So do we have protests here against this foreign investor or do we look to the future and insist that the Dominican government has the right to equal equity in such projects or do we simply just gratefully take a bed tax , as is the norm

If I invest 4000 pesos in bananas on the faint hope I can sell them for 5000 pesos, does the Dominican government have "equal equity in such project"?
WFH?

they might not have equal equity, but they are entitled to a fair return. know why, pelaut? because tourism has positive, and negative effects. it is the host country that bears the brunt of the negative effects. they are the ones who have the social, cultural, and environmental negatives to deal with. the consumer nation does not. there is research that shows that European and North American tourists use 10 times the amount of water that locals use, on a per capita basis. in some islands, which have limited water supplies, locals have to go without water so that swimming pools can be filled. so, if you do not believe that the DR should have a fair share in the benefits from your platano farm, why not buy your own island, and keep all the profits. otherwise, try planting them in international waters. i saw a study that showed that caribbean destinations keep 11 cents of each tourist dollar. if you think that is ok, then go right ahead.

Written by: Ricardolito, 1 Feb 2013 8:33 AM
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo

So do we have protests here against this foreign investor or do we look to the future and insist that the Dominican government has the right to equal equity in such projects or do we simply just gratefully take a bed tax , as is the norm"


Let's see what the DT community thinks.


Dready,


And these units aren't going to J, Man!


I guess DR has something going for it, and it ain't Greek lessons LOL



:)

opines the intelligent Mr Magna

And these units aren't going to J, Man!

and, the units that are going to, and have gone to J are not coming here. so, your point is? you once made the same remark when i voiced negative thoughts about the Maimon Cruise port. it was jealousy. well, the Maimon port is small potatoes compared to the cruise port in Falmouth. you were saying?

Dread you failed to mention the water use of just on golf course per day!

thanks, stillhere. if i remember correctly, it is something like 600,000 gallons per day to keep a golf course irrigated.

Gents. I am back.

This is the old guy with 28 years hospitality experience. From Marriott, Hilton, Sheraton, etc., to a large Convention Bureau that attracts business to their doors.

Ricardolito.

"So do we have protests here against this foreign investor or do we look to the future and insist that the Dominican government has the right to equal equity in such projects or do we simply just gratefully take a bed tax , as is the norm."


"equal equity"? Hmm. What I hear you and others saying, is some outside investor is willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars, hire hundreds of local D. R. people who more than likely are not working now, train them, and spend their own dollars to bring outsiders to the D. R. shores and then should share its profits with the D. R.? Aren't you the charmer?

continued

Anyone out there ever hear of reclamation? Guess not!

If the lot of you would be responsible to attract foreign investments, the D. R. can turn off the light when the last one of you leaves. With that attitude of you Monday morning Hoteliers, the D. R. would slip into infinity never to be seen again.

President Medina knows what is needed for his country. Let he and others more versed in hospitality attract investors so the employment problem can lessen. If the local economy would enjoy 2 cents on every USD spent, it would be that much further ahead.

How much blood can you drain from a turnip? Not-with-standing, with businesses around the globe showing little or no profits, and want to spend millions in the D. R., your negativity can and will force them to go elsewhere. The D. R. needs them more than they need the D. R.

continued

says CarpeDiem

"equal equity"? Hmm. What I hear you and others saying, is some outside investor is willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars, hire hundreds of local D. R. people who more than likely are not working now, train them, and spend their own dollars to bring outsiders to the D. R. shores and then should share its profits with the D. R.? Aren't you the charmer?

so, who puts up the venue? who has to spend on infrastructure for the tourist presence? who has to pay for additional security? who suffers when a bunch of unruly tourists turn a town into Sosua, and Boca Chica? whose nationals suffer when the presence of a dual economy drives up property values for locals? who ends up with a ghost town, like POP, when the tour operators start sending their clients to the next hot destination? do you believe that, for all that downside, caribbean destinations should only recieve 11 cents of the tourist dollar?

Negative effects? Maybe we should just tell these would-be investors to stay away. Spend your millions of dollars in someone else's backyard where all the negativity can be absorbed. It is a sure bet none of you are economists! Or have a clue what the hospitality industry is all about and how blessed destinations that draw investors willing to embrace the people of the D. R., put them to work, are clamoring to get their attention.

In the U. S. about 25-30 years ago, I marketed for a sizeable A & E firm. At the time, would you believe there was a push to build new, Federal Prisons? Would you also believe, that the very tiny rural communities in podunk USA would like up around the corner to host their facility? Why would anyone with a lick of sense, want a Prison in their backyard? Would you?

continued

actually i am an economist. at least , something of one. the World Bank Institute presented me with a graduate diploma saying they thought so. are you? if you scoff at the idea of negative effects occasioned by the tourist industry, then maybe you are not.

Dreadlocks;

Without trying to sound like George Carlin, I would agree on the whole golf course assertion, and would wonder about the validities of such installations. Personally, I think it’s a useless game, but that’s just me. It does, however, represent large scale revenue dollars via tourism. There must be alternatives to using fresh water irrigation techniques.

But, about the fresh water usage per capita comparison; I would like to see that study or the report thereof. I would like to see its components broken out into categories of just what do we mean by "usage".

Be clear that I'm not contradicting you, but I would like to see the report none the less so I may be more educated. I mean the first order of business in any travelers orientation is "Don't drink the water". So it can't be an issue of human consumption exclusively - not to my mind at least.
Can you help me out in this?

Do you have a link to this report that you could send to my inbox please?

So you ask the question, why? It boosted the economy and brought job opportunities to their locale. And interestingly enough, after the Prisons were opened, the locals crime rates went up as families and friends of the "felons" moved to their community to be by their "loved" ones. Catch 22.

Well the good thing, is the investors are not "felons", and in spite of all your negativity, thank God, they still want to invest in the D. R..

How many of you that post your comments on this particular subject, have had any experience in Hospitality or marketing for a foreign country? Let those come forward immediately so we know their expertise.

Ciao

ok, first of all, i have the article somewhere, but i have to dig it up. but instinct tells me that the numbers cannot be far off. have you ever thought about the idea of taking a shower in Constanza? it is a simple matter of a few quarts to get wet, getting the soap on, and rinsing off, as quickly as possible. the tourist has hot running water in his hotel room. he gets in the shower, whistles a happy tune, and washes forever. when i bathe in hot water, you need a grenade to get me out of the shower. he uses 30 times as much water to bathe as a Dominican in the winter months. makes sense? i will look for some articles about this little matter of water usage. hey, don't forget how many swimming pools there are, and how much water it takes to fill them.

DR should enact a law that a dominican firm must own 30 or 40 percent of the resort...Something that limits foreign ownership to a certain percentage..

D.locks. "They thought so"? Whatever that means. No, I am not a degreed economist as you are. I am envious though.

However, I do have a PhD in International Marketing, a MBA in International Finance and 28 years in the International hospitality industry. Not sure how that compares to your economist degree as it relates to the Tourism industry. We can let the readers decide who they believe has the most knowledge to intelligently comment on this subject.

continued

ADSOLUTELY,hernandez!!!!!! the Jamaican government just spent 165 million to dredge Falmouth harbor, so Carnival can bring their ship there. the locals are getting squat, which is exactly what is going to happen in Maimon. watch these guys run a direct private road to Ocean World, have their own ground transportation, their own stores, and restaurants, and tours. the local guy is going to get to watch how money is made, nothing more.

If I might be indulged in a contribution on the issue of negative effect, then perhaps there should be some thought lent to the notion of simple "visual pollution". The RD is such a beautiful nation, and it is so finite in its available offerings. The last thing I would want is to have the shorelines littered with even more hotels, resorts, private condos, and spas - so that it becomes tantamount to Miami Beach South. How ugly would that be? It’s fine for foreigners to build when they don’t even live there. What of the fate of those left to deal with it?

Before we get caught up in issues of trade, economy, and even what looks to be an onslaught of personal insults, let's first examine the issue of making vs. opportunity to make the most of what's already there.

You want to invest in tourism? You want good will? Invest in cleaning up what’s already there! There's big money and good will in that. Let's be smart about this, and leave the rest alone to be admired.

says CarpeDiem

Well the good thing, is the investors are not "felons", and in spite of all your negativity, thank God, they still want to invest in the D. R..

thank God for what? do you know why they want to invest? do you think they do it because they like the people in the DR so much? they do it because they make a lot of money. they are not doing any favors. i just love it when people like you tell us how much benefit it is to the locals. hey, do you know how many Haitians got direct jobs when Royal Caribbean leased Labadee? 80 people!!!! so do not give me this horsecrap about all the benefits. the guys were importing vegetables from Miami. not even the Haitian farmer was earning a dime. you need to do some catch up reading.

On the issue of the report Dreadlocks;

Again, don’t think for a moment I am disagreeing with you, nor making it sound as if I'm calling a bluff.

I am a tourist, and I see the limited 'green initiatives' that the resorts try to keep up with. So, if there's something I can be doing better, then count me in. I also see the areas that could be administered better and I relate those ideas to the resort management, (in writing). An example would be; lawn irrigation practices which leave huge pools of water on the lawns and in the walkways - wherein better management could save millions of gallons per year on that front alone. Active 2 way involvement is key here.

The issue of the pools and such is exactly what I am talking about. I want to see if it's clear where the water goes. Surely there is a problem, and I want to be on board to help the solution. And I want to thank you in advance for bringing me up to speed with your experience and - if you can find it - that report.

D. locks. Anyone with a degree in economics, should have learned to make i a capital I and also start each sentence with a capital. You must have missed those classes.

d(D)o you know how many people, in every country around the globe that has automobile traffic, are killed (negative effect) in traffic accidents? i (I) think your economist energy would be best spent going after them. Not how much water is consumed by a resort. in the D. R. or how impossible it is to take a bath in a bad locale. People are starving around the world too, but unfortunately, we cannot help them.

Would it be best, if the D. R. did not spend that money to dredge? PhD's ( in medical research) around the world, spend billions of dollars to find cures. Yet when, or should I say "if" they find a cure, people in other countries will benefit from their hard spent dollars? Should they too stop spending their money and time? Your short-sightedness amazes me.

I am going to let you children figure it all out. With your experiences, President Medina should hire every one of you to help in attracting International Funding. Then he would have no problems. Good luck.

I choose not to debate issues that none of you have any experience in. That is why this blog turns into a pissing contest. I don't want to lower myself to your standards. You can vent all you want. with each other.

I need to spend my time more wisely that is productive. This "ain't" it. Until we meet again. I'm gone.

Ciao

Hah!
Always nice to see people with such credentials
He is quite the expert....

Carpe:

I too have years of experience in the hospitality industry. You had stated your previous resume, and so you will understand me when I say AHR. Supply is an industry that is thriving - which implies that there is massive scale usage -and therefore potential for waste. This would also be true, therefore, of commodity misuse.

So, whereby there is no question that tourism is able to create for any given destination, the question being put forth here is; has this been the case in the RD? If the anecdotal response of the people of the island is worth anything, (and I think it is), then the response is clearly "not so far", and "I need proof". The RD is not a cookie cutter example. It is very unique among its peer group of hosts in that social circumstance had turned everyone into a citizen of Missouri - Show Me.

This is a very important topic, and needs exploration... But there's no currency in slander or insult.

Lets all get back on track.

I'm certainly not a PHD in anything, and have all my idiotic postings to prove it ...Be that as it may, there's still a little common sense in me, And it tells me that all the water and food consumed by tourists isn't free.
I think the local utilities benefit greatly from selling power, water and charging for sewage.
This in addition to foods sold by the tons, by local producers.
The govt, will presumably also charge a fee with taxes, airport usage, etc.
The number of those hired by the resort, matters not. Even if it's just a few, it's still many more than what it was before the investments were made.

In the end, I think we all benefit greatly. How the pie is divided, is of little consequence. We in the DR today will have something we didn't have yesterday, and that's what matters the most.

That is the kind investment we need US$400M, Spanish investors are betting on consistent growth in DR.

Why can't we get that kind of investment from illegal Haitian immigrants??

Or from some Jamaicans that are advocating Haitian illegals in our country??

EXPEL ALL ILLEGAL HAITIANS FROM QUISQUEYA !!!

QUE VIVA TRUJILLO MOLINA !!!!

Rokete, you're a dumb ass bent on disrespecting those who suffered under Trujillo, and spreading hatred with your ignorance.! You will not succeed. I'll fight you all the way. Come mierda!

Right on, Ron.

RonEvane, juanb

Couldn't care less about you, and your menace.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

And one more thing.

Your comments show that I am succeeding already.

EXPEL ALL ILLEGAL HAITIANS FROM QUISQUEYA !!!

QUE VIVA TRUJILLO MOLINA !!!!

That Haitian Zombie !!!

LOL, JAJAJA

says CarpeDiem

I need to spend my time more wisely that is productive. This "ain't" it. Until we meet again. I'm gone.

Ciao

don't let the door hit you too hard in the ass. We will do our level best to try to survive your absence.

says Hernandez

Written by: hernandez5482, 1 Feb 2013 1:44 PM
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
Hah!
Always nice to see people with such credentials
He is quite the expert....

i stand corrected. i thought the word to describe him started with an A.

says rokete

Or from some Jamaicans that are advocating Haitian illegals in our country??

i guess that you are referring to me. well, rokete, it seems like there is a pandemic of academic dishonesty within this site, since i am one of the foremost opponents of illegal immigration within the DR. i guess you take lessons from Atabey. if you cannot bring across your point by honest means, nothing is wrong with a little lying.

Written by: dreadlocks, 1 Feb 2013 12:56 PM
From: United States

ok, first of all, i have the article somewhere, but i have to dig it up. "



Where is it?


The dog eat it?


BTW, Dready you think that perhaps the dismantling of the earlier architecture of the income tax and undoing of the Haig –Simon concept of income in the USA, might have influenced wealthy elites in Latin America to do so and led to lowering their tax contributions? Seems plausible to me. What saith the Dready with an economic degree from the World Bank!

first thing, Atabey, when you choose to discuss the intricacies of a person's thoughts, the very least you can do is to get the name right. the guy's name is Simons. secondly, i do not engage in speculation as to what might have been the motivations of Latin American elite.

What did Dready say??

Something about an Economics Post Graduate degree from the World Bank??

Dam Dready that is really something !!!

Is that:

World Bank University of Higher Smokes ??

Dready when you go high on smoke, you really become a pompous ass.

Really bombastic !!!

you sound jealous, rokete. not my fault you are one of the guys who failed the entrance exam to the community college in SD. you are stll young. start with learning the alphabet, and counting to ten. it all falls into place, slowly. secondly, it is not the World Bank University. it is the World Bank Institute. they would not allow people like you on the compound.

Hmm... strange... I thought Quisqueya referred to the entire island - both sides. Oh sure there's the municipalities and such, but if I'm right then how can you expel Haitians - and why? Do you perhaps mean to try to correct the problem of illegals in the RD portion of the shared island?

And just how do you propose to get investment from these people? And if they had cash to invest why would they not just invest in their nation? For that matter, if they had cash, why would they be trying to eek a living on your side of the border - at great risk I might add. It's and interesting idea, but it sounds hollow.

So instead of instigating hate through "trolling", why not expound on your theory?

Since this has become - in part - an issue of resources, then the issue of payment for it is moot. If the resource is in short supply this implies that the nationals of the RD are suffering at the hands of the turistas. If that's true then there is a far larger problem, and conservation is only a small portion of its root.

If the greater issue is whether the revenue is filtering to the benefit of the nation in general, then would it be naive to ask if it's too early to judge if the new government has done its job so far? It’s been less than a year and they've been very busy un-raveling all sorts of previous nonsense. I know that pain runs deep, but this may need some more time to see what's really happening from a fiscal point.

In the meantime, at least the industry does support more people than it would if the resorts were not there. But the question then becomes; if there is fiscal trickle concern, then why build more until you find out which way this gov't wind blows.

Dready, Remember that movie, "UP IN SMOKE".

Marijuana smoke make people dumb, like you.

Dready when you go high on smoke, you really become a pompous ass.

Really bombastic !!!

LOL

JAJAJA

i become a pompous ass when i get high. you became a neanderthal moron when you were spawned.

Dready

Oops, my mistake, World Bank Institute of Marijuana Smokes.

Got it !!!!

Dready when you go high on smoke, you really become a pompous ass.

Really bombastic !!!

Tutting your own horn???

LOL

Children.

Let me jump in for a few. Reading all the posts above, it sounds like "Sticks and stones", my daddy can beat up your daddy, yada yada yada ......

Each of you should read what you have written and ask yourself, if you really and truly believe it is above third grade verbiage. Everyone needs to grow up. Of course, unless you are below the age of 8 (third grade)

continued

This is ONLY for Dready.

To make a capital for all I's and the first letter of a sentence, you hold down the "shift" key (it can be located on most keyboards (what you type on) on the lower left hand side, just above the Control key. Then hit the letter you wish to capitalize. Now, that wasn't so hard ... or was it? You WBI degreed economist! We are all jealous of the stature you have achieved. And you are truly a "role model".

I am envious. You are the only one who graduated from WBI, that I know of, or who will admit to it. Good job. Is that what has qualified you to speak so eloquently in your posts?

Y'all play nice.

Ciao

i thought you had left the thread. what's the matter? ran out of people who want to be around you? miss the folks over here? hey, it's not my fault that you are an insufferable, miserable a**hole, looking for a fight. here's a little news for you. i am writing conversational english here, and i have no need to resort to formal styles of writing. i do not need any advice on writing english from you, thank you. i have a Distinction 1 from Cambridge University in the General Paper, which is the test of english proficiency from that venerable and august institution. when i want to write a formal paper, i can revert to the formal style. this is the age of text messaging. we use shorthand

do us all a favor and leave, again. we will not miss you. if your wife just kicked your ass, don't take it out on me, and try to ruin my day. go find the guy who caused it. want me to get one of my buddies to sneak in some viagra for you? i do not want some broke dick guy haunting me.

My wife died almost two years ago!

sorry to hear it. sincerely. maybe that is why you wait 24 hours to come back to the forum to issue insults. well adjusted people do not do that. after a few hours, they calm down, and think of other ways to occupy themselves. you need to get out,and get laid. it is unfair for you to wreak havoc on the rest of humanity just because you have no sex life.

For goodness sake! The volume of bait, which is offered up, is overwhelming. But what’s worse is the mind boggling rate at which it's taken and acted upon.

Other than the weather reports, I'm not certain that I have ever read a single column that has not disintegrated into mindless finger pointing, and hurling of insult. This is nothing more than ladling comedy upon catastrophe.

Obviously DT is going to do nothing to dissuade this behaviour, so we readers will need to. And, so far, replying in kind has not been paying any quality dividends has it?

It is so counterproductive for people with intellect, emotion, and valid points of view to engage in games of such content-absent verbal volley. If someone offers and promotes this manner of dullardism, then, simply do nothing. Taking the bait only venerates their intent, and suggests legitimacy. Why on earth would you feel that you need to justify yourself when insulted? Remember; empty cans make the most noise.

originalmrb, i am guilty of the tendencies you just described. i confess. the mods have allowed too much leeway in this site, and all manner of cyberspace goons and thugs have joined the circus, believing they can run roughshod over others. i have to take a stand at times.

Mr. Original.
There are way too many insolent “children” interjecting their idiocy/silliness in the adult discussions.
These constant irritants are hard to ignore, and although it’s clear that they want attention, I, for one can’t resist disregarding their foolishness and, as a good “father”, try to correct them.

But you’re absolutely right. It’s useless to rationalize with the mentally incomplete and socially deprived. I’ll try harder to ignore their rantings, and overlook their attempts to be seen as relevant.
I thank you for educating further, this old geezer.

Ron, i am the first to admit that i have too short a fuse, and i go berserk when i have to deal with some people here. it is obvious that there are too many guys here with childhood issues, who are now looking for paternal attention. obviously, many of then grew up without the presence of a father, and have no idea what manhood is. so, they believe that they can use excess testosterone to make a point. they butt into every thread, even when they do not have a clue about the subject matter. they just have to be noticed, since their fathers ignored them during childhood. they remind me of those guys with excessively loud stereo systems in their cars, blaring dimwitted music everywhere they go, as if to say "look at me..i am here". have you ever noticed that NO guy who blares his car stereo is ever playing Beethoven, or Strauss?

Mr. Dread. At one time, I chose to abandon this site, precisely because of the incessant background noise which gave me headaches and frayed my nerves. It’s easy enough to lose patience and start hurling ugly insults back, and then revisiting what I had written, to my shame and regret.

I suppose it’s a matter of reason vs.emotions. I think I learnt my lesson and will try to deal with these people as what they are: Idiotic posters, with no substance or relevance to make a bit of difference, in any way.

well, put, Ron. all they are is background noise. they do not even rise to the level of elevator music.

Back to the topic at hand, I think the first order of business (as far as the touristic sector is concerned, anyway) is for the country to move away from the All Inclusive model. We don't gain anything with having all these projects like independent bubbles while the surrounding countryside is filled with rundown bateyes, but then, for this moving away to come forth, the state would have to up the game in other areas as well (like ditching the current security forces for ones with a true professional approach, which includes getting the officers a decent pay, for starters).

Mr Lautaro, the AI model of tourism is the worst thing that ever happened to the caribbean. if Butch Stewart and the Issa Brothers knew what they were exposing the region to, i doubt they would have developed this horror. the big problem with AI is that the kind of tourists it attracts are the worst types. they are the cheapskates that buy 7 day packages for 599.00. they chase out the original tourists, that spend the real money. i have heard rumblings about resurrecting POP. can't happen. they have to REINVENT POP. it cannot continue with the all inclusive motif. there will be no real development. people in the DR will be able to brag how many tourists the country gets each year, while the real money will be made in Antigua and St Barts.

Right there you are, dread. I have always been of the opinion that it's better to grow slowly but steadily than to grow fast and only get to do so concentrated on a few areas. There's no better indicator of the development of a country than the satellite images one can get about the country at night (at rossmaps.blogspot.com). Speaking about the DR case, one can clearly see that the resources (in this case, power input) is clearly concentrated in the landstrip from Santo Domingo to Santiago and a few points in the east and Puerto Plata (on the other side of the island, the Port-Au-Prince area, nothing more). In comparison, the neighboring island of PR is just one luminous point from corner to corner, which indicates how much road we have left to travel in order to reach that point (if we ever do).

If you take a look at trade routes from Europe or in the rest of the world-you'll see the same phenomenon, it's called WHERE PEOPLE LIVE AND MOST OF THE ACTION TAKES PLACE.

In PR it looks like one solid point BECAUSE PR IS TINY compared to DR. IF traffic weren't a constraint, you could go from one corner of PR to the other in 2 hours, in the south to north, even less time!

During the Middle Ages, organizations such as the Hanseatic League, aimed at protecting interests of the merchants, and trade became increasingly prominent.

Incense Route?
Silk Road?
Grand Trunk Road?
Amber Road?
Roman-India routes?


That our main electrification route extend chiefly from SD to Santiago is a reflection of our historical development as a nation with those two poles as the anchors.

Written by: CarpeDiem, 3 Feb 2013 12:20 AM
From: United States

This is ONLY for Dready.

To make a capital for all I's and the first letter of a sentence, you hold down the "shift" key (it can be located on most keyboards (what you type on) on the lower left hand side, just above the Control key. Then hit the letter you wish to capitalize. Now, that wasn't so hard ... or was it? You WBI degreed economist! We are all jealous of the stature you have achieved. And you are truly a "role model".

I am envious. You are the only one who graduated from WBI, that I know of, or who will admit to it. Good job. Is that what has qualified you to speak so eloquently in your posts?

Y'all play nice.

Ciao

Written by: dreadlocks, 3 Feb 2013 12:29 AM


i thought you had left the thread. what's the matter? ran out of people who want to be around you? miss the folks over here? hey, it's not my fault that you are an insufferable, miserable a**hole, looking for a fight. here's a littl

i thought you had left the thread. what's the matter? ran out of people who want to be around you? miss the folks over here? hey, it's not my fault that you are an insufferable, miserable a**hole, looking for a fight. here's a little news for you. i am writing conversational english here, and i have no need to resort to formal styles of writing. i do not need any advice on writing english from you, thank you. i have a Distinction 1 from Cambridge University in the General Paper, which is the test of english proficiency from that venerable and august institution. when i want to write a formal paper, i can revert to the formal style. this is the age of text messaging. we use shorthand

do us all a favor and leave, again. we will not miss you. if your wife just kicked your ass, don't take it out on me, and try to ruin my day. go find the guy who caused it. want me to get one of my buddies to sneak in some viagra for you? i do not want some broke dick guy haunting me.

No truer reflection of Dready's style and characteristic display need be searched for, it's all above: his pageant for academic posturing, his vicious put downs, and nasty attitude towards others on DT.

Some Years ago, John wrote a few observations of Dready that are as true as the night follow the day:

gouletcolonial , 5 Jul 2008

Dread I hit the nail on the head.....Not all but a good chunk of them are like that.....Arriving on foreign shores the first thing they did was look for a government job the Brits that is.... Maybe a little bit rubbed off on you....That is why you are so touchy and sensitive when I bring it up.Just think how clannish the islanders are each island puffed up and trying to feel superior in its way..give it some thought ...reflect look within yourself....you are always diminishing other peoples education or intelligence that's pure Brit attitude...the queens English etc. you know what Barry said in his book don't you.... From Dreams of My Father...

Mr Lautaro, there is a concept of the TOURISM LIFE CYCLE. at the beginning, destinations are unknown. then, they get discovered by adventure tourists. these are usually a different demographic than the tourists who come later. the adventurers are a freelance group, who usually are more educated, and who are wealthier. the second phase is the development of the destination. at that time, the adventurers are still prominent. then, when the destination is developed, the other gropus come in. they wait till the area has developed, and when reviewers have reportee that it is nice , and safe. that group is usually less educated, and spends less money. they come in droves, and bring about the overcrowding of the area, with the undesirable results. the cheaper the tourism product becomes, the more of them come. they end up driving out the higher class of tourist that developed the destination. they go looking for less populated, more unknown areas.

so, what we have in POP is the riff raff of the tourist world, because the adventurers have long gone. the decline sets in, and the area dies. same as happened with Costa Brava in Spain. you cannot rejuvenate those areas. you have to reinvent them. that is a hard sell, because the DR markets tourism sweet spots. it is all about Bavaro, and Punta Cana. POP does not stand a chance against that area any more.

Written by: gouletcolonial , 5 Jul 2008 10:39 PM

Dread I hit the nail on the head.....Not all but a good chunk of them are like that.....Arriving on foriegn shores the first thing they did was look for a government job the Brits that is.... Maybe a little bit rubbed off on you....That is why you are so touchy and sensitive when I bring it up.Just think how clanish the islanders are each island puffed up and trying to feel superior in its way..give it some thought ...reflect look within yourself....you are always diminishing other peoples education or intelligence thats pure Brit attitude...the queens english etc. you know what Barry said in his book dont you.... From Dreams of My Father...I quote : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'..............@@@@@......Just like some of the whiners and complainers we have here... think about it

gouletcolonial ,

4 more years and Not much has changed Goulet. LOL

says Atabey

Written by: Atabey, 4 Feb 2013 8:55 PM
From: United States, NYC
No truer reflection of Dready's style and characteristic display need be searched for, it's all above: his pageant for academic posturing, his vicious put downs, and nasty attitude towards others on DT.

academic posturing? is that coming from a guy who claims to have graduated Magna Cum Laude, yet cannot divulge where he got his sheepskin? no, Atabey, posturing comes from guys who claim to have degrees, but cannot remember from one minute to the next what they are in.. vicious put downs? ever seen me put down Cibaeno? Mr Lautaro? Mr Rancier? Devin? Glomarexplorer? RonEvane? Stillhere? Guillermone?
of course not. i put down people like you, who do not rise to the level of those people, who are civilized, honorable, educated, intelligent people, who have evolved, and matured. medievals like you, who have childhood issues, and need attention, can expect to receive their fair share of insults.

Dready stated:

i thought you had left the thread. what's the matter? ran out of people who want to be around you? miss the folks over here? hey, it's not my fault that you are an insufferable, miserable a**hole, looking for a fight. here's a little news for you. i am writing conversational english here, and i have no need to resort to formal styles of writing. i do not need any advice on writing english from you, thank you. i have a Distinction 1 from Cambridge University in the General Paper, which is the test of english proficiency from that venerable and august institution. when i want to write a formal paper, i can revert to the formal style. this is the age of text messaging. we use shorthand

do us all a favor and leave, again. we will not miss you. if your wife just kicked your ass, don't take it out on me, and try to ruin my day. go find the guy who caused it. want me to get one of my buddies to sneak in some viagra for you? i do not want some broke dick guy haunting me.

Class act as always Dready. Going after the women, wives of fellow posters. What happened 25 years ago or was it longer? From the nastiness of your words I'll say something along those lines happened to you! Projecting, aren't we, Man.


Try and be cordial next time. Better yet engage in mild give and take.


---------------------------------------------

is it just me, or is there some background noise in here? the sound of an insignificant little juvenile, looking for attention? Atabey, is that you?

My pet Dready. Can you hear me now?

Dready, Like a chow-chow always barkin' you claim civility but do the opposite.


Now that WAS some mean spirited posting by you, don't you think?


The Dready stated:

"i thought you had left the thread. what's the matter? ran out of people who want to be around you? miss the folks over here? hey, it's not my fault that you are an insufferable, miserable a**hole, looking for a fight."

"do us all a favor and leave, again. we will not miss you. if your wife just kicked your ass, don't take it out on me, and try to ruin my day. go find the guy who caused it. want me to get one of my buddies to sneak in some viagra for you? i do not want some broke dick guy haunting me."


Written by: dreadlocks, 3 Feb 2013 8:16 AM
From: United States

originalmrb, i am guilty of the tendencies you just described. i confess."



You'll think Dready would learn. But 4 years and things are the same.

more background noise?

Poochi chow-chow

:)

Atabey says: "If you take a look at trade routes from Europe or in the rest of the world-you'll see the same phenomenon, it's called WHERE PEOPLE LIVE AND MOST OF THE ACTION TAKES PLACE."

Yeah, but at some point we will have to take upon ourselves the task of getting the South to stop being the Cinderella of the Republic, unless of course you're proposing for us to abandon it to (eventual) Haitian territorial encroachments, or are you forgetting the fact that it would be this kind of neglect on our part the thing that would make us lose the Central Plateau part of that same South during the "final" border negotiations of the 1930's (and which would lead up to the 1937 massacre in the first place)?

Dreadlocks

I guess I am feeling a bit offended by your broad comment, "...the kind of tourists it attracts are the worst types....".

My wife and I actually spend over 900 each to come for a week, and when you add in the airfare and taxes, et al, the tag for our week is 3 grand. Once there, we merrily drop an additional 300 - 400 dollars in tips. In the realization that the monies will only go so far, (to show gratitude and bolster what I am certain is a weak wage). I made sure to enroll in classes to learn Spanish because the one real thing I can do show respect for my hosts, (whose culture is steeped in and fairly dripping with respect). In other words; my motto is that - if I'm in your house, the least I can do is to speak your language. We clean up after ourselves everywhere we go. We never invade the privacy of others. There is never an encounter with our hosts which isn't peppered with proper etiquette of the Latin culture.

Your generalizations hurt….

............... But I have seen the type you are talking about. These are the types who feel that money buys the right of contempt. I get that. In fact I have had occasion to console many employees who have been mistreated by this "worst kind".

To further demonstrate my appreciation for a thankless job, I make sure to follow up our vacations with a letter of recommendation for the staff at large and individual letters of recognition for those who've made a lasting impression with us. I want to make sure that there is no question that the staff is truly appreciated and that there are those who deserve to have their employment secured if not advanced.

These letters go to, not only the administration of the resort, but also the ownership in Europe as well.

So you see Dradlocks, we're not all the same. I admire and respect the people of the RD. I am grateful that they allow me into their country. And I truly care about what is happening to them.

originalmrb, it goes without saying that you are a class guy. i have read your postings, and they are laced with reason, good measurement, and sanity. therefore, there is no reason for one such as yourself to take umbrage to my remarks. what i am saying is that all inclusive tourists are generally the low spender types who spend the least outside the hotel compound. worst has nothing to do with their personal traits. i speak about worst in terms of their contributions to the local economy. they belong to a demographic that is less likely to venture far from the AI compound. they eat all their meals there, so the local restaurants do not benefit from their existence. neither do the local discos, not even the gift shops, since places like Playa Dorada are truly all inclusive, with their own discos, stores, and even pizzerias. the low spender tourists offer no patronage to the local economy, once they have paid the tour operator the cost of the package.

Original,


Thanks for the input. Unlike a certain group of doom and gloom posters you bring a more positive position to the topic. Of course, those same doom and gloom attitudes have created poorer prospects in other regional nations. One which is currently undergoing a massive debt trap, with interest rates likely to increase substantially on their overall accumulative debts.

Outsiders are not the enemies of progress, the real enemies lurk within, and these enemies often use outsiders as scapegoat.

more blather from Atabey, the joke of the forum. he came in like a gunslinger, thinking he was going to give us all a display of superior academic acumen, and intellectual bandwidth. sadly, it did not pan out, since he is basically an academic paraplegic, who knows next to nothing, and makes his living by copying and pasting other people's work and ideas. fellow poster josean and i have spent our time exposing him as being a useless irritant, a sham who claims to have a Masters degree, but cannot remember where it is from, or what he studied, and, basically a useless, mindless irritant. we still all have hope that one day, before hell freezes over, he might make at least one intelligent remark

Dready stated:

i thought you had left the thread. what's the matter? ran out of people who want to be around you? miss the folks over here? hey, it's not my fault that you are an insufferable, miserable a**hole, looking for a fight. here's a little news for you. i am writing conversational english here, and i have no need to resort to formal styles of writing. i do not need any advice on writing english from you, thank you. i have a Distinction 1 from Cambridge University in the General Paper, which is the test of english proficiency from that venerable and august institution. when i want to write a formal paper, i can revert to the formal style. this is the age of text messaging. we use shorthand

do us all a favor and leave, again. we will not miss you. if your wife just kicked your ass, don't take it out on me, and try to ruin my day. go find the guy who caused it. want me to get one of my buddies to sneak in some viagra for you? i do not want some broke dick guy haunting me.

Written by: dreadlocks, 3 Feb 2013 8:16 AM
From: United States

originalmrb, i am guilty of the tendencies you just described. i confess."



You'll think Dready would learn. But 4 years and things are the same.


Poochi chow-chow

:)



What do they say about teaching an old dog a new trick?



:)

Atabey, why dont you just accept the message and realize that you are washed up here? actually, you are not a has been . you are a never was. and, Atabey, a never will be.

Written by: Lautaro, 5 Feb 2013 6:19 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo

Atabey says: "If you take a look at trade routes from Europe or in the rest of the world-you'll see the same phenomenon, it's called WHERE PEOPLE LIVE AND MOST OF THE ACTION TAKES PLACE."

Yeah, but at some point we will have to take upon ourselves the task of getting the South to stop being the Cinderella of the Republic, unless of course you're proposing for us to abandon it to (eventual) Haitian territorial encroachments, or are you forgetting the fact that it would be this kind of neglect on our part the thing that would make us lose the Central Plateau part of that same South during the "final" border negotiations of the 1930's (and which would lead up to the 1937 massacre in the first place)?

Hinche.


Latin American nations do suffer from over development in their main capital cities. And DR has not followed a different path. I agree.

If anything, the historical axis route linking SD to Santiago will only grow more extensive with further investments in transport, rail-service and port links between the South and North poles. The Eastern and especially Western portions have somewhat less play, especially the western land areas. But significant development in the medium term should not be ruled out in the Western land mass.

DR needs to develop at least two more sizable cities approximating populations of one million or so, to alleviate some pressure on the two traditional poles. Any ideas on where these might develop, Lautaro?

Here is an Idea Atabey.

San Francisco,

La Vega,

Puerto Plata

Nagua

Mao

La Romana.

Barahona,

San Juan.

These are good candidates for that proposal.

I think

San Francisco, La Vega, and La Romana are on their way there.

Atabey

Also

Moca and San Cristobal

But they are too close to the big metropolis.

I have an idea not just for two, Atabey, but three cities to develop:

1- San Juan de la Maguana (it would be most ideal if this place were to become the new capital of the country, something like a Brasilia case)

2- Monte Cristi

3- Barahona

The importance of the latter two would be that they would serve as alternative ports to Santo Domingo/Haina and Puerto Plata. Monte Cristi could be used for the maritime traffic to Miami/Bahamas/Turks and other northern ports (as well as Europe), while Barahona would serve the one to the Central/South American ports.

That would cover the Western portion of the nation from South to North. Almost a second vertical route similar to the SD-to-Santiago-PP route.

How about the eastern portion?


Written by: rokete, 5 Feb 2013 1:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo

Here is an Idea Atabey.

San Francisco,

La Vega,

Puerto Plata

Nagua

Mao

La Romana.

Barahona,

San Juan.



Thanks.


Strategic links like Lautaro was describing are key. Having Port facilities and future rail linkage are crucial requirements. The "cities" close to the major hubs of SD and Santiago will in all likelihood become "boroughs" of the major cities.

Atabey,

Having toured the east last month, I have to say that the biggest issues on this particular region are related to the distribution aspects I mentioned earlier, in the sense of the need to abandon the AI model and make the economic resources flowing to the current projects spill over the outlying communities surrounding them. Although I have to say that, if there's something yet to be done there, is to connect the sister provinces of Hato Mayor and El Seybo with the other well-off provinces of the region. Hato Mayor could be made as an alternative province to visit for the people getting to vacation in Samaná by the establishment of a regular ferry service with the town of Sabana de la Mar, while El Seybo needs to tap all its unused terrain for agrarian ventures outside the sugar and cattle ranching interests of the area.

With those two schemes you have in mind and the links from west to east, the DR should have a lot of future infrastructure projects on hand. Now the question remains: How to fund these? They will cost billions to achieve and maintain. We need to find the solution to the energy problem: too many non-paying "customers" Once the State cuts that subsidy cost down significantly, freed up revenues streams combined with private capital can be dedicated towards these important ventures.

The Ideal thing would be to decentralize the government.

But for now;
Making mega ports in Monte Cristi and Sanchez, also Azua or Barahona would be Ideal.

The east already has major ports in Boca Chica, Caucedo, San Pedro and La Romana. Air ports too.

What they need in the east is a connecting road through the center going directly to the Cibao region.

Conncting Higuey, El Ceibo, Hato Mayor, Bayaguana, Monte Plata, Cevicos, Cotui, San Francisco or La Vega.

And then EXPORT Agricultural products from the heartland of El Cibao.

Among other exports.


:)

Yes the ideal thing would be to rebuild Sanchez, to expand Manzanillo in (Monte Cristi) and Barahona ports.

For exports

For the millionth time we have to read about the so-called evils of the "all-inclusive model" in the DR. Very few locals benefit from them, we read over and over and over again..............

So, go ahead and get rid of the All-Inclusives.

How will the tens of thousands of employees directly and indirectly affected by the "All-Inclusive model" benefit when they lose their jobs???

And then what are these people gonna do to support themselves and their families? Become motoconchos or change guys............................like there are not enough of them already, LOL.

DRmaker

The all inclusive may go in the near future, but the infrastructure remains.

Tourism may be economically re directed in the future.

But, the infrastructure remains, for future generations.

DRmaker, are you attempting to suggest that there is no alternative model to the all inclusive?

I have not read on here of any viable alternative to the all-inclusive model.

I have mostly read here of replacing it with a model geared to the so-called "high-end tourist".

Well, that sounds really fine and dandy!

But the reality with that is that "high-end tourists" tend to go to places like Florida, U.S Virgin Islands, Grand Cayman, St. Martin, etc. The DR just does not have that kind of reputation.

So what kind of tourist does that leave the DR with?

The so-called "low budget tourist". Which to me are "middle-income" earners from the more wealthy countries - people who work at hard at their 'middle-income" jobs, earning enough to get by living in an expensive North American or European country.

I don't see what is wrong with these people saving up enough money to go on an all-inclusive vacation and treating themselves every two or three years.

Why should everything in this world cater to the "5 per cent" of the rich?