what a surprise, umm i want to visit that city and check it out :S

Euromax, I am surprise that you are not bashing Cubans also. As stated before, the government in DR needs to diversify or pray that Cuba stay the way it is now, otherwise, our country is in trouble. The times that I been to Cuba, one thing I kept seeing was the great foundations and flexibility of their infrstructure. Yes it is not as modern as that of SD, but it is better though out and posseses better ability of expansion due to the good foundation plannings. It would take years for this to happen, but DR can not simply count on that and not to expand throughout the undelveloped areas in south east and north west of the island.

^^^^^Are sure your Dominican?, cause it seems like most of you are cubans disguised as dominicans, swearing that when Cuba is free it is gonna tear DR apart. Cuba is amazing, but DR is making alot of progress and its incredible. DR already has many cruise ship ports like La Romana, Sans Sousi (which will become a major port in the carribean), Puerto Plata, And Samana....so stop "Bashing" on DR please!!!!

Domi6- you obviously haven't traveled to Cuba or toured Cuba and got to know the country side. If you did, that is where you would see the sharpest contrast. I agree with you about our cruise ship ports, but if you've ever taken a cruise, you would know that arriving in port is only the beginning. You want to go out and explore and feel safe doing so. Cuba beats us hands down in this regard. We have lot's to do in order to compete toe to toe with Cuba. They seem to respect their country. We on the other hand are abusing it. The garbage everywhere speaks for itself. We Dominicans are ready to fight anyone who speaks badly of our "Patria" but aren't prepared to pick up a piece of garbage and place it in the garbage bin. Explain that to me!

Thank you very much sir, just look at the Washington Heights neighborhood in upper Manhattan and you'll see the same attitude replicated. It is not easy to be Dominican in NYC and having to put up with what goes on there.

give me the names of the mickey mouse bottom barrel cruise lines that are going to cuba.I can assure you no major cruise line is going to cuba only mickey mouse lowball lines go to cuba.The middle class tourist who cruises has a difficult time dealing with the poverty of the Dominican republic ,their comment cards repeatedly say this .Now can you imagine what the giant prison of Cuba would do to their happy vacation ,combining grinding poverty and secret police fogettaboutit.In the Dominican Republic the happy people and knowing the economy is growing compensates plus the naturaleza is equally beautiful,without having to look at sad faces and not knowing which one is the cuban stassi

the commissars can have the cheap all you can eat rubber chicken buffets and drink till you puke with no name booze all inclusive low low end tourism. The Dominican republic is moving upward from that because they have paid their dues for the last twenty years and now have an infrastructure this is why the Four Seasons ,Ritz Carlton,Sofitel,Rosewood and other luxury resorts are coming here,,we have cultivated middle management and it will soon be management.The commissars can have the El Cheapo end of tourism.No one wants to see that much suffering when they are on vacation

to Domi6; i had no idea that Puerto plata had a cruise ship pier. thanks for the update. next time i go there i will look for it

Hey, gouletcolonial, it seems like you have the post you posted on microsoft word and simply copy and paste it on here. The reason for this is that you posted the same exact material in the same order, basically a replica a few weeks back. We new new language and ideas sir, not the same.

Dagtan, it is a struggle dealing with some of these people; i have no idea where they get their information. this rubber chicken nonsense is beyond reply. people do not travel to foreign countries to EAT! and if we are talking about low end tourism, all inclusive is the worst offender in that respect; just ask playa dorada!

and dreadlocks you know absolutely nothing about tourism and how it works .and Daglan what we need is a change of ideas and government in Cuba where I get my info is that I have dedicated my life to tourism in the carribean 30 years in the caribbean basin from Nevis ,antigua,V.I.s stMarten you name it P.R. anguilla and barbados the top and most expensive resorts So when I say rubber chicken everyone in the business knows you mean buffets not ala carte like the quality hotels for the most part ,few exceptions and Cuba has the worst food and beverage because the employees are paid in worthless cuban currency and the Beard keeps the rest every professional hotelier will tell you how bad the Cuban resorts are and what kind of people go to them ,more than once.........CHEAPO....because it sucks..people do not travel to foriegn countries to eat.....ARE YOU KIDDING....no they go for indoctrination..the struggle is for freedom in Cuba ....tell us about their elections yesterday.WHAT A JOKE

forget about cruise ships for cuba until the thugs are gone.I will be the first to welcome Cuba back into the competitive tourist market and it will be better for all ,The carribbean is one destination like europe people dont always go to the same country year after year.Remember prior to castro Havana was a great city of the world Santo Domingo,and San Juan were hick towns....the Cubans didnt need castro to be great...they have always been known as the jews of the carribbean...the smartest and the richest....and I do not wish to offend the people of Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic.Ihave lived for four years in SanJuan and now ten years in Santo Domingo and I look forward to years in Havana when the thugs are gone

gouletcolonial - Most people don't go to Cuba for the food. The first time visitor will clearly be disappointed, but the fact is that people keep going back and it's NOT CHEAPER than coming to the DR. I can assure you of that. Tourists have to pay for everything in Cuban Convertible Pesos that have a 7% premium on the US dollar. Tourist keep going back because there is something special about the place. The embargo has frozen time and that alone is reason to visit. It is like going back in time when the world was simpler and safer. Since you are in the travel business, I could see why you would want to put down Cuba. Competition for the tourist dollar in the Caribbean is fierce so why not denigrate the competition? We have a lot of work to do here to our infrastructure outside the tourist hotels. Let's stay focused on that and learn from Cuba. They face the same climatic problems that we face and in spite of all the added pressure from the embargo, they are doing a much better job.

juan do you think the repeat business for cuba is strong you are smoking something,and going back in time when the world was simpler is what the puerto rican affluent traveler says about the dominican republic and the dom rep has absolutely nothing to learn from cuba about tourism unless its bad food even worse than our all inclusive and except for the curious they are el cheapos and you say they are doing a much better job ..you know nothing about quality tourism ...the beard confiscates the pay checks of the workers and replaces it with worthless cuban script Leaving the employees to be constantly hustling the guests for dollars ..what a joke, Oh I am not going to st,barths this year I think I will go to cuba ,.it is so wonderful there..it is a giant prison ..dont forget to take your laptop you can use it as a paper weight.Learn from cuba are you joking there is not one premier luxury resort on the whole island,if you think Melia or Sofitel are first quality in havana WRONG

juan if you are staying in casas particular run by party stooges for the most part then this is like visiting the USSR before the fall interesting but the quality sucks.The major large resorts are poorly constructed and again poor quality rubber chicken buffets and no name booze ...deny it how can this be the direction for the D.R. dont take your golfclubs to cuba but this is a captalist diversion certianly not suited to tourism.......juansanto domingo...you no less than nothing about tourism in the caribbean..... or admit it you work for the cuban tourist board

Its not secret that when Castro dies and Cuba is free that it will benefit TREMENDOUSLY from investments. It will be without a doubt the new mecca of the Caribbean. Its proximity alone will make it flourish to the days pre Castro. More so now with so many Cubans in the states, flush with cash and eager to make the island back to its full glory.

This is not a knock on DR or any other Caribbean nation, but its reality. Cuba will cut deeply into the tourism pockets of many nations in the region. Its one of the few nations that has been relatively untouched and ripe for new development.

It wont happen overnight for sure, but it will happen I would say 5 - 10 years after Castro dies.
Once the flights start flowing more people will start going.

quality resorts for example Caneel bay,Sandy lane in barbados,half moon in jamaica,peter Island,ritz carlton anywhere ,Four Seasons anywhere,cap jaluca,Anguilla,Little Dix Bay yes I can go on and on these are 500 dollar a day resorts that are the epitome of luxury the D.R. is begining to open these kind of resorts what in Gods name can Cuba teach us about this kind of tourism COMRADE

gouletcolonial, I traveled to both Tahiti and DR for my honey moon. I was scared as hell in Tahiti, we stayed at that resort that is in pics all over the place, where the rooms are in the water. Being from DR we are always thinking bout sharks, but my wife wanted the stupid houses in the water. Then as both of our families live in the Santiago area, we spent 10 days at the JAKTAR, because it was the only adult only place in Puerto Plata. It was nice and we were treated like royalty, the food sucked, as it was to cater to foreigners, I wanted the tipical Dominican food. I did not leave the U.S. to eat the same shit overseas, so yes, I do not travel because of the food. One of the Taxi drivers in the resort saw my depression and told I'l com andpick up every afternoon so you can eat out. I became a regular at a place called "cachita" in puerto plata, love it, real Dominican food. I have been Cuba more than five times, we usually stay in varadero since my sister in law is,cont.

Cuba and have famy overthere. We stay at a resort in varadero beach, but always eat outside w did in DR. So once again, maybe for you food is important, but for me is not. The mst interesting thing about Cuba and the reason why people continue to go is th fact that it takes you backto a time that has been forgatten. Havan is frozen in time, the architecture is stunning and the place is real clean, I mean really clean and pristine. Yes the buildins are old, but they are absolutely beautiful and neat. The place in DR that comes close to Havana is the Zona Colonial, but this is a small srea, Cuba has an entire city. My comment is out of concern, because I know that hisplace iso day going to regain the pedesal tt it has always enjoyed since colonialism. The bottom line is that if I have 200k to buy a condo in the caribbean and you give me a choice between DR and Cuba, I will not hesitat and get it in Cuba because of the ability to flip the place for a hughe sum. Or think how,cont..

romantic would it be to take your wife to Havana for a weekend, there is no match.

Domi6 - This discussion is clearly about apples and oranges. You speak of one type of vacation and I'm referring to another type. If someone wants luxury one doesn't go to Cuba. They ration what they have and provide more than what they have for the tourists. It's a communist country after all. The places you are promoting have little to offer other than sun and sand. They have to make up for it with luxury. Big deal! Not everybody does tourism for luxury. It is typical of those who argue weakly to try to insult their opponents, calling those who what to visit Cuba Comrades or cheapos. As for me I know what I like and I clearly know what I don't like. I've been hustled more time in the DR than I care to remember. It also seems to me that this discussion began as a comparison between the DR and Cuba. No I don't work for the Cuban Tourist Board. I'm simply doing my bit to highlight that we need to improve ourselves and our infrastructure and build a solid loyal base of tourists.

the people who own hotel companies the largest and best in the world can distinguish between a schlock market like Cuba an an emerging quality market like the DR people like yourself who stay in casas particulares or the all inclusive rubber chicken resorts are not the kind of tourists the D.R. is begining to cater to with the Jack Nicklaus designed golf courses this is decidedly upmarket and billions are being invested in this high end market...........cuba you are joking... this is decidedly down market. what could they possibly teach the ritz carlton or Four seasons about infrastructure .They would not have come here if they thought they did not have enough middle management people who learned their craft in the all inclusives over the last 20 years .You bet we are talking apples and oranges...also people dont come to the carribean for any thing BUT sun and sand and GOLF...Thats why its hard to get a room in January .....DUH

gouletcolonial - You keep your head in this Caribbean sand and we'll continue this conversation post Castro. In one of your previous posts you said the following: "The middle class tourist who cruises has a difficult time dealing with the poverty of the Dominican republic ,their comment cards repeatedly say this ." Which is it? Do we have to do something about the poverty or infrastructure or is everything as grand as you say it is. I have traveled all over this Island and haven't yet found one road that wasn't full of pot holes. We have a lot of work to do if we want the tourists to keep coming back. Look at the mess around Puerto Plata. With your rose colored glasses on it is probably a paradise. By the way, name dropping only diminishes your arguments and paints as a poser.

juansantodomingo what I meant by the previous posting and middle class tourists reaction to a lifestyle and economic stature of typical dominican houshold is that they are unable to see the basic human happiness that is in abundance here ..because it is not wrapped in the consumer goods of their own existence their guilt is overwhelming,and they would rather look away than see the real humanity and its riches...In Puerto Rico a country very similar an economic standard much higher exists,but there are many trade offs and maybe something has been lost in the chase of the consumer society...but in the great country of Cuba the economics are even worse ...there the grinding poverty is matched with slavery of the spirit,where a man cannot rise to his potential because a bankrupt political system will not allow it Yes East Germany with tropical shirts,secret police and our fearless leader ..this is even worse than the consumer society.. We in the dominican must strive for a balance

gouletcolonial- In this whole debate, we must make the distinction between the people of this country and the physical country itself. I don't think that there is a happier people on this earth than the Dominicans. Having said that, most tourists who make it this far have expectations that have nothing to do with how happy the people are. Most tourists want to meet the people on their own terms by wandering outside the compounds that are the hotel complexes and mixing with the people. We simply don't have the infrastructure to make this happen properly. The roads are a mess, security is a joke when you have to fear the police more than the thief. Let's not talk about public sanitation facilities. A tourist stopping by a roadside food stand takes his life in his own hands. If he gets sick, he is in serious trouble. I went all over Cuba as a tourist. I met some happy people and some who were not but I never came across the grinding poverty that you refer to. Do they have access (continue

to consumer goods? No! Are they better off for it? Time will tell. One thing for sure they don't have the mountains of garbage that most consumer societies seem to have. I look at all that's good about Cuba and wish that we could have that here. Clean streets, safe streets, educated children, healthy children, good doctors accessible to any one who needs them. People who show they are really proud of their country by taking care of it and each other. The tourists that want to climb Pico Duarte are not the same that want to spend their day on the golf course, but if you choose to climb Pico Duarte then the infrastructure should be there. That way more people away from the beaches will benefit. When we look at Cuba we don't have to adopt or approve of their government but we should not reject it either because of their government. The repeat tourist goes there because of many reasons. I personally go their because of the slower pace of a safe lifestyle that has long ago disappeared here.

juan you must remember Cuba before Castro was a more prosperous richer and better educated than the D.R. with its geographic position to europe and the U.S.A. it had first choice of everything and Cuban tobacco was not better just closer to Tampa and europe but that is another story.Todays lack of garbage in the streets can be explained two ways during epoch of Trujillo there was no garbage thrown around like today.because there was no similar amounts of packaging in that era to throw in the streets like there is today.... and fear .Today Cuba has a fraction of the packaging we have and what is not reused out need is disposed of out of fear .I.imagine that 80 % of the toilet paper in Cuba is grannma newspaper and rightfully so,that is all its good for..but you are absolutely correct ,throwing garbage in the street is like a make work project for street cleaners in the D.R. a large education project is necessary.I also grudgingly admit that child health care is far superior in Cuba

gouletcolonial, maybe i dont know anything about tourism, but if i read your posts i will learn even less. i couldn't care less about your ideological leanings and your anti-castro stance; you are at liberty to take whatever position you like. but to act as though tourism is some monolithic activity wherein everyone wants the same thing is so simple minded that i should not even waste time responding to you. tourism is any activity wherein people voluntarily visit other countries, principally for the purposes of recreation. this takes many forms. some people, the ones you describe so repetitively in your diatribe, go for luxurious accomodation and great gastronomic delights. others go to see scenery, artifacts, treasures and history. people do not go to egypt to eat prime beef; they go to see the sphinx and the pyramids. the filet mignon is not what draws people to italy; it is the coliseum, the appian way, the leaning tower, etc. there are millions of people who buy tickets on trans

europe express and backpack their way through europe, visiting war memorials and battlefields, among other things. this is also tourism, oh great authority gouletcolonial, though it might not fall under the proper purview of your definition, since no sand and beach is involved. so be careful when you make blanket statements about something as varied as tourism; as we speak, there are guys making their way down some river in the rain forests of brazil, looking to link up with some andean tribes. i dont think they are expecting lobster thermidor when they arrive at their destination.

dreadlocks if you should ever have the opportunity to travel any where you would know that although a nice part of tourism back packing is.....PEANUTS in the overall picture and no they dont go to Italy for filet mignon they go for pasta and truffles the tour of tuscany vineyards and foccacia and gnocci and Parma ham yes people do eat and drink on vacation you may take rice and beans with you I dont know ,but if you knew about tourism you would know that the largest tourist attraction in california is visiting and eating and drinking in wine country Napa and Sonoma .The culinary delights of the caribbean are more difficult to come by based on the origin of the cuisine ,but people who travel here would not want to eat the bandera very often either

gouletcolonial, you are even more clueless than i thought, so i really should cease and desist trying to argue with you. and i have had the opportunity to travel, thank you: maybe not as much as you, but i dont need to travel to the sun to know it is hot. i dont know what is your vantage point for viewing tourist activities, but , to my way of thinking, if you took away all the slot machines and roulette wheels in las vegas and left only the restaurants, that city would go belly up! all i am trying to alert you to is the fact that people visit places of interest for other things besides food. and the scale of the tourism is not the issue: it is the aspect. new york city has one of the largest tourist industries in the world, not only because it has great restaurants. people who go to see the statue of liberty and ellis island are willing to eat mcdonalds, if that is what is available. they do not say that they do not wish to see a knicks game at madison square garden because they

will have to eat hot dogs! they dont visit radio city and carnegie hall ( now defunct) because of food. you are describing one category of tourist, the types that go to tropical islands to laze on the beach by day and drink and party all night. but there is more to tourism than that. i am willing to bet you that there are more people who are concerned with the spectacle than the food. i dont think that the people who go to rio for carnival will cancel their trip if one of their friends told them that the food in brazil was crappy!

that you realize that the great restaurants of the world have opened branches in Las vegas tells you something.......duh about eating and tourism and tourism is a package of which the cuisine is a very important part and the part that has the most profit ie. high end ie. eating in Paris restaurants after the Louvre and if you want to eat a hot dog on the street thats your business but that is not big business,like I said that is peanuts

tourism diversity.... you should read about sailboat race that has been moved from jamaica to the dominican republic.... Bare boat charter and boat provisioning can represent more income than all the backpackers and their granola bars you can imagine ....the down island race circuit ie. Rolex regatta and bare boat charter industry provides hundreds of millions of dollars to the economies of puerto rico Virgin islands and Antigua and St Marten and you can lookit up if you think I am kidding dreadlocks........in the virgin islands it represents 20 thousand hotel rooms...Yes it is true those people come ashore and spend a lot of money

I see some peopple see Cuva as a manace for D.R in tourism but lets be honnest. The D.R tourism is groing with giant step,despite other great destinations in the caribean like Jamaica and Puerto Rico none of these countries has affect D.R tourism, what the D.R really need is more diversity in the tourism sector for example the mountains,valleys and lot of places that are not just sand and beaches. Remember theres a lot of peopple in these world and not everyone have the same taste thats why diversity is so important in todays world. And one more thing that i would like to add, if Cuva goes foward it would benefit the D.R in the bussines sector for exportation and importation wich it would be great for boh countries. VIVA la REPUBLICA DOMINICANA y la raza latina............

Caonabo, you are on the right track, but let me remind you that PR and Jamaica areway more expensive than DR. PR does not have all inclusive rsorts and they kill you on the food and your stay. Pr is one of the most expensive places I have been. As to Jamaica they have few all inclusive resorts and are priced much higher than DR. The good thing about DRs that is hella cheap and is affordable for the masses, of course except the Dominican masses. If you try to book a vacation in the Bahamas get ready to pay top dollars for your stay and then on te food they simply kill you by tacking a 30% on top of the tip. was pissed any time I had to pay nthat 30%, BTW you'll find a lot of Dominicans working in the service industry in the Bahamas which is kind of cool since they wil hook you since you are one of theirs and they do not see many over there.

you win, gouletcolonial. i have some friends who go to bangkok and manila every year. until i started reading your exposee on the critical importance of great cuisine to travellers,i had no idea that they went there for the food. you see, every time they come back from vacation, they show me pictures and videos of beautiful, scantily clad young girls swinging on poles in gentlemen's bars.sometimes they even partake of crabs, but not the kind on the menu. the odd thing is that they never bring me back any photos of the buffet in the ritz-carlton: i wonder why? and all those american and other foreign engineers in saudi arabia and dubai, the emirates, abu dhabi, who also end up in thailand: maybe they go there because there is no escargot in the middle east? and, oh, the 2.5 million people who, until 2001, visited liberty island in new york harbor: i always thought they went there to see the statue of liberty. maybe you are right, and they do go there for the beluga caviar and

the scrumptious pate de foie gras. as for me, i have been to cuba more than once. i never had the pleasure of fine dining there, and ,quite frankly, i did not care. it is true that even the common food was not too great: the dr has it beat in that respect. but when i get another opportunity to return, the fact that i cant expect to cruise down the street and run into alaskan king crab legs and alpine goat cheese will not be a deterrent. i will trade that for the fact that i can go to any number of night clubs and enjoy a free jazz concert, see some fine art, ponder a country frozen in time, with wonderful ,if dingy, old buildings. throw in a slew of 1949 buicks and 1953 edsels, low crime and people with whom i can enjoy a civilised conversation, and i am happy. you can go and drink the 1949 bottle of courvoisier!!

Caonabo: countries like jamaica and barbados will never affect dominican tourism: they do not draw on the same population bases. because of language considerations, more americans go to the english speaking islands than to the dr, which draws more on europe for its clientele. a lot of people from england go to the all-inclusive resorts in the north coast of the dr, because they can get bargain prices, and are operating with less discretionary income. it is all a matter of demographics

dreadlocks you better recheck your demographics every year more yanqui gringoes come than the year before... they passed the europe 2 years ago that is where the upmarket tourists will come from U.S.A. what do you think they are building all these golf courses for?....... The Gringoes and the gringo retirees and Jamaica with Sandals resorts competes head to head with the D.R.in the all inclusive market...Barbados is generally more upscale......But it is one big pie

gouletcolonial, do you listen to yourself or do you just flap with your tounge disconnected from your brain? yanqui gringoes, eurotrash. These are a source of our bread and butter. You claim you're in the tourist business yet you insult the very clients who may want to come here. Like many have suggested above, I don't think you are who you say you are, nor do you seem to know much about this subject. Clearly you have some preconceived ideas but you should look for some othe line of work. You scare away clients with your attitude.

just the facts mam just the facts.......you dont know which side the bread is buttered on Dont be so sensetive to these terms they were addressed to dread locks or whatever who said the totally wrong statements concerning jamaica and barbados and that our big market is europe wrong wrong wrong..sorry but thats what we are Yanqui Gringos you can look it up....and if you think the back packers and all their altruistic glory are going to bring more economic development to this country than the golfers and the yachtsman then you are truly in the dark about high quality tourism and the economics and benefits of tourism...I may sound elitist but the sooner we grow out of ALL all inclusive the better...I have been here a long time

Funny that you commies say how bad Cruise tourism is for the DR but that it is great for Cuba:) You guys crack me up.

You all won't listen to a guy in the Travel Industry because you all know everything a professional doesn't? LOL, too much!

One of you said how clean Havana was which is a joke. Havana hasn't seen even a coat of paint in 59 years and is a big old dump that is falling apart. Yes the architecture is fabulous and from another time but it is crumbling there without a dime put into it. I wish I could post pictures here of Havana.

Yes there has been a Cruise Ship Dock in Puerto Plata for many years. They are expanding it now in order to get the ships back.

The agenda of some of you folks are pretty tranparent.

You go to an all inclusive for typical Dominican Food? All you get in most AI's is institutional type crap. Just like you get if you were in the hospital!

Ok, back to reading the humor. Too Bad Mr. Toxic hasn't posted. Wold have topped it off

gouletcolonial, the only intelligent remark which can be attributed to you in all your posting is your opposition to all-inclusive tourism. it has done nothing positive for any area in which it is located, and is usually downscale tourism. your model, which seems to base itself on the arnold palmers and donald trumps of the world also has its fragility, but only time will tell.

Escott, to the best of my knowledge, there is no cruise ship PIER in puerto plata. there are remnants of the old pier, which is now defunct. the fact that a dock is in puerto plata does not mean anything; ther are pyramids in egypt, but, last time i checked, nobody has been buried in any of them lately. and i have no idea of what your concept of cleanliness is. the fact that the paint has peeled off the buildings does not mean that the city is not clean. remember, Escott, there are other readers and posters besides yourself who have also been to cuba. if i remember, you have been there once. even i have been there more often than you have. so we might have different opinions than you do, based on first hand knowledge. my recollection of cuba is that of a city without garbage and rotting animal carcasses all over the landscape. that is my idea of cleanliness, not six coats of oil based enamel paint!

I guess everyone has a way of looking at tourism. The only thing i can say, is to focus on what is at stake. Making money from tourism, or turning tourism to something more profitable for the country. Due to the staggering number of hotels owned by foreigners, tourism isn't bringing DR the most amount of money, yet its exposing DR to foreign investments. The only comment I can make is that, DR is beautiful, and soo is all the other islands in the Carribean. But i would like to caution the DR government in focusing on tourism too much. Cuba is a threat to DR's tourism. Call their hotels shanty, but 2 million people were willing to visit the dingy hotels. Just imagine when the embargo is lifted and the cuban millionaires in miami starts building hotels back in cuba. What does the DR do now? Tourism is a fickle industry, DR needs to focus on how to turn tourism to a tax haven for major corporations

The "Dominican Today" Jan 20 reported "The eastern city of Santiago de Cuba, the capital of the province of the same name, is a major destination for cruise ships."

So, according to "Today," cruise tourism is booming in Santiago de Cuba, huh?

Strangely, the Jan.24 Daily Journal of Caracas reports the exact opposite about cruises to Santiago de Cuba:

"The number of cruise ships visiting Cuba has plummeted nearly 90 percent since 2005."

"Last year, about 7,000 of the 11,000 cruise ship passengers who visited Cuba docked at the Havana terminal, with the rest arriving at ports in the eastern city of Santiago and the small Isla de la Juventud south of the main island"

http://www.thedailyjournalonline.com/

So, Santiago got only 4000 cruise tourists last year. Pardon me, 4000 is hardly a "major destination."

We need to look at bahamas or bermuda to see how these two countries utilized tourism and made it a destination for corporations and companies requiring skilled labor. At the end of the day, Cuba has an abundance of skilled labor, proximity to the US, pristine beaches, rainforest, and everything else. I think the threat is in more ways than one.

"We need to look at bahamas or bermuda to see how these two countries utilized tourism ..."

0000

Not exactly. There is a huge difference in profitability between cruise tourism and tourism. Cruise tourism leaves almost nothing ... but waste ... for the stopover country to enjoy. The profits of cruise tourism go to the owners of the boat who don't even hire locals. DR brags about its 3 million tourists last year, number one in the Caribbean. But how many of the 3M were useless and unprofitable cruise tourists?

very few of those 3 million were cruise tourist who came to the D.R. we are a tiny destination for cruise ships.On a good ship day there are 10 yes ten count em ships in st thomas harbour that is the same number the whole island of the DR gets in 3 weeks and last year that was more than in a month so we are growing from one who has been on many inaugaral cruises as a guest of the cruise lines

WE have been very fortunate to have had Casa de Campo pointing the way for the last 30 years tourism owes a debt to the vision of it s founders . Because of it the DR cou ld hold its head hi in the Non Plus Ultra category and introduced many many investors to our beautiful island..........Now we have Punta Cana Beach Club,and Seahorse and Cap Cana and many others the equal of the traditional Very best in the carribean......cuba with its present system is limited to SCHLOCK tourism

If you all ,had sat in as many dumb boring C.H.A. meetings as I have you would know these things also

"cruise tourism is booming in cuba where did you read that in grannma the commie paper "

0000000

If you read what you criticize, you would have certainly noticed the link I posted:

http://www.thedailyjournalonline.com/

The "Daily Journal" is the oldest English-publication in Venezuela, going back to the '50s and established then by rabidly pro-imperialist US reactionaries.

In 2006, it was purchased by a member of the Venezuelan bourgeoisie from the bestial US reactionaries for $3.5 million.

Again, if you examine the post, you will find this link in it.

What is the source of your own decadent and perverse opinion on cruise tourism? Was it some garbage outlet of the US bourgeois media?

Was that why you didn't cite your source?

we dont want any info on hugo chavez we want cruise info not propaganda.......GOOGLE look it up you cannot miscount cruise ships they are two big and besides........ Nobody goes to cuba on a cruise except bottom barrel stuff the major lines wont touch it the secret police standing around on the dock turned everybody off.......come on belial name the cheesy cruise lines that go to cuba and then... read the reviews...comrade belial you are living a dream,soon everyone will be going to see hugos workers paradise you think thats real tourism

"and no money in cruise tourism....tell that to st thomas ,st marten,aruba, old sanjuan , they have the highest store rents in the carribbean."

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http://cruises.tripres.com/index.....-ED5A-B055086E5EC9E77F&DID=45,7,11,12,13,45&SO=0

This 75% "off" is not from the cruise profit ... although it seems to be, rather it's from the profit of onshore tourist facilities that compete against the cruises. The cruise is not giving up a dime.

Some people believe that 100% of the money is inferior to 25%, for the cruise gets often over 75% and the onshore gets, at most, 25%.

Most destinations onshore with full sevice offer shopping which is constitutes most of the 25%. The question is whether onshore gets the non-shopping money from cruise tourists. Obviously, the 75% "off" is raked in by the cruises.

comrade belial,......... castro rejects cruise ships he never had more than two or three low level lines that wanted to go there anyway st thomas according to your own sources on a good day got more than the Beard got in a full year you can look it up.."..come visit the tropical gulag that is cuba" you are smoking the same stuff as dreadlocks

Cappie gouletcolonial, so, you switched your line after you finally read the post.

he rejected what he could never have,it is very simple its called sour grapes ...No one ever went to cuba on a cruise...well almost no one and No one ever will as long as the government is run by commie thugs and stooges mouthing the party line

the cruise industry provides tens of thousands of jobs ashore and afloat and does not take their paychecks and turn them into worthless cuban script ....like the cuban hotel industry

he rejected what he could never have,it is very simple its called sour grapes ...No one ever went to cuba on a cruise...well almost no one and No one ever will as long as the government is run by commie thugs and stooges mouthing the party line
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"he rejected what he could never have." You're nuts.
"it is very simple its called sour grapes " You're nuts.
"...No one ever went to cuba on a cruise." You're very nuts.
"well almost no one and No one ever will as long as the government is run by commie thugs and stooges mouthing the party line." You're really nuts.

sorry comrade belail.....this is what bourgie capitalist running dogs are bringing to the dominican republic ...and a lot of jobs and money with it ......We lead the way in golf gratias Casa de Campo for showing the way....read this in todays New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/travel/escapes/25golfhomes.html

Read ur article, very impressive. I just wonder how much of that money go to the Dominican people. I am sure capitalist dogs are happy that they found some new monkeys to exploit. If you know capitalism, the weaker people get exploited. In this case, it would be dominicans. I am all for tourism and people learning about the culture. But to the point where they have gated communities and really don't care about the locals, it seems like slowly our land is being taken away from us. Like i said, find a way to make tourism teach us how to make money from foreigners. Not let the foreigners exploit and make money from us. Hate Fidel, but his country will never allow 66% of its hotels to be privately owned.

what government would want to own hotels there is no example of hotels run by the government of any country efficiently countries have trouble running buses and trains let alone hotels in Spain their national hotel chain of paradores national is the exception but they are mostly charming in 500 year old buildings.........we are the envy of the caribbean with these projects and many people will become prosperous because of them......local people that is ......and the beard will never permit the employees of his hotels to work for anything except worthless cuban script

"sorry comrade belail.....this is what bourgie capitalist running dogs are bringing to the dominican republic ...and a lot of jobs and money with it ......We lead the way in golf gratias Casa de Campo for showing the way....read this in todays New York Times" http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/travel/escapes/25golfhomes.html

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"BUYERS seeking high-end golf getaways in the Caribbean have been heading to the Dominican Republic for years; in fact, ever since Casa de Campo opened its Teeth of the Dog course in 1971 in La Romana, the island has been a significant destination for golfers. These days, expansions and new projects are pulling in more prospective buyers."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25....lfhomes.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Don't be sorry, gouletcolonial. Most people can see that this NYT article has nothing to do with cruise tourists.

comrade you know zero about the cruise industry,.....and as I said before it the cruise industry is never going to cuba as long as cuba is run by thugs and stooges of the communist party

to anonymous... there are two positions one is Cuba and slavery the other is Puerto Rico and free markets...If the people are left to their own choices then there is not enough room in Puerto Rico for 8 and a half million more Dominicans.....do not believe the prosperity of P.R. is only due to some grand federal handout a helping hand yes but the prosperity of that island is home grown...many things are diiferent but many more are the same....the cuban example is moral bankruptcy of a dictatorship......by the way who won the elections in Cuba on sunday I am still in suspense

gouletcolonial, you are, if nothing else, amusing. ignorant, but funny. because you cannot refute my arguments with logic, you accuse me of smoking something. i may not understand the nuances of every sand bar on the equator, but i understand economics. i want you to point to me the SIGNIFICANT benefits to the island from the tourist industry, and show me figures, not schoolboy put-down one liners! 89 cents of every dollar earned in tourism is repatriated to either spain or the foreigners who own the assets. i do not subscribe to the simplistic school that says that any job is better than no job. when foreigners come to the dr, set up hotels, bring in the upper echelons of management from europe and north america, then hire dominicans for the lower range jobs, i have a disagreement with those who see this as progress. when foreign travel operators stress to their clients not to leave the all inclusive compounds because of the natives outside, effectively killing towns like peurto plata

i dont get the point of the efforts. you rhapsodise over the mega-bucks tourists, as if the country is deriving any great cash intake; when trips to cap cana are being sold in key west, all bought and paid for in us dollars, what do we get? especially since all the assets are owned by foreigners? we get some tax dollars, and a few maid salaries. so, gouletcolonial, forget castro for now; help ME, the guy whom you say knows nothing: educate me with figures. we know you are good at insults, but i prefer data. and tell me what portion of the tourist dollars in punta cana are earned by the immediate outlying province, if you can. i am not impressed by the fact that ritz carlton and maxims are here; tell me what they do for the dominican man in the street!!

dreadlocks you are not impressed with the quality of the investments coming to the D.R. is probably because with that west indian chip on your shoulder you would not be able to get a job at any level in these new ultra high quality resorts. Let alone as general manager which is the position you think you deserve.......because you had been exploited in the past you think you should start at the top.....WRONG AGAIN

gouletcolonial: i knew you couldn't do it. you have no facts, no data, no analysis, so you come out swinging like a child. you are amusing, even if ignorant. do you understand the concept of GDP growth, by the way? if so, please explain it sometime.

dreadlocks ...imagine you are an alcoholic there is a glass to the middle with beer the question is ......How much? half full.....half empty.......and your answer would be .....are you gonna drink that.? the three answers are..... fact .......data and.... analysis....You can twist them around any way you want but our development is the envy of most of the carribbean ........ you my little friend cannot twist that one around

dread locks ........you asked for figures ,try these on for size....if you dont think golf tourism brings money into the country ,and remember we are far ahead of jamaica and everyone else in this category......sorry Puerto Rico but we have now passed you for golf excellance.....dreadlocks read the numbers now you and fidel can weep togetherhttp://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....ants-to-become-a-golf-destination how do you like them apples

DR has some fantastic golf spots.
Hell isn't 1 being developed by Jack Nicholas and Tiger Woods or something?


"tell me what they do for the dominican man in the street!!"

Same thing any company does.
Provide JOBS. lol.

gouletcolonial; you assume i am west indian, because i choose a nom de plume with an island flavor. be careful when you assume things; a man of your limited intellectual wherewithal should stay on the straight and narrow paths of discussion.. as an older , wiser head, i leave you with this parting word; perseverance. persevere, son, and dont ever stop striving. if and when you graduate from junior high school, keep up the faith. go on to high school, and, if you have any energy left, you should ponder college also. the benefits are exponential; you will learn to write in cohesive, coherent sentences, you will acquire a vocabulary of sorts, and ,most importantly, you will learn to think in a less ad hoc fashion. you too can learn to be logical, rather than simply bellicose and aggressive. points in an argument are not made by shouting and ad hominem attacks, a fact you will learn if and when you attain a state of adulthood. in the meanwhile, God speed. you could be salvageable yet!!

dreadlocks....sorry if I hurt your feelings my little amigito,by calling you a mental midget but your half baked socialist ideas have been proven wrong over and over again.This resentment for people who know more than you and accomplish thru there own hard work a success that you think the government should provide will lead you to spend your life in misery of envy or worse.Stay in night school and keep striving for that GED.....and please dont get a job with the government......free enterprise works....if you work

Gouletcolonial; i guess you are beyond help. i suggest school to you, and you immediately issue a rejoinder laden with non-sequiturs and spelling errors. i will never cease my quest for additional knowledge, but , unlike you, i can defend my intellectual contentions with the weight of my academic resume. my wherewithal has already been recognised by people of merit , such as the secretary general of caricom; i dont need affirmation by some internet half wit who has not defended any of his positions by giving a single statistic, analysis or mathematical evidence. the internet is rife with nitwits who believe they know something because they watched CNN last night while it was being discussed by a panel of so-called experts. they then insinuate themselves into discussions with great enthusiasm and misdirection, insulting everyone who dares to disagree with them. in your case, you come off as a silly, misguided attempt at elitism. you assume that your detractors are underprivileged

woebegotten souls, looking for, as you depict it, a handout. you dont know me, Gouletcolonial. to assume that i have not achieved anything of merit, and am looking for anything from government, is asinine at best. i will die holding the position that everyone in a country is entitled to their birthright. your vicious dislike for fidel castro colours all your interaction with everyone, and it suggests that you prefer the pre castro era, in which a few caucasian folks owned everything, and the majority of the population were their possessions, their slaves and serfs, their prostitutes. you and i come from a different psychographic; i am a product of the civil rights era. i got my head cracked by cops in marches for justice in the usa. you, judging by your writing style, or lack thereof, come from the me-generation. you have no vision beyond the shopping mall. you measure a man´s achievements by the size of his wallet, not the contents of his conscience. in a mind such as yours, there is

no intrinsic right nor wrong, only dollars and cents. it does not give you any reason for pause if someone tries to defend the right of poor people for a just share; in your mind, a handout should suffice. that is why you keep making your condescending references to me looking for FREE MEALS.
you see the earnings of the poor as some generous largesse of the rich. the only hope for you is time. one day you might arrive at a more human place in your life, but that usually comes with maturity. i might not be around to witness it, but in 30 or so years you might become an adult with a purpose!!

the secretary general of caricom..................very funny

next you will be giving references from Vere bird

yes and again more references to free meals

gouletcolonial, much against my better judgement i shall respond to you, this time with a request. let me give you a list of posters, and i implore you to read their work.
1) Mr Lautaro
2) Frank The Tank
3)Baldoria
4) Davidjule
5)Mr Rancier
6) Dagtan
there are many others, such as texas bill, josean et al. there is one common thread running through their work which sets them apart from you; they actually know something! yet they do not try to make their points by noise and vitriol, but by dispensing facts and data. i still have hope for you, because you are enthusiastic, if misguided. study the attitudes of the aforementioned list and you too could amount to something worthwhile.

au contraire dready your students may buy into your socialist dreck but they will grow up and grow out of it.......as I said when you alledgedly claimed to have your head cracked during the days of dogs and hoses.......and I doubt it happened...or that you were around for it....but your racial chip on your shoulder shows.....If maxine waters and her ilk of lefties cannot stir up trouble here in the D.R. why? why would a lightweight like you try to keep it up

dready referring to posters comments as THEIR WORK shows how puffed up with air you are

gouletcolonial, this is counterproductive. carrying on a prolonged exchange of insults is beneath me, and, quite frankly, is my fault for engaging you, anyway. i read some of your posts regarding cigars, and , evidently, you do have some fields of knowledge. what i suggest is that you stick to those things. right wing talk radio labels is passe, and overused. when you post, stick to facts, which you have regarding certain topics. analysis is not your strongpoint, since you do not have a very disciplined and trained mind. your tendency to making unconnected statements is a dead giveaway that you are academically limited, but that is not a bad thing of and by itself. you can be an acceptable presence in a forum such as this as long as you dont seek to pontificate on issues you dont understand clearly. lastly, i dont have to prove anything to you regarding my personal associations, or my personal history. i lived through the civil rights era, and apparently, you did not. so our views on

victimisation, repression, racism, colonialism etc may be different. you consider a call for fairness to be socialist. if it is, i am the world´s foremost socialist. you apparently believe that only the rich and mighty should have a place on earth, and that everyone else is an irritant at best. hopefully, with the passage of time and maturity, you will have a less jaundiced view of how things ought to be,but are not!

I am honoured to know someone as puffed up as the WORLDS GREATEST SOCIALIST especially one who knows caricom flunkeys,I assume the previous Vere Bird referance went zooming over you head wrapped in tribal head gear of the rastafari I know him or his son Lester would have run you off his island with that goofy haircut.....I have lived all over the Caribbean for over 30 years from the fountian valley massacre on St croix to Machatero incidents in Puerto rico I doubt you know what I am talking about..Ialso lived in the south during the 60s and had time to spend a lovely 4years in Andalucia just after the the death of Francisco Franco VIVA FRANCO VIVA EL CAUDILLO that was for you worlds greatest socialist aka. HICK or wanna be outside agitator

I am honoured to know someone as puffed up as the WORLDS GREATEST SOCIALIST especially one who knows caricom flunkeys,I assume the previous Vere Bird referance went zooming over you head wrapped in tribal head gear of the rastafari I know him or his son Lester would have run you off his island with that goofy haircut.....I have lived all over the Caribbean for over 30 years from the fountian valley massacre on St croix to Machatero incidents in Puerto rico I doubt you know what I am talking about..Ialso lived in the south during the 60s and had time to spend a lovely 4years in Andalucia just after the the death of Francisco Franco VIVA FRANCO VIVA EL CAUDILLO that was for you worlds greatest socialist aka. HICK or wanna be outside agitator

gouletcolonial, do you notice that nobody else but me responds to anything you post in this column? everyone has some sort of camraderie with everyone else, even if it is at a point of disagreement.in your case, you are avoided like the plague, because the other posters are smarter than i am: they do not get into peeing contests with skunks. you are basically radioactive: a fool looking for a fight. i can suggest an easy way to achieve your end: put your hood and sheet on, and walk the streets of port of spain or georgetown.. you need psychiatric intervention: a person such as yourself, who appears to have not a shred of civility and good manners needs to be examined for a state of disequilibrium. your parents raised you to be an uncouth boor and philistine, without a shred of respect for anyone but your miserable self. to speak of "caricom flunkies" expresses to me what you are: a racist, white supremacist klansman hiding on the internet. if you are as tough as you try to be on

web, why dont you just mosey on over to bedford stuyvesant or harlem and shout a few racial epithets at passersby? i am sure it would be cathartic for you , at least before somebody did the world a favor and busted you in the chops. i read your posting about the rum situation, and nobody but yourself begins a post in this column by using an opening sentence such as yours. if you know something that others do not, then speak your piece with civility: you dont have to come on like some sort of world authority, because nobody here is setting themselves up as one. but i guess you will never forgive me for debunking your silly assertion that people travel in search of great meals. get over it: we all make errant analyses at times. even you, o great one, can be wrong in certain cases!!

that racial chip on your shoulder is showing..... you talk of civility....you are constantly playing the race card....which of these islands....do you love the most?....come on dready which will it be today?Iam worn out with the racism of american blacks who come to the spanish carribbean and cannot understand why everyone is not pissed off like them.....that raggedy stuff wont fly here SORRY but you are an outside agitator .....that stateside black stuff wont even fly down island...dont give me that Bed Sty bull,you are an angry young man compared to me....i have walked this earth much longer than you....people are to be judged one at a time...I am in my 60s and have a daughter of colour ....I would be stunned if you could match my life for diversity.....grow up and get a haircut or get a band or go to jamaica

that racial chip on your shoulder is showing..... you talk of civility....you are constantly playing the race card....which of these islands....do you love the most?....come on dready which will it be today?Iam worn out with the racism of american blacks who come to the spanish carribbean and cannot understand why everyone is not pissed off like them.....that raggedy stuff wont fly here SORRY but you are an outside agitator .....that stateside black stuff wont even fly down island...dont give me that Bed Sty bull,you are an angry young man compared to me....i have walked this earth much longer than you....people are to be judged one at a time...I am in my 60s and have a daughter of colour ....I would be stunned if you could match my life for diversity.....grow up and get a haircut or get a band or go to jamaica

Dread, for GOD sake do not put yourself in such position. You have way too much respect for lowering yourself to such an abyss in trying to have gouletcolonial see your point.

the point is on top of his pointy little head...I am calling all of you ignoramuses from the abyss.....sorry if I have insulted your work.....OH great puffed up socialist one with the funny haircut....Dagtan where have you been.?..in espanol es donde frejole? please add a little levity to this post sorry dready likes to call it his work ,but then I think hes an academic or is studies..whatever,he should stick to what he knows best ...God only knows what that is

dready and dagtan please readhttp://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....ecome-a-golf-destination#comments

You guys really been going at it ... biting and kicking ... over here.

I enjoy animus I find here.

comrade welcome to the party

comrade belial welcome to the party

Dagtan, i apologise to you and all the other civilised posters for allowing myself to be lured into this nonsense. you too, Belial. at least i am happy that you found it entertaining.after all, it is an ill wind that blows nobody any good. i am at fault here; i should not have engaged myself in a verbal foodfight with someone who has the mentality of a six year old.

Dredy what about the golf courses in jamaica....that shut you up ....did it not.......all lies I suppose.....am I interfering with your work,O Great Puffed Up One.....trying to rally the proleteriat or the politburo or political mental midgets you think are listening to you ...like comrade belly button and that group of hyenas

you had the last word, gouletcolonial. now go find some quiet place to hibernate.

"Dagtan, i apologise to you and all the other civilised posters for allowing myself to be lured into this nonsense. you too, Belial. at least i am happy that you found it entertaining.after all, it is an ill wind that blows nobody any good. i am at fault here; i should not have engaged myself in a verbal foodfight with someone who has the mentality of a six year old."

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God, better known as Duke Ellington, once said "I like chaos."

To bad God left town before this forum appeared.

The cappies and cappies want-to be, here, defend their failed economic sysytem of capitalism with a manic desperation and crackpot violence that befit only incurable lunatics.

whoa there Belial. i thought John Coltrane was God!!

God ... that is, Duke Ellington ... if He partakes of the madness around here must persist in a state of perpetual bliss.

They collaborated.

They created a work of art "The Feeling of Jazz" that towers over everything man has done.

(The Three Stooges) ...................have spoken........curly./.dred.........larry/belly........Moe/dag....