day? All the people are Brutos but at least they have two metros. Thank LF!
From: United States, Washington, DC
Now that's F.... up! They can't even afford enough chairs and tables for all the students!!! C'mon Lionelllll
Written by: Atabey, 10 Nov 2011 10:45 AM
From: United States, NYC
"Written by: raulm, 10 Nov 2011 10:28 AM
From: United States
some get the world out to the right people. it not money. it called determination and i will to learn. education starts at home."
100% TRUE. EDUCATION STARTS AT HOME. But the nation and state MUST provide decent schools, lunch, and good teachers for all its citizens. At minimum a K-12 program of study should be the accepted norm of operations. This is the 21th century we're talking about!
Written by: RoyStone, 10 Nov 2011 10:54 AM
From: Australia
Stop blaming Leo!
He is a very successful politician because he does not give the people what they need, but rather what they want, and Dominicans obviously don't want education.
Written by: RoyStone, 10 Nov 2011 11:01 AM
From: Australia
Atabey,
The government has a responsibility to educate the children, not to feed them.
Written by: Atabey, 10 Nov 2011 11:08 AM
From: United States, NYC
Brekkie is important for children in poor nations like the DR. The cost will not put the goal of education out of reach and facilitate educational achievement.
From: Dominican Republic
Atabey ...you must mean the very nutritional white bread and poisonous milk they are giving the kids, great way to start the day, the basis of a good healthy "brekkie"....
Yes I know before you say it, it's better than nothing at all............???
Written by: RoyStone, 10 Nov 2011 12:04 PM
From: Australia
The education budget is hopelessly inadequate to provide basic education. The kids are only at school for 4 hours. It should not include a meal.
Sure improper nutrition is not conducive to learning. However there are many other factors too, that are not the responsibility of government. If the government is to take on the responsibilities that normally belong to parents, then they should also have the authority to adopt the children out to child-less couples who will give the children what they need, and sterilize the parents who don't.
There is a belief among many Dominicans that if God gives them a child, then God will ensure the child is provided for somehow.
From: United States
raulm says
40% of the major league baseball,
make that more like 27%. still, it is a formidable figure. as to education...well, without a CULTURE of education, all the king´s horses, and all the king´s men, will not change anything here, in that respect. this government spent over a million dollars building a state of the art parking lot for the Santo Domingo campus of UASD. it would probably put the parking lot at Harvard to shame. yet, as far as world rankings go, UASD comes in at 4300. maybe that money could have been used to upgrade the standards, rather than building yet one more monument to the legacy of king Leo, the first and only.
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
RoyStone you are way off the mark here .In most public schools the older students go to school in the morning and the younger ones in the afternoon ,simply because there are not enough rooms or desks or seats,,8 hours is not possible in most schools until we get more furnished scholl rooms . Some of my students leave home at about 6 or 6 .30 in the morning without breakfast and are often very tired so some milk and bread is justified, Remember that many children sleep 2, 3 or 4 in a single bed and do not get good sleep .
The teachers are not very good in many subjects and class discipline is bad .The 4% is not nearly enough to build sufficient class rooms and to train teachers ,What is needed is a sound plan and I have written before that the way forward is to have new high schools of a much bigger size that have art rooms, a playing field and a gym ..maybe 1000 to 2000 in a school ,instead of the hundreds of small schools with no facilities and insufficient teachers
Written by: RoyStone, 10 Nov 2011 2:34 PM
From: Australia
Here the government is blamed for not enough schools, inadequate breakfasts, etc.
However the real culprits are the parents who keep having more children they can't afford, and if they could, would not spend it on their real needs anyway.
Written by: okian, 10 Nov 2011 3:17 PM
From: United States
Bad and corrupt Governments always strive to keep the populace ignorant.
From: Dominican Republic
es que tenemos el IQ muy bajo...con tanta gente fea alrededor
Written by: Atabey, 10 Nov 2011 3:43 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: stillhere,
Atabey ...you must mean the very nutritional white bread and poisonous milk they are giving the kids, great way to start the day, the basis of a good healthy "brekkie"....
Yes I know before you say it, it's better than nothing at all............???"
Wrong again. A healthy and nutritious breakfast or brekkie in Aussie speak, followed by a good lunch and perhaps a snack later on, a piece of fruit say, are essential parts of an overall educational system for a small developing nation like the DR. Of course, a FULL 7 hour day, 5 times a week, for say 220-240 days of the year would be fantastic. Education starts at home and is supported by an institutional nation-wide system of education. Something along the French system where all students are essentially taking the same subjects, especially from K-8 grades, and any family move will not put any child in a difficult academic situation, as the curriculum would be the same for K-8.
Written by: Atabey, 10 Nov 2011 3:57 PM
From: United States, NYC
DR could easily get two Educational cycles, at least for the 9-12 group of students, for each building per day.
8 AM - 4 PM For the K-8 students. With extended afternoon to establish good fundamentals at the earliest stages. Homework done in after school program or extended day sessions.
7 AM- 12 Noon First group of 9-12 grade students. Perhaps this cohort will have the apprenticeship option and students will work after school in shops to gain experience.
1 PM - 7 PM Second group of 9-12 grade students. Perhaps this will be the academic track option with morning prep work leading to more intensive afternoon sessions. Internships during the summer break and winter break will serve to gain work experience.
Written by: RoyStone, 10 Nov 2011 4:13 PM
From: Australia
Atabey, as you stated "Education starts at home" and that is one of the biggest problems with Dominican education. Even adults who can read, don't, hence kids don't. Education is not a priority in the home. There is no money left for books after buying Jeepetas, iPhones, multiple TV, etc. Some people carry Bibles, but never get to actually read them. It is all about appearances. Mothers spend a lot of time fixing their daughter's hair ready for school, but completely ignore what's inside their head. Only the outside of their head can be seen by the neighbors. These kids spend far more time in front of a TV screen than in a classroom.
From: Dominican Republic
Atabey in Aussie speak it's called taking the piss, but you may understand it as being "sarcastic".
Marked by or given to using irony in order to mock.
"Wrong again. A healthy and nutritious breakfast or brekkie in Aussie speak, followed by a good lunch and perhaps a snack later on, a piece of fruit say, are essential parts of an overall educational system for a small developing nation like the DR. Of course"
And here I'll add a " woowww really" and yes again I'm being sarcastic..... Calm down ok... breath before you reply and start insulting me .... I'm of the same view about education in Developing countries as I have seen and worked ones far worse off than this one....
Written by: josean, 10 Nov 2011 6:50 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Some people here at DT and DR are arriving late to education bandwagon.
When many of us spoke out against the irresponsible investments in METRO’s, overpasses and tunnels, to the proverbial social nowhere, we were tarred and feathered verbally. We were labeled as being against “modernization.”
When we spoke about unbalanced investment, both by economic sector and geographic region, i.e. all the eggs in the tourism basket at the expense of agriculture and all the “infrastructure” projects in the capital and its environs (while ignoring the real needs of the rest of the country) we were ridiculed. We were told that we did not understating the new ways of globalization, exporting, free trade and all the flavor of the month rhetoric that was being mass produce out of FUNGLODE.
continued:
Written by: josean, 10 Nov 2011 6:51 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Ah, but now the reality chickens have come home to roost. So it appears that the overt analyses of major respected world institutions, as well as the covert reports, thanks to Julian Assange via Wikileaks, are forcing the clapping seals of Lie-onel Fernandez’s amen corner to begin abandoning ship.
No matter what “development” Lie-onel brought to the country, his utter disdain for the educational needs of the children of the DR has not only impeded progress in educational development but has harmed and destroyed irreparably the future possibilities of millions of children. This, as Trujillo’s legacy, will have extremely negative and lasting consequences for many generations to come.
Not only have we not improved, but as accelerated as educational completion has become in the world, we are literally falling behind every second of everyday!
We are facing a national emergency that has national security implications in the here and now!
continued:
Written by: josean, 10 Nov 2011 6:52 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
There is no example in the recorded human history of progress, development or the very sexy term “modernization” occurring without planned and sustained significant investments in education, from preschool to graduate education PERIOD!
In my opinion the human rights of both the born and yet to be born generations of Dominican children have been violated and our national identity and sovereignty are at risk.
Lie-onel Fernandez should be brought up on charges at the Inter-American Court of Human Rights or any other competent legal authority with jurisdiction!
Written by: RoyStone, 10 Nov 2011 7:26 PM
From: Australia
josean,
The Dominican "bandwagon" as you call it, is not big enough for even the smallest Bachatta combo. At the last protest march (for the government to honor their constitutional obligation to commit at least 4% of GDP on education) the masses of Dominican citizens were conspicuous - by their absence. There was only a hard core of teachers and university students there!
In a democracy the priorities of government are set by the majority of the people. The majority want cheap (preferably free) petrol for their mosquitobike and cheap (preferably free) electricity for their TV. Hence the government subsidies these to the tune of 11% of GDP, while education is less than 2% Yet they expect it to include a nutritious free lunch?
Written by: pelaut, 11 Nov 2011 8:13 AM
From: United States
Subjective and as insubstantive as the "report" seems, It may well be true. But you can't believe any NGOs these days. They deliver propaganda paid for by the vested interests, in this case the union thugs who claim to represent political appointees called teachers.
Written by: RoyStone, 11 Nov 2011 8:46 AM
From: Australia
pelaut,
Providing free baby-sitting (and lunch?) for disrespectful children of parents who don't give a damn about education, while receiving low wages, often weeks late - yeah, you really need friends in high places to get a job like that!
Written by: Atabey, 11 Nov 2011 10:28 AM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: dreadlocks,
raulm says
40% of the major league baseball,
make that more like 27%."
If the Minor Leagues are included the percentage is far higher.
" The legislation changes the visa status of foreign-born minor league players to be able to use P-1 visas, formerly reserved only for major league players, and an upgrade from the H-2B visas, generally used by temporary foreign-born workers in numerous industries. Each team previously was limited to 26 H-2B visas per season for its minor leagues. Major leagues have no numerical limitations with the P-1 visa, valid for a period of 10 years.
Given that over 40% of minor leaguers are foreign-born and that most of them are from the Dominican Republic, this will enable a continuous pipeline of Latin American players. MLB’s foreign academies house, feed, school and teach athletic skills to boys as young as 10 years old until they are age 16, who are then allowed to sign minor league contracts.
Written by: Atabey, 11 Nov 2011 10:29 AM
From: United States, NYC
In the U.S., a player must be 18 years old to sign a minor league contract and then must go through the draft system.
Young Dominicans have the opportunity to benefit from more than just baseball skills but preparation for a life in the U.S. as well. They are given a chance to at least temporarily leave a life of depravity. By the same token, very few of these youngsters statistically make it to the major leagues and even prior to their new visa status, hundreds of minor leaguers were brought to the U.S. each year only to be relieved of their services. Hundreds of Dominican players also never return to their homeland and remain in the U.S. as illegal immigrants, primarily surviving in the underground economy of New York City.
It has been said that Latin players in the Dominican Republic sign for contracts between 5 and 10 cents on the dollar compared to their U.S. counterparts.
Written by: Atabey, 11 Nov 2011 10:31 AM
From: United States, NYC
And with approximately 400 Dominican players signed each year to minor league contracts, MLB can celebrate its unhampered pipeline of such as well as its new surprisingly cozy relationship with the U.S. Congress which it lobbied along with the U.S. State Department, for these immigration law changes."
http://bizofbaseball.com/index.ph....catid=67:pete-toms&Itemid=155Written by: Atabey, 11 Nov 2011 10:40 AM
From: United States, NYC
As for educational achievement in DR, the words of TEMÍSTOCLES MONTÁS. Ministro de Economía de República Dominicana need to be taken seriously. To wit:
" In the Dominican Republic there is a serious problem. We are among the lowest taxed countries in Latin America, [contributing from internal taxation a low percentage of our national pie towards the great needs of the nation or people.] That does not allow more spending power. The pressure is around 13% and government spending represents only 16% of GDP. You can not think of building a society like that of Spain or Europe for that level of spending. There are many social demands and everything falls on the State, and everyone wants the government to spend, but nobody wants to sit down and hash out where to get resources for development. The big challenge is to transform the growth into economic expansion and social development for the nation or people."
If DR wants its modernization its people have to accept more, not less
Written by: Atabey, 11 Nov 2011 10:46 AM
From: United States, NYC
taxation and investments into all the large deficit areas. Education and housing being among the greatest deficits to close. The traditional low taxation rate and huge tax avoidance, has crippled the ability of the State to meet its people's demands for greater spending in schools, housing, and all the rest. There is a giant reason why some nations are developed, and it has to do with paying the price for modernity. 16% of GDP ain't going to do it for DR. At a minimum, 20-25% of GNP is the accepted level of contribution towards modernity schemes. With many fast modernizers putting over 30% of their GNP towards developments. China has a crazy contribution of over 40%!!
So it's rather simple, if DR wants to modernize and have good schools and housing, etc., it HAS TO PAY FOR IT!! Punto y Final.
Written by: Atabey, 11 Nov 2011 10:53 AM
From: United States, NYC
One last point:
Macro-economic stability will over time give DR a far better, LOWER RATE, to manage its debts and development. Right now investors want close to 6.5% to lend money to DR( this rate is not likely to be sustainable for the long term needs of the DR); with good standing and more experience at holding things in place, DR will see that rate drop to more sustainable rates: perhaps 4.5 territory! Gaining investment grade status would be a monumental step in DR's modernization process.
From: United States, California
An educated population can really F the politicians up, so why educate the future. Education is the only thing that keeps people off the street.
"IF EDUCATION IS THE KEY WHY THE MAKE IT SO HARD FOR US"
From: United States
Written by: Atabey, 11 Nov 2011 10:53 AM
From: United States
One last point:
Macro-economic stability will over time give DR a far better, LOWER RATE, to manage its debts and development. Right now investors want close to 6.5% to lend money to DR( this rate is not likely to be sustainable for the long term needs of the DR); with good standing and more experience at holding things in place, DR will see that rate drop to more sustainable rates: perhaps 4.5 territory! Gaining investment grade status would be a monumental step in DR's modernization process.
none of which means anything in the area of education. there are countries which have lower investment grades, but higher school grades. how does a 4.5% investment percentage rate help a kid to learn to do algebra?
Written by: Atabey, 11 Nov 2011 11:18 PM
From: United States, NYC
Dready,
Not right away Dready. and that's why this is such a difficult situation for the country. Basically all the prior nonsense and dismal investments in education, stretching back several generations, are coming to roost. Dominicans have to begin to demand more of themselves and give back time and effort to help the needy.
It's all about managing debt obligations. If DR shows the international community that it can hold to its targets and sustain its macro-economic stability, then the rate charged for its debt will go down while its debt rating will increase to investment grade status. With such an event, DR will then be able to access far more debt, at reasonable rates, to invest in all those deficit areas everyone-it appears-wants it to. Getting to this point is the difficult part.
Of course, it would be great if Dominicans could rely on internal savings and seek less international overall debt to mange its development; but that's not likely to be in the cards.
From: United States
so, let me see if i get this right. the dismal state of education is a function of the Dominican bond rating. i have heard some nonsense in my time, but that beats all.
Written by: Atabey, 12 Nov 2011 3:22 PM
From: United States, NYC
NO Dready,
it's: The DR can expect better future benefits by a lowering of its sovereign debt obligations and these could be used to address the vast deficiencies in education.
But I know you need to be spoon fed these days.
From: United States
says Atabey
it's: The DR can expect better future benefits by a lowering of its sovereign debt obligations and these could be used to address the vast deficiencies in education.
if i have to be spoonfed, the least i ca n hope is that the spoon is not being held by a guy at the bottom of the bell curve. do you think before you write such utter rubbish? do you realize how stupid you look when you say such things? do you seriously believe that the education deficits are a function of money? deficiencies in education? do you think that the problem lise only in money? man, i feel sorry for you. what you are actually implying is that the 141 countries that beat the DR in the last surveys are all in better economic shape. pathetic. i thought theven you had a bottom below which you could not sink. i guess not.
Written by: Atabey, 13 Nov 2011 4:35 PM
From: United States, NYC
"do you seriously believe that the education deficits are a function of money?"
When a nation spends close to 2% of its PIB on education and that nation has a very long track record of starving its educational system since................forever! I think it reasonable to say that in our Dominican context, the educational achievement deficit IS A FUNCTION OF VERY LOW SPENDING throughout the past generations! Again, why don't YOU DREADY read a good history of the DR. It's high time you began to acknowledge that your great deficit in DR history is causing you great problems in mentally digesting the issues concerning DR. Your Jamaican history does not qualify you-unless you prep up in Dominican history-to address matters so outside your information load.
With so much time on your hand try learning some Spanish and Dominican history might come in handy, too. :)
Written by: Atabey, 13 Nov 2011 4:44 PM
From: United States, NYC
Year 2000-2002
DR------------------------- Education spending (% of GDP) ---- 2.3% [122nd of 132]
Costa Rica ------------------Education spending (% of GDP) 5.1% [55th of 132]
Colombia:----------------------------------------------------------------- 5.2%
Dready's Jamaica---- ------------------------------- ----------- 6.1%
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph....edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdpAs you can see Dready, investments in Education do matter.
From: United States
says the bell curve man
With so much time on your hand try learning some Spanish and Dominican history might come in handy, too. :)
you assume too much. i speak, and read, spanish, fluently. sorry to disappoint you. one less ad hominem you can resort to. as to the percentages of GDP spent on education...how much does Japan spend?
From: United States
Atabey informs
Dready's Jamaica---- ------------------------------- ----------- 6.1%
that is to ensure that we do not turn out nincompoops like you. education might be expensive, but ignorance is even more costly. i mean, look at you.
Written by: Atabey, 14 Nov 2011 1:34 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: dreadlocks, 14 Nov 2011 11:50 AM
From: United States
says the bell curve man
With so much time on your hand try learning some Spanish and Dominican history might come in handy, too. :)
you assume too much. i speak, and read, spanish, fluently. sorry to disappoint you. one less ad hominem you can resort to. as to the percentages of GDP spent on education...how much does Japan spend?
---------------------------------------------Costa Rica-------DR
Education spending (% of GDP) 5.1% --------2.3%
Again, who's at fault for this great disparity? And given the very large previous deficits, DR should spend a larger percentage than Costa Rica!
From: United States
Atabey pontificates
Again, who's at fault for this great disparity? And given the very large previous deficits, DR should spend a larger percentage than Costa Rica!
and then, what would happen? i notice you sidestepped the question regarding how much Japan spends. i did not forget that i asked you.
From: United States
poor Atabey. he gives me a link to some data, which i have read a thousand times. then he says this
As you can see Dready, investments in Education do matter.
strangely, he does not show us any correlative evidence between spending and results, but gives a conclusion. all the gold in Fort Knox cannot cure the mental deficit that he possesses.
Written by: Atabey, 14 Nov 2011 4:59 PM
From: United States, NYC
So let me be clear: El dready states that there is no correlation between educational investment-spending-and educational achievement?
From: United States
Atabey, do you understand the difference beteen correlation and causation?
From: Dominican Republic
Ataby? do you read anything anyone writes or just presume they are wrong before you read it and the word just pass by your eyes and don't go in between the ears?
dready states that there is no correlation between educational investment-spending-and educational achievement?
Would you like to please explain how you came to this conclusion from anything dread has said? I have read it and see no example to justify the above statement by you..
From: United States
the guy is just a mental midget who believes that posting is a board game that some win, and others lose. since he does not have sufficient mental firepower to accomplish his goal, he fabricates and misrepresents what others say. he is best ignored. sadly, some people actually might think that he is intelligent, but i cannot imagine who they could be. he is a waste of broadband.
From: United States
Atabey, you are struggling to be thought of as some kind of scholar. the first step is to read all sides of an argument, not just the parts you like. you can start with this viewpoint from one autor
. Moreover, the inequality produced by globalisation and neoliberalism has generated a political backlash in many countries, including Australia. A modernised version of Keynesian social democracy, modified in the light of tight budget constraints and the need for monetary stability, remains an attractive option.
Written by: Atabey, 15 Nov 2011 12:05 PM
From: United States, NYC
"do you seriously believe that the education deficits are a function of money?" -El dready
"Would you like to please explain how you came to this conclusion from anything dread has said? I have read it and see no example to justify the above statement by you.. " -Stillhere
I assume you will be able to comprehend Dready's statement above. The understanding is very clear: dready is mistaken with respect to DR's perennial educational deficit. The DR, as I've stated many times, has STARVED the educational budget for GENERATIONS, in very few years spending-INVESTING-sufficient amounts to remedy the nation's large educational gap. The DR spends too much at the third stage of education, or college/universities, and not enough at the lower Primary level. Even the magical 4% of PIB is far lower than needed to bring DR to standards.
From: United States
says the cretin Atabey
I assume you will be able to comprehend Dready's statement above. The understanding is very clear: dready is mistaken with respect to DR's perennial educational deficit.
mistaken? i can read charts, Atabey. i am not the idiot who looked at a statistical model and called it calculus. i am not the ape who said that a scatter chart came out scattered. lest you forget, i am the one of the two of us who went to college. you only think you are bright. we all know better.
Written by: RoyStone, 15 Nov 2011 1:36 PM
From: Australia
Consider this:
4 hours per day, 5 days per week (provided there is no strike, sickie, truancy or it doesn't rain much) 36 weeks per year = 720 hours per year at school.
16 waking hours per day, 265 days per year = 5,480 hours
Hence each student spends at most, 12% of his or her waking hours at school.
How are they spending the other 88%?
Written by: Atabey, 15 Nov 2011 2:00 PM
From: United States, NYC
Now now dready let's not get carried away. It IS implied by your statement that monies-investment-spending-or whatever term you want to use is according to you not the problem concerning DR's low level of educational achievement. If you want to back track and say that's not your thinking now, well fine; just be truthful and say it. It will not be the first time you've been incorrect on DT. :)
RoyStone,
The above comparison between Costa Rica and the DR illustrates the great distance two similar sized nations in Latin America have tackled their educational quest. In Costa Rica, the leadership has for more than 100 years embarked on sensible and practical measures to ensure that there citizens have opportunities to reasonable educational achievement. In the DR, the drive towards National or comprehensive Primary educational achievement, to say nothing about secondary educational achievement has been abysmal. The public investment as measured by % of GNP in education in DR
Written by: Atabey, 15 Nov 2011 2:01 PM
From: United States, NYC
is atrocious to say the least. Really it's criminal and a dereliction of national resolve on the part of the leadership of the nation for many generations. Thus this sorry picture that we have before us did not begin with the current administration, nor will it be fixed in the near term. Only a consistent and long term program to first, establish as near possible 100% Primary educational achievement will begin to stem the problem. The focus needs to be placed on the Primary and Secondary achievement gaps which are extremely high in DR. College and University need to be trimmed and only the outstanding students allowed access on the public money. Thus, if you are poor but brilliant, a free education is offered on the public. Mediocre student, then you pay to play. Poor student, no go and pay for a private education. Private schools need not follow these standards, as they are privately funded.
As for the vast sea of illiterate adult population, a publically funded
Written by: Atabey, 15 Nov 2011 2:11 PM
From: United States, NYC
national program of night school could address some of those vast numbers. Some private source funding from international Grants and domestic sources would help establish the practices. But here, a National Civic minded program might help enforce the program's goal of stemming and reversing this educational malignancy that has plagued the DR for many generation.
Adults have to take charge and READ and cultivate the arts and sciences in DR. At some point, people have to make the commitment in time and resources to achieve better education. I've seen so many young people with so little by way of resources achieve far better results and achievements over other people far better blessed with resources to understand that at heart it is the individual that must demand of him/herself the right attitude and fortitude to seek intellectual nourishment.
From: United States
Atabey says
Now now dready let's not get carried away. It IS implied by your statement that monies-investment-spending-or whatever term you want to use is according to you not the problem concerning DR's low level of educational achievement.
it is implied ony by a cretin, who cannot understand anything more complex than the Macy´s catalogue. observing you trying to understand a simple concept is like watching a man trying to catch a fly i the dark. i will re-state that all the gold in Fort Knox will not, on its own, address the education deficit in the DR. i notice that you have completely ignored my question about the amount of GDP spent by Japan. as usual, you are a lowlife coward, who runs away when he cannot confront realities. i declare you pitful, and stupid too.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Nov 2011 12:33 PM
From: United States, NYC
Now now Dready stop that or you're likely headed for some heart procedure; and we don't want that, no?
I was giving you some time to THINK through you're idiotic request; but seeing that you continue to soil yourself, it's time to ask you to clean up your act. That "mud" in your glasses stinks, too.
"Japan. Although our premier trading rival makes better cars, electronics, and countless other products than we do, Japanese children--according to the reform chorus--are poorly served by the public schools; government expenditures on education total only 5.1 percent of the GNP.(13) However, as is commonly known, Japanese students excel in international comparisons of mathematical and scientific knowledge.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Nov 2011 12:36 PM
From: United States, NYC
Some analysts warn that cross-country comparisons of spending on education ignore an important variable: the level of private or church spending for education.(14) In Japan, for instance, most students attend special private schools at night and on Saturdays. That type of expenditure is not reflected in UNESCO's comparisons,"
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa126.html"Public Educational Expenditures in the United States: An Analytical Comparison with Other
Industrialized Countries"
Read also:
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/l/langd/Ram.pdfAs you can see. 5.1% of GNP is way above the levels spent in the DR. And Japan is a country with an enormously positive educational track record vis-a-vis the DR. Thus 5.1% of GNP in addition to all the private coaching and religious instruction given, that means more than 5.1% of GNP is spent in Japan Dready, in case you have trouble understanding that. :)
BTW, Japan's pop. growth is fundamentally static or negative unlike the DR. :)
From: United States
i gave you a reading list, so that you can go and educate yourself, if that is at all possible. you are the quintessential simpleton, who believes that this is a problem that will be solved if money is thrown at it. go read, and learn why it is that the education deficit in Latin America is what it is. it is not coincidence that all the low expenditure countries in the region are Ibero Catholic countries, while all the high spenders are British, protestant countries. you believe that it is coincidence that of the two countriess that border the USA, the one to the south is an eonomic and social basket case, while the one to the north is progressive, and properous? it is called CULTURE. as Lawrence Harrison says, the Ibero Catholic ethos focuses on the past and present, at the expense of the future.it focuses on individuals, and family, at the expense of the greater society. it enshrines orthodoxy, and is disdainful of work, creativity, entrepreneurship, and saving.
From: United States
as the Venezuelan scholar Mario Vargas wrote...the reforms that are required in the Latin American economy , its education, and administration of justice are almost impossible to effect. the entire system of customs and ideas will have to be reformed, or the chages will be ephemeral, at best. go do some reading, and learn something.
From: Dominican Republic
ok i think we ALL agree that the education here SUCKS,,,, right?
Yes I agree education "Good education" starts in preschool and at home with parenting and with in the community around the child...
But when Dread talked about all the money in fort knox fixing the problem is true... without good teach principals and the desire of parents to send their children to school, not have to rely on the few pesos they bring home from cleaning shoe ect.. Things will not get better with all the money in the world... Right?? Can we all agree on that??
We can all go on and on about who spends what and how much but it really has not much to do with HOW it needs to be fixed here... Yes more needs to be spent and parents need to take more responsibility as well as the rest of the community. But it's not addressing how to get the government to do whats needed, whats right and stop all of the posturing bullshit and just get on with fixing it........
From: United States
Atabey is so predictable, he makes me laugh. he trots out data from 1985, then runs off at the mouth, as if he thinks he WON. look, Atabey, i know that analysis is not your strong point, if you do have any. when you choose to debate, and rely on data, it must at least be modern, if not current. as of 2007, Japan ranked no 93 in the world in education spending, at 3.6%. even though that is close to the 4% the Delors Commision suggests, it has no correlation to the level of success that the country has attained. remember to do some more careful research in future , Atabey. your deficiencies are woefully manifest.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Nov 2011 1:33 PM
From: United States, NYC
But when Dread talked about all the money in fort knox fixing the problem is true... without good teach principals and the desire of parents to send their children to school, not have to rely on the few pesos they bring home from cleaning shoe ect.. Things will not get better with all the money in the world... Right?? Can we all agree on that?? -Stillhere
No one has claimed that monies-investments-spending or whatever other term you'd like to express greater resources into education DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SPENT WISELY! The issue is that DR, and if you are a Dominican like myself you know this as an INDISPUTABLE FACT: the country has starved the education sector for many generations.
1. How many schools need to be built and rebuilt and supplied in DR?
2. How many teachers need to be trained and employed to address the many thousands of students that receive no credible educational opportunities?
If you're honest, and not just argumentative like Dready, you very well know
Written by: Atabey, 16 Nov 2011 1:34 PM
From: United States, NYC
that much still needs to be invested and spent to bring the Educational Establishment in DR into modern standards of compliance.
What Japan spends on education is an asinine comparison given that:
1. Japan had its Meiji Restoration and massive industrialization OVER 100 years ago!!
2.And that Japan modernized its society quickly after the devastation of WWII BECAUSE it had ALREADY established a well stock quantity of well educated and scientifically trained citizens.
3. Furthermore, the Japanese are in slow if negative growth population wise and thus her large educational spending days are behind her. The DR has a growing population with lots of cross border numbers coming from Haiti and in need of even more public spending by way of education, health and other needs.
From: United States
Atabey says
, and if you are a Dominican like myself you know this as an INDISPUTABLE FACT: the country has starved the education sector for many generations.
look at what it did to you.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Nov 2011 2:09 PM
From: United States, NYC
Time past 12 NOON so clean your pampers old man.
2004 Data
Dominican Republic
Children out of school, primary 139,654
Japan
6,844
You can't handle this argument dready. Your position has been devastatingly destroyed. Now go change your pampers. :)
From: United States
you apparently believe that you are dealing with some of your old friends from the barrio, but you are wrong. the chart you supplied the link to was from 1985. i know that you are a compulsive, congenital liar , and lowlife, but the date is printed on the article. at least the date when the data was gathered. i know that figures are not your strong suit, but stupidity is. maybe if you yapped less, and opened your ears, you could learn something. then again, maybe not. disposition to learning is taught in childhood, and it is obvious that you come from a tree that does not value learning.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Nov 2011 2:32 PM
From: United States, NYC
Care to take this to the Forum?
Written by: RoyStone, 16 Nov 2011 9:15 PM
From: Australia
Comparing what percentage of GDP Japan spends on education with what percentage of GDP DR spends is irrelevant, since Japan's GDP per head of population is $33,994 US compared to DR's $9,280 US
Japanese believe in study, hard work, thrift, honesty, only having as many kids as they can afford, real national pride, and don't believe in an invisible man in the sky.
Dominicans are the opposite.
Q.E.D.
From: United States
well, Roy, if Atabey had a brain, he would understand what you said. sadly, there is a vaccuum between his ears.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Nov 2011 9:25 PM
From: United States, NYC
barking dog dready, Roy makes my point. YOU were the one who stated "what does Japan spend on education?" I told you it was nonsense since Japan was and is a completely different set of variables to the DR. Have you ever heard of the Maiji Restoration?
You see how idiotic you are? You can't even stay consistent on one thread!!
Written by: Atabey, 16 Nov 2011 11:15 PM
From: United States, NYC
Josean will have a heart attack with this one:
La primera dama define al presidente Fernández como “el gran padre de la educación”
CEDEÑO DE FERNÁNDEZ HABLÓ EN UN ACTO ENCABEZADO POR EL PRIMER MANDATARIO
Santo Domingo
La primera dama Margarita Cedeño de Fernández, definió al presidente Leonel Fernández como “el gran padre de la educación”, debido a su constante preocupación por el mejoramiento de ese sector en busca de preparar la juventud dominicana para que sea catalizadora de los retos del Siglo XXI.
Cedeño de Fernández habló en un acto encabezado el jefe del Estado, donde el Despacho de la Primera Dama, el Ministerio de Educación y el Banco de Reservas reunieron este miércoles en el Palacio Nacional a jóvenes estudiantes del país ganadores y participantes de las tradicionales olimpíadas nacionales de matemática, lectura y ortografía.
Indicó que los ganadores de dichos concursos son el resultado de un proyecto iniciado desde su despacho en el 2005 con muchas e
From: Dominican Republic
You can't just say Yes!!!! can you Atebey?? it would kill you to agree with what someone else has said... right!!!!
you had to put up something to make some other point instead of just saying yes ....or do you really not agree with anything I or anyone else has said ???????
Yes as you said "money needs to be spent wisely" and Yes I and everyone is not disputing that.... and on one has said different.. so why say it? I didn't...
Roy didn't make your point, he pointed out that the difference in the cultures can determine the amount needed to be spent on education...it's you that keeps copy/paste all these numbers, reports and comparing the DR to other countries spending...
i give up... all you really want is us to say is " Yes Atebey you are right.. all hail Atebey"...
king of the one sided debate
There is no finding common ground and discussing what can be done to help.....
Written by: RoyStone, 17 Nov 2011 9:26 AM
From: Australia
I hope to be proved wrong, but I fear the situation in this country will get worse rather than improve.
Consider DR's 3 biggest earners - #1 Tourism, #2 Dominicans in USA #3 Mining
That means most of DR's money comes from foreigners, not earned by locals.
#1 Is probably in decline and when Cuba comes on line will plummet
#2 I suspect these Dominicans will eventually give up on DR and adopt USA as their homeland
#3 Is largely foreign capital and will move off-shore if dealing with the corruption becomes to difficult
The Dominicans the country needs are moving offshore. Remaining are those benefiting from the corruption, or are poor peasants with no interest in education, self improvement or working hard.
The crime rate per 100,000, unlike DR's competitors, is steadily increasing, In real terms it is increasing exponentially because of the exponential population growth. And who's having most of the babies? Poor uneducated, teenagers.
Written by: RoyStone, 17 Nov 2011 9:28 AM
From: Australia
The exodus at the top and explosion at the bottom.
From: United States
Hey Mr Stone I saw ya posts about being with woman who look good been better than nowing politics and so on yet to go about mothers doing the hair and no education. you mixed up man. you like the nazi who steralise the people . you wanna kill the druggie; my brother addict and I lvoe my brother man and wnna save him.Yousick man.
From: United States
stillhere, i understand Atabey´s problem. all his life he has been a study in uninterrupted insignificance. he tries to feel like a winner by DEFEATING other posters. he will NEVER agree with anyone, regardless of what you throw at him. he is pathetic, but he can´t help himself, since he is mentally maladjusted.
Written by: Atabey, 17 Nov 2011 2:16 PM
From: United States, NYC
The only pathetic individual here hails from Jamaica. Imagine a Dominican talking BS about Jamaica's future when he professes to like Jamaica! In your mind you actually think yourself superior to Dominicans. You are a sad castrated old goat in need of thrice a day diaper changes. :)
--------------------
Stilhere: Who was it that requested Japan's data above? Who was it that stated that this comparison was asinine to the debate as Japan versus DR comparisons were unworthy of discussion? Just read it dude.
From: Dominican Republic
still can't find something to agree on ha!!!! still can't add something to move the conversation forward in a constructive manner?????
ok I think I'm all done with this..... anyone have something to add that may keep this interesting, constructive and helpful?
People added small and relevant pieces of data plus insight and moved on, you copy/paste data....
Written by: RonEvane, 17 Nov 2011 6:29 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Atabey. I'm with you on this one. Some fellows here are self-appointed PHDs and crystal ball gazers able to predict the future on all matters Dominican.
While it's true Dominicans generally don't care to send their children to school, or don't realize the value of a good education, more money, can, and will make a big difference in preparing our children for a better future.
These gazers are, in their heads, irrefutably convinced they know all there is to realize an accurate and tangible take on what won't work to reverse our path in education.
They are, for the most part, incorrigible pessimists who get their kicks by showcasing the illusionary knowledge on what's yet to happen. We, humans, given the right environment to grow mentally and otherwise, can accomplish anything reachable.
The key word here is "environment". Reasonable expenditure on education. With good schools supplied with the right materials, better paid/qualified teachers and longer hours will do the trick.
Written by: Atabey, 17 Nov 2011 9:20 PM
From: United States, NYC
Well stated RonEvane. I never said that investments should not be spent wisely. BUT the facts are that historically speaking, DR has starved its people when it comes to basic educational development. Any Dominican can point to their great grandparents generation, their grandparents generation, and even their parents generation and see the general, not specific, negation of basic K-12 educational achievement. The key operative word is GENERAL. The general population has historically been denied access to a decent K-12 education in DR. That is a fact. The DR has historically spent a miserably small percentage of the national pie on education; that's a fact.
All I'm asking for is a decent K-12 educational opportunity for all Dominican children. That should not have to be up for debate, it's too rational and modern a thought.
Check out the stats on DR here:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/d....total-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html Written by: RoyStone, 17 Nov 2011 9:32 PM
From: Australia
Dominicans are not denied education - they just aren't interested in it.
From: United States
Roystone,
Just piss off then man.why you here?
Written by: RoyStone, 17 Nov 2011 10:25 PM
From: Australia
Not to get an education, blackopal, I have already had one. When will you get yours?
Written by: Atabey, 18 Nov 2011 9:13 AM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: RoyStone, 17 Nov 2011 9:32 PM
From: Australia
Dominicans are not denied education - they just aren't interested in it."
Roy,
You say Dominicans aren't interested in education. Well if that were so Dominicans would not have staged bloody battles to during the 1960s, 1970s and even during the 1980s when government forces hammered, with the aid of about 40,000 Marines in the 1960s, popular uprising against their governments handling of domestic affairs, educational opportunity being one key point for all the unrest.
One unfortunate development in Dominican history is that the educational opportunity bandwagon has traditionally been driven with leftist credentials. and this has given the notion of universal education a leftist tinge. We all know why a dictator like Trujillo would not have been interested in promoting an educated population; but Balaguer followed a similar trajectory and he hammered the opposition with massive violence- check the history
Written by: Atabey, 18 Nov 2011 9:18 AM
From: United States, NYC
Killing off many young leaders in the process.
So it's not so simple as: Dominicans don't want to be educated. It's far more complicated than that.
Had the uprising against the government taken place today, it might be called the Dominican Spring and not an attempt at creating a second Cuba as happened during the 1960s Constitutional uprising.
Modernity is a function of an educated population. 2% of GNP for education will not get you modernity.
Check out the stats for DR:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/d....total-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html You can see graphically the historical trends for the Dominican Republic or any other nation at:
http://www.gapminder.org/world Written by: RoyStone, 18 Nov 2011 9:57 AM
From: Australia
Useful links, Atabey, thanks
I think those on this site are unanimous that 2.2% of GDP or 11% of government spending on education is miserably inadequate. My argument is, however, that this is not a priority for the majority of the voting public (and particularly those who don't even bother to vote).
It is a vicious circle and it seems nobody knows how to break it. Some argue that those who have the power (the political, military, police and church hierarchy) have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Yeah?
From: Dominican Republic
Roy you forgot the companies using uneducated, low paid work force.... who care if they can't read as long as they can sew or weld a shovel... better if they can't read then they won't understand the contract they put an X on...
Written by: RoyStone, 18 Nov 2011 11:59 AM
From: Australia
stillhere, the technological age is fully implemented in the Dominican Republic as far as consumption of consumer goods is concerned. However the industrial revolution still hasn't arrived as far as production is concerned. I was unaware unskilled jobs even had contracts. Verbal agreements, not worth the paper they're not written on!
I think illiteracy is not as widespread here as it appears. Many people can read but don't bother to. TV and idle chat is easier. Also it's hard to concentrate on the printed page with monotonous loud noise (mistakenly called music) blasting in one's ear.
From: United States
RonEvane launches out into a visceral screed against the pessimists, offering this bit f vitriol againts the pessimists
They are, for the most part, incorrigible pessimists who get their kicks by showcasing the illusionary knowledge on what's yet to happen. We, humans, given the right environment to grow mentally and otherwise, can accomplish anything reachable.
and just what do you consider to be the ¨right environment¨?. please explain what it looks like. what components make for the right environment? are they present, or absent, in the country? if they are present, but not being used, can money effect a change?. if they are not present, can they be occasioned by money? since you feel importuned to go ballistic against people who express opinions, then take the opportunity to set us straight, instead of acting like a child who has just fallen and skinned his knee. this debating thing is supposed to ventilate issues. open a window, please.
From: United States
Atabey informs the incredulous
One unfortunate development in Dominican history is that the educational opportunity bandwagon has traditionally been driven with leftist credentials. and this has given the notion of universal education a leftist tinge.
sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Atabey, but all egalitarian ideals are considered left wing. if there are proponents of a universal, equal opportunity for all education system, then they are leftists, by nature.
Written by: RoyStone, 18 Nov 2011 3:32 PM
From: Australia
Yes, Dready, education was a very high priority in the USSR during the Soviet (leftist) era. I have spent much time in the former Soviet states of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus and was impressed with the knowledge, (and good manners), of those educated during that time. They were the only country to match, and at times surpass the USA in the space race. Realization of this was a huge boost to the American science education system when Kennedy figured the USA was lagging behind, and increased science education funding dramatically.
More recently rightist Christian fundamentalism has reared its ugly head in the USA, to the determent of education in general, and particularly in biological science education and research. Who would have thought back when NASA was landing on the moon, half a century later most Americans would still believe in the Biblical Creation?
From: United States
Roy informs
More recently rightist Christian fundamentalism has reared its ugly head in the USA, to the determent of education in general, and particularly in biological science education and research.
it has reared its ugly head here, too. Gospel grinding is the new, big , growth industry here. just what we needed. another crutch for a destitute people. so, if we do not win the pale, or the number of the day, then Dios will take care of us, somehow.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Nov 2011 4:05 PM
From: United States, NYC
Historical Context matters El Dready.
I stated very clearly that it was the 1960s! And something rather newsworthy happened in 1959 in the Caribbean.
And to illustrate the non-sense of your notion, several Asian countries have implemented universal educational systems DESPITE being Rightist or Conservative regimes! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news old goat.
From: United States
Our government wants the population kept uneducated so they can keep stealing. All we need to do to see how bad our schooling is is visit the schools themselves. Kids spend so little time in school and have so few resources with that time to learn anything. It is the fault of the government for not providing good schooling for our children. If you cannot afford private schools good luck getting an education in the Dominican Republic.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Nov 2011 5:13 PM
From: United States, NYC
VeronicaDR,
Here's Dready on Dominicans:
"...[T]he parents do not value education, and cannot socialize their kids into valuing it themselves. at Jewish schools in New York, when there is a parent-teachers meeting, all the parents of the kids attend. they want to know exactly what is going on, and do not want hearsay...they want first hand knowledge. when their kids come home from school, the first thing they have to do is to sit and do their homework. our(sic) {Dominican} kids here stop at the sports field on the way from home, and hang out with the opposite sex all afternoon. it is cultural. some people value education, some do not. all the money in the world cannot fix that. you can lead the horse to the freshest, most nutritious, vitamin filled water. you just cannot make him drink it."
The historical context is completely missing in Dready's take. DR is NOT NYC. Schools, teachers, materials ARE PUBLICALLY FUNDED FOR ALL STUDENTS IN NYC. DR HAS NEVER HAD THAT!!
From: United States
advises Atabey
The historical context is completely missing in Dready's take. DR is NOT NYC. Schools, teachers, materials ARE PUBLICALLY FUNDED FOR ALL STUDENTS IN NYC. DR HAS NEVER HAD THAT!!
as usual, he is wrong. there are several privately funded schools in New York. you should get out more often. you claim to live there, but seem stuck in the cockfight auditorium. never heard of parochial schools? i love it when you use the large font to highlight what you are saying, then talk some crap. really shows up how ignorant you are.
Written by: RonEvane, 20 Nov 2011 8:39 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
The "right environment", Mr. dread, are a decent roof, food to eat every day, free and compulsory schools with capable teachers, longer schedule, suitable equipment, i.e., desks, manuals, textbooks, etc, and last, but not least, a supporting and encouraging family. (you know, just the way it was when you were growing up).
It doesn't take more than that to "grow" a generation of people with the acquired knowledge and capability to achieve or resolve almost any challenges before them.
But, of course, it takes money and effort from the govt to make it so...And that's where the complication starts and ends.
If this were not the case, sir, private schools and universities in DR would be churning out illiterates and we'd be another Jamaica.
From: United States
says RonEvane
If this were not the case, sir, private schools and universities in DR would be churning out illiterates and we'd be another Jamaica.
would be churning out illiterates? what do you consider yourself? as to your little quip about Jamaica...you would love to be. draw up a list for me of areas in which you perform better, and let us get to business. by the way,k UASD ranks 4300 in the world university ratings. that is the highest ranking of any university here. the University of the West Indies ranks 930. any questions?oh, i forgot. we have never ranked 130 out of 130 countries tested in educational achievement. always beaten at least one country. hmmmm...
Written by: Atabey, 20 Nov 2011 9:07 PM
From: United States, NYC
Right on Ron Evane!
As for Dready's mindless rantings: every child in NYC, including illegals, is allowed to enter and be seated in a PUBLICALLY funded school. And if placement is difficult or wanting, NYC and State will PAY FOR YOUR CHILD'S PRIVATE education tuition.
You can opt for Private schooling or Parochial institutions of learning. But that is up to YOU and the school. Get your facts correct, I know more than you do about the system.
We're still waiting for Dread to produce his evidence concerning Dominican UNWILLINGNESS to send their children to school and appreciate an educational opportunity.
Where's your evidence for Dominicans in DR not wanting,if given an opportunity, to drink from the nectar of knowledge?
You are a phoney, pseudo skeptic and pseudo critical thinker, Dready. This give and take has demonstrated much evidence for that view.
Go back and peddle your ideas in Jamaica. Oh, I see, that might have been WHY they rejected you before.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Nov 2011 9:14 PM
From: United States, NYC
You see that picture above where, at least three if not more students are working from the floor because NO SEATING is available? What does that demonstrate? I guess these students want to be educated! kinda not what your Theory of Dominican Rejection of Education would dictate!
Where is your evidence Sir Pseudo Skeptic of all things Dominican?
Written by: RoyStone, 20 Nov 2011 9:24 PM
From: Australia
RonEvane,
I think even those of the left would agree that it is not the government's responsibility to provide "a decent roof, food to eat every day," and certainly not to provide "a supporting and encouraging family." Yes these do impact on a child's ability to learn. So do their genes, and how may siblings they need to compete with for resources. Perhaps this should also be government's responsibility too? Of course to meet such a responsibility they will need to practice eugenics and carry out compulsory sterilization, as they see fit. That's okay with you?
I think you miss Dready's bleedingly-obvious point that no-matter what educational facilities the government provides, the kids won't get a good education if they and their parents have the wrong attitude, and unfortunately that's what Dominicans have. The other side of that coin is some kids, despite having limited resources, excel academically, as a result of their and their family's attitude. I'm sure you know some example
Written by: RoyStone, 20 Nov 2011 9:39 PM
From: Australia
VeronicaDR,
I'm not so sure if the government is deliberately keeping the masses uneducated. They are just not allocating sufficient funds as they have other priorities. So does the electorate.
The church is another story. Keeping the masses uneducated is policy. It's written in their big book their believers carry around but never read (except for a few passages selected for them but their priest, explaining why Jesus needs them to put money in the collection plate, and bring their friends along to the church fete, or should that be spelled fate?).
Written by: RoyStone, 20 Nov 2011 9:45 PM
From: Australia
blackopal,
So your brother's on drugs. What's your excuse?
Written by: RoyStone, 20 Nov 2011 9:51 PM
From: Australia
Atabey,
Regarding the protests about education in the 1960s, I doubt if many of the current generation of parents with school-age children were even born then, let alone took part. From what I am told, the Dominicans of today are very different from earlier times.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Nov 2011 10:04 PM
From: United States, NYC
RoyStone,
Let me be perfectly clear on this matter: You and Dread are correct that "parental involvement and motivation" are critical ingredients in constructing a child's educational achievement horizon. Teachers play another crucial role, too. But that is NOT Dready's Generalized Theory of Why Dominicans are in this morass of an issue. He has made numerous statements concerning Dominicans NOT WANTING to be educated! That if offered the nectar of enlightenment, Dominicans would shy away and instead turn up the volume on some machine or dabble away on some gossip channel. Dready, has looked into his mysterious 8-Ball and arrived at this unsupported theory. I merely asked him to produce evidence in the Dominican Republic for his outrageous notion. He can't. And it's easy to see why he can't produce the goods: Because when Dominicans are provided a clean school, with competent staff and materials, children and their parents flock to enter these institutions.
Written by: RonEvane, 20 Nov 2011 10:12 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Mr. Roy. I'm not saying it's the govt's responsibility to directly provide a roof, food to eat, etc., but, in a way it is! If our govt did not just exist in the present, It would have realized long ago that the ONLY way to prosperity, and thereby provide for its citizens, is to educate its' people.
You're way off in suggesting eugenics plays a role or that compulsory sterilization would solve anything! ..You and Dreary keep on hammering on the same invalid point that the status quo can not be irrefutably changed because we're hopeless dummies with no wish to change. "that's the way it's been for ages", say you. The only constant is change, it is said. There's always a cause and effect. Whatever is done today will have a significant consequence tomorrow. Maybe good or bad. It all depends on what you saw. Education in our country has little to do with attitude and a lot with what is planted today. A little money and nurturing can go a long way!
Written by: Atabey, 20 Nov 2011 10:17 PM
From: United States, NYC
All I want to see is a sensible say 6% or so of the annual PIB-that's GNP-dedicated towards correcting the HIGHLY deprived educational sector and that this level BE SUSTAINED for 20 years. Let's see if Dready's contention is correct. For it should make no discernible effect given his Generalized Theory on Dominicans. But if for some mysterious reason, after these 20 years have passed and Dominicans are noticeably better educated than before, if the levels of extreme functional illiteracy has dropped significantly, then it would be interesting to see what hogwash El Dready comes up with to explain his theory's demise.
Individuals act in their self-interest. If education is available and compulsory up until say 16 years of year, most people will avail themselves of the opportunity. If they have to pay for it out of pocket individually, socioeconomic status will sway-not determine- their choices.
An interesting article on Spain.
Spanish boom town that went bust
Written by: Atabey, 20 Nov 2011 10:20 PM
From: United States, NYC
They can't even write a sentence properly."
Vicente Ruiz, owner of the El Buyí bar, will vote for Rajoy. "When Caritas is the biggest employer in town, things are really bad," he says. "It is shameful to have to ask for charity. What we need is a Mrs Thatcher."
Public money is being spent on silly projects, clients in his bar agree. "I've had 60-year-old women coming to bricklaying courses," says one, Nicolás. "It is ridiculous, but they each get their own overalls and hammer."
Written by: Atabey, 20 Nov 2011 10:20 PM
From: United States, NYC
Benalup used to be thriving but now has the worst levels of unemployment in a country on brink of economic collapse
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2....-benalup-unemployment-euro-crisis"By 2004, more than 80% of Benalup's labour force worked in construction, building homes or holiday apartments along the nearby Mediterranean coast.
"Kids left school at 16 because they could earn €3,000 a month working a three-and-a-half-day week," says Moguel. "I had university-trained engineers working in my company who were earning less than that."
As money poured into people's pockets, the number of banks in town doubled. La Caixa, a newly arrived savings bank, started a local lending war – its manager winning awards. "Kids were buying houses and cars with the loans. And those who already had a house bought another one," says Moguel.
Peña delivers the same diagnosis of Benalup's ills as his Socialist opponents. "Too many people dropped out of school to become bricklayers.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Nov 2011 10:26 PM
From: United States, NYC
The youth in Spain are paying for having gone for the sweet honey of the Spring without thinking what would bring them sustenance in the hard winter of need. Now they will be forced to do as their grandparents and go work in Germany.
Moral of the story: A good education can feed you in all seasons.
Countries that deny or foolishly waste their economic health to schemes such as the one above suffer the consequences dearly.
Written by: RonEvane, 20 Nov 2011 10:37 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Mr. Dread, you keep on ranting about rankings etc. I couldn't care less about how high or low our universities are in the the eyes of the world as long as we are provided with the best education possible. Yes, we don't have a Harvard or a Princeton, but neither does your demotivated, crime- ridden, Ganja- smoking, little island.
Do I need to remind you that we are the proud title holder of the biggest economy in Central America and the Caribbean? What does that mean to you? Nothing? Of course, you'll dismiss it as being inconsequential and insignificant!
We're slowly inching our way to prosperity while Jamaica languishes in despair with little hope of economically, getting anywhere near where we are today.
From: Dominican Republic
We're slowly inching our way to prosperity......... Ron? for who is this prosperity??
In your above rant and I will call it that .. contradicting yourself by calling out dread for making comparisons between one thing and another, then you go on to do the exact thing yourself.... please if your going to complain about something then don't do it yourself.......
Vicente Ruiz, owner of the El Buyí bar, will vote for Rajoy. "When Caritas is the biggest employer in town, things are really bad," he says. "It is shameful to have to ask for charity. What we need is a Mrs Thatcher."
I'm sorry but is this person insane????? Mrs Thatcher????
From: United States
RonEvane, if you had a brain, and any knowledge, i would debate you. however, since you are too immature to discuss matters in a civil manner, you are dismissed. i do not suffer fools and chopos gladly.
From: United States
reminds the graduate from the Atabey Academy of the Absurd
Do I need to remind you that we are the proud title holder of the biggest economy in Central America and the Caribbean? What does that mean to you? Nothing? Of course, you'll dismiss it as being inconsequential and insignificant!
yes, you do have the biggest economy in the region, in terms of actual GDP. so, that means what? tell me how it affects the following
1...42 % of population below the poverty line
2 the education system, in which you routinely come in at last place in international education testings
3..one of the worst electricity systems in the world
4...number 2 in the world in government miamanagement of the economy
4..number 4 in the world in exportation of prostitutes..
5..tied with Colombia for last place in ethnic group per capita salaries in the USA..
i will stop there. however, as you see, it´s not what you have, it´s how you use what you have. understand?
Written by: RoyStone, 21 Nov 2011 12:20 PM
From: Australia
Dread you forgot to mention,
One of the highest rates of:
Underage pregnancy
Population explosion
Murder
Road deaths
Let's see what happens to the GDP when the tourism industry collapses, Dominican in USA decide they are Americans and stop sending money, and an overdue big earthquake or hurricane strikes.
From: United States
are you still there, Ron? you might also wish to address the question from stillhere, and tell us for whom this ¨prosperity¨is coming, and give us an approximation on the estimated time of arrival
From: United States
RonEvane states
Yes, we don't have a Harvard or a Princeton, but neither does your demotivated, crime- ridden, Ganja- smoking, little island
two observations. firstly, although we might not have a Harvard or Princeton, we have a university than ranks number 930 in the world. that is closer to Harvard than UASD, which ranks 4300. much closer. ask one of your numerate friends to explain to you the difference between 930 and 4300. secondly, a lot of weed is smoked in Jamaica. far too much. however, you better consider the crack cocaine epidemic that is gripping your own country, before you accuse others of drug use. on the subject of motivation...i would not even bother to answer you. i would give you a list of accomplishments and achievements that have originated in an unmotivated country, but your brain will be fried.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 2:33 PM
From: United States, NYC
Where is Josean? I would've thought this Thread rather interesting to him. Any opinion Dready?
And Dready, do you REALLY WANT TO GET INTO A DR VERSUS JAMAICA COMPARISON?
The beat down I gave you last time should have been good for at least a years worth of solitude on your part. Why do you want to rehash settled matters?
For those who aren't aware of it, Dready got a beat down on the Forum Section when he tried to take me on this Jamaica versus DR debate. Basically, Jamaica coughed up a substantial lead over DR in the last 50 years or basically since she gained independence from Great Britain.
At one point, Jamaica was far richer and more stable than DR. Her economy was sounder and had good macro-economic foundations. and then it all started to change and the DR began to close the gap on Jamaica. By now, Jamaica is the one that's a basket case-essentially bankrupt and in possession of one of the worst macro-economic regimes in the Caribbean.
Go to
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 2:34 PM
From: United States, NYC
Wealth & Health of Nations
http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$....smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=;example=75And check out the Trends between DR and Jamaica. You will see how Jamaica's huge lead has all but evaporated over the last 40 years.
In 1973 Jamaica had a GDP per person of $7, 960! adjusted for Inflation (PPP), while DR's was $2,390!
DR (2006) ===$5,644
Jamaica (2006)==$ 7, 291
Essentially, Jamaica has been STATIC and Negative losing $670 GNP per person over that span of time, since 1966. The DR has doubled her GNP per person in the same period.
From: Dominican Republic
Blar blar blar blar... yes they have both f%$%^d it up in the past few years... what country in this region has got it right?
The narco problem in the region has exploited small countries and corrupted governments officials, seem to be one of the main problem in the past few decades, give poor people the chose between an education/good job and fast money, fast money will win every time... and it seem to be even gov officials have chosen the fast money, be it the hand in the piggy bank of the country, turn a blind eye to bags falling from the sky, or extra money to get anything done. No country can say everything is great at home... things can always be better, so again I ask.... what can be done... who is taking the lead... who is setting a good example?
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 4:20 PM
From: United States, NYC
Country: Dominican Republic
[8.3%]---1999
[8%]------2000
[1.5%]---2001
[4.2%]---2002
[-0.7%]-[2003
[1.7%] --2004
[9.3]------2005
[10.7] --- 2006
[8.5]-----2007
[5.3] ----2008
[3.5]--- 2009
[7.8]---- 2010
Country:Jamaica
-0.5-----1999
0.2--2000
1.1--2001
0.4 --2002
1.9--2003
1.9 --2004
1.8--2005
2.3--2006
1.2--2007
-0.6--2008
-2.8--2009
-1.1 --2010
Definition of GDP - per capita (PPP): This entry shows GDP on a purchasing power parity basis divided by population as of 1 July for the same year.
Country: Dominican Republic
1999---5,400
2000---5,700
2001---5,800
2002-- 6,100
2003---6,000
2004---6,300
2005---7,500
2006---8,400
2007---6,600
2008---8,200
2009---8,300
2010---8,900
Country: Jamaica
1999--3,350
2000--3,700
2001--3,700
2002--3,900
2003--3,900
2004--4,100
2005--4,500
2006--4,600
2007--7,400
2008--7,500
2009--8,400
2010--8,300
Dready, sorry to inform you but DR
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 4:21 PM
From: United States, NYC
From: Dominican Republic
blar blar blar blar blar...... talk about the topic.... dumb ass......
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 5:00 PM
From: United States, NYC
Go to the forum, we have a thread open. Dejad de estar comiendo tanta mierd* Caballero!
Written by: RonEvane, 21 Nov 2011 8:11 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Atabey.
Come to think of it, maybe it's best not to argue further with these folks.
I don't know about you ,but, judging by the way they express themselves and solid empirical proof they present on all things Dominican, it's quite obvious to me that they must have earned their PhD in "Dominican studies", et, al. and we haven't a chance in hell to argue.. We simply cannot stand up to these geniuses when it comes to education and experience.
I'd say, it's best to let them debate themselves and just watch from the sidelines and learn stuff we may not know much about. Also, it'll be interesting to see how they fabricate their strategy of insulting and belittling others when one can't come up with a good rebuttal.
I think this may be a golden opportunity to further enhance our "little minds" by learning from the pros, when to , and when not to, present irrelevant gibberish, with no real meaning. If we're ever to show impressive arguments, we need to strategize the way they famously do
From: United States
says Atabey
Essentially, Jamaica has been STATIC and Negative losing $670 GNP per person over that span of time, since 1966. The DR has doubled her GNP per person in the same period.
catching up does not mean you have caught up. i notice that the only thing that catches your attention is the GDP figures, but, typical of you, you ignore the matrices. what do you ignore the categories i mention? not to your liking?
From: United States
says the professor
Essentially, Jamaica has been STATIC and Negative losing $670 GNP
GDP, Atabey, GDP. not GNP. if you are going to argue a point, at least understand what you are talking about.
From: United States
furthermore, Atabey, GDP means less than nothing as a measure of the strength of a country´s economy. the DR has a higher GDP per capita than China. so, by your reckoning, it is a first world superpower. i would not waste precious time explaining the fallacies of using GDP to you, because you have so little economic insight, it would b a waste of my time. how can i talk to someone who does not know the simple difference between GDP and GNP?
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 9:11 PM
From: United States, NYC
From: United States
pleads Atabey
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 9:11 PM
From: United States
I'm listening to Jimi so please don't disturb the moment.
somebody is looking for an mp3 .
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 9:58 PM
From: United States, NYC
Since you've disturbed my peace over on the Forum, I will give you your nightly beating so you can sleep tight tonight. Here goes:
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS in Jamaica
Country 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
9,900 9,900 20,000 22,000 22,000 22,000 22,000 22,000 27,000 27,000 32,000
In 2001 Jamaica had 9,900 and by 2011 the population had grown to 32,000!
Inflation rate (consumer prices) (%) in Jamaica
Country 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
------ 9.4-- 8.8--- 6.9 7---- 10.3 ---12.4---15.3----- 5.8-- 9.5-- 22--- 9.6-- 13
Investment (gross fixed) (%) in Jamaica
Country 2004----2005-----2006-----2007------2008-----2009----2010
--------------32------ 32.4------30.8------34.2------26.5------24.6------25.1
Down trending Dready on the last two, but up trending on the first!
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 10:16 PM
From: United States, NYC
Definition of Inflation rate (consumer prices): This entry furnishes the annual percent change in consumer prices compared with the previous year's consumer prices.
Definition of Investment (gross fixed): This entry records total business spending on fixed assets, such as factories, machinery, equipment, dwellings, and inventories of raw materials, which provide the basis for future production. It is measured gross of the depreciation of the assets, i.e., it includes investment that merely replaces worn-out or scrapped capital.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=71&c=jm&l=enFrom: United States
yes, the aids population had grown. that is how contageous diseases usuall operate, unless they are quarantined. however, the medical services are dealing with the problem, unlike this
For example, less than 40% of those in need of antiretroviral therapy were
receiving it in the Dominican Republic and Haiti in 2006 (37% and 39%, respectively).
yes, Atabey. your handling of the epidemic is worse than Haiti´s. i guess you are going to blame Haiti for that, too.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 10:27 PM
From: United States, NYC
Dominican Republic
Population below poverty line (%)
Country 1999---- 2002---- 2003---- 2004---- 2005---- 2006---- 2007
------------ 25-------- 25----- 25-------- 42.2-------25------- 25-------- 25
Dominican Republic Inflation rate (consumer prices) (%)
YR---(%)
1999=5.1
2000=7.9
2001=5
2002=5.3
2003=27.5
2004=55
2005=4.2
2006=8.2
2007=6.1
2008=10.6
2009=1.4
2010=6.3
Definition of Inflation rate (consumer prices): This entry furnishes the annual percent change in consumer prices compared with the previous year's consumer prices.
Definition of Population below poverty line: National estimates of the percentage of the population falling below the poverty line are based on surveys of sub-groups, with the results weighted by the number of people in each group. Definitions of poverty vary considerably among nations. For example, rich nations generally employ more generous standards of poverty than poor nations.
From: United States
says Atabey
Country 2004----2005-----2006-----2007------2008-----2009----2010
--------------32------ 32.4------30.8------34.2------26.5------24.6------25.1
Down trending Dready on the last two, but up trending on the first!
Atabey, when you have not been to school, and have no idea of how to interpret statistics, you should stay away from making yourself look even dumber than you are. in both sets of data which you claim are trending down, there is no trend. the figures oscillate between a lower and a higher figure. if you can read figures, 2008 is higher than 2009, and 2010 is higher tha 2009. that is called fluctuation, and has no trend. the same goes for the figures on inflation. some years are very high, followed by lows, followed by highs. then again, how would i expect you to understand this? you are the same guy who looked at a statistical model and called it calculus.
From: United States
hey, Atabey, i believe someone is talking about you
Dominican students “learn the least in the region”
From: United States
Atabey offers
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 10:27 PM
From: United States
Dominican Republic
Population below poverty line (%)
Country 1999---- 2002---- 2003---- 2004---- 2005---- 2006---- 2007
------------ 25-------- 25----- 25-------- 42.2-------25------- 25-------- 25
as usual, the intellectually decrepit wonder chooses his data from a single source, the one which suits him. there are other surveys which contradict these numbers you published. then again, intellectual and academic rectitude are not a part of your game. you just want to WIN. i understand. you are such an example of uninterrupted insignificance, anything is a triumph for you.
From: United States
Atabey, if you had half a brain, you would realize that the figures you supplied are a crock of crap, fabricated by some DR statistical office, in order to make the government of Hipolito Mejia look bad. do you really believe that the number of people below the poverty line could go from 25% to 42% in the space of one year? better yet, do you believe that it could return to 25% in one year? can you explain the mechanism by which a government could raise the income of 17% of the population in one year? are you awake? do you understand even a little bit about this matter?
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 10:51 PM
From: United States, NYC
Jamaica
Current Account Balance (US$)
2004------ (-)830,700,000
2005----- (-)974,000,000
2006-----970,000,000
2007-----1,830,000,000
2008---- 2,893,000,000
2009----876,000,000-
2010---- (-)1,382,000,000
Definition of Current Account Balance: This entry records a country's net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings from rents, interest, profits, and dividends, and net transfer payments (such as pension funds and worker remittances) to and from the rest of the world during the period specified. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 10:55 PM
From: United States, NYC
Jamaica
Country Exports (Billion $)
YR ----EXPORTS
1999=1.4
2000=1.7
2002=1.6
2003=1.4
2004=1.36
2005=1.68
2006=1.61
2007=2.09
2008=2.6
2009=1,26
2010=1.49
Definition of Exports: This entry provides the total US dollar amount of merchandise exports on an f.o.b. (free on board) basis. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.
Written by: RonEvane, 21 Nov 2011 10:59 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Atabey, please read my last entry.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 11:00 PM
From: United States, NYC
Country: Jamaica
2000= 3.8
2001 = 4.7
2002 = 5.2
2003= 5.3
2004 = 4.96
2005= 5.96
2006 = 7.16
2007 = 7.38
2008 = 9.66
2009 = 10.2
2010 = 10.56
2011 = 12.66
Definition of Debt - external: This entry gives the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=94&c=jm&l=enWritten by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 11:02 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: RonEvane, 21 Nov 2011 10:59 PM
From: United States, Githersburg, Maryland
Atabey, please read my last entry.
I know hermano, but some people don't know how wrong this Dready is and so when the evidence is stated, he has no where to hide. A few more and the case will be closed on El Dready. He can then retire to bed, well beaten for the night.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 11:05 PM
From: United States, NYC
JamaicaCountry
2004---- 2005----- 2006----- 2007---- 2008---- 2009---- 2010
146.1---- 128.7---- 133.3---- 126.5----- 109.6---- 124.4---- 123.2
Definition of Public debt: This entry records the cumulative total of all government borrowings less repayments that are denominated in a country's home currency. Public debt should not be confused with external debt, which reflects the foreign currency liabilities of both the private and public sector and must be financed out of foreign exchange earnings.
"From leading the world's economy in sugar production to bankrupt socioeconomic turmoil"
http://jamaica-guide.info/past.and.present/economy/From: Dominican Republic
Blar blart blar blar blar blar and more crap about something that has nothing to do with the topic....... All the number in the world won't fix the education problem... and the on going crap about who has this and who can show more number that mean nothing, copy paste from some page with on insight.... please give us all a brake... wooooww you can read and know ctrl c, ctrl p......... Yes you have a problem with Jamaica... yes they have problems too.... but how in hell is this any help to the topic at hand in this country??????
Population below poverty line (%)
Country 1999---- 2002---- 2003---- 2004---- 2005---- 2006---- 2007
------------ 25-------- 25----- 25-------- 42.2-------25------- 25-------- 25
PLEASE if you believe this pile of crap then you need you head looked at........even if any where near right these number are nothing to be proud of...
From: United States
stillhere, Atabey is a guy who went to bed one night and dreamed that he was an academic. he quotes statistics, which he does not understand, in an attempt to prove to people equally ignorant as himself, that he is smart. this is a guy who does not know the difference between GDP, and GNP. he looks at statistical modelling, and thinks it is calculus. he does not even know what a basic scatter chart is. he, however, thinks that he knows something. i have asked him to explain how a demographic can have a 17% swing in one year, and a reverse 17% swing the following year. if i was a sporting man, i would put some coin on a bet that he will just ignore the question, and move on to more blar, blar, blar. you see, it impresses his apostles of ignorance, like RoneEvane, who travel through this life in a cloud of unknowing.. Atabey does not know if he is on foot, or horseback. he just thinks that he is a smart guy. NOT!
From: United States
asks Atabey
And Dready, do you REALLY WANT TO GET INTO A DR VERSUS JAMAICA COMPARISON?
yes. let us compare what you have done with all this money. tell me about what you have done with EDUCATION, relative to Jamaica. tell me how it has done for your electricity service. tell me what it has done for poverty. tell me what it has done for your justice system. tell me what it has done foor telecommunications. tell me what it has done for potable water. tell me about disease control. tell me how it has reduced teen pregnancy and unwanted births. tell me how it has reduced femicide. tell me how it has helped Dominican immigrants into the USA to enter at high levels of employment. tell me how it has changed the fact that the DR has the third most polluted area on earth. tell me why you are still fighting with diseases like elephantiasis, which Jamaica eradicated years ago. do you want me to provide a list of internationally recognizable accomplishments, so we can compare?
Written by: Atabey, 22 Nov 2011 1:23 PM
From: United States, NYC
Stillhere,
Have you any idea where Josean is?
I mean, I've been making his case against Dready the Evil who would have the poor sectors of the Dominican population denied educational opportunities BECAUSE ACCORDING TO HIS CRYSTAL 8-BALL, THEY AREN'T WORTHY; AND ARE like Horses that if taken to "vitamin rich waters would not drink."
Where is Josean, the defender of the poor downtrodden class of Dominicans long suffering the painful neglect of the government?
From: United States
Atabey requests
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 9:11 PM
From: United States
I'm listening to Jimi so please don't disturb the moment
hey Atabey, ins´t America great? look at all these things you have been exposed to since moving there. flush toilets. electric lights. table cutlery. the mailman. now, Jimi Hendrix. i am happy for you. enjoy him, in good health. with the passage of time, you will also encounter names like the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, and many others , too numerous to mention. why, you might get lucky enough to hear it played on a high end stereo system. that will intensify the enjoyment factor for you. whatever you do, please do not come to the forum and set yourself up as an authority on music., like you have done for economics, politics, world trade and finance, and sociology. we have enough to bear, as it stands.
Written by: Atabey, 22 Nov 2011 1:49 PM
From: United States, NYC
Dready,
Have you any idea where Josean is? I mean he must be rolling given your defense of the "powers that Be"?
The downtrodden Dominicans, according to the Evil Dready are unworthy of the nectar of enlightenment and all that bull you've been expressing!
Where is Josean the defender of the Dominican Downtrodden?
From: United States
do you have a fixation with Josean? calling hime out just reinforces the point i have been making that you are mentally disturbed. the guy has ignored you for over a year, but you are still taunting him, like a little schoolboy, looking for a fight. you need serious psychiatric adjustment. get some help. besides, nobody ever said the Dominicans are not worthy of education. that is just one more fabrication and falsehood, emanating from your twisted mind, or what passes for one.
Written by: RonEvane, 22 Nov 2011 9:24 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Are you alright, Dread? You sound so angry all the time. Is this your normal temperament? or did something happen in the past? Your responses are so hurtful, hateful, irritable and so emotional!
Geez Louise!.. But you know, come to think of it, You must be suffering from the same condition I used to have! People would point this out to me and I was always in denial. "I'm not crazy"!, I used to claim. But then, I got help from my analyst. She prescribed a series of treatments and drugs which did me a world of good!
There's no need to be ashamed of mental illness, this is more common than previously thought. I highly recommend seeking professional help; the results are nothing short of miraculous!
I mean, look at me me now! Thank you Jesus!!
P.s. Try not to be in denial. Sooner or later, we all have to face up to our shortcomings, the sooner,the better. Take good care, my friend.
Written by: RoyStone, 22 Nov 2011 10:09 PM
From: Australia
Hey Dready,
So Atebey likes Jimi Hendrix.
So do I. I've just learned to play the solos in "All Along The Watchtower" (okay, originally written by Bod Dylan, but it's Hendrix's solos that make it interesting. Dylan now does a cover of Hendrix's cover of his song) and it wasn't easy, although TAB and MIDI files help.
Does that make me a Neanderthal?
Written by: RoyStone, 22 Nov 2011 10:12 PM
From: Australia
DR Government education expenditure is 2.2% of GDP, not of their budget, which would of course be much higher. I wonder what percentage of the average Dominican family's budget is spent on education - zero?
The average family in this village spend nothing on rent (they live in a house their grand-father built on inherited squatted land), no municipal rates, no taxes, free hospital care, free water, free rubbish collection, subsidized gas and very cheap subsidized electricity (which is intermittent but enough to run TVs, fridge, hair-dryers, washing-machine & dryer).
Education is totally free, except the cost of photocopies of exam results, 5 pesos each - total per year less than one bottle of beer. The school provides all books and even uniforms and breakfast or lunch free! Oh, so the meal is not so good?
If the free government education is insufficient (and it is) then why can't the parents spend a little to supplement it rather than on a new iPhone, satelliteTV or Jeepeta?
Written by: RonEvane, 22 Nov 2011 11:44 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
I, for one, don't know. But since you live there, and are immersed in this complex bewilderment, maybe you can tell us the answer, or is this a rhetorical question?
Written by: RoyStone, 22 Nov 2011 11:57 PM
From: Australia
The answer obviously is, they can but choose not to. Why? God only knows! And since God doesn't exist, then I guess no one knows! However while the majority don't really give a f**k about their kid's education, then why should the government? (rhetorical this time)
Written by: RonEvane, 24 Nov 2011 4:49 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Surely, there has to be an answer. There's ALWAYS one. Is it cultural? political? racial?; What?
This is the one question we've been debating here for days without a solid answer.
We have our opinions but nothing that makes much sense. Admittedly, my rantings proposing education as one and only resolution to this, hasn't garnered much favor, but neither has the theory about this being a cultural phenomenon. I don't buy it.
Regardless, I would humbly request we put this to a vote. (seriously!). It may put an end to this, (before DT erases it), and give us an insight as to what is what.
From: United States
says RonEvane
Are you alright, Dread? You sound so angry all the time. Is this your normal temperament? or did something happen in the past? Your responses are so hurtful, hateful, irritable and so emotional!
Geez Louise!.. But you know, come to think of it, You must be suffering from the same condition I used to have!
my only condition is that i do not suffer fools gladly. do you understand my motivations now?
Written by: Atabey, 24 Nov 2011 12:57 PM
From: United States, NYC
Well RonEvane, look on the bright side: we now have Josean who is posting and will surely make his point regarding Dready's dreadful theory of lower class Dominicans, and Dominicans in general, NOT WANTING TO DRINK THE Nectar of Enlightenment!
!Que maltito chivo viejo! The Dominican pauperimos deserve the lack of educational opportunities because they don't -according to the Evil Dready-stage massive demonstrations and use violence to demand greater services!
What a defender of the poor this pseudo-socialist blah blah Jamaican!
anyway Josean will shortly be making his statement regarding El Evil's theory. Can't wait.
From: United States
ritten by: Atabey, 24 Nov 2011 12:57 PM
From: United States
Well RonEvane, look on the bright side: we now have Josean who is posting and will surely make his point regarding Dready's dreadful theory of lower class Dominicans, and Dominicans in general, NOT WANTING TO DRINK THE Nectar of Enlightenment!
well, i cannot speak for everyone, but i can surely say that you are one low class Dominican who did not drink the nectar of enlightenment.
Written by: Atabey, 24 Nov 2011 1:39 PM
From: United States, NYC
Josean, we all await your remarks regarding El dready's theory.
Written by: RoyStone, 24 Nov 2011 1:48 PM
From: Australia
Atabey,
Excuse me, but I'm feeling neglected by you.
You attack Dready for saying Dominicans are not interested in education, regardless of whether the government spend enough on it or not.
I am saying the same thing - how about some flack for me!
Written by: Atabey, 24 Nov 2011 1:56 PM
From: United States, NYC
While Dready and Josean Triangulate their response, let me wish them, and everyone else, a very peaceful, joyful and healthy Thanksgiving.
See you soon......
From: United States
RoyStone, there is a simple reason why not only Atabey, but other Dominicans attack me.it is because of island insecurity. Jamaica has traditionally been the island that gets the headlines, and little Atabey and his buddies really get disturbed when i say anything. i remember stating that the teachers who were guilty of a beheading, some time back, were savages. not Dominica savages. human savages. Atabey went ballistic, saying that he would have given me a pass for saying that if i were Norwegian. actually, when the matter had died down, he stealthily went back into the thread, and changed the word to Swede, in order to disrupt the continuity of the discussion.
From: United States
i see where you are trying to bait Josean into a fight, but he wants no part of you. his family taught him not to get into the mud with a pig.
From: Dominican Republic
HA what about me ..I think your a turd as well Atabey . I want to be belittled TOO..
HA keep you thanks giving and place it where the sun don't shine... this is a DR site not US but you must of been there a while and had forgotten that the rest of the world don't give a S%$t about the day the American Indians saved the stupid settlers and dumb ass pilgrims from staving...
Written by: RoyStone, 24 Nov 2011 6:12 PM
From: Australia
I think we've all been missing the point:
There are more than enough schools and teachers for a country this size.
The problem is too many kids!
Dominicans that can barely feed, clothe and house themselves think is a right, even a Catholic duty, to go on having kids they can't afford, and expect the taxpayer to educate, feed and clothe them.
Written by: Atabey, 25 Nov 2011 8:16 PM
From: United States, NYC
'We're not that poor' - PIOJ schools IMF on poverty
The IMF has suggested that Jamaica has the fourth-highest poverty rate at 43.1 per cent when compared with 23 regional neighbours, according to the latest Regional Economic Outlook report Western Hemisphere: Shifting Winds, New Policy Challenges." [Check page 71 of the IMF report]
Dready 43.1%!!!!!!!
For the record the Poverty measurement in Dominican Republic came in at 16.4!
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/reo/2011/whd/eng/pdf/wreo1011.pdfSEDLAC is the source of information. Poverty = share of pop earning less than 2.50 dollars per day.
Go change your diapers Dready.
That is kinda real bad, Man.
Otra pela al vievo chivo!
Stillhere keep on serving your daily portion of jerky to the BAtty Man. :) Vende Patria y estúpido pendejo.
Anyone that wants to see where Jamaica and the Dominican Republic rank should just take a look at page 71 of the IMF report.
Written by: RonEvane, 25 Nov 2011 10:45 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"If the free government education is insufficient (and it is) then why can't the parents spend a little to supplement it rather than on a new iPhone, satelliteTV or Jeepeta?"
Why, Mr. Roy?... Isn't it obvious? Don't you think the poor education they had, to begin with, has something to do in that decision? I'm guessing half (parents), don't appreciate the value of schooling. The other half does, but can't afford private school. This is why I rant about education, but y'all wanna bunch 'em all in the same potato sack! You can't say we'd ALL rather buy a TV and forgo our children's welfare.
Mr. Roy, apparently, you're residing in a ghetto neighborhood to be getting this kind of feed-back all the time. I'm guessing, you're really only seeing half of what goes on in DR, as obviously, most posters here do. Our creator gave us stereo-vision, not just one eye. Use them both!
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 10:43 AM
From: Australia
Ron, you are correct that I do not mix with the Dominican aristocracy. It's not because I'm an inverted snob, I'm still waiting for an invitation.
Regardless I have traveled extensively and I do not think my neighborhood is very different from most of this country.
I do not agree with the idea that parents need to be educated to appreciate the need to educate their children. I have seen many uneducated migrant families in Australia that are very poor. Yet they work hard, not for the material status-symbols that poor Dominicans covert so much, but to enable them to give their children the education that they could not have.
Yes, you may have stereo vision, but your blind-faith in your imaginary creator, requires you to not use it. As an Atheist, I do not suffer from the same impediment.
From: Dominican Republic
Atabey... again and again you have to keep making comparisons between Jamaica and the DR... why? It has nothing to do with the education problem here... just shut up if you can't say anything without ctrl C, ctrl P or make a through of your own...
Ron.. yes to say "all " Dominican don't care about the education of their kids is not right... the ones that do seem to of had some better eduction than most and can see a better life for their child if given the chance through a good education.. It seem to me that to "some" the future and the welfare of the country (the children) is not as important as a new TV or Jeepeta. That the small amount of money their kids bring back from cleaning shoes or windscreens is a lot to them and can mean the difference between no food and something on the table.. So some parents will give up everything to get their child an eduction and sacrifice the here and now but not as many as there should be by the looks of this country...
From: United States
stillhere assesses the worth of Atabey
HA what about me ..I think your a turd as well Atabey
well, i beg to differ. that is an insult to turds. they serve a useful purpose in life.
Written by: Atabey, 26 Nov 2011 11:55 AM
From: United States, NYC
Stillhere,
I'm not sure how long you've been on DT, but The Dready and I have been trading comparisons for over a year now. It strated when I posted an article about Colombia being interested in DR's tourism model. The Dready went nuts! and stated that DR's model was a copy of his Jamaica. Go and see the posts, if you have doubts. Dready is full of love-hate regarding DR. He likes the long legs, ?, and the added surplus value his command of English affords him when in DR, but at the same time has a hard time accepting that this Spanish speaking nation has actually superseded his own! Que horrible!
As for the be-heading of women. I merely pointed out that in his own nation, just about a week prior to the horrible event in DR, several women had been be-headed! And so I questioned why Dready would carry on about DR when in his own native land things were even worse!
I would have expected a person of his age and "maturity" to give us a balanced take on matters.
From: United States
superseded? is that a word? in what respect, Atabey? you give the usual idiocy of GDP, which any intelligent economist will tell you is not an indicator of the health of an economy. i have asked you to translate the size of the economy into PERFORMANCE, and you have always declined. i recently outlined the following categories, which are REAL issue, and you ignored them, just as you do when you do not like the question
EDUCATION
HEALTH CARE
INFANT MORTALITY
UNEMPLOYMENT
NUMBER OF PEOPLE LIVING BELOW THE POVERTY LINE
INCOME DISTRIBUTION
DISEASE ERADICATION
TOXIC POLLUTION
those are some of the things which indicate how a country is doing. not some nebulous figure, which, in the case of Atabey, he does not understand. he does not even know the difference between GDP and GNP.
From: United States
Atabey´s rush to compare Jamaica with the DR has its genesis in the reality that although it is less that one quarter the size of the DR, and has less than a third of the population, it is the island in the Caribbean, along with Cuba, which has gotten all the press for its achievements. it is all about adolescent , inter-risland insecurity and jealousy. it probably boils his blood when our athletes clean up at the olympics, and his do not get a mention. sorry, Atabey. that´s just the way it is. we have Bob Marley, you do not.
Written by: RonEvane, 26 Nov 2011 1:05 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Roy says: "Yes, you may have stereo vision, but your blind-faith in your imaginary creator, requires you to not use it. As an Atheist, I do not suffer from the same impediment"
Roy, I'm an atheist as well. My comment is simply an allegory on common belief. Not to be taken at face value.
What I meant was that, sometimes, because of circumstances and/or prejudices, we see things in tunnel vision. Mostly always, things are not as they seem to be. This world isn't black or white, the spectrum is rich in contrast, there to show us what things are really like.
At times, we see what we are immediately exposed to, without bothering to look beyond the fence. We must not judge before we look on the other side.
Yes, agree with you that many are myopic. Even so, these qualities do not preclude us from missing out on the realities of life. One needs not be an "aristocrat" to be in a different school of thought. Half of us, do not conform to this forum's running consensus. We ain't so bad
Written by: RonEvane, 26 Nov 2011 1:17 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"we have Bob Marley, you do not."
Oh yeah? well, we have ......er....., Who the hell do we have?
From: United States
RonEvane, despite our past differences, i admire some of your viewpoints, and your candor. your last remark shows just how silly the pissing contest between myself and Atabey has become. i never started the comparison thing...that is squarely Atabey. he has some sort of jealousy of Jamaica, and insecurity. as long as he keeps irritating me, i will just continue to remind him of what we have achieved, with very little. i have much more laying in wait.
Written by: Atabey, 26 Nov 2011 1:57 PM
From: United States, NYC
Not so Dready. I've posted articles on Jamaican standouts like Bolt! to name one such Great from Jamaica.
It really rubs you the wrong way that this Spanish speaking land of quarreling people, beset with so much historical disturbance and inter-island issues-having to address its development while having as its neighbor the poorest member of the Western Hemisphere! No small task, Dready.
While his Jamaica has coughed up a huge advantage that saw it clear of DR by several thousands of dollars per capita during the 1960s and 1970s!
Jamaica should be along side Barbados and Bahamas!! Sadly, its had terrible leadership during these past 30-40 years and the numbers reflect the reality of the land.
Over to you Dready.
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 2:21 PM
From: Australia
Hang on, Ron!
Jamaica may have Bob Marley, but we've got Avetura!
A Bachata equivalent to Scotland's Bay City Rollers, or England's Spice Girls
(sorry, I can't think a more recent act that's so boring and bland.)
Oh I forgot, Aventura is an American group - maybe some Dominican blood, and one was actually born here (but left as a kid).
Yeah, you are right.
From: United States
in ten years, Aventura will be a trivia question.
Written by: Atabey, 26 Nov 2011 7:41 PM
From: United States, NYC
Not so Dready. I've posted articles on Jamaican standouts like Bolt! to name one such Great from Jamaica.
It really rubs you the wrong way that this Spanish speaking land of quarreling people, beset with so much historical disturbance and inter-island issues-having to address its development while having as its neighbor the poorest member of the Western Hemisphere! No small task, Dready.
While his Jamaica has coughed up a huge advantage that saw it clear of DR by several thousands of dollars per capita during the 1960s and 1970s!
Jamaica should be along side Barbados and Bahamas!! Sadly, its had terrible leadership during these past 30-40 years and the numbers reflect the reality of the land.
Over to you Dready.
From: United States
Jamaica should be along side Barbados and Bahamas!! Sadly, its had terrible leadership during these past 30-40 years and the numbers reflect the reality of the land.
terrible leadership, he says. maybe you could teach us how to run a country. send Hipolito to give us lessons.
Written by: Atabey, 26 Nov 2011 9:03 PM
From: United States, NYC
Yes, The Hippo was bad, but it isn't like you guys have had stellar leadership either. I mean, what then do you attribute such lousy economic returns for such a long period?
And do you not acknowledge that Jamaica's true status today should be somewhere near Barbados and the Bahamas? Heck, even close to PR at 16K per capita would be a great accomplishment.
From: United States
Written by: Atabey, 26 Nov 2011 9:03 PM
From: United States
Yes, The Hippo was bad, but it isn't like you guys have had stellar leadership either. I mean, what then do you attribute such lousy economic returns for such a long period?
see, Atabey, when you have a President such as Mejia in your history, you should not bring up the question of other people´s leaders. besides, economic downturns are more complicated than just bad leadership. i mean, you should know that, given the fact that you have an undergraduate degree in economics.
Written by: Atabey, 26 Nov 2011 11:10 PM
From: United States, NYC
"see, Atabey, when you have a President such as Mejia in your history, you should not bring up the question of other people´s leaders."
WOW, Dready. I as a Dominican can not bring up some other nation's political ineptitude, but You from Jamaica may state Dominican ones!
Again, where is the balance Dready? That's what get's you into all sorts of troubles here: you are not balanced in your assessments. Like the case of the be-headings. Why didn't you take the astute and seasoned veteran posture and reason out the tragedy around a pan-regional formulation? Why dredge into a DR centric take? I expected better from you.
From: United States
Like the case of the be-headings. Why didn't you take the astute and seasoned veteran posture and reason out the tragedy around a pan-regional formulation? Why dredge into a DR centric take? I expected better from you.
let us get the thread, and show me ONE remark i made , which includes ANY reference to Dominicans. you can run, but you cannot hide. ah, yes, the same thread in which you went back and changed something you said AFTER the matter had been debated. as i said, you are a liar, a fabricator, a misrepresenter, and just basic pond scum. find the reference...IDARE YOU!
From: United States
saved you the trouble , Atabey. here is the exact segment
Written by: dreadlocks, 3 Aug 2011 1:32 PM
From: United States
Juango states
This is NOT greed! This is sick, demented activity.
anyone who thinks this is greed motivated needs to have a talk with their psychiatrist. these are demented, amoral, unprincipled animals, who have no business being in schoolrooms. i think i have heard it all. this is savagery to the nth degree. this is not even an act which is remotely human in its nature. i better stop.
show me where anything i say in that sentence makes any reference to ANY COUNTRY.
you responded by calling my attention to beheadings in Jamaica. very adult, i must say. then, later in the proceedings, you altered the original thread, by editing your comments. very lowlife, but par for the course for you.
Written by: Atabey, 27 Nov 2011 2:38 PM
From: United States, NYC
"i think i have heard it all. this is savagery to the nth degree. this is not even an act which is remotely human in its nature."
The fact that you would take this tragedy and MANIFEST SUCH OUTRAGE WHEN IN FACT IN YOUR OWN HOMELAND OF JAMAICA, LESS THAN A WEEK FROM THIS TRAGIC EVENT, SEVERAL WOMEN HAD BEEN BE-HEADED IS THE ISSUE DREADY!
You hyperbolize the horrendous act in DR without taking into account that such inhuman practices were ALSO occurring in your own neck of the woods. That's my point.
If you had said: "These inhuman acts are deplorable and are an outrage to societal norms. Sadly they represent a regional degradation as my own homeland of Jamaica can attest."
That would have been an astute and reasonable dispensation of the matter by a wise and prudent man. But we found out otherwise, Dready.
From: Canada
Why are two students in the picture sitting on the floor?
From: United States
If you do not educate the young they will be unable to compete for the good jobs as adults. They schools must provide at least 6 classes a day five days a week. The must emphasize the core skills reading and math to be able to understand the future. My daughter goes to school 10 am to 2 pm and struggles with understanding the material. She is very bright but the material is taught quickly without discussion. She would be better off going to school 8 am to 3 pm like US students having the time to comprehend the materials
From: Canada
Kids here in Canada get on a rural school bus at 7am in the morning, start classes at 8am then get back on the bus at 3pm to home for 4pm and then there is homework.
The DR will need a major overhaul of the education system to maximize learning time. Technology can help but no pain no gain if you don't put the time into your studies. But everyone knows this including the nation's leadership.
Written by: RoyStone, 13 Dec 2011 12:50 PM
From: Australia
sweetbabyj,
Your daughter gets 5 hours at government school per day? That's more than most get. The reality is in the Dominican Republic, if you don't send her to a private school, then you must supplement her education at home. Not easy if all the kids around just play, fight and watch TV.
From: United States
RoyStone says
Not easy if all the kids around just play, fight and watch TV.
funny...i thought it was their parents who did that.
From: Canada
Turn off the TV and think awhile ...
From: United States, Orange County, California
Another thing I noticed in the DR is that neighbors play music too loud the whole day. I was taking some online class when I visited the DR and I had to drop the class because I could not study with so much noise every where. This is not the major cause of the problem but, I am sure it contributes on the failure of the education system. The governments do not like investing in education because the results cannot be immediately noticed as building roads and other infrastructures.
Written by: RoyStone, 14 Dec 2011 8:32 PM
From: Australia
ZonaDominicana,
"Empty vessels make the most noise."
Bachata is brain-dead music
Not sure if Mirangue is music at all
Hi-Hop definitely isn't
Volume is inversely proportional to the musical content.
Written by: RonEvane, 14 Dec 2011 8:35 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Another thing I noticed in the DR is that neighbors play music too loud the whole day."
Is that right? Which city, and which part of the city were you in? Not all neighbours or neighbourhoods are alike.
" I was taking some online class when I visited the DR and I had to drop the class because I could not study with so much noise every where.
Everywhere?.. DR isn't just one place. It is a large country. It's as big as Vermont and New Hampshire, combined!
Written by: RoyStone, 14 Dec 2011 8:44 PM
From: Australia
Ron, unfortunately those with an inverter and generator have the biggest egos and loudest sound systems.
Sorry, but I'm with ZonaDominicana on this one - noise (music to the tone-deaf) is almost inescapable no-matter where you go in this big(?) country.
Written by: RonEvane, 14 Dec 2011 8:45 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Volume is inversely proportional to the musical content."
I beg to differ;.... Volume is inversely proportional to the degree of consideration one has for his neighbour. And this has a direct correlation on one's level of formal and maternal/paternal education.
Most Dominicans have neither.
Written by: RonEvane, 14 Dec 2011 8:57 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"big(?) country."
Well, it ain't Australia, but it's big enough so that some of us can escape the low class neighbourhoods and the noise inherent to them.
From: Canada
Super loud music is quite mind jarring ... a motoconche goes by and boom boom boom ... go to a local cafe for a beer and the owner is happy to have a customer so the volume is cranked and boom boom boom ... lovely music gets converted to boom boom boom ... after 5 minutes of this boom boom boom there is no choice but to leave the beer on the table and get out of the blast zone ...
boom boom boom ... this is not music it is the sound of artillery ... does the DR have an artillery unit?
From: United States
RonEvane states, very insightfully
I beg to differ;.... Volume is inversely proportional to the degree of consideration one has for his neighbour. And this has a direct correlation on one's level of formal and maternal/paternal education.
Most Dominicans have neither
the sad thing is that studies have been conducted, which confirm the adverse effects of noise upon learning, and social activities. let me make the preemptive disclaimer that i am speaking in generalities, and realize that there are high class, urbane, civilized Dominicans, who abhor the acoustic vices to which i refer. however, Dominicans, in general, are the loudest people i have met so far. they love noise. that is why they remove the baffles from the mufflers of motorcycles, which they ride at breakneck speed at 2am, awakening everyone within earshot. it is a country which suffers from both acute, and chronic, noise. people shout at each other, in conversation, even if they are a foot apart.
From: United States
people speak on cellphones at volumes which suggest that they do not think the message is being relayed electronicallly, but though a piece of string. sadly, all these vices militate against pensiveness, contemplation, and just plain old sleep. 4% is good for education. so is 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Dec 2011 1:33 PM
From: United States, NYC
Finally two points that Dread and I are in agreement: 4% for education and 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep-well this last one with a caveat: a good woman is always allowed to disrupt my sleep! :))
From: United States
the less often you agree with me, the better i look.
Written by: RoyStone, 16 Dec 2011 2:37 PM
From: Australia
Atabey,
I don't think you will suffer sleep-deprivation if your 8-hour sleep is disrupted by a good woman for a 6-minute activity.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Dec 2011 2:43 PM
From: United States, NYC
I have more to give than 6 minutes! Perhaps you confuse me with el chivo viejo? lol
But the activity is proven to provide better and deeper sleep. ;)
From: United States
Written by: Atabey, 16 Dec 2011 2:43 PM
From: United States
I have more to give than 6 minutes! Perhaps you confuse me with el chivo viejo? lol
people who brag about their prowess, are, in the main, the most feeble of performers. it is called ¨compensation¨. any 1st year psychology student will attest to that reality.
Written by: josean, 16 Dec 2011 8:08 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Another concrete example of Lie-onel's "love" for education and the children of the republic:
"Education is owed more than 312 billion pesos in 13 years"
"SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic.-To date education is owed 312 billion pesos not invested in this sector since the General Education Act, law 66-97, went into effect on February 4, 1997 to date."
"This means that it was given to education was 40.23% and is due 59.77% from 2008, 2009 and 2010."
"These figures explain why education in our country is so disastrous," said Nelson Suárez, Juan Montalvo Center and researcher and budget analyst.
Isn't 312 billion pesos roughly the same figure that was stolen from the children of DR to build Lie-onel's magic re-election Choo- Choo Train aka the METRO?
Dread, how Billie Holiday sang it, “Romance without Finance is Nuisance? “
http://www.microsofttranslator.co....millones-de-pesos-en-13-anos.htmlFrom: United States
i believe that those were her exact words. with egomaniacs running the ship, education will always languish on the back burner, since, unlike the metro, nobody in particular can take credit for it.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Dec 2011 10:21 PM
From: United States, NYC
As a Batty boy I guess you get very compensated Dready. :)
Written by: Atabey, 16 Dec 2011 10:22 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: josean, 16 Dec 2011 8:08 PM
From: United States
Another concrete example of Lie-onel's "love" for education and the children of the republic:
"Education is owed more than 312 billion pesos in 13 years"
And guess what Josean? If you agree with Dready, it's NOT about spending money on education!
From: United States
Written by: Atabey, 16 Dec 2011 10:21 PM
From: United States
As a Batty boy I guess you get very compensated Dready. :)
i see where it is time to ip the dosage on your medications. besides, your congenital, apparently indomitable dishonesty sems to be uncontrollable. nowhere did i say that money was not needed. i stated, and i state again, that it will take more than money to fix the malaise. we ventilated it, ad nauseum, and you ran away when several posters were stating the same opionions that i was. besides, there are two seperate issues, here. sit tight, because this is going to be really complex, especially since your intellectual tools are not too sharp. the 4% is mandated, by the Constitution. whether or not it will fix matters is not the issue. the Chief Executive has a duty to uphold the Constitution. in the USA , failure to do so could lead to impeachment. here, nothing happens. get the point? didn't think you would, but i had to try, anyway.
Written by: josean, 17 Dec 2011 12:07 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Poor Atabey continues trying to create conflict were it does not exist, while he ignores the robbery being committed against this generation of Dominican children well as the next!
From: United States
Written by: josean, 17 Dec 2011 12:07 PM
From: United States
Poor Atabey continues trying to create conflict were it does not exist, while he ignores the robbery being committed against this generation of Dominican children well as the next!
that is because poor Atabey has an IQ which is smaller than his shoe size. he never passed closer than a mile to anything above grade school, but claims to have a masters degree in history, and a bachelors in economics, er, make that busines, er, make that who knows. i bet the dunce does not know the year Columbus landed here.
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Of course, on this matter all criticism of LF is justified. These results are but a realization of an abysmal state of affairs concerning educational achievement in DR. 4% should be the absolute minimum amount spent in DR given the enormous need and huge deficits in this sector.
So who is the lowest? Haiti? Anyone know? Not that it really matters it is still very deplorable and something the international investors should be looking at before coming here....
From: United States
some get the world out to the right people. it not money. it called determination and i will to learn. education starts at home."
100% TRUE. EDUCATION STARTS AT HOME. But the nation and state MUST provide decent schools, lunch, and good teachers for all its citizens. At minimum a K-12 program of study should be the accepted norm of operations. This is the 21th century we're talking about!
He is a very successful politician because he does not give the people what they need, but rather what they want, and Dominicans obviously don't want education.
The government has a responsibility to educate the children, not to feed them.
Yes I know before you say it, it's better than nothing at all............???
Sure improper nutrition is not conducive to learning. However there are many other factors too, that are not the responsibility of government. If the government is to take on the responsibilities that normally belong to parents, then they should also have the authority to adopt the children out to child-less couples who will give the children what they need, and sterilize the parents who don't.
There is a belief among many Dominicans that if God gives them a child, then God will ensure the child is provided for somehow.
40% of the major league baseball,
make that more like 27%. still, it is a formidable figure. as to education...well, without a CULTURE of education, all the king´s horses, and all the king´s men, will not change anything here, in that respect. this government spent over a million dollars building a state of the art parking lot for the Santo Domingo campus of UASD. it would probably put the parking lot at Harvard to shame. yet, as far as world rankings go, UASD comes in at 4300. maybe that money could have been used to upgrade the standards, rather than building yet one more monument to the legacy of king Leo, the first and only.
The teachers are not very good in many subjects and class discipline is bad .The 4% is not nearly enough to build sufficient class rooms and to train teachers ,What is needed is a sound plan and I have written before that the way forward is to have new high schools of a much bigger size that have art rooms, a playing field and a gym ..maybe 1000 to 2000 in a school ,instead of the hundreds of small schools with no facilities and insufficient teachers
However the real culprits are the parents who keep having more children they can't afford, and if they could, would not spend it on their real needs anyway.
Atabey ...you must mean the very nutritional white bread and poisonous milk they are giving the kids, great way to start the day, the basis of a good healthy "brekkie"....
Yes I know before you say it, it's better than nothing at all............???"
Wrong again. A healthy and nutritious breakfast or brekkie in Aussie speak, followed by a good lunch and perhaps a snack later on, a piece of fruit say, are essential parts of an overall educational system for a small developing nation like the DR. Of course, a FULL 7 hour day, 5 times a week, for say 220-240 days of the year would be fantastic. Education starts at home and is supported by an institutional nation-wide system of education. Something along the French system where all students are essentially taking the same subjects, especially from K-8 grades, and any family move will not put any child in a difficult academic situation, as the curriculum would be the same for K-8.
8 AM - 4 PM For the K-8 students. With extended afternoon to establish good fundamentals at the earliest stages. Homework done in after school program or extended day sessions.
7 AM- 12 Noon First group of 9-12 grade students. Perhaps this cohort will have the apprenticeship option and students will work after school in shops to gain experience.
1 PM - 7 PM Second group of 9-12 grade students. Perhaps this will be the academic track option with morning prep work leading to more intensive afternoon sessions. Internships during the summer break and winter break will serve to gain work experience.
Marked by or given to using irony in order to mock.
"Wrong again. A healthy and nutritious breakfast or brekkie in Aussie speak, followed by a good lunch and perhaps a snack later on, a piece of fruit say, are essential parts of an overall educational system for a small developing nation like the DR. Of course"
And here I'll add a " woowww really" and yes again I'm being sarcastic..... Calm down ok... breath before you reply and start insulting me .... I'm of the same view about education in Developing countries as I have seen and worked ones far worse off than this one....
Some people here at DT and DR are arriving late to education bandwagon.
When many of us spoke out against the irresponsible investments in METRO’s, overpasses and tunnels, to the proverbial social nowhere, we were tarred and feathered verbally. We were labeled as being against “modernization.”
When we spoke about unbalanced investment, both by economic sector and geographic region, i.e. all the eggs in the tourism basket at the expense of agriculture and all the “infrastructure” projects in the capital and its environs (while ignoring the real needs of the rest of the country) we were ridiculed. We were told that we did not understating the new ways of globalization, exporting, free trade and all the flavor of the month rhetoric that was being mass produce out of FUNGLODE.
continued:
Ah, but now the reality chickens have come home to roost. So it appears that the overt analyses of major respected world institutions, as well as the covert reports, thanks to Julian Assange via Wikileaks, are forcing the clapping seals of Lie-onel Fernandez’s amen corner to begin abandoning ship.
No matter what “development” Lie-onel brought to the country, his utter disdain for the educational needs of the children of the DR has not only impeded progress in educational development but has harmed and destroyed irreparably the future possibilities of millions of children. This, as Trujillo’s legacy, will have extremely negative and lasting consequences for many generations to come.
Not only have we not improved, but as accelerated as educational completion has become in the world, we are literally falling behind every second of everyday!
We are facing a national emergency that has national security implications in the here and now!
continued:
There is no example in the recorded human history of progress, development or the very sexy term “modernization” occurring without planned and sustained significant investments in education, from preschool to graduate education PERIOD!
In my opinion the human rights of both the born and yet to be born generations of Dominican children have been violated and our national identity and sovereignty are at risk.
Lie-onel Fernandez should be brought up on charges at the Inter-American Court of Human Rights or any other competent legal authority with jurisdiction!
The Dominican "bandwagon" as you call it, is not big enough for even the smallest Bachatta combo. At the last protest march (for the government to honor their constitutional obligation to commit at least 4% of GDP on education) the masses of Dominican citizens were conspicuous - by their absence. There was only a hard core of teachers and university students there!
In a democracy the priorities of government are set by the majority of the people. The majority want cheap (preferably free) petrol for their mosquitobike and cheap (preferably free) electricity for their TV. Hence the government subsidies these to the tune of 11% of GDP, while education is less than 2% Yet they expect it to include a nutritious free lunch?
Providing free baby-sitting (and lunch?) for disrespectful children of parents who don't give a damn about education, while receiving low wages, often weeks late - yeah, you really need friends in high places to get a job like that!
raulm says
40% of the major league baseball,
make that more like 27%."
If the Minor Leagues are included the percentage is far higher.
" The legislation changes the visa status of foreign-born minor league players to be able to use P-1 visas, formerly reserved only for major league players, and an upgrade from the H-2B visas, generally used by temporary foreign-born workers in numerous industries. Each team previously was limited to 26 H-2B visas per season for its minor leagues. Major leagues have no numerical limitations with the P-1 visa, valid for a period of 10 years.
Given that over 40% of minor leaguers are foreign-born and that most of them are from the Dominican Republic, this will enable a continuous pipeline of Latin American players. MLB’s foreign academies house, feed, school and teach athletic skills to boys as young as 10 years old until they are age 16, who are then allowed to sign minor league contracts.
Young Dominicans have the opportunity to benefit from more than just baseball skills but preparation for a life in the U.S. as well. They are given a chance to at least temporarily leave a life of depravity. By the same token, very few of these youngsters statistically make it to the major leagues and even prior to their new visa status, hundreds of minor leaguers were brought to the U.S. each year only to be relieved of their services. Hundreds of Dominican players also never return to their homeland and remain in the U.S. as illegal immigrants, primarily surviving in the underground economy of New York City.
It has been said that Latin players in the Dominican Republic sign for contracts between 5 and 10 cents on the dollar compared to their U.S. counterparts.
http://bizofbaseball.com/index.ph....catid=67:pete-toms&Itemid=155
" In the Dominican Republic there is a serious problem. We are among the lowest taxed countries in Latin America, [contributing from internal taxation a low percentage of our national pie towards the great needs of the nation or people.] That does not allow more spending power. The pressure is around 13% and government spending represents only 16% of GDP. You can not think of building a society like that of Spain or Europe for that level of spending. There are many social demands and everything falls on the State, and everyone wants the government to spend, but nobody wants to sit down and hash out where to get resources for development. The big challenge is to transform the growth into economic expansion and social development for the nation or people."
If DR wants its modernization its people have to accept more, not less
So it's rather simple, if DR wants to modernize and have good schools and housing, etc., it HAS TO PAY FOR IT!! Punto y Final.
Macro-economic stability will over time give DR a far better, LOWER RATE, to manage its debts and development. Right now investors want close to 6.5% to lend money to DR( this rate is not likely to be sustainable for the long term needs of the DR); with good standing and more experience at holding things in place, DR will see that rate drop to more sustainable rates: perhaps 4.5 territory! Gaining investment grade status would be a monumental step in DR's modernization process.
"IF EDUCATION IS THE KEY WHY THE MAKE IT SO HARD FOR US"
From: United States
One last point:
Macro-economic stability will over time give DR a far better, LOWER RATE, to manage its debts and development. Right now investors want close to 6.5% to lend money to DR( this rate is not likely to be sustainable for the long term needs of the DR); with good standing and more experience at holding things in place, DR will see that rate drop to more sustainable rates: perhaps 4.5 territory! Gaining investment grade status would be a monumental step in DR's modernization process.
none of which means anything in the area of education. there are countries which have lower investment grades, but higher school grades. how does a 4.5% investment percentage rate help a kid to learn to do algebra?
Not right away Dready. and that's why this is such a difficult situation for the country. Basically all the prior nonsense and dismal investments in education, stretching back several generations, are coming to roost. Dominicans have to begin to demand more of themselves and give back time and effort to help the needy.
It's all about managing debt obligations. If DR shows the international community that it can hold to its targets and sustain its macro-economic stability, then the rate charged for its debt will go down while its debt rating will increase to investment grade status. With such an event, DR will then be able to access far more debt, at reasonable rates, to invest in all those deficit areas everyone-it appears-wants it to. Getting to this point is the difficult part.
Of course, it would be great if Dominicans could rely on internal savings and seek less international overall debt to mange its development; but that's not likely to be in the cards.
it's: The DR can expect better future benefits by a lowering of its sovereign debt obligations and these could be used to address the vast deficiencies in education.
But I know you need to be spoon fed these days.
it's: The DR can expect better future benefits by a lowering of its sovereign debt obligations and these could be used to address the vast deficiencies in education.
if i have to be spoonfed, the least i ca n hope is that the spoon is not being held by a guy at the bottom of the bell curve. do you think before you write such utter rubbish? do you realize how stupid you look when you say such things? do you seriously believe that the education deficits are a function of money? deficiencies in education? do you think that the problem lise only in money? man, i feel sorry for you. what you are actually implying is that the 141 countries that beat the DR in the last surveys are all in better economic shape. pathetic. i thought theven you had a bottom below which you could not sink. i guess not.
When a nation spends close to 2% of its PIB on education and that nation has a very long track record of starving its educational system since................forever! I think it reasonable to say that in our Dominican context, the educational achievement deficit IS A FUNCTION OF VERY LOW SPENDING throughout the past generations! Again, why don't YOU DREADY read a good history of the DR. It's high time you began to acknowledge that your great deficit in DR history is causing you great problems in mentally digesting the issues concerning DR. Your Jamaican history does not qualify you-unless you prep up in Dominican history-to address matters so outside your information load.
With so much time on your hand try learning some Spanish and Dominican history might come in handy, too. :)
DR------------------------- Education spending (% of GDP) ---- 2.3% [122nd of 132]
Costa Rica ------------------Education spending (% of GDP) 5.1% [55th of 132]
Colombia:----------------------------------------------------------------- 5.2%
Dready's Jamaica---- ------------------------------- ----------- 6.1%
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph....edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdp
As you can see Dready, investments in Education do matter.
With so much time on your hand try learning some Spanish and Dominican history might come in handy, too. :)
you assume too much. i speak, and read, spanish, fluently. sorry to disappoint you. one less ad hominem you can resort to. as to the percentages of GDP spent on education...how much does Japan spend?
Dready's Jamaica---- ------------------------------- ----------- 6.1%
that is to ensure that we do not turn out nincompoops like you. education might be expensive, but ignorance is even more costly. i mean, look at you.
From: United States
says the bell curve man
With so much time on your hand try learning some Spanish and Dominican history might come in handy, too. :)
you assume too much. i speak, and read, spanish, fluently. sorry to disappoint you. one less ad hominem you can resort to. as to the percentages of GDP spent on education...how much does Japan spend?
---------------------------------------------Costa Rica-------DR
Education spending (% of GDP) 5.1% --------2.3%
Again, who's at fault for this great disparity? And given the very large previous deficits, DR should spend a larger percentage than Costa Rica!
Again, who's at fault for this great disparity? And given the very large previous deficits, DR should spend a larger percentage than Costa Rica!
and then, what would happen? i notice you sidestepped the question regarding how much Japan spends. i did not forget that i asked you.
As you can see Dready, investments in Education do matter.
strangely, he does not show us any correlative evidence between spending and results, but gives a conclusion. all the gold in Fort Knox cannot cure the mental deficit that he possesses.
dready states that there is no correlation between educational investment-spending-and educational achievement?
Would you like to please explain how you came to this conclusion from anything dread has said? I have read it and see no example to justify the above statement by you..
. Moreover, the inequality produced by globalisation and neoliberalism has generated a political backlash in many countries, including Australia. A modernised version of Keynesian social democracy, modified in the light of tight budget constraints and the need for monetary stability, remains an attractive option.
"Would you like to please explain how you came to this conclusion from anything dread has said? I have read it and see no example to justify the above statement by you.. " -Stillhere
I assume you will be able to comprehend Dready's statement above. The understanding is very clear: dready is mistaken with respect to DR's perennial educational deficit. The DR, as I've stated many times, has STARVED the educational budget for GENERATIONS, in very few years spending-INVESTING-sufficient amounts to remedy the nation's large educational gap. The DR spends too much at the third stage of education, or college/universities, and not enough at the lower Primary level. Even the magical 4% of PIB is far lower than needed to bring DR to standards.
I assume you will be able to comprehend Dready's statement above. The understanding is very clear: dready is mistaken with respect to DR's perennial educational deficit.
mistaken? i can read charts, Atabey. i am not the idiot who looked at a statistical model and called it calculus. i am not the ape who said that a scatter chart came out scattered. lest you forget, i am the one of the two of us who went to college. you only think you are bright. we all know better.
4 hours per day, 5 days per week (provided there is no strike, sickie, truancy or it doesn't rain much) 36 weeks per year = 720 hours per year at school.
16 waking hours per day, 265 days per year = 5,480 hours
Hence each student spends at most, 12% of his or her waking hours at school.
How are they spending the other 88%?
RoyStone,
The above comparison between Costa Rica and the DR illustrates the great distance two similar sized nations in Latin America have tackled their educational quest. In Costa Rica, the leadership has for more than 100 years embarked on sensible and practical measures to ensure that there citizens have opportunities to reasonable educational achievement. In the DR, the drive towards National or comprehensive Primary educational achievement, to say nothing about secondary educational achievement has been abysmal. The public investment as measured by % of GNP in education in DR
As for the vast sea of illiterate adult population, a publically funded
Adults have to take charge and READ and cultivate the arts and sciences in DR. At some point, people have to make the commitment in time and resources to achieve better education. I've seen so many young people with so little by way of resources achieve far better results and achievements over other people far better blessed with resources to understand that at heart it is the individual that must demand of him/herself the right attitude and fortitude to seek intellectual nourishment.
Now now dready let's not get carried away. It IS implied by your statement that monies-investment-spending-or whatever term you want to use is according to you not the problem concerning DR's low level of educational achievement.
it is implied ony by a cretin, who cannot understand anything more complex than the Macy´s catalogue. observing you trying to understand a simple concept is like watching a man trying to catch a fly i the dark. i will re-state that all the gold in Fort Knox will not, on its own, address the education deficit in the DR. i notice that you have completely ignored my question about the amount of GDP spent by Japan. as usual, you are a lowlife coward, who runs away when he cannot confront realities. i declare you pitful, and stupid too.
I was giving you some time to THINK through you're idiotic request; but seeing that you continue to soil yourself, it's time to ask you to clean up your act. That "mud" in your glasses stinks, too.
"Japan. Although our premier trading rival makes better cars, electronics, and countless other products than we do, Japanese children--according to the reform chorus--are poorly served by the public schools; government expenditures on education total only 5.1 percent of the GNP.(13) However, as is commonly known, Japanese students excel in international comparisons of mathematical and scientific knowledge.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa126.html
"Public Educational Expenditures in the United States: An Analytical Comparison with Other
Industrialized Countries"
Read also: http://www.csus.edu/indiv/l/langd/Ram.pdf
As you can see. 5.1% of GNP is way above the levels spent in the DR. And Japan is a country with an enormously positive educational track record vis-a-vis the DR. Thus 5.1% of GNP in addition to all the private coaching and religious instruction given, that means more than 5.1% of GNP is spent in Japan Dready, in case you have trouble understanding that. :)
BTW, Japan's pop. growth is fundamentally static or negative unlike the DR. :)
Yes I agree education "Good education" starts in preschool and at home with parenting and with in the community around the child...
But when Dread talked about all the money in fort knox fixing the problem is true... without good teach principals and the desire of parents to send their children to school, not have to rely on the few pesos they bring home from cleaning shoe ect.. Things will not get better with all the money in the world... Right?? Can we all agree on that??
We can all go on and on about who spends what and how much but it really has not much to do with HOW it needs to be fixed here... Yes more needs to be spent and parents need to take more responsibility as well as the rest of the community. But it's not addressing how to get the government to do whats needed, whats right and stop all of the posturing bullshit and just get on with fixing it........
No one has claimed that monies-investments-spending or whatever other term you'd like to express greater resources into education DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SPENT WISELY! The issue is that DR, and if you are a Dominican like myself you know this as an INDISPUTABLE FACT: the country has starved the education sector for many generations.
1. How many schools need to be built and rebuilt and supplied in DR?
2. How many teachers need to be trained and employed to address the many thousands of students that receive no credible educational opportunities?
If you're honest, and not just argumentative like Dready, you very well know
What Japan spends on education is an asinine comparison given that:
1. Japan had its Meiji Restoration and massive industrialization OVER 100 years ago!!
2.And that Japan modernized its society quickly after the devastation of WWII BECAUSE it had ALREADY established a well stock quantity of well educated and scientifically trained citizens.
3. Furthermore, the Japanese are in slow if negative growth population wise and thus her large educational spending days are behind her. The DR has a growing population with lots of cross border numbers coming from Haiti and in need of even more public spending by way of education, health and other needs.
, and if you are a Dominican like myself you know this as an INDISPUTABLE FACT: the country has starved the education sector for many generations.
look at what it did to you.
2004 Data
Dominican Republic
Children out of school, primary 139,654
Japan
6,844
You can't handle this argument dready. Your position has been devastatingly destroyed. Now go change your pampers. :)
Japanese believe in study, hard work, thrift, honesty, only having as many kids as they can afford, real national pride, and don't believe in an invisible man in the sky.
Dominicans are the opposite.
Q.E.D.
You see how idiotic you are? You can't even stay consistent on one thread!!
La primera dama define al presidente Fernández como “el gran padre de la educación”
CEDEÑO DE FERNÁNDEZ HABLÓ EN UN ACTO ENCABEZADO POR EL PRIMER MANDATARIO
Santo Domingo
La primera dama Margarita Cedeño de Fernández, definió al presidente Leonel Fernández como “el gran padre de la educación”, debido a su constante preocupación por el mejoramiento de ese sector en busca de preparar la juventud dominicana para que sea catalizadora de los retos del Siglo XXI.
Cedeño de Fernández habló en un acto encabezado el jefe del Estado, donde el Despacho de la Primera Dama, el Ministerio de Educación y el Banco de Reservas reunieron este miércoles en el Palacio Nacional a jóvenes estudiantes del país ganadores y participantes de las tradicionales olimpíadas nacionales de matemática, lectura y ortografía.
Indicó que los ganadores de dichos concursos son el resultado de un proyecto iniciado desde su despacho en el 2005 con muchas e
you had to put up something to make some other point instead of just saying yes ....or do you really not agree with anything I or anyone else has said ???????
Yes as you said "money needs to be spent wisely" and Yes I and everyone is not disputing that.... and on one has said different.. so why say it? I didn't...
Roy didn't make your point, he pointed out that the difference in the cultures can determine the amount needed to be spent on education...it's you that keeps copy/paste all these numbers, reports and comparing the DR to other countries spending...
i give up... all you really want is us to say is " Yes Atebey you are right.. all hail Atebey"...
king of the one sided debate
There is no finding common ground and discussing what can be done to help.....
Consider DR's 3 biggest earners - #1 Tourism, #2 Dominicans in USA #3 Mining
That means most of DR's money comes from foreigners, not earned by locals.
#1 Is probably in decline and when Cuba comes on line will plummet
#2 I suspect these Dominicans will eventually give up on DR and adopt USA as their homeland
#3 Is largely foreign capital and will move off-shore if dealing with the corruption becomes to difficult
The Dominicans the country needs are moving offshore. Remaining are those benefiting from the corruption, or are poor peasants with no interest in education, self improvement or working hard.
The crime rate per 100,000, unlike DR's competitors, is steadily increasing, In real terms it is increasing exponentially because of the exponential population growth. And who's having most of the babies? Poor uneducated, teenagers.
--------------------
Stilhere: Who was it that requested Japan's data above? Who was it that stated that this comparison was asinine to the debate as Japan versus DR comparisons were unworthy of discussion? Just read it dude.
ok I think I'm all done with this..... anyone have something to add that may keep this interesting, constructive and helpful?
People added small and relevant pieces of data plus insight and moved on, you copy/paste data....
Atabey. I'm with you on this one. Some fellows here are self-appointed PHDs and crystal ball gazers able to predict the future on all matters Dominican.
While it's true Dominicans generally don't care to send their children to school, or don't realize the value of a good education, more money, can, and will make a big difference in preparing our children for a better future.
These gazers are, in their heads, irrefutably convinced they know all there is to realize an accurate and tangible take on what won't work to reverse our path in education.
They are, for the most part, incorrigible pessimists who get their kicks by showcasing the illusionary knowledge on what's yet to happen. We, humans, given the right environment to grow mentally and otherwise, can accomplish anything reachable.
The key word here is "environment". Reasonable expenditure on education. With good schools supplied with the right materials, better paid/qualified teachers and longer hours will do the trick.
All I'm asking for is a decent K-12 educational opportunity for all Dominican children. That should not have to be up for debate, it's too rational and modern a thought.
Check out the stats on DR here:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/d....total-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html
Just piss off then man.why you here?
From: Australia
Dominicans are not denied education - they just aren't interested in it."
Roy,
You say Dominicans aren't interested in education. Well if that were so Dominicans would not have staged bloody battles to during the 1960s, 1970s and even during the 1980s when government forces hammered, with the aid of about 40,000 Marines in the 1960s, popular uprising against their governments handling of domestic affairs, educational opportunity being one key point for all the unrest.
One unfortunate development in Dominican history is that the educational opportunity bandwagon has traditionally been driven with leftist credentials. and this has given the notion of universal education a leftist tinge. We all know why a dictator like Trujillo would not have been interested in promoting an educated population; but Balaguer followed a similar trajectory and he hammered the opposition with massive violence- check the history
So it's not so simple as: Dominicans don't want to be educated. It's far more complicated than that.
Had the uprising against the government taken place today, it might be called the Dominican Spring and not an attempt at creating a second Cuba as happened during the 1960s Constitutional uprising.
Modernity is a function of an educated population. 2% of GNP for education will not get you modernity.
Check out the stats for DR:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/d....total-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html
You can see graphically the historical trends for the Dominican Republic or any other nation at:
http://www.gapminder.org/world
I think those on this site are unanimous that 2.2% of GDP or 11% of government spending on education is miserably inadequate. My argument is, however, that this is not a priority for the majority of the voting public (and particularly those who don't even bother to vote).
It is a vicious circle and it seems nobody knows how to break it. Some argue that those who have the power (the political, military, police and church hierarchy) have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Yeah?
I think illiteracy is not as widespread here as it appears. Many people can read but don't bother to. TV and idle chat is easier. Also it's hard to concentrate on the printed page with monotonous loud noise (mistakenly called music) blasting in one's ear.
They are, for the most part, incorrigible pessimists who get their kicks by showcasing the illusionary knowledge on what's yet to happen. We, humans, given the right environment to grow mentally and otherwise, can accomplish anything reachable.
and just what do you consider to be the ¨right environment¨?. please explain what it looks like. what components make for the right environment? are they present, or absent, in the country? if they are present, but not being used, can money effect a change?. if they are not present, can they be occasioned by money? since you feel importuned to go ballistic against people who express opinions, then take the opportunity to set us straight, instead of acting like a child who has just fallen and skinned his knee. this debating thing is supposed to ventilate issues. open a window, please.
One unfortunate development in Dominican history is that the educational opportunity bandwagon has traditionally been driven with leftist credentials. and this has given the notion of universal education a leftist tinge.
sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Atabey, but all egalitarian ideals are considered left wing. if there are proponents of a universal, equal opportunity for all education system, then they are leftists, by nature.
More recently rightist Christian fundamentalism has reared its ugly head in the USA, to the determent of education in general, and particularly in biological science education and research. Who would have thought back when NASA was landing on the moon, half a century later most Americans would still believe in the Biblical Creation?
More recently rightist Christian fundamentalism has reared its ugly head in the USA, to the determent of education in general, and particularly in biological science education and research.
it has reared its ugly head here, too. Gospel grinding is the new, big , growth industry here. just what we needed. another crutch for a destitute people. so, if we do not win the pale, or the number of the day, then Dios will take care of us, somehow.
I stated very clearly that it was the 1960s! And something rather newsworthy happened in 1959 in the Caribbean.
And to illustrate the non-sense of your notion, several Asian countries have implemented universal educational systems DESPITE being Rightist or Conservative regimes! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news old goat.
Here's Dready on Dominicans:
"...[T]he parents do not value education, and cannot socialize their kids into valuing it themselves. at Jewish schools in New York, when there is a parent-teachers meeting, all the parents of the kids attend. they want to know exactly what is going on, and do not want hearsay...they want first hand knowledge. when their kids come home from school, the first thing they have to do is to sit and do their homework. our(sic) {Dominican} kids here stop at the sports field on the way from home, and hang out with the opposite sex all afternoon. it is cultural. some people value education, some do not. all the money in the world cannot fix that. you can lead the horse to the freshest, most nutritious, vitamin filled water. you just cannot make him drink it."
The historical context is completely missing in Dready's take. DR is NOT NYC. Schools, teachers, materials ARE PUBLICALLY FUNDED FOR ALL STUDENTS IN NYC. DR HAS NEVER HAD THAT!!
The historical context is completely missing in Dready's take. DR is NOT NYC. Schools, teachers, materials ARE PUBLICALLY FUNDED FOR ALL STUDENTS IN NYC. DR HAS NEVER HAD THAT!!
as usual, he is wrong. there are several privately funded schools in New York. you should get out more often. you claim to live there, but seem stuck in the cockfight auditorium. never heard of parochial schools? i love it when you use the large font to highlight what you are saying, then talk some crap. really shows up how ignorant you are.
It doesn't take more than that to "grow" a generation of people with the acquired knowledge and capability to achieve or resolve almost any challenges before them.
But, of course, it takes money and effort from the govt to make it so...And that's where the complication starts and ends.
If this were not the case, sir, private schools and universities in DR would be churning out illiterates and we'd be another Jamaica.
If this were not the case, sir, private schools and universities in DR would be churning out illiterates and we'd be another Jamaica.
would be churning out illiterates? what do you consider yourself? as to your little quip about Jamaica...you would love to be. draw up a list for me of areas in which you perform better, and let us get to business. by the way,k UASD ranks 4300 in the world university ratings. that is the highest ranking of any university here. the University of the West Indies ranks 930. any questions?oh, i forgot. we have never ranked 130 out of 130 countries tested in educational achievement. always beaten at least one country. hmmmm...
As for Dready's mindless rantings: every child in NYC, including illegals, is allowed to enter and be seated in a PUBLICALLY funded school. And if placement is difficult or wanting, NYC and State will PAY FOR YOUR CHILD'S PRIVATE education tuition.
You can opt for Private schooling or Parochial institutions of learning. But that is up to YOU and the school. Get your facts correct, I know more than you do about the system.
We're still waiting for Dread to produce his evidence concerning Dominican UNWILLINGNESS to send their children to school and appreciate an educational opportunity.
Where's your evidence for Dominicans in DR not wanting,if given an opportunity, to drink from the nectar of knowledge?
You are a phoney, pseudo skeptic and pseudo critical thinker, Dready. This give and take has demonstrated much evidence for that view.
Go back and peddle your ideas in Jamaica. Oh, I see, that might have been WHY they rejected you before.
Where is your evidence Sir Pseudo Skeptic of all things Dominican?
I think even those of the left would agree that it is not the government's responsibility to provide "a decent roof, food to eat every day," and certainly not to provide "a supporting and encouraging family." Yes these do impact on a child's ability to learn. So do their genes, and how may siblings they need to compete with for resources. Perhaps this should also be government's responsibility too? Of course to meet such a responsibility they will need to practice eugenics and carry out compulsory sterilization, as they see fit. That's okay with you?
I think you miss Dready's bleedingly-obvious point that no-matter what educational facilities the government provides, the kids won't get a good education if they and their parents have the wrong attitude, and unfortunately that's what Dominicans have. The other side of that coin is some kids, despite having limited resources, excel academically, as a result of their and their family's attitude. I'm sure you know some example
I'm not so sure if the government is deliberately keeping the masses uneducated. They are just not allocating sufficient funds as they have other priorities. So does the electorate.
The church is another story. Keeping the masses uneducated is policy. It's written in their big book their believers carry around but never read (except for a few passages selected for them but their priest, explaining why Jesus needs them to put money in the collection plate, and bring their friends along to the church fete, or should that be spelled fate?).
So your brother's on drugs. What's your excuse?
Regarding the protests about education in the 1960s, I doubt if many of the current generation of parents with school-age children were even born then, let alone took part. From what I am told, the Dominicans of today are very different from earlier times.
Let me be perfectly clear on this matter: You and Dread are correct that "parental involvement and motivation" are critical ingredients in constructing a child's educational achievement horizon. Teachers play another crucial role, too. But that is NOT Dready's Generalized Theory of Why Dominicans are in this morass of an issue. He has made numerous statements concerning Dominicans NOT WANTING to be educated! That if offered the nectar of enlightenment, Dominicans would shy away and instead turn up the volume on some machine or dabble away on some gossip channel. Dready, has looked into his mysterious 8-Ball and arrived at this unsupported theory. I merely asked him to produce evidence in the Dominican Republic for his outrageous notion. He can't. And it's easy to see why he can't produce the goods: Because when Dominicans are provided a clean school, with competent staff and materials, children and their parents flock to enter these institutions.
Mr. Roy. I'm not saying it's the govt's responsibility to directly provide a roof, food to eat, etc., but, in a way it is! If our govt did not just exist in the present, It would have realized long ago that the ONLY way to prosperity, and thereby provide for its citizens, is to educate its' people.
You're way off in suggesting eugenics plays a role or that compulsory sterilization would solve anything! ..You and Dreary keep on hammering on the same invalid point that the status quo can not be irrefutably changed because we're hopeless dummies with no wish to change. "that's the way it's been for ages", say you. The only constant is change, it is said. There's always a cause and effect. Whatever is done today will have a significant consequence tomorrow. Maybe good or bad. It all depends on what you saw. Education in our country has little to do with attitude and a lot with what is planted today. A little money and nurturing can go a long way!
Individuals act in their self-interest. If education is available and compulsory up until say 16 years of year, most people will avail themselves of the opportunity. If they have to pay for it out of pocket individually, socioeconomic status will sway-not determine- their choices.
An interesting article on Spain.
Spanish boom town that went bust
Vicente Ruiz, owner of the El Buyí bar, will vote for Rajoy. "When Caritas is the biggest employer in town, things are really bad," he says. "It is shameful to have to ask for charity. What we need is a Mrs Thatcher."
Public money is being spent on silly projects, clients in his bar agree. "I've had 60-year-old women coming to bricklaying courses," says one, Nicolás. "It is ridiculous, but they each get their own overalls and hammer."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2....-benalup-unemployment-euro-crisis
"By 2004, more than 80% of Benalup's labour force worked in construction, building homes or holiday apartments along the nearby Mediterranean coast.
"Kids left school at 16 because they could earn €3,000 a month working a three-and-a-half-day week," says Moguel. "I had university-trained engineers working in my company who were earning less than that."
As money poured into people's pockets, the number of banks in town doubled. La Caixa, a newly arrived savings bank, started a local lending war – its manager winning awards. "Kids were buying houses and cars with the loans. And those who already had a house bought another one," says Moguel.
Peña delivers the same diagnosis of Benalup's ills as his Socialist opponents. "Too many people dropped out of school to become bricklayers.
Moral of the story: A good education can feed you in all seasons.
Countries that deny or foolishly waste their economic health to schemes such as the one above suffer the consequences dearly.
Mr. Dread, you keep on ranting about rankings etc. I couldn't care less about how high or low our universities are in the the eyes of the world as long as we are provided with the best education possible. Yes, we don't have a Harvard or a Princeton, but neither does your demotivated, crime- ridden, Ganja- smoking, little island.
Do I need to remind you that we are the proud title holder of the biggest economy in Central America and the Caribbean? What does that mean to you? Nothing? Of course, you'll dismiss it as being inconsequential and insignificant!
We're slowly inching our way to prosperity while Jamaica languishes in despair with little hope of economically, getting anywhere near where we are today.
In your above rant and I will call it that .. contradicting yourself by calling out dread for making comparisons between one thing and another, then you go on to do the exact thing yourself.... please if your going to complain about something then don't do it yourself.......
Vicente Ruiz, owner of the El Buyí bar, will vote for Rajoy. "When Caritas is the biggest employer in town, things are really bad," he says. "It is shameful to have to ask for charity. What we need is a Mrs Thatcher."
I'm sorry but is this person insane????? Mrs Thatcher????
Do I need to remind you that we are the proud title holder of the biggest economy in Central America and the Caribbean? What does that mean to you? Nothing? Of course, you'll dismiss it as being inconsequential and insignificant!
yes, you do have the biggest economy in the region, in terms of actual GDP. so, that means what? tell me how it affects the following
1...42 % of population below the poverty line
2 the education system, in which you routinely come in at last place in international education testings
3..one of the worst electricity systems in the world
4...number 2 in the world in government miamanagement of the economy
4..number 4 in the world in exportation of prostitutes..
5..tied with Colombia for last place in ethnic group per capita salaries in the USA..
i will stop there. however, as you see, it´s not what you have, it´s how you use what you have. understand?
One of the highest rates of:
Underage pregnancy
Population explosion
Murder
Road deaths
Let's see what happens to the GDP when the tourism industry collapses, Dominican in USA decide they are Americans and stop sending money, and an overdue big earthquake or hurricane strikes.
Yes, we don't have a Harvard or a Princeton, but neither does your demotivated, crime- ridden, Ganja- smoking, little island
two observations. firstly, although we might not have a Harvard or Princeton, we have a university than ranks number 930 in the world. that is closer to Harvard than UASD, which ranks 4300. much closer. ask one of your numerate friends to explain to you the difference between 930 and 4300. secondly, a lot of weed is smoked in Jamaica. far too much. however, you better consider the crack cocaine epidemic that is gripping your own country, before you accuse others of drug use. on the subject of motivation...i would not even bother to answer you. i would give you a list of accomplishments and achievements that have originated in an unmotivated country, but your brain will be fried.
And Dready, do you REALLY WANT TO GET INTO A DR VERSUS JAMAICA COMPARISON?
The beat down I gave you last time should have been good for at least a years worth of solitude on your part. Why do you want to rehash settled matters?
For those who aren't aware of it, Dready got a beat down on the Forum Section when he tried to take me on this Jamaica versus DR debate. Basically, Jamaica coughed up a substantial lead over DR in the last 50 years or basically since she gained independence from Great Britain.
At one point, Jamaica was far richer and more stable than DR. Her economy was sounder and had good macro-economic foundations. and then it all started to change and the DR began to close the gap on Jamaica. By now, Jamaica is the one that's a basket case-essentially bankrupt and in possession of one of the worst macro-economic regimes in the Caribbean.
Go to
http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$....smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=;example=75
And check out the Trends between DR and Jamaica. You will see how Jamaica's huge lead has all but evaporated over the last 40 years.
In 1973 Jamaica had a GDP per person of $7, 960! adjusted for Inflation (PPP), while DR's was $2,390!
DR (2006) ===$5,644
Jamaica (2006)==$ 7, 291
Essentially, Jamaica has been STATIC and Negative losing $670 GNP per person over that span of time, since 1966. The DR has doubled her GNP per person in the same period.
The narco problem in the region has exploited small countries and corrupted governments officials, seem to be one of the main problem in the past few decades, give poor people the chose between an education/good job and fast money, fast money will win every time... and it seem to be even gov officials have chosen the fast money, be it the hand in the piggy bank of the country, turn a blind eye to bags falling from the sky, or extra money to get anything done. No country can say everything is great at home... things can always be better, so again I ask.... what can be done... who is taking the lead... who is setting a good example?
[8.3%]---1999
[8%]------2000
[1.5%]---2001
[4.2%]---2002
[-0.7%]-[2003
[1.7%] --2004
[9.3]------2005
[10.7] --- 2006
[8.5]-----2007
[5.3] ----2008
[3.5]--- 2009
[7.8]---- 2010
Country:Jamaica
-0.5-----1999
0.2--2000
1.1--2001
0.4 --2002
1.9--2003
1.9 --2004
1.8--2005
2.3--2006
1.2--2007
-0.6--2008
-2.8--2009
-1.1 --2010
Definition of GDP - per capita (PPP): This entry shows GDP on a purchasing power parity basis divided by population as of 1 July for the same year.
Country: Dominican Republic
1999---5,400
2000---5,700
2001---5,800
2002-- 6,100
2003---6,000
2004---6,300
2005---7,500
2006---8,400
2007---6,600
2008---8,200
2009---8,300
2010---8,900
Country: Jamaica
1999--3,350
2000--3,700
2001--3,700
2002--3,900
2003--3,900
2004--4,100
2005--4,500
2006--4,600
2007--7,400
2008--7,500
2009--8,400
2010--8,300
Dready, sorry to inform you but DR
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=67&c=jm&l=en
Both trends, economic growth and GNP, are growing far stronger than in Jamaica!
Come to think of it, maybe it's best not to argue further with these folks.
I don't know about you ,but, judging by the way they express themselves and solid empirical proof they present on all things Dominican, it's quite obvious to me that they must have earned their PhD in "Dominican studies", et, al. and we haven't a chance in hell to argue.. We simply cannot stand up to these geniuses when it comes to education and experience.
I'd say, it's best to let them debate themselves and just watch from the sidelines and learn stuff we may not know much about. Also, it'll be interesting to see how they fabricate their strategy of insulting and belittling others when one can't come up with a good rebuttal.
I think this may be a golden opportunity to further enhance our "little minds" by learning from the pros, when to , and when not to, present irrelevant gibberish, with no real meaning. If we're ever to show impressive arguments, we need to strategize the way they famously do
Essentially, Jamaica has been STATIC and Negative losing $670 GNP per person over that span of time, since 1966. The DR has doubled her GNP per person in the same period.
catching up does not mean you have caught up. i notice that the only thing that catches your attention is the GDP figures, but, typical of you, you ignore the matrices. what do you ignore the categories i mention? not to your liking?
Essentially, Jamaica has been STATIC and Negative losing $670 GNP
GDP, Atabey, GDP. not GNP. if you are going to argue a point, at least understand what you are talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7d-UIBE3K4&feature=related
Here's the long version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp87pNmpil8&feature=related
http://urbantitan.com/10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-in-2011/
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 9:11 PM
From: United States
I'm listening to Jimi so please don't disturb the moment.
somebody is looking for an mp3 .
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS in Jamaica
Country 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
9,900 9,900 20,000 22,000 22,000 22,000 22,000 22,000 27,000 27,000 32,000
In 2001 Jamaica had 9,900 and by 2011 the population had grown to 32,000!
Inflation rate (consumer prices) (%) in Jamaica
Country 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
------ 9.4-- 8.8--- 6.9 7---- 10.3 ---12.4---15.3----- 5.8-- 9.5-- 22--- 9.6-- 13
Investment (gross fixed) (%) in Jamaica
Country 2004----2005-----2006-----2007------2008-----2009----2010
--------------32------ 32.4------30.8------34.2------26.5------24.6------25.1
Down trending Dready on the last two, but up trending on the first!
Definition of Investment (gross fixed): This entry records total business spending on fixed assets, such as factories, machinery, equipment, dwellings, and inventories of raw materials, which provide the basis for future production. It is measured gross of the depreciation of the assets, i.e., it includes investment that merely replaces worn-out or scrapped capital.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=71&c=jm&l=en
For example, less than 40% of those in need of antiretroviral therapy were
receiving it in the Dominican Republic and Haiti in 2006 (37% and 39%, respectively).
yes, Atabey. your handling of the epidemic is worse than Haiti´s. i guess you are going to blame Haiti for that, too.
Population below poverty line (%)
Country 1999---- 2002---- 2003---- 2004---- 2005---- 2006---- 2007
------------ 25-------- 25----- 25-------- 42.2-------25------- 25-------- 25
Dominican Republic Inflation rate (consumer prices) (%)
YR---(%)
1999=5.1
2000=7.9
2001=5
2002=5.3
2003=27.5
2004=55
2005=4.2
2006=8.2
2007=6.1
2008=10.6
2009=1.4
2010=6.3
Definition of Inflation rate (consumer prices): This entry furnishes the annual percent change in consumer prices compared with the previous year's consumer prices.
Definition of Population below poverty line: National estimates of the percentage of the population falling below the poverty line are based on surveys of sub-groups, with the results weighted by the number of people in each group. Definitions of poverty vary considerably among nations. For example, rich nations generally employ more generous standards of poverty than poor nations.
Country 2004----2005-----2006-----2007------2008-----2009----2010
--------------32------ 32.4------30.8------34.2------26.5------24.6------25.1
Down trending Dready on the last two, but up trending on the first!
Atabey, when you have not been to school, and have no idea of how to interpret statistics, you should stay away from making yourself look even dumber than you are. in both sets of data which you claim are trending down, there is no trend. the figures oscillate between a lower and a higher figure. if you can read figures, 2008 is higher than 2009, and 2010 is higher tha 2009. that is called fluctuation, and has no trend. the same goes for the figures on inflation. some years are very high, followed by lows, followed by highs. then again, how would i expect you to understand this? you are the same guy who looked at a statistical model and called it calculus.
Dominican students “learn the least in the region”
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 10:27 PM
From: United States
Dominican Republic
Population below poverty line (%)
Country 1999---- 2002---- 2003---- 2004---- 2005---- 2006---- 2007
------------ 25-------- 25----- 25-------- 42.2-------25------- 25-------- 25
as usual, the intellectually decrepit wonder chooses his data from a single source, the one which suits him. there are other surveys which contradict these numbers you published. then again, intellectual and academic rectitude are not a part of your game. you just want to WIN. i understand. you are such an example of uninterrupted insignificance, anything is a triumph for you.
Current Account Balance (US$)
2004------ (-)830,700,000
2005----- (-)974,000,000
2006-----970,000,000
2007-----1,830,000,000
2008---- 2,893,000,000
2009----876,000,000-
2010---- (-)1,382,000,000
Definition of Current Account Balance: This entry records a country's net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings from rents, interest, profits, and dividends, and net transfer payments (such as pension funds and worker remittances) to and from the rest of the world during the period specified. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.
Country Exports (Billion $)
YR ----EXPORTS
1999=1.4
2000=1.7
2002=1.6
2003=1.4
2004=1.36
2005=1.68
2006=1.61
2007=2.09
2008=2.6
2009=1,26
2010=1.49
Definition of Exports: This entry provides the total US dollar amount of merchandise exports on an f.o.b. (free on board) basis. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.
Atabey, please read my last entry.
2000= 3.8
2001 = 4.7
2002 = 5.2
2003= 5.3
2004 = 4.96
2005= 5.96
2006 = 7.16
2007 = 7.38
2008 = 9.66
2009 = 10.2
2010 = 10.56
2011 = 12.66
Definition of Debt - external: This entry gives the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=94&c=jm&l=en
From: United States, Githersburg, Maryland
Atabey, please read my last entry.
I know hermano, but some people don't know how wrong this Dready is and so when the evidence is stated, he has no where to hide. A few more and the case will be closed on El Dready. He can then retire to bed, well beaten for the night.
2004---- 2005----- 2006----- 2007---- 2008---- 2009---- 2010
146.1---- 128.7---- 133.3---- 126.5----- 109.6---- 124.4---- 123.2
Definition of Public debt: This entry records the cumulative total of all government borrowings less repayments that are denominated in a country's home currency. Public debt should not be confused with external debt, which reflects the foreign currency liabilities of both the private and public sector and must be financed out of foreign exchange earnings.
"From leading the world's economy in sugar production to bankrupt socioeconomic turmoil"
http://jamaica-guide.info/past.and.present/economy/
Population below poverty line (%)
Country 1999---- 2002---- 2003---- 2004---- 2005---- 2006---- 2007
------------ 25-------- 25----- 25-------- 42.2-------25------- 25-------- 25
PLEASE if you believe this pile of crap then you need you head looked at........even if any where near right these number are nothing to be proud of...
And Dready, do you REALLY WANT TO GET INTO A DR VERSUS JAMAICA COMPARISON?
yes. let us compare what you have done with all this money. tell me about what you have done with EDUCATION, relative to Jamaica. tell me how it has done for your electricity service. tell me what it has done for poverty. tell me what it has done for your justice system. tell me what it has done foor telecommunications. tell me what it has done for potable water. tell me about disease control. tell me how it has reduced teen pregnancy and unwanted births. tell me how it has reduced femicide. tell me how it has helped Dominican immigrants into the USA to enter at high levels of employment. tell me how it has changed the fact that the DR has the third most polluted area on earth. tell me why you are still fighting with diseases like elephantiasis, which Jamaica eradicated years ago. do you want me to provide a list of internationally recognizable accomplishments, so we can compare?
Have you any idea where Josean is?
I mean, I've been making his case against Dready the Evil who would have the poor sectors of the Dominican population denied educational opportunities BECAUSE ACCORDING TO HIS CRYSTAL 8-BALL, THEY AREN'T WORTHY; AND ARE like Horses that if taken to "vitamin rich waters would not drink."
Where is Josean, the defender of the poor downtrodden class of Dominicans long suffering the painful neglect of the government?
Written by: Atabey, 21 Nov 2011 9:11 PM
From: United States
I'm listening to Jimi so please don't disturb the moment
hey Atabey, ins´t America great? look at all these things you have been exposed to since moving there. flush toilets. electric lights. table cutlery. the mailman. now, Jimi Hendrix. i am happy for you. enjoy him, in good health. with the passage of time, you will also encounter names like the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, and many others , too numerous to mention. why, you might get lucky enough to hear it played on a high end stereo system. that will intensify the enjoyment factor for you. whatever you do, please do not come to the forum and set yourself up as an authority on music., like you have done for economics, politics, world trade and finance, and sociology. we have enough to bear, as it stands.
Have you any idea where Josean is? I mean he must be rolling given your defense of the "powers that Be"?
The downtrodden Dominicans, according to the Evil Dready are unworthy of the nectar of enlightenment and all that bull you've been expressing!
Where is Josean the defender of the Dominican Downtrodden?
Are you alright, Dread? You sound so angry all the time. Is this your normal temperament? or did something happen in the past? Your responses are so hurtful, hateful, irritable and so emotional!
Geez Louise!.. But you know, come to think of it, You must be suffering from the same condition I used to have! People would point this out to me and I was always in denial. "I'm not crazy"!, I used to claim. But then, I got help from my analyst. She prescribed a series of treatments and drugs which did me a world of good!
There's no need to be ashamed of mental illness, this is more common than previously thought. I highly recommend seeking professional help; the results are nothing short of miraculous!
I mean, look at me me now! Thank you Jesus!!
P.s. Try not to be in denial. Sooner or later, we all have to face up to our shortcomings, the sooner,the better. Take good care, my friend.
So Atebey likes Jimi Hendrix.
So do I. I've just learned to play the solos in "All Along The Watchtower" (okay, originally written by Bod Dylan, but it's Hendrix's solos that make it interesting. Dylan now does a cover of Hendrix's cover of his song) and it wasn't easy, although TAB and MIDI files help.
Does that make me a Neanderthal?
The average family in this village spend nothing on rent (they live in a house their grand-father built on inherited squatted land), no municipal rates, no taxes, free hospital care, free water, free rubbish collection, subsidized gas and very cheap subsidized electricity (which is intermittent but enough to run TVs, fridge, hair-dryers, washing-machine & dryer).
Education is totally free, except the cost of photocopies of exam results, 5 pesos each - total per year less than one bottle of beer. The school provides all books and even uniforms and breakfast or lunch free! Oh, so the meal is not so good?
If the free government education is insufficient (and it is) then why can't the parents spend a little to supplement it rather than on a new iPhone, satelliteTV or Jeepeta?
I, for one, don't know. But since you live there, and are immersed in this complex bewilderment, maybe you can tell us the answer, or is this a rhetorical question?
Surely, there has to be an answer. There's ALWAYS one. Is it cultural? political? racial?; What?
This is the one question we've been debating here for days without a solid answer.
We have our opinions but nothing that makes much sense. Admittedly, my rantings proposing education as one and only resolution to this, hasn't garnered much favor, but neither has the theory about this being a cultural phenomenon. I don't buy it.
Regardless, I would humbly request we put this to a vote. (seriously!). It may put an end to this, (before DT erases it), and give us an insight as to what is what.
Are you alright, Dread? You sound so angry all the time. Is this your normal temperament? or did something happen in the past? Your responses are so hurtful, hateful, irritable and so emotional!
Geez Louise!.. But you know, come to think of it, You must be suffering from the same condition I used to have!
my only condition is that i do not suffer fools gladly. do you understand my motivations now?
!Que maltito chivo viejo! The Dominican pauperimos deserve the lack of educational opportunities because they don't -according to the Evil Dready-stage massive demonstrations and use violence to demand greater services!
What a defender of the poor this pseudo-socialist blah blah Jamaican!
anyway Josean will shortly be making his statement regarding El Evil's theory. Can't wait.
From: United States
Well RonEvane, look on the bright side: we now have Josean who is posting and will surely make his point regarding Dready's dreadful theory of lower class Dominicans, and Dominicans in general, NOT WANTING TO DRINK THE Nectar of Enlightenment!
well, i cannot speak for everyone, but i can surely say that you are one low class Dominican who did not drink the nectar of enlightenment.
Excuse me, but I'm feeling neglected by you.
You attack Dready for saying Dominicans are not interested in education, regardless of whether the government spend enough on it or not.
I am saying the same thing - how about some flack for me!
See you soon......
HA keep you thanks giving and place it where the sun don't shine... this is a DR site not US but you must of been there a while and had forgotten that the rest of the world don't give a S%$t about the day the American Indians saved the stupid settlers and dumb ass pilgrims from staving...
There are more than enough schools and teachers for a country this size.
The problem is too many kids!
Dominicans that can barely feed, clothe and house themselves think is a right, even a Catholic duty, to go on having kids they can't afford, and expect the taxpayer to educate, feed and clothe them.
The IMF has suggested that Jamaica has the fourth-highest poverty rate at 43.1 per cent when compared with 23 regional neighbours, according to the latest Regional Economic Outlook report Western Hemisphere: Shifting Winds, New Policy Challenges." [Check page 71 of the IMF report]
Dready 43.1%!!!!!!!
For the record the Poverty measurement in Dominican Republic came in at 16.4!
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/reo/2011/whd/eng/pdf/wreo1011.pdf
SEDLAC is the source of information. Poverty = share of pop earning less than 2.50 dollars per day.
Go change your diapers Dready.
That is kinda real bad, Man.
Otra pela al vievo chivo!
Stillhere keep on serving your daily portion of jerky to the BAtty Man. :) Vende Patria y estúpido pendejo.
Anyone that wants to see where Jamaica and the Dominican Republic rank should just take a look at page 71 of the IMF report.
Why, Mr. Roy?... Isn't it obvious? Don't you think the poor education they had, to begin with, has something to do in that decision? I'm guessing half (parents), don't appreciate the value of schooling. The other half does, but can't afford private school. This is why I rant about education, but y'all wanna bunch 'em all in the same potato sack! You can't say we'd ALL rather buy a TV and forgo our children's welfare.
Mr. Roy, apparently, you're residing in a ghetto neighborhood to be getting this kind of feed-back all the time. I'm guessing, you're really only seeing half of what goes on in DR, as obviously, most posters here do. Our creator gave us stereo-vision, not just one eye. Use them both!
Regardless I have traveled extensively and I do not think my neighborhood is very different from most of this country.
I do not agree with the idea that parents need to be educated to appreciate the need to educate their children. I have seen many uneducated migrant families in Australia that are very poor. Yet they work hard, not for the material status-symbols that poor Dominicans covert so much, but to enable them to give their children the education that they could not have.
Yes, you may have stereo vision, but your blind-faith in your imaginary creator, requires you to not use it. As an Atheist, I do not suffer from the same impediment.
Ron.. yes to say "all " Dominican don't care about the education of their kids is not right... the ones that do seem to of had some better eduction than most and can see a better life for their child if given the chance through a good education.. It seem to me that to "some" the future and the welfare of the country (the children) is not as important as a new TV or Jeepeta. That the small amount of money their kids bring back from cleaning shoes or windscreens is a lot to them and can mean the difference between no food and something on the table.. So some parents will give up everything to get their child an eduction and sacrifice the here and now but not as many as there should be by the looks of this country...
HA what about me ..I think your a turd as well Atabey
well, i beg to differ. that is an insult to turds. they serve a useful purpose in life.
I'm not sure how long you've been on DT, but The Dready and I have been trading comparisons for over a year now. It strated when I posted an article about Colombia being interested in DR's tourism model. The Dready went nuts! and stated that DR's model was a copy of his Jamaica. Go and see the posts, if you have doubts. Dready is full of love-hate regarding DR. He likes the long legs, ?, and the added surplus value his command of English affords him when in DR, but at the same time has a hard time accepting that this Spanish speaking nation has actually superseded his own! Que horrible!
As for the be-heading of women. I merely pointed out that in his own nation, just about a week prior to the horrible event in DR, several women had been be-headed! And so I questioned why Dready would carry on about DR when in his own native land things were even worse!
I would have expected a person of his age and "maturity" to give us a balanced take on matters.
EDUCATION
HEALTH CARE
INFANT MORTALITY
UNEMPLOYMENT
NUMBER OF PEOPLE LIVING BELOW THE POVERTY LINE
INCOME DISTRIBUTION
DISEASE ERADICATION
TOXIC POLLUTION
those are some of the things which indicate how a country is doing. not some nebulous figure, which, in the case of Atabey, he does not understand. he does not even know the difference between GDP and GNP.
Roy says: "Yes, you may have stereo vision, but your blind-faith in your imaginary creator, requires you to not use it. As an Atheist, I do not suffer from the same impediment"
Roy, I'm an atheist as well. My comment is simply an allegory on common belief. Not to be taken at face value.
What I meant was that, sometimes, because of circumstances and/or prejudices, we see things in tunnel vision. Mostly always, things are not as they seem to be. This world isn't black or white, the spectrum is rich in contrast, there to show us what things are really like.
At times, we see what we are immediately exposed to, without bothering to look beyond the fence. We must not judge before we look on the other side.
Yes, agree with you that many are myopic. Even so, these qualities do not preclude us from missing out on the realities of life. One needs not be an "aristocrat" to be in a different school of thought. Half of us, do not conform to this forum's running consensus. We ain't so bad
"we have Bob Marley, you do not."
Oh yeah? well, we have ......er....., Who the hell do we have?
It really rubs you the wrong way that this Spanish speaking land of quarreling people, beset with so much historical disturbance and inter-island issues-having to address its development while having as its neighbor the poorest member of the Western Hemisphere! No small task, Dready.
While his Jamaica has coughed up a huge advantage that saw it clear of DR by several thousands of dollars per capita during the 1960s and 1970s!
Jamaica should be along side Barbados and Bahamas!! Sadly, its had terrible leadership during these past 30-40 years and the numbers reflect the reality of the land.
Over to you Dready.
Jamaica may have Bob Marley, but we've got Avetura!
A Bachata equivalent to Scotland's Bay City Rollers, or England's Spice Girls
(sorry, I can't think a more recent act that's so boring and bland.)
Oh I forgot, Aventura is an American group - maybe some Dominican blood, and one was actually born here (but left as a kid).
Yeah, you are right.
It really rubs you the wrong way that this Spanish speaking land of quarreling people, beset with so much historical disturbance and inter-island issues-having to address its development while having as its neighbor the poorest member of the Western Hemisphere! No small task, Dready.
While his Jamaica has coughed up a huge advantage that saw it clear of DR by several thousands of dollars per capita during the 1960s and 1970s!
Jamaica should be along side Barbados and Bahamas!! Sadly, its had terrible leadership during these past 30-40 years and the numbers reflect the reality of the land.
Over to you Dready.
terrible leadership, he says. maybe you could teach us how to run a country. send Hipolito to give us lessons.
And do you not acknowledge that Jamaica's true status today should be somewhere near Barbados and the Bahamas? Heck, even close to PR at 16K per capita would be a great accomplishment.
From: United States
Yes, The Hippo was bad, but it isn't like you guys have had stellar leadership either. I mean, what then do you attribute such lousy economic returns for such a long period?
see, Atabey, when you have a President such as Mejia in your history, you should not bring up the question of other people´s leaders. besides, economic downturns are more complicated than just bad leadership. i mean, you should know that, given the fact that you have an undergraduate degree in economics.
WOW, Dready. I as a Dominican can not bring up some other nation's political ineptitude, but You from Jamaica may state Dominican ones!
Again, where is the balance Dready? That's what get's you into all sorts of troubles here: you are not balanced in your assessments. Like the case of the be-headings. Why didn't you take the astute and seasoned veteran posture and reason out the tragedy around a pan-regional formulation? Why dredge into a DR centric take? I expected better from you.
let us get the thread, and show me ONE remark i made , which includes ANY reference to Dominicans. you can run, but you cannot hide. ah, yes, the same thread in which you went back and changed something you said AFTER the matter had been debated. as i said, you are a liar, a fabricator, a misrepresenter, and just basic pond scum. find the reference...IDARE YOU!
Written by: dreadlocks, 3 Aug 2011 1:32 PM
From: United States
Juango states
This is NOT greed! This is sick, demented activity.
anyone who thinks this is greed motivated needs to have a talk with their psychiatrist. these are demented, amoral, unprincipled animals, who have no business being in schoolrooms. i think i have heard it all. this is savagery to the nth degree. this is not even an act which is remotely human in its nature. i better stop.
show me where anything i say in that sentence makes any reference to ANY COUNTRY.
you responded by calling my attention to beheadings in Jamaica. very adult, i must say. then, later in the proceedings, you altered the original thread, by editing your comments. very lowlife, but par for the course for you.
The fact that you would take this tragedy and MANIFEST SUCH OUTRAGE WHEN IN FACT IN YOUR OWN HOMELAND OF JAMAICA, LESS THAN A WEEK FROM THIS TRAGIC EVENT, SEVERAL WOMEN HAD BEEN BE-HEADED IS THE ISSUE DREADY!
You hyperbolize the horrendous act in DR without taking into account that such inhuman practices were ALSO occurring in your own neck of the woods. That's my point.
If you had said: "These inhuman acts are deplorable and are an outrage to societal norms. Sadly they represent a regional degradation as my own homeland of Jamaica can attest."
That would have been an astute and reasonable dispensation of the matter by a wise and prudent man. But we found out otherwise, Dready.
The DR will need a major overhaul of the education system to maximize learning time. Technology can help but no pain no gain if you don't put the time into your studies. But everyone knows this including the nation's leadership.
Your daughter gets 5 hours at government school per day? That's more than most get. The reality is in the Dominican Republic, if you don't send her to a private school, then you must supplement her education at home. Not easy if all the kids around just play, fight and watch TV.
Not easy if all the kids around just play, fight and watch TV.
funny...i thought it was their parents who did that.
"Empty vessels make the most noise."
Bachata is brain-dead music
Not sure if Mirangue is music at all
Hi-Hop definitely isn't
Volume is inversely proportional to the musical content.
"Another thing I noticed in the DR is that neighbors play music too loud the whole day."
Is that right? Which city, and which part of the city were you in? Not all neighbours or neighbourhoods are alike.
" I was taking some online class when I visited the DR and I had to drop the class because I could not study with so much noise every where.
Everywhere?.. DR isn't just one place. It is a large country. It's as big as Vermont and New Hampshire, combined!
Sorry, but I'm with ZonaDominicana on this one - noise (music to the tone-deaf) is almost inescapable no-matter where you go in this big(?) country.
"Volume is inversely proportional to the musical content."
I beg to differ;.... Volume is inversely proportional to the degree of consideration one has for his neighbour. And this has a direct correlation on one's level of formal and maternal/paternal education.
Most Dominicans have neither.
"big(?) country."
Well, it ain't Australia, but it's big enough so that some of us can escape the low class neighbourhoods and the noise inherent to them.
boom boom boom ... this is not music it is the sound of artillery ... does the DR have an artillery unit?
I beg to differ;.... Volume is inversely proportional to the degree of consideration one has for his neighbour. And this has a direct correlation on one's level of formal and maternal/paternal education.
Most Dominicans have neither
the sad thing is that studies have been conducted, which confirm the adverse effects of noise upon learning, and social activities. let me make the preemptive disclaimer that i am speaking in generalities, and realize that there are high class, urbane, civilized Dominicans, who abhor the acoustic vices to which i refer. however, Dominicans, in general, are the loudest people i have met so far. they love noise. that is why they remove the baffles from the mufflers of motorcycles, which they ride at breakneck speed at 2am, awakening everyone within earshot. it is a country which suffers from both acute, and chronic, noise. people shout at each other, in conversation, even if they are a foot apart.
I don't think you will suffer sleep-deprivation if your 8-hour sleep is disrupted by a good woman for a 6-minute activity.
But the activity is proven to provide better and deeper sleep. ;)
From: United States
I have more to give than 6 minutes! Perhaps you confuse me with el chivo viejo? lol
people who brag about their prowess, are, in the main, the most feeble of performers. it is called ¨compensation¨. any 1st year psychology student will attest to that reality.
Another concrete example of Lie-onel's "love" for education and the children of the republic:
"Education is owed more than 312 billion pesos in 13 years"
"SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic.-To date education is owed 312 billion pesos not invested in this sector since the General Education Act, law 66-97, went into effect on February 4, 1997 to date."
"This means that it was given to education was 40.23% and is due 59.77% from 2008, 2009 and 2010."
"These figures explain why education in our country is so disastrous," said Nelson Suárez, Juan Montalvo Center and researcher and budget analyst.
Isn't 312 billion pesos roughly the same figure that was stolen from the children of DR to build Lie-onel's magic re-election Choo- Choo Train aka the METRO?
Dread, how Billie Holiday sang it, “Romance without Finance is Nuisance? “
http://www.microsofttranslator.co....millones-de-pesos-en-13-anos.html
From: United States
Another concrete example of Lie-onel's "love" for education and the children of the republic:
"Education is owed more than 312 billion pesos in 13 years"
And guess what Josean? If you agree with Dready, it's NOT about spending money on education!
From: United States
As a Batty boy I guess you get very compensated Dready. :)
i see where it is time to ip the dosage on your medications. besides, your congenital, apparently indomitable dishonesty sems to be uncontrollable. nowhere did i say that money was not needed. i stated, and i state again, that it will take more than money to fix the malaise. we ventilated it, ad nauseum, and you ran away when several posters were stating the same opionions that i was. besides, there are two seperate issues, here. sit tight, because this is going to be really complex, especially since your intellectual tools are not too sharp. the 4% is mandated, by the Constitution. whether or not it will fix matters is not the issue. the Chief Executive has a duty to uphold the Constitution. in the USA , failure to do so could lead to impeachment. here, nothing happens. get the point? didn't think you would, but i had to try, anyway.
Poor Atabey continues trying to create conflict were it does not exist, while he ignores the robbery being committed against this generation of Dominican children well as the next!
From: United States
Poor Atabey continues trying to create conflict were it does not exist, while he ignores the robbery being committed against this generation of Dominican children well as the next!
that is because poor Atabey has an IQ which is smaller than his shoe size. he never passed closer than a mile to anything above grade school, but claims to have a masters degree in history, and a bachelors in economics, er, make that busines, er, make that who knows. i bet the dunce does not know the year Columbus landed here.