From: Dominican Republic
13% is not correct it is more like 39% of Dominicans are illiterate.
Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Jan 2012 8:59 AM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
Thank you for your concern and contribution for west side Mr. President, you brown nosing a-hole.
From: United States
But yet our inept and stupid president builds universities in a foreign land that can house 10,000 students.
From: Dominican Republic, Puerto Plata
Hernandez
...with borrowed money!!
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 9:07 AM
From: United States, NYC
"69% of those form 20 to 29 didn’t complete the middle level,"
Again, the DR needs to adopt a Universal Education system paid for by a substantial increase in educational financing that addresses this historical problem. There is no getting away from facing the enormity and seriousness of this perennial problem. Unless addressed it has and will continue to cost the nation via much lower human productivity and creative output during their life time. And a continuation of many of the other social and cultural deficiencies we all want corrected in DR would result.
You cannot create a modern and developed society with so many of your people illiterate and under-educated. If a smaller nation like Costa Rica has achieved far better results, spending a higher % of their GDP on education, we can too.
Discontinue subsidies to energy moochers, get that 60% of the economy that is not formalized paying taxes and instead subsidize K-12 educational opportunities.
From: United States
some time ago, i asked Atabey to do a simple chore. he keeps bleating, unrelievedly, about the need for the 4% of GDP for the education thrust. so, a asked him to put a face on the number. tell us, in simple dollar equivalent terms, what 4% represents as expenditure per student. to date, he has not responded. that leads me to two conclusions.
1...he is too lazy to involve himself in the simple mental gymnastics needed to arrive at the figure
2...he does not know the method to use to get him there.
personally, i am disposed to believe it is a case of both. trhat having been said, let us hypothesize that the figure is 1000 dollars per student, per budget. i am using that number for economy of calculation. is that sufficient to make any significant difference? what if it is too extravagant? let us remember the concept of competing interests, in a situation of finite funds. how does it stack up with his new hobby horse, Costa Rica? is it more than theirs, or is it less?
From: United States
next, in terms of purchasing power parity, what does it buy, in compared to what their 1000 dollars buys? what are the costs of the factor inputs? are school supplies cheaper there, or more expensive? what are teachers' salaries like there, compared to here?finally, going forward from this point, what is the state of storehouse of inventory of assets in each country? do they already have sufficient capital assets on hand, allowing them to devote the bulk of the expenditure on current expenditure, which produces far greater marginal returns to investment?
all the above issues address the quantitative dimensions of the education question, and not the QUALITATIVE side of the equation. putting asses in seats is not the issue. the children who fared so dismally in thescholastic achievement testing ARE IN SCHOOL. the fact that they fared so poorly is due to the content of what they are, or, are not,learning. the question is whether or not 5%, 8% ,20%, or 50% can fix that.
Written by: josean, 13 Jan 2012 10:14 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Written by: josean, 13 Jan 2012 10:18 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Moved so you will not have to strain your eyes!
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 11:58 AM
From: United States, NYC
'all the above issues address the quantitative dimensions of the education question, and not the QUALITATIVE side of the equation. putting asses in seats is not the issue. the children who fared so dismally in thescholastic achievement testing ARE IN SCHOOL. the fact that they fared so poorly is due to the content of what they are, or, are not,learning. the question is whether or not 5%, 8% ,20%, or 50% can fix that."- Dread
What will NEVER solve the problem is to NOT SPEND funds on education.
Dready, you say that these stats are from those children IN SCHOOL. My question: what do you imagine the stats say for those tens of thousands of children THAT AREN'T IN SCHOOL?
Please tell us what country has ever solved its illiteracy by spending 2% OR LESS of GDP in history?
"Education spending is the largest among all government expenditures in Asia, accounting
for 20 percent. It is not surprising that Asia has the highest quality of human capital among
regions."
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 11:59 AM
From: United States, NYC
Dready,
How about answering the question for a change:
The data was NOT divided into national results. And that's my point! It stated that LATIN AMERICA! as a region witnessed this result. Now if you happen to have the data for the DR, please provide it or find another theory.
Again, WHERE IS THE DATA FOR THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC?
NOT THE REGION, THE NATION!
Gotcha!
Josean, listen and stay quiet, you might learn something.
This is how you take down an opponent's argument: show people he's trying to pull wool over their eyes. Dready thinks people are too lazy to actually read the study and UNDERSTAND the results!
So Dready, where is the data for the DR? You know, the one that states-ACCORDING TO YOU-that additional spending on education is negatively correlated with economic growth in DR?
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 12:28 PM
From: United States, NYC
Dread,
"Results are shown in Table 6. Regression 1 (R1) reports results by region when structural
adjustment variables SA,t are excluded, while regression 2 (R2) reports those with SA,t included.
The labor and capital coefficients are positive and statistically significant for all regions. For
government expenditures on agriculture, coefficients are positive and statistically significant in
Africa and Asia. For Latin America, the coefficient is insignificant although positive. For
education expenditure, the coefficients are positive and statistically significant only in Asia.
This indicates that continued education investment in Asia will contribute greatly to GDP growth.
Coefficients for Africa and Latin America are negative." [page 22,
http://www.ifpri.org/sites/defaul....s/divs/eptd/dp/papers/eptdp99.pdf]
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 12:46 PM
From: United States, NYC
Dread said:
"go read some text, and learn something , for a change. read the following
Government Spending in Developing Countries..Trends, Causes, and Consequences. it is a working paper, based on cross country regressions in Asia, Africa, and Latin America. let me warn you that it has several passages of boring calculus. make that econometric modelling. the finding is that only in Asia do the coefficients have a positive correlation. in Africa, and Latin America, they are NEGATIVE. one country, to which i alluded , is Nigeria, which has spent tremendous amounts on education, with nothing to show for it. maybe you would care to opine as to why this will be different in the DR?"
Dready, The DT audience await your response or will you go hide in your cave?
From: Dominican Republic
[ policy’s reference is from the 2002 census] so this really has some up to date numbers then... If they are using info from 2002 then where could you find up to date numbers...as all the new ones wont be referenced till 2022....
Written by: xwill7, 13 Jan 2012 1:37 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
Josean & danny, all you guys need to know is how to read a few words:
cerveza, taxi, fiesta, cabana, disco, and gallera
From: Dominican Republic
education starts at birth and finishes when you die... so the right start, the right role models are the most important things to a good education.. Role models...... lets look at role models of the Dominican childern.....mmmmmm....
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
If the figure is correct ,,it is an outstanding result and one that the DR can be proud of ....it shows we have not got so far to go ..and also shows that Dominicans are much more intelligent than many writers here suggest .
From: Dominican Republic
Does anyone know what is the public to priavte school student ratio?
Written by: josean, 13 Jan 2012 4:32 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Written by: josean, 13 Jan 2012 4:33 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
PS
The rate of functional literacy is probably another 50 to 60% in a conservative guesstimate;myself included!
From: United States
says Atabey
This indicates that continued education investment in Asia will contribute greatly to GDP growth.
Coefficients for Africa and Latin America are negative." [page 22,
do you know what it means, in statistics, when they say that the coefficients are negative? it means that there seems to be no correlation between expenditure, and positive externalities. that is my argument. i do not need you to help me make it by making remarks you do not understand.
From: United States
Again, WHERE IS THE DATA FOR THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC?
NOT THE REGION, THE NATION!
regression analysis is done for a group of countries, not individual ones. that is why it is called ¨cross country regression¨. nobody stated that the figures for the Dominican Republic will jive with the regression. there are some samples which will deviate from the mean. however, since we do not have the figures, we cannot speculate, either way. i am not saying that the correlations will be negative. my statement is that the there is no CAUSATIVE correlation between expenditure and positive results. in some instances, it is positive, in others it is not. why do i bother? it is too late in the day for you to understand elementary statistics, anyway.
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Jan 2012 4:55 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Here’s what I think will work to resolve DR’s educational stagnation:
As we all know, money is at the root of all good. We must have money to provide education. But how or where do we get this money? I have a few ideas:
(1) Establish a non-profit, national lottery for the sole purpose of amassing funds for the repair of existing schools, building new ones and attracting qualified teaching staff.
(2) Hosting retired, degreed teachers from all over the world to come do a “labor of love” in DR. They will be provided with suitable accommodations, safe food and a small spending stipend.
(3) Gently convince the hospitality industry operating here, to hold sweepstakes in other nations, for all-inclusive free stays in DR… All moneys will go to the “Educateour littleones.com.do”
(4) These firms can boast “We’ve done our part for our children” and have the added support of many an NGO and other charitable organizations. It’ll be a classy symbiotic relationship!..More..
From: United States
says the low information imbecile, Atabey
Dready, The DT audience await your response or will you go hide in your cave?
i will NEVER run away from a question that you ask. NEVER. you must be thinking of yourself. maybe i should post a list of all the questions i asked you, which you never answered. starting with the ones THIS WEEK.. you think this is some game, in which you can outfence me. that is only in your mind, since the readership knows who has some idea of the subject matter, and who is just an irritant, posing as being knowledgeable. i asked you to tell me how much 4% of GDP translates into actual spending per student, and you have not even hinted that you wish to answer. then you have the nerve to think that i am afraid of questions from YOU? the guy who has a BBA, that had no statistics courses? i don´t think so.
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Jan 2012 5:05 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
(5) Once the government sees that people are taking matters into their own hands, it will want to be part of this rebuilding… Politicians, (as we all know), will sway with the breeze. They’ll want to take credit for all the good that’s already happening…Let them, who cares.
(6) The govt will only be too happy to please and go with the flow. We’ll demand an eight hour curriculum, a school breakfast and lunch, many sports program, (exercise body and mind), and finally, much better pay for native, qualified teachers, etc…. and we’ll get it!
Note:
It is of absolute importance to keep the religious fanatics out of this equation. They’ll want to impose their skewed beliefs and prevent us from teaching the sciences and sex education. It is extremely important to weight the consequences of unwanted pregnancies and STD’s!
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Jan 2012 5:07 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
That said. I don’t want to hear the morons in this forum, blabber their retarded BS about corruption and Lie-onel! If you have nothing constructive to add or have a better idea to add or change, stay the fluke out!!
Written by: antonio1, 13 Jan 2012 5:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Av Santa Rosa, La Romana
Piss off. If you cannot answer Ron argument with a solid answer, stay the Fck quite…..didn’t your parent teach you that…
Written by: RoyStone, 13 Jan 2012 5:49 PM
From: Australia
Ron, as Josean is explaining, it is against the law of this country to "keep the religious fanatics out of this equation."
That's what the 1954 Concordat is about. Follow Josean's link for a copy. It's in Spanish and for ignoramuses like me who don't know Spanish, it Google-translates very well - including the prayer at the end which is in Latin. This Concordat should be compulsory reading for all Dominicans, especially currently-practicing Catholics.
I wonder how many Dominicans in 1954 knew Latin, or had access to Google-translate.
Still you don't need to understand what the priest is mumbling - just repeat it, put you tithe in the plate, attend confession and eternity in heaven with Jesus is yours.
Written by: antonio1, 13 Jan 2012 5:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Av Santa Rosa, La Romana
Roy, when the F-ck did you became Josean? Or are you part of the multiple username hire by DT to keep us occupy…..
Written by: RoyStone, 13 Jan 2012 6:19 PM
From: Australia
antonio1,
You many not have noticed, but I often disagree with Josean, and have even taken him to task at times. However he brings a lot of interesting information to this site. For example, the 1954 Concordat is very relevant and I was not aware of it until he led me to it.
I only wish he'd give us smaller things to read as I have a short attention-span.
Now if you are looking for "something to keep you occupied", maybe you an do a little job for me?
It involves sex and travel.
Interested?
Good.
then Fu(k off!
Written by: RoyStone, 13 Jan 2012 6:25 PM
From: Australia
Stillhere you are right.
Many of the kids are doomed long before their 1st day at school.
The 3 most important things are 1) attitude, 2) attitude and 3) attitude.
After those come opportunity, money, facilities, etc.
Written by: antonio1, 13 Jan 2012 6:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Av Santa Rosa, La Romana
Your factual bases are extremely inept or nearly identical to josean, why is that significant? Join the rest of the thinking world.
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Jan 2012 7:21 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Error
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 7:21 PM
From: United States, NYC
WHERE IS THE DATA FOR THE DR?
NOT THE REGION, THE NATION!
regression analysis is done for a group of countries, not individual ones. that is why it is called ¨cross country regression¨. nobody stated that the figures for the Dominican Republic will jive with the regression. there are some samples which will deviate from the mean. however, since we do not have the figures, we cannot speculate, either way. i am not saying that the correlations will be negative. my statement is that the there is no CAUSATIVE correlation between expenditure and positive results. in some instances, it is positive, in others it is not. why do i bother? it is too late in the day for you to understand elementary statistics, anyway."-Dread
Dready,
You are in total denial. You USED a Regional result to argue for a specific, the Dominican Republic, actor. Don't you see the fallacy in that?
We weren't arguing regional results idiot, but for one specific nation: the Dominican Republic!
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 7:25 PM
From: United States, NYC
Produce the data that states that the additional educational spending will have NO NOTICEABLE POSITIVE RESULT FOR THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC!
If you can't, then look for another study because this one doesn't provide ANY NATION SPECIFIC COUNTRY DATA ONLY REGIONAL ONES!
Don't hide, produce the specific Dominican data.
-----------
Josean,
Please allow the adults some space. Listen and be quiet.
Written by: josean, 13 Jan 2012 7:26 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Things seem to be clearing up!
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 7:33 PM
From: United States, NYC
"nobody stated that the figures for the Dominican Republic will jive with the regression. there are some samples which will deviate from the mean. however, since we do not have the figures, we cannot speculate, either way. i am not saying that the correlations will be negative. my statement is that the there is no CAUSATIVE correlation between expenditure and positive results. in some instances, it is positive, in others it is not." - Dread
"No one stated that the figures for the Dominican republic will jive with the regression."
Hahahaha!
You are an idiot Dread! Take a look at our argument and check out this quote:
"the finding is that only in Asia do the coefficients have a positive correlation. in Africa, and Latin America, they are NEGATIVE. one country, to which i alluded , is Nigeria, which has spent tremendous amounts on education, with nothing to show for it. maybe you would care to opine as to why this will be different in the DR?"
Now ask yourself: why did you
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 7:35 PM
From: United States, NYC
Why did YOU DREAD post this quote?
Why to add an academic source to back up YOUR position that additional spending on education IN THE DR WOULD NOT PRODUCE POSITIVE ECONOMIC RETURNS!!! Only in Asia is additional educational funding positively correlated with economic growth. In Latin America and in Africa they are not.
That's what you were trying to establish, but you believed that no one would bother to read and understand the academic study. Perhaps you were thinking of Josean?
Perhaps you missed this part of the study you tried to pass off as supporting your proposition:
"Education spending is the largest among all government expenditures in Asia, accounting
for 20 percent. It is not surprising that Asia has the highest quality of human capital among
regions."
Show us at DT a study that supports YOUR THEORY that additional educational spending IN DR, will be negatively correlated with economic growth.
That was and continues to elude your idiotic musings.
Written by: josean, 13 Jan 2012 8:02 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Roy,
What many of my countrymen/woman fail to understand or don’t want to understand is that we have very serious and fundamental structural problems in our society inherited from our colonial, neocolonial and dictatorial history that prevent any type of profound reform from occurring unless those impediments are done away with; and in the case of education from a “Medieval heritage” via the Concordat of 1954.
Many well intention people have tried, and many good ideas have been elaborated, including by many of the posters here at DT, such as Ron’s, however the superstructure of corruption and all it negative sub derivatives impede them from taking hold or seriously being given an opportunity.
It’s like trying to rehab a house when the fundamental structural integrity is non- existent or beyond repair. When you come to that realization and understanding you have to tear it down and start anew.
Continued:
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Jan 2012 8:18 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
You're wrong, Mr. Roy.
The three most important things are: Money, money and more money.
Opportunities can be created and facilities can be repaired, or built.
A school can be much more than a building. It can be a community center where parents can meet to plan for a better neighborhood, A political arena to discuss ways to improve the local conditions, a place where decent folks can interact and unite, etc.
After that, attitudes change with what facilities have to offer. i,e.
The teaching caliber, sports; for those who love to play, a sure meal for neglected children, a safe, fun place to be instead of the street corner, etc.
For me, there's nothing more satisfying than meeting up with folks who know a hell of a lot more than I do. Here in Maryland, I find then in after-school events, or in functions programmed by the local library.
In DR, there are no such places....pity!
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 8:29 PM
From: United States, NYC
Josean,
"When you come to that realization and understanding you have to tear it down and start anew."
Advocating Revolution! And do we have to wonder the leaning of this revolution to come? "Superstructure" Well, I guess with a term like that we all understand your vision.
Earth to Josean, Turning Commies ain't going to help the people of DR.
Written by: Belly, 13 Jan 2012 8:32 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
So wait a minute the literacy rate was 89% and now is 87%. way to go Leonel. I wonder if Leonel knows literacy rate is suppose to go up NOT down.
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 8:39 PM
From: United States, NYC
BTW, on the detrimental effects of Trujillo's regime to our education, I support you Josean.
Yes, there were some schools constructed and some people received good education. BUT, the overwhelming number of Dominicans remained ill-housed, and ill-educated. Trujillo never envisioned a grand Universally educated populace. A cadet of well educated subordinates to help him administer and organize the republic for his interests YES.
As for the multitude in the rural areas of the nation, the ones that streamed down from the hills and mountains after his assassination in 1961 and created the massive barrios in Santo Domingo and other cities, these people were largely neglected in their educational advancement. Balaguer followed pretty much the same script with a bit more attention. But both leaders NEVER created a universal system of education. Juan Bosch did have this vision but never was allowed the opportunity to advance it.
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Jan 2012 8:46 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Roy.
I don't give a rat's ass about what the Concordat, or any other relic of our past has to say.! No one or anything can dictate our future!..We're free to choose!
I'm talking about a grass-roots' movement to improve our children's life. One borne out of hard work and desire to see this out as a success, without government funds or interference.
I'm talking about grabbing our own reins, and leading our horse in on a path to educational victory.
When the politicos here can't or won't respond to our needs and basic necessities, it is time to stop complaining and start relying on ourselves.
I know the naysayers will try to defeat any and all effort to create an idea for improvement, but I don't give a shit about them. The reason we're in such dire straits, is because there are way too many of them in our nation and in this forum!!...Pessimists, eat your own vomit!
Written by: josean, 13 Jan 2012 9:00 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"I don't give a rat's ass about what the Concordat, or any other relic of our past has to say.! No one or anything can dictate our future!..We're free to choose!"
Roy or Atabey,
I will let you guys take a swing at the 35 mile per hour soft pitch right over the plate; even Ray Charles can hit that one out of the park!
Now please I ask you to take easy on him because around this time of night is when he apparently begins to hit the Bong heavily so the incoherence will begin to increase geometrically as the night goes on!
From: United States
haitian josean attacking DR's illiterate population? that's funny !!
Written by: Belly, 13 Jan 2012 10:18 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
ZonaApache
You may not like Josean but the truth simply cannot be hidden. Not everybody has a rosie picture of the future of our republic. Literacy rate has just DROPPED 2% in 2010. That's a sign of not moving forward but going backwards.
Written by: RonEvane, 13 Jan 2012 10:50 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Ms/Mr. Belly
{"You may not like Josean but the truth simply cannot be hidden. Not everybody has a rosie picture of the future of our republic."}
"The truth" is all too obvious to most of us. We don't need anyone to ram it down our throat.
What we need, is to try and find solutions to the myriad problems facing our nation today.
We certainly don't need an obsessive/compulsive pessimist telling us it's gonna get worse, without suggesting even a hint of what can be done to alleviate whatever problems there are!
It's like someone constantly saying you're fat and ugly and not clue us in on what can be done to make it less so. It gets very tiring, and after a while, you take it as mockery and want to shoot the MF!!
Don't showcase my problems.! If you really like me, you'll find ways to suggest improvements...!
Written by: RoyStone, 14 Jan 2012 8:04 AM
From: Australia
RonEvane,
I'm not sure if the "truth" is that obvious to most of us. It certainly isn't obvious to the general public. I observe people's behavior as if there s no tomorrow - and maybe they're right.
The general acceptance of the appalling state of education in this country is confirmation of my point. The problem will not be addressed until there is widespread acceptance that there is one, and that real sacrifices must be made to fix it.
From: Dominican Republic
Now now gents, lets stay civil, shall we?
Happy New Year to all. I see that the conversations are as heated as usual.
Has anyone ever heard back from Double zeros? I think we chased him off into oblivion!
However,
Sad stats for the DR! But, I have been in much worse places in the world, and I still think there is potential as soon as corruption hits the highway. According to present polls, this may be a while yet.
Cheers dudes!
Written by: RonEvane, 14 Jan 2012 8:47 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
This is why only knowledge can save it and bring it up to world standards. But those in power either don't honestly know what an important part education plays in a nation's very survival, and future prosperity, or,.... the powers that be, are fully aware of the situation and decided that maintaining the status is much easier and cheaper than the alternative and advantageous to securing their superior strata.
This is why our children's education is too important to be left exclusively up to government to grow and expand exponentially. I will do my part to do this, (however small), when migrating back to my dear, DR.
Written by: RonEvane, 14 Jan 2012 8:47 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"The truth" of the matter is, that DR's population at large, is oblivious to the state of our nation as a whole. A person can not know something he has not been exposed to, or taught about.
Most people there worry about how they're gonna make through the day, to give much thought to anything else.
You and most everyone here have a fairly good idea as to the sorry conditions prevalent in this nation today. I can't say the same for most other people who can't see the full scope of what goes on there and how the situation can improve dramatically if only they knew any better.
The "truth" is that most Dominicans don't know what the truth really is, and this is what it's all about...sad.
From: United States
Show us at DT a study that supports YOUR THEORY that additional educational spending IN DR, will be negatively correlated with economic growth.
show me where is said it would be. this is the reason why i do not see any point arguing with you,because you are just too plain dumb to folow a simple argument. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID IT WOULD BE NEGATIVE IN THE DR CASE, or shut up! maybe , if you realy went to school, instead of just saying that you did, you could make some occasional sense
Written by: josean, 14 Jan 2012 9:45 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"haitian josean attacking DR's illiterate population? that's funny !!
ZonaApache,
For someone who's Join Date: is 10 January 2011, 1:44 PM:
What’s really funny is that you write with the vernacular and in the style of the more seasoned multi-name user xenophobes and racist here on DT!
That’s quite interesting since although you’re joining Date is: 10 January 2011, 1:44 PM you appear with this posting almost two months earlier:
"Written by: ZonaApache, 26 Nov 2011 10:28 AM
From: United States
amen "
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....ral-America-against-shark-finningFrom: Dominican Republic
Alah akbar Josean!
From: United States
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2012 8:29 PM
From: United States
Josean,
"When you come to that realization and understanding you have to tear it down and start anew."
Advocating Revolution! And do we have to wonder the leaning of this revolution to come? "Superstructure" Well, I guess with a term like that we all understand your vision.
Atabey, are you in training for the defense of your heavyweight title of World's Dumbest Creature?
From: United States
“The reason Latin America is lagging behind is because we are obsessed with the past, while other countries are looking towards the future,” Oppenheimer said.
In characteristically wry and entertaining style, Oppenheimer pulled out a Singapore dollar to emphasize his point. On the back of the bill, the illustration included a university, students, and a classroom. At the bottom of the bill was written “education.”
“In Latin America, our bills have images of our past, such as farmers and past presidents and historical figures,” he said. “In other countries, the mindset doesn’t look at the past, it looks ahead.”
From: United States
see the important word in the passage, Atabey? MINDSET. look it up in the dictionary.
From: United States, NJ
dread,
I would go as far as doubling that amount to US$2,000 per students per year.When lunch is thrown in administered by a professional nutrisionist. No one can learn on an empty stomach. The State should provide lunch for kids up to the 8th grade. same as NYC did for us up to the 8th grade ,from 1952 on up to 1975,then they went broke, but the politicians all got an increase in salary,as well as inferior teachers, when they came alone with the bi-lingual b/s.
If you emigrate to a country try to aborb their culture,don't impose yours at the expense of tax payers. I went to P.S.52 ,now it is called JUAN PABLO DUARTE.Now can you tell me what this DR patriot have to do with this . I rather change it to HOSTOS even thought was not DR but PR by birth ,did a lot for the LATIN AMERICAN countries in the field of education.
Wher the money is coming from :reduce the military by half . It is clear why COSTA RICA has a hiegher educational standard (NO MILITARY)!!!
Written by: RonEvane, 14 Jan 2012 2:48 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{"Wher the money is coming from :reduce the military by half . It is clear why COSTA RICA has a hiegher educational standard (NO MILITARY)!!!"}
Why do we need a military, and if so, what are they good for?....I can't think of anything useful except as a gravitational center for illiterates and a parasitic niche for generals with an eight- grade education.
The army, for the most part, doesn't do what it's supposed to-- securing our border, for one-- Beyond that, it's hard to justify any other reason to maintain it. They're a corrupt institution whose part-time job is to harass and extort money from the people.
The navy, with it's antiquated, WWII vintage vessels, are more of a burden than a necessary tool.
They can do well with a few modern, smaller ships to combat drug smuggling. The same can be said for the air force. As it is right now, the Toucan planes is all it needs to do the same. The rest is dead weight on the economy and a big burden to shoulder.
From: United States, NJ
RonEvane:
Very well put together .Does any one knows the expenditure incurred on the DR tax payers by having such an illiterate military force? ,beside the indirect result of their useless presence !
All they are good for is to bring on to this world is illegitimate kids at the expence again of the tax payers,by increasing the population explotion ,forcing that girl to do it again with some one else that will provide for a while and so on & on.They could never be found to bring them to justice for a damage inflicted on the local ignorant population, that thinks the uniform makes a diference among men. Again that is not their fault since they lack education and the minister of JUSTICE does nothing abot it. All these would come to an end if the so call gvt passes a law that stipulates that all new born must have a father and he should care for him/her up to the age of 18 like here.
From: United States, Washington, DC
I have to agree with foresthill... the rate is much higher ... Reminds me of a couple of experiences where dominicans couldn't complete the documentation for customs because they couldn't read or write! I thought this one guy want to borrow my pen.. nooo he wanted me to fill out his documents.....
From: United States
this from Mr Rancier
Written by: MrThelmoAlmeydaRancier, 14 Jan 2012 3:21 PM
From: United States, NJ
RonEvane:
Very well put together .Does any one knows the expenditure incurred on the DR tax payers by having such an illiterate military force
i wholeheartedly agree with you, Mr Rancier. RonEvane hit many nails on the head. i have no beef with expanding the education budget, as Atabey might believe. my questions are ¨what will the money be spent on¨? will it be used to build spectacular school buildings, as part of the legacy of egomaniac leaders, such as the parking lot at UASD? if it is used for current expenditure, will the staff be chosen from the ranks of political favorites, who can barely read, and write? will the people who make the syllabus of studies continue to include antiquated courses, which are not relevant to today´s economic and social realities? the whole system needs a makeover, in THINKING. it should not be just a milk cow
From: United States
speaking of milk, will the purveyors of school breakfasts still be allowed to serve worthless garbage, like pound cake, as a nutritional supplement. until political cronyism, and favoritism, are removed from the equation, all the tea in China cannot fix the mess. i will not even get into the issues regarding the cultural obstacles to learning, which cannot be solved by money.
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
I think that all developing countries probably are having the same debate about education and illiteracy be it in moist other latin countries,or in China or in Thailand or in most of the African countries . I used to travel to many deveoping countries before I retired here in the DR and there are some marvelous turn arounds in some Asian countries but especially Singapore and malaysia and to a lesser degree in Thailand .
Ihave said this before but it does eem to me that there is absolutely no educational planning in the DR and that this is the first priority ..If you go to a medium sized town in the poorer NE of Thailand you always can see a large high school with a soccerfield and other facilities ,,but here there may be 20 small schools all with no facilities, teacher shortages, classroom shortages...There is no planning and we do need a minister or President who can turn the education system into something much more modern
Written by: RoyStone, 14 Jan 2012 4:33 PM
From: Australia
Ricardolito,
There are 20 small schools in a small area because many Dominican children are too fat to walk more than 100 meters to a bigger central school.
From: United States
Ricardolito says
Ihave said this before but it does eem to me that there is absolutely no educational planning in the DR and that this is the first priority
there is no planning in anything. tourism is the prime example of something that has tremendous potential to develop the economy, and has done next to nothing, because they put it together , without any planning.
Written by: RoyStone, 14 Jan 2012 4:53 PM
From: Australia
MrThelmoAlmeydaRancier,
Costa Rica has no military. Why does the Dominican Republic need one? Who with more than a dug-out canoe and a machete would want to take this country?
From: United States
Our public school system is horrible. Probably close to 80% never graduate high school so what do we expect? If you dont have the money for private school good luck getting your children a good education here.
Written by: RoyStone, 14 Jan 2012 6:44 PM
From: Australia
I first misread the title:
"Census: 13% of the population is illegitimate"
And thought that can't be right - 13% unplanned babies born out of wedlock (politically-incorrect term, bastards).
The rate is more like 50%, and that's both a cause and an effect of such appalling education statistics. Yet this society not only condones it, it encourages it. Case in point - the 16-year-old illiterate peasant-girl given a house by the government for having a baby about the time of the world reaching 7 billion.
From: Turkey, Ham & Cheese
13% in 2002. Now it's gotta be like 5%. I'm sure things have improved since then.
From: United States
@ Josean
Ohhh no buddy, im not racist - i just don't like bitter haitians like you obsessed with DR. You critizice anything dominican, even when it's good news you seem to always find a way to flip it in to something negative; like most haitians. Pulling the race card won't work. Who are you to say anything about DR? is your country better of then Us? Why are you so bitter? It don't matter when i joined this blog, what does that have to do with anything? i joined because im dominican and i care about my country - What are you doing here other than showing how bitter you are? There is more illiterates in haiti than DR, more violence, more corruptiom - so why are you here ? you should take all that "knowledge" and "wisdom" to expose your haitian government that does absolutely nothing for your people - answer me that - don't change the subject and don't reply with something else that has nothing to do with this - haitians like you should be the last people to open their mouth.
Written by: Belly, 15 Jan 2012 1:41 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
RonEvane say:
"The truth" is all too obvious to most of us. We don't need anyone to ram it down our throat.
What we need, is to try and find solutions to the myriad problems facing our nation today.
RonEvane:
The main problem in DR is that people don't think the problem exist. Yeah you and a handful may have seen the statistics but most actually think there is no problem at all. So yes there are people who have to ram it down until it gets engraved in the general public inside DR that public education is a failure with NO ending in sight. You see you could come up with a master plan to fix it but unless people inside DR know there is a problem then the plan will get trashed.
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 7:29 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Belly,
Exactly!
And there a small but very powerful group that wants to keep it that way. They benefit enormously in a magnificently and extraordinary disproportionate way. Their agendas are to maintain a status quo that allows them to continue their rule and present conditions so they can continue to reproduce and thrive. They have no allegiance to country, to party or to religion. These are mere arenas or tools to achieve their ends. Their overwhelming control over all aspects daily life in politics, religion, economics is used to reproduce their values constantly and then with their propaganda machines they are the ones that RAM IT DOWN the throats of most of us.
Since a great majority of us have not had good educational opportunities, rarely do we develop the critical thinking skills to discern if what we are being fed directly (during the era of Trujillo) or more subliminally in the current “democratic” era is beneficial to the majority of Dominicans or not .
Con
From: United States
RoyStone, be careful when you make such statements. Atabey will tell you that another 2% of GDP can eradicate the effects of that social aberration.
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 7:31 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
There are many good plans that have been put forward to revamp our dismal educational system, our electrical disaster, the out of control illegal immigration from Haiti, but none have or will be consider if they are going to affect the privilege these groups enjoy, regardless of the benefit or detriment to the country.
So when many of us point out these contradictions we are upsetting what the privilege see ais their God given right to control the apple cart. This leads them to accuse us of being, negativists, against modernity, attacking the country etc. What is sad is that this propaganda has gained ground in the minds of many Dominicans even the “educated” ones and they also use this rhetoric of attack to help perpetuate the conditions that are detrimental to them, as they are to the majority of their fellow citizens.
Continued:
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 7:33 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Sometimes I think they do this out frustration and feeling of impotence, that the problems are so many and complex that is more comfortable mentally to deny them and shoot down those that bring them to light. Others, I think, may feel that maybe someday they will be able to become part of the groups that control everything so why change anything if you have that aspiration.
It is never easy to go up against the powers that be, but power is not eternal especially when it becomes detrimental to the great majority of the citizenry.
If you don’t believe that just ask Trujillo!
Written by: RoyStone, 15 Jan 2012 7:46 AM
From: Australia
josean, well put.
Written by: Atabey, 15 Jan 2012 7:50 AM
From: United States, NYC
"the finding is that only in Asia do the coefficients have a positive correlation. in Africa, and Latin America, they are NEGATIVE. one country, to which i alluded , is Nigeria, which has spent tremendous amounts on education, with nothing to show for it. maybe you would care to opine as to why this will be different in the DR?"
Why did YOU DREAD post this quote?
Why to add an academic source to back up YOUR position that additional spending on education IN THE DR WOULD NOT PRODUCE POSITIVE ECONOMIC RETURNS! Only in Asia is additional educational funding positively correlated with economic growth. In Latin America and in Africa they are not.
That's what you were trying to establish, but you believed that no one would bother to read and understand the academic study. Perhaps you were thinking of Josean?
Perhaps you missed this part of the study you tried to pass off as supporting your proposition:
"Education spending is the largest among all government expenditures in
Written by: Atabey, 15 Jan 2012 7:52 AM
From: United States, NYC
"Education spending is the largest among all government expenditures in Asia, accounting
for 20 percent. It is not surprising that Asia has the highest quality of human capital among
regions."
Show us at DT a study that supports YOUR THEORY that additional educational spending IN DR, will be negatively correlated with economic growth.
Dready, the fallacy of your thinking on this is evident. Your backtracking is soooooo pathetic. Again trying to mislead the DT audience?
That was and continues to elude your idiotic musings.
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 8:29 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Written by: Atabey, 15 Jan 2012 8:40 AM
From: United States, NYC
"regression analysis is done for a group of countries, not individual ones. that is why it is called ¨cross country regression¨. nobody stated that the figures for the Dominican Republic will jive with the regression."--Dready
Then why on earth use it, as this study was irrelevant-DID NOT PRODUCE THE DESIRED SPECIFIC EVIDENCE TO DETERMINE IF ADDED FUNDING FOR EDUCATION WAS POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY CORRELATED IN THE CASE OF THE DR- to our argument?
You added Nigeria as an example and that pique my curiosity because we WEREN'T ARGUING about NIGERIA but the Dominican REPUBLIC!
So I went ahead and read the study in its entirety and guess what? IT WAS A REGIONAL STUDY OF THREE WORLD REGIONS: Asia, Africa and Latin America. The Regional DATA were combined for the results! And YOU DREADY thought you could pass this off as providing EVIDENCE for your position that adding funding to DR's educational sector was foolish.
Sloopy thinking skills there Dready!
From: United States, words of wisdom from the nutcracker
leonel fernandez is a phony mojon, who wears pumps , can wait to they get rid of that atraso
From: United States
says the chimpanzee brained Atabey
Sloopy thinking skills there Dready!
hang on , sloopy, sloopy hang on.
actually, i apologize to chimpanzees , the world over, for mentioning them in the same sentence as Atabey. by so doing, i have devalued their worth in the animal kingdom scheme of things.
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 9:16 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Ladies and gentlemen,
On a positive note maybe you guys have already notice but in case you haven’t:
I find it quite positive that the two most recently offered articles on education by DT
Census: 13% of the population is illiterate Poverty - 13 January 2012, 8:45 AM
and
4% of GDP for Education push kicks off 2012 with preschoolers Local - 5 January 2012, 8:03 AM
as of today have generated 200 plus commentaries!
This is very good news since in the past to generate those numbers the story had to have some element about our relationship with Haiti.
I feel that the issue of education is gaining ground in importance on DT, as it is gaining ground in the general community.
Now tha'st one POSITIVE event worth noting and celebrating.
Thank you DT for sharing these valuable articles with us!
From: United States
Atabey, why don´t you act like an adult, for a change, if you can? instead of plaing a silly game of ring around the roses, why doný you give me the figure that i asked you for, over a week ago? yes, the PER CAPITA SPENDING FIGURE- remember that one?
by the way, a buddy of mine wants to know where you attended university. he hates to do statistics, and he wants to get a BBA , but one without statistics courses. will you oblige, by divulging your alma mater? we can then check the core requirements for a BBA on the internet. thanks, in advance.
From: United States
asks the missing link
Then why on earth use it, as this study was irrelevant-DID NOT PRODUCE THE DESIRED SPECIFIC EVIDENCE TO DETERMINE IF ADDED FUNDING FOR EDUCATION WAS POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY CORRELATED IN THE CASE OF THE DR- to our argument?
you are kidding, right? you posted this just to get a rise out of the readership, right? i mean, not even you can be this stupid, right? to ask why use regression analysis is such an ignorant question, even an ape would be ashamed to ask it. oh, i forgot. you are unfamiliar with the tool , and concept, since your bachelors in business came without statistics.
From: United States
hey, Atabey, having attained the ripe old age of 19 years in the 4th grade must have been really embarrassing for you. however, you should have stuck to the task, instead of dropping out of school. i mean, look at you now.
Written by: Atabey, 15 Jan 2012 10:52 AM
From: United States, NYC
Dready,
You WERE CAUGHT using sloppy logic to defend your position and as always when I demonstrate to the DT audience your misreading on a subject (dready caught with his pants down) attack the source.
State your Mae Culpa, Chump.
Where is the evidence that educational spending is NEGATIVELY correlated with economic growth in the SPECIFIC CASE OF THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC?
Still looking for it!
That's what YOU CAN'T SEEM TO FIND THE ANSWER TO!
Trying instead to "pull the wool over the eyes" of the rests of the DT audience.
Remember, there are Dominicans ready to remove your wool, and EXPOSE your faulty thinking.
Ad hominem and Poisoning the well tactics will do you NO GOOD.
Post your evidence or be silent on the matter!
From: United States
let me try this once more , for the benefit of those in the site who have a brain. i do not expect it to sink into the vaccuum between the ears of Atabey, because it has well been established that his mental skillset never evolved, and he has the intellectual capacity of a three year old. so, here are the steps
1...cross country regressions are intended to establish CORRELATION. they examine the effects of the same set of inputs on a group of countries, in order to determine if the effects are the same, in all cases. if, in the majority of cases, the effects are the same, then CORRELATION is established
2...the regression analysis sometimes reveals that the effects are different, in a number of cases. although the results might be positive in almost the entire sample, there might be cases in which the obverse is true. that means that the analysis cannot establish CAUSATION. it only establishes LIKELIHOOD.
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 11:17 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"Mae Culpa"
It's Mea culpa in a GED Level Status :) observation!!
From: United States
3..CORRELATION can be established without CAUSATION. CAUSATION cannot, however, be present without CORRELATION.
4 the thrust of my argument is that the positive results , as a response to input, which might be observed in one country, need not be present in others. i use Nigerial as a case in point, in which the results run counter to the trends. that suggests that some of the receptors of the inputs might militate against their effectiveness, and that the data shows that there is no CAUSATIVE relationship between expenditure on education, and positive results. the underlying social and cultural dynamics, and the efficacy of the process of education, are the important determinants, not the MONEY SPENT.
i suggest, and still do, that there is no guarantee that money will have a NECESSARILY positive effect on the DR , because there are anomalies in the analysis, and it is not known whether or not the DR will fall into the positive, or the negative group.
From: United States
all of this is lost on Atabey, who is unable to interpret this kind of analysis, and misrepresents what i said, as is his stock in trade. at no point does my posting suggest that the effects will not be positive. it merely states a possibility, based on statistical methodology. here i am, arguing statistics with a guy who can barely count to ten, and who thinks he has me outgunned. the same guy who cannot provide me with a simple figure i have asked him for, for over a week
From: United States
says the guy looking up from the bottom of the Bell Curve
Still looking for it!
no, Attaboob, i am still looking for the figure i asked you to produce over a week ago
From: United States
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 11:17 AM
From: United States
"Mae Culpa"
It's Mea culpa in a GED Level Status :) observation!!
when you are Atabey, and GED is a far and distant dream, Mae Culpa is good enough.
Written by: Atabey, 15 Jan 2012 11:35 AM
From: United States, NYC
Josean,
Please pay close attention and learn as "La Corea,"- is administered to El Dready's sloppy think.
Own up to your sloppy thinking Dready. It does make you any less of a cretin. You have consistently viewed DR negatively and I have demonstrated that YOUR JAMAICA has actually been doing far worse for like 30 years or so!
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 11:44 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"Attaboob"
Has kinda of nice ring to it!
From: United States
admit to the fact that you, Atabey, are an unapologetic , uneducated jackass, trying to pose as an academic. you know NOTHING. you are trying to chicken fight with me over statistical realities, when you, yourself, never took a stats class in your life. that makes you look like a cretin. sensible people pick their spots. idiots go on rampages. i asked you for a simple figure, a week ago. instead of either getting it to me, or admitting the obvious, that you do not know how to establish it, you drag red herrings across the dialogue, confusing the issue. and, as an aside, if Jamaica has been doing worse thatn the DR for 30 years or so, how is it that we have this reality?
JAMAICA...HIGH HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC...MEDIUM HUMAN DEVELOPMENT...
care to explain?
From: United States
Atabey, the Alma Mater, please. my buddy wants to enrol for the spring semester.
Written by: RoyStone, 15 Jan 2012 12:25 PM
From: Australia
Dready,
Thank you for drawing my attention to the significance of the images on banknotes. Yes it seems Dominican notes show mostly administrators long since dead and gone. It prompted me to look at Australian bank notes and was interested to see the number of famous scientists, engineers, architects, women and Aborigines, and even a British convict, and of course, the Queen of Australia, Elizabeth.
From: United States
Roy, i was just trying to draw attention to the fact that mindset has as much to do with development as money does.
Written by: RoyStone, 15 Jan 2012 1:06 PM
From: Australia
Josean & Dready,
"Boob" is not a derogatory term in my book.
Life's no fun without boobs.
Written by: RoyStone, 15 Jan 2012 1:09 PM
From: Australia
Yes, Dready, I did get your point.
It will be interesting to see if the Peso goes into free-fall.
Months ago I laughed when a friend said the Aussie dollar might reach $1.50 US
Now I think it's a possibility.
Written by: RoyStone, 15 Jan 2012 1:29 PM
From: Australia
Ron states:
"A school can be much more than a building. It can be a community center where parents can meet to plan for a better neighborhood, A political arena to discuss ways to improve the local conditions, a place where decent folks can interact and unite, etc."
Not in this country. There is no shortage of meetings amongst parents now, but they don't discuss education, they just strut their new clothes, mobile phones, brag and talk sh!t. Yet many parents here are too busy to attend parent-teacher meetings, even though they don't have any job at all!
Written by: Atabey, 15 Jan 2012 3:13 PM
From: United States, NYC
"Let's get it on Josean ....This song is dedicated to you
Written by: yumnuk3, 21 Dec 2011 10:02 PM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
Welcome to Joseantoday...LOL.
Written by: josean, 21 Dec 2011 10:41 PM
From: United States
I you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch!
Written by: yumnuk3, 22 Dec 2011 9:38 AM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
What leads you to believe you are a big dog around here?
Written by: josean, 22 Dec 2011 1:17 PM
From: United States
The same thing that leads you to belive this is "joseantoday," Chihuahua!
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....ized-from-Puerto-Rican-drug"Josean,
DT understands your limitations. "RE: Let's get it on Josean"
Why don't you see to that matter you've been avoiding like the plague. :)
Let Dready defend himself; he still believes in the fallacy of his logic.
Written by: Atabey, 15 Jan 2012 3:16 PM
From: United States, NYC
Man up Dready. Or did they take away more than your "honor" with that delicate knife job to the groin?
From: Canada
So getting back on topic ... with such huge numbers of people unable to read means that those who can read have the control ... my observation is that the government is deliberately preventing it's citizens from reading in order to keep as many as possible impoverished and thus easily manipulated in such areas as graft, corruption and the like.
Probably information technology is the only way out for the nation as a whole. An entire program dedicated to creative thinking with talent focused on writing code to build mobile phone apps in spanish, for instance ... yes only a start for a suggestion but there are so many different areas in technology to engage in that Dominican could be the leader in the caribbean in this sector if they wanted to ....
mind blowing to build a tunnel and rail system in the capital .. to benefit who? why not use all the same people to construct as many schools as possible and then outfit them with all the desks and chairs and books they can find ...
From: Canada
and Atabey ... what does 'knife job to the groin?' have to do with this topic?
From: Haiti
I think 60% of Dominicans are illiterate! I don't know why you have a lot of liar who don't say the truth.
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 5:10 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Josean,
DT understands your limitations. "RE: Let's get it on Josean"
Why don't you see to that matter you've been avoiding like the plague. :)
Let Dready defend himself; he still believes in the fallacy of his logic.
Don't worry Attabey someday you will be as insignificant as me with my GED Level Status :) that maybe someone will open a Forum Topic dedicate to you as well!
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 5:11 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Any of the people on the forum are welcome to come and debate here if they wish. I have never participated in the forum even before you came here to enlighten us with you brilliance. I have stated why I don't care for the forum in the past. To those who do I respect their choice, as I would hope they respect mine.
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 5:12 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
However, they are welcome to engage in this arena as well, remember to me it’s not about winning or losing it’s about share information that is verifiable.
Written by: RoyStone, 15 Jan 2012 5:24 PM
From: Australia
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."
Written by: RoyStone, 15 Jan 2012 6:37 PM
From: Australia
josean, what about PMs?
Written by: Belly, 15 Jan 2012 6:57 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
As I seat back and read all the comments of posted here from many of my fellows it simply brings me to the conclusion that the problem is bigger that most can even comprehend.
We have many here with higher degrees of education and who have been in DR many times or live in there yet cannot accept the simple fact that education in DR is a failure.
Is 2012 yet the most educated crowd of Dominicans on the web cannot pin point the essence of the problem. Before we can even begin any reasonable discussion of education and what is needed in DR we must admit that the problem has been there since the beginning of the republic.
Before proposing any plans we must understand what education is and what is not. The fact that people concentrate on a mere literacy rate as a goal of education simply shows how low we aim as a country. The goal shall not be to raise 87% to 99% but ask the question, What is the quality of that 87%. I much rather have a 50% literacy rate based in quality than thi
Written by: RonEvane, 15 Jan 2012 8:53 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
{"Before we can even begin any reasonable discussion of education and what is needed in DR we must admit that the problem has been there since the beginning of the republic."}
Yes, I for one, Admit to it.... Please, do tell us what you think the real problem is and how to resolve it!...
Written by: Atabey, 15 Jan 2012 9:04 PM
From: United States, NYC
DT understands your limitations. "RE: Let's get it on Josean"
Why don't you see to that matter you've been avoiding like the plague. :)
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 5:12 PM
From: United States
However, they are welcome to engage in this arena as well, remember to me it’s not about winning or losing it’s about share information that is verifiable."
Stop being a wuss and go to the deep waters of the Forum, Josey; the sharks don't bite :)
I'm sure yumnuk3 will bring his A game to the match. Will you?
The only condition is that no person will hold your hand while you show DT what you're made of. Grow a pair and go into the BIG WATER IF YOU DARE.
Dready doesn't need you to hold his hand, he might not have any, but he's at least unafraid of the deep blue waters like you. :)
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 9:12 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Atabey in a sophomoric rant says;
"Grow a pair and go into the BIG WATER IF YOU DARE."
Even if I were castrated tomorrow I would have more of pair than you will ever have!
Written by: Belly, 15 Jan 2012 9:37 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
deleted
Written by: Belly, 15 Jan 2012 9:37 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Ron
Yes, I for one, Admit to it.... Please, do tell us what you think the real problem is and how to resolve it!...
A question so complex cannot be answered by a single person and neither would I try to but in my opinion education's main ingredient is parenting, environment in/out of school and opportunity. The ultimate goal of education is reward for hard-work.
So as simply pointing out the main ingredient we can see that even though money from gov. can make a difference in education that's only 1/3 of the equation.
to continue...
Written by: Belly, 15 Jan 2012 9:38 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg and of course is simply my opinion and I'm sure there are many layers of problem that would affect the essentials negatively.
Parenting in DR is 1 of the worse that flows from domestic violence to child abuse both physically and mentally. Even after we get education right and of quality there is reward portion that can build or destroy the spirit.
Everyday we get reminded by the news that education is pointless and fruit-less unless you are well connected
Written by: RoyStone, 15 Jan 2012 9:43 PM
From: Australia
Sign at Las Americanos Airport:
"Would the last educated Dominican leaving the country please turn out the lights."
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 5:52 AM
From: United States, NYC
"[A]nd, as an aside, if Jamaica has been doing worse tha[n] the DR for 30 years or so, how is it that we have this reality?
JAMAICA...HIGH HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC...MEDIUM HUMAN DEVELOPMENT...
care to explain?"
Why yes and always a pleasure dear Dready.
You see Dready Jamaica, your homeland, had a far easier, less violent upbringing than the Dominican Republic. Jamaica, for instance, didn't have the hemisphere's poorest member as its western neighbor ON THE SAME ISLAND! Nor did Jamaica have the series of incompetent governments that DR has traditionally had at the seat of central government; Jamaica had the British at the helm and because of the luck of the colonial draw, it was England and her language, English that developed Jamaica. When Jamaica gained her independence in the early 1960's, 1961 I believe, she did so without violence not the threat of being overrun by a neighbor. Thus Jamaica had a vast advantage at the start of her independent existen
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 5:55 AM
From: United States, NYC
something that was denied the Dominican Republic throughout her early years of independence. Who knows how the DR would have developed had Haiti NOT invaded her and held her against her will for 22 years in addition to being a constant early treat to her national existence as an independent actor.
And let's not neglect the huge advantage that English usage has had on developing Jamaica's human capital and the ties this usage has afforded Jamaicans over say Dominicans with their more limited access to the vast and dominant USA-Canadian markets. Thus Jamaicans have been able to adjust far faster and with greater degrees of upward mobility chiefly due to their language skills. In tourism, Jamaicans have been able to supply a more user friendly environment again because American and British tourist, as well as anyone with English mastery or semi-mastery, found it less restrictive to visit.
But for the last 30 years, Jamaica has coughed up her large early lead dear friend!
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 6:07 AM
From: United States, NYC
And therein lies that trending problem: While the DR has been growing economically Jamaica has been in a funk the last 30 years or so:
:
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/bu....-fixing-the-economy#ixzz1jCRXwJFI GDP growth has been LESS THAN 1% PER YEAR IN JAMAICA FOR 30 YEARS!
"The problem is that Jamaica has cultivated a society that embraces poverty and distrusts wealth, reasoned Ross about the country's generation of austerity. Comparatively, Haiti the poorest country in the Americas, will grow twice as fast as Jamaica over the period under review whilst the Dominican Republic, often compared to Jamaica for its historically similar income levels has galloped past Jamaica with growth rates consistently in the high single digits from the '90s trending into 2015."
Read more:
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/bu....n-the-world_8046873#ixzz1jcv6ijNcThe DR has "galloped past Jamaica" and these are HIS words!
From: Dominican Republic
Roy you kill me! lmao
Atabey/Dread.... Fluck the stats and make peace! .... Stats are made by man and easy to fudge to manipulate events. Parameters/standards are set by men to serve men's interests.
BACK TO THE SUBJECT:
No matter how you look at it; you can never spend too much on education, but it must be matched by opportunities.... How many of my DR friends have graduate degrees with no opportunity to be more than a guagua or motoconcho driver?
I believe that all efforts should be placed on promoting any related education that will target the resource of this country (where the economic freedom and the future of the country are)..... TOURISM.... Other resources (gold, copper, etc) are not renewable.
From: Dominican Republic
I know for a fact that the best bullet against poverty, corruption, economic chaos is EDUCATION......
From: Dominican Republic
Along with this, target all environmental disciplines..... People do not like to go on vacation on a heap of garbage.Create subsedized programs that will open doors for students in these disciplines. Educate early on environmental protection, human rights, ethical behavior, and responsible family planning.
SPEND on PEOPLE not toy subways, 26 million pesos political campaigns, or foreign pomps and ass-kissing trips.
How dare you compare Costa Rica to the DR.... Costa Rica is one of the 20 oldest democracies in the world. The DR has a very young democracy, which is not instantaneous ... IT TAKES TIME to get the house in order and reap the benefits. Canada and the US have gone through the same periods of trouble in their past before they became what they are today.
Cheers mates!
Concatchero
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 6:53 AM
From: United States, NYC
Concatchero,
I ONLY compared DR to Costa Rica as an example of how a small nation CAN seek to develop itself! I fully understand the vast differences in national experiences both nations have developed under.
And I have been advocating for an elimination of illiteracy in DR with a strong emphasis on K-12 education. Not some gold plated White Elephant monument to egocentric pretensions!
With something like 60% of the national economy STILL not formalized, DR has room to negotiate more funding resources to tackle its myriad of social problems that stem largely from having soooooo many of its people in semi-illiterate status or worse.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 6:55 AM
From: United States, NYC
http://www.ifpri.org/sites/defaul....s/divs/eptd/dp/papers/eptdp99.pdf Government expenditures
1995 international dollars, billions , Percentage of GDP
------------------------1980 ---1990----- 1998--- 1980--- 1990--- 1998
Chile_________ 13.68__ 14.41___ 27.63_ 28.01_ 20.38_ 21.57
Costa Rica ______3.12 ___4.05____ 6.30_ 25.04_ 25.61_ 29.06
Dominican Rep.__ 3.35___ 2.97____ 6.34_ 16.92_ 11.66_ 16.29
Look at the funding levels for public expenditures for the DR and Costa Rica.
How can DR ever develop its human capital resources if it spends LESS resources, half as much, as C R?
1980 CR had a pop. of 2.3 million versus DR 6.0 million
1990 3.0 million -------------------versus DR 7.0 million
1998 3.7 million ------------------------versus DR 8.25 million
Yet C R SPENT 3.12 billion to DR's 3.35 billion in 1980, CR 4.05 >DR 2.97[!] in 1990, and
CR 6.30 ~DR 6.34 in 1998
The % of GDP reflects the vast differences in central government support
From: United States
Written by: Concatchero, 16 Jan 2012 6:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Roy you kill me! lmao
Atabey/Dread.... Fluck the stats and make peace! ...
i have no problem with that, except for the fact that Atabey is a disreputable sociopath, who cannot be trusted to live by his word. the guy has no character and integrity, and is proud of it. on a prior occasion, he appealed to me to end the hostilities, and, when i agreed to, he opened an obsuure thread, which he thought i would not bother to read, and trashed me in it. in the words of my niece, a phorensic psychologist in the New Mexico corrections system, he is a moral nihilist, who does not accept the fact that there is such a notions as right and wrong., i have no problem making agreements with honorable people. social vermin need not apply. i do not do business with people who go back into a thread, long after it has been debated, and change what they originally said, in order to convey a different stance. Atabey is dreck.
From: United States
Atabey seems to have a fixation with Jamaica
The DR has "galloped past Jamaica" and these are HIS words!
he accepts criticisms from people from all other origins, except, it seems, from Jamaicans. that makes me believe that he has had a traumatic event with a Jamaican, or group, thereof. what's the matter, Atta? posse boys knocked over your spot on the corner?rude boys kicked you around on Rikers?
From: United States
Atabey, this is now day 6. where is my figure? yes, the one regarding per capita expenditure per student. you remember the one i am speaking of, don't you?
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 7:09 AM
From: United States, NYC
Top of the morning to ya Dready!
Let's be nice today as it's MLK Day. OK
Dready you did ask this question of me, and I've answered.
Why No love Man?
"[A]nd, as an aside, if Jamaica has been doing worse tha[n] the DR for 30 years or so, how is it that we have this reality?
JAMAICA...HIGH HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC...MEDIUM HUMAN DEVELOPMENT...
care to explain?"---Dready
From: United States
Dready you did ask this question of me, and I've answered.
the only answer i want from you is the figure. all else is peripheral. the FIGURE, Atabey. enough dancing. THE FIGURE.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 7:58 AM
From: United States, NYC
Dready,
How's your challenge to the Export Led Industrialization Model offer going?
Any advancements?
Written by: Pedrin, 16 Jan 2012 8:07 AM
From: United States
Only 13%, I don't think so!
From: United States
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 7:58 AM
From: United States
Dready,
How's your challenge to the Export Led Industrialization Model offer going?
Any advancements?
it will be out, shortly. unlike you, i do my research, so i do not end up looking like a jackass. idiocy is your stock in trade, so it does not matter to you if people think that you are dumb. any progress on your end with the FIGURE i asked you for?
From: Dominican Republic
Atabey,
Thanks for the answer.... I see your point but mine was about the governement leadership and its experience with Democracy, which cannot be compared to the DR to show equalities but rather inequalities. The figures are clear... Older democracies do better because there is much less corruption and more money goes back to the people. Now compare literacy and spending on education and it becomes clear that the more you spend on education, the more it benefits the country, economy, and the quality of life, therefore reducing population growth because people can afford rubbers, and are educated about social responsibilities and family planning.
From: Dominican Republic
If the government here does not get its head out of its ass, the doors will be wide openned for crud like Chavez and turds like Castro, because the poor will vote for them just to see changes and get more pesos, and get any action on social inequalities. They will want more out of nothing, even if it is only a little, and it will be at the expense of freedom and democracy.
By the way, its not "Concaquero" but Concatchero! Your fingers are going crooked again when you type too fast... A.k.a Sloopy work! Lmao
From: United States
Written by: Pedrin, 16 Jan 2012 8:07 AM
From: United States
Only 13%, I don't think so!
actually, these stats are issued by the governments of countries. the agencies that publish them are not the ones that do the surveys. in this case, the figures may be understated, in order to create a more favorable impression. the second feature to be taken into consideration is that there is no single standard for literacy, the world over. in some countries, the requisites for literacy are higher than in others. some countries, for example, may consider the ability to put letters together, and read the resultant word, a display of literacy. other countries may have a higher threshold, which demands the ability to comprehend the meaning of a group of words, put together, to form a sentence.
Written by: RoyStone, 16 Jan 2012 8:23 AM
From: Australia
Pedrin,
The stats are 9 years old. Since then, literate Dominicans have been fleeing the country like rats from a sinking ship, while illiterate should-be-at-school age girls are having babies that will follow their mother's example.
From: United States
besides, Pedrin, literacy is not the only issue at stake. it is also a matter of information deficit..when i have grown men ask me if there is snow in Jamaica, i wonder what the heck is going on with the education system here.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 8:45 AM
From: United States, NYC
: dreadlocks, 16 Jan 2012 8:17 AM
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 7:58 AM
From: United States
Dready,
How's your challenge to the Export Led Industrialization Model offer going?
Any advancements?
it will be out, shortly. unlike you, i do my research, so i do not end up looking like a jackass. idiocy is your stock in trade, so it does not matter to you if people think that you are dumb. any progress on your end with the FIGURE i asked you for?"
Dready,
Let's be cordial, at least today, it is MLK Day after all. And thanks for the follow up.
----------------
Concatchero,
I agree, but Dready has a point concerning the marginal return to investment and whether or not these ADDITIONAL spending are put to good use. I believe that in the SPECIFIC case of the DR, they do because:
1. Unlike several countries in Latin America, DR has a substantial number and % of its population that is illiterate or functionally so!
Thus DR stands to make
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 8:47 AM
From: United States, NYC
substantial gains in overall improvements IF IT PROVIDES professional and well managed educational opportunities, K-12 grade education, to these illiterate and functionally-illiterate subset populations.
2. DR also will generate more interests from foreign capitalists interested in investments, as her HUMAN RESOURCE will be able to competently compete with other nations for medium and higher end manufacturing and service investments. Just like Costa Rica has Intel investments so too will DR be able to interest corporate investment flows to develop its industrial and information technological sector. Small flows can over time and with good management facilitate substantial improvement in a small country like the DR.
3. Better trained and educated workers will allow DR to move up the tourism chain and compete for the higher end market. Thus adding greater potential earnings and investment flows.
4. All social matrices will show improvements: less violence and crime.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 9:10 AM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: Concatchero, 16 Jan 2012 8:22 AM
If the government here does not get its head out of its ass, the doors will be wide openned for crud like Chavez and turds like Castro, because the poor will vote for them just to see changes and get more pesos, and get any action on social inequalities. They will want more out of nothing, even if it is only a little, and it will be at the expense of freedom and democracy."
Sorry about the name.
And YES! I agree with you that the leadership groups in DR had better use better judgment and judicious thinking moving forward as what happened in Venezuela with the populist bandwagon could possibly occur in DR. People's expectations of a better life for themselves and their family are driving expectations through the roof and governments need to respond with better managed, less corrupt delivery systems.
Let's hope that DR can manage the distance before things get out of hand; but there's certainly cause for concern.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 11:07 AM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 11:07 AM
From: United States, NYC
any progress on your end with the FIGURE i asked you for?
Dready start here, I'll feed you some more later on.
Public spending on education; total (% of GDP) in Dominican Republic 2 2
Public spending on education; total (% of government expenditure) in Dominican Republic 11 11
Pump price for diesel fuel (US dollar per liter) in Dominican Republic 1
Pump price for gasoline (US dollar per liter) in Dominican Republic 1
Pupil-teacher ratio; primary in Dominican Republic 24 20
Pupil-teacher ratio; secondary in Dominican Republic 29 24
Quality of port infrastructure; WEF (1=extremely underdeveloped to 7=well developed and efficient by international standards) in Dominican Republic 4 4
Quasi-liquid liabilities (% of GDP) in Dominican Republic 14 13
Quasi money (current LCU) in Dominican Republic 330881998443 366030338570
Ratio of female to male primary enrollment (%) in Dominican Republic 94 93
Ratio of female to male secondary enrollment (%
Written by: josean, 16 Jan 2012 11:50 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Now the former expert on neo-liberalism, modern governance, globalization, export and a month ago biometrics and other esoteric minutia, final realizes that all that mumbo jumbo is of no relevance if the core structural priority problem EDUCATION is not addressed FIRST!
Now ladies and gentlemen that is why I call PROGRESS!
I want to thank all those that have helped to “RAM IT DOWN” his throat and the other education infidels at DT.
From: Dominican Republic
WWOOOW I stepped away for 2 days and this one went nuts....
Ron.. some very good points and good ideas about how to get more funding for education.. my only thought would be that if you start a system like you proposed it would give the government more incentive to do less about the problem and take more money away from education.. Although it would be a good way to raise more after they fulfill their obligations of the very least 4% ...
Roy as usual you crack me up.... but with your dry humor you still make poignant social comments..
From: Dominican Republic
Dready... mmmm
some time it's is better to just not reply to some people.. May I try and sum it up what your point is....?? for others that are just hell bent on finding something to argue and then reverting to the Jamaica thing..
More money spent on education in this country in this political environment would do very little but only make it look better for those in power....
Close??? if not you could maybe add to it... but that is how I see your point...
Not all good education is best taught in the class room... I like Roy have a short attention... I for one was lucky to have had three really great teaches.. my mum and dad and one teacher in high school..
.
Belly ... good comments and thanks for trying to get the thread back on track with this very important topic...
From: United States
says stillhere
More money spent on education in this country in this political environment would do very little but only make it look better for those in power....
Close??? if not you could maybe add to it... but that is how I see your point
that is exactly what i am saying. not because money is being spent means that there will be positive results. if the money is spent on expensive capital projects, rather than on current expenditure, the only people who will profit are builders, and hardware stores, along with the politicians, who will get their cut. if it is spent on political appointees, rather than qualified teachers, there will be no progress. there are cases wherein large expenditures have been made to education, and there is no empirical ecidence that any positive gains have ben made. Atabey does not understand something so simple for the rest of us, but so complicated for him.
From: United States
Atabey, i will take your latest foolish antics to represent an admission that you cannot provide me with the FIGURE i asked you for, now going 7 days. never thought you could , anyway.
From: United States
Written by: stillhere, 17 Jan 2012 7:17 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Dready... mmmm
some time it's is better to just not reply to some people.
so true, stillhere, so true. had an interesting experience in the bank, yesterday. this guy asks the cashier to change a US 50 dollar bill. she gives him the change, and he starts making a scene, declaring it to be 2 pesos short. the cashier asks him how he figures that to be. simple, he says. he calculated it himself. so, even though she does this on a daily basis, as a full time job, and she has the assistance of an electronic calculator, he is right, and she , and her calculator, are wrong. must have been Atabey.
From: Dominican Republic
Dread... I was sure you had never said that spending more on education wouldn't help but it was how and by whom gets it and spends it... Even from all the other threads about education your position has always been that...
Written by: Atabey, 17 Jan 2012 10:53 AM
From: United States, NYC
Stillhere,
Careful Stillhere, You might catch a similar bug malady known to Josean: lack of READING COMPREHENSION.
I believe you are uninformed concerning the debate between us (Dready and Atabey)
For it's as plain as vanilla what Dready was saying concerning spending MORE money on education in the specific case of the DR. Dready stated categorically that Dominicans were NOT interested in education, but other more traditional pursuits: whoring, dancing, playing games on electronic devices, etc. They were like horses that did not want to drink the vitamin rich waters of knowledge, to paraphrase El dready. Just look it up!
I said nonsense! Show me proof. And El Dready decided to post a study on REGIONAL RESULTS! Not specific national results! Dready didn't give the web-site address but quoted what he believed would silence me and back up his theory with an authoritative sourced document. Little did he know that the internet provides one with the same material.
Written by: Atabey, 17 Jan 2012 10:55 AM
From: United States, NYC
And what do you know: the negative correlation found in Africa and Latin America did NOT specify what countries were so, ONLY the region!
So I asked Dready, on what basis can YOU Dready defend your theory when your evidence DOES NOT offer us proof that the negative correlation, valid for the REGION OF LATIN AMERICA, is true or valid for the SPECIFIC case of the Dominican Republic?
Silence from Dready on that CRUCIAL POINT of debate and attacking me for allegedly not reading the study correctly! Ha HA HA HA!!!
Then apparently someone PM Dready and told him why the evidence wasn't really valid since at best it COULD BE BUT THERE WAS NO MEANS TO KNOW FROM THE DREADY STATED EVIDENCE........the back tracking began in earnest.
Of course, now dready really didn't say that Blah, Blah, Blah!
You were caught Dready with your pants down.
Written by: RoyStone, 17 Jan 2012 11:44 AM
From: Australia
Sure there is much more to education than literacy. However it is a useful, universal yardstick. When it is low, you can be sure the other aspects of education are also severely lacking. I am not sure where the cut-off point is for literacy - is it the ability to read and write SMSs on a mobile phone?
Written by: Atabey, 17 Jan 2012 11:49 AM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: stillhere, 17 Jan 2012 7:17 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Dready... mmmm
some time it's is better to just not reply to some people.. May I try and sum it up what your point is....?? for others that are just hell bent on finding something to argue and then reverting to the Jamaica thing.."
Yes, the Jamaican thing. and why not? If Dready is truly versed in ANY land it should be his known, no?
And what indeed have I demonstrated to the DT community: why that when debating the current malaise of Jamaica DREADY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT!
Just check out Dready's response concerning economic growth or GDP growth in Jamaica. He said that it wasn't an important component for the nation!
When I posted several articles that STATED THE OBVIOUS! from Jamaican newspapers, all Dready could do was get philosophical and go to the dumpster.
Kinda sums up Dready's take, no?
Written by: RoyStone, 17 Jan 2012 12:09 PM
From: Australia
In a Santo Domingo history test, the teach told asked the class "who said the following, and when?"
"I have a dream?"
Little Haitian Louis put up his hand and said, "Martin Luther King, Jr. in 1963"
"Very good, Louis, and who said "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country"?"
As quick as a flash, Loius answered "John F Kennedy in 1961"
From the back of the class, a big, fat Dominican boy, Angelo snarled "Get back to Haiti you smart-ass black (unt""
Horrified, the teacher demanded "who said that!"
"Rafael Trujillo in 1937" replied Lois.
From: Dominican Republic
hahhahahahhahhahaha
From: Dominican Republic
hahhahahahhahhahaha
From: Canada
Why does this picture show a student sitting on the desk instead of the chair for the desk?
There seems to be a need to constantly closely review photos and captions to see how they relate ...
Written by: RoyStone, 18 Jan 2012 6:33 PM
From: Australia
FedericoD,
Because this senior class is forced to use a classroom intended for juniors. What do you expect from 2.3 % of a tiny GDP allocated to education? The country's subsidy on electricity is more than double that figure.
Written by: RoyStone, 18 Jan 2012 6:38 PM
From: Australia
Thanks, stillhere,
I actually adapted an Australian joke about Pauline Hanson.
(Someone who dared to tell it like it is, but that's another story)
Written by: juanb, 19 Jan 2012 1:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I hope that the readers here do not miss the best post of all due to all the infighting between Dready and Atabey.
Little dick congratulates us for such a low illiteracy rate. First of all everyone knows if the gov't says its 13% anyone other than a paid government stooge knows it has to be more like 30-40%.
Written by: RoyStone, 19 Jan 2012 1:24 PM
From: Australia
juanb,
The 13% are those who can't read or write. It does not include the greater percentage that can read but chose not to.
From: United States, NJ
RoyStone:
I like your last comment & juanb's at 1:02pm,1;24pm .It makes sence to me .
I had mentioned how to solve this educational problem and as dreadlocks stated and I agree
also ('all the money in the world ,could not educate any one if they don't want to be educated).
Some one had mentioned the quality of teachers as well as the infrastucture. If a person wants
to learn he could do it under a tree having the propper educator I was told by my parents that
EDUCATION starts at home and continues at home under a rigid discipline. The rest is up to you
if you wnt to further it by going to libraries and do some research on your own.
I read every one's input. Believe me i got an education out of it . Mr josean also has lots of goody.
Written by: RonEvane, 19 Jan 2012 6:20 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
('all the money in the world ,could not educate any one if they don't want to be educated).
It's not as simple as that.
"Nurturing" is a word of utmost importance when we speak of education and children in the same breath.
For the most part, we're all born with the same, or similar capabilities to learn and develop. But further development, hinges upon the prevaling environment.... Provided they're given the proper nutrition, encouragement, and suitable schooling, will make all the difference in the world....When a child grows up, sans any of these ingredients, the last thing a he/she thinks of, is education. He is too busy trying to survive. The part about "don't want to be educated", stem from an environment that made him that way: someone who can't think straight, and does not value education as a way out of poverty.... He doesn't know better because he never learned, any better.
Written by: RoyStone, 19 Jan 2012 6:42 PM
From: Australia
MrThelmoAlmeydaRancier,
Can I call you Thelmo?
I agree totally about education beginning at home. My 2 sons have almost completed their PhDs in Bio-Medical Science. I started their education literally in-utero, at home, and spent much time, reading an discussing things until I couldn't keep up, well into their university studies. They went to ordinary government schools, and were in a small group in the top of the class in each grade (mostly Asian kids) who competed with each other, and also studied at each others houses after school. Almost as soon as they could walk I took them running every morning before breakfast, taught them how to swim, ride a bike, paddle a canoe, sail a yacht, snow-ski and roller-blade. They also excelled in sport at school an continue in a gym still. One rides 20 km to his laboritory every day. The other is also in the Australian Army part-time, and showed the Dominicans how to do Salsa properly when he was here.
Written by: RoyStone, 19 Jan 2012 6:51 PM
From: Australia
I also taught him to play guitar when he was young - now he teaches me. Both are active conservationists.
Sorry if I am bragging, but I am proud of their achievements, and the point I am making, is there was not a lot of money spent by me or the government on their education. However there was a lot of time and discipline, and I believe the attitude a child gets from his parents it the most important factor in their education. That is why I despair about the prospects for the kids in my village here. Their parents have no interest in education so the kids don't. I have never seen anyone reading a book, nor have I seen anyone over 12 year old without a mobile phone, or any guy over 15 without a motorbike or a car, however almost no one has a license or a full-time job.
From: United States, NJ
To start with I agree with you.Nevertheless in the Tri-State area of NY,NJ,CT there is a big drop out % of DR kids that never finished HS, that were given the opportunities that you mentioned above and they did not take it..Girls of DR back ground that left school because they were pregnant,and her parents instead of supporting them, kicked them out, forcing them to apply for
welfare when the boyfriend walked out on her."You could take a horse to water but can't force him
to drink it".
Now days it is very common for couples to live together untill love is no longer or the passion for
each other dies. It is a practice of all the kids up here "sex before education"a kid raising a kid at 16 years of age. They can't put them in jail since they are minors.The boyfriend can do so much
since he also droped out and did not pick a vocational trainnig to get a job.Typical Dominican wants to start at the top.
From: United States, NJ
Roy you can call me Thelmo ,nothing wrong with that since that is my name.
Roy, I don't know what is wrong with DT ,no sooner I come close to over 100 characters left he
closes me out ,therefore could not tell you all ,I thought it was 500 characters the max..
My son also is into wresling G/R stile. Graduated from Montclare College,got married had 2 kids.taught in the same HS he graduated from for 3 years bought a house before getting married.
He is the Head Coach of the HS now for 17 years all total teaching 20 yrs. Has 2 post grad +30 credits ,passed supervisor test and principal test. He is comfotable teaching for one thing ,the other is job security as a teacher protected by the teacher's union. He does everything in sports you spoke about above with his kids.We love to bragg about their acomplishments.The 2 kids are
into wrestling also.
From: United States, NJ
Roy ,this guy is not the typical DR man ,I think sex is secondary in his life . Sports and keeping himself in shape is more impotant . Maybe since he is half DR and half Colombian born in Gringo land,For 43 years old looks like a 27 yrs old man.Al;ways working out.God bless him ,never smoked or cheated on his wife and ocational drinks on reunions socially.
Untill tomorrow
TAR
Written by: RonEvane, 20 Jan 2012 3:45 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Mr. Thelmo and Roy.
You have both done an splendid job of raising children. I think I have too. My daughter's in her third year of college and my son will graduate from HS in June, next year.
I think the same as you: education begins at home with all the encouragement, discipline and love possible.....However, I had no such luck. My folks, although I loved them dearly, placed no value in education and really did not care to spend the time an effort to, what I think, was their duty to do.
Had I not lived in the US and had not the encouragement of my teachers, I would not have come as far as I have. As little as my accomplishments have been, I dread to think what would have been if my young years and adulthood had been spent in the DR.
My point is, that althought parental education is indeed vital to a child's success, it's not all there is.
I think the cycle of illiteracy and misery can be broken with well-supplied schools staffed with good teachers.....
Written by: RonEvane, 20 Jan 2012 4:35 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
...that care enough to give them the proper nutrition and a caliber education. I have myself as an example of what can be accomplished in school. I did well in spite of my limitations.
And how did your folks do in rearing you both? Surely someone in your lineage did not do his/her job in good parenting. Yet you turned out ok, yes?
You both see only results of the mind-set most Dominican parents have regarding their offsprings; that children there, (for the most part), don't care for an education. But, can't you see? They're following along the path they've been shown which, needless to say, is very foggy and narrow.
What irks me the most about people like you, is that you see and swiftly conclude: there's no remedy for the prevailing situation. you don't see potential; nor care to lend an opinion to solve it.
You both seem to relish compararing DR children and what you have accomplished with your own. Well, congratulations!
Written by: RoyStone, 20 Jan 2012 8:48 AM
From: Australia
Ron,
When I first cane here I was horrified by the situation. Obviously I knew I could not make any difference in a national scale but thought I might make a difference in my immediate environment. There was some initial interest, perhaps because most had never known gringo before. I think they only got involved to please me. I soon learned they had no real interest in education or the environment. "Helping" with their English homework meant doing it for them, while they go to the bar, play with their motorbike, texting or chatting on their cell-phone, watch soap-operas, of whatever it is girls do with their hair for hours.
School is where you send your kids for the government to give them just enough education to get a job to contribute towards their, and their kids' board, and to get a uniform and a free meal. It is also to show what a good an prosperous parent you are by always being clean and hair immaculate and stylish.
From: Dominican Republic
Good point Ron... There are a lot of people out there that are "Self made" if I can call it that, as they were the one to take on the task of educating them self.. Can I ask what was it that gave you "drive" motivation"? Did you have a roll model? Someone you looked up to?
As I have said kids also need good roll models.. Be it sports stars that shows that anything can be achieved with hard work and determination, to a teacher that loves their job and shows it through their work...
The task of motivating parents and children to go to school and do well is not just fixed with money.
I for one would like to see TV/radio stations running campaigns showing good roll models talking about going to school and working hard and what can be achieved with a good education... It is something I have been talking to my sister in law about as she is on TV and Radio and is well known here...
It was no accident that wrestling and sports stars in the US were saying "Stay in school. Say no to drug"
Written by: RoyStone, 20 Jan 2012 8:57 AM
From: Australia
If it rains, they get up late, hair is not good, no petrol for the motorbike to go 1 Km, haven't done homework or a cousin is visiting are good enough excuses to stay home. Yet missing some distant relative's funeral is unthinkable. Kids spend less than 16% of their waking hours at school, and many parents the same at work. These are just annoying interruptions to otherwise perpetual play-time. If there is a job to be done, usually there is some poor bastard poorer than you, you can pay to do it for you, and never work and pay for something if you can steal it from the government, or some rich bastard that unlike you, does not deserve to be rich.
Written by: RoyStone, 20 Jan 2012 9:14 AM
From: Australia
stillhere, some good points re role-models, but don't overlook or underestimate the molecular level - its called DNA. What's in their genes (no, not jeans).
As for TV stations, their responsibility is to their shareholders, not their viewers. That means attracting advertisers, which means chasing ratings, which means serving up what people want, not what they need - soap-operas, cartoons, violence and sport, with a tiny sprinkling of news.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Jan 2012 9:54 AM
From: United States, NYC
Yes and no Roy.
From: United States
i notice that Atabey, having read the last series of postings from Mr Rancier, RoyStone, and RonEvane, regarding education being a product of motivation, desire, achievement aspirations, personal discipline, and such other PERSONAL factors, has gone silent. the best he can do is to offer the equivocal answer "yes and no, Roy". he cannot say why it is yes, and why it is no. maybe , his silence, however temporary, will give him the opportunity to produce the FIGURE that i asked him for, 7 days ago.
From: United States
Written by: juanb, 19 Jan 2012 1:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I hope that the readers here do not miss the best post of all due to all the infighting between Dready and Atabe
juanb, i apologize to the board for allowing myself to descend into the sewer with Atabey. he has turned the subject into a slime pit, because it is his comfort zone. i asked the guy for a figure 7 days ago, but, instead of compiling it, he spends time bringing Jamaica into the thread, because he thinks that somehow, i will feel hurt. he thinks this is a game, referring to the "pela he gave to the jamaiquino". he has a serious personality disorder, which only the aforementioned nice men in nice white suits , can address.
From: United States
Written by: MrThelmoAlmeydaRancier, 19 Jan 2012 7:09 PM
From: United States, NJ
To start with I agree with you.Nevertheless in the Tri-State area of NY,NJ,CT there is a big drop out % of DR kids that never finished HS, that were given the opportunities that you mentioned above and they did not take it..Girls of DR back ground that left school because they were pregnant,and her parents instead of supporting them, kicked them out, forcing them to apply for
welfare when the boyfriend walked out on her."You could take a horse to water but can't force him
to drink it".
i believe i used the same analogy, sometime in the past. lead the horse to the water, and he will not drink. so, Atabey, what do you think of that remark, seing that it was made by a Dominican, and not a Jamaiquino? besides , Mr Rancier, if money was the determinant, then all ethnic groups in the same school would get the same test results. we all know that Asians excel, in the main, and Latinos are behind the curve.
From: United States
additional money wil not fix that. at least , not to my thinking. unless someone can prove to me that Asians can get by on less educational assets, while Latino students need more , and better, equipment, teachers, books, and methodologies.
Written by: RoyStone, 20 Jan 2012 12:18 PM
From: Australia
Dready,
There is a standard joke amongst Caucasian Australian school-kids:
Question: How do you know if an Asians student has broken in to your home?
Answer: The cat's missing and your homework's been done!
From: United States
kinda fits into my theme. well, not so sure about just the cat. the dog, too..i hardly see kids here breaking into your home, and doing your homework.
Written by: RonEvane, 20 Jan 2012 2:20 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Mr. Roy & Mr. Dread.
According to you, nothing can possibly mend the "mind-set, culture and genetic make-up". in our people. All is lost.! .Those that care much for our nation's and children's' future, should just face reality and give it up!...It's all an exercise in futility! Our young people just want to hang and party.
Generally, that's true for the older teens. But no such thing as genetic predisposition to stay dumb, nor is there a "mind set" that keeps them that way.
I can understand your frustration in witnessing the terrible waste in potential in our youth. I see it too. I also see the "carry on", neglectful attitudes most parents have regarding education.
For the most part, the older generation, can't be counted on. But the new generation can be molded into the right shape by our govt, or private institutions by simply creating the proper, suitable environment for mental growth.
But it takes money. The money can be had. The willpower is what's lacking. ....Alas!
From: United States
Ron, lt me take this opportinity to clarify my position on the state of education in the DR. i have stated, and will maintain, that UNTIL the attitude changes towards education, wherein people realize that it is, probably, the most important input for social, personal, and economic development, no amount of additional money can fix it. putting lipstick on a pig does not make it a candidate for a beauty contest. more importantly, i have NEVER suggested that it cannot change, or, be changed. here is my thinking. whenever there is an election, of any kind, there is a handful of aspirants, and a gazillion voters. most people are followers. they want, and need, to be led. they are like sheep. this is true of the DR, the USA, Germany, France, Burkina Fasso, Cape Verde.many followers, few leaders.even when the leaders are patently useless, people follow them, with unfaltering dedication. should leadership ever come along, which turns the education morass into a battlefield,
From: United States
and that it will be a case of all hands on deck, with no stones unturned, in order to fix the mess, the followers will get the point. the orientals are not genetically disposed to high levels of achievement motivation. they have been SOCIALIZED to place their emphasis on thrift, delayed gratification, and personal, and social, discipline. their leaders recognize the fact that economic development is the only means to bringing about real social progress, and that no development can eventuate in a situation of educational deficit. that is why a government such as South Korea´s set the tone, direction, requirements, and syllabuses for education in that country, including MORAL education. their Confucian ethic lubricates the process, but they have been LED into believing that everything starts with education. until our leaders follow suit, and desist from using education as a job placement program for their friends, family members, and miscellaneous concubines,
From: United States
nothing positive will happen. all the gold in Fort Knox will have no positive effect on the status quo
Written by: RonEvane, 20 Jan 2012 7:18 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
well put sir, understood and agree fully.
From: United States
thank you, sir.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Jan 2012 7:36 PM
From: United States, NYC
and that it will be a case of all hands on deck, with no stones unturned, in order to fix the mess, the followers will get the point. the orientals are not genetically disposed to high levels of achievement motivation. they have been SOCIALIZED to place their emphasis on thrift, delayed gratification, and personal, and social, discipline. their leaders recognize the fact that economic development is the only means to bringing about real social progress, and that no development can eventuate in a situation of educational deficit. that is why a government such as South Korea´s set the tone, direction, requirements, and syllabuses for education in that country, including MORAL education. their Confucian ethic lubricates the process, but they have been LED into believing that everything starts with education. until our leaders follow suit, and desist from using education as a job placement program for their friends, family members, and miscellaneous concubines, -dready
Written by: Atabey, 20 Jan 2012 7:37 PM
From: United States, NYC
i have stated, and will maintain, that UNTIL the attitude changes towards education, wherein people realize that it is, probably, the most important input for social, personal, and economic development, no amount of additional money can fix it. putting lipstick on a pig does not make it a candidate for a beauty contest. more importantly, i have NEVER suggested that it cannot change, or, be changed. here is my thinking. whenever there is an election, of any kind, there is a handful of aspirants, and a gazillion voters. most people are followers. they want, and need, to be led. they are like sheep. this is true of the DR, the USA, Germany, France, Burkina Fasso, Cape Verde.many followers, few leaders.even when the leaders are patently useless, people follow them, with unfaltering dedication. should leadership ever come along, which turns the education morass into a battlefield, -dready
From: United States
i see where Atabey is in the process of a complete meltdown. copying and pasting the postings of someone else in the site is a sure sign of mental disorders. i said it before, that he is not playing with a full deck
Written by: Atabey, 21 Jan 2012 1:46 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: dreadlocks, 20 Jan 2012 11:30 AM
From: United States
i notice that Atabey, having read the last series of postings from Mr Rancier, RoyStone, and RonEvane, regarding education being a product of motivation, desire, achievement aspirations, personal discipline, and such other PERSONAL factors, has gone silent. the best he can do is to offer the equivocal answer "yes and no, Roy". he cannot say why it is yes, and why it is no. maybe , his silence, however temporary, will give him the opportunity to produce the FIGURE that i asked him for, 7 days ago."
Well Dready a good father takes care of personal business FIRST before trying to educate misguided posters like YOU. Remember, it's Hockey season!
But as all reasonably intelligent posters will note, I HAVE NEVER STATED THE CONTRARY WITH RESPECTS TO EDUCATION STARTING AT HOME! NEVER.
But we all know how Your lack of argument skills descend into emotional outburst. Try posting cogent sourced evidence next time.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Jan 2012 2:08 PM
From: United States, NYC
What you Dready have ALWAYS FAILED TO ACKNOWLEDGE is that the serious lack of overall EDUCATION coverage in the Dominican Republic CAN NOT be corrected with ONLY 2.3% of GDP!
Even Roy has stated otherwise on a number of posts. You continue with your whining about "give me a breakdown on how these funds will be spent" The crux of the issue is NOT THERE, but in the overall REQUIREMENT and Acknowledgement that SIGNIFICANT spending increases ARE INDISPENSABLE to get the Dominican Republic up to par with her regional competitors and provide for a nation equipped to handle the future with confidence.
How much funding goes to school construction, teacher salaries, administrators, materials, etc., IS beyond the expertise of anyone here at DT to pinpoint. But what is truly NOT beyond reasonable minded people to acknowledge is the overall NECESSITY of increasing spending over time to arrive at a truly UNIVERSAL SYSTEM OF EDUCATIONAL COVERAGE, K-12, in DR.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Jan 2012 2:20 PM
From: United States, NYC
And funny that Jamaica and Costa Rica, both with far better educated populations than the DR, have Incredibly! spent MORE THAN 5% of GDP consistently, and sometimes far more so, 7% of GDP, on education!
Wow!
Earth to Dready, please tell us why DR should not position itself to spend significantly MORE of her GDP to educate her people.
From: United States
just the facts, Atabey, just the facts. where is my figure?
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jan 2012 11:08 AM
From: United States, NYC
How much funding goes to school construction, teacher salaries, administrators, materials, etc., IS beyond the expertise of anyone here at DT to pinpoint. But what is truly NOT beyond reasonable minded people to acknowledge is the overall NECESSITY of increasing spending over time to arrive at a truly UNIVERSAL SYSTEM OF EDUCATIONAL COVERAGE, K-12, in DR.
From: United States
just the facts, Atabey. give me the figure, and stop telling me about what is beyond people´s expertise. we know it is beyond YOUR expertise, so speak for yourself, only. some of us can divide 4 by 2. some of us think that stats is calculus.
From: United States
i wish i could decipher what Atabey is talking about, but , unfortunately, he is so ignorant and simplistic, he bewilders me. i have no idea whether he is referring to , be it quantity, or quality, of education. come to think of it, neither does he. he seems to equate putting more bodies in a classroom with improving education. poor soul.
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 11:49 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jan 2012 11:59 AM
From: United States, NYC
The only woodshed Dready knows is the one You and Him occupied. Messaging each other is getting to be all too familiar. LOL
What's strange is that I've actually made your argument in this debate over funding for education in DR! That 2.3% of GDP just will not cut it! Not for a truly Universal system of K-12 education! And yet you would rather tag-team with Dready-remember his country Jamaica has consistently devoted some 5-7% of GDP to education!
Why am I not impressed by your take on this matter Josean? Be a mensch for once and stand on your two feet. This is not the deep blue waters of the Forum.
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 12:15 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"The only woodshed Dready knows is the one You and Him occupied. Messaging each other is getting to be all too familiar. LOL"
Atabey,
You really should look into to dealing with your obsession with male genital and your latent homosexuality.
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 12:19 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"What's strange is that I've actually made your argument in this debate over funding for education in DR! That 2.3% of GDP just will not cut it! Not for a truly Universal system of K-12 education"
Atabey,
You also might want to consider reining in your ego a little bit and tone down the grandiosity as you are becoming a legend in your own mind!
From: United States
Josean, you should also list his fixation with human excreta. then again, one poster characterized him as a turd.
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 12:23 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"Why am I not impressed by your take on this matter Josean?"
Aatbey,
Here we have something in common, just with a slight variation, as I am not impressed with "Your Take" on ANY MATTER!
From: United States
Atabey, since you have this simplistic , reductionist postulate , that improvement in educational achievement is a function of expenditure, would you mind explaining to us why it is that in a multiethnic school, some ethnic groups perform better than others? surely, even though you live in some distant beyond, where information comes slowly, you must have heard of the performance gaps between Asian students, and Latino and African Americans, in public schools. even one so dense as yourself will surely not suggest that the problem lies in funding. then again, given your track record, i would not be surprised if you tried to make such an argument.
From: United States
Atabey has no take, on any matter. his only take is to copy and paste the work of people who actually do something about learning something. then he jumps on his hobby horse. Costa Rica is his new discovery. who knows what next week will bring.
From: United States
Education in Latin America
Most Latin American constitutions promise education for all the people.
But an Inter-American Development Bank study in 1998 observed that
“guarantees of universal primary education in Latin America have
come false entitlements for the poor: the education available to them
has been of such poor quality as to be of little real bene?t.” The study
continued that “low and unequal accumulation of human capital can
be stated more simply: public education has not reached the poor in
Latin America. A major culprit in this failure is a model of social service
delivery that has re?ected and reinforced social, economic and political
inequities.” That delivery system includes state-run education monop-
olies and unions that often seem to have limited interest in the educa-
tion of students.
From: United States
The 1998 study concluded that, “despite adequate
public spending, accumulation of human capital in Latin America has
been low and inequitable . . . the distribution of education has hardly
improved over time.”
see the last sentence, Atabey? despite adequate funding? or, maybe you wish to debate this matter with the researchers at the IADB? just remember, before you start, that their guys can count to ten.
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jan 2012 1:23 PM
From: United States, NYC
Dready,
You will continue your tired and asinine take til the end. Just remember that NO WHERE has it ever been witnessed that one can take a substandard, lowly educated populace of a developing nation and turn it into a unified and broad based coverage universal educational system WITH 2.3% of GDP funding! Not ONE CASE.
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jan 2012 1:25 PM
From: United States, NYC
A blast from the past!
"According to Ambassador Crimmins, the roots of the country’s problems, including the “problems of political underdevelopment which have plagued the Dominican Republic throughout its history,” lay in either “ignorance or ineptness,” and educational reform was therefore likely to be “a sine qua non of Dominican modernization.”
The US threat would ultimately prove hollow, however, for Balaguer would neither reconsider the country’s industrial incentive regime, abandon exchange rate parity, nor meet AID’s revenue and spending goals in his first three terms in office (i.e., between 1966 and 1978). While the percentage of overall spending devoted to education and health care increased slightly in 1969 and 1970, it began to fall thereafter (see Fig. 1), and Balaguer’s revenue agents never came close to collecting 20 percent of the country’s gross domestic product—the widely accepted minimum needed by an activist developing country government."
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jan 2012 1:27 PM
From: United States, NYC
"Thus, the Dominican Republic missed a window of export opportunity, for at the close of the 1960s “Latin America fell off the mental map of high Washington officials,” and East Asia’s newly industrializing countries (NICs) began to consolidate their position at the forefront of the so-called new international division of labor (NIDL). The Dominican Republic may well have been able to compete with the NICs, but Law 299 encouraged native investors to concentrate on the easy fruits of the local market rather than the risks and rewards of the world market; the maintenance of exchange rate parity compromised the free zone sector’s ability to attract foreign investment and compete overseas; and the wholly inadequate education and health care systems undermined the prospects for export upgrading and thereby relegated the country to an unenviable position at the bottom of the NIDL."
2.3% of GDP does not produce a modern nation-state. Punto y Final!
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 1:30 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"A blast from the past!"
I wonder who has used that phrase here at DT before.
The say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 1:32 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
Oh! God please no! Not back to the "missed window of opportunity" again!
Where is Biometrics when you need it!
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jan 2012 1:52 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 1:30 PM
From: United States
"A blast from the past!"
I wonder who has used that phrase here at DT before.
The say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!"
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov was correct. Now be circumspect and allow the grown ups to discuss the matter.
From: United States
i spent a good bit of time on the Balaguer issue, planning to post it, and put an end to the foolishness from Atabey, regarding his assertion that it was Paradise Lost. it was a great personal venture, but i have decided against posting it. i have no time to get into discussions with a guy who has no concept of economics, world trade, and development strategy. rather than get my blood pressure up, deflecting moronics from a know nothing, i will leave Atabey in his state of protracted ignorance, where he is most happy, and comfortable. at least i have learnt a lot, for my own edification.
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jan 2012 2:02 PM
From: United States, NYC
Nor was the legacy of anti-export bias easily overcome. The PRD governments of Antonio Guzmán and Salvador Jorge Blanco would ultimately adopt AID’s principal recommendations by cultivating the IFZ sector, abandoning exchange rate parity, and increasing educational spending in the late 1970s and early 1980s, but their efforts would prove too little too late. While the peso’s 1985 devaluation would give birth to a manufactured export boom which would continue all but unabated until the end of the century, it would neither eliminate the country’s dualistic industrial development regime nor facilitate backward linkages from the IFZs. Thus, the majority of the Dominican Republic’s 500 export-oriented manufacturers remain confined to low value added sectors, including apparel and footwear, and import their inputs from overseas; and the island nation is therefore forced to compete by maintaining low wages rather than by creating a positive sum game of wage, profit, and productivity increases
Written by: Atabey, 22 Jan 2012 2:05 PM
From: United States, NYC
“Development by Invitation” in the Dominican Republic: A Negative Case Analysis
Andrew Schrank
The best known works on the 1965 United States occupation of the Dominican Republic conclude with the presidential elections of 1966, and thereby forfeit a valuable opportunity to explore the social and political underpinnings of economic success and failure in the contemporary developing world. After all, the US government made a concerted but ultimately unsuccessful effort to impose an outward oriented, East Asian-style development regime on the Dominican Republic in the late 1960s. Why was the U.S. effort stillborn?
(1) the US effort to promote export led-industrialization (ELI) in the Dominican Republic in the late 1960s, (2) President Joaquín Balaguer’s response to the US effort, and (3) their broader theoretical implications.
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 2:12 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
He is on a roll, downward roll that is!
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 2:34 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"Now be circumspect and allow the grown ups to discuss the matter.'
Ok!
Dread and Roy please continue!
From: United States
Written by: josean, 22 Jan 2012 2:12 PM
From: United States
He is on a roll, downward roll that is!
really, Josean? how do you roll downward, when you are already at the bottom?
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Jan 2012 1:56 PM
From: Australia
Hey!
You guys just don't understand how this country can be heading for a bio-metrically-led economic boom.
(ummm nor do I)
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Jan 2012 2:01 PM
From: Australia
From: United States
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Jan 2012 2:01 PM
From: Australia
Hey Atebey, I have a lead for you -
Talk to Risom - he's in the market for some biometrics - look!
Atabey is no longer in the biometrics business. he is now the Public Relations Officer for Costa Rica.
From: Canada
Biometrics business? red herring ....
From: United States, NJ
The DR that I left behind as a 12 yrs old child is so diferent from the one I see now,but on reverse.
The present kids in DR wants to compete with the GRINGO style in dressing as well as miss
missbehavior,and on top of that gets demanding from parents who are factory workers by
majority by trade When I left the Island all kids were dress on uniform at least up to the 8th
grade,which was good.All the material and uniform was made local.
There was no diference between the poor and less poor.Once they started emigrating to Gringo
land and bringing back home all the bad habbits thus learned and their parents condoling them,
the country became a mimick. Those trips back home on their summer vacation to show off to
their friends what they had and the local could not afford. That is why I say foreign influeced had a
lot to do with non-education as well as too much freedom.When they did not know what freedom
was.
From: United States
Mr Rancier, there is very little that i can add to that. yes, it is peculiar that when people go to live in foreign lands, too many of them pick up the worst that the societies have to offer, and not the positive aspects. why in God´s name do young men here have to be dressing with their pants half way down their ass, showing off their underwear? when i first came here, 20 years ago, the kids wre just as poor, but had pride, and respect, for themselves, and for others. today, anarchy rules. you cannot go very far with these new ideas.
Written by: Atabey, 26 Jan 2012 8:23 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: dreadlocks, 26 Jan 2012 7:54 PM
From: United States
m"
Dready,
Your best comment so far.
But I agree with both that these half way down pants are a most idiotic and stupid compliment the young pay-unknowingly for some- to their prison buddies. For it was in the USA jail system that such style of pants wear got its beginnings. Or did they copy it from Cantinflas?
No doubt a firmer hand but one that adheres to modernity in other fields and respect for the rule of law would greatly redeem DR and many other places. I wouldn't hold my breath on this coming anytime soon.
From: United States, NJ
Dread
That startred in jaill ,prison had it down exposing their asses so thei inmates knew he was available.
Must kids don't know that and that is why they mimick the rest otherwise they don't belong.
I could only know by my pass in DR . Under Trujillo that was never a roll model to be with your
pants down to your ass. Maybe that is what is needed another Trujillo purely nattionalistc.
Furthermore I don't feel this adds to the moral of the majority of kids.On the cotrary it takes away.
I think it was Roy that mentioned it or Atabey that television should be selected as it is in other
countries. There too much violence and fistisious movies out there that the kids pick up. I also
agree that the quality of teachers is a must.
From: United States, NJ
I remember when mayor Cotch in NYC threatened the teacher assistant non-certified bi-lingual,
to import Spaniard teachers for the salaries they were demanding. I believe then to be US$12,000
per year.They thought he was kidding untill he started replacing them by qualify Spanish teachers. They finally came into some agreements . The so call bi-lingual teachers claimed the
kids did not uinderstand that kind of Spanish,therefore the parents protested agaist it along
with teachers and kids ,probably paid by the teachers union,because they knew they would follow.
I don't know how they allow teachers as a start w/o a post graduate in teaching just because they
don't want to pay the salary. They take them in with a bachelorate degree and give them 5 years to
get the post graduate .
For the salary a policeperson gets they should also make it mandatory to have at least a Bachelorate degree at start,instead of a HS diploma.
.
From: United States
actually, the reason why the pants in prison droop down the crotch is because you take what you get. they do not bother to measure you. so, you can have a 36 waist, and they just hand you a pair of 44 pants.
From: Dominican Republic
ooooooohhh my god really... because they are available.......... the pants thing is because you can not have a belt in prison.....and the same with the laceless shoes...not as big now... hader to run from the cops with your shoes lose...ahahahah
From: United States
exactly, stillhere. they give you oversized pants, and you cannot keep them up with a belt, since belts are not allowed.
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Thank you for your concern and contribution for west side Mr. President, you brown nosing a-hole.
...with borrowed money!!
Again, the DR needs to adopt a Universal Education system paid for by a substantial increase in educational financing that addresses this historical problem. There is no getting away from facing the enormity and seriousness of this perennial problem. Unless addressed it has and will continue to cost the nation via much lower human productivity and creative output during their life time. And a continuation of many of the other social and cultural deficiencies we all want corrected in DR would result.
You cannot create a modern and developed society with so many of your people illiterate and under-educated. If a smaller nation like Costa Rica has achieved far better results, spending a higher % of their GDP on education, we can too.
Discontinue subsidies to energy moochers, get that 60% of the economy that is not formalized paying taxes and instead subsidize K-12 educational opportunities.
1...he is too lazy to involve himself in the simple mental gymnastics needed to arrive at the figure
2...he does not know the method to use to get him there.
personally, i am disposed to believe it is a case of both. trhat having been said, let us hypothesize that the figure is 1000 dollars per student, per budget. i am using that number for economy of calculation. is that sufficient to make any significant difference? what if it is too extravagant? let us remember the concept of competing interests, in a situation of finite funds. how does it stack up with his new hobby horse, Costa Rica? is it more than theirs, or is it less?
all the above issues address the quantitative dimensions of the education question, and not the QUALITATIVE side of the equation. putting asses in seats is not the issue. the children who fared so dismally in thescholastic achievement testing ARE IN SCHOOL. the fact that they fared so poorly is due to the content of what they are, or, are not,learning. the question is whether or not 5%, 8% ,20%, or 50% can fix that.
Thank you Trujillo for destroying the little bit of an education system we had on June 16, 1954,
http://www.concordatwatch.eu/show....p?org_id=891&kb_header_id=887
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia....616_concordato-dominicana_sp.html
But especially a BIG SHOUT OUT to Lie-onel Fernandez and the PLD Mafia for spitting on the Grave of Juan Bosch by continuing the with the Medieval Nefarious Concordat which has destroyed the educational possibility for millions of Dominican children now and for generations to come!.
Moved so you will not have to strain your eyes!
What will NEVER solve the problem is to NOT SPEND funds on education.
Dready, you say that these stats are from those children IN SCHOOL. My question: what do you imagine the stats say for those tens of thousands of children THAT AREN'T IN SCHOOL?
Please tell us what country has ever solved its illiteracy by spending 2% OR LESS of GDP in history?
"Education spending is the largest among all government expenditures in Asia, accounting
for 20 percent. It is not surprising that Asia has the highest quality of human capital among
regions."
Dready,
How about answering the question for a change:
The data was NOT divided into national results. And that's my point! It stated that LATIN AMERICA! as a region witnessed this result. Now if you happen to have the data for the DR, please provide it or find another theory.
Again, WHERE IS THE DATA FOR THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC?
NOT THE REGION, THE NATION!
Gotcha!
Josean, listen and stay quiet, you might learn something.
This is how you take down an opponent's argument: show people he's trying to pull wool over their eyes. Dready thinks people are too lazy to actually read the study and UNDERSTAND the results!
So Dready, where is the data for the DR? You know, the one that states-ACCORDING TO YOU-that additional spending on education is negatively correlated with economic growth in DR?
"Results are shown in Table 6. Regression 1 (R1) reports results by region when structural
adjustment variables SA,t are excluded, while regression 2 (R2) reports those with SA,t included.
The labor and capital coefficients are positive and statistically significant for all regions. For
government expenditures on agriculture, coefficients are positive and statistically significant in
Africa and Asia. For Latin America, the coefficient is insignificant although positive. For
education expenditure, the coefficients are positive and statistically significant only in Asia.
This indicates that continued education investment in Asia will contribute greatly to GDP growth.
Coefficients for Africa and Latin America are negative." [page 22, http://www.ifpri.org/sites/defaul....s/divs/eptd/dp/papers/eptdp99.pdf]
"go read some text, and learn something , for a change. read the following
Government Spending in Developing Countries..Trends, Causes, and Consequences. it is a working paper, based on cross country regressions in Asia, Africa, and Latin America. let me warn you that it has several passages of boring calculus. make that econometric modelling. the finding is that only in Asia do the coefficients have a positive correlation. in Africa, and Latin America, they are NEGATIVE. one country, to which i alluded , is Nigeria, which has spent tremendous amounts on education, with nothing to show for it. maybe you would care to opine as to why this will be different in the DR?"
Dready, The DT audience await your response or will you go hide in your cave?
cerveza, taxi, fiesta, cabana, disco, and gallera
Does anyone know what is the public to priavte school student ratio?
Boys and Girls you need good lighting to read!
Thank you Trujillo for destroying the little bit of an education system we had on June 16, 1954,
http://www.concordatwatch.eu/show....p?org_id=891&kb_header_id=887
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia....616_concordato-dominicana_sp.html
But especially a BIG SHOUT OUT to Lie-onel Fernandez and the PLD Mafia for spitting on the Grave of Juan Bosch by continuing the with the Medieval Nefarious Concordat which has destroyed the educational possibility for millions of Dominican children now and for generations to come!.
PS
The rate of functional literacy is probably another 50 to 60% in a conservative guesstimate;myself included!
This indicates that continued education investment in Asia will contribute greatly to GDP growth.
Coefficients for Africa and Latin America are negative." [page 22,
do you know what it means, in statistics, when they say that the coefficients are negative? it means that there seems to be no correlation between expenditure, and positive externalities. that is my argument. i do not need you to help me make it by making remarks you do not understand.
NOT THE REGION, THE NATION!
regression analysis is done for a group of countries, not individual ones. that is why it is called ¨cross country regression¨. nobody stated that the figures for the Dominican Republic will jive with the regression. there are some samples which will deviate from the mean. however, since we do not have the figures, we cannot speculate, either way. i am not saying that the correlations will be negative. my statement is that the there is no CAUSATIVE correlation between expenditure and positive results. in some instances, it is positive, in others it is not. why do i bother? it is too late in the day for you to understand elementary statistics, anyway.
Here’s what I think will work to resolve DR’s educational stagnation:
As we all know, money is at the root of all good. We must have money to provide education. But how or where do we get this money? I have a few ideas:
(1) Establish a non-profit, national lottery for the sole purpose of amassing funds for the repair of existing schools, building new ones and attracting qualified teaching staff.
(2) Hosting retired, degreed teachers from all over the world to come do a “labor of love” in DR. They will be provided with suitable accommodations, safe food and a small spending stipend.
(3) Gently convince the hospitality industry operating here, to hold sweepstakes in other nations, for all-inclusive free stays in DR… All moneys will go to the “Educateour littleones.com.do”
(4) These firms can boast “We’ve done our part for our children” and have the added support of many an NGO and other charitable organizations. It’ll be a classy symbiotic relationship!..More..
Dready, The DT audience await your response or will you go hide in your cave?
i will NEVER run away from a question that you ask. NEVER. you must be thinking of yourself. maybe i should post a list of all the questions i asked you, which you never answered. starting with the ones THIS WEEK.. you think this is some game, in which you can outfence me. that is only in your mind, since the readership knows who has some idea of the subject matter, and who is just an irritant, posing as being knowledgeable. i asked you to tell me how much 4% of GDP translates into actual spending per student, and you have not even hinted that you wish to answer. then you have the nerve to think that i am afraid of questions from YOU? the guy who has a BBA, that had no statistics courses? i don´t think so.
(5) Once the government sees that people are taking matters into their own hands, it will want to be part of this rebuilding… Politicians, (as we all know), will sway with the breeze. They’ll want to take credit for all the good that’s already happening…Let them, who cares.
(6) The govt will only be too happy to please and go with the flow. We’ll demand an eight hour curriculum, a school breakfast and lunch, many sports program, (exercise body and mind), and finally, much better pay for native, qualified teachers, etc…. and we’ll get it!
Note:
It is of absolute importance to keep the religious fanatics out of this equation. They’ll want to impose their skewed beliefs and prevent us from teaching the sciences and sex education. It is extremely important to weight the consequences of unwanted pregnancies and STD’s!
That said. I don’t want to hear the morons in this forum, blabber their retarded BS about corruption and Lie-onel! If you have nothing constructive to add or have a better idea to add or change, stay the fluke out!!
That's what the 1954 Concordat is about. Follow Josean's link for a copy. It's in Spanish and for ignoramuses like me who don't know Spanish, it Google-translates very well - including the prayer at the end which is in Latin. This Concordat should be compulsory reading for all Dominicans, especially currently-practicing Catholics.
I wonder how many Dominicans in 1954 knew Latin, or had access to Google-translate.
Still you don't need to understand what the priest is mumbling - just repeat it, put you tithe in the plate, attend confession and eternity in heaven with Jesus is yours.
You many not have noticed, but I often disagree with Josean, and have even taken him to task at times. However he brings a lot of interesting information to this site. For example, the 1954 Concordat is very relevant and I was not aware of it until he led me to it.
I only wish he'd give us smaller things to read as I have a short attention-span.
Now if you are looking for "something to keep you occupied", maybe you an do a little job for me?
It involves sex and travel.
Interested?
Good.
then Fu(k off!
Many of the kids are doomed long before their 1st day at school.
The 3 most important things are 1) attitude, 2) attitude and 3) attitude.
After those come opportunity, money, facilities, etc.
Error
NOT THE REGION, THE NATION!
regression analysis is done for a group of countries, not individual ones. that is why it is called ¨cross country regression¨. nobody stated that the figures for the Dominican Republic will jive with the regression. there are some samples which will deviate from the mean. however, since we do not have the figures, we cannot speculate, either way. i am not saying that the correlations will be negative. my statement is that the there is no CAUSATIVE correlation between expenditure and positive results. in some instances, it is positive, in others it is not. why do i bother? it is too late in the day for you to understand elementary statistics, anyway."-Dread
Dready,
You are in total denial. You USED a Regional result to argue for a specific, the Dominican Republic, actor. Don't you see the fallacy in that?
We weren't arguing regional results idiot, but for one specific nation: the Dominican Republic!
If you can't, then look for another study because this one doesn't provide ANY NATION SPECIFIC COUNTRY DATA ONLY REGIONAL ONES!
Don't hide, produce the specific Dominican data.
-----------
Josean,
Please allow the adults some space. Listen and be quiet.
Things seem to be clearing up!
"No one stated that the figures for the Dominican republic will jive with the regression."
Hahahaha!
You are an idiot Dread! Take a look at our argument and check out this quote:
"the finding is that only in Asia do the coefficients have a positive correlation. in Africa, and Latin America, they are NEGATIVE. one country, to which i alluded , is Nigeria, which has spent tremendous amounts on education, with nothing to show for it. maybe you would care to opine as to why this will be different in the DR?"
Now ask yourself: why did you
Why to add an academic source to back up YOUR position that additional spending on education IN THE DR WOULD NOT PRODUCE POSITIVE ECONOMIC RETURNS!!! Only in Asia is additional educational funding positively correlated with economic growth. In Latin America and in Africa they are not.
That's what you were trying to establish, but you believed that no one would bother to read and understand the academic study. Perhaps you were thinking of Josean?
Perhaps you missed this part of the study you tried to pass off as supporting your proposition:
"Education spending is the largest among all government expenditures in Asia, accounting
for 20 percent. It is not surprising that Asia has the highest quality of human capital among
regions."
Show us at DT a study that supports YOUR THEORY that additional educational spending IN DR, will be negatively correlated with economic growth.
That was and continues to elude your idiotic musings.
Roy,
What many of my countrymen/woman fail to understand or don’t want to understand is that we have very serious and fundamental structural problems in our society inherited from our colonial, neocolonial and dictatorial history that prevent any type of profound reform from occurring unless those impediments are done away with; and in the case of education from a “Medieval heritage” via the Concordat of 1954.
Many well intention people have tried, and many good ideas have been elaborated, including by many of the posters here at DT, such as Ron’s, however the superstructure of corruption and all it negative sub derivatives impede them from taking hold or seriously being given an opportunity.
It’s like trying to rehab a house when the fundamental structural integrity is non- existent or beyond repair. When you come to that realization and understanding you have to tear it down and start anew.
Continued:
The three most important things are: Money, money and more money.
Opportunities can be created and facilities can be repaired, or built.
A school can be much more than a building. It can be a community center where parents can meet to plan for a better neighborhood, A political arena to discuss ways to improve the local conditions, a place where decent folks can interact and unite, etc.
After that, attitudes change with what facilities have to offer. i,e.
The teaching caliber, sports; for those who love to play, a sure meal for neglected children, a safe, fun place to be instead of the street corner, etc.
For me, there's nothing more satisfying than meeting up with folks who know a hell of a lot more than I do. Here in Maryland, I find then in after-school events, or in functions programmed by the local library.
In DR, there are no such places....pity!
"When you come to that realization and understanding you have to tear it down and start anew."
Advocating Revolution! And do we have to wonder the leaning of this revolution to come? "Superstructure" Well, I guess with a term like that we all understand your vision.
Earth to Josean, Turning Commies ain't going to help the people of DR.
Yes, there were some schools constructed and some people received good education. BUT, the overwhelming number of Dominicans remained ill-housed, and ill-educated. Trujillo never envisioned a grand Universally educated populace. A cadet of well educated subordinates to help him administer and organize the republic for his interests YES.
As for the multitude in the rural areas of the nation, the ones that streamed down from the hills and mountains after his assassination in 1961 and created the massive barrios in Santo Domingo and other cities, these people were largely neglected in their educational advancement. Balaguer followed pretty much the same script with a bit more attention. But both leaders NEVER created a universal system of education. Juan Bosch did have this vision but never was allowed the opportunity to advance it.
Roy.
I don't give a rat's ass about what the Concordat, or any other relic of our past has to say.! No one or anything can dictate our future!..We're free to choose!
I'm talking about a grass-roots' movement to improve our children's life. One borne out of hard work and desire to see this out as a success, without government funds or interference.
I'm talking about grabbing our own reins, and leading our horse in on a path to educational victory.
When the politicos here can't or won't respond to our needs and basic necessities, it is time to stop complaining and start relying on ourselves.
I know the naysayers will try to defeat any and all effort to create an idea for improvement, but I don't give a shit about them. The reason we're in such dire straits, is because there are way too many of them in our nation and in this forum!!...Pessimists, eat your own vomit!
"I don't give a rat's ass about what the Concordat, or any other relic of our past has to say.! No one or anything can dictate our future!..We're free to choose!"
Roy or Atabey,
I will let you guys take a swing at the 35 mile per hour soft pitch right over the plate; even Ray Charles can hit that one out of the park!
Now please I ask you to take easy on him because around this time of night is when he apparently begins to hit the Bong heavily so the incoherence will begin to increase geometrically as the night goes on!
You may not like Josean but the truth simply cannot be hidden. Not everybody has a rosie picture of the future of our republic. Literacy rate has just DROPPED 2% in 2010. That's a sign of not moving forward but going backwards.
Ms/Mr. Belly
{"You may not like Josean but the truth simply cannot be hidden. Not everybody has a rosie picture of the future of our republic."}
"The truth" is all too obvious to most of us. We don't need anyone to ram it down our throat.
What we need, is to try and find solutions to the myriad problems facing our nation today.
We certainly don't need an obsessive/compulsive pessimist telling us it's gonna get worse, without suggesting even a hint of what can be done to alleviate whatever problems there are!
It's like someone constantly saying you're fat and ugly and not clue us in on what can be done to make it less so. It gets very tiring, and after a while, you take it as mockery and want to shoot the MF!!
Don't showcase my problems.! If you really like me, you'll find ways to suggest improvements...!
I'm not sure if the "truth" is that obvious to most of us. It certainly isn't obvious to the general public. I observe people's behavior as if there s no tomorrow - and maybe they're right.
The general acceptance of the appalling state of education in this country is confirmation of my point. The problem will not be addressed until there is widespread acceptance that there is one, and that real sacrifices must be made to fix it.
Happy New Year to all. I see that the conversations are as heated as usual.
Has anyone ever heard back from Double zeros? I think we chased him off into oblivion!
However,
Sad stats for the DR! But, I have been in much worse places in the world, and I still think there is potential as soon as corruption hits the highway. According to present polls, this may be a while yet.
Cheers dudes!
This is why only knowledge can save it and bring it up to world standards. But those in power either don't honestly know what an important part education plays in a nation's very survival, and future prosperity, or,.... the powers that be, are fully aware of the situation and decided that maintaining the status is much easier and cheaper than the alternative and advantageous to securing their superior strata.
This is why our children's education is too important to be left exclusively up to government to grow and expand exponentially. I will do my part to do this, (however small), when migrating back to my dear, DR.
"The truth" of the matter is, that DR's population at large, is oblivious to the state of our nation as a whole. A person can not know something he has not been exposed to, or taught about.
Most people there worry about how they're gonna make through the day, to give much thought to anything else.
You and most everyone here have a fairly good idea as to the sorry conditions prevalent in this nation today. I can't say the same for most other people who can't see the full scope of what goes on there and how the situation can improve dramatically if only they knew any better.
The "truth" is that most Dominicans don't know what the truth really is, and this is what it's all about...sad.
show me where is said it would be. this is the reason why i do not see any point arguing with you,because you are just too plain dumb to folow a simple argument. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID IT WOULD BE NEGATIVE IN THE DR CASE, or shut up! maybe , if you realy went to school, instead of just saying that you did, you could make some occasional sense
ZonaApache,
For someone who's Join Date: is 10 January 2011, 1:44 PM:
What’s really funny is that you write with the vernacular and in the style of the more seasoned multi-name user xenophobes and racist here on DT!
That’s quite interesting since although you’re joining Date is: 10 January 2011, 1:44 PM you appear with this posting almost two months earlier:
"Written by: ZonaApache, 26 Nov 2011 10:28 AM
From: United States
amen "
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....ral-America-against-shark-finning
From: United States
Josean,
"When you come to that realization and understanding you have to tear it down and start anew."
Advocating Revolution! And do we have to wonder the leaning of this revolution to come? "Superstructure" Well, I guess with a term like that we all understand your vision.
Atabey, are you in training for the defense of your heavyweight title of World's Dumbest Creature?
In characteristically wry and entertaining style, Oppenheimer pulled out a Singapore dollar to emphasize his point. On the back of the bill, the illustration included a university, students, and a classroom. At the bottom of the bill was written “education.”
“In Latin America, our bills have images of our past, such as farmers and past presidents and historical figures,” he said. “In other countries, the mindset doesn’t look at the past, it looks ahead.”
I would go as far as doubling that amount to US$2,000 per students per year.When lunch is thrown in administered by a professional nutrisionist. No one can learn on an empty stomach. The State should provide lunch for kids up to the 8th grade. same as NYC did for us up to the 8th grade ,from 1952 on up to 1975,then they went broke, but the politicians all got an increase in salary,as well as inferior teachers, when they came alone with the bi-lingual b/s.
If you emigrate to a country try to aborb their culture,don't impose yours at the expense of tax payers. I went to P.S.52 ,now it is called JUAN PABLO DUARTE.Now can you tell me what this DR patriot have to do with this . I rather change it to HOSTOS even thought was not DR but PR by birth ,did a lot for the LATIN AMERICAN countries in the field of education.
Wher the money is coming from :reduce the military by half . It is clear why COSTA RICA has a hiegher educational standard (NO MILITARY)!!!
{"Wher the money is coming from :reduce the military by half . It is clear why COSTA RICA has a hiegher educational standard (NO MILITARY)!!!"}
Why do we need a military, and if so, what are they good for?....I can't think of anything useful except as a gravitational center for illiterates and a parasitic niche for generals with an eight- grade education.
The army, for the most part, doesn't do what it's supposed to-- securing our border, for one-- Beyond that, it's hard to justify any other reason to maintain it. They're a corrupt institution whose part-time job is to harass and extort money from the people.
The navy, with it's antiquated, WWII vintage vessels, are more of a burden than a necessary tool.
They can do well with a few modern, smaller ships to combat drug smuggling. The same can be said for the air force. As it is right now, the Toucan planes is all it needs to do the same. The rest is dead weight on the economy and a big burden to shoulder.
Very well put together .Does any one knows the expenditure incurred on the DR tax payers by having such an illiterate military force? ,beside the indirect result of their useless presence !
All they are good for is to bring on to this world is illegitimate kids at the expence again of the tax payers,by increasing the population explotion ,forcing that girl to do it again with some one else that will provide for a while and so on & on.They could never be found to bring them to justice for a damage inflicted on the local ignorant population, that thinks the uniform makes a diference among men. Again that is not their fault since they lack education and the minister of JUSTICE does nothing abot it. All these would come to an end if the so call gvt passes a law that stipulates that all new born must have a father and he should care for him/her up to the age of 18 like here.
Written by: MrThelmoAlmeydaRancier, 14 Jan 2012 3:21 PM
From: United States, NJ
RonEvane:
Very well put together .Does any one knows the expenditure incurred on the DR tax payers by having such an illiterate military force
i wholeheartedly agree with you, Mr Rancier. RonEvane hit many nails on the head. i have no beef with expanding the education budget, as Atabey might believe. my questions are ¨what will the money be spent on¨? will it be used to build spectacular school buildings, as part of the legacy of egomaniac leaders, such as the parking lot at UASD? if it is used for current expenditure, will the staff be chosen from the ranks of political favorites, who can barely read, and write? will the people who make the syllabus of studies continue to include antiquated courses, which are not relevant to today´s economic and social realities? the whole system needs a makeover, in THINKING. it should not be just a milk cow
Ihave said this before but it does eem to me that there is absolutely no educational planning in the DR and that this is the first priority ..If you go to a medium sized town in the poorer NE of Thailand you always can see a large high school with a soccerfield and other facilities ,,but here there may be 20 small schools all with no facilities, teacher shortages, classroom shortages...There is no planning and we do need a minister or President who can turn the education system into something much more modern
There are 20 small schools in a small area because many Dominican children are too fat to walk more than 100 meters to a bigger central school.
Ihave said this before but it does eem to me that there is absolutely no educational planning in the DR and that this is the first priority
there is no planning in anything. tourism is the prime example of something that has tremendous potential to develop the economy, and has done next to nothing, because they put it together , without any planning.
Costa Rica has no military. Why does the Dominican Republic need one? Who with more than a dug-out canoe and a machete would want to take this country?
"Census: 13% of the population is illegitimate"
And thought that can't be right - 13% unplanned babies born out of wedlock (politically-incorrect term, bastards).
The rate is more like 50%, and that's both a cause and an effect of such appalling education statistics. Yet this society not only condones it, it encourages it. Case in point - the 16-year-old illiterate peasant-girl given a house by the government for having a baby about the time of the world reaching 7 billion.
Ohhh no buddy, im not racist - i just don't like bitter haitians like you obsessed with DR. You critizice anything dominican, even when it's good news you seem to always find a way to flip it in to something negative; like most haitians. Pulling the race card won't work. Who are you to say anything about DR? is your country better of then Us? Why are you so bitter? It don't matter when i joined this blog, what does that have to do with anything? i joined because im dominican and i care about my country - What are you doing here other than showing how bitter you are? There is more illiterates in haiti than DR, more violence, more corruptiom - so why are you here ? you should take all that "knowledge" and "wisdom" to expose your haitian government that does absolutely nothing for your people - answer me that - don't change the subject and don't reply with something else that has nothing to do with this - haitians like you should be the last people to open their mouth.
"The truth" is all too obvious to most of us. We don't need anyone to ram it down our throat.
What we need, is to try and find solutions to the myriad problems facing our nation today.
RonEvane:
The main problem in DR is that people don't think the problem exist. Yeah you and a handful may have seen the statistics but most actually think there is no problem at all. So yes there are people who have to ram it down until it gets engraved in the general public inside DR that public education is a failure with NO ending in sight. You see you could come up with a master plan to fix it but unless people inside DR know there is a problem then the plan will get trashed.
Exactly!
And there a small but very powerful group that wants to keep it that way. They benefit enormously in a magnificently and extraordinary disproportionate way. Their agendas are to maintain a status quo that allows them to continue their rule and present conditions so they can continue to reproduce and thrive. They have no allegiance to country, to party or to religion. These are mere arenas or tools to achieve their ends. Their overwhelming control over all aspects daily life in politics, religion, economics is used to reproduce their values constantly and then with their propaganda machines they are the ones that RAM IT DOWN the throats of most of us.
Since a great majority of us have not had good educational opportunities, rarely do we develop the critical thinking skills to discern if what we are being fed directly (during the era of Trujillo) or more subliminally in the current “democratic” era is beneficial to the majority of Dominicans or not .
Con
So when many of us point out these contradictions we are upsetting what the privilege see ais their God given right to control the apple cart. This leads them to accuse us of being, negativists, against modernity, attacking the country etc. What is sad is that this propaganda has gained ground in the minds of many Dominicans even the “educated” ones and they also use this rhetoric of attack to help perpetuate the conditions that are detrimental to them, as they are to the majority of their fellow citizens.
Continued:
Sometimes I think they do this out frustration and feeling of impotence, that the problems are so many and complex that is more comfortable mentally to deny them and shoot down those that bring them to light. Others, I think, may feel that maybe someday they will be able to become part of the groups that control everything so why change anything if you have that aspiration.
It is never easy to go up against the powers that be, but power is not eternal especially when it becomes detrimental to the great majority of the citizenry.
If you don’t believe that just ask Trujillo!
Why did YOU DREAD post this quote?
Why to add an academic source to back up YOUR position that additional spending on education IN THE DR WOULD NOT PRODUCE POSITIVE ECONOMIC RETURNS! Only in Asia is additional educational funding positively correlated with economic growth. In Latin America and in Africa they are not.
That's what you were trying to establish, but you believed that no one would bother to read and understand the academic study. Perhaps you were thinking of Josean?
Perhaps you missed this part of the study you tried to pass off as supporting your proposition:
"Education spending is the largest among all government expenditures in
"Education spending is the largest among all government expenditures in Asia, accounting
for 20 percent. It is not surprising that Asia has the highest quality of human capital among
regions."
Show us at DT a study that supports YOUR THEORY that additional educational spending IN DR, will be negatively correlated with economic growth.
Dready, the fallacy of your thinking on this is evident. Your backtracking is soooooo pathetic. Again trying to mislead the DT audience?
That was and continues to elude your idiotic musings.
Roy,
Thanks!
Enjoy this after you come from church :) during your Sunday Brunch:
" Not even Divine Providence will save us.... God has gone with Danilo!"
http://www.microsofttranslator.co....salva-Dios-se-fue-con-Danilo.html
"Ni la divinidad nos salva…Dios se fue con Danilo"
http://www.acento.com.do/index.ph....salva-Dios-se-fue-con-Danilo.html
Then why on earth use it, as this study was irrelevant-DID NOT PRODUCE THE DESIRED SPECIFIC EVIDENCE TO DETERMINE IF ADDED FUNDING FOR EDUCATION WAS POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY CORRELATED IN THE CASE OF THE DR- to our argument?
You added Nigeria as an example and that pique my curiosity because we WEREN'T ARGUING about NIGERIA but the Dominican REPUBLIC!
So I went ahead and read the study in its entirety and guess what? IT WAS A REGIONAL STUDY OF THREE WORLD REGIONS: Asia, Africa and Latin America. The Regional DATA were combined for the results! And YOU DREADY thought you could pass this off as providing EVIDENCE for your position that adding funding to DR's educational sector was foolish.
Sloopy thinking skills there Dready!
Sloopy thinking skills there Dready!
hang on , sloopy, sloopy hang on.
actually, i apologize to chimpanzees , the world over, for mentioning them in the same sentence as Atabey. by so doing, i have devalued their worth in the animal kingdom scheme of things.
Ladies and gentlemen,
On a positive note maybe you guys have already notice but in case you haven’t:
I find it quite positive that the two most recently offered articles on education by DT
Census: 13% of the population is illiterate Poverty - 13 January 2012, 8:45 AM
and
4% of GDP for Education push kicks off 2012 with preschoolers Local - 5 January 2012, 8:03 AM
as of today have generated 200 plus commentaries!
This is very good news since in the past to generate those numbers the story had to have some element about our relationship with Haiti.
I feel that the issue of education is gaining ground in importance on DT, as it is gaining ground in the general community.
Now tha'st one POSITIVE event worth noting and celebrating.
Thank you DT for sharing these valuable articles with us!
by the way, a buddy of mine wants to know where you attended university. he hates to do statistics, and he wants to get a BBA , but one without statistics courses. will you oblige, by divulging your alma mater? we can then check the core requirements for a BBA on the internet. thanks, in advance.
Then why on earth use it, as this study was irrelevant-DID NOT PRODUCE THE DESIRED SPECIFIC EVIDENCE TO DETERMINE IF ADDED FUNDING FOR EDUCATION WAS POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY CORRELATED IN THE CASE OF THE DR- to our argument?
you are kidding, right? you posted this just to get a rise out of the readership, right? i mean, not even you can be this stupid, right? to ask why use regression analysis is such an ignorant question, even an ape would be ashamed to ask it. oh, i forgot. you are unfamiliar with the tool , and concept, since your bachelors in business came without statistics.
You WERE CAUGHT using sloppy logic to defend your position and as always when I demonstrate to the DT audience your misreading on a subject (dready caught with his pants down) attack the source.
State your Mae Culpa, Chump.
Where is the evidence that educational spending is NEGATIVELY correlated with economic growth in the SPECIFIC CASE OF THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC?
Still looking for it!
That's what YOU CAN'T SEEM TO FIND THE ANSWER TO!
Trying instead to "pull the wool over the eyes" of the rests of the DT audience.
Remember, there are Dominicans ready to remove your wool, and EXPOSE your faulty thinking.
Ad hominem and Poisoning the well tactics will do you NO GOOD.
Post your evidence or be silent on the matter!
1...cross country regressions are intended to establish CORRELATION. they examine the effects of the same set of inputs on a group of countries, in order to determine if the effects are the same, in all cases. if, in the majority of cases, the effects are the same, then CORRELATION is established
2...the regression analysis sometimes reveals that the effects are different, in a number of cases. although the results might be positive in almost the entire sample, there might be cases in which the obverse is true. that means that the analysis cannot establish CAUSATION. it only establishes LIKELIHOOD.
"Mae Culpa"
It's Mea culpa in a GED Level Status :) observation!!
4 the thrust of my argument is that the positive results , as a response to input, which might be observed in one country, need not be present in others. i use Nigerial as a case in point, in which the results run counter to the trends. that suggests that some of the receptors of the inputs might militate against their effectiveness, and that the data shows that there is no CAUSATIVE relationship between expenditure on education, and positive results. the underlying social and cultural dynamics, and the efficacy of the process of education, are the important determinants, not the MONEY SPENT.
i suggest, and still do, that there is no guarantee that money will have a NECESSARILY positive effect on the DR , because there are anomalies in the analysis, and it is not known whether or not the DR will fall into the positive, or the negative group.
Still looking for it!
no, Attaboob, i am still looking for the figure i asked you to produce over a week ago
From: United States
"Mae Culpa"
It's Mea culpa in a GED Level Status :) observation!!
when you are Atabey, and GED is a far and distant dream, Mae Culpa is good enough.
Please pay close attention and learn as "La Corea,"- is administered to El Dready's sloppy think.
Own up to your sloppy thinking Dready. It does make you any less of a cretin. You have consistently viewed DR negatively and I have demonstrated that YOUR JAMAICA has actually been doing far worse for like 30 years or so!
"Attaboob"
Has kinda of nice ring to it!
JAMAICA...HIGH HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC...MEDIUM HUMAN DEVELOPMENT...
care to explain?
Thank you for drawing my attention to the significance of the images on banknotes. Yes it seems Dominican notes show mostly administrators long since dead and gone. It prompted me to look at Australian bank notes and was interested to see the number of famous scientists, engineers, architects, women and Aborigines, and even a British convict, and of course, the Queen of Australia, Elizabeth.
"Boob" is not a derogatory term in my book.
Life's no fun without boobs.
It will be interesting to see if the Peso goes into free-fall.
Months ago I laughed when a friend said the Aussie dollar might reach $1.50 US
Now I think it's a possibility.
"A school can be much more than a building. It can be a community center where parents can meet to plan for a better neighborhood, A political arena to discuss ways to improve the local conditions, a place where decent folks can interact and unite, etc."
Not in this country. There is no shortage of meetings amongst parents now, but they don't discuss education, they just strut their new clothes, mobile phones, brag and talk sh!t. Yet many parents here are too busy to attend parent-teacher meetings, even though they don't have any job at all!
Written by: yumnuk3, 21 Dec 2011 10:02 PM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
Welcome to Joseantoday...LOL.
Written by: josean, 21 Dec 2011 10:41 PM
From: United States
I you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch!
Written by: yumnuk3, 22 Dec 2011 9:38 AM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
What leads you to believe you are a big dog around here?
Written by: josean, 22 Dec 2011 1:17 PM
From: United States
The same thing that leads you to belive this is "joseantoday," Chihuahua!
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....ized-from-Puerto-Rican-drug"
Josean,
DT understands your limitations. "RE: Let's get it on Josean"
Why don't you see to that matter you've been avoiding like the plague. :)
Let Dready defend himself; he still believes in the fallacy of his logic.
Probably information technology is the only way out for the nation as a whole. An entire program dedicated to creative thinking with talent focused on writing code to build mobile phone apps in spanish, for instance ... yes only a start for a suggestion but there are so many different areas in technology to engage in that Dominican could be the leader in the caribbean in this sector if they wanted to ....
mind blowing to build a tunnel and rail system in the capital .. to benefit who? why not use all the same people to construct as many schools as possible and then outfit them with all the desks and chairs and books they can find ...
DT understands your limitations. "RE: Let's get it on Josean"
Why don't you see to that matter you've been avoiding like the plague. :)
Let Dready defend himself; he still believes in the fallacy of his logic.
Don't worry Attabey someday you will be as insignificant as me with my GED Level Status :) that maybe someone will open a Forum Topic dedicate to you as well!
Any of the people on the forum are welcome to come and debate here if they wish. I have never participated in the forum even before you came here to enlighten us with you brilliance. I have stated why I don't care for the forum in the past. To those who do I respect their choice, as I would hope they respect mine.
However, they are welcome to engage in this arena as well, remember to me it’s not about winning or losing it’s about share information that is verifiable.
We have many here with higher degrees of education and who have been in DR many times or live in there yet cannot accept the simple fact that education in DR is a failure.
Is 2012 yet the most educated crowd of Dominicans on the web cannot pin point the essence of the problem. Before we can even begin any reasonable discussion of education and what is needed in DR we must admit that the problem has been there since the beginning of the republic.
Before proposing any plans we must understand what education is and what is not. The fact that people concentrate on a mere literacy rate as a goal of education simply shows how low we aim as a country. The goal shall not be to raise 87% to 99% but ask the question, What is the quality of that 87%. I much rather have a 50% literacy rate based in quality than thi
{"Before we can even begin any reasonable discussion of education and what is needed in DR we must admit that the problem has been there since the beginning of the republic."}
Yes, I for one, Admit to it.... Please, do tell us what you think the real problem is and how to resolve it!...
DT understands your limitations. "RE: Let's get it on Josean"
Why don't you see to that matter you've been avoiding like the plague. :)
Written by: josean, 15 Jan 2012 5:12 PM
From: United States
However, they are welcome to engage in this arena as well, remember to me it’s not about winning or losing it’s about share information that is verifiable."
Stop being a wuss and go to the deep waters of the Forum, Josey; the sharks don't bite :)
I'm sure yumnuk3 will bring his A game to the match. Will you?
The only condition is that no person will hold your hand while you show DT what you're made of. Grow a pair and go into the BIG WATER IF YOU DARE.
Dready doesn't need you to hold his hand, he might not have any, but he's at least unafraid of the deep blue waters like you. :)
Atabey in a sophomoric rant says;
"Grow a pair and go into the BIG WATER IF YOU DARE."
Even if I were castrated tomorrow I would have more of pair than you will ever have!
Yes, I for one, Admit to it.... Please, do tell us what you think the real problem is and how to resolve it!...
A question so complex cannot be answered by a single person and neither would I try to but in my opinion education's main ingredient is parenting, environment in/out of school and opportunity. The ultimate goal of education is reward for hard-work.
So as simply pointing out the main ingredient we can see that even though money from gov. can make a difference in education that's only 1/3 of the equation.
to continue...
Parenting in DR is 1 of the worse that flows from domestic violence to child abuse both physically and mentally. Even after we get education right and of quality there is reward portion that can build or destroy the spirit.
Everyday we get reminded by the news that education is pointless and fruit-less unless you are well connected
"Would the last educated Dominican leaving the country please turn out the lights."
JAMAICA...HIGH HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC...MEDIUM HUMAN DEVELOPMENT...
care to explain?"
Why yes and always a pleasure dear Dready.
You see Dready Jamaica, your homeland, had a far easier, less violent upbringing than the Dominican Republic. Jamaica, for instance, didn't have the hemisphere's poorest member as its western neighbor ON THE SAME ISLAND! Nor did Jamaica have the series of incompetent governments that DR has traditionally had at the seat of central government; Jamaica had the British at the helm and because of the luck of the colonial draw, it was England and her language, English that developed Jamaica. When Jamaica gained her independence in the early 1960's, 1961 I believe, she did so without violence not the threat of being overrun by a neighbor. Thus Jamaica had a vast advantage at the start of her independent existen
And let's not neglect the huge advantage that English usage has had on developing Jamaica's human capital and the ties this usage has afforded Jamaicans over say Dominicans with their more limited access to the vast and dominant USA-Canadian markets. Thus Jamaicans have been able to adjust far faster and with greater degrees of upward mobility chiefly due to their language skills. In tourism, Jamaicans have been able to supply a more user friendly environment again because American and British tourist, as well as anyone with English mastery or semi-mastery, found it less restrictive to visit.
But for the last 30 years, Jamaica has coughed up her large early lead dear friend!
: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/bu....-fixing-the-economy#ixzz1jCRXwJFI
GDP growth has been LESS THAN 1% PER YEAR IN JAMAICA FOR 30 YEARS!
"The problem is that Jamaica has cultivated a society that embraces poverty and distrusts wealth, reasoned Ross about the country's generation of austerity. Comparatively, Haiti the poorest country in the Americas, will grow twice as fast as Jamaica over the period under review whilst the Dominican Republic, often compared to Jamaica for its historically similar income levels has galloped past Jamaica with growth rates consistently in the high single digits from the '90s trending into 2015."
Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/bu....n-the-world_8046873#ixzz1jcv6ijNc
The DR has "galloped past Jamaica" and these are HIS words!
Atabey/Dread.... Fluck the stats and make peace! .... Stats are made by man and easy to fudge to manipulate events. Parameters/standards are set by men to serve men's interests.
BACK TO THE SUBJECT:
No matter how you look at it; you can never spend too much on education, but it must be matched by opportunities.... How many of my DR friends have graduate degrees with no opportunity to be more than a guagua or motoconcho driver?
I believe that all efforts should be placed on promoting any related education that will target the resource of this country (where the economic freedom and the future of the country are)..... TOURISM.... Other resources (gold, copper, etc) are not renewable.
SPEND on PEOPLE not toy subways, 26 million pesos political campaigns, or foreign pomps and ass-kissing trips.
How dare you compare Costa Rica to the DR.... Costa Rica is one of the 20 oldest democracies in the world. The DR has a very young democracy, which is not instantaneous ... IT TAKES TIME to get the house in order and reap the benefits. Canada and the US have gone through the same periods of trouble in their past before they became what they are today.
Cheers mates!
Concatchero
I ONLY compared DR to Costa Rica as an example of how a small nation CAN seek to develop itself! I fully understand the vast differences in national experiences both nations have developed under.
And I have been advocating for an elimination of illiteracy in DR with a strong emphasis on K-12 education. Not some gold plated White Elephant monument to egocentric pretensions!
With something like 60% of the national economy STILL not formalized, DR has room to negotiate more funding resources to tackle its myriad of social problems that stem largely from having soooooo many of its people in semi-illiterate status or worse.
Government expenditures
1995 international dollars, billions , Percentage of GDP
------------------------1980 ---1990----- 1998--- 1980--- 1990--- 1998
Chile_________ 13.68__ 14.41___ 27.63_ 28.01_ 20.38_ 21.57
Costa Rica ______3.12 ___4.05____ 6.30_ 25.04_ 25.61_ 29.06
Dominican Rep.__ 3.35___ 2.97____ 6.34_ 16.92_ 11.66_ 16.29
Look at the funding levels for public expenditures for the DR and Costa Rica.
How can DR ever develop its human capital resources if it spends LESS resources, half as much, as C R?
1980 CR had a pop. of 2.3 million versus DR 6.0 million
1990 3.0 million -------------------versus DR 7.0 million
1998 3.7 million ------------------------versus DR 8.25 million
Yet C R SPENT 3.12 billion to DR's 3.35 billion in 1980, CR 4.05 >DR 2.97[!] in 1990, and
CR 6.30 ~DR 6.34 in 1998
The % of GDP reflects the vast differences in central government support
From: Dominican Republic
Roy you kill me! lmao
Atabey/Dread.... Fluck the stats and make peace! ...
i have no problem with that, except for the fact that Atabey is a disreputable sociopath, who cannot be trusted to live by his word. the guy has no character and integrity, and is proud of it. on a prior occasion, he appealed to me to end the hostilities, and, when i agreed to, he opened an obsuure thread, which he thought i would not bother to read, and trashed me in it. in the words of my niece, a phorensic psychologist in the New Mexico corrections system, he is a moral nihilist, who does not accept the fact that there is such a notions as right and wrong., i have no problem making agreements with honorable people. social vermin need not apply. i do not do business with people who go back into a thread, long after it has been debated, and change what they originally said, in order to convey a different stance. Atabey is dreck.
The DR has "galloped past Jamaica" and these are HIS words!
he accepts criticisms from people from all other origins, except, it seems, from Jamaicans. that makes me believe that he has had a traumatic event with a Jamaican, or group, thereof. what's the matter, Atta? posse boys knocked over your spot on the corner?rude boys kicked you around on Rikers?
Let's be nice today as it's MLK Day. OK
Dready you did ask this question of me, and I've answered.
Why No love Man?
"[A]nd, as an aside, if Jamaica has been doing worse tha[n] the DR for 30 years or so, how is it that we have this reality?
JAMAICA...HIGH HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC...MEDIUM HUMAN DEVELOPMENT...
care to explain?"---Dready
the only answer i want from you is the figure. all else is peripheral. the FIGURE, Atabey. enough dancing. THE FIGURE.
How's your challenge to the Export Led Industrialization Model offer going?
Any advancements?
From: United States
Dready,
How's your challenge to the Export Led Industrialization Model offer going?
Any advancements?
it will be out, shortly. unlike you, i do my research, so i do not end up looking like a jackass. idiocy is your stock in trade, so it does not matter to you if people think that you are dumb. any progress on your end with the FIGURE i asked you for?
Thanks for the answer.... I see your point but mine was about the governement leadership and its experience with Democracy, which cannot be compared to the DR to show equalities but rather inequalities. The figures are clear... Older democracies do better because there is much less corruption and more money goes back to the people. Now compare literacy and spending on education and it becomes clear that the more you spend on education, the more it benefits the country, economy, and the quality of life, therefore reducing population growth because people can afford rubbers, and are educated about social responsibilities and family planning.
By the way, its not "Concaquero" but Concatchero! Your fingers are going crooked again when you type too fast... A.k.a Sloopy work! Lmao
From: United States
Only 13%, I don't think so!
actually, these stats are issued by the governments of countries. the agencies that publish them are not the ones that do the surveys. in this case, the figures may be understated, in order to create a more favorable impression. the second feature to be taken into consideration is that there is no single standard for literacy, the world over. in some countries, the requisites for literacy are higher than in others. some countries, for example, may consider the ability to put letters together, and read the resultant word, a display of literacy. other countries may have a higher threshold, which demands the ability to comprehend the meaning of a group of words, put together, to form a sentence.
The stats are 9 years old. Since then, literate Dominicans have been fleeing the country like rats from a sinking ship, while illiterate should-be-at-school age girls are having babies that will follow their mother's example.
Written by: Atabey, 16 Jan 2012 7:58 AM
From: United States
Dready,
How's your challenge to the Export Led Industrialization Model offer going?
Any advancements?
it will be out, shortly. unlike you, i do my research, so i do not end up looking like a jackass. idiocy is your stock in trade, so it does not matter to you if people think that you are dumb. any progress on your end with the FIGURE i asked you for?"
Dready,
Let's be cordial, at least today, it is MLK Day after all. And thanks for the follow up.
----------------
Concatchero,
I agree, but Dready has a point concerning the marginal return to investment and whether or not these ADDITIONAL spending are put to good use. I believe that in the SPECIFIC case of the DR, they do because:
1. Unlike several countries in Latin America, DR has a substantial number and % of its population that is illiterate or functionally so!
Thus DR stands to make
2. DR also will generate more interests from foreign capitalists interested in investments, as her HUMAN RESOURCE will be able to competently compete with other nations for medium and higher end manufacturing and service investments. Just like Costa Rica has Intel investments so too will DR be able to interest corporate investment flows to develop its industrial and information technological sector. Small flows can over time and with good management facilitate substantial improvement in a small country like the DR.
3. Better trained and educated workers will allow DR to move up the tourism chain and compete for the higher end market. Thus adding greater potential earnings and investment flows.
4. All social matrices will show improvements: less violence and crime.
If the government here does not get its head out of its ass, the doors will be wide openned for crud like Chavez and turds like Castro, because the poor will vote for them just to see changes and get more pesos, and get any action on social inequalities. They will want more out of nothing, even if it is only a little, and it will be at the expense of freedom and democracy."
Sorry about the name.
And YES! I agree with you that the leadership groups in DR had better use better judgment and judicious thinking moving forward as what happened in Venezuela with the populist bandwagon could possibly occur in DR. People's expectations of a better life for themselves and their family are driving expectations through the roof and governments need to respond with better managed, less corrupt delivery systems.
Let's hope that DR can manage the distance before things get out of hand; but there's certainly cause for concern.
Enjoy your journey!
Dready start here, I'll feed you some more later on.
Public spending on education; total (% of GDP) in Dominican Republic 2 2
Public spending on education; total (% of government expenditure) in Dominican Republic 11 11
Pump price for diesel fuel (US dollar per liter) in Dominican Republic 1
Pump price for gasoline (US dollar per liter) in Dominican Republic 1
Pupil-teacher ratio; primary in Dominican Republic 24 20
Pupil-teacher ratio; secondary in Dominican Republic 29 24
Quality of port infrastructure; WEF (1=extremely underdeveloped to 7=well developed and efficient by international standards) in Dominican Republic 4 4
Quasi-liquid liabilities (% of GDP) in Dominican Republic 14 13
Quasi money (current LCU) in Dominican Republic 330881998443 366030338570
Ratio of female to male primary enrollment (%) in Dominican Republic 94 93
Ratio of female to male secondary enrollment (%
Now the former expert on neo-liberalism, modern governance, globalization, export and a month ago biometrics and other esoteric minutia, final realizes that all that mumbo jumbo is of no relevance if the core structural priority problem EDUCATION is not addressed FIRST!
Now ladies and gentlemen that is why I call PROGRESS!
I want to thank all those that have helped to “RAM IT DOWN” his throat and the other education infidels at DT.
Ron.. some very good points and good ideas about how to get more funding for education.. my only thought would be that if you start a system like you proposed it would give the government more incentive to do less about the problem and take more money away from education.. Although it would be a good way to raise more after they fulfill their obligations of the very least 4% ...
Roy as usual you crack me up.... but with your dry humor you still make poignant social comments..
some time it's is better to just not reply to some people.. May I try and sum it up what your point is....?? for others that are just hell bent on finding something to argue and then reverting to the Jamaica thing..
More money spent on education in this country in this political environment would do very little but only make it look better for those in power....
Close??? if not you could maybe add to it... but that is how I see your point...
Not all good education is best taught in the class room... I like Roy have a short attention... I for one was lucky to have had three really great teaches.. my mum and dad and one teacher in high school..
.
Belly ... good comments and thanks for trying to get the thread back on track with this very important topic...
More money spent on education in this country in this political environment would do very little but only make it look better for those in power....
Close??? if not you could maybe add to it... but that is how I see your point
that is exactly what i am saying. not because money is being spent means that there will be positive results. if the money is spent on expensive capital projects, rather than on current expenditure, the only people who will profit are builders, and hardware stores, along with the politicians, who will get their cut. if it is spent on political appointees, rather than qualified teachers, there will be no progress. there are cases wherein large expenditures have been made to education, and there is no empirical ecidence that any positive gains have ben made. Atabey does not understand something so simple for the rest of us, but so complicated for him.
From: Dominican Republic
Dready... mmmm
some time it's is better to just not reply to some people.
so true, stillhere, so true. had an interesting experience in the bank, yesterday. this guy asks the cashier to change a US 50 dollar bill. she gives him the change, and he starts making a scene, declaring it to be 2 pesos short. the cashier asks him how he figures that to be. simple, he says. he calculated it himself. so, even though she does this on a daily basis, as a full time job, and she has the assistance of an electronic calculator, he is right, and she , and her calculator, are wrong. must have been Atabey.
Careful Stillhere, You might catch a similar bug malady known to Josean: lack of READING COMPREHENSION.
I believe you are uninformed concerning the debate between us (Dready and Atabey)
For it's as plain as vanilla what Dready was saying concerning spending MORE money on education in the specific case of the DR. Dready stated categorically that Dominicans were NOT interested in education, but other more traditional pursuits: whoring, dancing, playing games on electronic devices, etc. They were like horses that did not want to drink the vitamin rich waters of knowledge, to paraphrase El dready. Just look it up!
I said nonsense! Show me proof. And El Dready decided to post a study on REGIONAL RESULTS! Not specific national results! Dready didn't give the web-site address but quoted what he believed would silence me and back up his theory with an authoritative sourced document. Little did he know that the internet provides one with the same material.
So I asked Dready, on what basis can YOU Dready defend your theory when your evidence DOES NOT offer us proof that the negative correlation, valid for the REGION OF LATIN AMERICA, is true or valid for the SPECIFIC case of the Dominican Republic?
Silence from Dready on that CRUCIAL POINT of debate and attacking me for allegedly not reading the study correctly! Ha HA HA HA!!!
Then apparently someone PM Dready and told him why the evidence wasn't really valid since at best it COULD BE BUT THERE WAS NO MEANS TO KNOW FROM THE DREADY STATED EVIDENCE........the back tracking began in earnest.
Of course, now dready really didn't say that Blah, Blah, Blah!
You were caught Dready with your pants down.
From: Dominican Republic
Dready... mmmm
some time it's is better to just not reply to some people.. May I try and sum it up what your point is....?? for others that are just hell bent on finding something to argue and then reverting to the Jamaica thing.."
Yes, the Jamaican thing. and why not? If Dready is truly versed in ANY land it should be his known, no?
And what indeed have I demonstrated to the DT community: why that when debating the current malaise of Jamaica DREADY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT!
Just check out Dready's response concerning economic growth or GDP growth in Jamaica. He said that it wasn't an important component for the nation!
When I posted several articles that STATED THE OBVIOUS! from Jamaican newspapers, all Dready could do was get philosophical and go to the dumpster.
Kinda sums up Dready's take, no?
"I have a dream?"
Little Haitian Louis put up his hand and said, "Martin Luther King, Jr. in 1963"
"Very good, Louis, and who said "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country"?"
As quick as a flash, Loius answered "John F Kennedy in 1961"
From the back of the class, a big, fat Dominican boy, Angelo snarled "Get back to Haiti you smart-ass black (unt""
Horrified, the teacher demanded "who said that!"
"Rafael Trujillo in 1937" replied Lois.
There seems to be a need to constantly closely review photos and captions to see how they relate ...
Because this senior class is forced to use a classroom intended for juniors. What do you expect from 2.3 % of a tiny GDP allocated to education? The country's subsidy on electricity is more than double that figure.
I actually adapted an Australian joke about Pauline Hanson.
(Someone who dared to tell it like it is, but that's another story)
I hope that the readers here do not miss the best post of all due to all the infighting between Dready and Atabey.
Little dick congratulates us for such a low illiteracy rate. First of all everyone knows if the gov't says its 13% anyone other than a paid government stooge knows it has to be more like 30-40%.
The 13% are those who can't read or write. It does not include the greater percentage that can read but chose not to.
I like your last comment & juanb's at 1:02pm,1;24pm .It makes sence to me .
I had mentioned how to solve this educational problem and as dreadlocks stated and I agree
also ('all the money in the world ,could not educate any one if they don't want to be educated).
Some one had mentioned the quality of teachers as well as the infrastucture. If a person wants
to learn he could do it under a tree having the propper educator I was told by my parents that
EDUCATION starts at home and continues at home under a rigid discipline. The rest is up to you
if you wnt to further it by going to libraries and do some research on your own.
I read every one's input. Believe me i got an education out of it . Mr josean also has lots of goody.
('all the money in the world ,could not educate any one if they don't want to be educated).
It's not as simple as that.
"Nurturing" is a word of utmost importance when we speak of education and children in the same breath.
For the most part, we're all born with the same, or similar capabilities to learn and develop. But further development, hinges upon the prevaling environment.... Provided they're given the proper nutrition, encouragement, and suitable schooling, will make all the difference in the world....When a child grows up, sans any of these ingredients, the last thing a he/she thinks of, is education. He is too busy trying to survive. The part about "don't want to be educated", stem from an environment that made him that way: someone who can't think straight, and does not value education as a way out of poverty.... He doesn't know better because he never learned, any better.
Can I call you Thelmo?
I agree totally about education beginning at home. My 2 sons have almost completed their PhDs in Bio-Medical Science. I started their education literally in-utero, at home, and spent much time, reading an discussing things until I couldn't keep up, well into their university studies. They went to ordinary government schools, and were in a small group in the top of the class in each grade (mostly Asian kids) who competed with each other, and also studied at each others houses after school. Almost as soon as they could walk I took them running every morning before breakfast, taught them how to swim, ride a bike, paddle a canoe, sail a yacht, snow-ski and roller-blade. They also excelled in sport at school an continue in a gym still. One rides 20 km to his laboritory every day. The other is also in the Australian Army part-time, and showed the Dominicans how to do Salsa properly when he was here.
Sorry if I am bragging, but I am proud of their achievements, and the point I am making, is there was not a lot of money spent by me or the government on their education. However there was a lot of time and discipline, and I believe the attitude a child gets from his parents it the most important factor in their education. That is why I despair about the prospects for the kids in my village here. Their parents have no interest in education so the kids don't. I have never seen anyone reading a book, nor have I seen anyone over 12 year old without a mobile phone, or any guy over 15 without a motorbike or a car, however almost no one has a license or a full-time job.
welfare when the boyfriend walked out on her."You could take a horse to water but can't force him
to drink it".
Now days it is very common for couples to live together untill love is no longer or the passion for
each other dies. It is a practice of all the kids up here "sex before education"a kid raising a kid at 16 years of age. They can't put them in jail since they are minors.The boyfriend can do so much
since he also droped out and did not pick a vocational trainnig to get a job.Typical Dominican wants to start at the top.
Roy, I don't know what is wrong with DT ,no sooner I come close to over 100 characters left he
closes me out ,therefore could not tell you all ,I thought it was 500 characters the max..
My son also is into wresling G/R stile. Graduated from Montclare College,got married had 2 kids.taught in the same HS he graduated from for 3 years bought a house before getting married.
He is the Head Coach of the HS now for 17 years all total teaching 20 yrs. Has 2 post grad +30 credits ,passed supervisor test and principal test. He is comfotable teaching for one thing ,the other is job security as a teacher protected by the teacher's union. He does everything in sports you spoke about above with his kids.We love to bragg about their acomplishments.The 2 kids are
into wrestling also.
Untill tomorrow
TAR
Mr. Thelmo and Roy.
You have both done an splendid job of raising children. I think I have too. My daughter's in her third year of college and my son will graduate from HS in June, next year.
I think the same as you: education begins at home with all the encouragement, discipline and love possible.....However, I had no such luck. My folks, although I loved them dearly, placed no value in education and really did not care to spend the time an effort to, what I think, was their duty to do.
Had I not lived in the US and had not the encouragement of my teachers, I would not have come as far as I have. As little as my accomplishments have been, I dread to think what would have been if my young years and adulthood had been spent in the DR.
My point is, that althought parental education is indeed vital to a child's success, it's not all there is.
I think the cycle of illiteracy and misery can be broken with well-supplied schools staffed with good teachers.....
...that care enough to give them the proper nutrition and a caliber education. I have myself as an example of what can be accomplished in school. I did well in spite of my limitations.
And how did your folks do in rearing you both? Surely someone in your lineage did not do his/her job in good parenting. Yet you turned out ok, yes?
You both see only results of the mind-set most Dominican parents have regarding their offsprings; that children there, (for the most part), don't care for an education. But, can't you see? They're following along the path they've been shown which, needless to say, is very foggy and narrow.
What irks me the most about people like you, is that you see and swiftly conclude: there's no remedy for the prevailing situation. you don't see potential; nor care to lend an opinion to solve it.
You both seem to relish compararing DR children and what you have accomplished with your own. Well, congratulations!
When I first cane here I was horrified by the situation. Obviously I knew I could not make any difference in a national scale but thought I might make a difference in my immediate environment. There was some initial interest, perhaps because most had never known gringo before. I think they only got involved to please me. I soon learned they had no real interest in education or the environment. "Helping" with their English homework meant doing it for them, while they go to the bar, play with their motorbike, texting or chatting on their cell-phone, watch soap-operas, of whatever it is girls do with their hair for hours.
School is where you send your kids for the government to give them just enough education to get a job to contribute towards their, and their kids' board, and to get a uniform and a free meal. It is also to show what a good an prosperous parent you are by always being clean and hair immaculate and stylish.
As I have said kids also need good roll models.. Be it sports stars that shows that anything can be achieved with hard work and determination, to a teacher that loves their job and shows it through their work...
The task of motivating parents and children to go to school and do well is not just fixed with money.
I for one would like to see TV/radio stations running campaigns showing good roll models talking about going to school and working hard and what can be achieved with a good education... It is something I have been talking to my sister in law about as she is on TV and Radio and is well known here...
It was no accident that wrestling and sports stars in the US were saying "Stay in school. Say no to drug"
As for TV stations, their responsibility is to their shareholders, not their viewers. That means attracting advertisers, which means chasing ratings, which means serving up what people want, not what they need - soap-operas, cartoons, violence and sport, with a tiny sprinkling of news.
From: Dominican Republic
I hope that the readers here do not miss the best post of all due to all the infighting between Dready and Atabe
juanb, i apologize to the board for allowing myself to descend into the sewer with Atabey. he has turned the subject into a slime pit, because it is his comfort zone. i asked the guy for a figure 7 days ago, but, instead of compiling it, he spends time bringing Jamaica into the thread, because he thinks that somehow, i will feel hurt. he thinks this is a game, referring to the "pela he gave to the jamaiquino". he has a serious personality disorder, which only the aforementioned nice men in nice white suits , can address.
From: United States, NJ
To start with I agree with you.Nevertheless in the Tri-State area of NY,NJ,CT there is a big drop out % of DR kids that never finished HS, that were given the opportunities that you mentioned above and they did not take it..Girls of DR back ground that left school because they were pregnant,and her parents instead of supporting them, kicked them out, forcing them to apply for
welfare when the boyfriend walked out on her."You could take a horse to water but can't force him
to drink it".
i believe i used the same analogy, sometime in the past. lead the horse to the water, and he will not drink. so, Atabey, what do you think of that remark, seing that it was made by a Dominican, and not a Jamaiquino? besides , Mr Rancier, if money was the determinant, then all ethnic groups in the same school would get the same test results. we all know that Asians excel, in the main, and Latinos are behind the curve.
There is a standard joke amongst Caucasian Australian school-kids:
Question: How do you know if an Asians student has broken in to your home?
Answer: The cat's missing and your homework's been done!
Mr. Roy & Mr. Dread.
According to you, nothing can possibly mend the "mind-set, culture and genetic make-up". in our people. All is lost.! .Those that care much for our nation's and children's' future, should just face reality and give it up!...It's all an exercise in futility! Our young people just want to hang and party.
Generally, that's true for the older teens. But no such thing as genetic predisposition to stay dumb, nor is there a "mind set" that keeps them that way.
I can understand your frustration in witnessing the terrible waste in potential in our youth. I see it too. I also see the "carry on", neglectful attitudes most parents have regarding education.
For the most part, the older generation, can't be counted on. But the new generation can be molded into the right shape by our govt, or private institutions by simply creating the proper, suitable environment for mental growth.
But it takes money. The money can be had. The willpower is what's lacking. ....Alas!
well put sir, understood and agree fully.
From: United States
i notice that Atabey, having read the last series of postings from Mr Rancier, RoyStone, and RonEvane, regarding education being a product of motivation, desire, achievement aspirations, personal discipline, and such other PERSONAL factors, has gone silent. the best he can do is to offer the equivocal answer "yes and no, Roy". he cannot say why it is yes, and why it is no. maybe , his silence, however temporary, will give him the opportunity to produce the FIGURE that i asked him for, 7 days ago."
Well Dready a good father takes care of personal business FIRST before trying to educate misguided posters like YOU. Remember, it's Hockey season!
But as all reasonably intelligent posters will note, I HAVE NEVER STATED THE CONTRARY WITH RESPECTS TO EDUCATION STARTING AT HOME! NEVER.
But we all know how Your lack of argument skills descend into emotional outburst. Try posting cogent sourced evidence next time.
Even Roy has stated otherwise on a number of posts. You continue with your whining about "give me a breakdown on how these funds will be spent" The crux of the issue is NOT THERE, but in the overall REQUIREMENT and Acknowledgement that SIGNIFICANT spending increases ARE INDISPENSABLE to get the Dominican Republic up to par with her regional competitors and provide for a nation equipped to handle the future with confidence.
How much funding goes to school construction, teacher salaries, administrators, materials, etc., IS beyond the expertise of anyone here at DT to pinpoint. But what is truly NOT beyond reasonable minded people to acknowledge is the overall NECESSITY of increasing spending over time to arrive at a truly UNIVERSAL SYSTEM OF EDUCATIONAL COVERAGE, K-12, in DR.
Wow!
Earth to Dready, please tell us why DR should not position itself to spend significantly MORE of her GDP to educate her people.
Atabey,
See if you can do your delinquent homework assignment from the information provide here, before Dread takes you out to the woodshed AGAIN:
http://www.see.gob.do/Transparenc....s/Documentos%20Planificacion.aspx
What's strange is that I've actually made your argument in this debate over funding for education in DR! That 2.3% of GDP just will not cut it! Not for a truly Universal system of K-12 education! And yet you would rather tag-team with Dready-remember his country Jamaica has consistently devoted some 5-7% of GDP to education!
Why am I not impressed by your take on this matter Josean? Be a mensch for once and stand on your two feet. This is not the deep blue waters of the Forum.
"The only woodshed Dready knows is the one You and Him occupied. Messaging each other is getting to be all too familiar. LOL"
Atabey,
You really should look into to dealing with your obsession with male genital and your latent homosexuality.
"What's strange is that I've actually made your argument in this debate over funding for education in DR! That 2.3% of GDP just will not cut it! Not for a truly Universal system of K-12 education"
Atabey,
You also might want to consider reining in your ego a little bit and tone down the grandiosity as you are becoming a legend in your own mind!
"Why am I not impressed by your take on this matter Josean?"
Aatbey,
Here we have something in common, just with a slight variation, as I am not impressed with "Your Take" on ANY MATTER!
Education in Latin America
Most Latin American constitutions promise education for all the people.
But an Inter-American Development Bank study in 1998 observed that
“guarantees of universal primary education in Latin America have
come false entitlements for the poor: the education available to them
has been of such poor quality as to be of little real bene?t.” The study
continued that “low and unequal accumulation of human capital can
be stated more simply: public education has not reached the poor in
Latin America. A major culprit in this failure is a model of social service
delivery that has re?ected and reinforced social, economic and political
inequities.” That delivery system includes state-run education monop-
olies and unions that often seem to have limited interest in the educa-
tion of students.
public spending, accumulation of human capital in Latin America has
been low and inequitable . . . the distribution of education has hardly
improved over time.”
see the last sentence, Atabey? despite adequate funding? or, maybe you wish to debate this matter with the researchers at the IADB? just remember, before you start, that their guys can count to ten.
You will continue your tired and asinine take til the end. Just remember that NO WHERE has it ever been witnessed that one can take a substandard, lowly educated populace of a developing nation and turn it into a unified and broad based coverage universal educational system WITH 2.3% of GDP funding! Not ONE CASE.
A blast from the past!
"According to Ambassador Crimmins, the roots of the country’s problems, including the “problems of political underdevelopment which have plagued the Dominican Republic throughout its history,” lay in either “ignorance or ineptness,” and educational reform was therefore likely to be “a sine qua non of Dominican modernization.”
The US threat would ultimately prove hollow, however, for Balaguer would neither reconsider the country’s industrial incentive regime, abandon exchange rate parity, nor meet AID’s revenue and spending goals in his first three terms in office (i.e., between 1966 and 1978). While the percentage of overall spending devoted to education and health care increased slightly in 1969 and 1970, it began to fall thereafter (see Fig. 1), and Balaguer’s revenue agents never came close to collecting 20 percent of the country’s gross domestic product—the widely accepted minimum needed by an activist developing country government."
2.3% of GDP does not produce a modern nation-state. Punto y Final!
"A blast from the past!"
I wonder who has used that phrase here at DT before.
The say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!
Oh! God please no! Not back to the "missed window of opportunity" again!
Where is Biometrics when you need it!
From: United States
"A blast from the past!"
I wonder who has used that phrase here at DT before.
The say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!"
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov was correct. Now be circumspect and allow the grown ups to discuss the matter.
Andrew Schrank
The best known works on the 1965 United States occupation of the Dominican Republic conclude with the presidential elections of 1966, and thereby forfeit a valuable opportunity to explore the social and political underpinnings of economic success and failure in the contemporary developing world. After all, the US government made a concerted but ultimately unsuccessful effort to impose an outward oriented, East Asian-style development regime on the Dominican Republic in the late 1960s. Why was the U.S. effort stillborn?
(1) the US effort to promote export led-industrialization (ELI) in the Dominican Republic in the late 1960s, (2) President Joaquín Balaguer’s response to the US effort, and (3) their broader theoretical implications.
He is on a roll, downward roll that is!
"Now be circumspect and allow the grown ups to discuss the matter.'
Ok!
Dread and Roy please continue!
From: United States
He is on a roll, downward roll that is!
really, Josean? how do you roll downward, when you are already at the bottom?
You guys just don't understand how this country can be heading for a bio-metrically-led economic boom.
(ummm nor do I)
Talk to Risom - he's in the market for some biometrics - look!
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....o-of-2300-charged-with-ID-forgery
From: Australia
Hey Atebey, I have a lead for you -
Talk to Risom - he's in the market for some biometrics - look!
Atabey is no longer in the biometrics business. he is now the Public Relations Officer for Costa Rica.
The present kids in DR wants to compete with the GRINGO style in dressing as well as miss
missbehavior,and on top of that gets demanding from parents who are factory workers by
majority by trade When I left the Island all kids were dress on uniform at least up to the 8th
grade,which was good.All the material and uniform was made local.
There was no diference between the poor and less poor.Once they started emigrating to Gringo
land and bringing back home all the bad habbits thus learned and their parents condoling them,
the country became a mimick. Those trips back home on their summer vacation to show off to
their friends what they had and the local could not afford. That is why I say foreign influeced had a
lot to do with non-education as well as too much freedom.When they did not know what freedom
was.
From: United States
m"
Dready,
Your best comment so far.
But I agree with both that these half way down pants are a most idiotic and stupid compliment the young pay-unknowingly for some- to their prison buddies. For it was in the USA jail system that such style of pants wear got its beginnings. Or did they copy it from Cantinflas?
No doubt a firmer hand but one that adheres to modernity in other fields and respect for the rule of law would greatly redeem DR and many other places. I wouldn't hold my breath on this coming anytime soon.
That startred in jaill ,prison had it down exposing their asses so thei inmates knew he was available.
Must kids don't know that and that is why they mimick the rest otherwise they don't belong.
I could only know by my pass in DR . Under Trujillo that was never a roll model to be with your
pants down to your ass. Maybe that is what is needed another Trujillo purely nattionalistc.
Furthermore I don't feel this adds to the moral of the majority of kids.On the cotrary it takes away.
I think it was Roy that mentioned it or Atabey that television should be selected as it is in other
countries. There too much violence and fistisious movies out there that the kids pick up. I also
agree that the quality of teachers is a must.
to import Spaniard teachers for the salaries they were demanding. I believe then to be US$12,000
per year.They thought he was kidding untill he started replacing them by qualify Spanish teachers. They finally came into some agreements . The so call bi-lingual teachers claimed the
kids did not uinderstand that kind of Spanish,therefore the parents protested agaist it along
with teachers and kids ,probably paid by the teachers union,because they knew they would follow.
I don't know how they allow teachers as a start w/o a post graduate in teaching just because they
don't want to pay the salary. They take them in with a bachelorate degree and give them 5 years to
get the post graduate .
For the salary a policeperson gets they should also make it mandatory to have at least a Bachelorate degree at start,instead of a HS diploma.
.