Written by: juanb, 18 Jan 2010 2:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The rebuilding of Haiti is not the responsibility of The Dominican Republic. Yes, we should help in any way possible, but in order for the country to emerge from the ashes an entire restructuring is necessary. There must be laws. There must be observance of laws. There must be honesty in government. There most be a change in the thinking of the rich. There must be money spent on education. There must be money spent, transparently, to develop industry. The populace must be taught respect for all, not just those few with money. The government must develop a plan for development for the future, not just respond to today's emergencies. The.........
Hey wait a minute. Which country on Hispaniola was I talking about? I'm confused........
From: Dominican Republic
Yes, well said Preval ,and Im sure that once your through tanning yourself in the Dominican sun , you will set the example and be the first one to pick up a shovel and start digging something other than the grave of your own political career .
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
Extraordinary how people always want to blame the leaders who have been properly elected for the sins of the country ..In Haiti,where there is no such thing as social equity , 99% of the population earn less than 300 dollars a year and live on a day to day basis while the other 1% live in complete luxury, have beautiful homes in Paris and Casa de Campo and New York and care nothing for the 99%.
How can anyone govern properly with such an imbalance of wealth ? Who would want to lead such a country ?? What can the leaders do without appropriating the assets of the super elite.??
From: Dominican Republic
Ric,
Thats like asking a young beautiful prostitue why she would want to sell her body to a fat old man for 20 bucks . Im sure the president of the poorest nation in the western hemisphere stands to earn a little bit more than the other 99% just for showing up with a tie on .Nobody (especially Uncle Sam) expects him to anything except sit there and be a puppet king until Daddy finally comes home to run the familys affairs the way they should be handled and it looks like big daddy has come home . My question to you is why wouldnt he want the damn job? It beats driving a motoconcho.
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
HE is the elected President and has to be there until another President is elected and the USA has said already several times they are not there to act as an alternative government or to take over Haiti .
From: Dominican Republic
And surely you believe what the U.S goverment sells and tells you lol . They told you they were not going to raise your taxes as well lol . Where is Vivacuba when you need him lol..
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 4:11 PM
From: United States
I just finished watching Mr. Preval's biggest threat national conference which was broadcasted by all the mainstream media outlets here in the U.S., yes, Wyclef Jean, got national air time in the U.S. to talk about his vision for Haiti and his charity that has found itself in some sort of trouble lately.
Mr. Preval, nor any other leader in haiti or even some world leaders get their press conference broadcast live in American tv, so as you might know this guy has some great influence.
In short, Jean's vision right now is to massively evacuate Haiti's capital 2.5 million people and set them up in tents around the country. According to him, this will facilitate with the cleaning process and the rebuilding of the city. More interesting is that Mr. Jean asked some countries to take thousands of his people, thereby creating a Haitian exodus to relive Haiti of its ills at this point. They will come back to their homeland right after housing is built for them.
He did not mentioned
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 4:17 PM
From: United States
the Dominican Republic in any of his comments, nor did he asked the DR for receiving his people during this time of horror. I do not know much about Mr. Jean's political positions, but if this conference was any indication, he is ready to step in the lime light and try to fix this devastated country.
i think that Haiti and the DR political issues have seen the worst of their days and things are bound to get better. I am happy to see the Haitian president be conciliatory and even humble, kneeling to the goodwill of the DR. I am proud to be Dominican due to the way the country has responded, however, at times I fear that the superiority complex of some will simply grow, blinding them ever more.
Finally, there have been reports that Haiti will be sitting on more than a billion dollars to rebuilt the country about 10 months from today. People are planning on recalling all Haitians to return and work in the construction of their country. This is great for the DR.
From: United States, New York/Mayaguez/cabo rojo
I believe that Haiti is being a little too expectant of the DR in this matter. Although it is unfortunate that this natural disaster has caused to much chaos and death, the DR can only do so much. There are plenty who are donating millions of $ and DR is doing what it can. DR is not in any way responsible for rebuilding Haiti and I believe that may be what these corrupted government officials are looking for.
I honestly feel bad for the DR because no matter what they do they are in the wrong. I think that DR has done a tremendous job on stepping in and doing what they can to help the Haitian people, however, we must remember that the DR has issues of it's own. Their flag doesn't say DIOS PATRIA Y LIBERTAD for nothing. Haiti must learn to stand on it's own two feet and use this situation to their advantage but not by trying to exploit the help of others....
From: Dominican Republic
A billion dollars will not even begin to solve the Haitian nightmare Dag . For real, if thats all they have a year from now then they are better then screwed .
Again, after the lights and CNN cameras have turned away from all of these well intentioned mother teresas , lets see how many of the 99% of the Haitians that were poor and sick before the quake are doing 5 to 10 years from now as a result of all this charity and what thier social and economic status is ? How the hell is this great for the D.R ? DO you actually believe that the 3 million Haitians tha have fled to the D.R in search of a better life that consists of maybe 1 meal a day instead of no meals a day while living in construction sites are going to give that up to return to thier homeland where they wont even be able to drink from a river or gnaw on a chicken bone? Who is going to care for these people and provide for them in the interim during the rebuilding ?
Written by: EDITOR, 18 Jan 2010 4:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Please stay on topic.
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 4:39 PM
From: United States
hearbeat, I hear what you are saying and you should notice that i say more than, meaning that what ever money they will have is far greater than what they have to day. All i know is that they will be sitting on billions of dollars, according to the plans that I have been able to gather via my local representative, is that Obama is going to ask congress for billions of dollars and the international community to rebuilt haiti from the ground up.
Moreover, he indicated to me that there is the possibility that Obama ease or eliminate all trading tariffs on haitian products such as, Mangos, textile, rice and other crops that they are able to produce. On top of this, its said that the Haitian government will be allowed to impose 1986 tariffs on a series of imports.
Now, the report about recalling Haitians to come back and work rebuilding their country, only looks to me as directed to those in the DR. think about it, if 500k go back, that is 500k less do deal with. Any number
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 4:40 PM
From: United States
will be good for the DR, don't you think hearbeat?
From: Dominican Republic
Neeeeeeever happen Dag!
From: Dominican Republic
Dag,
lets ponder this for a moment ! Haiti has always been in the U.S backyard as well as having always been one of the poorest contries in the world . Why then, does it take an earthquake for all these altruistic Mother Teresas to reach in thier pockets and smile in the cameras when all along they've (the U.S) had the resources to occupy i mean, rebuild and assist the poor and starving Haitians ? Its human nature brother . Its the ''whats in it for me'' clause.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 5:00 PM
From: United States, NYC
Haiti tests European response
Gavin Hewitt | 10:35 UK time, Monday, 18 January 2010
At every disaster you find emergency teams from Europe. In the Pakistani earthquake I flew in a German helicopter. The Swiss arrived early. I found the same covering the tsunami in Asia. The Italian teams, as always, proved they have some of the best rescue workers in the world.
So again this time in Haiti. There are Welsh firefighters rescuing a two-year old girl. Spanish and French teams have been tearing at the rubble at the Hotel Montana.
I
The Americans control the airport and they are setting up a military operation in Haiti so some of their military planes have landed first. That has infuriated the French. A plane carrying an inflatable hospital from France was diverted. The French Foreign Minister, Bernard Kouchner, complained the airport had become a "US annexe".
Such tensions, in my experience, are inevitable. The lesson of every disaster I have covered is that co-ordinatio
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 5:01 PM
From: United States, NYC
Such tensions, in my experience, are inevitable. The lesson of every disaster I have covered is that co-ordination is best done on the ground. It is not a role for ministers or bureaucrats hundreds or thousands of miles away. It doesn't work like that.
Now the EU's response is complicated by the fact that it is learning to live with new structures. It has a foreign policy chief in Catherine Ashton. She has said that "rebuilding Haiti is now a priority for the EU" There was also, in her public statements, the suggestion that she was "co-ordinating" the different activities of the European Union with the member states. Now there clearly is a role for the EU in planning for the long-term development of Haiti and that will be discussed at a meeting of development ministers today.
But there is a question as to what role the EU should play in coordinating emergency search and rescue and relief operations. Certainly the EU, as an institution, is not essential for rescue work to be ef
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 5:02 PM
From: United States, NYC
But there is a question as to what role the EU should play in coordinating emergency search and rescue and relief operations. Certainly the EU, as an institution, is not essential for rescue work to be effective. Nations have acted decisively and quickly without referring to international institutions. Iceland despatched 35 members of its search and rescue team. Canada has its Sea King helicopters in action. Brazilian rescue workers are in place. The Chinese had people in Port-au-Prince by 0200 on 14 January.
I suspect a dilemma here for the EU. There is a current obsession to be seen as a "player" on the world stage. This need, in part, lay behind the Lisbon Treaty. It is often easy for that desire to translate into wanting to act as if the EU were a state. It isn't. It has no military capacity. Even if the EU's military was under one command it would be hard to match the US with its aircraft-carrier, hospital ship, logistical power and its ability to deploy thousands of troops
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 5:05 PM
From: United States, NYC
I suspect a dilemma here for the EU. There is a current obsession to be seen as a "player" on the world stage. This need, in part, lay behind the Lisbon Treaty. It is often easy for that desire to translate into wanting to act as if the EU were a state. It isn't. It has no military capacity. Even if the EU's military was under one command it would be hard to match the US with its aircraft-carrier, hospital ship, logistical power and its ability to deploy thousands of troops while it is fighting two campaigns overseas. The fact that Europe cannot do that does not make it somehow weak or ineffective, as some have suggested.
The question is more where the EU should best put its energy. The EU may be most effective at coordinating medium and long-term development. Today it is set to announce 100m euros (£88m) in reconstruction aid.
I say have the Europeans concentrate on a long-term solution. And the French Guiana solution appears to me a very plausible one for the long-term
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 5:06 PM
From: United States, NYC
I would like to propose that the long-term option should include the nation of France making amends for their historical raping and pillaging of the people and nation of Haiti by offering a third of the department of Guiana in South America for a New Haiti to emerge. The African slaves that fought the French Army for liberation and won their War of Liberation in 1804 were later ostracized and required to pay-back huge sums in reparations to France in order to be recognized by the international Community in the 1800s. It took Abraham Lincoln and the American Civil War to finally establish diplomatic relations with Haiti. France gives Haiti a part of what you stole! Give Haiti and her people a chance at modernity. France should partition a third of French Guiana and it give to the Haitians as free state. Any reconstruction monies should go towards fulfilling that.
From: Dominican Republic
Ah Atebey,
Now we get a true glimpse of world history and a better understanding of how the west was won my friend . Unfortunatly ,this time the rest of the world was not as quick nor slick as WILLY , but this time the slaves were already there ! So please tell me again just how much these countries love the Haitians .
From: United States, NJ (M_ S Cibaeno 100%)
LF should pay attention to D.R. it looks like he's 100% into the Haiti agenda. One thing is to help your neighbor, the other is to forget your own house.
He put so much effort into becoming a regional leader that is ludacris, this guy could be so pathetic a times.
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 5:26 PM
From: United States
would have already.
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 5:26 PM
From: United States
heartbeat, trust me I understand your skepticism about the U.S. intentions. Even though i love the U.S. and think that is the greatest country on earth, i have my doubts as well. However, these doubts tend to disappear when i see the scope of the problem and the fact that the U.S. here is being held partly responsible for the lack of infrastructure and stability in haiti, due to its economy policies during the last 20 years.
I believe that the U.S. is honest about Haiti this time, i may sound naive, but the politics has been kept in the back burner and trust me that is a good sign.
As far as the DR, i also think that we can only benefit from reestablishing and reinvigorating our relations with Haiti. This will allow us to bring the immigration issue to the table without any pre-conceived notions and distrust between the sides. I know that there are people who are fearful of a new wave of Haitians to the DR, at this point i am not worried, because if it was going to happen, it
From: United States, Brooklyn
That is the first indication that Haiti will continue the way it has alway been... When their own president puts the weight on the international community... Soon enough the IC will tired of the haitian helplessness and will be justified in leaving...
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 5:27 PM
From: United States
would have already.
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 5:32 PM
From: United States
MS. Jersey, it is clear that that you do not understand the meaning of politics. Look it up and you will be surprise to find out that our dear LF is acting within the realms of a politician, which BTW is what he does for a living.
Atabey, the sum that the French got from Haiti is 150 million gold francs, which by today monies will be equal to more than 7 billion dollars.
Mr. Jean proposed your idea, which I posted in details above. He wants certain countries to create temp camps until the country is rebuilt or set camps on the interior of the haiti.
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Ms Jersey,
I don't think this event has led Leonel to forget his own house. Truly he's been disinterested from the jump! Driving down the street of my house in Gurabo there are potholes big enough to bury small adults. The RD has its own infrastructure problems. This earthquake and Leonel's relief effort is genuine, but it does serve to also distract the attention of the Dominican people from Quisqueya's own issues. But that's another topic for another day.
With regard to Preval's call for aid to go beyond curing wounds, I think he's right..... It should go beyond and result in an increased presence of the UN. Not that their effective, but there should be some international body put on the ground to work with the Haitian government during rebuilding to do the accounting. I want to see what my taxpayer dollars are being spent on.
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 5:37 PM
From: United States
Atabey, as a Dominican who makes a six figure salary and pay high taxes in the U.S. I DO NOT GIVE IT SHIT, that the French are somewhat offended by the U.S. involvement and taking control of the situation. They are equally at fault as nature is in bringing such disaster to these people.
We here are taking the brunt of the economic hit on our economy which is weak as well, to go there and help, while the EU is still trying to mobilize in decisive way. SHAME ON THEM.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 5:38 PM
From: United States, NYC
dagtan,
Good. 7 billion and land would go a long way to helping the people of Haiti. Thanks for the info.
And dominicanheartbeat, how about the Frenchies steppin' up?
From: Germany, Stuttgart
I disagree with establishing temporary camps (read refugee camps) in other countries. What does this accomplish? Getting the Haitians out of the way so that rebuilding can continue? Hogwash.
The Haitian capital was destroyed, not the entire country. Move the survivors of the 2 million that were estimated to have lived there out into the Haitian countryside. Build tent cities there. Start registering survivors, account for people, start identifying people with skills, people that can help in the rebuilding effort. The UN is at least adept at building refugee camps. It's had plenty of practice in Africa. And I would think it would be easier to move aid from the capital's airport out into the campo with two to three key roads cleared. There's no need to move Haitians out of Haiti. All you do with that course of action is put the burden of care on other country's civil and social systems. Keep the survivors in Haiti, push the aid to them there....in the campo.
Written by: Belly, 18 Jan 2010 5:44 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Dagtan
The intentions of USA towards Haiti may seen true now but in 6 months from now to me is all back to business as usual.Or should I say the "What's in it for me" policy that has been in place since 1804. I 'm not being pessimist I just feel like I have seen this movie before and especially when promises are coming from a president that promise the Iraq war to end in 1 year and Health care was going nowhere if there wasn't a public option. I hope they are serious now but I'm seeing too many cooks in the kitchen trying to gain from the disaster.
From: Dominican Republic
Dag,
True Dag, to the degree that I bitch about my government and its policys, nobodys enjoys the blessed freedom to open his pie hole more than I . Maybe that makes me a hypocrite , but we still do live in the greatest country on earth my brother . That said , I cant help help thinking that If uncle W. were still in office that the response to the Haitian crisis would be little different than that of Katrina ? You know where Im going with this, but please dont whip me for playing the '' its a black thing'' card . Just as those rich Cubans in Miami helped keep Georgie snug in D.C as well as the embargo in place, do you think that the ''black Haitian vote has something to do with Obamas sense of urgency ? HMMMMMM.
And for the record, my comment is only putting the integrity of our president in question , not the Haitian people .
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 5:49 PM
From: United States
Belly, I feel you brother, I have seen that movie before as well, and as I stated on an earlier post, I think that this time it is a bit more honest than before. it is clear that the U.S. policies toward Haiti had been devastating and until they do not change those policies little is going to change.
All we can do is wait and hope.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 5:51 PM
From: United States, NYC
I totally agree dagtan.
The DR has been denigrated and made to take the majority " hit " for the Haitian dilemma. If its leadership isn't careful The DR will be devastated with the largest problems in its history. Social unrest could possibly lead to great civil unrest. I truly think that immigration/emigration should be part of the solution to Haiti's dilemma. A hold and wait strategy will only postpone a far greater catastrophe for the island of Hispaniola. Time for the big boys to make things right for Haiti. Will France and the Euros step-up? I'm a pessimist but hope I'm proven wrong.
Written by: dagtan, 18 Jan 2010 5:52 PM
From: United States
i hear you heartbeat, but i think that we Dominicans have a far greater voting bloc than that of Haitians and for the most part we get jack for it here in the states. Unless, you are thinking that the African-American community gives it shit what happens in Haiti, then we might have a conversation.
From: Germany, Stuttgart
All of you anti-Americans continue to down the U.S. when its doing the most there on the ground right now. If you don't believe in U.S. humanitarian goodwill, what do you believe in? I'm curious. The U.S. can't win for losing here. You all believe there's a master plan at works in the background. So how about you conspiracy theorists share you vision of U.S. underhandedness. What evil is the U.S. cooking up? Heartbeat stated yesterday that the U.S. is only helping so Bill Clinton can establish a land development firm in Haiti. I dare to ask what other conspiracies you all are thinking up, but I'd love to hear them. Entertain me.
From: Dominican Republic
Negro ,Have you and the Mrs. had your conak today ??? lol if not , start sipping .
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
Having read all these comments, I do not see that anyone disagrees with the concept of having an ongoing committee to oversee the immediate problems in Haiti and then the rebuilding for the future ..I doubt if anyone could dispute the right for the UN,Haiti, DR , Brazil as the largest UN peacekeepers there and USA as the largest financial contributor to be on that committee.
So all in all Leonel has done a good job in bringing people together ..and exactly who chairs the committee in the longer term is up to those countries participating but I imagine they will appoint a CEO for the job.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 6:00 PM
From: United States, NYC
: NegroDeLaBachata,
The Haitian dilemma is essentially the case of a nation and state that have never achieved balance, and the "balancing acts" have entered into a state of total collapse with this devastating event. Drastic events call for drastic measures sometimes, and I think this is one of those cases. Think out of the box, as they say. If several countries take in say 25K families, and the Big Powers institute revenue streams to allow these people to be able to set-up their lively hoods in distant and not so distant lands a great reprieve will the reconstruction effort gain. Plus it's not like the French have no land to offer the Haitian people. French Guiana is one place among several that could be considered.
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Atabey,
I hear you on the West stepping up. However, you don't think some of this fallout should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the Haitians? I mean really..... Haiti has been propped up for decades by international dollars. Free loot. 3 billion from the U.S. in the past 15 years. Billions more from other donors. You're telling me a nation the size of Maryland can't build something with that? There should have been an effective government in place. There should have been pre-positioned emergency stockpiles. There should have been first responders (zero in the capital). There should have been adequate hospitals. There should be adequate police and security forces (not drug gangs having free reign). There should have been professionals brought in to train a civil service.
C'mon....the Haitian government was asleep at the wheel. They deserve some of this blame. I don't expect Puerto Principe to be paradise, but it should have been better postured with the influx of dollars
From: Dominican Republic
It brings back to mind a picture of a Saddam statue being pulled down with old glory over his head in front of all the cameras .
Hey dad , are they gone yet ? No son, they are still here protecting our oil supply so the big bad osamas dont steal it .Go back to bed now .
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Ricardolito,
The Japanese and the Germans would need to be major players in the reconstruction effort too. Maybe not committee members, but as the worlds two greatest engineering nations I think their inputs would be of great use. Those two nations both have excellent infrastructures.
From: Dominican Republic
Yes , Cant you see just picture Willy driving the HAITIAN autobahn in his 2015 BEAMER . oooooboy...Keep pouring Neg ..Hasta manana si ADios quiere !
From: Dominican Republic
Of course the French would love to have Haiti back as much as the U.S would love to reclaim Cuba .
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Atabey,
Sending Haitians outside of Haiti is a slippery slope. The first thing folks are going to say is....."Well, the RD is next door. Too easy." The RD cannot handle an influx of refugees....of any number. That aside, you start sending droves of Haitians to other countries and they will NEVER return. Why? Because of the survivors....let's just call it 1.5 million until we get accurate numbers......having survived this tragedy and having nothing.....leaving that nothing for a better world, establishing new lives, have children, attain some normalcy, you say return.....you think folks will be lining up to get back to the hell they left? It won't matter that the capital is rebuilt and things are seemingly better. All they remember is hell, and you're asking them to return. That free ride out of Haiti is a Godsend. Not something anyone would easily relinquish.
From: Germany, Stuttgart
You know what Heartbeat, Cuba would probably love to have the U.S. back. Ask the Cubans who can hardly get bread or milk to eat on a daily basis....ask the women who rub handkerchief on whitewash walls and use it to powder their faces because they can't get cosmetics....ask the bloggers who get beat up and jailed for writing about the truth of the bearded one's lies....ask the musicians who get beat up and harassed for singing about the trespasses of the Cuban government.... Normal stuff we all take for granted. The Cuban people are starting to wake up from the Bearded one's experiment.
Written by: bearcat, 18 Jan 2010 7:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Juanb. When i first read your comments; "I thought another moron." This island is home to two disfunctionaly governments and the people of each needs to insure that the "rule of law" prevails, that children to educated, that the economy develop and that those in government do not steal the future.
It also appears that some on this island understand that we are all in this together. In truth it could have been the DR instead of Haiti and in that context you are the same. The propblems that effect Haiti effect the DR; the problem is the same, "government for the benefit of a few."
You can fix that. I am a foreigner would not if I could attempt to fix the problem for the both of you. You need fix it.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 8:10 PM
From: United States, NYC
Negrodelabachata,
Look I understand that what I propose is a far-far stretch for many people, but if you consider that few over populated areas have ever to my knowledge been put on sustainability without some form of mass exist from the concentrated areas, you'll have to give me at least some props for thinking outside the box. Just to offer as a comparison take a look at the history of another overpopulated Caribbean island, Puerto Rico circa 1900. When the USA kicked out the Spaniards and established their hegemony on the island one of the first observations was the overpopulated nature of the conquest. What to do? Some briefly considered shipping some Puerto Ricans to the far-less populated DR to the west. Very few did actually make the journey and so other considerations were put into the mix, including during the post-WWII years massive emigration to the US, especially New York City. Thus by 2010 there are as many descendants of Puertoricans living in the USA
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 8:20 PM
From: United States, NYC
as there are living on the island of Puerto Rico. Without the event and other far more sinister "solutions" ("sterilization" and "la operacion" (the operation) were used interchangeably) today Puerto Rico could very well have 8-9 million population on the island! As I've stated before, there is no way the USA or any other nation is going to allow millions of people to immigrate to its shores, so what's to be done? French Guiana appears to me to be one and only one of several points to consider for establishing such areas of immigration. Of course, one has to consider the peoples and governments of those areas and offer financial inducements to make the proposal salient or agreeable to the host. With some-yes billions- capital investments and some good will many Haitian families and their descendants can achieve what is plainly not achievable now in Haiti or for the foreseeable future: a real chance in life.
Written by: josean, 18 Jan 2010 8:25 PM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
LIE-onel Fernandez should stop beating around the bush and built a METRO in Haiti! Look how much it has done to improve the life of the average Dominican!
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 8:27 PM
From: United States, NYC
Hey, Josean is BACK!
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 8:29 PM
From: United States, NYC
Well, get into it, what do you think of my proposal, pretty far-fetched, no?
Written by: juanb, 18 Jan 2010 8:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti's history is of being ruled by the most corrupt, murderous, and vicious scoundrels. Unfortunately the leaders of the rest of the world have always believed that an influx of money would help to solve Haiti's problems. As we have seen, the monies donated have only gone to further entrench these ruthless despots. Nowhere in the world is the disparity between rich and poor as evident as in Haiti. To those of you who can only see conspiracy theories in the proposal for giving aid to Haiti, you may not be completely wrong. I chose to believe, however, that there are some really noble people stepping up to the plate who only want to do the right thing. If the entire slate is not wiped clean, no matter how much money is spent, Haiti will wind up being in the same horrific in ten years that it was in one week ago. Let us not forget that last week none of us, NONE OF US, would have changed places with any Haitian (other than maybe a few government officials). Why not?
And F the French
Written by: kmnupe, 18 Jan 2010 9:10 PM
From: United States, NYC
I've been reading these comments and find the conversations to be productive.
The poster who suggested that people be evacuated is more on point with what will have to be done.
There's no Haiti without Port-au-prince and I can't imagine the country side being able to sustain millions. Other cities like Cap-Haitien already have large populations. Gonaives has yet to recover from the hurricanes. Options are limited.
The best case scenario is what one poster suggested is a successful establishment of tent cities, but where? The country's terrain is rough and roads are not plentiful to carry workers needed to rebuild.
Written by: kmnupe, 18 Jan 2010 9:15 PM
From: United States, NYC
CONT"D
The more I write, the more I see the looming disaster. It will be very difficult to rebuild with the distraction of millions of extremely poor people.
If I were Dominican , I would support the evacuation of some people to wealthier and more spacious countries 200%.
If the country is ever rebuilt to satisfactory conditions, people will return. The memories of the Caribbean beauty and tranquility is etched in our minds and can never be forgotten.
...Then again, I may be wrong.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 10:47 PM
From: United States, NYC
When it came to Haiti, France was first a brutal colonizer, and then a usurious bully. Tunku Varadarajan on why it’s time for reparations.
As Haitians lurch destitute in the rubble, and as governments, churches, and NGOs do the best they can to bring succor to Haiti's hell, a vivid solution to the country's needs presents itself, one so obvious and irrefutable—so resonantly just—that it must be advocated with the greatest of energy: France must repay its colonialist debt to Haiti by paying for much of the island country’s reconstruction.
Haiti's chronic impoverishment began at its birth in 1804, when, having overthrown its French rulers in a bloody, 12-year slave revolt, the newborn nation was subjected to crippling blockades and embargoes. This economic strangulation continued until 1825, when France offered to lift embargoes and recognize the Haitian Republic if the latter would pay restitution to France—for loss of property in Haiti, including slaves—of 150 million gold francs
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 10:48 PM
From: United States, NYC
2
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 10:48 PM
From: United States, NYC
This economic strangulation continued until 1825, when France offered to lift embargoes and recognize the Haitian Republic if the latter would pay restitution to France—for loss of property in Haiti, including slaves—of 150 million gold francs. The sum, about five times Haiti's export revenue for 1825, was brutal, but Haiti had no choice: Pay up or perish over many more years of economic embargo, not to mention face French threats of invasion and reconquest. To pay, Haiti borrowed money at usurious rates from France, and did not finish paying off its debt until 1947, by which time its fate as the Western Hemisphere's poorest country had been well and truly sealed.
In this era of multibillion-dollar bailouts of private banking institutions, $22 billion should scarcely raise a Gallic eyebrow. But to Haiti, the sum would be a godsend.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 10:49 PM
From: United States, NYC
France must now return every last cent of this money to Haiti. In 2004, at the time of the 200th anniversary of Haiti's independence, the Haitian government put together a legal brief in support of a formal demand for "restitution" from France. The sum sought was nearly $22 billion, a number arrived at by calculations that included a notionally equitable annual interest rate. (For a full account of the calculation, read Jose de Cordoba's excellent news story in The Wall Street Journal, published on Jan. 2, 2004.) The demand was made by President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, a firebrand ex-preacher who was forced out of office by a violent uprising that February. His successors, Boniface Alexandre and Gerard Latortue, controversially chose to renounce Haiti's claim for restitution/reparations. (There was, of course, much pressure exerted on them by France, which had found Aristide's demand politically disconcerting.)
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Negro,
Your views make much sense to me. Haiti is still a big expanse, at least big enough to accommodate Port-au-Prince without saturating. Yes, I see no point in moving people out of country-what purpose exactly would that accomplish?
Haitians already proved once before that they could rebel and win, and I am sure they could do it once more. I don't believe extricating people would lead to any good solutions. Haitians are the only ones who clearly understand their situation and, as such, they are the only ones empowered to change it. They can only do that by staying at home and demanding and bringing about change. Anything else would only turn a proud and historically significant people into a welfare state; none of us wishes that.
MJEV.
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente
I only have one question about our beloved gringos moving next door
Are they going to be paying for this so called reconstruction thing in dollars or Gourdes?
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 10:51 PM
From: United States, NYC
This last act of renunciation weakens Haiti's legal case against France, notwithstanding the fact that the treaty under which France gouged 150 million gold francs from Haiti was clearly unconscionable and executed under duress. But this story is not one of law and legality alone, nor even one of wealth and poverty. (France's GDP is $2.85 trillion, while Haiti's is a mere $6.95 billion.) It is, rather, one of historical justice and political morality: No one can dispute that an extortionate and bullying treaty, concluded at a time when France was an imperial hyper-puissance and Haiti a friendless fledgling, is an ugly stain on France's national conscience.
The money involved is not a sum that will give sleepless nights to Christine Lagarde (France's finance minister) or Bernard Kouchner (its foreign minister) or President Nicolas Sarkozy. In this era of multibillion-dollar bailouts of private banking institutions, $22 billion should scarcely raise a Gallic eyebrow.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 10:55 PM
From: United States, NYC
But to Haiti, the sum would be a godsend.
More than that, however, this is money that is Haiti's own. As Haitians lie prostrate, buried under the rubble of their nation, France must do the moral thing, the just thing, the civilized thing: France must write Haiti a reparations check for $22 billion.
Tunku Varadarajan is a national affairs correspondent and writer at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a research fellow at Stanford’s Hoover Institution and a professor at NYU’s Stern Business School. (Follow him on Twitter here.)
22 billion would go a long way to resolving the Haitian situation. Germany has had to pay billions in restitution and reparations for the devastations it caused to the Jewish people and others during its hate filled delusions for World Control. I say France pay-up. It's about Time.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Negro,
Count me in as one of your supporters. You make a lot of sense to me.
MJEV.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
To those of you proposing evacuating thousands of Haitian families to other countries: do you really think for one minute that they will repatriate to Haiti? If you do, then you must be levitating and breathing some oxygen-depleted air.
If you take people out of the problem, then you are only guaranteeing problem perpetuity. Only Haitians can solve this problem, and no matte how much money outside world pours in, it will never be resolved until they themselves resolve to correct it. Period.
Look, US is effectively bankrupt, and no matter how well-intentioned we might be, we are financially unable to undertake burden some of you propose. We are closing schools and hospitals, and many of my acquaintances are losing their jobs....we are not the rich people we used to be. Haiti needs to be taught how to fish, then it must go out and catch fish and feed itself. They must not be entirely dependent on handouts from outside world.
MJEV.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 11:38 PM
From: United States, NYC
What If Haiti Can't Be Saved?
by Reihan Salam
Food and relief and American know-how may not be enough for Haiti. We may need to let its residents leave.
After the devastating earthquake that has leveled Port-au-Prince and led to the deaths of tens of thousands, the Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of offering temporary protected status to illegal immigrants from Haiti. The logic behind the decision is compelling. However strongly one might object to the fact that well over 100,000 Haitians are living illegally in the United States, deporting them now would be worse than cruel. Plagued by violence and poverty for most of its history, Haiti has been brought to the edge of anarchy. Sending Haitian workers home isn't exactly a death sentence. But it is troublingly close.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 11:39 PM
From: United States, NYC
Perhaps the best thing we can do is give Haitians an opportunity to build a better life elsewhere.
Temporary protected status is meant to last 18 months, during which time we can hope that some semblance of order will be restored. Even then, however, it's not clear that the Haitians who've been given a reprieve will be able to find decent jobs at home, let alone the kind of jobs that will allow them to support large extended families. Mark Schneider and Bernice Robertson of the International Crisis Group have argued that recovering from the earthquake will take at least a decade of intense effort. Somehow, Haitians living in the U S, and the over 9 million Haitians at home forced to endure lawless chaos before and after the earthquake, will have to find a more lasting solution.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 11:40 PM
From: United States, NYC
There is something about the power of grisly televised images that brings out the best in Americans. The U S government has performed admirably in Haiti so far, just as it did during the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami and the 2005 Kashmir earthquake.
Yet there are miserable corners of the world where cameras and correspondents are few and far between, and Haiti has been one of them for at least the past 15 years. Many have already said that America's callous indifference to Haiti's slow-motion collapse over this long and painful period is a national embarrassment. Given the deep problems that Haiti faces, however, it's not clear what the U S could have done that would have proven more effective than Bill Clinton's 1994 humanitarian intervention, which, like so many armed interventions, ended in failure and retreat.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 11:41 PM
From: United States, NYC
Perhaps the best thing we could do is go beyond temporary protected status and, working in concert with the European Union and other affluent countries and regions, give Haitians an opportunity to build a better life elsewhere.
In 2008, economists Michael Clemens and Lant Pritchett, both affiliated with the highly innovative Center for Global Development, published "Income per Natural: Measuring Development as if People Mattered More Than Places." Rather than measure a country's GDP per resident, they devised a new statistic called income per natural, "the mean annual income of persons born in a given country," including migrants who've left their native country in search of economic opportunity. So while the American-born Johnny Depp doesn't contribute to U.S. GDP per resident while residing in France, he does bump up its income per natural.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 11:42 PM
From: United States, NYC
As you might expect, poverty levels look very different for national residents and naturals, and the authors offer Haiti as a prime example. Clemens and Pritchett argue that income per natural demonstrates the tremendous power of international migration as a poverty-fighting tool. Moving from one country to another can dramatically improve your life chances, even without expensive investments in education. Incredibly, over a quarter of Haitian naturals who live on more than $2 a day, a global measure of extreme poverty, live in the US. It is hardly surprising that thousands of Haitians risk their lives to settle in the US and the Dominican Republic and many other countries besides.
There are literally dozens of countries across the world that are what Pritchett, in his provocative book Let Their People Come, calls "zombies." In the Old West, cities abandoned when the local gold mine dried up were called "ghost towns." Zombies are essentially ghost towns that you can never leave.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 11:46 PM
From: United States, NYC
The economic opportunities are all gone, but barriers to migration are just high enough that people are forced to stay put, almost as though they were walled in a penitentiary.Though we all want to believe that Haiti can eventually become as rich as successful as the U.S. or S Korea or Botswana, the sad fact is that some countries have been handed a raw deal by virtue of climate, resources, and the scarring effects of a cruel colonial history. It is possible that Haiti can't be saved. But that doesn't mean that Haitians can't save themselves, provided we start breaking down the walls that have kept them hemmed in.
Written by: Atabey, 18 Jan 2010 11:49 PM
From: United States, NYC
It should go without saying that the United States will not offer temporary protected status to illegal immigrants from every country in the world plagued by poverty and violence. The demand for the opportunity to work in the United States is overwhelming, and the economic downturn has not put Americans in a generous mood. But if we're serious about helping Haitians, we have to do something more than text $5 to the relief effort.
Reihan Salam is a fellow at the New America Foundation and the co-author of Grand New Party.
Some food for thought. The implications for DR are dire if Haiti can't get back and achieve something it hasn't in its history: a sustainable Nation-State position.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
This is the one time I want you guys to look up "HAARP Project."
From: United States
Glomarexplorer, Haitians should be relocated to French Guiana permanently and perhaps given an autonomous region or a slice out of French Guiana to form a new Haiti in South America since French Guiana is bigger than the entire island with a population only 230,000 and awash in jungle. Haiti on the island of Santo Domingo is a black hole. No other way to put it. Why waste the billions of dollars or euros to rebuild? If the international community really wants to help Haiti then they should buy up 1/3rd of French Guiana from France instead of relieving Haiti's debt and give it to the Haitians on a silver platter. The reality is that earthquakes are going to hit the island again and if they are stronger than 7.0 infrastructure will be destroyed again. There is no way to earthquake proof against earthquakes beyond a certain magnitude. Look what happened to Mexico City in the 85 or San Francisco/Oakland in 89.
Written by: telemeco, 19 Jan 2010 8:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
ATABEY:
I know you mean well, when you ask for France to give the haitian a state in French Guiana, which you are right about it population it about 250,000
But here is a problem with that, French Guiana is where Europe and France have it Space explorarion site,
Second, French Guiana is Rich with forest all around, the Amazon in Brasil, and Venezuela,,,sending haitian there is like sending terminate to destroy the lung of the planet, then you will be greating a tragedy for the human specie as a whole, they will deforest the French Guiana and them will more likely step into Brasil and do the same.
Best choice is to send them to SENEGAL, the president already offer it to haitian and it is already a dry land just like they are use to.
Written by: josean, 19 Jan 2010 9:02 AM
From: United States, Dedicating 4 more years to fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia
"sending haitian there is like sending terminate to destroy the lung of the planet'
Now Haitians are insects!
Nothing like kicking people when they are down so you can feel superior!
¡Que Dios te perdone y te cure de esa enfermedad mi hermano!
Written by: telemeco, 19 Jan 2010 9:02 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
From: United States
continued....
New Orleans is the perfect example of how long reconstructions can take. It's been about 5 years since Katrina and a large portion New Orleans remains ruins. This a city in the supposedly richest nation on planet that has hundreds of billions of dollars at it's disposal. Compare that to Haiti which is one of the poorest and you will see that it not realistic to rebuild Haiti. Haitians need to start a fresh on a greener pasture. Here is the other problem. While Haiti is in reconstruction mode which will take a decade or more to complete if ever...homeless impoverished Haitians are going to flood into the DR by the millions. They have nothing to lose at this point and nothing to look forward to in Haiti. The Dominican Republic is going to become the South Africa of the Carribean. The DR of the future is going to make Jamaica and Trinidad look like paradise. Dominicans on the island are f-ked.
Written by: Pepe32, 19 Jan 2010 9:57 AM
From: Dominican Republic
"Anything else would only turn a proud and historically significant people into a welfare state; none of us wishes that."
I guess you don't think Haiti is already a welfare state...
You all can twist your minds in a PC knot ,but the main problem in the nation formerly known as Haiti is HAITIANS .You can pump all the billions and trillions into it but the main resource of a nation is its people and in that respect Haiti is a virtual desert. The Guyana and Senegal propositions are probably the best bet for the inhabitants of the western part of Hispaniola especially the Guyana option because they would be under French tutelage and support .The small group of progressive thinking Haitians could be incorporated into DR and we would have one island .
If any company or enterprise had as many absolute failures as Haiti has had it would have been closed down a long time ago!
Written by: Atabey, 19 Jan 2010 10:41 AM
From: United States, NYC
Telemaco,
I've stated that French Guiana and Senegal and any other country willing to offer Haitians an opportunity to reconstruct their lives is in the cards. And I agree with Mandouafrica that financial rewards should grease the palms of those willing to allow Haitians immigrate to their lands. The international community will be tied up in Haiti for decades; I recently read a piece pointing out how in the most promising of cases a 10 year duration is but the first phase in the recovery act, think about that 10 years! Haitians need options and having the international community on board for a transfer of population into largely unpopulated French Guiana is an excellent idea the more I think about it. It should be done gradually, with planning and construction beginning this year and getting the go-ahead from the various international financial centers, The World Bank, The Club of Paris, etc. The funding can happen, as this will easily be absorbed into the debt
Written by: Atabey, 19 Jan 2010 10:50 AM
From: United States, NYC
Page 2
structures of the various Big National Economies. France has an economy of 2.8 trillion and can easily manage to put 22 billion into its long-term debt payment scheme. As I've told others on this site, the great bail-outs have cost truly much more financially, ING, Citi, the Auto Industry, etc. Here we're talking about a nation of 10 million. And as for a potential problem with de-forestation, get real, the reason why Haitians cut down their forest is directly related to what fuel they use for cooking. In French Guiana the planning stages will take care to introduce gas or electrical supplies to meet their cooking needs. I'm truly amazed that more people would not take this choice, if offered to them. In fact, there's a nice piece of writing I read yesterday on the greater value of immigrants over those left behind in what amounts to open prison zones. If Haitians don't have other options on the table, future Haiti will resemble to a far greater degree that open prison.
From: United States, New Haven, CT
We have a duty not as Dominicans but as civilized Human beings to help put during this crisis.
1. If it happened to us we would also be crying out for help and who would come to our rescue? Haiti? the US? Its a hard lesson to be learned since we are also at risk of disaster we must forget the past and concentrate on the present.
2. The Dominican Republic should be leading the effort in this and coordinating the relief effort, since we have the geographical location, the resources as far as equipment and we control pretty much the only road into the disaster zone. Still we would not want those funds to be misplaced so they should have UN supervision.
3. This is a time for the DR gov. to evaluate and test their very own Disaster emergency forces.
They should be taking notes and accessing damage then creating processes or contingency plans. They should also try to evaluate how good DR's response team is to an emergency of this magnitude, and try to use this as a benchmark for f
From: United States, New Haven, CT
4. The DR should create a temporary migration protocol, they should accept refuges and create some sort of Base camp for people at or near the border and do mass registration to keep track of the people there. A database could be build keeping biometrical traits on file and a missing person's office should keep the info in case someone is looking for family they can cross reference the database.
5. Can the hatred be so much that we can't settle our differences for a second and recognize that we are all part of the same race? The Human race...
From: United States
IronThinker don't confuse realism with hatred. Of course right now Haitians need as much help as they can get. They didn't cause the natural disaster to happen..they are victims. Aside from that, let's be realistic. What are all these impoverished Haitians going to do to survive for the next decade or two? The Haitian economy has collapsed. Where are these people going to go? Do you believe they are just going to stay put where they are and accept their fate? Me thinks they are going to head next door into the border provinces of RD and populate all of them.
Written by: Atabey, 19 Jan 2010 12:20 PM
From: United States, NYC
mandouafrika,
Sadly we will see the short-sidedness of all this in the not too distant future. Few people are willing to think "out-of-the-box" on issues like this. A sensible consideration of the problems involved would dictate that serious long-term planning and indeed even re-settlement be taken into account. I'm pessimistic it will because few people want to really think though the implications of this disaster in Haiti. The DR will be the worst for it, I'm afraid.
Written by: Atabey, 19 Jan 2010 3:44 PM
From: United States, NYC
A small positive step.
Rich Nations Call for Haiti Debt Relief
By ALAN COWELL
Published: January 19, 2010
PARIS — Broadening the relief effort, the Paris Club of international creditors issued an appeal Tuesday for nations owed money by Haiti to cancel the debts to help reconstruction after the devastating earthquake a week ago.
A statement from the informal grouping, which meets each month in Paris and is composed of major industrialized countries, came as international agencies pressed for the provision of greater security to protect the distribution of aid in Haiti and the supply route leading from the neighboring Dominican Republic.
The Paris Club said that last July its members canceled all their claims on Haiti, at that time totaling $214 million.
Written by: DomRat, 19 Jan 2010 3:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The Turks and Caicos only 36 hours away by tug and barge have the tugs and barges standing by as their construction industry collapsed in the US real estate bubble. There are also many pieces of well maintained, usable equipment parked around the tiny island. A local with ties to this equipment developed a list of about 100 pieces. Daily rates for tandum axel dupm trucks, loader and tractor backhoes with operator at $1,100 to D8's at just under 2,000. 40 pieces of heavy equipment with operators and support staff for 28 days of 12 hour days including transport to and return would have cost less than 2 million. Upper enchelon US Staate Department personel were advised - answered tothe effect that would up stage us and look bad.
Written by: Atabey, 19 Jan 2010 4:23 PM
From: United States, NYC
Stop the presses, "France has issued a stamp in solidarity with the victims in Haiti."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8468211.stm"Underlying the episode is a tangible sense of hurt pride that France is being relegated to a secondary role in a country long regarded as part of its own sphere of influence.
France was colonial master in Haiti up until the famous slave revolt 200 years ago, and French is still an official language there.
Charities have received more than 15m euros (£13m) from private donors - in addition to the 20m euros provided by the government.
"The US aid to Haiti constitutes a new case of 'shock doctrine' - ie taking advantage of a natural calamity to subjugate a disorientated populace to the desires and orders of a financial and industrial oligarchy."
Well, if France doesn't like its secondary status, step-up and pay-up, 22 billion and how about French Guiana? Now that would make a First World statement splash, no? How about did France, you want to
Written by: Atabey, 19 Jan 2010 6:36 PM
From: United States, NYC
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/w....ion-risk-to-3-million-people.htmlHaiti earthquake: medics warn of infection risk to 3 million people
Medics treating survivors of the Haitian earthquake have warned the next big challenge is saving as many as three million hungry, injured and homeless people from deadly infections and diseases.
Mobile hospitals which have sprung up around the Haitian capital Port-au-Prince are already overwhelmed with casualties as the last remaining survivors are pulled from the rubble.
With long waits for treatment, thousands living in close quarters at makeshift camps and severely disrupted water supplies, there is an immediate threat of tetanus and gangrene to those who are injured as well as a risk from measles, meningitis and other infections.
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Iron: 1. If it happened to us we would also be crying out for help and who would come to our rescue? Haiti? the US? Its a hard lesson to be learned since we are also at risk of disaster we must forget the past and concentrate on the present.
The U.S. of course. Why wouldn't we? And are you serious. "Who would come to our rescue?" Don't you live in Connecticut? That was in the U.S. the last time I checked. This statement shows me that you are indeed out of touch with the realities of Quisqueya.
Iron: 2. The Dominican Republic should be leading the effort in this and coordinating the relief effort, since we have the geographical location, the resources as far as equipment and we control pretty much the only road into the disaster zone. Still we would not want those funds to be misplaced so they should have UN supervision.
Quisqueya was the first on the scene. When did you first turn on your TV? Who do you think gave medical aid, security, and food/water to the Haitian gov't?
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Cont'd.....
Iron: 3. This is a time for the DR gov. to evaluate and test their very own Disaster emergency forces.
They should be taking notes and accessing damage then creating processes or contingency plans. They should also try to evaluate how good DR's response team is to an emergency of this magnitude, and try to use this as a benchmark for f
I think Quisqueya has utilized this tragedy to test itself. After all, She did provide evacuation services, ambulances, doctors, food, water, and her hospitals. El pueblo Dominicano helped as well. Collecting what they could to send to the Haiti and its victims. I'm sure this is being utilized as a benchmark to evaluate Quisqueya's readiness.
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Cont'd....
Iron: 4. The DR should create a temporary migration protocol, they should accept refuges and create some sort of Base camp for people at or near the border and do mass registration to keep track of the people there. A database could be build keeping biometrical traits on file and a missing person's office should keep the info in case someone is looking for family they can cross reference the database.
I think I addressed this already in another forum. And many others also have explained why this is a bad idea. The RD cannot support a refugee population. If She attempted it would turn the RD into a refugee state.
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Cont'd....
Iron: 5. Can the hatred be so much that we can't settle our differences for a second and recognize that we are all part of the same race? The Human race...
It's not hate. Its the reality of what the RD, her government, economy, infrastructure and populace can support. It certainly can't support an influx of 200,000, 300,000, 500,000, 1 million, or 1.2 million extra people. Wyclef is calling for the evacuation of 2 million! Even a quarter of that would be the end of Quisqueya as Dominicans know it. How do you think little Franchesca is going to eat with 200,000 to 2 million more people integrated into the population? Again, you are obviously out of touch with the realities of the island if you believe this is doable. When is the last time you were in the RD? Heck....2 million extra people - without jobs - would severely hurt the United States!
From: United States, New Haven, CT
Negro,
Your mind has been closed to any idea from the get go so why try to reinforce my points.
If you don't agree then don't, in the end we'll all see what decision is made, and i'm sure no matter which one is taken you "Nagging Ninnies" will still find flaw.
If your logic and way of seeing things is so omnipotent how come I don't see you all over the news telling us what's the right way to do things?
Its funny and sad to see all these so called "Internet Revolutionaries" making absurd remarks about people they've never met in their lives, that just goes to show you that, you sir are not scholar :).
I wouldn't be surprised if Negro is Lionel trying to get some bearing on his popularity rating.
No country can sustain others but their own citizens but that's why this is called contingency planning
"Everyone is the man, in their own neighborhood"
By the way, CT is lovely this time of year if you ever get out of Guachupita come by I'll buy you a Sam Adam's down by
Written by: Pepe32, 20 Jan 2010 5:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
My goodness just what we needed another afronazi!!
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Que chistoso tu eres...come on, Copper. Did you have to look online to figure out the correct spelling of Guachupita? Again, another example of how out of touch with your own people you are. You didn't address any of my points. You didn't even acknowledge how much of a burden your ideas would be on Quisqueya. Contingency planning? So Haiti suffers a tragedy and La Dominicana is supposed to quadruple its economic and social services capacity overnight so you can feel warm and fuzzy inside? That's like jumping through the hole in your own @$$. If you had any idea of what life is like in Quisqueya right now you wouldn't even suggest integrating Haitians into Dominican society. There are Dominicans living as refugees in Quisqueya! And you want to let more than a million Haitianos into Her borders. Next time you're in Virginia, Santiago, or here in Stuttgart, Germany, look me up. I'll teach you about Quisqueya's history, teach you something about loving your people. Cuidate primo.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Jan 2010 5:52 PM
From: United States, NYC
Well said NegrodeLaBachata.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Jan 2010 1:39 AM
From: United States, NYC
El FMI propone un 'plan Marshall'
Haiti to get a Marshall Plan to rebuild. Great news.
Dominique Strauss-Kahn, el director gerente del Fondo Monetario Internacional (FMI), hizo ayer un llamamiento para poner en marcha un plan Marshall para la reconstrucción de Haití. "Haití, que se ha visto azotado por crisis, el alza de los precios del combustible y la comida, huracanes y ahora el terremoto; necesita un plan de asistencia multilateral para la reconstrucción, algo grande, una especie de plan Marshall", dijo, según la web del organismo.
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/in....elpepuint/20100121elpepiint_5/TesFrom: United States, New Haven, CT
Negro,
Y yo no soy primo suyo por que en mi familia de santos nunca hubiera un tarado como tu.
No one is arguing that DR lacks materials and organization to support a mass migration, and no one here is saying have a Haitian Exodus to the DR. However the reality of the matter is this.
1. It would cost way too much to transfer millions of people to French Guyana since its over seas, what are you going to do just take a bunch of people drop them off in the jungle and say well here you go fend for yourselves, watch out for Tarantulas and poisonous snakes. Here are some materials and instructions rebuild your country within this other one. Ohh wait most of you guys can't read and have no trades? uhmm damn tough luck well we'll drop by in a few years to see how you're doing.
2. Le conviene a RD tener metida la mano en la re-estabilizacion de Haiti, y tu muy bien sabes porque.
4. You keep attacking my views and i'm fine with it you have a right to disagree, but unfortunately your log
From: United States, New Haven, CT
4. You keep attacking my views and i'm fine with it you have a right to disagree, but unfortunately your logic is faulty, it also shows your lack of experience in the human condition.
I'm a citizen of the world my loyalty lies with the idea of truth and equality for everyone not just those who can afford it. I seek enlightenment from everywhere while you sulk at the dark cloud over your head sitting there like penance for who knows what crimes you never reported against your fellow man for fear "de que te quiten tu cuchara"
I will leave you with this
There is a destiny that makes us brothers:
None goes his way alone:
All that we send into the lives of others
Comes back into our own.
I care not what his temples or his creeds,
One thing holds firm and fast
That into his fateful heap of days and deeds
The soul of man Is cast.
" Those who show no compassion towards their brethren shall receive none when their time to be judged comes"
From: Germany, Stuttgart
Wow.... You're a bleeding heart liberal aren't you?
Written by: Pepe32, 21 Jan 2010 3:59 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Negro,this guy is a legend in his own mind!!
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Hey wait a minute. Which country on Hispaniola was I talking about? I'm confused........
How can anyone govern properly with such an imbalance of wealth ? Who would want to lead such a country ?? What can the leaders do without appropriating the assets of the super elite.??
Thats like asking a young beautiful prostitue why she would want to sell her body to a fat old man for 20 bucks . Im sure the president of the poorest nation in the western hemisphere stands to earn a little bit more than the other 99% just for showing up with a tie on .Nobody (especially Uncle Sam) expects him to anything except sit there and be a puppet king until Daddy finally comes home to run the familys affairs the way they should be handled and it looks like big daddy has come home . My question to you is why wouldnt he want the damn job? It beats driving a motoconcho.
Mr. Preval, nor any other leader in haiti or even some world leaders get their press conference broadcast live in American tv, so as you might know this guy has some great influence.
In short, Jean's vision right now is to massively evacuate Haiti's capital 2.5 million people and set them up in tents around the country. According to him, this will facilitate with the cleaning process and the rebuilding of the city. More interesting is that Mr. Jean asked some countries to take thousands of his people, thereby creating a Haitian exodus to relive Haiti of its ills at this point. They will come back to their homeland right after housing is built for them.
He did not mentioned
i think that Haiti and the DR political issues have seen the worst of their days and things are bound to get better. I am happy to see the Haitian president be conciliatory and even humble, kneeling to the goodwill of the DR. I am proud to be Dominican due to the way the country has responded, however, at times I fear that the superiority complex of some will simply grow, blinding them ever more.
Finally, there have been reports that Haiti will be sitting on more than a billion dollars to rebuilt the country about 10 months from today. People are planning on recalling all Haitians to return and work in the construction of their country. This is great for the DR.
I honestly feel bad for the DR because no matter what they do they are in the wrong. I think that DR has done a tremendous job on stepping in and doing what they can to help the Haitian people, however, we must remember that the DR has issues of it's own. Their flag doesn't say DIOS PATRIA Y LIBERTAD for nothing. Haiti must learn to stand on it's own two feet and use this situation to their advantage but not by trying to exploit the help of others....
Again, after the lights and CNN cameras have turned away from all of these well intentioned mother teresas , lets see how many of the 99% of the Haitians that were poor and sick before the quake are doing 5 to 10 years from now as a result of all this charity and what thier social and economic status is ? How the hell is this great for the D.R ? DO you actually believe that the 3 million Haitians tha have fled to the D.R in search of a better life that consists of maybe 1 meal a day instead of no meals a day while living in construction sites are going to give that up to return to thier homeland where they wont even be able to drink from a river or gnaw on a chicken bone? Who is going to care for these people and provide for them in the interim during the rebuilding ?
Moreover, he indicated to me that there is the possibility that Obama ease or eliminate all trading tariffs on haitian products such as, Mangos, textile, rice and other crops that they are able to produce. On top of this, its said that the Haitian government will be allowed to impose 1986 tariffs on a series of imports.
Now, the report about recalling Haitians to come back and work rebuilding their country, only looks to me as directed to those in the DR. think about it, if 500k go back, that is 500k less do deal with. Any number
lets ponder this for a moment ! Haiti has always been in the U.S backyard as well as having always been one of the poorest contries in the world . Why then, does it take an earthquake for all these altruistic Mother Teresas to reach in thier pockets and smile in the cameras when all along they've (the U.S) had the resources to occupy i mean, rebuild and assist the poor and starving Haitians ? Its human nature brother . Its the ''whats in it for me'' clause.
Haiti tests European response
Gavin Hewitt | 10:35 UK time, Monday, 18 January 2010
At every disaster you find emergency teams from Europe. In the Pakistani earthquake I flew in a German helicopter. The Swiss arrived early. I found the same covering the tsunami in Asia. The Italian teams, as always, proved they have some of the best rescue workers in the world.
So again this time in Haiti. There are Welsh firefighters rescuing a two-year old girl. Spanish and French teams have been tearing at the rubble at the Hotel Montana.
I
The Americans control the airport and they are setting up a military operation in Haiti so some of their military planes have landed first. That has infuriated the French. A plane carrying an inflatable hospital from France was diverted. The French Foreign Minister, Bernard Kouchner, complained the airport had become a "US annexe".
Such tensions, in my experience, are inevitable. The lesson of every disaster I have covered is that co-ordinatio
Such tensions, in my experience, are inevitable. The lesson of every disaster I have covered is that co-ordination is best done on the ground. It is not a role for ministers or bureaucrats hundreds or thousands of miles away. It doesn't work like that.
Now the EU's response is complicated by the fact that it is learning to live with new structures. It has a foreign policy chief in Catherine Ashton. She has said that "rebuilding Haiti is now a priority for the EU" There was also, in her public statements, the suggestion that she was "co-ordinating" the different activities of the European Union with the member states. Now there clearly is a role for the EU in planning for the long-term development of Haiti and that will be discussed at a meeting of development ministers today.
But there is a question as to what role the EU should play in coordinating emergency search and rescue and relief operations. Certainly the EU, as an institution, is not essential for rescue work to be ef
But there is a question as to what role the EU should play in coordinating emergency search and rescue and relief operations. Certainly the EU, as an institution, is not essential for rescue work to be effective. Nations have acted decisively and quickly without referring to international institutions. Iceland despatched 35 members of its search and rescue team. Canada has its Sea King helicopters in action. Brazilian rescue workers are in place. The Chinese had people in Port-au-Prince by 0200 on 14 January.
I suspect a dilemma here for the EU. There is a current obsession to be seen as a "player" on the world stage. This need, in part, lay behind the Lisbon Treaty. It is often easy for that desire to translate into wanting to act as if the EU were a state. It isn't. It has no military capacity. Even if the EU's military was under one command it would be hard to match the US with its aircraft-carrier, hospital ship, logistical power and its ability to deploy thousands of troops
I suspect a dilemma here for the EU. There is a current obsession to be seen as a "player" on the world stage. This need, in part, lay behind the Lisbon Treaty. It is often easy for that desire to translate into wanting to act as if the EU were a state. It isn't. It has no military capacity. Even if the EU's military was under one command it would be hard to match the US with its aircraft-carrier, hospital ship, logistical power and its ability to deploy thousands of troops while it is fighting two campaigns overseas. The fact that Europe cannot do that does not make it somehow weak or ineffective, as some have suggested.
The question is more where the EU should best put its energy. The EU may be most effective at coordinating medium and long-term development. Today it is set to announce 100m euros (£88m) in reconstruction aid.
I say have the Europeans concentrate on a long-term solution. And the French Guiana solution appears to me a very plausible one for the long-term
Now we get a true glimpse of world history and a better understanding of how the west was won my friend . Unfortunatly ,this time the rest of the world was not as quick nor slick as WILLY , but this time the slaves were already there ! So please tell me again just how much these countries love the Haitians .
He put so much effort into becoming a regional leader that is ludacris, this guy could be so pathetic a times.
I believe that the U.S. is honest about Haiti this time, i may sound naive, but the politics has been kept in the back burner and trust me that is a good sign.
As far as the DR, i also think that we can only benefit from reestablishing and reinvigorating our relations with Haiti. This will allow us to bring the immigration issue to the table without any pre-conceived notions and distrust between the sides. I know that there are people who are fearful of a new wave of Haitians to the DR, at this point i am not worried, because if it was going to happen, it
That is the first indication that Haiti will continue the way it has alway been... When their own president puts the weight on the international community... Soon enough the IC will tired of the haitian helplessness and will be justified in leaving...
Atabey, the sum that the French got from Haiti is 150 million gold francs, which by today monies will be equal to more than 7 billion dollars.
Mr. Jean proposed your idea, which I posted in details above. He wants certain countries to create temp camps until the country is rebuilt or set camps on the interior of the haiti.
I don't think this event has led Leonel to forget his own house. Truly he's been disinterested from the jump! Driving down the street of my house in Gurabo there are potholes big enough to bury small adults. The RD has its own infrastructure problems. This earthquake and Leonel's relief effort is genuine, but it does serve to also distract the attention of the Dominican people from Quisqueya's own issues. But that's another topic for another day.
With regard to Preval's call for aid to go beyond curing wounds, I think he's right..... It should go beyond and result in an increased presence of the UN. Not that their effective, but there should be some international body put on the ground to work with the Haitian government during rebuilding to do the accounting. I want to see what my taxpayer dollars are being spent on.
We here are taking the brunt of the economic hit on our economy which is weak as well, to go there and help, while the EU is still trying to mobilize in decisive way. SHAME ON THEM.
Good. 7 billion and land would go a long way to helping the people of Haiti. Thanks for the info.
And dominicanheartbeat, how about the Frenchies steppin' up?
The Haitian capital was destroyed, not the entire country. Move the survivors of the 2 million that were estimated to have lived there out into the Haitian countryside. Build tent cities there. Start registering survivors, account for people, start identifying people with skills, people that can help in the rebuilding effort. The UN is at least adept at building refugee camps. It's had plenty of practice in Africa. And I would think it would be easier to move aid from the capital's airport out into the campo with two to three key roads cleared. There's no need to move Haitians out of Haiti. All you do with that course of action is put the burden of care on other country's civil and social systems. Keep the survivors in Haiti, push the aid to them there....in the campo.
The intentions of USA towards Haiti may seen true now but in 6 months from now to me is all back to business as usual.Or should I say the "What's in it for me" policy that has been in place since 1804. I 'm not being pessimist I just feel like I have seen this movie before and especially when promises are coming from a president that promise the Iraq war to end in 1 year and Health care was going nowhere if there wasn't a public option. I hope they are serious now but I'm seeing too many cooks in the kitchen trying to gain from the disaster.
True Dag, to the degree that I bitch about my government and its policys, nobodys enjoys the blessed freedom to open his pie hole more than I . Maybe that makes me a hypocrite , but we still do live in the greatest country on earth my brother . That said , I cant help help thinking that If uncle W. were still in office that the response to the Haitian crisis would be little different than that of Katrina ? You know where Im going with this, but please dont whip me for playing the '' its a black thing'' card . Just as those rich Cubans in Miami helped keep Georgie snug in D.C as well as the embargo in place, do you think that the ''black Haitian vote has something to do with Obamas sense of urgency ? HMMMMMM.
And for the record, my comment is only putting the integrity of our president in question , not the Haitian people .
All we can do is wait and hope.
The DR has been denigrated and made to take the majority " hit " for the Haitian dilemma. If its leadership isn't careful The DR will be devastated with the largest problems in its history. Social unrest could possibly lead to great civil unrest. I truly think that immigration/emigration should be part of the solution to Haiti's dilemma. A hold and wait strategy will only postpone a far greater catastrophe for the island of Hispaniola. Time for the big boys to make things right for Haiti. Will France and the Euros step-up? I'm a pessimist but hope I'm proven wrong.
So all in all Leonel has done a good job in bringing people together ..and exactly who chairs the committee in the longer term is up to those countries participating but I imagine they will appoint a CEO for the job.
The Haitian dilemma is essentially the case of a nation and state that have never achieved balance, and the "balancing acts" have entered into a state of total collapse with this devastating event. Drastic events call for drastic measures sometimes, and I think this is one of those cases. Think out of the box, as they say. If several countries take in say 25K families, and the Big Powers institute revenue streams to allow these people to be able to set-up their lively hoods in distant and not so distant lands a great reprieve will the reconstruction effort gain. Plus it's not like the French have no land to offer the Haitian people. French Guiana is one place among several that could be considered.
I hear you on the West stepping up. However, you don't think some of this fallout should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the Haitians? I mean really..... Haiti has been propped up for decades by international dollars. Free loot. 3 billion from the U.S. in the past 15 years. Billions more from other donors. You're telling me a nation the size of Maryland can't build something with that? There should have been an effective government in place. There should have been pre-positioned emergency stockpiles. There should have been first responders (zero in the capital). There should have been adequate hospitals. There should be adequate police and security forces (not drug gangs having free reign). There should have been professionals brought in to train a civil service.
C'mon....the Haitian government was asleep at the wheel. They deserve some of this blame. I don't expect Puerto Principe to be paradise, but it should have been better postured with the influx of dollars
Hey dad , are they gone yet ? No son, they are still here protecting our oil supply so the big bad osamas dont steal it .Go back to bed now .
The Japanese and the Germans would need to be major players in the reconstruction effort too. Maybe not committee members, but as the worlds two greatest engineering nations I think their inputs would be of great use. Those two nations both have excellent infrastructures.
Sending Haitians outside of Haiti is a slippery slope. The first thing folks are going to say is....."Well, the RD is next door. Too easy." The RD cannot handle an influx of refugees....of any number. That aside, you start sending droves of Haitians to other countries and they will NEVER return. Why? Because of the survivors....let's just call it 1.5 million until we get accurate numbers......having survived this tragedy and having nothing.....leaving that nothing for a better world, establishing new lives, have children, attain some normalcy, you say return.....you think folks will be lining up to get back to the hell they left? It won't matter that the capital is rebuilt and things are seemingly better. All they remember is hell, and you're asking them to return. That free ride out of Haiti is a Godsend. Not something anyone would easily relinquish.
It also appears that some on this island understand that we are all in this together. In truth it could have been the DR instead of Haiti and in that context you are the same. The propblems that effect Haiti effect the DR; the problem is the same, "government for the benefit of a few."
You can fix that. I am a foreigner would not if I could attempt to fix the problem for the both of you. You need fix it.
Look I understand that what I propose is a far-far stretch for many people, but if you consider that few over populated areas have ever to my knowledge been put on sustainability without some form of mass exist from the concentrated areas, you'll have to give me at least some props for thinking outside the box. Just to offer as a comparison take a look at the history of another overpopulated Caribbean island, Puerto Rico circa 1900. When the USA kicked out the Spaniards and established their hegemony on the island one of the first observations was the overpopulated nature of the conquest. What to do? Some briefly considered shipping some Puerto Ricans to the far-less populated DR to the west. Very few did actually make the journey and so other considerations were put into the mix, including during the post-WWII years massive emigration to the US, especially New York City. Thus by 2010 there are as many descendants of Puertoricans living in the USA
And F the French
The poster who suggested that people be evacuated is more on point with what will have to be done.
There's no Haiti without Port-au-prince and I can't imagine the country side being able to sustain millions. Other cities like Cap-Haitien already have large populations. Gonaives has yet to recover from the hurricanes. Options are limited.
The best case scenario is what one poster suggested is a successful establishment of tent cities, but where? The country's terrain is rough and roads are not plentiful to carry workers needed to rebuild.
The more I write, the more I see the looming disaster. It will be very difficult to rebuild with the distraction of millions of extremely poor people.
If I were Dominican , I would support the evacuation of some people to wealthier and more spacious countries 200%.
If the country is ever rebuilt to satisfactory conditions, people will return. The memories of the Caribbean beauty and tranquility is etched in our minds and can never be forgotten.
...Then again, I may be wrong.
As Haitians lurch destitute in the rubble, and as governments, churches, and NGOs do the best they can to bring succor to Haiti's hell, a vivid solution to the country's needs presents itself, one so obvious and irrefutable—so resonantly just—that it must be advocated with the greatest of energy: France must repay its colonialist debt to Haiti by paying for much of the island country’s reconstruction.
Haiti's chronic impoverishment began at its birth in 1804, when, having overthrown its French rulers in a bloody, 12-year slave revolt, the newborn nation was subjected to crippling blockades and embargoes. This economic strangulation continued until 1825, when France offered to lift embargoes and recognize the Haitian Republic if the latter would pay restitution to France—for loss of property in Haiti, including slaves—of 150 million gold francs
In this era of multibillion-dollar bailouts of private banking institutions, $22 billion should scarcely raise a Gallic eyebrow. But to Haiti, the sum would be a godsend.
Your views make much sense to me. Haiti is still a big expanse, at least big enough to accommodate Port-au-Prince without saturating. Yes, I see no point in moving people out of country-what purpose exactly would that accomplish?
Haitians already proved once before that they could rebel and win, and I am sure they could do it once more. I don't believe extricating people would lead to any good solutions. Haitians are the only ones who clearly understand their situation and, as such, they are the only ones empowered to change it. They can only do that by staying at home and demanding and bringing about change. Anything else would only turn a proud and historically significant people into a welfare state; none of us wishes that.
MJEV.
I only have one question about our beloved gringos moving next door
Are they going to be paying for this so called reconstruction thing in dollars or Gourdes?
The money involved is not a sum that will give sleepless nights to Christine Lagarde (France's finance minister) or Bernard Kouchner (its foreign minister) or President Nicolas Sarkozy. In this era of multibillion-dollar bailouts of private banking institutions, $22 billion should scarcely raise a Gallic eyebrow.
More than that, however, this is money that is Haiti's own. As Haitians lie prostrate, buried under the rubble of their nation, France must do the moral thing, the just thing, the civilized thing: France must write Haiti a reparations check for $22 billion.
Tunku Varadarajan is a national affairs correspondent and writer at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a research fellow at Stanford’s Hoover Institution and a professor at NYU’s Stern Business School. (Follow him on Twitter here.)
22 billion would go a long way to resolving the Haitian situation. Germany has had to pay billions in restitution and reparations for the devastations it caused to the Jewish people and others during its hate filled delusions for World Control. I say France pay-up. It's about Time.
Count me in as one of your supporters. You make a lot of sense to me.
MJEV.
To those of you proposing evacuating thousands of Haitian families to other countries: do you really think for one minute that they will repatriate to Haiti? If you do, then you must be levitating and breathing some oxygen-depleted air.
If you take people out of the problem, then you are only guaranteeing problem perpetuity. Only Haitians can solve this problem, and no matte how much money outside world pours in, it will never be resolved until they themselves resolve to correct it. Period.
Look, US is effectively bankrupt, and no matter how well-intentioned we might be, we are financially unable to undertake burden some of you propose. We are closing schools and hospitals, and many of my acquaintances are losing their jobs....we are not the rich people we used to be. Haiti needs to be taught how to fish, then it must go out and catch fish and feed itself. They must not be entirely dependent on handouts from outside world.
MJEV.
What If Haiti Can't Be Saved?
by Reihan Salam
Food and relief and American know-how may not be enough for Haiti. We may need to let its residents leave.
After the devastating earthquake that has leveled Port-au-Prince and led to the deaths of tens of thousands, the Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of offering temporary protected status to illegal immigrants from Haiti. The logic behind the decision is compelling. However strongly one might object to the fact that well over 100,000 Haitians are living illegally in the United States, deporting them now would be worse than cruel. Plagued by violence and poverty for most of its history, Haiti has been brought to the edge of anarchy. Sending Haitian workers home isn't exactly a death sentence. But it is troublingly close.
Temporary protected status is meant to last 18 months, during which time we can hope that some semblance of order will be restored. Even then, however, it's not clear that the Haitians who've been given a reprieve will be able to find decent jobs at home, let alone the kind of jobs that will allow them to support large extended families. Mark Schneider and Bernice Robertson of the International Crisis Group have argued that recovering from the earthquake will take at least a decade of intense effort. Somehow, Haitians living in the U S, and the over 9 million Haitians at home forced to endure lawless chaos before and after the earthquake, will have to find a more lasting solution.
Yet there are miserable corners of the world where cameras and correspondents are few and far between, and Haiti has been one of them for at least the past 15 years. Many have already said that America's callous indifference to Haiti's slow-motion collapse over this long and painful period is a national embarrassment. Given the deep problems that Haiti faces, however, it's not clear what the U S could have done that would have proven more effective than Bill Clinton's 1994 humanitarian intervention, which, like so many armed interventions, ended in failure and retreat.
In 2008, economists Michael Clemens and Lant Pritchett, both affiliated with the highly innovative Center for Global Development, published "Income per Natural: Measuring Development as if People Mattered More Than Places." Rather than measure a country's GDP per resident, they devised a new statistic called income per natural, "the mean annual income of persons born in a given country," including migrants who've left their native country in search of economic opportunity. So while the American-born Johnny Depp doesn't contribute to U.S. GDP per resident while residing in France, he does bump up its income per natural.
There are literally dozens of countries across the world that are what Pritchett, in his provocative book Let Their People Come, calls "zombies." In the Old West, cities abandoned when the local gold mine dried up were called "ghost towns." Zombies are essentially ghost towns that you can never leave.
Reihan Salam is a fellow at the New America Foundation and the co-author of Grand New Party.
Some food for thought. The implications for DR are dire if Haiti can't get back and achieve something it hasn't in its history: a sustainable Nation-State position.
This is the one time I want you guys to look up "HAARP Project."
I know you mean well, when you ask for France to give the haitian a state in French Guiana, which you are right about it population it about 250,000
But here is a problem with that, French Guiana is where Europe and France have it Space explorarion site,
Second, French Guiana is Rich with forest all around, the Amazon in Brasil, and Venezuela,,,sending haitian there is like sending terminate to destroy the lung of the planet, then you will be greating a tragedy for the human specie as a whole, they will deforest the French Guiana and them will more likely step into Brasil and do the same.
Best choice is to send them to SENEGAL, the president already offer it to haitian and it is already a dry land just like they are use to.
Now Haitians are insects!
Nothing like kicking people when they are down so you can feel superior!
¡Que Dios te perdone y te cure de esa enfermedad mi hermano!
Ohh shit,,,,you serius
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/haarp.html
New Orleans is the perfect example of how long reconstructions can take. It's been about 5 years since Katrina and a large portion New Orleans remains ruins. This a city in the supposedly richest nation on planet that has hundreds of billions of dollars at it's disposal. Compare that to Haiti which is one of the poorest and you will see that it not realistic to rebuild Haiti. Haitians need to start a fresh on a greener pasture. Here is the other problem. While Haiti is in reconstruction mode which will take a decade or more to complete if ever...homeless impoverished Haitians are going to flood into the DR by the millions. They have nothing to lose at this point and nothing to look forward to in Haiti. The Dominican Republic is going to become the South Africa of the Carribean. The DR of the future is going to make Jamaica and Trinidad look like paradise. Dominicans on the island are f-ked.
I guess you don't think Haiti is already a welfare state...
You all can twist your minds in a PC knot ,but the main problem in the nation formerly known as Haiti is HAITIANS .You can pump all the billions and trillions into it but the main resource of a nation is its people and in that respect Haiti is a virtual desert. The Guyana and Senegal propositions are probably the best bet for the inhabitants of the western part of Hispaniola especially the Guyana option because they would be under French tutelage and support .The small group of progressive thinking Haitians could be incorporated into DR and we would have one island .
If any company or enterprise had as many absolute failures as Haiti has had it would have been closed down a long time ago!
I've stated that French Guiana and Senegal and any other country willing to offer Haitians an opportunity to reconstruct their lives is in the cards. And I agree with Mandouafrica that financial rewards should grease the palms of those willing to allow Haitians immigrate to their lands. The international community will be tied up in Haiti for decades; I recently read a piece pointing out how in the most promising of cases a 10 year duration is but the first phase in the recovery act, think about that 10 years! Haitians need options and having the international community on board for a transfer of population into largely unpopulated French Guiana is an excellent idea the more I think about it. It should be done gradually, with planning and construction beginning this year and getting the go-ahead from the various international financial centers, The World Bank, The Club of Paris, etc. The funding can happen, as this will easily be absorbed into the debt
structures of the various Big National Economies. France has an economy of 2.8 trillion and can easily manage to put 22 billion into its long-term debt payment scheme. As I've told others on this site, the great bail-outs have cost truly much more financially, ING, Citi, the Auto Industry, etc. Here we're talking about a nation of 10 million. And as for a potential problem with de-forestation, get real, the reason why Haitians cut down their forest is directly related to what fuel they use for cooking. In French Guiana the planning stages will take care to introduce gas or electrical supplies to meet their cooking needs. I'm truly amazed that more people would not take this choice, if offered to them. In fact, there's a nice piece of writing I read yesterday on the greater value of immigrants over those left behind in what amounts to open prison zones. If Haitians don't have other options on the table, future Haiti will resemble to a far greater degree that open prison.
1. If it happened to us we would also be crying out for help and who would come to our rescue? Haiti? the US? Its a hard lesson to be learned since we are also at risk of disaster we must forget the past and concentrate on the present.
2. The Dominican Republic should be leading the effort in this and coordinating the relief effort, since we have the geographical location, the resources as far as equipment and we control pretty much the only road into the disaster zone. Still we would not want those funds to be misplaced so they should have UN supervision.
3. This is a time for the DR gov. to evaluate and test their very own Disaster emergency forces.
They should be taking notes and accessing damage then creating processes or contingency plans. They should also try to evaluate how good DR's response team is to an emergency of this magnitude, and try to use this as a benchmark for f
4. The DR should create a temporary migration protocol, they should accept refuges and create some sort of Base camp for people at or near the border and do mass registration to keep track of the people there. A database could be build keeping biometrical traits on file and a missing person's office should keep the info in case someone is looking for family they can cross reference the database.
5. Can the hatred be so much that we can't settle our differences for a second and recognize that we are all part of the same race? The Human race...
Sadly we will see the short-sidedness of all this in the not too distant future. Few people are willing to think "out-of-the-box" on issues like this. A sensible consideration of the problems involved would dictate that serious long-term planning and indeed even re-settlement be taken into account. I'm pessimistic it will because few people want to really think though the implications of this disaster in Haiti. The DR will be the worst for it, I'm afraid.
Rich Nations Call for Haiti Debt Relief
By ALAN COWELL
Published: January 19, 2010
PARIS — Broadening the relief effort, the Paris Club of international creditors issued an appeal Tuesday for nations owed money by Haiti to cancel the debts to help reconstruction after the devastating earthquake a week ago.
A statement from the informal grouping, which meets each month in Paris and is composed of major industrialized countries, came as international agencies pressed for the provision of greater security to protect the distribution of aid in Haiti and the supply route leading from the neighboring Dominican Republic.
The Paris Club said that last July its members canceled all their claims on Haiti, at that time totaling $214 million.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8468211.stm
"Underlying the episode is a tangible sense of hurt pride that France is being relegated to a secondary role in a country long regarded as part of its own sphere of influence.
France was colonial master in Haiti up until the famous slave revolt 200 years ago, and French is still an official language there.
Charities have received more than 15m euros (£13m) from private donors - in addition to the 20m euros provided by the government.
"The US aid to Haiti constitutes a new case of 'shock doctrine' - ie taking advantage of a natural calamity to subjugate a disorientated populace to the desires and orders of a financial and industrial oligarchy."
Well, if France doesn't like its secondary status, step-up and pay-up, 22 billion and how about French Guiana? Now that would make a First World statement splash, no? How about did France, you want to
Haiti earthquake: medics warn of infection risk to 3 million people
Medics treating survivors of the Haitian earthquake have warned the next big challenge is saving as many as three million hungry, injured and homeless people from deadly infections and diseases.
Mobile hospitals which have sprung up around the Haitian capital Port-au-Prince are already overwhelmed with casualties as the last remaining survivors are pulled from the rubble.
With long waits for treatment, thousands living in close quarters at makeshift camps and severely disrupted water supplies, there is an immediate threat of tetanus and gangrene to those who are injured as well as a risk from measles, meningitis and other infections.
The U.S. of course. Why wouldn't we? And are you serious. "Who would come to our rescue?" Don't you live in Connecticut? That was in the U.S. the last time I checked. This statement shows me that you are indeed out of touch with the realities of Quisqueya.
Iron: 2. The Dominican Republic should be leading the effort in this and coordinating the relief effort, since we have the geographical location, the resources as far as equipment and we control pretty much the only road into the disaster zone. Still we would not want those funds to be misplaced so they should have UN supervision.
Quisqueya was the first on the scene. When did you first turn on your TV? Who do you think gave medical aid, security, and food/water to the Haitian gov't?
Iron: 3. This is a time for the DR gov. to evaluate and test their very own Disaster emergency forces.
They should be taking notes and accessing damage then creating processes or contingency plans. They should also try to evaluate how good DR's response team is to an emergency of this magnitude, and try to use this as a benchmark for f
I think Quisqueya has utilized this tragedy to test itself. After all, She did provide evacuation services, ambulances, doctors, food, water, and her hospitals. El pueblo Dominicano helped as well. Collecting what they could to send to the Haiti and its victims. I'm sure this is being utilized as a benchmark to evaluate Quisqueya's readiness.
Iron: 4. The DR should create a temporary migration protocol, they should accept refuges and create some sort of Base camp for people at or near the border and do mass registration to keep track of the people there. A database could be build keeping biometrical traits on file and a missing person's office should keep the info in case someone is looking for family they can cross reference the database.
I think I addressed this already in another forum. And many others also have explained why this is a bad idea. The RD cannot support a refugee population. If She attempted it would turn the RD into a refugee state.
Iron: 5. Can the hatred be so much that we can't settle our differences for a second and recognize that we are all part of the same race? The Human race...
It's not hate. Its the reality of what the RD, her government, economy, infrastructure and populace can support. It certainly can't support an influx of 200,000, 300,000, 500,000, 1 million, or 1.2 million extra people. Wyclef is calling for the evacuation of 2 million! Even a quarter of that would be the end of Quisqueya as Dominicans know it. How do you think little Franchesca is going to eat with 200,000 to 2 million more people integrated into the population? Again, you are obviously out of touch with the realities of the island if you believe this is doable. When is the last time you were in the RD? Heck....2 million extra people - without jobs - would severely hurt the United States!
Your mind has been closed to any idea from the get go so why try to reinforce my points.
If you don't agree then don't, in the end we'll all see what decision is made, and i'm sure no matter which one is taken you "Nagging Ninnies" will still find flaw.
If your logic and way of seeing things is so omnipotent how come I don't see you all over the news telling us what's the right way to do things?
Its funny and sad to see all these so called "Internet Revolutionaries" making absurd remarks about people they've never met in their lives, that just goes to show you that, you sir are not scholar :).
I wouldn't be surprised if Negro is Lionel trying to get some bearing on his popularity rating.
No country can sustain others but their own citizens but that's why this is called contingency planning
"Everyone is the man, in their own neighborhood"
By the way, CT is lovely this time of year if you ever get out of Guachupita come by I'll buy you a Sam Adam's down by
Haiti to get a Marshall Plan to rebuild. Great news.
Dominique Strauss-Kahn, el director gerente del Fondo Monetario Internacional (FMI), hizo ayer un llamamiento para poner en marcha un plan Marshall para la reconstrucción de Haití. "Haití, que se ha visto azotado por crisis, el alza de los precios del combustible y la comida, huracanes y ahora el terremoto; necesita un plan de asistencia multilateral para la reconstrucción, algo grande, una especie de plan Marshall", dijo, según la web del organismo.
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/in....elpepuint/20100121elpepiint_5/Tes
Y yo no soy primo suyo por que en mi familia de santos nunca hubiera un tarado como tu.
No one is arguing that DR lacks materials and organization to support a mass migration, and no one here is saying have a Haitian Exodus to the DR. However the reality of the matter is this.
1. It would cost way too much to transfer millions of people to French Guyana since its over seas, what are you going to do just take a bunch of people drop them off in the jungle and say well here you go fend for yourselves, watch out for Tarantulas and poisonous snakes. Here are some materials and instructions rebuild your country within this other one. Ohh wait most of you guys can't read and have no trades? uhmm damn tough luck well we'll drop by in a few years to see how you're doing.
2. Le conviene a RD tener metida la mano en la re-estabilizacion de Haiti, y tu muy bien sabes porque.
4. You keep attacking my views and i'm fine with it you have a right to disagree, but unfortunately your log
4. You keep attacking my views and i'm fine with it you have a right to disagree, but unfortunately your logic is faulty, it also shows your lack of experience in the human condition.
I'm a citizen of the world my loyalty lies with the idea of truth and equality for everyone not just those who can afford it. I seek enlightenment from everywhere while you sulk at the dark cloud over your head sitting there like penance for who knows what crimes you never reported against your fellow man for fear "de que te quiten tu cuchara"
I will leave you with this
There is a destiny that makes us brothers:
None goes his way alone:
All that we send into the lives of others
Comes back into our own.
I care not what his temples or his creeds,
One thing holds firm and fast
That into his fateful heap of days and deeds
The soul of man Is cast.
" Those who show no compassion towards their brethren shall receive none when their time to be judged comes"