Very good responsible action by the Swiss

Some have no shame, why would baby doc still want the money after all ?? so far I am concerned is more the action and the message, 6.5 millions is a pitance and will not accomplish much

It is as hypocritical as symbolic. Hypocritical because the Swiss and the whole world know that the Duvaliers have plunderd the Haitian economy of billions of dollars for 30 years and, in spite of all our efforts, it took almost another 30 years for them to give us back only a grain of dust in the fortune those monsters have deprived the country.
Symbolic because they want to appear fair and just to the eyes of the planet, and you must be certain that their press is chest thumping with articles that state how understanding they are toward the economic situation that is prevailing now in Haiti. The worst part of it is that you'll find some innocents who will think that indeed they have done a good action. Yeah! The same way they have taken almost 70 years to reimburse the Jews after closing their eyes on their slaughter by the Nazis genociders.
No, we want all the money that have been stolen from us since that coward Boyer caved in before the French government, and I mean by that:

Our 21 billions and more dollars the French extorted from us; our Gold reserve that has been stolen and transported to the CITI BANK safes in 1915; the money presidents like Domingue, Paul Magloire, Duvalier and the military that succeded him have grabbed before they left for exile.
If they are really sincere, and everybody knows they're not, they would have started to give us back those funds instead of trashing us wrongfully. And the reason why they are trumpeting over all the rooves of the world that we are the poorest nation in the world, is because they know that they have deprived us of all of our wealth.
That is the reason why younger generations who do not know a rat about history, will be prompt to repeat those twisted lies. In fact, if we have become the poorest nation in the world, it is because we've been the ones that have been more robbed and dispossessed in any given time, and the trend is still continuing till while I am writing these words.

why US$6.5 million and not US$6.5 BILLION?

I do not know where the rest of the money is but it says here that $6.5 is all that was frozen and that will build a nice orphanage or small hospital

Dinero robado del bolsillo de un ladron al bolsillo de otros ladrones.
They are already looking for houses in Maimi, France, and the Dominican Republic.
Welcome the new millionaires !

oupla ou tounen , I thought you were dead !
It has been a long time you have not cursed me out !

Poor Baby Doc, first his mother curses him for marrying a mulatto girl, Michelle Bennett, then Michelle tells him he has no pants and divorces him, taking almost all his money with her, and leaving him with little left.
Then his bank accounts are frozen, and he is dead broke being supported by his present girlfriend.
He will appeal, and I believe his lawyers already have done so, but he will get nothing from the Swiss, and maybe his present Haitian girlfriend (Veronique Roy, dictator Paul Magloire grandchild) will throw him out as well. "No peace for the wicked".

Etiennc01,

I see that you are looking for good company. I am sorry to tell you that I do not understand where you stand, because in the situation where the Dominicans and the Haitians have found themselves intertwined, someone must be polarized in order to project to others which side of the struggle he is supporting.
I frankly have more respect for people like Lautaro, Generoso, Trujillo, Allumeusegeneroso than you. Why? Because in their hainous comments and statements, they let everyone know without ambiguity where they stand.
I will keep trading harsh words with them as long as they'll keep trashing my people, however, in spite of all, I will always satute their sense of belonging to their nation.
But you my friend, I still have to comprehend what is in it for you, and what is your ideal on the two side of the struggle?
No offense intended whatsoever.

@oupala07

I would disagree with your position about Etienn, you need to realize not everyone submit to the moto "you are either with us or against us" we have the rights to form our opinion, you came a little strong on him, why ?.

Etiennc tend to be very honest about waht he has to say regardless how hurtful it might be

I found it strange, you brought Allumeusegeneroso into the picture, this gentleman should be completely disregard as a freak mental case, every once in awhile, he will have his eureka momment, where he will say something worthwhile.

Well antonioj,

If you and/or our friend etienn is offended by my comments, I apologize to you and to him even though it was not in my intention to offend someone. The fact is I that I hate people that sit on the fence and look at the fight and try to blame the two sides for it. You must have the gut to say where it itches if you want someone to scratch for you, and I despise when our friend Etiennc01 is sarcastically trumpeting that Haitians and Dominicans are talking shit.
We are not talking shit, we are just expressing our feeling toward a neighbor that get on our nerves.
When I first join this site, I thought the Dominicans were a bunch of horse herders, but some have proved to me that they are very educated and in spite of their hatemungering language, they can practice a certain refrain. You have mentionned allumeusegeneroso, well my friend, if you take a little time to visit the "Le Nouvelliste" blog, you'll find out that we Haitians can be more hatemongers and vitriolic

in the event you can, of course, read french, you'll notice that we are ten times worse than the worse of your allumeusegeneroso. If there is something I have been raised with, it is not to lie and not to fear anyone even the Devil. Our friend etiennc01 is articulate and educated, but he must try to engage himself deeper in the fight for harmony between the two nations, I am pretty sure he is not going to tell me that is not what he wants (harmony between Haitians and Dominicans). I am a pragmatic and straightforward person with no sense of trickery, in other words, what you see is what you get. I have been born and raised to lead and not to follow, that is the reason why I show attitude. In fact, attitude doesn't mean that your are a bully, for most of the time, it only reflects leadership, and to be a good leader, you must be impartial and show attitude in due time.

Sorry to have offended you Etiennc01, but I'll still wait to see the leader in you.

Apology not needed, but accepted I saw you defending your cause with ferocity, and I applaud you for that ,however do not turn a blind eye when it comes to reality because it may change some of your perception.
Stereoptype is a sin that we all fall for somethimes I thought the same as you, I was wrong. I have visited both Haitian sites Le nouvelliste, I prefer Haitixchange pchardo a dominican poster, we have more nut case like allumeusegeneroso however they are not anti-dominican or anything they are just down right ignorant, stupid, and anti elitist.

etiennc01
I believe that etiennc is a Dominican-Haitian and has feelings for both sides, not only that he is a respected professional and a good person.

Well you all know what they say about the Swiss ...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNo8ld7ak8w&NR=1

With this little money the Swiss authorities are insulting the people of Haiti is like a slap on the face of poor people.
Poor countries like Dominican Republic and Haiti deserves better respect than that. The Duvalier and Trujillo families destroy our two countries economies and took billions of dollars out and nothing happens and nobody ever care about that.

I wold like to see Haiti and DR in a better financial situation, I hope one day will be peace among us, we are brother and neighbors and we need to defend each other form dictators and predators like those families.

Even if some people from both countries don't like the idea of peace among Haiti and DR we need Haiti and Haiti needs us as well, and we are bond by history and more. When that happens we are going to have progress and better education and health.

Better education is what we both need.

Lets hope they go after Leonel and his cronies money in the future.

Jim,
Point well made....

Am I missing something....

The Courts did mention frozen DIVERTED PUBLIC FUNDS, so I say DIVERT BACK TO THE PUBLIC to the People of Haiti.
No wonder the Swiss have such a strong banking system, ever wonder how much DIVERTED so called PUBLIC FUNDS / MONIES from other World Political swindlers are part of Swiss bank assets ?

WHO SAYS CRIME DOESN'T PAY......BIG TIME.

oupala as you can see antonioj and roso have clarified my true mission.
I use humor, and all othere tools and resources available to me to interpert the cause of the Haitian Dominican conflict and what should be done to solve it.
I do not have any agenda , I have a mission to resolve the conflict betwen Haitians and Dominicans
Conflict is actual or perceived opposition of needs, values, and interests.
When two parties with perceived incompatible goals seek to undermine each other's goals seeking capability like some of you routinely do in this forum some adult mediators need to clarify each parties goals values and interest and help seek a co_operation(Operate -living together)
The goals of many Haitians( cowards and con artists) is to force The Dominicans to absorb as many Haitians as possible through insults , threats.denunciations and what have you.They feel that road is safer instead of atacking the real culprits of Haiti's misery: vermines like Papa doc, baby doc

parasites like Cedras, Latortue, Aristide,and the useless Preval. All raised in poverty and millionaires now.
The goals of many Dominicans is to stop the flow of illegal Haitians invading their country, crowding their hospitals,menacing their society,and becominig a public nuisance.
Now you( some Haitians and some Dominicans posters) have shown a dialogue deficit and unwilligless to have adult approach to the conflict . You ( Haitians Dominicans)have raised the decibel of insulls (you. yourself call the Dominicans Devils)
A behavior adjustment is needed and this is why you have seen elders posters devising ways to address the conflict.
Many ways we ca address a conflict:
Accomodation: forcing one party to surrender its goals if the are not justified
Avoidance: ignoring the conflict hoping that it will go away
Collaboration:find a mutually beneficial solution
Compromise: find a middle ground in which each party is satisfied

Some political leaders on both sides have tried avoidance , like there is no coflict.it is only a figment of our imagination
I do not think this is the best approach, That will lead the Dominican people to become radicalized when pushed too far to take matters in their own hands.( I mean :resorting to all-out violence)

"Written by: JimHarrington, 16 Aug 2009 10:29 AM
From: United States
Lets hope they go after Leonel and his cronies money in the future.
"
They say we should never say never, well I am saying it NEVER, NEVER. It will not happen, you are not dealing with a tin pot dictactor, but with very sophisticated bunch of indivuals

I blame the European for lending money to corrupt leaders knowing that money will return back to Europe. The European know that a "forever debt" allows them to keep extracting resources from third world countries (like it is happening in Africa).

This "lent money" is not going into expanding means of productions but instead they go into patching eroding infrastructure (hiring of foreigners) and the remaining money to contractors and politicians.

I also blame the Media for brainwashing the people into accepting these corrupt governments as if corruption is "an acceptable disease of the Republic". It is time to overthrow this type of government, cut dow the humanity working for this dinosaur, and place a dictatorship loyal to the Constitution!

6.5 millions ? In the 90's one of his lawyer offer 50 millions to let the pursuit.

What a shame ....

Oupala there are about best an estimate between 1 and 1.5 millions Haitian migrants in DR. Do you know has recent in 1912 the Haitian governement deported a bunch arab refugees?. President Michel Cincinnatus Leconte orders them to leave Haiti.

Just imagine President Leonel asking the Haitians to leave, This is just to let to you know that, Haitians are no saint, and if the situations were reversed we would have had animosity against the Dominicans too invading our country.

Antonio, the arabs return after....

@ Incognito, 16 Aug 2009 5:09 PM
From: Canada, Montreal
Antonio, the arabs return after....



Once theywere ordered deported Arabs, fearing for their lives after some attempted to blame them, some went into hidding in the country side, some flee to Cuba and South America. Many later return; some change their last names.

Antonioj

I am not powdering neither comforting you when I said that I understood the Haitian migrants problem that your country is facing. I have already told you that if I was you the Dominicans, and I speak uniquely for myself, I'd be as pissed as you are, and that I'd be the first to ask for the deportation of those poor fellows that are transforming your country image into a fourth world one.
I, myself, would have been pleased if your government could expulse every single one of our peasants and send them back to plow their land. Because those assholes are playing innocents and they certainly understood that by listening to speculators that bribe them into cutting their trees for charcoal, they are reducing our moutains into a pile of dust and that nothing would be able to grow when the land become desertified.
So, even if I can't close my eyes and turn my head on the kind of treatment they are being the subject on your soil, I am not going to be tender with them, because

look at how obedient and docile they look on foreign land, but if they were receiving the same harsh treatment from genuine haitians, there would have been a lot beheading East of your border. Those fellows must understand that there are international laws that rule the relations between countries and they can't violate them at will without paying the consequences.
Once again they must understand that if they destroy their own land, how come they expect another nation to accept them to come and destroy hers.
As for the Arabs, we the 95% of Black Haitians have not kicked them out as you said, it was the mulatto elite which did not want to have any competition and which was looking disdainfully down on them that tormented them at such a point that they fear for their lives and escape from those racists. In those times, the mulattoes were exchanging the political power among themselves at will and the negroes majority had no say in the socio political situation of its own country.

About $2 million should be given to professional assassins to rid this world of this scumbag once and for all. Justice for ALL.


The fact that the f-ing bastard is still breathing turns my f-ing stomach. All my Haitian millionaires, gangstas and whatever...


Shoot that bastard. He's an affront to all who wallow in misery in Ayiti.

oupala count me on the 5% so watch your mouth I am Haitian

Kmnupe,

Good point....
Where I grow-up in South Central Los Angeles, California the Afro / Black-America have been victimizing each other for over 80 years plus then blaming DA WHITE MAN as an excuse not to better them selfs, when the REAL VICTIMS WHERE THE FATHERLESS CHILDREN, in my Neighborhood alone over 90% of my Black Friends didn't even there real fathers, in fact the Birthdays and Christmas Holidays was the worst. I remember my Friends telling me how lucky I was having both Parents, and to think the DR is experiencing the SAME BULL-SH-- for the same amount of time.

Thank GOD I'm in a GOOD MOOD.

LOL! Jokes aside. Serious matter.

@: antonioj,

Let's talk about your father.

Uhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


With the new banking laws...LOL taking effect...

let's seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee who has what!!!!

tonyj and gille gilles from Poutinville are going to meet for a rumble on the 401 hiway between Toronto and Poutinville and the loser has to shovel the snow in the others driveway for the coming winter ...........which is coming very soon and it will be one of the worst in many many years....Gentleman start your snowblowers !

FredCDobbs,

Oooh man! For the kind of summer we are living now, I don't think we need an early arrival of the Winter. We had no sunny days at all during June and July, and so far, it looks like August has decided to allocate us a few of them, but we have hardly an average 3 out of 7 days of sunlight for this month. And instead of being a little bit cooler as usual for this time of year, we are cooking in sometimes 32 and 40 degrees Celsius burst of heat waves.
As for the snow, last winter we received quite a bit of the white stuff, but the amount was still below the average and normal winter, and I don't think, according to the experts forecast, we will get a much this year, which will be a good damn' thing.

Ice scrapers at 50 paces......may the the best man win

FredC, Monsieur Poutin keep following me around like a hound dog, now he wants to know about my father, this is such a general question, I am not sure what to make of it. I will answer his question with 2 questions of my own.

1. Why are you interested to know about my father
2. Can you be more specific

antonioj,
be careful with INSPECTOR CLOUSEAU who wahts to know about your father !

MODERATOR,


Is there any reason why my post highlighting the fact that all ethnic groups that formed Haiti have blood on their hands,

WAS DELETED?

Well If I was president of Haiti I would let those 6 millions... laughing in people face. It's take 23 years for 6.5 millions... I dont think this will pay the lawyer that we payed

I agree with the moderator. Even though you had no real malevolent intention in your statement, some could interpret it the wrong way, and think that we Haitians are blood thirsty animals. If the Haitian Negro has become a killer, it is not his fault : he has been the victim of the most inhuman condition a human being could impose on another one.
Did you know that the mildest penalty a slave, in the ex colony of St Domingue, was exposed to was to have all his teeth broken slowly and one by one with a little hammer that his or her master used to carry in his belt?
Did you know that, in order for the 30 000 mulattoes of the Southern and Western provinces of Haiti, in order to be able to defeat our first and only King Henri Christophe, they parked a big chunk of their negros on their Plantations and armed the thousands of them who stayed faithful to their masters'sons for the war effort, and to keep the others from leaving those plantations? Most of the Western/Southern army was manned

Black were buried Alive each first day of the year.

It's sad, story only show Petion as a Hero and Christophe like a monster... He wasn't so bad. If when petion die he had take the whole country of Haiti I dont think today 60-70% o the population would no be able to read. The first thing that Boyer did: Close schools

What do you think the Haitian Negro had in mind after more than two centuries spent under torture, cruel whipping, fire immolation, supplice of the wheel (where the slave was tied to a wheel of a wagon and had all his limbs broken with and iron rod). These constitute a small number of the dozens of ways the White and the Mulatto or even the Negro slave owner used to treat his Negro slave. In the St-Domingue colony in those times, it was allowed to hug an animal, but not a negro.
So what do you think they had in mind for the whites and the mulattoes officers traitors who joined the French invading task force? They rightfully slaughter the whites.
The mulattoes elite was smart enough to faking a rally with their ex slaves brethren , and those idiots were fool enough to have let them live, and they're still paying the price for that unforgiving mistake.

Even in the recent days, they said to the arabs to leave the country, really sad. I hope one day someone will see that Christophe was one of the Greatest .. Well a proud man his still a proud man, he suicide before He see that they will take his kingdom. I respect this.

Cap-Haitien was one of the most beautiful city in América and today ...

Because they were prompt thereafter to show their gratitude by plotting the slaughter of our Liberartor and to wage a civil war against the rightful successor of Jean Jacques Dessalines (Henri Christophe) whom they finally defeated with the help of the United States.
After defeating Christophe, they ruled the country with an iron fist, eliminating anybody who dared oppose their will and thirst for hegemony.
They placeed mulattoes Generals and officers in the army Head Quarter, and they were prompt to march against and quell bloodily and mercilessly any rebellion by either any other black generals or some other warlords who dared to defend the masses. Furthermore, that same mulatto elite, used to use the army in order to dictate their policy to the Negroes President.

That is the reason why we had so many civil wars, because the Northern and the Southern Black Generals were in constant warfare against them, but since the mulattoes were staunchly supported by the Unitede States, France and Germany, they always defeated the negroes generals and/or warlords who have the support of nobody. And that is the kind of war that has been going on for two hundred years and which is still simmering today. This war has nothing to do with hatred between Negroes and Mulatoes, but between a greedy and wealthy mulatto/negro elite and the overwhelming majority of the Negroes population which has never got its share of its inheritance.

To go back to your comment, there are some nations and population that spilled blood rightfully (they had to defend themselves against murderous agressors), and there are others that have committed crimes against mankind by wiping out innocent and/or underarmed and peaceful ones. In which side of that objective line do you think history will place the United states, the Spaniards, the French, the Brits and the Portuguese which almost anihilated a new race and subject close to 20 millions africans to the most barbaric treatment the world has ever witnessed?Yes, we the Haitians Negroes have blood stained hands, but it was because we were pushed to the brink of extinction and despair first by Europeans, second by our own brothers and sisters, how did you want us to react? Like today?

OUPALA,

My post didn't get into the depth of why the brutality existed in the country, but more or less spoke of the betrayal of the African by the African.

We can't excuse people in these modern times when they conspire with the so-called oppressor against their own and continue to do so for material gains.

At what point do we stop seeing ourselves as victims and accept that our destiny ( not only referring to Haitians) is in our hands?

Wouldn't you agree that we've done enough to undermine each other?

I'm surprised that you agree with this CENSORSHIP when you come out batting full-swing.

Oupala where did you get the idea that the mulattre elite was responsible for the expulsions of the arabs please share your information, I will gladly accept the facts. The reason is the arabs were very poor and not considered a threat to the status quo.

@kmnupe,
I do not agree with the censorhip, I think your comment was within the realm of normalcy, by the way I agree wholeheartedly with your what you said

• 1890-1903: The migration continues. Shunned by the elite, Arabs head to the countryside, where they peddle textiles on the streets and open businesses. They are said to have introduced the concept of ''credit'' in Haiti.

• 1912: Haitian President Michel Cincinnatus Leconte orders them to leave Haiti. He later dies in an unexplained explosion in the national palace. Arabs, fearing for their lives after some attempted to blame them, flee to Cuba and South America. Many later return; some change their last names.


Here is your answer antonioj. In those times, you know who and what the elite was, and President Cincinnatus Leconte wasn't a negro but a mulatto. So, the masses did not go after the Arabs, but the elite that was looking down on them and was jealous and envious at how they were interacting positively with the rest of the population. I know what I am saying because my mom who was an orphan at the age of six was raised by one of those middle eastern families.

Oupala
"The migration continues. Shunned by the elite, Arabs head to the countryside"
here's the defintion of "shunned" (To avoid deliberately; keep away from) I failed to understand how the mulatto elite instigate their expulsion.

Check your facts he was not a mulatto as we know it in Haiti, a grimo per se. Beside he was a direct descendant of Jean Jacques dessalines.

Here are some facts for you my friend.
"
During his short tenure, anti-Syrian resentment continued. The economic crisis was blamed on those foreigners who in a relatively short time had managed to control most of the small businesses in the capital and certain big cities.
"
http://www.haitianmedia.com/index.php/100

kmnupe,

“We can't excuse people in these modern times when they conspire with the so-called oppressor against their own and continue to do so for material gains.”


If you have read me well you’d have understood that the whole Haitian family is divided not by a racial, but a poverty and/or wealth line reinforced by, in a lesser way, a slimmer line we can dub “education line”. Since the early French and colonial time, there have always been slaves owners in the three colonies’(Spanish and French) social ethnies (white, mulatto and negro). After our independence, and the slaughter our first Emperor, those whites, mulattoes and negroes slaves owners kept their plantations with the slaves who were living on them and who had nowhere else to go. Then those ex slaves went from being slaves to domestics farmers who were profoundly attached to their ex masters families and properties.

It was those domestics and their offspring, along the centuries, who have always helped their masters keep a tight control over any other free spirited negro or mulatto group that really wanted to create a country which would have included everybody, even the 95% of the population that have been left behind.
So, my friend, we are not seeking for excuses, we are saying how things were and still are and why they were and still are the way they are, for if there is a group that has always looked after its own selfish interest, it is that tiny white/mulatto/negro elite, and I can’t blame the 95% percent of the remaining black majority for all the blood spilled, because, by being kept under threat, in a constant state of obedience, they were conditioned to blindfully obey their ex masters on the land of whom they were still living, and by slaugthering them from time to time when they were pushed too much around.

Antonioj my friend,

You are a charming (the american way) fellow, and this is the reason why I am going to get off our debate bus right here.

Antonio read this, page 330


http://books.google.ca/books?id=Z....v=onepage&q=arabe&f=false

"Written by: Incognito, 18 Aug 2009 5:35 PM
From: Canada, Montreal
Antonio read this, page 330
http://books.google.ca/books?id=Z....v=onepage&q=arabe&f=false
"
Thanks good read, I still do not see any tangible proof that the mulattre was responsible for the expulsions of the Arabs, I still need to be educated, I am keeping an open mind here folks.

My friend kmnupe,

This one's for you. Take a look at it and you'll understand why we black people are at each other throat for the delight of the white man. It will also explain to my domincan cousins why most of them are rejecting their african ancestry.

An image worths one thousand words, doesn' it.

Sorry, I forgot the link, here it is:

http://www.wat.tv/video/alienatio....oirs-americains-1fiqn_1dkd8_.html

Great link oupala. thanks a lot. Even in our Country Haiti, my father told me when he was a little boy, If Santa's wasn't white our verry lightskinned the kids would say it's not Santa... In a Black country !

Great link again.

It will always be a pleasure incognito. Keep the faith my friend, on day our people will be really free.

OUPALA,


Thanks for the link. When you throw RACE and COLOR in the mix, things get complicated no doubt.


However, let's take a look at Francois Duvalier's NEGRITUDE movement.

What's the discernment when it comes to a Negro who hobnobs with Mulattoes and at the same time despises many in that group.

Then, the same negro who purports to uplift African-ism unleashes a "Black" vicious militia against a mostly "Black" population?

Yes, the issues are deep, but at the end of the day, these so-called negros just thirst for power and wealth.

Brother, I truly respect your conversation, but I believe "CHAK KLOUKLOU KLERE POU JE' YO"

Haitian proverb for "EVERYONE IS OUT FOR SELF".