Written by: BASTA, 13 Jan 2008 3:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, = Ghetto-SPM-Barrio Blanco
No; I just want a beer after 12:01 am.- Sorry every thing closed. Bull pucky that I will pay 75us to take a cab to a hotel. Never again will I or my friends come to DR. And just wait until the americans can go to Cuba.
Written by: dagtan, 13 Jan 2008 3:55 PM
From: United States
Basta, you say it and you have no idea th impact that Cuba will have on DR's tourism, I have posted before and ceary indicated that DR should stasupporing comunism in Cuba, because when Cuba is let loose, DR will face a hughe under taking.
Written by: josean, 13 Jan 2008 4:22 PM
From: United States
Written by: Belial, 13 Jan 2008 5:00 PM
From: United States, Texas
Cuba got just over 2 million tourists in 2007. An estimated 40,000 were US citizens, sneaking in and out of Cuba "illegally" under US law, fearing repression for traveling by the US regime under Bush. These 2 M tourists put Cuba a little behind the DR, the leader of Caribbean tourism, with 3 M visitors.
Most of the tourists in Cuba are from the EU, Asia, and Latin America.
Despite its huge popularity, DR tourism concentrates profits into the hands of foreign investors whereas in Cuba about half of the hotels are mostly or wholly owned by the state which spreads the tourist profits over the 11 million population, providing the Cuban people with highest standard of living in Latin America if one deigns to accept education, health care, nutrition, and housing as the chief indicators of these standards.
The mass of DR profits go to foreign lenders, foreign shareholders, and overpaid executives of the companies that own the facilities.
The DR people are screwed.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
DR #1 in tourism... also one of the top regional performers in the following categories:
- poverty
- inequality
- corruption
- crime
- energy costs
- salaries for politicians
These statistics are empty. Need to drill down and ask the question, how does the country benefit from tourism? Cheap jobs, environmental deprivation, expropriation of profits, funneling of taxx money to build infrastructure in tourist areas, and increased imports? Maybe we need to re-examine our development model, and invest in industries that actually help develop an internal market, instead of continuing to cater to int'l wants and needs. THis may be painful in the short run, but guess what, our current situation is painful already. Don't be afraid of change! If we continue doing what we've been doing, we'll get the same results. We've focussed our society and econ. on external markets, and all that it has produced has been poverty and inequality. Maybe it's time to try something else.
Written by: antonio, 13 Jan 2008 9:32 PM
From: United States
I never heard so much basura coming out of every one s mouth . you all should be happy that DR is coming up. But instead you talk alot of S... I am glad that Dr is coming up and that its getting better
I love DR . you say theres bad jobs. I think theres bad jobs for the people who dont work hard enough so they go to other countires because there lazy.santodomingo is doing good. So if you dont like it you dont have to go there we dont need you. go to cuba . DR is doing better then them and If your going to talk bad about DR dont go on this website OK go to cuba s web. santodomingo ALANTE ALANTE!!!!!!!!!! no matter what they say
Written by: Belial, 13 Jan 2008 9:39 PM
From: United States, Texas
"go to cuba, " antonio commands.
oooo
You hear TexasBill. He's talking to you. He doesn't like what you're saying. I told you that you're on the wrong road.
Written by: TFISKE 
, 13 Jan 2008 10:34 PM
From: Canada, Alberta
IF YA CANNOT SAY ANTHING NICE SHUT UP! THE DR IS GREAT.. I LOVE THE PLACE AND THE PEOPLE.. I OWN PROPERTY IN THE DR ..
I HAVE WITNESSED THE COUNTRIES GROWTH AND YET NOT PERFECT..
IF YA HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY ABOUT THE DR SHUT IT !!!
Written by: Bani1624, 13 Jan 2008 11:31 PM
From: United States
I agree with TFISKE, if you cant say anything nice then dont say anything at all. It is not our fault that Cuba is good, and oh so perfect. No country is perfect especially Cuba and i love DR and finally the improving parts of the country is showed.
Dont HATE appreciate!!!!!
From: Dominican Republic
Tourism is growing? I hear from the Canadians that more Canadians were suppose to be coming this year , but because some that were already here gave them the 411 on the HIGH cost of everything, they decided not to come down.
I moved here in 2004, and since then i have seen tourism decrease if anything. the locals claim that before Leonel there was more tourism all year long. Now WE all wait for season time for things to get better and it just keeps on getting worse.
And that curfew is helping out any, i mean what's the purpose of it? they say for less crime BS! if anything crime has increased due to the lack of jobs available , especially when people were laid off , due to the curfew.
DR needs Change for real.
Check out this link, Dominicans rhyming about change
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsViWXv2ru4Written by: josean, 14 Jan 2008 10:13 AM
From: United States
time2rize
Thank you so much for that execllent link. After watching that if any one votes for Lio-nel Fernandez and the PLD they should have their head examined.
Written by: Belial, 14 Jan 2008 10:21 AM
From: United States, Texas
"IF YA CANNOT SAY ANTHING NICE SHUT UP! THE DR IS GREAT."
00000
If you can't tell a lot of lies, then don't speak.
Nobody cares about truth. Nobody wants facts.
Tell us lies ... as long as they are nice.
Leonel Fenandez and his opponents say that the other is a thief who is utterly corrupt.
Now, if you can't say something nice about them, then shut up because free speech is the expression of nice lies.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
People who only highlight the positives - and there are actual positives - are trying to ignore the elephant in the china room and essentially stymie change. Demanding change does not mean we're anti-dominican, it means we LOVE the DR enough to continuously fight for change. Trying to Stop open dialogue by calling people "un-patriotic" or "anti-dominican" is similar to "social" censuring. Present your points, others will present theirs, and then by looking at the same issue from different points of views, one can hope to reach a better understanding of a social phenomenon. No one ideology or institution has a monopoly on the truth- even though social issues are presented by absolutes. But by doing so, they're trying to hide the other "views." We need to question the "truths" that are presented as "natural." And we need to continuously pressure for a more transparent, inclusive and less unequal society. If we don't, then poverty, inequality, hate, and corruption will always reign.
From: Dominican Republic
Your very welcome josean.
Well said Belial & baldoria23
Written by: Escott, 14 Jan 2008 12:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
Well for the life of me I can't understand what could be bad with growth in tourism which is the NUMBER 1 source of revenue here in the DR. It has NOTHING to do with Cuba and only time will tell what happens with Cuba. I personally don't think much but like I said only time will tell and it will be a L O N G T I M E before anything happens there.
I was happy to read the article and do NOT take it as bad news.
From: United States
the article states how many visitors we are getting , and that is about all it does. it serves no useful purpose in telling us whether or not there are positive aspects to tourism, vis a vis the investment made, not to mention the sacrifice. it does not say what portion of the income earned stays in the country. i read somewhere where onl 11 cents on the dollar remains in the dr. it also does not indicate per capita spending. what is the point of gazillions of arrivals, with people spending a few bucks each? it is just more burden on the environment, with negative results. also, how many good jobs go to dominicans in this tourist business? because foreign interests, principally Spain, control the local tourist industry, the plum jobs all go to foreigners. it is like colonialism all over again! but we see all these europeans and north americans who manage to leave the all-inclusive plantations, and think tourism is great for us because they are buying an ash tray from a street vendor
From: United States
or getting their shoes shined by a juvenile limpiabota. meanwhile, because the tours are all booked abroad, and they are all inclusive, the local economy earns squat. the restaurants in the nearby towns get no clientele, because huge international chains like dominos pizza, mcdonalds, etc, have outlets in the all inclusive compound. not to mention the fact that the travel agents implore the tourists to stay within the compound, lest they be eaten by the natives. it is time for the government to stop being self congratulatory and lazy, and commission a cost -benefit study of tourism as it is currently constituted. and if folks like TFISKE and Bani1624 believe that their commands to dissenting opinion to shut up will correct the imbalances, they are living on a planet far,far away. it is called constructive criticism; people who have the intellectual wherewithal to examine a subject owe it to the public to be heard. otherwise, we will remain blinded by misconceptions,forever.
Written by: Belial, 14 Jan 2008 2:22 PM
From: United States, Texas
Another thing, the DR welcomes cruiseships which bring "tourists" who don't spend real money.
They eat on the boat. They gamble on the boat. They sleep on the boat. They dance on the boat and they fornicate on the boat.
They walk around the DR and buy a little junk ... here and there, then they get back on the boat to go to another island to repeat their parsimonious routine.
The only things that these cruiseship tourists leave behind are mountains of waste and garbage for DR landfills, but these mountains were originally produced on the boat before it got to the DR.
So, how many of the 3M are cruiseship tourists ?
They do one good thing however. They walk around the DR with half of their as- hanging out of their scanty garments.
From: United States
Belial, i read an article which states that the average amount of money spent onshore by a cruise ship passenger is 93 dollars. also, if you are the last stop on the cruise ,your take is smallest, since ,by the time they get to you, they are broke. so you don't necessarily even get 93 dollars per person; that is an average. the jury is still out as to whether or not it is worth the effort. as to the part about asses hanging out; i wouldn't know. my mother always told me to avert my eyes from such spectacles.
Written by: antonio, 14 Jan 2008 2:34 PM
From: United States
ok im not going to say DR is perfect but on the other hand witch country is.not the usa thats for sure. And why are we saying bad things about DR. I say its doing good. Well I only know about the captal. to me it has the same as ny just more freedom.santodomingo all the way no matter what people say. every country has a year thats not good. look at the u.s the economy aint as good and the dollor is droping so I dont see any one saying nothing about that.
Written by: Belial, 14 Jan 2008 2:44 PM
From: United States, Texas
"as to the part about asses hanging out; i wouldn't know. my mother always told me to avert my eyes from such spectacles." Dreadlocks remembers.
---------
I unsuccessfully tried to avert my eyes; so, I should get some points for effort.
Written by: Bani1624, 14 Jan 2008 3:27 PM
From: United States
What does your negative comments on the situation of DR has to do with tourism Dreadlocks. Of course i know that there is problems in the Dominican Republic but putting the country down and saying Cuba is better is not going to change things as i was directing in my comments.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
the issue there is, when the G channels resources in building tourism, it neglects other aspects of the economy. For example, the airport taxes are solely invested in tourist areas. I'd prefer to have those funds invested to create an (environmentally friendly) domestic industry or into public services.
In other words, given the present level of investment in tourism and the incentives given to foreign investors, it's no wonder that tourism is the major component of the DR's GDP; but if the same level of investment were dedicated to other sectors of the economy that provided more profits, better jobs, more domestic infrastructure, maybe tourism would be less important. Does that make sense? It's like this, if you have a parcel of land and you rent it out so that someone brings their cattle to graise on your land, you get some marginal benefits; but if you decided to instead cultivate your land, you will get more benefits from working your own land.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
It's about value added. Dominicans are given low value added jobs, so they are paid little; while with similar investments in other areas of the economy the value added by dominican labor and the profits that remain in the country would be higher.
By focusing on Tourism, other sectors of the economy, which may be more economically beneficial to the country than tourism, are marginalized.
From: United States
I must say that the DR is doing good in terms of getting the tourist in, but when the tourist only spend money on resorts that are foreign owned. I don't think it helps the local economy as much. I think dreadlocks have a point in showing how tourism may not help the local economy as much. Also, I am not putting DR down, but cuba's hotels are mostly owned by the government which makes them in a much better situation in terms of tourism. I think the thing the government needs to do is change tourism into a way to make the local economy grow. In which the island's inhabitants reap the benefits. I guess go the direction of Bahamas and ultimately Bermuda.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
cuban tourism resort tourism that is can only be described as Ultra cheesy ....badly constructed all inclusive rubber chicken buffets that cater to the lowest end of caribbean tourism that is ultra cheap and cheesy .The Domrep is now moving into high end hotels like ritz and four seasons and has created an infrastructure over the last 20 years to staff them properly.The cuban product is el cheapo bottom of the barrel quality..........All you can eat drink and puke ...the Domrep is moving away from this market...the commisars can have it
Written by: Escott, 14 Jan 2008 5:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
Even if the only jobs that Dominicans had were as Maids, waiters and gardeners one less person unemployed is good. Sure things could be better and maybe if we had an educated workforce the foreign companies wouldn't bring in others to run the projects.
Another thing, when a Spaniard comes here to run a Spanish hotel, he gets paid, takes the money and spends it HERE like the rest of us that live here. Sure profits go to pay off mortgages and sure that goes to other countries because we are not competitive with double digit interest rates here so why shouldn't someone take mortgages from another country?
Mr Dreadlocks I just don't get you nor your position here. You are not Dominican and live in the States so what exactly is your interest anyway?
I know that some people here have no interests here and just use this as a soapbox but what is your deal?
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Here's my point, and I think Dreadlocks' point, if you only invest in industries that supply low-paying jobs, then other industries that can provide higher paying jobs will never develop. Tourism does provide many many jobs. It may be the best first step for development, but you need a step two and three to help developed the higher value-added /paying jobs. BTW - Free Trade Zones are not Step two, they are another source of cheap jobs. Tourism, FTZs, and remittances are strategies to maintain the DR away from a major crisis, they are not strategies for development. You need to have a grander plan to help entice an internal market and a strong middle class.
Plus, since 1492, our land has been focused on external markets w/o producing development, what makes us think that the three aforementioned development strategy which are focused on external markets will be any different? These are recipies for maintaining the status quo, not to change the current state of underdevelopment.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
there are many highly qualified dominicans working in management throughout the hospitality industry,many started out as waiters bartenders,front desk clerks and form the backbone of a infrastructure second to none in this region......you have to start somewhere,and the D.R. has paid its dues over the last 20 years.......Hopefully now begins a new era of mid and upper quality resort properties like ritz ,rosewood,four seasons and sofitel etc who recognize the potential of this product and move away from quantity to quality...........FORE
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
All negative comments in this blog comes from the same people that envy dominicans and want us to be destroyed so we could join them in their jungle way of living.
PS: don't want to say who so they don't call me RACIST............
That's why I always will have my negative opinions about them
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
To Josean: i have news for you Leonel Fernandez 2008-2012, He will be appointed president again because He is the right person for this job (besides that he helps your peeple too providing scholarships).
So sad that you don't recognize his merits and that's why you are ungrateful....
Written by: Escott, 14 Jan 2008 9:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
"All negative comments in this blog comes from the same people that envy dominicans and want us to be destroyed so we could join them in their jungle way of living.
PS: don't want to say who so they don't call me RACIST............
That's why I always will have my negative opinions about them"
You should either read the messages more carefully or share your drugs with the rest of us. Personally I would like to share YOUR drugs! That way I can learn more from my American Doms!
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
JRRubirosa, what is your point? There are many of us Dominicans who feel that tourism is not helping the country as much as it should. The issue is that the Dominican diaspora sometimes have a different impression of reality than the people living here, who have to struggle everyday to find a job, and when we do the jobs are barely enough to maintain a household.
Again, we need to stop reacting to comments and start engaging in discussion. God knows that people who either paint every thing good or everything right are missing/hiding something. Which means we can learn from each other. But if we dismiss one point of view or label it illegitimate for some arbitrary reason, like the one you allude to JRRubirosa, then it leads me to think that you are trying to hide the weakness of your argument by beating your chest louder and louder. You don't need to do that, at least not here.
With that said, Tourism has some positives, but if we hide the negatives we will never developed our e
Written by: antonio, 14 Jan 2008 9:58 PM
From: United States
listen why do people say there s bad jobs in DR. Theres bad job every were so dont just say its DR.some people get good jobs an some dont.some people dont want to finish schools. There s people who end up doing good in DR then any other place.I know it because I see there big fancy mansion and cars.so it can go good or bad for any one in the world only time will tell. some people work hard an deserve it an some dont do nothing.an they drag there sorry asses to another country to beg.and you cant say nothing about the economy because if your rich your economy is good but if your poor it aint so good for you. these applies ever were in these earth.
From: United States
There are some ppl on this forum who really lose credibility when they bash EVERYTHING dominican. Their bitterness becomes obvious. I commend Escott for putting politics aside and ALL the DR's problems to admit that this is a good idea (I say this since he and I don't agree with Leonel's admin for example...which is fine, we have the right to our own opinion). As for some of the others here (ie. drdlocks, josean, etc.) i have yet to see one positive thing you have to say about any good news in the DR. The fact that tourism is growing would be great news anywhere (Paris, Haiti, NY, ANYWHERE).
From: United States
Contd: Of course the DR has problems but why talk about every single thing wrong (and that has nothing to do with what's being said ) about DR when the news is simply stating something positive?; why try to make that into bad news? are you actually saying we should leave tourism and focus on other things? I agree we should exploit other sectors such as technology, but why can't we do tourism also? why not just admit that this is good news. PERIOD. And yeah a large percent of these hotels and businesses are owned by foreigners but what diff does it make if it's a foreigner or a rich dominican (it's not like the rich dominicans have done ALL that much for our society to be rooting for them; with the exception of a few). The point is that these businesses are providing jobs; yes, they are not the best jobs in the world but they are employing ppl who would otherwise be out of work; ppl who are learning new languages, feeding their families, and providing education for their children.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
I think there's a problem in communication: criticism is not being Anti-DR. Just b/c I want to improve my society, does not mean I'm against it. It means I love it so much to fight for change. Positives are good, but if you stop at there w/o recognizing the bad, what will happen? Nothing. You need to pressure for change, and before you do that, one needs to engage in open discussion about these topics.
So, without getting defensive, people need to recognize the good and the bad, and strive for a better tomorrow. Plus, one needs to always ask, what's the opportunity costs of any development strategy. In other words, if we did not invest so much money in tourism areas, what else could we do with that money? Maybe build an R&D industry, a pharmaceutical industry, perhaps manufacturing, or "green" electricity...
Just b/c the DR is #1 in tourism, we should not stop there. WHAT'S NEXT? Ok, you give us low paying jobs, how will you now give us better ones? How will we build a middle c
Written by: OnlyMe, 15 Jan 2008 9:01 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Yes It s great the DR is the First ...
But in facts it s very easy to say, it s not so much good for the country and doms, the country needs more ...
What i did :
- in my first company i try to organise "hight paying jobs" with doms, Results: no one try to work as good they were paying ..
- in my second company i try to organise "hight paying jobs" for quality .... with doms, Results: i never recieved quality ...
- in my third company i try to organise importations , Results: it works !!
So you can say what you want if you never try to work with doms you will never understand how it works
Many people try like me to do something here in DR with "hight paying jobs" and quality, so much time it doesn t work !! Not because they don t know but just they don t want ! you can pay more you won t have more !! And in fact i d prefer to have fabrics here but ... in quality it s impossible !! And i m the first to be very disappointed of that !
From: United States
Baldoria, I understand that we should discuss the good and the bad and I know that talking bad about the DR doesn't mean you are anti-DR. But so many of you ONLY mention the BAD even when there's good news. If this article were to say "dominican rep. tourist arrivals have decreased" you would mention all the bad in that. No matter what this article says, you guys would somehow highlight the bad or just bring it up out of no where; you take away from some of the light w/ darkness. We are ALL aware that the DR has problems and they should be discussed but some ppls motives are suspicious when they have NOTHING good to say about the DR. Everything smells like sh!t if it has to do w/ DR. There is no objectivity among some ppl here. There is no reason to try to make this news into something bad. Why not just leave it for the no-good news instead of trashing every news on sight (better said: on [web]site) regardless of it's content.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
To el mayimbe: thanks for getting the point, I try not to get aggravated but like you said before the same people (josean, dreadlocks, etc) always like to make negative comments when We should be happy that in a way our country is improving.
What I get aggravated for is when they want everybody to believe that they are from the same country like me and you.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
To baldoria: If tourism is the #1 source of income for our economy why trying to change the facts (regardless in which way is done) money is getting into the country.
Don't try to overanalize this news (Plus how many people work and make money) with activities related to tourism in our island
Written by: Escott, 15 Jan 2008 9:55 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
I had a freind who only wanted jobs where he was the President. Of course he wasn't qualified to be President.
You people want the High Paying jobs but the masses are NOT QUALIFIED. I think I read that there was 42% unemployment here or some such high number but you all don't want the low paying jobs?
Don't you think that a foreign company would LOVE to hire Dominicans in higher paying jobs?
It would certainly be cheaper than importing people here to fill those same position, right? They simply can't and be successful.
I have had Dominicans working for me. One fellow was continually trying to hustle my customers. I spoke to him many times about this and told him I didn't want him to do this. Well he finally hustled the wrong customer who didn't take to being hustled and then he came to me to intervene which of course I didn't. This fellow was making US wages btw but he had the need to hustle anyway which I couldn't figure out. The fellow gave him some fear. GOOD!
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
To escott: my favorite drug is Bustello coffee in the morning with irish creme.........
wakes me brain cells up and keep me focus the rest of the day.
Thank God I never done drugs in my life (if you have done it) good for you buddy hopefully you enjoy the uplifting experience.
Written by: Escott, 15 Jan 2008 9:57 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
Jr
Your post seemed like the brain cells hadn't quite woken up yet!
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
That's the thing. If people didn't critique this article, this discussion would have never taken place. And as long as people are contributing to analyze a social problem, to help the DR move away from the state of extreme inequality and underdevelopment, then we're moving forward.
we all have points, we all realize that there are goods and bads; but highlighting only the "goods" is equally as flawed to us, as highlighting only the "bad" is to you. does that make sense? When the G. says "things are great b/c our banks & tourism is growing"; my responsibility as a citizen is to cry out that the "Emperor is not wearing any cloths." The G will always highlight the positive; but when they try to hide reality by only focusing on the positive, then we need to call them out, no? and that's all we're doing.
SO keep the debate going, and hopefully we'll educate eachother into a new state of understanding.
From: United States
Baldoria, there is enough bad news on DT.com to discuss those issues. The fact that the DR should diversify in their investments we can all agree on but that can be discussed on the appropriate articles that mention flaws in DR. And I understand that every now and then we go off tangent and talk about other things. But again, I start questioning ppls motives when they bring up every single bad thing in the DR whether it's good news or bad news: ALWAYS. Is it arrogrance bc they think they know exactly how to solve all of DR's probs and think themselves better? or is it ignorance? I'm not sure but like I said b4, ppl lose credibility when they bring up everything from the fact that the DR does't invest enough in sector X or even start comparing the DR to country's like Cuba (in the future! as if they were psychic) on articles like like this one. Its almost like good news hurts them and they have to bring it down for their daily dose of bitterness.
Written by: Escott, 15 Jan 2008 10:23 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
It appears that there are NON Dominicans that don't live in the Dominican Republic constantly using this forum for other reasons which I don't understand. One fellow just has toxic hate of the US and has no ties here what so ever. One other Mr. Dreadlocks hasn't come forward with any info and I have asked him. curious what his ties if any to here are.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
What's important about posts are the ideas that are conveyed. What does it matter that the idea comes from a Tibetan Monk in India? If people post, we should take their points as part of the dialogue, and not try to censor participants. The merits of the points are enough for me. Those who are reactionaries and have flawed arguments, call for a curtailing of discussion, for a limit in participation.
Plus, some people may even question the ligitimacy of Dominicans abroad, or that of Foreigners living in the DR? Or the uneducated? or women? or non-whites? and so on... Discrimination starts innocently enough, but it spirals. Discrimination often hides under the banner of "nationalism"; but nationalism does not have to equal discrimination in any way. Read the article on identity and discrimination from a few weeks ago.
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....and-Identity-in-Dominican-SocietyI hope these discriminatory comments will sto
Written by: Escott, 15 Jan 2008 11:20 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
Not trying to censor. Just trying to place a value on messages based on agenda. If the person just has a bad agenda such as bashing the US or Bashing the DR it would put less value on what they said.
One person tried to say I couldn't afford to live in the US knowing nothing about me but said such a statement which was funny. When a person has been here ONE TIME and just promotes CUBA and only spreads TOXIC hate about the US it makes me wonder why?
From: United States
to Escott; funny, i thought the internet was a free country and people the world over had a right to express their opinions, regardless of whereever they lived. i guess you are the guy who is now defining the rules as to who can post on this forum. i do not ask you to agree with my ideas; i have an interest in the dr just as you do, and i have caribbean roots. i want to see the progress of the entire region, not only the dr. unlike you, you will not see me posting comments such as ¨dominicans have no morals¨, because, to me, that is counterproductive. i analyse things and make comparative assessment. to say that the dominican tourist model returns sub-optimal outcomes is not being anti-dominican. tourism is the number one hard money earner in this country today, which makes it the most precious asset. if you think that the most strategic resource a country has should be controlled by foreigners, then we have a divergence of opinion. if you dont find it startling that spain controls
From: United States
66% of all hotel rooms in this country, then we are wasting time arguing. i hardly think that the united states congress would allow japan to control 66% of the american information technology industry. the implications of control are too dire. what if all these spanish consortia crunched some numbers and found that it was more financially advantageous to convert the hotel rooms to condos for sale to wealthy europeans and eastern billionaires? what do you do then? there are many islands in the caribbean who have done a lot more with a lot less, not the least of which is barbados. they have a different take on the subject, which is why their tourist industry benefits the population more than ours does. the shadow price or opportunity cost of investing in tourist infrastructure is the benefit we forego in other areas. and to say that a maid´s job is better than no job at all is tautological, but reductionist. why cant a structure be put in place wherein more benefits accrue to
From: United States
dominicans? to my way of thinking, it is mercantilism all over again. the product is here in the caribbean, but the fruits are going to europe, while dominicans toil in the menial tasks. and it is simplistic to believe that foreign investors would rather employ locals, if they could find them. there are millions of unemployed in europe, or rather people who would love a job in the caribbean. it does not take much to lure them here. they have much greater cultural juxtaposition with their compatriots, and are therefore more favorable employees.
From: United States
to Bani1624; you mentioned me by name in your post, but i think you must be referring to another post. i spoke only about tourism, yet you asked me what my post had to do with tourism. secondly, i do not recall using the word cuba in my post. take a second look at what i said. if you dont understand it, i will be happy to explain it!
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
To asco: like I told you that was my secret or drug (Bustello Coffee and Irish Creme) I'm not joking around and you could try one day, who knows maybe We will agree on something.
And if you did drugs in the past it's ok nobody is perfect in this world.
Written by: Escott, 15 Jan 2008 7:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
Dear Mr Dreadlocks,
The internet is a free country and there is no reason why you shouldln't post your opinions. I just wondered what if any your ties are to the DR? If I had no ties I wouldn't be wasting my time posting someplace I had no interest in.
You aren't going to solve world hunger here or do any great things for Humanity here or get any awards such as a Nobel prize on DT so whats the point if you have no ties here?
Written by: Escott, 15 Jan 2008 7:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
I have had coffee with Baileys many times. Very very good and better with a half a shot of Nochello tambien.
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 9:22 AM
From: United States
I was having a conversation with my wife last night about this particular interesting conversation. Now, my wife and her family come exactly from the part of the Dominican population that I often critic on this forum. She is a white upper class Dominican, they own most of the land in the monte cristi area. I for one, come from a very poor family and grew up in a small town in the outskirts of Santiago. We have our differences because I do not like the people they represent anf the abuses that many of them inflict on the poor, simply because they have money. I told her that yes, there is alot of positives going in the DR, but the negatives are much more and evil. So people like me would concentrate in denouncing those negatives and forcing the country to look at this issues and hopefully some change will take place. I am not in anyway what so eve against the DR, it is my country for God sake. But for the love of my people and personal experience I am morally and ethically,cont
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 9:30 AM
From: United States
obligated to denounce the system that denied me my natural rights when I was there. If I was to simply defend the DR and not look at the issues, then what I am doing is supporting the system that was represive towards me when I was there. I am concerned that some people here have very little tolerance to hear the other side of the argument and are insensitive to people that simply want to contribute to the forum, but that have different opinion. Just because you feel for the Haitian's condition in DR, and denounce the injustices, that does not mean that you are Haitian. I have never been to Haiti and I anot planning on going right now due to the safety issues over there, just like I have put on hold my dream vacation to Egypt, due to safety. This does not mean that I have no understading of their situation and treatment. I have seen the treatment first hand in DR. I often read some of your posts and guys let me tell you, please measure your insults, it is detrimental and,cont..
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 9:37 AM
From: United States
once again I am starting to get that feeling of disappoinment on the behavior of the people that represent my family and the people that my duaghter will one day call her people. If you guys want to have the forum to yourself to simply defend DR, you should also become active members of your community. The Aliansa receives doantions year round and now we are collecting food for releif purposes after Olga. Why do you come down and donate to those organizations that repreent the country that you love so much. Donate to the Dominican Institute, so they can continue their great work. I am sure that some of the ones that bring up the negatives are the ones theat love the contry the most. Because when you face the real toguh issues your love is genuine, it is always easy to go the down the smooth road, but difficult to go down the bumpy road, because you'll get allbeaten along the way. But real nationalist, will do this time after time.
From: United States
The bottom line is that it does not matter if DR is number 1 or not in tourism as long as all the profit are going to foreign investors. These investors are having the time of their lives with all the profit their getting from this hotels while workers are only getting enough to put food on the table(if they get good pay). Tourist always comment about is how nice, happy, and helpful are the people in those hotels. However those valuable players in thsi game of tourism are the ones that get the least out of it.
From: United States
you see, Escott, using your logic, only people who live in Iraq should post opinions about the war there. you do not live in Cuba, but you have the most vociferous and robust opinions of that country. similarly, you do not miss an opportunity to trash hugo chavez, although you do not live in venezuela. so what the heck is your point? since when do you have to have residence or specific interests in a country to express an opinion about a situation there? and who gave you the idea that i post in order to save humanity or win the nobel prize? is that why you post? i post because i have the right to, and, just like you, like to express an opinion sometimes. it bewilders me that a foreigner such as yourself, who is not a dominican national by birth, should insinuate upon himself the right to determine who gets to render an opinion on dominican issues. and for someone who is so protective of the country, i find it bizarre that you refer to dominicans as "YOU PEOPLE"
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
you just dont know how many of those abused workers at our hotels would love to change places with the hotel workers of cuba so that they to could donate their paychecks to the state.No wonder there is such a long line of dominicans waiting outside the embassy wanting to move to the workers paradise of Cuba.While the Dominicans are exploited with cell phones ,motor bikes and internet computers and television the cubans dance around Fidel and Raoul in complete happiness and...............ignorance.However they know they are protected by the secret police on every corner
From: United States
to Gouletcolonial: you say that the cubans dance around fidel in ignorance. ignorance of what? i also think it is a little condescending of you to make reference to cellphones and televisions, as if those are the important trappings of the good life for the poor. we know that cuba is not perfect, and ,since i have been there a few times myself, i am not in a rush to live there. but there are people who were born into the system, and are happy with it the way it is. some people in this world believe that everyone wants mcdonalds and starbucks, and those who dont have it are deprived of the wonders of life. people who are not raised on a steady diet of tv commercials are not as materialistic as we are in the so-called western world. you are probably one of those people who believe that members of tribes living in the andes would gladly trade their lifestyles to acquire an i-pod and a blackberry. some folks have higher callings!!!
From: United States
Dagtan: The point is not to talk bad about DR. I have criticized many things about our country and know that there's a lot of work to be done there. It is true that these issues should be discussed. But your motives are questioned and your words lose credibility when you constantly bash the DR even when there is GOOD news.
Maria: what difference would it make if it were rich dominicans instead of foreigners? do u really think rich dominicans are willing to pay more than foreigners? In a biz perspective, as long as there are hundreds of willing dominicans who will work for u for X amoung of pesos (even if u personally think it's low), that's what the pay will be. U can open up a resort or hotel if you'd like, what's stopping you or anyone else here? since you're so against foreigners.
DLocks: Out of curiousity, what is your nationality/origin?
From: United States
Mayimbe: what does it matter? what is this new phenomenon on the internet to establish national identities? opinions are universal, and where someone was born has no causal effect on his point of view. lets just say i have a vested interest in the succes of the dr, and, when i see insane initiatives such as the metro, i just go berserk! what makes me even more berserk is those who defend it as being a good idea. if i was from the planet Pluto, ( which i may very well be), that would not change my viewpoint on asinine decisions.
From: United States
I think it matters bc it seems like you have an agenda here. Everything stinks to u if it's DR related. I'm just curious what's your vested interested and unless you are so embarrassed by your origins, what they are. Of course it's up to you to share them, I understand if you wish not to disclose.
From: United States
Mayimbe, before i lose my train of thought, i like your analysis on the supply price of labor: " as long as there are hundreds of dominicans willing to work for x number of dollars, thats what the price will be." do you think that they are " willing" to work for a pittance, or is it that they cannot do better? do you think that all the young girls functioning as ladies of the evening (and sometimes daytime) are happy to be plying that trade? no Mayimbe: it is called necessity without alternative. if the governments educated the people to a point where they were functionally employable, they would not have to settle for subhuman wages. maybe that is one of the reasons why there is no emphasis placed on education: there will always be a large pool of cheap labor, and a large market of people to buy crap items from the merchant classes.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
to dreadlocks.........are you kiding ignorance of what .....how about freedom to drown yourself in information from television,or the internet ignorance of the fact you are living in slavery.that you use granma your only newspaper to wipe your behinds with ,because thats all its good for......because you will be arrested if they find your contraband internet probably turned in by your next door neigbors the cuban STASSI You wish this kind of a life on the dominican people ......then go.... there is no line waiting to get in to that giant prison you call modern Cuba.......if they dont accept you try north Korea
From: United States
actually, Mayimbe, you are so incorrect when you say that to me everything stinks if it is dr related.the dr is one of the treasures of the planet, full of natural beauty, magnificent people, and abundant natural resources. the fact that it is doing as poorly as it does in so many human indices is what ticks me off. i have no agenda; you seem to, with blind ,inexplicable allegiance to this regime. do you think that i didn't have disagreements with the past regime? but at least we had the idea that hippo could not accomplish too much, as a man of limited intellectual visibility. but Leonel has more academic awards than a dog has fleas, and there is no excuse for some of his decisions. he was a college professor, yet he refuses to extend education to the country, instead settling upon the nonsense of a metro. i know i make you mad with my aversion to the metro, but , even if i change my mind and agree with it, it still is a crap idea that has no basis in sanity.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
the material western countries are disgusting in their chase and consumption of consumer goods however the freewill factor must be taken into consideration........who wants KIM or FIDEL or HUGO making their decisions for them
From: United States
I'd like to agree w/ u. But I think that part of it is bc they can't do better due to their lack of skills and some of it is cultural. Dominicans that complain the most about not having money r the ones that always have $ for alcohol or parties. No matter how many opportunities you give them, they will not take them. Just like dominicans who go to NY. Many make it far but most don't. I know dominicans (hispanics in general as well as other ethnicities; born & raised in the US) who are citizens and can take advantage of financial aid from the gov. to get their education...but do they do it? no. Many don't even finish HS. A lot of this crap about "why r my barrio friends still poor if the country is doing good" is simply bc they are lazy pessimistic bums who want things the easy way and find it easier to complain. These are things that take time and even generations to fix.
From: United States
Mayimbe, I am a new york boy, and i see dominicans in the usa busting their butts day and night to earn a living. the cavalier, devil may care, manana attitude in the dr is not as much in evidence where i see dominicans. i am working on an idea which i describe as the opportunity cost of leisure at home and abroad. bear with me while i explain it as simply and accurately as i can. the opportunity cost of an item is the benefit you give up by foregoing the next best alternative. let us say, for example, you have a choice of a) going to work,or b) going to the beach. if you go to work, you will make some money, but you will miss the fun of swimming and glaring at the ample treasures of nubile young women. many people in their own countries opt for the latter, because survival is not that urgent, and the leisure is more intense. however, when they go abroad, they have to fight for survival. they do not have an uncle on every corner to feed them. they do not have 50 childhood friends
From: United States
to hang out with, so they go to work instead. haitians in the dominican republic work harder than dominicans because they need the money for survival, and leisure does not mean that much to them here. maybe in haiti they are just as carefree as dominicans are here. i dont know if i have done a good job explaining the concept, but i am saying that the idea that dominicans are congenitally lazy is insane. they may not work as hard as haitians at backbreaking jobs, but they work hard in foreign countries, wherein they do not derive the same amount of pleasure from simply hanging about
From: United States
That's no excuse to work harder for progress. And if those same dominicans choose to give priority to leisure, so be it, but stop complaining about not having opportunites only bc u don't take them. I have family who came from poor backgrounds in the DR but busted their buts and took advantage of state schools like the UASD to improve their own economic and social situations in DR. Anywhere in this world, one needs to strive to better themselves, they can't just depend on others for everything.
I'm not saying all dominicans are lazy. Most of my friends are dominican and most of them are college educated and hard workers. I know there r also a lot of hardworkers in the DR. But what I am saying is that the ones who complain the most r the barrio ppl that r friends w/ some ppl on this board who take their word over any proven improvement of the economy/DR society and so they believe that if they (barrio buddies) aren't doing good, then the country is doing no good.
From: United States
And by the way, most of those dominicans who work their butt off in NY are not w/ high paying jobs. Why do YOU think they do it? yes, bc they can't do any better based on their lack of skills. But the fact is that they DO have jobs and they ARE working and considering their lack of skills, it's good that they at least have these jobs and w/ these jobs, they have a better chance of at least providing them w/ their basic needs. These jobs would be considered "less than human" to many others. I doubt you'd be interested in cleaning toilets all day but it's a dignified job for those who lack skills to do otherwise. Which is why it IS good that tourist arrivals have increased in the DR bc this creates more jobs that to you may not be quality, but it's a dignified job to many that can now provide the basics for them and their families.
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 2:45 PM
From: United States
Mayimbe you need to educate yourself a little more. I used to think like you until education liberated me from such state of denial. I will always be a critic of the Dominican governments as long as they put their energy into unecessary sectors of the population. The reason for me to do this is because I was denied, and not because the people from the barrios did not do well or not doing well. I am not oging to sponsor a system that never provided me with a viable opportunity to compete at the same level as everyone else. I remember , that one time our local school was detroyed by heavy rain. We did not had a school built for a year and a half. We were taking our classes under a big tree and thank God that the teacher was kind enough to stick with us and continue instructions. I have helped this person tremendously with medecine and money, because I recognize her efforst and desire for us to be sucessful, while the government did not care. There are alot of people in that,con
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 2:56 PM
From: United States
situation today and people are still not getting those natural opporunity to pursuit hapiness and economic estability. If you want to learn more hard working and that the system has nothing to do with the sucess rate of minorities here in NYS and specially NYC. If I take your point seriously, then I can simply say that the failure and drop out rate among Dominicans in NYC schools is because they are lazy and do not wnt to do the work. I do not think so Mr. Mayimbe, you should go to the NYU metro center and do some reading on the plight of Hispanics students and how the privilage that is ingrain for white students in the system allows them to do far better than Hispanics. It is not because white students are hard working and hispanics are lazy that there is such a large educational gap. It is because of the system that is favorable towards white communities and kids. Please read Mr. Pedro Noguera's work on this matter, he is a good friend and a great person, cont..
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 2:59 PM
From: United States
I am sure that if you e-mail Mr. Noguera he will be more than happy to show quantitative dat proving my point. We are not lazy people, but the system continues to puts us down killing our motivation and spirit. The same thing is happening in the DR and if I spend my hours fighting this here in the U.S. to allow Hispanics, amybe some of your own family members to get equla access to education, then I will do it with more fervor in my homeland.
From: United States
While I will not say that part of what you say may be true dagtan, a lot of that is used to make excuses. My parents came to the US at almost 30 yrs old w/ no enlgish or education and three kids: me the youngest: 9mths old. They worked at anything and everything from factories to cab driver, etc. But they both educated themselves, took advantage of CUNY, both have their master's, and although they speak english w/ an accent, they are both HS teachers; they never let any stats or "conspiracies against minorities" get in their way of progressing. I have not made any excuses and neither have my siblings. We are all college educated and know that the only obstacle for us of progressing is our own self-doubts and excuses such as the "white man bla bla bla." Look at asians, who's stopping their progress? who's stopping the thousands of dominicans graduating? 50% of all hispanics in cuny are dominican; 25% of all hispanics in universities in NY are dominicans (the highest). cont:
From: United States
contd: But what about the rest? most of them? what's stopping them from going to college? or finishing HS? their lack of understanding of the importance of education, the lack of wanting more, too many conform to easy once they get an OK-paying job. They'd rather pay good money on nice clothes para privar instead of saving up money to educate themselves (at least a technical job). It is not the white man or the system so much as it is themselves and our culture. The same thing happens in DR. Though there are less opportunities, THERE ARE opportunities but many don't bother. Dominicans want schools and hospitals but dont' like to pay taxes, they want electricity but don't pay for it. They want to receive but not give/sacrifice.
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 3:35 PM
From: United States
Mayimbe I admire your resolution and high self steem, nonetheless, it is not a "conspiracy" I hope that your parents do not fall into the same trap as many of the few Dominican professionals that often think that there is no escuse for those that did not make, just because they made it. I am glad to see that they got into education, since only God knows how many role models we need. Mayimbe, as I have said before, only about 10% of Dominicans manage to finish college, please research it and you'll see it. I am a sucessful Dominican that came here when I was 14 years old with no English and today hold a six figures job. I killed mayself and I sacrified my youth and teen years to preserve my scholarships and grants because my family did not have any money. But not everyone is able to fight the system as you and I did. Only a few have the motivation and hunger that we have shown, my mother has a 4th grade education and she came and did not go to college or became a professional,con
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 3:41 PM
From: United States
not because she did not wanted to, but because there were no services in the Bronx where we came to live. If you look at the schools for example in Battery Park and the schools in Washington Heights, there is a disproportionality of funds and certified teachers. More than 90% of the teachers working in the Battery Park area have masters in their subjects, while not even 50 of the teachers working in poor minority areas have. Your parents should know this since they are HS teachers and if they work in poor areas, I am sure that they often complaint about what other well to do areas get. What happens in the heights and Harlem would never happen at Battery Park, because it is not acceptable. Another example Mayimbe, look at the Riverdale area of the Bronx, this are gets a disproportioned higher amount of funds than the schools in Dominican heavely populated Kingsbridge. Riverdale has one of the most extensive arts program in the city, while kingsbridge does not have been proven,cont
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 3:47 PM
From: United States
that students who are involved in the arts, go to college five more times than those who do not. Final example, Both Battery Park and Riverdale have the two best High Schools in the NYC school system, the only two with high ranks nationally. They are Bronx High School of Science and Styvesant High School. You see, if I think like some of you to only point out the good, then I 'll simply stay quiet and do not do enything because I live in one of these communities and my kids have a guarantee advantage over the neighboring kids from the get go just becuase they get more funding and activities than the others. If you are given the impression that you deserve less, then you do less, is not about "Conspiracy" that is a cheap excuse from a person that do not wants to recognize that there is a problem and do not want to see for what it is. I do not believe in conspiracy Mr. Mayimbe, please read the works of PEDRO NOGUERA, thanks.
From: United States
First of all, my family nor myself do not look down on those who never made it. The politics in NYC schools is disgusting and I agree w/ you on that; my parents are also disgusted and are looking forward to retiring in the DR in 3 yrs. This does not take away from the fact that education is not a priority in our culture. I will agree that this has a lot to do w/ DR governments and although this gov. should and must provide for more funding in that sector, you cannot take away from the fact that no other has done as much and that there are many programs that are giving more and more dominicans opportunities they previously did not have. Programs such as the solidarity program, Cyber Parks, gov. paid tuitions, extensions of the UASD and the planning of a completely free community school are some examples. This gov is not to blame for generations of a ppl who never gave priotiy to education even when opportunities have been given/are given.
From: United States
And just to recap my original point that relates to this article: yes the DR has countless amounts or problems and there is much to do. But you have to start out small so in the meantime, the fact that tourist arrivals are up means more jobs/opportunties and even if you don't see them as quality jobs, remember that we have a high unemployment rate and a lot of unskilled ppl and so long as there are ppl willing to work and can survive from these opportunities, so be it... whilst we find solutions to better educate the DR. There is no need to bash good news by mentioning and highlighting all of the problems of DR...ALL OF THE TIME. An example would b if I were to tell a group of ppl that I graduated college and they all trashed that news by highlighting how most dominicans don't graduate and/or "yeah but u don't have a PhD" etc. etc. Anything to bring me down or in this case bring the DR down w/out at least balancing ur words by admitting that this is good news.
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 4:21 PM
From: United States
Mayimbe, I know exactly what you are saying. But we all have different purpose in life and I do not blame the present government, nor I blame any government, what I blame them for is for supporting a system that does not work and only serves a few. The NYC education systemis full of politics that is driven by the same motives that the politics in DR. Remember, Mayimbe, both in NYC and in DR there is a dominant group, that refuse to let go of their privilege position in the social, economic and politico aspect of such city of country. Only difference is language, same motives of preserving privilege and an upper leg on the poor and underprivileged. That is the reason why people like me that forced them to give me the opportunity for my persitance and desire to break the barriers and challenge the glass ceiling, once I made it, I felt the necessity to denounce all the hoops that I had to go through to get where my white friends are. This is the reason why I fight, cont..
Written by: dagtan, 16 Jan 2008 4:27 PM
From: United States
people are marginalized due to their economic position and color of their skin in the DR, just like they are in NYC. The main difference between the people in NYC is that they are highly educated and care much for their reputation and we have a government that is fairly detached from state's afairs and can act on injustices. So we can get programs that are desgined to help people like you and I become productive citizens. Americans, do not like bad publicity, so advocates like me take adavantage of that to force them to recognize that our kids are not doing well and they need to deliver more funding to those areas in need. In the DR this is not even conceivable, and people support this represive system openly without fear of action from the government because they know that the government is ineffective and it can be bought with the mighty dollar. Remember, people come first and then country, it can not be the other way.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
LAds, here's something off topic - I'd be terribly interested in meeting some of you and potentially setting up a regular "salon" - not the beauty kind - to chat about DR matters. OBviously we're all interested, and I think we can all benefit from face to face interaction.
TO that end, maybe we can aim to have two running "salons"- one in Santo Domingo and one in NY.
We just need volunteers to help set up - essentially chose a location, and send out emails to whomever expresses interest.
How does that sound?
if you're interested email me @ baldoria23@gmail.com.
Also - I'm currently in NY and will be leaving back to the DR Next week, anyone up for getting together Monday @ 6:00pm in Manhattan?
I expect some emails ;)
Written by: dagtan, 17 Jan 2008 8:21 AM
From: United States
I am in, I'll e-mail you ASAP. I have a lot of work lately, but I'll be more than happy to invite you to come to my job and share some interesting things with you.
Written by: chads, 18 Jan 2008 8:35 AM
From: United States
Hey people, do i need to remind yaaaaaaaaa. there is no other beautiful country like the dominican republic, AT LEAST NOT IN THIS PLANET. so let cuba loose they,l just have to compete so what we been competing for more than 500 years.
From: United States
Mayimbe, what you do when you write some of your postings, is to actually agree with me; it is the law of unintended consequences. one of the reasons why dominicans, and any other immigrant group, for that matter, strive harder in the usa is because of opportunity. though imperfect, and unequal itself, at least the usa gives hope for advancement. the so-called lazy people in the dr do not try to get ahead in the dr , because, in their minds, the game is rigged against them. miraculously, they go to the bronx and work 16 hours a day. the issue is that they will end up with something in their pockets for their effort. in the dr, they work 8 hours for some jeepeta-owning ¨comerciante¨, and have to borrow the money for the moto-concho ride home. that is why leisure is more valuable to them than work; in both cases they are gaining nothing, but at least if you do not work, you cannot lose! ( in their thinking). unless a real living wage becomes a legal imperative, we will discuss the
From: United States
purported laziness of dominicans forever. the other issue is that example comes from the top. politicians and others at the top of the social pecking order have always done things by shortcuts; they steal more often than they do not. everything is a scam, bribery and payoffs for everything, and morality takes a back seat. well, what do you think the common man will learn? with a lack of education, lack of training, lack of hope, lack of vision and lack of a good example, what kind of person can we expect? ever get a dominican repàirman to fix something for you? he will get it running, but it will break in 48 hours..know why? he learns by watching others, not by training.. because government does not believe in education, but in underground trains. so even though he can find the problem, he cannot determine why it is happening; he does not understand the theory of the machine. ever hear an audio loudspeaker in the dr? all treble and bass, unbearable to hear. every one i have seen
From: United States
is a mirror image of the other, and they are all incorrectly designed. but nobody understands the technology, so the problem goes uncorrected. the result is that the people become accustomed to horrendous music reproduction, because they have not heard better. this is true for everything else. we will always disagree on these things, because i am hurt when i hear my friends explaining to their girlfriends where puerto rico is on the map, or who is the president of cuba. how in God´s name can we expect people like that to take work seriously?
Written by: Escott, 18 Jan 2008 12:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
I am so glad that the conversation is turning albeit slightly towards education and not about "IMPERIALISTS SOMETHINGOROTHERS".
That is the biggest problem here in my opinion. With that comes advancement, high paying jobs and self respect and self responsibility.
Not trying to be snooty or look down my nose at anyone just stating the facts as I see them.
In the meantime I am thankful for the growth in Tourism and although Maria complains the profits leave the country there are endless benefits to the DR. Salaries although small trickle down and think about all the service businesses that are growing with the tourism. The Butcher, the baker and the Lolipop Maker are growing businesses because of this. That also trickles down through employees, services provided to these people and much more.
You need to think of business as your friend not only for what it brings but for the other businesses they support.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
This is what the imperialists are bringing to the D.R. along with yachtsman and marinas and plenty plenty jobs and capital.....from todays New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/travel/escapes/25golfhomes.html ........Hundreds of millions of dollars yes dollars Comrade cuba will never have this kind of developement as long as it is run by thugs and stooges of the communist party.....by the way does anyone know who won the elections in Cuba on sunday ......I am still in suspense
Written by: Belial, 25 Jan 2008 5:43 PM
From: United States, Texas
"This is what the imperialists are bringing to the D.R. along with yachtsman and marinas and plenty plenty jobs and capital.....from todays New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/travel/escapes/25golfhomes.html ........Hundreds of millions of dollars yes dollars Comrade cuba will never have this kind of developement as long as it is run by thugs and stooges of the communist party.....by the way does anyone know who won the elections in Cuba on sunday ......I am still in suspense"
oooo
You only want to tell everybody that you're a cappie or want to be cappie.
But everybody knows already that you are a want to be.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
From: United States
its not that we feel good when we bring up bad news on dr. its just reality, i work for united states gov. i constantly go to dr, and i have to say when you get on a airplane to travel to another destination, i want you to count how many single men are traveling into that country and i want you to ask yourself why? we all know why but its never spoken about ... prostitution runs while and lose in that country it is so devestating the dominican people dont even know that dr govement is making a fourtune from them and then to top it off the gov dont even help them in any way. your goverment steals the money and splits it only on them. so when you say your country beat everyone in amount of tourist be honest they won in prostitution..... lets remember its 2009 and still this country shuts the lights off on its own poor people the water is the same people have to get up in the morning with buckets of water to get water before the gov shuts it off on them so please to clap or feel prou
From: United States
i cant believe how people say this country is improving.. its 2009 and still this country still shuts the lights off on the little boy or girl trying to do his homework. not to mention the water crisis.. and you say its improving the only thing working out great is the gov, stealing all the money for there fancy cars and homes let me put it in another way , all the fancy resorts all the hotels and the cabanas, cant even touch the money prostitution makes in a year in dr.. its 2009 the only thing improved in this country is the metro train . oooh did u know it was built by united states good luck .......
Smaller
Bigger
Close Gallery
Facebook
Digg this
del.icio.us
Technorati
Yahoo
http://www.elcaribecdn.com.do/art....87B8E3895AC5FC7807&Seccion=10
Most of the tourists in Cuba are from the EU, Asia, and Latin America.
Despite its huge popularity, DR tourism concentrates profits into the hands of foreign investors whereas in Cuba about half of the hotels are mostly or wholly owned by the state which spreads the tourist profits over the 11 million population, providing the Cuban people with highest standard of living in Latin America if one deigns to accept education, health care, nutrition, and housing as the chief indicators of these standards.
The mass of DR profits go to foreign lenders, foreign shareholders, and overpaid executives of the companies that own the facilities.
The DR people are screwed.
- poverty
- inequality
- corruption
- crime
- energy costs
- salaries for politicians
These statistics are empty. Need to drill down and ask the question, how does the country benefit from tourism? Cheap jobs, environmental deprivation, expropriation of profits, funneling of taxx money to build infrastructure in tourist areas, and increased imports? Maybe we need to re-examine our development model, and invest in industries that actually help develop an internal market, instead of continuing to cater to int'l wants and needs. THis may be painful in the short run, but guess what, our current situation is painful already. Don't be afraid of change! If we continue doing what we've been doing, we'll get the same results. We've focussed our society and econ. on external markets, and all that it has produced has been poverty and inequality. Maybe it's time to try something else.
I love DR . you say theres bad jobs. I think theres bad jobs for the people who dont work hard enough so they go to other countires because there lazy.santodomingo is doing good. So if you dont like it you dont have to go there we dont need you. go to cuba . DR is doing better then them and If your going to talk bad about DR dont go on this website OK go to cuba s web. santodomingo ALANTE ALANTE!!!!!!!!!! no matter what they say
oooo
You hear TexasBill. He's talking to you. He doesn't like what you're saying. I told you that you're on the wrong road.
I HAVE WITNESSED THE COUNTRIES GROWTH AND YET NOT PERFECT..
IF YA HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY ABOUT THE DR SHUT IT !!!
Dont HATE appreciate!!!!!
I moved here in 2004, and since then i have seen tourism decrease if anything. the locals claim that before Leonel there was more tourism all year long. Now WE all wait for season time for things to get better and it just keeps on getting worse.
And that curfew is helping out any, i mean what's the purpose of it? they say for less crime BS! if anything crime has increased due to the lack of jobs available , especially when people were laid off , due to the curfew.
DR needs Change for real.
Check out this link, Dominicans rhyming about change
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsViWXv2ru4
Thank you so much for that execllent link. After watching that if any one votes for Lio-nel Fernandez and the PLD they should have their head examined.
00000
If you can't tell a lot of lies, then don't speak.
Nobody cares about truth. Nobody wants facts.
Tell us lies ... as long as they are nice.
Leonel Fenandez and his opponents say that the other is a thief who is utterly corrupt.
Now, if you can't say something nice about them, then shut up because free speech is the expression of nice lies.
Well said Belial & baldoria23
I was happy to read the article and do NOT take it as bad news.
They eat on the boat. They gamble on the boat. They sleep on the boat. They dance on the boat and they fornicate on the boat.
They walk around the DR and buy a little junk ... here and there, then they get back on the boat to go to another island to repeat their parsimonious routine.
The only things that these cruiseship tourists leave behind are mountains of waste and garbage for DR landfills, but these mountains were originally produced on the boat before it got to the DR.
So, how many of the 3M are cruiseship tourists ?
They do one good thing however. They walk around the DR with half of their as- hanging out of their scanty garments.
---------
I unsuccessfully tried to avert my eyes; so, I should get some points for effort.
In other words, given the present level of investment in tourism and the incentives given to foreign investors, it's no wonder that tourism is the major component of the DR's GDP; but if the same level of investment were dedicated to other sectors of the economy that provided more profits, better jobs, more domestic infrastructure, maybe tourism would be less important. Does that make sense? It's like this, if you have a parcel of land and you rent it out so that someone brings their cattle to graise on your land, you get some marginal benefits; but if you decided to instead cultivate your land, you will get more benefits from working your own land.
By focusing on Tourism, other sectors of the economy, which may be more economically beneficial to the country than tourism, are marginalized.
Another thing, when a Spaniard comes here to run a Spanish hotel, he gets paid, takes the money and spends it HERE like the rest of us that live here. Sure profits go to pay off mortgages and sure that goes to other countries because we are not competitive with double digit interest rates here so why shouldn't someone take mortgages from another country?
Mr Dreadlocks I just don't get you nor your position here. You are not Dominican and live in the States so what exactly is your interest anyway?
I know that some people here have no interests here and just use this as a soapbox but what is your deal?
Plus, since 1492, our land has been focused on external markets w/o producing development, what makes us think that the three aforementioned development strategy which are focused on external markets will be any different? These are recipies for maintaining the status quo, not to change the current state of underdevelopment.
PS: don't want to say who so they don't call me RACIST............
That's why I always will have my negative opinions about them
So sad that you don't recognize his merits and that's why you are ungrateful....
PS: don't want to say who so they don't call me RACIST............
That's why I always will have my negative opinions about them"
You should either read the messages more carefully or share your drugs with the rest of us. Personally I would like to share YOUR drugs! That way I can learn more from my American Doms!
Again, we need to stop reacting to comments and start engaging in discussion. God knows that people who either paint every thing good or everything right are missing/hiding something. Which means we can learn from each other. But if we dismiss one point of view or label it illegitimate for some arbitrary reason, like the one you allude to JRRubirosa, then it leads me to think that you are trying to hide the weakness of your argument by beating your chest louder and louder. You don't need to do that, at least not here.
With that said, Tourism has some positives, but if we hide the negatives we will never developed our e
So, without getting defensive, people need to recognize the good and the bad, and strive for a better tomorrow. Plus, one needs to always ask, what's the opportunity costs of any development strategy. In other words, if we did not invest so much money in tourism areas, what else could we do with that money? Maybe build an R&D industry, a pharmaceutical industry, perhaps manufacturing, or "green" electricity...
Just b/c the DR is #1 in tourism, we should not stop there. WHAT'S NEXT? Ok, you give us low paying jobs, how will you now give us better ones? How will we build a middle c
But in facts it s very easy to say, it s not so much good for the country and doms, the country needs more ...
What i did :
- in my first company i try to organise "hight paying jobs" with doms, Results: no one try to work as good they were paying ..
- in my second company i try to organise "hight paying jobs" for quality .... with doms, Results: i never recieved quality ...
- in my third company i try to organise importations , Results: it works !!
So you can say what you want if you never try to work with doms you will never understand how it works
Many people try like me to do something here in DR with "hight paying jobs" and quality, so much time it doesn t work !! Not because they don t know but just they don t want ! you can pay more you won t have more !! And in fact i d prefer to have fabrics here but ... in quality it s impossible !! And i m the first to be very disappointed of that !
What I get aggravated for is when they want everybody to believe that they are from the same country like me and you.
Don't try to overanalize this news (Plus how many people work and make money) with activities related to tourism in our island
You people want the High Paying jobs but the masses are NOT QUALIFIED. I think I read that there was 42% unemployment here or some such high number but you all don't want the low paying jobs?
Don't you think that a foreign company would LOVE to hire Dominicans in higher paying jobs?
It would certainly be cheaper than importing people here to fill those same position, right? They simply can't and be successful.
I have had Dominicans working for me. One fellow was continually trying to hustle my customers. I spoke to him many times about this and told him I didn't want him to do this. Well he finally hustled the wrong customer who didn't take to being hustled and then he came to me to intervene which of course I didn't. This fellow was making US wages btw but he had the need to hustle anyway which I couldn't figure out. The fellow gave him some fear. GOOD!
wakes me brain cells up and keep me focus the rest of the day.
Thank God I never done drugs in my life (if you have done it) good for you buddy hopefully you enjoy the uplifting experience.
Your post seemed like the brain cells hadn't quite woken up yet!
we all have points, we all realize that there are goods and bads; but highlighting only the "goods" is equally as flawed to us, as highlighting only the "bad" is to you. does that make sense? When the G. says "things are great b/c our banks & tourism is growing"; my responsibility as a citizen is to cry out that the "Emperor is not wearing any cloths." The G will always highlight the positive; but when they try to hide reality by only focusing on the positive, then we need to call them out, no? and that's all we're doing.
SO keep the debate going, and hopefully we'll educate eachother into a new state of understanding.
Plus, some people may even question the ligitimacy of Dominicans abroad, or that of Foreigners living in the DR? Or the uneducated? or women? or non-whites? and so on... Discrimination starts innocently enough, but it spirals. Discrimination often hides under the banner of "nationalism"; but nationalism does not have to equal discrimination in any way. Read the article on identity and discrimination from a few weeks ago.
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....and-Identity-in-Dominican-Society
I hope these discriminatory comments will sto
One person tried to say I couldn't afford to live in the US knowing nothing about me but said such a statement which was funny. When a person has been here ONE TIME and just promotes CUBA and only spreads TOXIC hate about the US it makes me wonder why?
And if you did drugs in the past it's ok nobody is perfect in this world.
The internet is a free country and there is no reason why you shouldln't post your opinions. I just wondered what if any your ties are to the DR? If I had no ties I wouldn't be wasting my time posting someplace I had no interest in.
You aren't going to solve world hunger here or do any great things for Humanity here or get any awards such as a Nobel prize on DT so whats the point if you have no ties here?
Maria: what difference would it make if it were rich dominicans instead of foreigners? do u really think rich dominicans are willing to pay more than foreigners? In a biz perspective, as long as there are hundreds of willing dominicans who will work for u for X amoung of pesos (even if u personally think it's low), that's what the pay will be. U can open up a resort or hotel if you'd like, what's stopping you or anyone else here? since you're so against foreigners.
DLocks: Out of curiousity, what is your nationality/origin?
I'm not saying all dominicans are lazy. Most of my friends are dominican and most of them are college educated and hard workers. I know there r also a lot of hardworkers in the DR. But what I am saying is that the ones who complain the most r the barrio ppl that r friends w/ some ppl on this board who take their word over any proven improvement of the economy/DR society and so they believe that if they (barrio buddies) aren't doing good, then the country is doing no good.
TO that end, maybe we can aim to have two running "salons"- one in Santo Domingo and one in NY.
We just need volunteers to help set up - essentially chose a location, and send out emails to whomever expresses interest.
How does that sound?
if you're interested email me @ baldoria23@gmail.com.
Also - I'm currently in NY and will be leaving back to the DR Next week, anyone up for getting together Monday @ 6:00pm in Manhattan?
I expect some emails ;)
That is the biggest problem here in my opinion. With that comes advancement, high paying jobs and self respect and self responsibility.
Not trying to be snooty or look down my nose at anyone just stating the facts as I see them.
In the meantime I am thankful for the growth in Tourism and although Maria complains the profits leave the country there are endless benefits to the DR. Salaries although small trickle down and think about all the service businesses that are growing with the tourism. The Butcher, the baker and the Lolipop Maker are growing businesses because of this. That also trickles down through employees, services provided to these people and much more.
You need to think of business as your friend not only for what it brings but for the other businesses they support.
oooo
You only want to tell everybody that you're a cappie or want to be cappie.
But everybody knows already that you are a want to be.