Binational: Artibonite River, on the border.
Santo Domingo. - Dominican Environment minister Bautista Rojas and Haiti colleague Jean Francois Thomas on Thursday agreed to protect the border area jointly, by increasing forest coverage, vigilance and civic education as the priority.
The announcement comes just one day after the two countries agreed to link their electricity grids, in a effort to expand and consolidate Hispaniola’s the energy market.
The officials agreed that given their geographic location and vulnerability to natural disasters, both nations should focus on several areas.
Thomas said Port-au-Prince’s environmental agenda includes massive reforestation to restore his country’s seriously deteriorated vegetation and natural resources.
"However, without educating citizens on the environmental, we cannot plant trees, it would be in vain. So a massive education campaign begins, and the work that you are doing from the Dominican Environment Ministry is very successful," the official told Rojas.
Rojas said Santo Domingo aims to help its neighbor to on environmental initiatives, and asks to include that issue in the bi-national commission’s agenda. "The borders are more than policies and we’re aware that what happens in one country goes into the other. The border area is of strategic importance to us and we in fact have specific actions all along the border."
Written by: BASTA, 31 Jan 2013 3:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs/Free abortions for all
Beautiful area, but no trees except Mangos
Written by: Atabey, 31 Jan 2013 3:30 PM
From: United States, NYC
Get with it and start planting those millions of trees on both sides, especially on Haiti's side of the border.
From: United States
This river exists because (thanks GOD) this river's sources are in the "cordillera central" in the Dominican side.
Written by: RonEvane 
, 31 Jan 2013 8:03 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
" without educating citizens on the environmental, we cannot plant trees"
This isn't a matter of "educating", it's a matter of necessity. Without charcoal, the food doesn't get cooked, and people will keep felling trees for this purpose, no matter the effort made.
Poor people need to have some kind of alternative to wood charcoal. One promising way is to build and distribute "solar ovens". Although not extremely efficient, it does the job and helps to conserve the forests.
This oven can be put together from scrap metal, and a bit of tin soldering. Not at all hard or expensive to make.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
@Ron,
Your idea seems like a good start, but there will be cloudy days and people will still need to eat on those days, which could be a problem. I am not criticizing your suggestion; on the contrary, I support it. Still, the numbers are absolutely daunting, in terms of how many ovens would be needed.
I would like to also propose some inexpensive, single burner gas stoves. Naturally, there would have to be some subsidies for the gas and that might be the best compromise. All others, such as bringing electricity to far and away primitive villages could prove both costly and impractical, and you'd still face heavy subsidies. I don't want to give up , but the Haitian situation is a difficult one, with much too many poor people occupying a small and barren land mass. Perhaps I should better stay out this one and leave it for the resident intelligentsia.
MJEV.
Written by: RonEvane , 1 Feb 2013 12:37 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
@Glomarexplorer
The problem with gas stoves is the cost of it, and expense/difficulty in getting enough gas to last long enough to cook several meals.
I can assure you that anything that depends on free energy, such as our sun, is what make the most sense, is cheapest, and, (under the circumstances), will work better than any other solution.
One other way to go, is to extract Methane gas from "digesters". This is done in India with great success. .. One only needs to gather up enough feces, human or animal, and let it "cook" for a week or two. After that, as long as it's replenished with more poop, it'll generate energy indefinitely.
When I retire back to my DR, a Methane Digester is what I intend on building in my finca. I'tll satisfy all my cooking fuel needs and probably have enough left over to power my automobile.
My only problem would be getting enough people to come poop in my toilets!
Written by: RoyStone, 1 Feb 2013 6:15 AM
From: Australia
"put together from scrap metal, and a bit of tin soldering"
Out of the question, Ron
all metals require mining, and "tin" solder also contains lead, and both are poisons.
As for methane from sludge digestors - it is not viable . The power produced from the gas from 1.5 million people (Eastern Melbourne) is barely enough to run the plant. The problem with advocates of these "green" systems is, they fail to do the basic arithmetic. It just doesn't add up. If you generate enough methane from your domestic sludge digestor for your cooking needs, (let alone run a car), I promise you, I'll eat my hat.
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
Good discussion.
I think the idea of small propane stoves using subsidized propane would be a good initial step. It's been successful in the DR when combined with strict enforcement of laws preventing the cutting of trees for charcoal.
There might also need to be a carrot for the people who now make their living producing and selling charcoal that would help them find alternate ways to support themselves -- maybe hire them to plant trees rather than cut them down.
Longer term I think efforts to introduce solar stoves and even methane digesters in both countries could be beneficial, but the problem is immediate and huge so concentrating on tried and true methods is probably more practical, at least for now.
Whatever is done, it needs to be a massive, coordinated effort if it is to solve this problem. Otherwise it will inevitably continue to get worse as the population continues to grow.
Written by: RonEvane , 1 Feb 2013 12:57 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
I think the idea of small propane stoves using subsidized propane would be a good initial step."
Carpintero. Good post.
However, the cheapest stove I could find here, costs $34.97. Way too expensive, not counting the propane + cylinder necessary.
Even if it were to cost $5.00 each, it would still be more than poor countries like DR and Haiti could afford. And what happens when one runs out of Propane? .. And no money for more?
The simple and locally-made, cheaply mass-produced "solar oven", is one that's proven to be useful, effective and appropriate for the times. Cloudy days, notwithstanding.
Written by: RonEvane , 1 Feb 2013 1:29 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
“I’ll eat my hat”
Hopefully you won’t get indigestion.
“The problem with advocates of these ‘green’ systems, is they fail to do basic arithmetic, it just doesn’t add up”
Really?....”A 2cubic meter Biodigester can produce 2cubic meters of cooking gas. This is equivalent to 1kg of LPG”-- Quote from Wikipedia- - Look it up.
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
Ron,
Initial expense of stoves and tanks is a problem.
Maybe part of the the solution would be to distribute propane stoves and tanks to poor families at sharply reduced prices to get things rolling.
An important piece of the puzzle would be to also curb the supply of charcoal to encourage the shift to propane.
Written by: rokete, 1 Feb 2013 5:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
You should educate people to eat more raw fruits and vegetables, because they are healthier.
Only use fire from Methane, the most abundant organic compound on earth
Huge savings, better for the environment.
Written by: RonEvane , 1 Feb 2013 5:56 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Totally, Rokete!
Written by: RoyStone, 1 Feb 2013 8:23 PM
From: Australia
Ron quotes
.”A 2cubic meter Biodigester can produce 2cubic meters of cooking gas. This is equivalent to 1kg of LPG”
I need the link.
2 cubic metres per what, - hour, day, lifetime? How much shit is required?
I think my hat is still safe.
Written by: RoyStone, 1 Feb 2013 8:31 PM
From: Australia
rokete, suggests
"... eat more raw fruits and vegetables, because they are healthier."
Absolutely correct.
However Duminicans prefer to peel, chop-up and cook everything, with heaps of oil, salt or sugar.
Written by: RonEvane , 1 Feb 2013 10:14 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Here's the link:
"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_digestion
Initially, the poop in question takes about one week to decay and produce gas. After that, with a "continuous batch" system used, the volume of gas produced is directly proportional to its holding capacity and the amount of poop and other organics added to it.
This means that if the Digester is fed every day, it will give you gas every day. The only variables are capacity and volume.
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
I checked the article in Wikipedia and it seems you can also use other kinds of organic waste similar to what you put in a composter. This would increase gas production and have multiple benefit, including providing fertile composted material for use in gardens.
However, as with all new methods, it is a challenge to make them economically competitive with competing methods, to make them practical and easy for day-to-day household use by regular people, to adapt them to existing cultural beliefs and practices and, finally, to give people compelling reasons to take the risks and make the effort to change.
None of this is simple,as thousands of community development and appropriate technology initiatives around the world have shown. It's not easy to get people to change, even in developed societies and perhaps more so in traditional societies.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but we need to be aware of the challenges involved.
Written by: RonEvane , 2 Feb 2013 8:17 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"However, as with all new methods, it is a challenge to make them economically competitive"
What? You're joking, right? What could possibly be cheaper than human poop?
New methods? This isn't new! What challenges? A Digester needs low-tech, inexpensive components to make it work. I figure the luxury version may cost around USD$50. 00 for materials, give or take.
In the nation of India, since its inception in the early '70's, this thing has had a colossal/phenomenal results. The savings in fuel have been astonishing! The forested territory has grown and people live a healthier life... They don't waste their good shit, anymore. .. What's left after the Methane has been extracted, is really good, inert fertilizer good for growing food, which is eaten and then pooped out, to start the whole cycle again ! ...But don't take my word for it, google it!
Written by: RoyStone, 2 Feb 2013 9:22 PM
From: Australia
RonEvane,
asks,
What could possibly be cheaper than human poop?
Coal, oil and uranium are lying in the ground for free. Sunlight is free. Wind, waves and the tide are free. Geo-thermal energy is free. It is the harnessing that costs money.
Have you put your money where your mouth (or should I say "ass") is and made your own sludge-digestor yet Ron? You quote India as a success story, however sludge digestion is still insignificant there. Like most alternative, green or reusable energy technologies, only viable for getting government grants and incentives.
Numbers, Ron, do the numbers. My hat is still looking safe.
Written by: rokete, 2 Feb 2013 9:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
RoyStone,
Are you a Leb that has been moving around the globe, from place to place??
Smaller
Bigger
Close Gallery
Facebook
Digg this
del.icio.us
Technorati
Yahoo
Get with it and start planting those millions of trees on both sides, especially on Haiti's side of the border.
" without educating citizens on the environmental, we cannot plant trees"
This isn't a matter of "educating", it's a matter of necessity. Without charcoal, the food doesn't get cooked, and people will keep felling trees for this purpose, no matter the effort made.
Poor people need to have some kind of alternative to wood charcoal. One promising way is to build and distribute "solar ovens". Although not extremely efficient, it does the job and helps to conserve the forests.
This oven can be put together from scrap metal, and a bit of tin soldering. Not at all hard or expensive to make.
Your idea seems like a good start, but there will be cloudy days and people will still need to eat on those days, which could be a problem. I am not criticizing your suggestion; on the contrary, I support it. Still, the numbers are absolutely daunting, in terms of how many ovens would be needed.
I would like to also propose some inexpensive, single burner gas stoves. Naturally, there would have to be some subsidies for the gas and that might be the best compromise. All others, such as bringing electricity to far and away primitive villages could prove both costly and impractical, and you'd still face heavy subsidies. I don't want to give up , but the Haitian situation is a difficult one, with much too many poor people occupying a small and barren land mass. Perhaps I should better stay out this one and leave it for the resident intelligentsia.
MJEV.
@Glomarexplorer
The problem with gas stoves is the cost of it, and expense/difficulty in getting enough gas to last long enough to cook several meals.
I can assure you that anything that depends on free energy, such as our sun, is what make the most sense, is cheapest, and, (under the circumstances), will work better than any other solution.
One other way to go, is to extract Methane gas from "digesters". This is done in India with great success. .. One only needs to gather up enough feces, human or animal, and let it "cook" for a week or two. After that, as long as it's replenished with more poop, it'll generate energy indefinitely.
When I retire back to my DR, a Methane Digester is what I intend on building in my finca. I'tll satisfy all my cooking fuel needs and probably have enough left over to power my automobile.
My only problem would be getting enough people to come poop in my toilets!
Out of the question, Ron
all metals require mining, and "tin" solder also contains lead, and both are poisons.
As for methane from sludge digestors - it is not viable . The power produced from the gas from 1.5 million people (Eastern Melbourne) is barely enough to run the plant. The problem with advocates of these "green" systems is, they fail to do the basic arithmetic. It just doesn't add up. If you generate enough methane from your domestic sludge digestor for your cooking needs, (let alone run a car), I promise you, I'll eat my hat.
I think the idea of small propane stoves using subsidized propane would be a good initial step. It's been successful in the DR when combined with strict enforcement of laws preventing the cutting of trees for charcoal.
There might also need to be a carrot for the people who now make their living producing and selling charcoal that would help them find alternate ways to support themselves -- maybe hire them to plant trees rather than cut them down.
Longer term I think efforts to introduce solar stoves and even methane digesters in both countries could be beneficial, but the problem is immediate and huge so concentrating on tried and true methods is probably more practical, at least for now.
Whatever is done, it needs to be a massive, coordinated effort if it is to solve this problem. Otherwise it will inevitably continue to get worse as the population continues to grow.
I think the idea of small propane stoves using subsidized propane would be a good initial step."
Carpintero. Good post.
However, the cheapest stove I could find here, costs $34.97. Way too expensive, not counting the propane + cylinder necessary.
Even if it were to cost $5.00 each, it would still be more than poor countries like DR and Haiti could afford. And what happens when one runs out of Propane? .. And no money for more?
The simple and locally-made, cheaply mass-produced "solar oven", is one that's proven to be useful, effective and appropriate for the times. Cloudy days, notwithstanding.
“I’ll eat my hat”
Hopefully you won’t get indigestion.
“The problem with advocates of these ‘green’ systems, is they fail to do basic arithmetic, it just doesn’t add up”
Really?....”A 2cubic meter Biodigester can produce 2cubic meters of cooking gas. This is equivalent to 1kg of LPG”-- Quote from Wikipedia- - Look it up.
Initial expense of stoves and tanks is a problem.
Maybe part of the the solution would be to distribute propane stoves and tanks to poor families at sharply reduced prices to get things rolling.
An important piece of the puzzle would be to also curb the supply of charcoal to encourage the shift to propane.
Only use fire from Methane, the most abundant organic compound on earth
Huge savings, better for the environment.
Totally, Rokete!
.”A 2cubic meter Biodigester can produce 2cubic meters of cooking gas. This is equivalent to 1kg of LPG”
I need the link.
2 cubic metres per what, - hour, day, lifetime? How much shit is required?
I think my hat is still safe.
"... eat more raw fruits and vegetables, because they are healthier."
Absolutely correct.
However Duminicans prefer to peel, chop-up and cook everything, with heaps of oil, salt or sugar.
Here's the link:
"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_digestion
Initially, the poop in question takes about one week to decay and produce gas. After that, with a "continuous batch" system used, the volume of gas produced is directly proportional to its holding capacity and the amount of poop and other organics added to it.
This means that if the Digester is fed every day, it will give you gas every day. The only variables are capacity and volume.
However, as with all new methods, it is a challenge to make them economically competitive with competing methods, to make them practical and easy for day-to-day household use by regular people, to adapt them to existing cultural beliefs and practices and, finally, to give people compelling reasons to take the risks and make the effort to change.
None of this is simple,as thousands of community development and appropriate technology initiatives around the world have shown. It's not easy to get people to change, even in developed societies and perhaps more so in traditional societies.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but we need to be aware of the challenges involved.
"However, as with all new methods, it is a challenge to make them economically competitive"
What? You're joking, right? What could possibly be cheaper than human poop?
New methods? This isn't new! What challenges? A Digester needs low-tech, inexpensive components to make it work. I figure the luxury version may cost around USD$50. 00 for materials, give or take.
In the nation of India, since its inception in the early '70's, this thing has had a colossal/phenomenal results. The savings in fuel have been astonishing! The forested territory has grown and people live a healthier life... They don't waste their good shit, anymore. .. What's left after the Methane has been extracted, is really good, inert fertilizer good for growing food, which is eaten and then pooped out, to start the whole cycle again ! ...But don't take my word for it, google it!
asks,
What could possibly be cheaper than human poop?
Coal, oil and uranium are lying in the ground for free. Sunlight is free. Wind, waves and the tide are free. Geo-thermal energy is free. It is the harnessing that costs money.
Have you put your money where your mouth (or should I say "ass") is and made your own sludge-digestor yet Ron? You quote India as a success story, however sludge digestion is still insignificant there. Like most alternative, green or reusable energy technologies, only viable for getting government grants and incentives.
Numbers, Ron, do the numbers. My hat is still looking safe.
RoyStone,
Are you a Leb that has been moving around the globe, from place to place??