Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 9:42 AM
From: United States
A Failed Project in a Failed State!
Written by: Jander, 25 Jan 2009 10:13 AM
From: Dominican Republic
nay·say·er [ náy sày ?r ] (plural nay·say·ers)
noun
Definition:
objector: somebody who speaks against something, especially somebody who habitually expresses contrary opinions
Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 10:16 AM
From: United States
Now see if you can find the definition of CAP CACA and PONZI SCHEME!
Written by: Jander, 25 Jan 2009 10:29 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Now look at the picture those are real bulidings built on real land.
Just like the Metro is real.
Here is an example.
You borrow someone money based on their word because you trust them.
You lend money to someone who puts up a gurantee of eqal or more value.
This nothing close to your beloved 'Buzz words". PONZI SCHEME!
By the way Rudolf Guliani was quoted saying "naysaying' is psychatric condition" I think he was right..
From: Germany, Stuttgart
I think what josean is alluding to is this.....what exactly does this do for the Dominican that's living hand to mouth, struggling to make ends meet? Yet another resort? How about a massive overhaul of the DR's education system? That would seem like a more worthwhile investment to me.....something that will actually benefit Dominicans as a whole.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Again the whinners, complainers, depressed, frustrated, annoying and envious people!!!!!!!
This week headline in a magazine "Dominican Republic # 1 destination in the Caribbean"!!!!!!!!!
Voted by people that like Dominican Republic a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Josean your PHD in down sindrome is amazing and mesmerizing!!!!
Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 10:50 AM
From: United States
"By the way Rudolf Guliani was quoted saying "naysaying' is psychatric condition" I think he was right."
Now there is a role model for you; Rudy GOONIANI married his cousin, cheated on his wife, and turned the NYPD over to the mob via Bernie Kerik!
And let us not forget the BRILLIANT Presidential Campaign he ran for the Republican nomination!
Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 10:53 AM
From: United States
Josean your PHD in "down sindrome" is amazing and mesmerizing!!!!
Slow down your typing Rubi, its "Downs Syndrome!"
From: United States
Rubi, i see where you appear to ignore my request to define what is meant by number 1 caribbean destination. i outlined a few analytical tools, but, it appears, you have no interest in analysis. repitition of snippets seems more in line with your mental efforts
Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 11:12 AM
From: United States
NegroDeLaBachata,
Thank you!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Rubi do not let this gang of losers and socialists and whiners and complainers get you down ....Press on regardless ....Cap Cana is a winner ...it is the world economy that is impacting ...not the high quality of the project
From: Dominican Republic, Puerto Plata
East of Higuey, there could be a checkpoint with gates, military personel and...customs office. There could be a civil war on this side, it wouldn't be felt in that enclave.
The east has nothing to do with the rest of the country, it is like some big Disneyland designed to attract upscale tourism and rich Dominicans. A country within the country. Apartheid revisited.
It created a market for Haitian construction workers, Dominican cheap labour, and rich Dominican companies that supply the projects. But it certainly does nothing for the Juan Perezes of this world in terms of sharing wealth.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
water polo I disagree yours is a minority opinion
Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 12:34 PM
From: United States
wp,
On ocassion it seems to me, minority opinions have proven to be correct!
From: United States
waterpolo, well said. you see, Gouletcolonial shoots off again from the lip with more of his patented unsubstantiated remarks. he calls your opinion "the minority " opinion. you see, the preponderant majority of people in this country share your opinion. the project is basically something designed for a small minority of well heeled people, and the rest of the country can go eat cake. but, to Gouletcolonial, only people with money matter. the poor will always be in the minority, even if they outnumber the rich by a million to one. they were put on earth to serve the rich. i bet that when he is in canada, he has more empathy with, and concern for, the less fortunate. when he is here , he views the poor as an unneccsary annoyance, polluting the precious air of his golf club friends (all of whom probably despise him, and ridicule him when his back is turned). maybe it is because they do not look like him..
Written by: generoso, 25 Jan 2009 12:52 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
edited
Written by: generoso, 25 Jan 2009 12:52 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
The all inclusive resorts and other resorts that want to control their investment with fences and gate guards are doing just that, guarding their investment and protecting the visitors from otherwise
unpalatable guests.
It is done world over and I don't consider this practice discriminatory. It is done by society in many different scales, to protect their neighborhoods against criminal elements and undesirables.
I remember Boca Chica when I was a child and at that time it was the pinnacle of luxury resorts in the island and only for the very wealthy and influential. Look at Boca Chica now, it is a cesspool of
filth and undesirable elements including same sex street hustlers, and rampant drug trade.
Sosua had a similar story and only the rich families from Puerto Plata and Santiago had homes there.
Written by: generoso, 25 Jan 2009 12:53 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
If you dare go in the evening now to Sosua and you will find the same moral decay and street hustlers that
are in Boca Chica. On the other hand the protected enclaves like Punta Cana, Casa de Campo, Cap Cana and others thrive and prosper due to their exclusivist policies.
I lived in all those places I mentioned so I can attest to that as an eye witness, this not hearsay talking.
Besides the pure moralist point of view the economic values of the properties in the places that do have the gate guards and restricted entry, has been preserved. Unlike Boca Chica and Sosua where the values have dropped as conservative investors look elsewhere for their future property appreciation and stability.
Written by: antonioj, 25 Jan 2009 2:15 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 10:53 AM
From: United States
Josean your PHD in "down sindrome" is amazing and mesmerizing!!!!
Slow down your typing Rubi, its "Downs Syndrome!"
"
Joe you not off the mark on this one, you are seeing long term, politicians only look at short term gratification they need to be re-elected every 4 years.
By the way wacko Rubi is a butt of a joke, he failed at plagiarizing or typing, just leave HER alone.
Written by: Username, 25 Jan 2009 3:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic
funny how this article has no news in it. DT just bringing a hot topic back to get traffic.
Written by: Trujillo, 25 Jan 2009 3:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
As all of you can clearly see, progress and success really pisses off our socialist friends. I bet they don't know that there's another big project planned for Samana by the same people responsible for Cap Cana. That project will start after Cap Cana is finished, and I've heard it's going to be even bigger than Cap Cana.
Written by: TFISKE 
, 25 Jan 2009 4:40 PM
From: Canada, Alberta
Sorry dreads, I am back from 6 weeks vacation but I see your still complaining about the DR
Nothing will change with Josean and Dreads ...sad sad unhappy dudes!
They DR is not perfect but I ask you what is these days?
Cap Cana is going to survive just like Citi Bank and GM
What will Cap Cana do for the DR? Think about it for once and stop whining it will put the DR on the map for years to come. Just like the new cruise ship terminal in Santo Domingo.
Now lets get the roads and bridges built in the DR. Outside investment will slow big time now with home prices being so cheap in the USA.
Dreads you say your a smart guy (MR big time NY man) buy a couple of cheap homes in the USA now! Rent them for a few yrs and flip them and take the money and help all of your friends in your barrio. Or maybe send it back to your family in haiti.
Dreads take Josean with you! You to losers only no one thing and that is to complain! Get of your ass shut up and doing something in
Written by: TFISKE , 25 Jan 2009 4:42 PM
From: Canada, Alberta
start doing something in 2009! Listen to your President it starts with you!
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Judging content of above comments, one would be inclined to think that some posters definitely lean communist. Seems to me they would like to emulate Cuba [failed state!!!], where there aren't supposed class differences [yeah, right!]. They have great education, but lack of everything else and, given chance, they would all like nothing more than migrating to capitalistic USA.
I am proud to have Cap Cana and other similar projects.....they put DR on world map! They will attract rich foreigners that will bring additional private sector economic investment to the country and foster progress. They will also keep rich Dominicans and their investments close to home. More importantly, beside drug path, rich way of life will create great incentive for class mobility at all levels.
Written by: antonioj, 25 Jan 2009 5:48 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: TFISKE, 25 Jan 2009 4:42 PM
From: Canada
start doing something in 2009! Listen to your President it starts with you!
"
Tfiske why did you come back Mr Capitalist himself. I am sure you can not stand countries like: Canada,switzerland, belgium, sweeden that spread the wealth around. I see the continual unrelated Haitian obsession in your comment that seem to affect some pea brain posters, may I politely ask you why?
Once fairness, equity and greed is questioned you are branded a communist, the republicans said Obama is a communist too , we all know the end of the story.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
My fellow Canadians ask not what Cap Cana can do for you ask what you can do for Cap Cana.....Tonyj only 5 more months of winter to go and then Mud for two months one week of summer and then back to the snow shovels and ice scrapers ....Go Leafs
Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 6:01 PM
From: United States
It appears to me that all the CAP CACA defenders are worried about their deposits! If I were you guys I would also be very worried!
Written by: Eriliza, 25 Jan 2009 7:03 PM
From: United States, Boston, MA
I am the least worried, josean. Want to know why? Because it will benefit the Dominican economy over the years to come....
Written by: generoso, 25 Jan 2009 7:14 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Eriliza
Good for you!, do not let the dooms day prophets spoil your most positive outlook.
josean means well, but he just doesn't like anything to do with the present government, even though Cap Cana is a private venture.
The principals in this dubious enterprise are only out to make a quick buck and then split. Sort of similar to the snake oil salesmen like Donald Trump and cohorts.
Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 7:17 PM
From: United States
As Margo Channing said,
"Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride."
Written by: Jander, 25 Jan 2009 9:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Someone who knows what time it is.
Written by: Trujillo, 25 Jan 2009 3:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
As all of you can clearly see, progress and success really pisses off our socialist friends. I bet they don't know that there's another big project planned for Samana by the same people responsible for Cap Cana. That project will start after Cap Cana is finished, and I've heard it's going to be even bigger than Cap Cana.
This is a huge project, and another region of the country that will benefit from the investments.
There is still some cheap property in the hills, but forget beachfront.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
There are parts of Cap Cana which are beautiful and very well done. Though certainly not for all Dominicans, there are many who do spend time there. More so, Europeans and South Americans are seen frequently with fewer Americans going there at this point. Unfortunately, the timing is poor and though it is a planned project with a 10 year goal of completion, still the current situation of the world economy is not in its favor. It is quite amazing to see that such a resort (The Sanctuary, for example) can exist in the DR. This is a very well done hotel and one not frequently seen in this Country. The marina area with its restaurants and condos is also a well planned and built segment of the overall project. It is certainly expensive and will be a showcase for the Country in the future. I am pleased and surprised to see a project like this in this Country. No, it is not for everyone but in most other Countries, it is the same. Whether it is the US/Europe or South America, to name only thr
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
continued. /three, not everyone is able to access everything. The DR needs many things and it is good to have something of this level functioning even at its infancy.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
It was Bette Davis who said it......................Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 7:17 PM
From: United States
As Margo Channing said,
"Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride."
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Cab,
Finally, a progressive Dominican who is optimistic about foreign investment in DR, proud of the facilities it created and realistic about its socioeconomic impact.
Some people fail to see the trickle down economic impact this facility has on local economy. Obviously, locals are employed as clerks, gardeners, waiters, lifeguards,........cooks, chamber maids, electricians, plumbers, etc. There is also the deeper impact on farmers who provide produce, meats and fruits; also, fishermen who supply fresh sea food. We could go on and on. What would these people do if this resort wasn't there? These people in turn circulate money outside the resort, thereby spreading the wealth and contributing to a functional economy. What a great concept!
We could whine that common Dominicans don't have access to the facility but, who cares? it wasn't built for them anyway. They don't have access to the national palace, either, and I don't see anybody here complaining about it.
Written by: Jander, 25 Jan 2009 10:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Jander,
Thanks for posting pictures.
Look, I wasn't in favor of this project. However, it is built now and it is very beautiful. Hopefully, it will facilitate life for Dominicans and make them proud. It will most likely be a tremendous improvement over dreaded conchos, so let's give it a chance now.
Contrary to all "AI" resorts built for foreigners, this project was built for Dominicans and appropriately so. I am surprised that, generally, most forum posters opposing foreign investment in "AI" resorts also oppose this project. On one hand, they say "AI's" are not good because they don't benefit Dominicans; on the other hand, metro benefits everyday working Dominicans but they don't support it, either, so go figure!
Josean is going to be upset with these pictures, that's for sure.
Written by: josean, 25 Jan 2009 11:21 PM
From: United States
I think these pictures are more impressive!
"They are beautiful in mind, body and soul in spite of facing almost unbearable poverty and devestatingly difficult circumstances."
http://theothertom.smugmug.com/gallery/1352400_VzfwG#130307057_BKHUXThey represent the Victims of the psychotic spending of $750,000,000 dollars on the METROMADNESS!
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Josean,
Yes, this is a costly extravaganza. I never liked the idea but, again, it is here now and it isn't like we could take it down and recover the money. Money is spent and not coming back. In grand scheme of things, this deal was superior to that of BankInter... . we still got screwed but got a tangible asset that, if proven not to work, could still have some scrap value. Anticipating your natural response, I should expect you to retort that metro cost would make BankInter loss seem like lunch money; worse thing is that you could be right.
Written by: josean, 26 Jan 2009 1:05 AM
From: United States
I am aware that its built and we cannot turn back. But maybe we can delay, and scrutinize so the ripoff on the next unfortunate line built is not as monstrous.
If we just lay back and take it, without speaking out on how ilconceived and irrational this madness was they will feel empowered for. another big scam at the expense of the real priorities of the country; EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE, HOUSING, and RELIABLE ELECTRICAL SERVICE!
!Esto fue una de las faltas de respeto mas grande que se a cometido en contra del pueblo Dominicano, por estos FRESCOS del PLD!
Written by: Escott, 26 Jan 2009 11:47 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
Hey Negro Bachata, what in the world does private business ahve to do with it?
I think Joesan is right btw.
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Escott,
Don't get me wrong.....The tourist industry should continue to be developed; there should always be efforts to bring tourists, foreign dollars, and foreign investment to the DR. This is a staple of the Caribe economy. But you can't cater solely to the tourist industry. For any country to progress there must be an investment in the people of that land as well. In my opinion that starts with education. When a large portion of a population is illiterate or can barely read, and the government makes no genuine efforts to rectify the situation, this is criminal. A government must see to its people. This is an imperative. You make this investment in your people and it will pay dividends and create true opportunities for the upward mobility that glomarexplorer speaks to. Develop the tourist industry, yes. But also make investments in your own people. I mean....am I wrong? Does anyone believe that Dominicans don't deserve a quality education?
Written by: josean, 26 Jan 2009 1:38 PM
From: United States
NegroDeLaBachata,
I agree 1000% !
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Bachatero,
I am of the opinion that quality education is best achieved via private schools, where parents can play active role and place the children in the best schools, premised on results. I see a great deal of money being wasted in the US on education, in a system that mimics Dominican politcs in terms of ingrained corruption and cronysm. I live near an upstate NY city that invests $950,000,000.00 in local school district and the product can neither read or write intelligently at >5th level. Teachers generally earn >$60k and are basically untouchable, no matter how inept they might be.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Bachatero,
Access to quality education may be an inaliable right; I have no problems with that. I would welcome a voucher system for underprivileged children to give them equal access to quality education. It could possibly be the wises move/investment for a country like DR, where education and related opportunities may be only honorable vehicle out of poverty and into the highway of progress.
Written by: josean, 26 Jan 2009 2:02 PM
From: United States
The myth of private versus public in a nut shell:
1. Private schools are allowed to discriminate i.e. will not accept kids with behavioral problems or can expel those who later develop them.
2. Private schools rarely if ever accept special needs students.
3. Class size, they can close enrollment arbitrarily.
Essentially they cherry pick the cream of the crop, so obviously their end performance may appear to be better than the public schools, who must accept all children warts and all!
The problem is more complex than just issuing vouchers, although vouchers could be part of a broader comprehensive fix!
Written by: generoso, 26 Jan 2009 2:11 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
The USA has had for years a discriminatory immigration practice to attract the best professionals to the US draining those countries of their human capital reserves.
It is a lot better and cheaper to lure foreign professionals to emigrate to the US than provide the education system to form them.
There a hundreds of Dominican doctors and dentists, nurses, engineers, you name it working in the US after having their schooling and training paid for partly by the Dominican state.
This has caused a drain on human capital resources in the DR to the US by this selective and discriminatory
immigration policy that attracts only the best and/or the potentially wealthiest.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Josean,
Competition drives today's world, and there is very little room left for mediocrity; that extends not only to manufacturing, but also to medicine, engineering and, yes, education. The public school system here in US is largely appalling, especially because it can not effectively impose discipline or promote elitism, which is why people like myself have chosen to send our children to private schools. It has clearly paid off for me, as my son graduates 1May09 top in his class at a prestigious Boston university.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
It is a conspiracy by the Empire to enslave us all
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
" Ming the Merciless" has spoken from the planet Mongo
Written by: Eriliza, 26 Jan 2009 3:33 PM
From: United States, Boston, MA
Oh stop the whining you all!
Written by: josean, 26 Jan 2009 4:44 PM
From: United States
"or promote elitism"
I am sorry GE, but that is precisely why we have public education in democratic society, not promote elitism but rather pluralism. In fact you might have heard of a little event we had 233 years ago called the American Revolution, precisely to eliminate elitism and create a pluralistic society, Does “We hold the truths to be self evident that all men (and women) are created equal”, ring a bell.
PS
Eriliza,
You may want to watch Jerry Springer, because if you hang around here you might learn something. Just a thought!
From: United States
@josean denying elitism is like denying the sky is blue. The founders of US had no such intent, look at the original constitutions. Pluralism and elitism are not mutually exclusive ideas. The best should rise to the top in each field, but should never forget their responsibilities to everyone who helped get them there and even to those who didn't.
@glomar the notion of a voucher system in DR is totally out of touch with reality. This is applying an interesting idea for troubled US systems out of context. josean is correct that the government is responsible for a public school system that can instill basics.
@NegroDeLaBachata good comments!
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Josean,
No problem with plurality. While we are all clearly created equal, we are not all equal, as we have different capacities for understanding and creating. Those with greatest capacity need to be nutured and challenged and placed in an environment that fosters expansion of their abilities to the utmost. Instead, we hold them hostage and force them to gravitate to the inevitable level of mediocrity, where dissatisfaction and dispair prevail and ultimately culminate in failure. For me, that is what that pervasive and so-called plural and equal educational system has created; in a way, it is the same situation as your opinion of the "metro": well-intentioned but also wastefull.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Manhattan,
I agree with some of your points but clearly disagree with others. Doesn't the gov't in DR pay for the public education system? Why couldn't they take that money instead and use it more effectively to foster academic competition based on private school through vouchers? I would suggest some minimal regulation relating to curriculum, premised on remaining competitive with the top ten programs in the world, or something lesser? What would be so impossible about that? Please cite three good reasons?
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Josean,
We have MIT, Harvard, Cal Tech, Princeton and Yale for student elite of all races and creed, those who by natural ability, perseverance and hard work earned admission to these marvelous institutions of higher learning. I hope they will continue to have strictest academic requirements for admission and relegate mediocrity to other plural institutions. This is not to imply that a quality education couldn't be attained anywhere else, as I myself did not attend any of these schools [probably wasn't good enough; however, good enough to gain an appointment to the United States Naval Academy].
Written by: josean, 26 Jan 2009 6:50 PM
From: United States
"I hope they will continue to have strictest academic requirements for admission and relegate mediocrity to other plural institutions."
So you think that legacy has no merit, because many of the "bright children of the elite" like George W. would have never gotten in otherwise!
From: United States
glomar the voucher idea is interesting in the US context because it sets up an alternative to public schools for competition...however it is based on the premise that the public systems DO work at least for those who have the self-motivation to learn, and as such these schools will end up being incentivized to perform by the new alternatives. I won't bother to list the kind of abuses we would see in DR around such a system. Even the most deprived students of the worst US public system can imagine the crooked outcomes possible given the state of leadership in DR. Besides if the critics on DT.com are right there is no money being spent on education in DR as is, so imagine splitting the tiny pot and letting the poor, barely literate targets of the politicos choose schools.
Written by: antonioj, 26 Jan 2009 8:26 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: josean, 26 Jan 2009 6:50 PM
From: United States
So you think that legacy has no merit, because many of the "bright children of the elite" like George W. would have never gotten in otherwise!
"heck how did he get elected. Because of dad!! Being a legacy at Yale has its advantages -- When George Walker Bush was admitted to Yale in 1964, it was through an affirmative action program for children of alumni - called a 'legacy’ system. Dad (1948) and Grand daddy (1917) where Yalies, and at that time being a child of an alumnus got you in.
Later, in 1973, trading as usual on his father's connections, George W. Bush entered Harvard for a two-year program -- His former Harvard Business School professor, Yoshi Tsurumi, recalls him not just as a terrible student but as spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar"
Written by: generoso, 26 Jan 2009 10:17 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
antonioj
George W. never struck me as very smart or cautious like his dad was, whom I had the pleasure to meet in one momentous occasion. What you describe of his passing through Harvard seems
very likely to be the truth.
This moron we were unlucky enough to put up with for 8 years of misery and improvised leadership,
did not even listen to his wise dad who advised him not to get involved in nation building in Iraq or any of his other wise recommendations, up to the point that he did not even have contact with dad
anymore.
Now when his sad term finalized maybe he finally realized that he was just a stooge for Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld that used him and manipulated him until the crash landing that started the nation's downward spiral with the Iraq invasion fiasco and the lost of his credibility and leadership with the lies used as an excuse to justify that invasion.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Josean-continued,
He probably couldn't make it in on strength of his grades but got benefit of doubt. You don't think that could happen in the utopia you insinuate? There is no perfect system. I know that if you cheat or get something you do not deserve, then you can not stand the reflection in the mirror [Dominican president exempted]. I, for one, live by that motto and my children will hold me to it. I tell them basically two things: 1) don't do anything you will have to apologize to your children for; 2) don't do anything that when you look at the reflection in the mirror will make you turn your head away. I am also 100 % opposed to all tatoos.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Josean,
"So you think that legacy has no merit, because many of the "bright children of the elite" like George W. would have never gotten in otherwise!" You got me here, but show me a society where that wouldn't happen, whether it is poor on poor or affluent on affluent. It is just more noticeable when it is the dreaded rich, you know...the one that risk their money and create jobs and pay taxes-those bastards!
From: United States
glomarexlorer offers another peach of trickle down economics:
"I am proud to have Cap Cana and other similar projects.....they put DR on world map! They will attract rich foreigners that will bring additional private sector economic investment to the country and foster progress. They will also keep rich Dominicans and their investments close to home. More importantly, beside drug path, rich way of life will create great incentive for class mobility at all levels."
can glomar, who is a self confessed admirer of the king of trickle down, Ronald Reagan, tell us how his statement works? how does the presence of rich people bring about upward mobility? by the way, Glomar, do you realise that there were many rich Dominicans before Cap Cana was conceived? they did not seem to have brought about this mobility to which you allude. i am disillusioned when people believe these unsubstantiated contentions, such as those that suggest that birds get more food when horses get more hay.
From: United States
besides, glomar, who says that if dominicans, who are barely able to make ends meet, see rich foreigners flying around in helicopters, they will be "incentivised"? they have been seeing unequal wealth forever, and it has not changed anything. incentives like what?
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Dreads,
Please give me your manifesto of progress, utopia and the right thing to do in DR. Then give me a concrete example of where that model has worked and how it is being emulated by other societies, please!!!!!!!!! Let's see: Cuba?; Venezuela? Bolivia?; Nicaragua? USSR? At least China was smart and embraced many aspects of capitalism and immediately jumped into the 21st century.
Also, please tell me why it is the clear desire of almost every Dominican to come hte the system you so much malign: the USA and capitalism? If they opened the flood gates tomorrow, we could have about nine million new citizens!!
From: United States
you know why they would have nine million new citizens? because capitalism has not worked for them here. they are not going to america because it is capitalist; they go because they can more readily get a job there, which pays better than it does here. if they had supports systems, like they do in america, in Norway, they would head there too. and, when you make a critique of socialism, leave out Cuba, in the interest of intellectual honesty. had not America done its level best to sabotage the Cuban revolution, then i would have no objection of your assessment. countries like the DR, and other caribbean states, derive the bulk of their hard currency from remittances. Cuba does not enjoy that privelege, thanks to petulant american strictures. and, china does not apply the dog eat dog, winner take all, terminator style ,jungle capitalism of the USA, the kind that brought us the current crisis. more of the proceeds of the production cycle are distributed among the people.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
You don't think China has a crisis?
Our own was most likely precipitated by our voracious appetite to consume while exporting all of our manufacturing jobs to China, which essentially left us with no means to sustain that habit in perpetuity.
You are not really serious about your comments on China above, are you? competition is even more intense in China than in US...you should see what's going on in their auto industry!
On Cuba, OK, let's leave it out. But what about the USSR? And why did china abandon that utopian system called communism? Is it possible that it didn't work?
From: United States
competition may be fierce in china in terms of production; however, the government is still in charge, and the distribution of wealth is a critical aspect of the way in which their economy functions. it is similar to japan, in which a large part of profits goes to the state. and, forget Russia. that country was never ready for communism. traditionally, it has been so corrupt, it might as well be capitalist, anyway.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Dreads,
You do realize the break-neck growth rate of millionaires and billionaires in China, a fact that is incongruous with your comments above on distribution of wealth? Most Chinese workers are migrant workers living in squalor away from home for a year or more. They get to go home for a few weeks this time of year during lunar calendar festival. Their working conditions are tantamount to slavery.
Written by: josean, 27 Jan 2009 7:37 AM
From: United States
Written by: Manhattanite, 26 Jan 2009 6:01 PM
@josean denying elitism is like denying the sky is blue. The founders of US had no such intent, look at the original constitutions. Pluralism and elitism are not mutually exclusive ideas. The best should rise to the top in each field, but should never forget their responsibilities to everyone who helped get them there and even to those who didn't.
1. I have never denied elitism, that Is why I speak out against it becoming a dominant ideology.
2. I never attributed to the American revolutionaries that this was one of there primary intents, although I suspect some may have had stronger views than others on this question, particularly Thomas Paine.
However, we can not deny that although this might not have been the original intent, or even in their thinking, the outcome was a pluralistic society, although not a perfect one.
I am sure we are all familiar with the law of unintended consequences.
Continued:
Written by: josean, 27 Jan 2009 7:40 AM
From: United States
"The law of unintended consequences holds that whether or not what you do has the effect you intend, it will have consequences that you don't expect. Some unintended consequences can be very unpleasant."
I am sure that Lie-onel Fernadez and the rest of the corrupt DOUCHEBAGS in the PLD did imagine that the METRO would turn out to be such a FOLLY!
From: United States
glomarexplorer, this is getting tedious, trying to argue with you. you seem unable to grasp the difference between the american style rambo capitalism, and chinese capitalism. there are three basic styles of capitalism
american style, dog eat dog, winner take all
scandinavian style, where winner takes most, but the government takes a substantial amount
eastern style, where government takes most, such as japan and china
so, even though the production paradigms are the same, the distribution ideology differs. it is that simple.
Written by: jeb21, 27 Jan 2009 3:10 PM
From: United States
josean - you write like a failed project in a failed state.
Written by: josean, 27 Jan 2009 4:41 PM
From: United States
"josean - you write like a failed project in a failed state."
So why don't you enlighten us little purple one!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
always whining and complaining it never ends...always the victim of failure ...failure is as failure does
Written by: Username, 27 Jan 2009 5:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic
There is no doubt in my mind Cap Cana will succeed. Right now with the world economy where it is, many projects are in trouble, not just Cap Cana, but wait and see, those white beaches aren't going anywhere, and once the world economy bounces back, buying second homes and vacation condos will be back on.
Written by: josean, 27 Jan 2009 6:21 PM
From: United States
If all of you Bernie Made-Off sucker types believe so much in this great solid venture, organize CAP CACA parties in your homes and get your family and friends to join you in investing in this ride over Niagara Falls!
Some people do survive the fall not many but some do, who knows you maybe one of the lucky ones!
Written by: Username, 27 Jan 2009 6:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Bernie Madoff suckers? I wonder where do you keep your money, if you have any at all?
Written by: josean, 27 Jan 2009 6:59 PM
From: United States
"I wonder where do you keep your money, if you have any at all?'
Ah, wouldn't you like to know!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
the reason ? because they know you're a loser
Written by: jeb21, 28 Jan 2009 12:17 PM
From: United States
josean and dread???? both of you need to get off your asses and go visit Hawaii!! maybe you will get some true spirit and see how people coexist in a tourist type area. you 2 Hate DR so much (why?) maybe you would love the most wonderful place in the world -- maybe not - because you two sound dreadful - with all your hyperpoble - nothing of substance. People like you have caused wars with your bigotry and i am not interested in the history of wars (because i already am aware) dread that you will probably start citing. anyway for all else - try to be cognizant that these two (and actually they sound like same person) lack SUBSTANCE.
Written by: TFISKE , 28 Jan 2009 12:25 PM
From: Canada, Alberta
jeb21, nice
Hawaii is a special place that dreads would hate .
He would need to look on his globe! Dreads its not 2hrs from seattle!
You cannot drive your electric car to hawaii dreads..... look to the west on your globe!
Written by: jeb21, 28 Jan 2009 12:28 PM
From: United States
if dominicans started being more interested in education and reading (something unheard of by dominicans in us) and less in having more and more children maybe there is a future. but - nothing like that is happening. why is there no striving for success via education in the dr? all of your complaints josean about the system. what grade did you make it up to? Ph.D? you all call yourselves engineers. ha ha/ the newly arrived dominicans want 0 for their children - parents ignorant, illiterate uninterested. what about their children who consistently fail in school. you only have to look at their parents who think 0 of school and only see schools as a babysitting service for their children.
Written by: josean, 28 Jan 2009 1:52 PM
From: United States
jeb, Appears to be another of Sybil's personalities!
Written by: Username, 28 Jan 2009 1:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
That mentality comes for back home. How many lawyers you know in DR who are driving motochonchos? Many. In DR education is not seen as a way to progress in most families. Most parents would rather have their kid make it to Nueva Yok and get some dead-end job, but send home 100$ a month than get a PhD in DR. I have been living in DR long enough that sadly that mentality has even rubbed off on me. My wife was thinking about studying law and my thinking was "why waste your time?", which was wrong. (She' studying medicine now).
Written by: josean, 28 Jan 2009 1:56 PM
From: United States
(She' studying medicine now).
For your sake I hope she specializes in PSYCHIATRY!
Written by: jeb21, 28 Jan 2009 2:36 PM
From: United States
so josean (aka the revolutionary) you must be an unemployed nueva yorkan - si??? you need to get a grip and accept that you have a computer - si?
Written by: josean, 28 Jan 2009 2:41 PM
From: United States
jeb,
How are the little BROWN ONES?
Written by: jeb21, 28 Jan 2009 2:45 PM
From: United States
josean - i miss that one completely - BROWN ONES? Which ones - mine or yours?
Written by: josean, 28 Jan 2009 2:55 PM
From: United States
I could see you not well read, maybe another of your neo-Nazi friends can "splain" it to you when they get back from the cross burning!!
Written by: jeb21, 28 Jan 2009 2:59 PM
From: United States
josean - so typical of your type - ignorant -
Written by: josean, 28 Jan 2009 3:01 PM
From: United States
jeb,
I you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch!
Written by: Username, 28 Jan 2009 3:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Yes josean. BTW, how is your la gringa doing? Must make you feel like a real "big dog" living off of some old lady's social security checks. Ahhh, asi es, coño.
Written by: josean, 28 Jan 2009 7:20 PM
From: United States
Username,
Before your wife graduates you could consider shock therapy!
From: United States
it takes a while to figure some folks out, but jeb21 is as transparent as it gets. simple minded and shallow, but self important enough to issue a screed about dominican society. the bums do not want to learn anything, he offers, just to breed like rabbits. well, mr substance, maybe you need to understand some of the historical and sociopolitical dynamics extant in the dominican republic before you run off and make half cocked statements. firstly, education has never occupied the place in dominican culture that it has in other countries. until you can show me something that has been studied in the DNA of dominicans, which makes them resistant to education, then you have to resort to studying why the case is as it is. firstly, the principals of dictatorial leadership wanted the people to stay ignorant and uninformed, hence less inquisitive and recalcitrant. therefore, good schooling was reserved for the chosen few. secondly, because of the paternalistic dependency syndrome,
From: United States
people always were made to believe that the political fathers would take care of their needs, and therefore they did not develop an urgency for self realisation. why do you think that during the political silly season the political aspirants give chickens and roosters away? to remind the voters who it is that will take care of them, that is why. and , finally, because of the fact that the island is broken down into hard political areas, spending is geographically targeted, to achieve maximum efficiency. so, since leonel derives the bulk of his support from the urban areas, he builds the metro for his following. when the PRD is in power, the projects go to the rural areas. it is the producy of highly developed political clientelism. education is a slow process, which cannot be targetted to a special population segment, hence it gets little attention. if dominicans are inherently anti-education, as you purport, can you explain their academic successes in the USA?
Written by: josean, 28 Jan 2009 7:44 PM
From: United States
jeb,
Imagine how much you have to pay at the University for that dissertation. Thank dread for trying to "learn you" something boy!
From: United States
you see the irony, josean? here is a guy who is at great pains to allow that i have no intellectual substance; then he hoists himself by his own petard by making the simplistic, superficial remarks that he does. second generation dominicans in the USA are doing better in college than puerto ricans, yet puerto ricans, in their native land, have far more impressive indicators of scholastic achievement than dominicans in the DR. why is this, you ask? maybe jeb will suggest that something in the american water agrees with dominican brains in the USA, and suddenly expunges their congenital obduracy towards learning. suddenly, a light comes on, the fog clears, and they can now learn something, for a change. now that they can read the encyclopaedia, and surf the web, they have less spare time to breed like rabbits. spoken like a true man of substance.
From: United States
as to the subject of reproduction; jeb21 gives us his scholarly rebuke of the tendency among dominicans to have a large number of offspring. but, being a man of substance, he does not give us any figures, which we can compare with other racial and ethnic groups. maybe he should reserve his scolding for Hasidic Jews in the USA, who have an average of 7.9 children per household, as opposed to the american average of 2.1, which translated to a birth rate of 358 per thousand, compared to the national norm of 65 per thousand. but it always sounds better when you lash them darlin darkies, who only know how to get drunk, get laid, and get pregnant. ah, substance....
Written by: generoso, 29 Jan 2009 8:34 AM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
dread
Very clear and concise political analysis worth saving.
Careful, you are threading in uncharted waters just mentioning the untouchable subjects like "Hasidic Jews" , shelter yourself against the oncoming missile strike.
Written by: antonioj, 29 Jan 2009 10:21 AM
From: Canada, home safe
big up dread let's hope tfiske aka jeb1 will take time to read and digest that eloquent dissertation
thanks for educating me, and the forum.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Hasidic Jewish birth rate is a voting problem for Israel as they start to out number the seculars and demand more settlements .....who cares in the USA dread ....at least they are not out robbing Korean green grocers
From: United States
What the hell does Obama have to do with the topic at hand? Monotono-theists believe they know how to think, they know only how to regurgitate ideology and political talking points. If a person knows stats and figures he is a loser? Being empty hot air on a forum is preferable?
dread thanks for standing up against jeb's insults of Dominican educational capacity...however I want to probe your repeated assertions of the system being so flawed in DR. I know I'm absent so I concede I'm speaking from hearsay however I know I have reports in my fam of many aunts, cousins, friends who finished advanced education, engineering, and medical degrees in DR. Is the ed system really the prob or lack of opportunity for entrepreneurism?
Written by: jeb21, 29 Jan 2009 1:24 PM
From: United States
dread---rebuke for having large amounts of offspring? how like you to misconstrue, misinterpret and spread the wrong word. in the education system -- I see the product and I see the parents. the parents? do not see a purpose of schooling their children - only babysitting them. trying to convince these people to send their children to good schools, to ask them to inspire their children to encourage their children to ASPIRE
Written by: jeb21, 29 Jan 2009 1:33 PM
From: United States
dread---rebuke for having large amounts of offspring? how like you to misconstrue, misinterpret and spread the wrong word. in the education system -- I see the product and I see the parents. the parents? do not see a purpose of schooling their children - only babysitting them. we need to plead with mothers to let their children go "out of the neighborhood" to go to a better school in which to learn. parents do not read, write or speak OR want to. trying to convince these parents to send their children to proper good schools, pleading with them to inspire their children to encourage their children to ASPIRE , to read, to write, fails - pity so many of these children who come home to nothing at all. students and mothers at 13 and have their second at 15 - they say they have no use for schools nor do their mothers (fathers usually absent). they come back to school with their infants. so dread - what the hell do you know? stop spreading the wrong word! i could go on and on but w
Written by: generoso, 29 Jan 2009 1:58 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
TFISKE
You are not even close to sparring in an even terrain against dreadlocks.
You throw punches below the belt and resort to offensive name calling because that is the only way you know to rebuke the intelligent posts directed at you.
Give it up and don't ridicule and humiliate yourself in public any more.
Written by: antonioj, 29 Jan 2009 6:37 PM
From: Canada, home safe
what a shame, just a shame
From: United States
jeb, quit while you are behind. as a wise man once said "when you are in a hole, stop digging"
From: United States
if you had taken the time to read my posting, jeb21, instead of just trying to be a windbag, you would understand how the people you describe got to where they are. there are underlying dynamics, not the least of which is history, which dictate sociological outcomes. dominicans, IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, do not fare well in education statistics. the unesco results usually are disappointing, relative to the world , in general. but that is not so of second generation dominicans, or dominicans who left the country when they were three years old. those who grow up in the USA have scholastic showings that are on par with most every immigrant group from the western hemisphere. i am not a guy who is impressed by anecdotes. i like facts and figures. the same dominican, who would probably have been left behind educationally in the dr, becomes a stellar performer in a different setting. well, his DNA did not change when he passed through customs, so there has to be an environmental stimulus
From: United States
which allows him to do as well as he does. and i would like you to show me some education statistics which prove that second generation irish and italians did better scholastically than second generation dominicans. until you can do that, and give me sociological reasons why, then i will continue to think of you as you think of me; you have no substance.
From: United States
Manhattanite, my humble assessments of the DR education system is that it leaves a lot to be desired. but that does not speak to the fact that some people are inherently brilliant , but are held back by the rubrics i outlined before. yes, there is a lack of entrepreneural opportunity. there is no venture capital statutory body which will lend young people the funds to start a business, without full, collateralisation. so if a guy is going to start a business which is capital intensive, he stands a better chance of getting help than a guy who wants to start something like an online business. the bank can hold on to the sunk cost assets in one case, but has nothing tangible in the other. nextly, there is no real training for entrepreneurship, so guys open businesses by the seat of their pants, with no feasibility studies. the ventures last 2 months, because they cannot even write a coherent business plan. but, given the correct tools, success is just around the corner!!!
From: United States
hey, jeb21, do you have any of the stats and data i asked you for, so we can settle this critique of dominicans once and for all? it burns my ass up when guys sit at their dinner tables and lash out at people from this beleagured land, asserting that they are some sort of backward human species, without showing me comparative stats on other groups. dominicans in new york have a 20.9 percent high school dropout rate; italian americans 20.2. yet you never hear the jeb21 types ranting about the italian distaste for learning. so, jeb, unless you are just the skunk who crashed the party, and having stunk up the joint, have made your exit, stay with us awhile. let us clear the air that you contaminated. let us deal with these dominican subjects that you know so much about. it should be quite easy for you to handle me, because, in your words, i do not know anything. so, man up, and lets do this. your credibility is at stake if you skulk off, tail between your legs.
Written by: jeb21, 30 Jan 2009 8:49 AM
From: United States
bottom line dread - this forum is not about the italians! - but it is obvious that you just live to argue for argument sake. you change the subject and the tenor of the tone to suit your ways. Yours' is a closed mind .
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
colour me surprised ....dread and Psyscophant will now counter...{.that is a psychotic sycophant ]
From: United States
au contraire, jeb. a closed mind is one that cannot analyse with relativity. first, in order to make statement regarding a phenomenon, it has to be measured against that which is normative for the group as a whole, and then the idea of sub groups has to be examined. so, if the dropout rate among all students is 10%, and the dominican percentage is 20%, we can say that the dr percentage is high, relative to the average. but then, we have to look at subgroups, and see their percentiles. maybe the dr is not as bad as you make it out to be, when far more established , stable groups exhibit comparative data. nobody said the forum was about italians; they were included in the subject matter for illustrative purposes. the fact that you refuse to understand that point shows that yours is the mind that is closed. probably, you are just a closet (or outed) racist, who gets his jollies beating up on dominicans. the other groups i mentioned are too powerful for you, so you take the line of
From: United States
least resistance, and trash the dominicans. i know your type; the guys who spew anecdotes about dominican girls who come to school with kids in strollers. that is not some secret knowledge. i have seen it myself. you are not the only guy who is privy to sociological phenomena in the USA. but, are there other groups which exhibit the same issue, and to what degree? at what point does the dr experience represent aberrant behavior. ? i have not seen one figure or statistic from you, only your opinion. sorry, dude; i do not have the luxury of anecdotal, dinnertime analysis. i lke numbers, and correlation.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Mr Data and Statistics and Defender of the Workingman has spoken ......{we now await the Psyscophant]
From: United States
yes, jeb, for a guy who made his entrance with such robust denunciation of my substance, you surely can do better than this. a man of your intellectual wherewithal can surely ventilate the subjects with more alacrity and aplomb. a little two sentence accusatory rant is not good enough. put on your man pants and lets boogie. show me where , first of all, dominicans are losing the academic battle in the USA, something you so robustly asserted. then we will talk childbirth numbers. wikipedia awaits you, with bated breath!!
From: United States
GC, as Al Pacino said , in The Scent of a Woman "i am just getting warmed up".
Written by: generoso, 30 Jan 2009 9:38 AM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Going back to the subject in the headline and my on hypothesis regarding investing in high price projects such as Cap Cana:
1. Certain types of tourism investment will stand to a halt because of inability to finance new construction.
2. Our tourists denominated "mass tourism" are not limited by high income visitors that are only
5% of the total.
3. It is expected by experts for total tourism flow in the caribbean not to drop below 5% of last
years statistics, with the exception of Cuba because of the low quality of their services will suffer a bigger drop in total visitors.
4. I do not agree on the rosy prospects for sales of high price real estate. This era is over for the foreseeable future.
5. Efforts should be made to increase the present options surrounding the all inclusive enclaves, as far as providing cultural activities,
Increase night life, gastronomy, sports tourism, and ecological tourism. Instead of having visitors after 5PM bored with nothing to do.
Written by: generoso, 30 Jan 2009 9:43 AM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
And last but not least marketing efforts, a great source of corruption due to the accessibility to high commissions since advertising expense can not be properly justified, should be focused exclusively
in fundamental markets like US and Canada. Besides concentrating in the main European countries
like Spain, France, Germany, England, Italy and Russia. And then in South America, Brazil and Mexico.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
genoroso 5% to 10 % was my educated guess 2 months ago when the wheels first came off....I certainly hope that figure would be correct ...but I have heard other negative reports ...so I have reverted to my rosary and other prayers ....You are absolutely correct about the perceived quality of Cubas resorts they are Cheesy an will suffer even more unless Nutty Hugo starts sending Venezuelans There en mas at his expense
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nay·say·er [ náy sày ?r ] (plural nay·say·ers)
noun
Definition:
objector: somebody who speaks against something, especially somebody who habitually expresses contrary opinions
Just like the Metro is real.
Here is an example.
You borrow someone money based on their word because you trust them.
You lend money to someone who puts up a gurantee of eqal or more value.
This nothing close to your beloved 'Buzz words". PONZI SCHEME!
By the way Rudolf Guliani was quoted saying "naysaying' is psychatric condition" I think he was right..
This week headline in a magazine "Dominican Republic # 1 destination in the Caribbean"!!!!!!!!!
Voted by people that like Dominican Republic a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Josean your PHD in down sindrome is amazing and mesmerizing!!!!
Now there is a role model for you; Rudy GOONIANI married his cousin, cheated on his wife, and turned the NYPD over to the mob via Bernie Kerik!
And let us not forget the BRILLIANT Presidential Campaign he ran for the Republican nomination!
Slow down your typing Rubi, its "Downs Syndrome!"
Thank you!
The east has nothing to do with the rest of the country, it is like some big Disneyland designed to attract upscale tourism and rich Dominicans. A country within the country. Apartheid revisited.
It created a market for Haitian construction workers, Dominican cheap labour, and rich Dominican companies that supply the projects. But it certainly does nothing for the Juan Perezes of this world in terms of sharing wealth.
On ocassion it seems to me, minority opinions have proven to be correct!
unpalatable guests.
It is done world over and I don't consider this practice discriminatory. It is done by society in many different scales, to protect their neighborhoods against criminal elements and undesirables.
I remember Boca Chica when I was a child and at that time it was the pinnacle of luxury resorts in the island and only for the very wealthy and influential. Look at Boca Chica now, it is a cesspool of
filth and undesirable elements including same sex street hustlers, and rampant drug trade.
Sosua had a similar story and only the rich families from Puerto Plata and Santiago had homes there.
are in Boca Chica. On the other hand the protected enclaves like Punta Cana, Casa de Campo, Cap Cana and others thrive and prosper due to their exclusivist policies.
I lived in all those places I mentioned so I can attest to that as an eye witness, this not hearsay talking.
Besides the pure moralist point of view the economic values of the properties in the places that do have the gate guards and restricted entry, has been preserved. Unlike Boca Chica and Sosua where the values have dropped as conservative investors look elsewhere for their future property appreciation and stability.
From: United States
Josean your PHD in "down sindrome" is amazing and mesmerizing!!!!
Slow down your typing Rubi, its "Downs Syndrome!"
"
Joe you not off the mark on this one, you are seeing long term, politicians only look at short term gratification they need to be re-elected every 4 years.
By the way wacko Rubi is a butt of a joke, he failed at plagiarizing or typing, just leave HER alone.
Nothing will change with Josean and Dreads ...sad sad unhappy dudes!
They DR is not perfect but I ask you what is these days?
Cap Cana is going to survive just like Citi Bank and GM
What will Cap Cana do for the DR? Think about it for once and stop whining it will put the DR on the map for years to come. Just like the new cruise ship terminal in Santo Domingo.
Now lets get the roads and bridges built in the DR. Outside investment will slow big time now with home prices being so cheap in the USA.
Dreads you say your a smart guy (MR big time NY man) buy a couple of cheap homes in the USA now! Rent them for a few yrs and flip them and take the money and help all of your friends in your barrio. Or maybe send it back to your family in haiti.
Dreads take Josean with you! You to losers only no one thing and that is to complain! Get of your ass shut up and doing something in
I am proud to have Cap Cana and other similar projects.....they put DR on world map! They will attract rich foreigners that will bring additional private sector economic investment to the country and foster progress. They will also keep rich Dominicans and their investments close to home. More importantly, beside drug path, rich way of life will create great incentive for class mobility at all levels.
From: Canada
start doing something in 2009! Listen to your President it starts with you!
"
Tfiske why did you come back Mr Capitalist himself. I am sure you can not stand countries like: Canada,switzerland, belgium, sweeden that spread the wealth around. I see the continual unrelated Haitian obsession in your comment that seem to affect some pea brain posters, may I politely ask you why?
Once fairness, equity and greed is questioned you are branded a communist, the republicans said Obama is a communist too , we all know the end of the story.
Good for you!, do not let the dooms day prophets spoil your most positive outlook.
josean means well, but he just doesn't like anything to do with the present government, even though Cap Cana is a private venture.
The principals in this dubious enterprise are only out to make a quick buck and then split. Sort of similar to the snake oil salesmen like Donald Trump and cohorts.
"Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride."
Written by: Trujillo, 25 Jan 2009 3:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
As all of you can clearly see, progress and success really pisses off our socialist friends. I bet they don't know that there's another big project planned for Samana by the same people responsible for Cap Cana. That project will start after Cap Cana is finished, and I've heard it's going to be even bigger than Cap Cana.
This is a huge project, and another region of the country that will benefit from the investments.
There is still some cheap property in the hills, but forget beachfront.
From: United States
As Margo Channing said,
"Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride."
Finally, a progressive Dominican who is optimistic about foreign investment in DR, proud of the facilities it created and realistic about its socioeconomic impact.
Some people fail to see the trickle down economic impact this facility has on local economy. Obviously, locals are employed as clerks, gardeners, waiters, lifeguards,........cooks, chamber maids, electricians, plumbers, etc. There is also the deeper impact on farmers who provide produce, meats and fruits; also, fishermen who supply fresh sea food. We could go on and on. What would these people do if this resort wasn't there? These people in turn circulate money outside the resort, thereby spreading the wealth and contributing to a functional economy. What a great concept!
We could whine that common Dominicans don't have access to the facility but, who cares? it wasn't built for them anyway. They don't have access to the national palace, either, and I don't see anybody here complaining about it.
http://flickr.com/photos/8143310@N07/
Thanks for posting pictures.
Look, I wasn't in favor of this project. However, it is built now and it is very beautiful. Hopefully, it will facilitate life for Dominicans and make them proud. It will most likely be a tremendous improvement over dreaded conchos, so let's give it a chance now.
Contrary to all "AI" resorts built for foreigners, this project was built for Dominicans and appropriately so. I am surprised that, generally, most forum posters opposing foreign investment in "AI" resorts also oppose this project. On one hand, they say "AI's" are not good because they don't benefit Dominicans; on the other hand, metro benefits everyday working Dominicans but they don't support it, either, so go figure!
Josean is going to be upset with these pictures, that's for sure.
"They are beautiful in mind, body and soul in spite of facing almost unbearable poverty and devestatingly difficult circumstances."
http://theothertom.smugmug.com/gallery/1352400_VzfwG#130307057_BKHUX
They represent the Victims of the psychotic spending of $750,000,000 dollars on the METROMADNESS!
Yes, this is a costly extravaganza. I never liked the idea but, again, it is here now and it isn't like we could take it down and recover the money. Money is spent and not coming back. In grand scheme of things, this deal was superior to that of BankInter... . we still got screwed but got a tangible asset that, if proven not to work, could still have some scrap value. Anticipating your natural response, I should expect you to retort that metro cost would make BankInter loss seem like lunch money; worse thing is that you could be right.
If we just lay back and take it, without speaking out on how ilconceived and irrational this madness was they will feel empowered for. another big scam at the expense of the real priorities of the country; EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE, HOUSING, and RELIABLE ELECTRICAL SERVICE!
!Esto fue una de las faltas de respeto mas grande que se a cometido en contra del pueblo Dominicano, por estos FRESCOS del PLD!
I think Joesan is right btw.
Don't get me wrong.....The tourist industry should continue to be developed; there should always be efforts to bring tourists, foreign dollars, and foreign investment to the DR. This is a staple of the Caribe economy. But you can't cater solely to the tourist industry. For any country to progress there must be an investment in the people of that land as well. In my opinion that starts with education. When a large portion of a population is illiterate or can barely read, and the government makes no genuine efforts to rectify the situation, this is criminal. A government must see to its people. This is an imperative. You make this investment in your people and it will pay dividends and create true opportunities for the upward mobility that glomarexplorer speaks to. Develop the tourist industry, yes. But also make investments in your own people. I mean....am I wrong? Does anyone believe that Dominicans don't deserve a quality education?
I agree 1000% !
I am of the opinion that quality education is best achieved via private schools, where parents can play active role and place the children in the best schools, premised on results. I see a great deal of money being wasted in the US on education, in a system that mimics Dominican politcs in terms of ingrained corruption and cronysm. I live near an upstate NY city that invests $950,000,000.00 in local school district and the product can neither read or write intelligently at >5th level. Teachers generally earn >$60k and are basically untouchable, no matter how inept they might be.
Access to quality education may be an inaliable right; I have no problems with that. I would welcome a voucher system for underprivileged children to give them equal access to quality education. It could possibly be the wises move/investment for a country like DR, where education and related opportunities may be only honorable vehicle out of poverty and into the highway of progress.
1. Private schools are allowed to discriminate i.e. will not accept kids with behavioral problems or can expel those who later develop them.
2. Private schools rarely if ever accept special needs students.
3. Class size, they can close enrollment arbitrarily.
Essentially they cherry pick the cream of the crop, so obviously their end performance may appear to be better than the public schools, who must accept all children warts and all!
The problem is more complex than just issuing vouchers, although vouchers could be part of a broader comprehensive fix!
It is a lot better and cheaper to lure foreign professionals to emigrate to the US than provide the education system to form them.
There a hundreds of Dominican doctors and dentists, nurses, engineers, you name it working in the US after having their schooling and training paid for partly by the Dominican state.
This has caused a drain on human capital resources in the DR to the US by this selective and discriminatory
immigration policy that attracts only the best and/or the potentially wealthiest.
Competition drives today's world, and there is very little room left for mediocrity; that extends not only to manufacturing, but also to medicine, engineering and, yes, education. The public school system here in US is largely appalling, especially because it can not effectively impose discipline or promote elitism, which is why people like myself have chosen to send our children to private schools. It has clearly paid off for me, as my son graduates 1May09 top in his class at a prestigious Boston university.
I am sorry GE, but that is precisely why we have public education in democratic society, not promote elitism but rather pluralism. In fact you might have heard of a little event we had 233 years ago called the American Revolution, precisely to eliminate elitism and create a pluralistic society, Does “We hold the truths to be self evident that all men (and women) are created equal”, ring a bell.
PS
Eriliza,
You may want to watch Jerry Springer, because if you hang around here you might learn something. Just a thought!
@glomar the notion of a voucher system in DR is totally out of touch with reality. This is applying an interesting idea for troubled US systems out of context. josean is correct that the government is responsible for a public school system that can instill basics.
@NegroDeLaBachata good comments!
No problem with plurality. While we are all clearly created equal, we are not all equal, as we have different capacities for understanding and creating. Those with greatest capacity need to be nutured and challenged and placed in an environment that fosters expansion of their abilities to the utmost. Instead, we hold them hostage and force them to gravitate to the inevitable level of mediocrity, where dissatisfaction and dispair prevail and ultimately culminate in failure. For me, that is what that pervasive and so-called plural and equal educational system has created; in a way, it is the same situation as your opinion of the "metro": well-intentioned but also wastefull.
I agree with some of your points but clearly disagree with others. Doesn't the gov't in DR pay for the public education system? Why couldn't they take that money instead and use it more effectively to foster academic competition based on private school through vouchers? I would suggest some minimal regulation relating to curriculum, premised on remaining competitive with the top ten programs in the world, or something lesser? What would be so impossible about that? Please cite three good reasons?
We have MIT, Harvard, Cal Tech, Princeton and Yale for student elite of all races and creed, those who by natural ability, perseverance and hard work earned admission to these marvelous institutions of higher learning. I hope they will continue to have strictest academic requirements for admission and relegate mediocrity to other plural institutions. This is not to imply that a quality education couldn't be attained anywhere else, as I myself did not attend any of these schools [probably wasn't good enough; however, good enough to gain an appointment to the United States Naval Academy].
So you think that legacy has no merit, because many of the "bright children of the elite" like George W. would have never gotten in otherwise!
From: United States
So you think that legacy has no merit, because many of the "bright children of the elite" like George W. would have never gotten in otherwise!
"heck how did he get elected. Because of dad!! Being a legacy at Yale has its advantages -- When George Walker Bush was admitted to Yale in 1964, it was through an affirmative action program for children of alumni - called a 'legacy’ system. Dad (1948) and Grand daddy (1917) where Yalies, and at that time being a child of an alumnus got you in.
Later, in 1973, trading as usual on his father's connections, George W. Bush entered Harvard for a two-year program -- His former Harvard Business School professor, Yoshi Tsurumi, recalls him not just as a terrible student but as spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar"
George W. never struck me as very smart or cautious like his dad was, whom I had the pleasure to meet in one momentous occasion. What you describe of his passing through Harvard seems
very likely to be the truth.
This moron we were unlucky enough to put up with for 8 years of misery and improvised leadership,
did not even listen to his wise dad who advised him not to get involved in nation building in Iraq or any of his other wise recommendations, up to the point that he did not even have contact with dad
anymore.
Now when his sad term finalized maybe he finally realized that he was just a stooge for Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld that used him and manipulated him until the crash landing that started the nation's downward spiral with the Iraq invasion fiasco and the lost of his credibility and leadership with the lies used as an excuse to justify that invasion.
He probably couldn't make it in on strength of his grades but got benefit of doubt. You don't think that could happen in the utopia you insinuate? There is no perfect system. I know that if you cheat or get something you do not deserve, then you can not stand the reflection in the mirror [Dominican president exempted]. I, for one, live by that motto and my children will hold me to it. I tell them basically two things: 1) don't do anything you will have to apologize to your children for; 2) don't do anything that when you look at the reflection in the mirror will make you turn your head away. I am also 100 % opposed to all tatoos.
"So you think that legacy has no merit, because many of the "bright children of the elite" like George W. would have never gotten in otherwise!" You got me here, but show me a society where that wouldn't happen, whether it is poor on poor or affluent on affluent. It is just more noticeable when it is the dreaded rich, you know...the one that risk their money and create jobs and pay taxes-those bastards!
"I am proud to have Cap Cana and other similar projects.....they put DR on world map! They will attract rich foreigners that will bring additional private sector economic investment to the country and foster progress. They will also keep rich Dominicans and their investments close to home. More importantly, beside drug path, rich way of life will create great incentive for class mobility at all levels."
can glomar, who is a self confessed admirer of the king of trickle down, Ronald Reagan, tell us how his statement works? how does the presence of rich people bring about upward mobility? by the way, Glomar, do you realise that there were many rich Dominicans before Cap Cana was conceived? they did not seem to have brought about this mobility to which you allude. i am disillusioned when people believe these unsubstantiated contentions, such as those that suggest that birds get more food when horses get more hay.
Please give me your manifesto of progress, utopia and the right thing to do in DR. Then give me a concrete example of where that model has worked and how it is being emulated by other societies, please!!!!!!!!! Let's see: Cuba?; Venezuela? Bolivia?; Nicaragua? USSR? At least China was smart and embraced many aspects of capitalism and immediately jumped into the 21st century.
Also, please tell me why it is the clear desire of almost every Dominican to come hte the system you so much malign: the USA and capitalism? If they opened the flood gates tomorrow, we could have about nine million new citizens!!
Our own was most likely precipitated by our voracious appetite to consume while exporting all of our manufacturing jobs to China, which essentially left us with no means to sustain that habit in perpetuity.
You are not really serious about your comments on China above, are you? competition is even more intense in China than in US...you should see what's going on in their auto industry!
On Cuba, OK, let's leave it out. But what about the USSR? And why did china abandon that utopian system called communism? Is it possible that it didn't work?
You do realize the break-neck growth rate of millionaires and billionaires in China, a fact that is incongruous with your comments above on distribution of wealth? Most Chinese workers are migrant workers living in squalor away from home for a year or more. They get to go home for a few weeks this time of year during lunar calendar festival. Their working conditions are tantamount to slavery.
@josean denying elitism is like denying the sky is blue. The founders of US had no such intent, look at the original constitutions. Pluralism and elitism are not mutually exclusive ideas. The best should rise to the top in each field, but should never forget their responsibilities to everyone who helped get them there and even to those who didn't.
1. I have never denied elitism, that Is why I speak out against it becoming a dominant ideology.
2. I never attributed to the American revolutionaries that this was one of there primary intents, although I suspect some may have had stronger views than others on this question, particularly Thomas Paine.
However, we can not deny that although this might not have been the original intent, or even in their thinking, the outcome was a pluralistic society, although not a perfect one.
I am sure we are all familiar with the law of unintended consequences.
Continued:
I am sure that Lie-onel Fernadez and the rest of the corrupt DOUCHEBAGS in the PLD did imagine that the METRO would turn out to be such a FOLLY!
american style, dog eat dog, winner take all
scandinavian style, where winner takes most, but the government takes a substantial amount
eastern style, where government takes most, such as japan and china
so, even though the production paradigms are the same, the distribution ideology differs. it is that simple.
So why don't you enlighten us little purple one!
Some people do survive the fall not many but some do, who knows you maybe one of the lucky ones!
Ah, wouldn't you like to know!
Hawaii is a special place that dreads would hate .
He would need to look on his globe! Dreads its not 2hrs from seattle!
You cannot drive your electric car to hawaii dreads..... look to the west on your globe!
For your sake I hope she specializes in PSYCHIATRY!
How are the little BROWN ONES?
I you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch!
Before your wife graduates you could consider shock therapy!
Imagine how much you have to pay at the University for that dissertation. Thank dread for trying to "learn you" something boy!
Very clear and concise political analysis worth saving.
Careful, you are threading in uncharted waters just mentioning the untouchable subjects like "Hasidic Jews" , shelter yourself against the oncoming missile strike.
thanks for educating me, and the forum.
dread thanks for standing up against jeb's insults of Dominican educational capacity...however I want to probe your repeated assertions of the system being so flawed in DR. I know I'm absent so I concede I'm speaking from hearsay however I know I have reports in my fam of many aunts, cousins, friends who finished advanced education, engineering, and medical degrees in DR. Is the ed system really the prob or lack of opportunity for entrepreneurism?
You are not even close to sparring in an even terrain against dreadlocks.
You throw punches below the belt and resort to offensive name calling because that is the only way you know to rebuke the intelligent posts directed at you.
Give it up and don't ridicule and humiliate yourself in public any more.
1. Certain types of tourism investment will stand to a halt because of inability to finance new construction.
2. Our tourists denominated "mass tourism" are not limited by high income visitors that are only
5% of the total.
3. It is expected by experts for total tourism flow in the caribbean not to drop below 5% of last
years statistics, with the exception of Cuba because of the low quality of their services will suffer a bigger drop in total visitors.
4. I do not agree on the rosy prospects for sales of high price real estate. This era is over for the foreseeable future.
5. Efforts should be made to increase the present options surrounding the all inclusive enclaves, as far as providing cultural activities,
Increase night life, gastronomy, sports tourism, and ecological tourism. Instead of having visitors after 5PM bored with nothing to do.
in fundamental markets like US and Canada. Besides concentrating in the main European countries
like Spain, France, Germany, England, Italy and Russia. And then in South America, Brazil and Mexico.